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View Full Version : Will Venus and Serena EVER play at Indian Wells again?


TeeRexx
Mar 14th, 2002, 11:26 PM
So far both VENUS and SERENA have kept to their non public but well known vow not to play at Indian Wells after VENUS and Richard had racial slurs yelled at them and SERENA was unjustly pummeled with booing and catcalls from an ubruly mob during her victorious final over Clijsters.

http://www.msnbc.com/modules/sports/williams_sisters/images/tennisapp_groundstrokes_venus.jpg

I believe that there may be a 50/50 chance of SERENA competing in 2003, but VENUS is more likely to wait 2-3 more years before giving in to the whining and pressure from IMG, the WTA and IW tournament board members.


http://www.msnbc.com/modules/sports/williams_sisters/images/tennisapp_surface_serena.jpg

However, there is a very good chance that the desert event will never see VENUS compete in their tournament because she is very close to her family and I do not belive that she will easily forgive or forget a wrong that was done to those that she loves.

Bright Red
Mar 14th, 2002, 11:46 PM
There are plenty of other tournaments out there. I can see them avoiding it for as long as they want. I hope they play next year, though. I think that the Williams' missing one year is a fair and adequate response to what happened last year. To keep avoiding it would be going overboard--especially since they are hurting some of the fans who live there.

Getting booed isn't like what happened to Seles in Germany. I can understand why she would never play there again.

CanadianBoy21
Mar 14th, 2002, 11:47 PM
Hopefully they'll never play that tournament again.

That will teach people not to be so f*c*i*g disrespectful to a lady.
Especially if it's a 19 year old whose fault isn't anyways.

I am soooooooooo glad the tournament is doing soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad :bounce:


U get what u deserve.

A4
Mar 14th, 2002, 11:55 PM
With all due respect, I don't think there were racial slurs hurled at them. Most people like that are cowards at heart and will think twice about hurling racial abuse at big menacing Richard.

mishar
Mar 15th, 2002, 12:01 AM
I certainly understand why Venus and Serena didn't go to Indian Wells, and why they might not ever go there again. Tennis is an individual sport and I don't think anyone is obligated to play anywhere in particular.

However, it is a shame for them, because it is their favorite surface, and they lose an opportunity to win a lot of points and prize money.
Also it's a bit sad because I figure there were two kinds of people at Indian Wells last year:
-- those who booed. They are happy if Venus and Serena never show up again, because they have an irrational hatred of the Williams sisters.
--- those who didn't boo. They might be fans of Venus and Serena, and they will be robbed of the chance to see V&S

So unfortunately you're giving the worst people what they wanted, and denying your fans.

But if they're uncomfortable, there's no reason they should play.

I hope Serena at least plays in 2003. I'll bet she gets a warm reception from the crowd.

Celeste
Mar 15th, 2002, 12:19 AM
Well, Venus and Serena are getting their revenge on Indian Wells, whether they wanted it or not. While I wasn't there and can't verify the racial slurs, the crowd's booing of Serena, usually a good spirited player who had won there before, was pretty awful. Serena ought to stick it to them and never return. The crowd reaps what it sowes. They have a depleted draw now. I hope they're happy now.

I thought Serena was so classy last year. She won anyway, and acted nicely after it all. If I was Serena, after I won, I would have given the crowd the bird with a scream of "FUCK YOU" and left before the trophy ceremony!

Celeste
Mar 15th, 2002, 12:27 AM
Oops, I avoided the question! :rolleyes: Who knows, I think before last year's final, this tournament meant a lot to Serena. It was her first big tournament win, came right after Paris Indoor, she tossed Davenport in the second round, then in a come from behinf victory, beat Steffi in the final. It was for sure Serena's "arrival." Whether last year's final has wrecked that feeling for Serena permanently, I don't know.

So, Serena, maybe. Venus, not so sure.:wavey:

Bright Red
Mar 15th, 2002, 12:28 AM
To add to your list of people, mishar. There were probably some people who booed not because they hate the Sisters, but because they were upset by the last minute withdrawal.

