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"Sluggy"
Sep 27th, 2004, 08:55 AM
Just wondering. It seems like couples arent marrying anymore, least to me. Seems like im the only married person I know of my old time friends and my relatives. All my relatives and friends are single and looking for mates. What happened? Any ideas? I know beautiful intelligent women, and they are not having an easy time finding suitable mates. It also seems like the women these days are more sophisticated, educated and got-it-together more than the guys. What is going on?

rand
Sep 27th, 2004, 09:20 AM
I'm getting married next year, september 21st :)

sarza
Sep 27th, 2004, 10:42 AM
yeah i think what your saying is true. It does seem that less people are getting married, but then again the dirvorce rate just seems to keep going up.

Saying that my best friend got married a while ago, and my sister is getting married next year :D

Justeenium
Sep 27th, 2004, 11:53 AM
i'll marry these beautiful women you speak of frogburger

Evelyn Tremble
Sep 27th, 2004, 11:58 AM
I was married myself until a few years back.I believe it takes more than love to make a marriage work. You need to be as physically companionable as you are emotionally. You also need to be able to converse. My wife and I were best friends we spent two and half years becoming best friends and getting to know each other before we thought of marriage. I think being best friends helped in the communication department. We could talk about anything and everything for hours and hours.
I think many people marry for various reasons. Some for sex-beauty-pity-money or on a whim hence the divorce rate stats. Some say that society has become a lot more self-centred and the "me culture" is very much part of my 30 something culture (and by default anyone younger). self gratification and the general quality of life that we enjoy compared to what my parents grew up with make us much more impatient; the media doesn't help either - the plastic ideals that are bandied around make us lose sight of our human nature.

AjdeNate!
Sep 27th, 2004, 12:08 PM
I'm not allowed to,.... and I probably wouldn't personally, anyway.

Evelyn Tremble
Sep 27th, 2004, 12:09 PM
I'm not allowed to,.... and I probably wouldn't personally, anyway.

May I ask why are you not allowed to be wed?

Calvin
Sep 27th, 2004, 12:09 PM
In Belgium, marriage is "in" again. While people 5-10 yrs older than me (im 24 next week) chose to stay unmarried, people my age are marrying all over the place. As a matter of fact, I got married less than 2 months ago (only by law), and am marrying again (ceremony+party) on may 5th 2005 :D

"Sluggy"
Sep 27th, 2004, 12:09 PM
Evelyn Tremble is absolutely right! Plus its harder and harder to buy a home, in the States you have so little vacation too... its kinda of a lose lose situation. Plus, sorry to say girls, us guys get a lot of the blame when things go wrong so IMO theres not a hell of a lot of honour or respect for married guys these days. I think the womens movement and general liberation of society, killed lots of prospects for women marrying..

AjdeNate!
Sep 27th, 2004, 12:19 PM
May I ask why are you not allowed to be wed?
I'm gay and live in the USA, it's illegal or whatnot here.

rand
Sep 27th, 2004, 12:24 PM
congrats @the pinguin :worship:

Helen Lawson
Sep 27th, 2004, 12:25 PM
I never got over Floyd's death, so I vowed never to marry again. I came close when Ken Lay was madly in love with me, but he was just too consumed with running Enron to really be the adoring husband I need.

rand
Sep 27th, 2004, 12:25 PM
I'm gay and live in the USA, it's illegal or whatnot here.
that doesn't mean you're not allowed to wed..you're allowed, just not with somebody of the same sex....
(no, this doens't mean I don't approve gay marriage, in fact I do....)

"Sluggy"
Sep 27th, 2004, 12:29 PM
i'll marry these beautiful women you speak of frogburger


Great, how beautiful do they have to be?

BTW, I am all for Gay marriage and Gay adoption. I also would like to see though, my cousins find the men of their dreams. Is this widespread? or is it only secular liberals that are having trouble finding mates?

By the way, a friend who just spent a year in Taiwan says its worse there. She said that the women are generally much more educated and sophisticated than the men. that the men, as a consequence, import women from other asian nations where women are more submissive. Basically it sounds like the women there are overqualified :confused: . She also said that a male teacher there is a first class catch... very hard to find and worth more than gold.

Neely
Sep 27th, 2004, 01:52 PM
I wouldn't mary too fast and I think for the first years just living together without marriage is also okay. Except some little tax advantages and financial security in case of death of your partner, marriage doesn't change much for me. You can be happy without marriage as well and I wouldn't marry too early in my life.

esquímaux
Sep 27th, 2004, 02:05 PM
I'm gay and live in the USA, it's illegal or whatnot here.That's alright hon :kiss: We can go south of the border (dodge a couple druglords :scared: ) and have our wed in Meh-hee-ko. I hear they'll wed anything down there :eek:;):angel:

Svennovitch
Sep 27th, 2004, 02:06 PM
that doesn't mean you're not allowed to wed..you're allowed, just not with somebody of the same sex....
(no, this doens't mean I don't approve gay marriage, in fact I do....)
If he'd come over to Belgium or The Netherlands, he'd even be allowed.

Congrats with the engagement :D
Congrats with the big step, Pinguin :bounce:

I hope one day I'll meet the right girl to marry with...

-Ph51-
Sep 27th, 2004, 02:13 PM
I'm getting married next year, september 21st :)
Brussels Tour + Party :bounce: :bounce: :angel:

-Ph51-
Sep 27th, 2004, 02:14 PM
In Belgium, marriage is "in" again. While people 5-10 yrs older than me (im 24 next week) chose to stay unmarried, people my age are marrying all over the place. As a matter of fact, I got married less than 2 months ago (only by law), and am marrying again (ceremony+party) on may 5th 2005 :D
Congrats :wavey:

rand
Sep 27th, 2004, 02:18 PM
If he'd come over to Belgium or The Netherlands, he'd even be allowed.

Congrats with the engagement :D
Congrats with the big step, Pinguin :bounce:

I hope one day I'll meet the right girl to marry with...we've been engaged for more than a year now, but thanks anyway...
we're not taking chances btw, we've been together for 6 years
and we've been living together 3 years already :)

rand
Sep 27th, 2004, 02:20 PM
Brussels Tour + Party :bounce: :bounce: :angel:
brussels tour is 12 november already :p
the wedding party will probably take place in antwerp btw :p

AjdeNate!
Sep 27th, 2004, 02:22 PM
That's alright hon :kiss: We can go south of the border (dodge a couple druglords :scared: ) and have our wed in Meh-hee-ko. I hear they'll wed anything down there :eek:;):angel:
:lol: :yeah: How 'bout Venezuela tho'.... it's prettier there. lol

Evelyn Tremble
Sep 27th, 2004, 05:44 PM
I'm gay and live in the USA, it's illegal or whatnot here.
Ah I see.
The only justification I ever hear is that it's a sin. Which isn't any kind of a justifiable reason in a secular nation like the United States.

Kart
Sep 27th, 2004, 06:25 PM
If my parents had their way my marriage would have been arranged ages ago.

skanky~skanketta
Sep 27th, 2004, 06:25 PM
i wanna get married....to 3 people at once. :o

Circe
Sep 27th, 2004, 06:33 PM
Ah I see.
The only justification I ever hear is that it's a sin. Which isn't any kind of a justifiable reason in a secular nation like the United States.
i sometimes wonder whether we are still a secular state. or ever really were.

Bacardi
Sep 27th, 2004, 07:43 PM
Married here :wavey:
Althou it's not legally recognized as a wedding, still, I try

gentenaire
Sep 27th, 2004, 07:49 PM
Strange, I've been getting the impression everyone's getting married these days. Last wedding I went to (three weeks ago or so), I was sitting in front and next to about 6 couples that were about to get married or had just gotten married. They were all taking notes or comparing the wedding to their own. "We didn't do it this way, we thought it was better to..." All the people around me are getting married.

I keep getting invited to parties where I'm the only single! It's really frustrating.

Send those relatives and friends over here, Frogburger.

esquímaux
Sep 27th, 2004, 08:10 PM
:lol: :yeah: How 'bout Venezuela tho'.... it's prettier there. lolYou what, you're right :hearts: Thatta way, I'll get to stalk Milly Sequera after the honeymoon :hearts::D

BritneySpearsIsHot
Sep 27th, 2004, 08:13 PM
If two people truly love each other (and it's not based on looks, big dicks or big tits, money or anything to do with status) then marriage is a super thing and i hope those people are happy.