Celeste
Mar 15th, 2002, 12:34 AM
But why would they pin that on Serena and boo her in the final? Venus withdrew at the last minute, not Serena. And that match-fixing stuff. Even if true, wouldn't they have just played and Serena won. "Match-fixing" isn't pulling out at the last minute. If Richard really dictates who wins, etc., then Serena would have won after them playing the match. And it would have been credible, even if fixed. Venus played terrible against Elena the day before. I saw the match. The score notwithstanding, Venus looked terrible, really awful. And Serena the same day dismantled Davenport like I've never seen a match before. Even a half-baked Davenport would have made a better showing if it wasn't for Serena's superior play! Total domination. It was Davenport's worst loss in almost 10 years.

Those finks at Indian Wells thought it was so cool to boo them. Well, now they're paying the price!

Bright Red
Mar 15th, 2002, 12:42 AM
I agree that some people booed because they thought the match was fixed. I just think that in the beginning a lot of people booed for various reasons. Those who were simply disappointed quit booing after the match had started. Others, including some who may have felt it was a match-fix in addition to the true haters, continued to boo even after the match had started.

tennischick
Mar 15th, 2002, 12:44 AM
serena said she would never play charleston (??) again bec of the confederate flag. that was last year. this year she is playing. all we can say for now is that they are not playing Indian Wells this year. i won't be surprised if they play next year, having skipped it once to make their point. besides both sisters know the value of a buck. why miss a tourny if u don't have to?

Infiniti2001
Mar 15th, 2002, 12:56 AM
Tennis is their job , so I can understand if they never played there again... I mean, would you continue to work where you were/are treated badly?? As to those who say that it was about match fixing, Serena would have gained more had Venus actually stepped on the court... Why would she deprive Serena of her quality points??? Food for thought :P

Serena y Monica
Mar 15th, 2002, 01:32 AM
Tennis chick

You are a liar. That's not what Serena said.

A4

Why is Richard menacing.

Volcana
Mar 15th, 2002, 03:18 AM
I'm sure they'll play again one day. Winning this tournament pays well. And Venus in an interview actually said she had a lot of fond memories of the place. 2003 may be too soon, but one of them will be around in 2004.

Adrian
Mar 15th, 2002, 03:27 AM
One should be asking the question, that after the mess THEY made last year, would they be welcome back?. Are they missed?. Record Crowds seem to indicate no one but there fans actually missed them at this tournament.

Cybelle Darkholme
Mar 15th, 2002, 03:34 AM
You would be wrong to think that those executives at espn and pacificlife didn't miss the williams sisters, jennifer, amelie and lindsay. Maybe you didn't miss them because you're stictly a player fan and not a tennis fan.

I missed them and still thought this tournament was fun and exciting despite that no contest semifinal of monicas.

also serena did nothing last year, yet there you go adding her into drama that she doesn't belong in, just like those ignorant people who booed. Also maybe you just don't understand what tendenitis is and how it can flare up. If venus was suffering I think she should have said something long before she did, poor judgement was her only mistake in my opinion. She was hoping she would be able to play, she was not. end of story. hopefully next time she will alert people more in advance.

That crowd was wrong now matter who u look at it. Sure booing when the match didn't come off and because you were disappointed is extreme but understandable, but what happend during the final is not excusable.

Dawn Marie
Mar 15th, 2002, 05:40 AM
Celeste you hit the nail on the head with your nice posts!!:)

I too think alot of the Indian Wells booing was due to Serena's killing of Davenport... The crowd favorite. Not all but SOME of it did. No matter how you look at it.. SERENA did not deserve to be booed period. The crowd was ticked off at her dismantling of Davenport. I agree with your post 100% Celeste!!

Nicely written:)

TeeRexx
Mar 15th, 2002, 06:18 AM
There will always be at least ONE idiot who continues to be the consumat Williams basher and does so again this thread. :mad:

The facts still remain:

1. VENUS has a chronic case of tendonitis that was verified by the best doctors in the field and paid for by the WTA after VENUS missed the tour championships.

2. SERENA did nothing but play well in every match that she played.

3. Richard would not have gotten so upset at particular people if they had just booed along with the other idiots, he knows what a racial slur is and stated that for a fact and this was never denied by VENUS.

There is a general negative aspect for the Williams when they play in the U.S. as they are never the crowd favorite and a good percentage seems to come to see either of them lose, especially VENUS, as opposed to wanting to see two future Hall of Famers play great tennis.