Marriage is a great thing, but only marry because you love the person, not because they have a 10" dick and a Ferrari or a juciy pair of 40 FF's and a good blowjob technique

Mase
Sep 27th, 2004, 08:37 PM
I was just in a wedding for my brother so yeah, some people still are... ;)

Emola
Sep 27th, 2004, 08:39 PM
I dont know but my uncle's brother got married last week to a really lovely woman. They have been together for 9 years and are so well suited with 3 kids :couple: Im sure they'll be very happy. Having said that, I dont really know any other engaged couples......most people I know who have been together for a while are married. The other couples I know are just college kids.

ToadBurger
Sep 27th, 2004, 08:53 PM
:bounce:

Womens' standards have gotten out of control (before you race to counter me, I am speaking as a woman myself). Most women think that, "what's good for the goose is good for the gandor", as in, if the woman has ten university degrees and is earning 6 figures, the man must not only match this but ideally should have more degrees and be making more money. Women still want to be taken care of, but now there's a lot more of us to be taken care of: please love and nurture my independence, my need for you to be rich, my moodiness, my ego as a six-figure earner, and my need to social climb?

Women need to get real: if you are making six figures, why must the man also make that much? No one needs that much money. Instead, women should look at all men and their ability to make a woman feel special. It's about the little things, isn't it? Guess what: a poor man can love and deliver on little things too. A poor man would work everyday for a small amount of money and then figure out ways to make that money stretch so that he can make a woman feel loved, desired and taken care of. Some of the best, most honest and real love have come from men who could barely afford to buy me a dinner out.

Our biggest mistakes, women, is that we're overlooking the poor (or "poorer than us women") men. What's wrong with them but their income? Can't our sizeable incomes fix that? In my opinion, the poor man not only can give love, marriage, fidelity, commitment, etc, but he can give this perhaps more than a wealthy man can, because he knows the value of money--and women.

BritneySpearsIsHot
Sep 27th, 2004, 09:04 PM
:bounce:

Womens' standards have gotten out of control (before you race to counter me, I am speaking as a woman myself). Most women think that, "what's good for the goose is good for the gandor", as in, if the woman has ten university degrees and is earning 6 figures, the man must not only match this but ideally should have more degrees and be making more money. Women still want to be taken care of, but now there's a lot more of us to be taken care of: please love and nurture my independence, my need for you to be rich, my moodiness, my ego as a six-figure earner, and my need to social climb?

Women need to get real: if you are making six figures, why must the man also make that much? No one needs that much money. Instead, women should look at all men and their ability to make a woman feel special. It's about the little things, isn't it? Guess what: a poor man can love and deliver on little things too. A poor man would work everyday for a small amount of money and then figure out ways to make that money stretch so that he can make a woman feel loved, desired and taken care of. Some of the best, most honest and real love have come from men who could barely afford to buy me a dinner out.

Our biggest mistakes, women, is that we're overlooking the poor (or "poorer than us women") men. What's wrong with them but their income? Can't our sizeable incomes fix that? In my opinion, the poor man not only can give love, marriage, fidelity, commitment, etc, but he can give this perhaps more than a wealthy man can, because he knows the value of money--and women.
Possibly the finest post i have ever read on these boards. :yeah: Will respond in full later, when i've been beaten by my sisters at FIFA 2004 (Who are the 7 best women in the world ever.......and no bloke can ever have them.......without my approval :p )

Justeenium
Sep 27th, 2004, 09:17 PM
Great, how beautiful do they have to be?
.

FrogBurger, i'm not shallow. The only stipulation is that they not be Justine-haters.

oh and also I'm the only child of wealthy parents

BritneySpearsIsHot
Sep 27th, 2004, 10:48 PM
:bounce:

Womens' standards have gotten out of control (before you race to counter me, I am speaking as a woman myself). Most women think that, "what's good for the goose is good for the gandor", as in, if the woman has ten university degrees and is earning 6 figures, the man must not only match this but ideally should have more degrees and be making more money. Women still want to be taken care of, but now there's a lot more of us to be taken care of: please love and nurture my independence, my need for you to be rich, my moodiness, my ego as a six-figure earner, and my need to social climb?

Women need to get real: if you are making six figures, why must the man also make that much? No one needs that much money. Instead, women should look at all men and their ability to make a woman feel special. It's about the little things, isn't it? Guess what: a poor man can love and deliver on little things too. A poor man would work everyday for a small amount of money and then figure out ways to make that money stretch so that he can make a woman feel loved, desired and taken care of. Some of the best, most honest and real love have come from men who could barely afford to buy me a dinner out.

Our biggest mistakes, women, is that we're overlooking the poor (or "poorer than us women") men. What's wrong with them but their income? Can't our sizeable incomes fix that? In my opinion, the poor man not only can give love, marriage, fidelity, commitment, etc, but he can give this perhaps more than a wealthy man can, because he knows the value of money--and women.
I said i would reply, but i can't add too much to what has been said superbly well.

Age, race, status etc should never be a problem. If a 50 year old wants to marry an 18 year old, an Asian marry a White person or a tramp marry a 'lady' then who am i to say what he or she shouldn't do :confused:

Fact is, if a rich girl looked down at me, i couldn't care less, i don't need them more than they don't need me......and there are another one and a half billion women to aim for.

For the first time in nearly 13 years i'm happy, i would love to meet another lovely girl.........but i have got 7 sisters, 7 that are new to me after being seperated, having never seen them, they are all 18-26, i'm 28, i'm pretty happy and my sisters don't look down at me cos i'm not Brad Pitt, not rich and not head of Microsoft...........

Sadly, when a woman says she wants a man, she means she wants money and Brad Pitt with a big dick.........when a man says he wants a woman, he means big tits and endless blowjobs............that's what marriage is to MOST PEOPLE.

There are those in the minority though :angel:

rockbottom
Sep 28th, 2004, 12:12 AM
Sadly, when a woman says she wants a man, she means she wants money and Brad Pitt with a big dick.........when a man says he wants a woman, he means big tits and endless blowjobsMarriage is a great thing, but only marry because you love the person, not because they have a 10" dick and a Ferrari or a juciy pair of 40 FF's and a good blowjob techniqueI don't know what it is but something tells me you like blowjobs.

BritneySpearsIsHot
Sep 28th, 2004, 12:15 AM
Is it safe to assume you like blowjobs?
Name me a bloke who doesn't......but my point is, people marry for the wrong reasons

rockbottom
Sep 28th, 2004, 12:26 AM
Name me a bloke who doesn't......Tis better to give than receive....:smoke:

GBFH
Sep 28th, 2004, 12:48 AM
I'm gay and live in the USA, it's illegal or whatnot here.
hubby :sad:

selking
Sep 28th, 2004, 12:54 AM
Can I Be Hubby Number 2?

GBFH
Sep 28th, 2004, 12:56 AM
of course, erik.

GBFH
Sep 28th, 2004, 01:01 AM
:bounce:

Womens' standards have gotten out of control (before you race to counter me, I am speaking as a woman myself). Most women think that, "what's good for the goose is good for the gandor", as in, if the woman has ten university degrees and is earning 6 figures, the man must not only match this but ideally should have more degrees and be making more money. Women still want to be taken care of, but now there's a lot more of us to be taken care of: please love and nurture my independence, my need for you to be rich, my moodiness, my ego as a six-figure earner, and my need to social climb?

Women need to get real: if you are making six figures, why must the man also make that much? No one needs that much money. Instead, women should look at all men and their ability to make a woman feel special. It's about the little things, isn't it? Guess what: a poor man can love and deliver on little things too. A poor man would work everyday for a small amount of money and then figure out ways to make that money stretch so that he can make a woman feel loved, desired and taken care of. Some of the best, most honest and real love have come from men who could barely afford to buy me a dinner out.