There will be pressure put on VENUS and SERENA to play by the parties that I mentioned in my opening post as well as the broadcast media.
SERENA may appear in a couple of years, as for VENUS, who knows.

Williams Rulez
Mar 15th, 2002, 06:23 AM
You go Celeste!! You've the nail on the head! :D :kiss:

A4
Mar 15th, 2002, 06:35 AM
Serena y Monica. You caught me smiling here with your question. Well, Richard is certainly big. You mess round with him, he'll mess you up. I just think cowards would think twice before getting on the wrong side of him. Pretty intimidating presence especially for anyone a few feet away looking to get him angry.

I agree with almost everyone here with regards to the tournament and the booing. Most especially Celeste. Agree with Tee too except on the racial slur bit. Whilst Venus never denied it, she never confirmed it either. I think I'll be more comfortable with saying Richard heard racial slurs cast at his family, as opposed to it being presented as a fact, simply because Richard says so.

the_ancyent_marinere
Mar 15th, 2002, 06:47 AM
I do not think neither Venus nor Serena will profit from being labeled as vicitims of what happened a year ago.

They can play the tournament they like without having to justify or critisize any of them.

What happened has happened and cannot be undone; everybody has sometime in life been more or less unjustly treated, so get over it!

As for the other stars not being at IW; perhaps it is just too close to KB...

Oooh, I cannot believe I still contribute to these pointless threads:o

Kart
Mar 15th, 2002, 09:34 AM
Frankly if I were them I would never go back.

That said, it's a shame for the tournament to lose such talent, so it would be nice if they decided to return.

TeeRexx
Mar 15th, 2002, 09:42 AM
A4 - Richard is not going to get in some slug fest with some bigot on international TV.

Also, being Black and coming from the South, racial slurs are not something that he would take lightly or lie about.

VENUS will never get in a discussion regarding this issue. He non show this year speaks volumes.

essielewis
Mar 15th, 2002, 10:34 AM
There is a general negative aspect for the Williams when they play in the U.S. as they are never the crowd favorite and a good percentage seems to come to see either of them lose, especially VENUS, as opposed to wanting to see two future Hall of Famers play great tennis.

I don't agree with you at all on this, TR. I think Venus and Serena are both crowd favorites in America and the rest of the world. There is no negativity towards them and I don't think they think there is. These young women fill the stands and get enormous television ratings. All those people aren't just there to see them lose a match.

On the other hand, I sincerely hope Venus and Serena stay away from Indian Wells for the rest of their careers. And, I think they will. They were both deeply hurt by what happen last year and there are far too many tournaments for them to play and gather the necessary points. Indian Wells is totally unimportant. So what if ESPN gets upset with the low ratings? So what if the stands are half empty (even though the tourament director is insisting that they have "record" crowds). Venus and Serena should stay away.

And, another thing . . . why aren't people upset that Jennifer Capriati isn't there? She hasn't even given a reason for not showing up but I don't see the media outraged that she didn't play. If Jennifer had played Indian Wells she probably would have won and regained the #1 position. Why isn't that brought up when the media and fans slam the Williams sisters?

Of course, Jennifer, Venus and Serena all have a right to play wherever and whenever they want to play and I hope they all continue to ignore Indian Wells.:)

joe
Mar 15th, 2002, 01:17 PM
Williams sisters: No regrets about skipping Indian Wells

March 12, 2002


DELRAY BEACH, Fla. (AP) -- Venus and Serena Williams have no regrets about skipping this week's Pacific Life Open in Indian Wells, Calif., saying the verbal abuse they took last year would have made it impossible for them to enjoy playing there.

The family was booed during last year's tournament after Venus made a late withdrawal with an injury from a semifinal match against Serena, who beat Kim Clijsters in the final.

``When we play tennis we like to have fun,'' Serena said Tuesday.

``We go places we enjoy playing. We're entertainers and we entertain the crowd. If we can't entertain then our job is over, and I don't think we were doing a great job entertaining them last year.''

Venus, who just spent more than two months out of the country to attain the world No. 1 ranking, is finding it relaxing to be at home.

``Mentally, I was ready to be away so long,'' Venus said. ``But, after a while, physically I was kind of broken. I was starting to be injured because I was playing too much. After a while you start pulling muscles, they're nothing serious but they keep you from playing well.''