Our biggest mistakes, women, is that we're overlooking the poor (or "poorer than us women") men. What's wrong with them but their income? Can't our sizeable incomes fix that? In my opinion, the poor man not only can give love, marriage, fidelity, commitment, etc, but he can give this perhaps more than a wealthy man can, because he knows the value of money--and women.
spoken like a true idealist :lol:

BritneySpearsIsHot
Sep 28th, 2004, 01:23 AM
Tis better to give than receive....:smoke:
For sure, not blowjobs though..............i'd rather not.....but a clean and 'not too wild down there' woman can receive as much as she wants

"Sluggy"
Sep 28th, 2004, 12:00 PM
:bounce:

Womens' standards have gotten out of control (before you race to counter me, I am speaking as a woman myself). Most women think that, "what's good for the goose is good for the gandor", as in, if the woman has ten university degrees and is earning 6 figures, the man must not only match this but ideally should have more degrees and be making more money. Women still want to be taken care of, but now there's a lot more of us to be taken care of: please love and nurture my independence, my need for you to be rich, my moodiness, my ego as a six-figure earner, and my need to social climb?

Women need to get real: if you are making six figures, why must the man also make that much? No one needs that much money. Instead, women should look at all men and their ability to make a woman feel special. It's about the little things, isn't it? Guess what: a poor man can love and deliver on little things too. A poor man would work everyday for a small amount of money and then figure out ways to make that money stretch so that he can make a woman feel loved, desired and taken care of. Some of the best, most honest and real love have come from men who could barely afford to buy me a dinner out.

Our biggest mistakes, women, is that we're overlooking the poor (or "poorer than us women") men. What's wrong with them but their income? Can't our sizeable incomes fix that? In my opinion, the poor man not only can give love, marriage, fidelity, commitment, etc, but he can give this perhaps more than a wealthy man can, because he knows the value of money--and women.

:worship: What a intelligent and sensitive post, and if i was single, and not your cousin, I'd wisk you away on my old and lame lowgrade work poney. Ive been saying things like this for a long time, and you expressed it all so well.

gentenaire
Sep 28th, 2004, 05:00 PM
:bounce:

Womens' standards have gotten out of control (before you race to counter me, I am speaking as a woman myself). Most women think that, "what's good for the goose is good for the gandor", as in, if the woman has ten university degrees and is earning 6 figures, the man must not only match this but ideally should have more degrees and be making more money. Women still want to be taken care of, but now there's a lot more of us to be taken care of: please love and nurture my independence, my need for you to be rich, my moodiness, my ego as a six-figure earner, and my need to social climb?

Women need to get real: if you are making six figures, why must the man also make that much? No one needs that much money. Instead, women should look at all men and their ability to make a woman feel special. It's about the little things, isn't it? Guess what: a poor man can love and deliver on little things too. A poor man would work everyday for a small amount of money and then figure out ways to make that money stretch so that he can make a woman feel loved, desired and taken care of. Some of the best, most honest and real love have come from men who could barely afford to buy me a dinner out.

Our biggest mistakes, women, is that we're overlooking the poor (or "poorer than us women") men. What's wrong with them but their income? Can't our sizeable incomes fix that? In my opinion, the poor man not only can give love, marriage, fidelity, commitment, etc, but he can give this perhaps more than a wealthy man can, because he knows the value of money--and women.

I think that for every woman who's like that, there are two men who won't date women with a higher degree than themselves or who make more money. There aren't that many men out there who wouldn't mind having a wife who's a lot smarter than them.

saki
Sep 28th, 2004, 07:15 PM
I think that for every woman who's like that, there are two men who won't date women with a higher degree than themselves or who make more money. There aren't that many men out there who wouldn't mind having a wife who's a lot smarter than them.
I agree. There are more men around who can't cope with their gf/wife being cleverer than they are than there are women who can't cope with being with a poorer guy. I think rough equality between partners is desirable, but that's not just about income, it's also about intelligence. I don't want to date someone who isn't on my intellectual level and I'm not going to apologise for that.

BritneySpearsIsHot
Sep 28th, 2004, 10:37 PM
It's more simple than that. The amount of people i see each day where one is thick as shit and the other intelligent and are obviously together based on looks is remarkable.

And as someone who's last partner didn't even know who Tony Blair was, you'll have to forgive me for not wanting to ever have a relationship with a dumbass again.

As long as someone can hold a conversation with a decent level of intellect, then that's fine..........too much intelligence though is often countered with lack of common sense and realism.....not to mention they are as boring as fuck!

smarties
Sep 28th, 2004, 11:14 PM
Here in Québec, people mostly move in together and don't marry it's called: ''union de fait'' I think it's because it's way more easier to run away (without all the fights about the house and stuff) when things are not going well. I think it's pretty pathetic and coward if you ask me.