The sisters said they would be interested in playing in this year's Federation Cup. Serena has already spoken with U.S. captain Billie Jean King about the April 27-28 competition.

``We like the format now that it's back to the old (knockout draw) format,'' Serena said. ``I talked to Billie Jean about who we're going to play, the Austrians, and that it's going to be on clay. It depends on my scheduling.''

vw43
Mar 15th, 2002, 02:28 PM
essie:

jen doesn't have to play Indian Wells to take back her #1 ranking. I read here on the messageboard that she will regain the #1 ranking on monday because venus chose to skip IW and is losing points in doing so.

i don't think the media is outraged that Venus and Serena chose not to play, i think most people understand why they've made their choices. i disagree to a certain extent but understand. i think jen chose to not play because she didn't need to and also to rest up for her next slam win...the good ol French...;)

Bright Red
Mar 15th, 2002, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by vw43
i think jen chose to not play because she didn't need to and also to rest up for her next slam win...the good ol French...;)

I think the Williams will have something to say about this, vw;)

But I agree that the media doesn't seem outraged or negative toward their decision--nor should they be outraged. It is afterall their choice.

vw43
Mar 15th, 2002, 02:43 PM
bright red:

i'm sure the Williams will have much to say about it..lol. i would think venus would really want to show the naysayers that she can kick butt on clay as well. if one of the sisters has to beat, the queen (ms. capriati) then i would rather it be serena. she could use a slam and i wouldn't begrudge her of it. venus can't win everything...;)

sartrista7
Mar 15th, 2002, 02:47 PM
Whether Venus and Serena *should* play Indian Wells again isn't really up to us. If they feel that the crowd was so disgraceful last year that they never want to set foot in the place again, they have a point. If they feel that a 1-year boycott has served their purpose sufficiently, that would be good too. Personally, I think they'll both be back next year (if not, neither will turn up; I don't see either V or S going it alone here). And if I was in their position, I'd show up too. I don't think there'll be a recurrence of the booing episode - it struck me as a one-off knee-jerk reaction to an unfortunate situation. I mean, both sisters had played many previous matches there without a hint of hostility, so it doesn't appear that all, or even most, of the Indian Wells crowd are bigots.

Remember, Indian Wells '97 was Venus' coming-out party on Tour: her first good result, her first win over a top 10 player. She has good memories of the place to balance the bad memories.

All4Williams
Mar 15th, 2002, 02:52 PM
To add to your list mishar, there were people who booed not because they hated the sisters or because they withdrew but because they were there and were part of a mob (group dynamics theory) and did not bother to analyse their actions. I believe that the majority fall into this group with only a few orchastrating the act!

I do believe thoug that the officials (umpire) should have controlled the mob. I do not believe that this sort of thing would have happened at wimbledon! At the Finals last year the Umpire remained fully in controll.

Pureracket
Mar 15th, 2002, 09:11 PM
A4,
Richard Williams looks to be about 5'10, 180lbs, hardly "menacing".

essielewis
Mar 15th, 2002, 10:28 PM
i don't think the media is outraged that Venus and Serena chose not to play, i think most people understand why they've made their choices

True, not ALL of the media were slamming Venus and Serena for not playing but SOME were. Somebody posted a story from a Miami newspaper where the writer was totally outraged. I e-mailed him and he wrote back. We had a back and forth for a few messages but he didn't see it my way and I didn't see it his way. He was totally convinced that the Williams girls were upset over nothing:confused: because, in his words, nobody was using racial slurs because if they were then somebody in the audience would have reported it and nobody told him.:rolleyes: He said Venus and Serena were just being "vindictive" and wanted to "punish" Indian Wells. I told him I didn't believe that was the case at all. In my opinion they were hurt and angry. He didn't see it that way. There was no way he was going to change his mind.

Actually, his story was the only really negative one written about Venus and Serena skipping Indian Wells. Mostly the sports writers seem to understand and agree with their reasons.


. . . because they were there and were part of a mob (group dynamics theory) and did not bother to analyse their actions. I believe that the majority fall into this group with only a few orchastrating the act!

I agree with this. People do begin to react to the actions of others. The "mob mentality" was alive and well at Indian Wells last year.:fiery: I think there are a lot of people who were/are embarrassed about what they did or what they witnessed. And, they should be.:o


jen doesn't have to play Indian Wells to take back her #1 ranking. I read here on the messageboard that she will regain the #1 ranking on monday because venus chose to skip IW and is losing points in doing so.

I thought this would be the case since Jennifer and Venus are only a couple dozen points apart. What I meant about the media and fans not mentioning Jennifer is that she didn't play Indian Wells, giving no explanation, which she has a right to do but there was almost no talk about it. All criticism was focused on Venus and Serena, which I thought was grossly unfair.

Every tennis player has a right to skip whatever tournament he/she wants to skip, without giving an explanation. And, none of them should be criticised for doing it.:p

LucasArg
Mar 16th, 2002, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by joe

``When we play tennis we like to have fun,'' Serena said Tuesday.

``We go places we enjoy playing. We're entertainers and we entertain the crowd. If we can't entertain then our job is over, and I don't think we were doing a great job entertaining them last year.''




I respect both of them, If they don't want to play it again, That's fine with me:wavey:

Gumbycat
Mar 16th, 2002, 09:12 AM
Good Bye Indian Wells. I hope Venus and Serena skip Indian Wells for 5 years!!!!!

TeeRexx
Mar 16th, 2002, 12:55 PM
by Essie -
There is no negativity towards them and I don't think they think there is. These young women fill the stands and get enormous television ratings. All those people aren't just there to see them lose a match

Essir your reading comprehension is a little and your logic as well.

I never said that all fans cme to root against them, but I have a fairly high quality television and VCR and I do hear a didtinct higher level of volume of cheering whenever VENUS or SEREN loses a point against an opponet.

Hopefully it is just a few individuals with very big mouths who love to harass the Williams.

Gumbycat - Yes, a five hear hiatus from Indian Wells sounds good, but I still think that SERENA may return within that time period.

Bright Red
Mar 16th, 2002, 04:07 PM
...but I have a fairly high quality television and VCR and I do hear a didtinct higher level of volume of cheering whenever VENUS or (Serena) loses a point against an opponet...

Tee Rexx,

You are so-o-o-o-o-o right!

TeeRexx
Mar 16th, 2002, 05:45 PM
Bright Red - I'm gld that you have a decent TV set as well. ;)

saki
Mar 16th, 2002, 06:04 PM
Firstly, I'm not going to comment on the racist allegations as I wasn't there to hear whether or not such comments were made.

But, I do think that the booing (undeniable) was unfair. It seems to me pretty obvious that Venus was injured, pulling out at the last minute to give herself as much time as possible to see whether it would be OK. If they wanted to fix a match, they would have played the match and had one of them tank it. There was no reason, whatsoever, for the matchfixing or lying about injury allegations. Also, given that it was Venus who pulled out, Serena shouldn't have been booed. I can almost understand a disappointed crowd booing at the announcement that Venus had withdrawn, but to boo Serena in her match was really unfair.

That's my take on it anyway.

As to whether or not they'll play - who knows? I agree that Serena is more likely to play it again, than Venus. I just hope that they make their own decision on this, and don't feel pressured by the tournament, the WTA or the public. But I'm sure that'll happen anyway.

harloo
Mar 16th, 2002, 06:58 PM
Well, essie lewis I kinda disagree with ya on the crowds. I agree with Tee and Bright Red. Almost every match I watch of the sister's their is always applause when they lose a point. Or if they protest a line call which they rarely do, you hear alot of booing. And please don't let a call go against one of their favorites like Jen, or Lindsay, all hell breaks loose. If you don't believe so watch 2001 US Open semis Venus vs. Jen. Their are matches where it doesn't happen, but that's far and few between.

I don't necessarily always think it is racism. Some people are, but some are not racist. It basically has to do with racial identification. Tennis is a white sport, and they identify with their own here in the states. It's not about if you are an American or not, but what get's me about the American crowd is that they will cheer someone from a different country against the sister's. So, you have a feeling that they despise them. And that may be due to the fact that they can't accept two black women winning alot.

As far as Indian Wells, I read that one article and it was sort of scandalous. However, I feel he has a right to his opinion but he was obviously bias. I haven't heard too much about the Williams not showing up, I have heard one comment from Cliff Drysdale but really who cares. The bottom line is that if they didn't want to show up, good for them. I probably would never go back to the desert after the treatment of the crowd. Hopefully Serena will go back next year, but as far as Venus the who knows.