"Sluggy"
Sep 29th, 2004, 08:03 AM
I think that for every woman who's like that, there are two men who won't date women with a higher degree than themselves or who make more money. There aren't that many men out there who wouldn't mind having a wife who's a lot smarter than them.


Excellent point Genetaire. I mostly agree. However, what if the woman doesnt expect the guy to dress, act, etc etc to keep up with the joneses. What if he can just be a janitor and not be held to all these societal standards?

daniela86
Sep 29th, 2004, 08:49 AM
It's more simple than that. The amount of people i see each day where one is thick as shit and the other intelligent and are obviously together based on looks is remarkable.

And as someone who's last partner didn't even know who Tony Blair was, you'll have to forgive me for not wanting to ever have a relationship with a dumbass again.

As long as someone can hold a conversation with a decent level of intellect, then that's fine..........too much intelligence though is often countered with lack of common sense and realism.....not to mention they are as boring as fuck!

I agree :yeah: :kiss: Intelligence is very very important!!

Btw,I believe in marriage's values and love forever.I am very very happy to have a serious relation because I had the luck to find a men whom I love and with whom I get on well in all departements. :D

saki
Sep 29th, 2004, 03:36 PM
Excellent point Genetaire. I mostly agree. However, what if the woman doesnt expect the guy to dress, act, etc etc to keep up with the joneses. What if he can just be a janitor and not be held to all these societal standards?
I don't think it's really about "societal standards" though. Personally, as an academic, I would have nothing in common with a janitor and, given that, I don't want to date one. I don't care about how my boyfriend dresses or whether he keeps up with the joneses, but I do require him to be reasonably intellectual because I want someone I can talk about intellectual things with. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

gentenaire
Sep 29th, 2004, 03:40 PM
I don't think it's really about "societal standards" though. Personally, as an academic, I would have nothing in common with a janitor and, given that, I don't want to date one. I don't care about how my boyfriend dresses or whether he keeps up with the joneses, but I do require him to be reasonably intellectual because I want someone I can talk about intellectual things with. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Exactly!

Experimentee
Sep 29th, 2004, 04:20 PM
Actually quite a few of my friends are married or engaged, about 5 out of 70 in my school year. And we're only 20-21. Maybe because a lot of them are religious Christians and are getting married just for sex.
Personally I dont see whats so special about marriage. I'm in no hurry, i think you can have a good relationship and everything will be the same whether you have the ceremony or not. And I also want to be independent and work on my career and see the world and all that. Probably thats what most women want to do now more than ever.

Experimentee
Sep 29th, 2004, 04:31 PM
I don't think it's really about "societal standards" though. Personally, as an academic, I would have nothing in common with a janitor and, given that, I don't want to date one. I don't care about how my boyfriend dresses or whether he keeps up with the joneses, but I do require him to be reasonably intellectual because I want someone I can talk about intellectual things with. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Its also totally different social circles. If you are a successful commercial lawyer for example, you'll go to parties and meet other people in business, law, and other highly paid occupations. Its very rare to meet someone like a janitor with that sort of life. And your other friends will be people you met at uni, which isnt a place where tradespeople will be.

And I agree that most successful people look for someone with a similar level of intelligence. I wouldnt want someone dumb who couldnt carry on an intellectual conversation either, and probably, the other person wouldnt want someone who bored them with intellectual stuff.

Personally if i could meet someone reasonaly intelligent who happened to have a low paying job and who i loved, I wouldnt not marry them just based on their income.

DemWilliamsGulls
Sep 29th, 2004, 04:39 PM
From looking at the divorce statistics...the question should be...Do people really NEED to get married.

BritneySpearsIsHot
Sep 29th, 2004, 11:29 PM
I agree :yeah: :kiss: Intelligence is very very important!!

Btw,I believe in marriage's values and love forever.I am very very happy to have a serious relation because I had the luck to find a men whom I love and with whom I get on well in all departements. :D
:yeah: I too believe in marriage values.

I will wait forever to find another girl, my last partner is sadly no longer with us and that great relationship means i need not accept 2nd best :yeah:

saki
Oct 1st, 2004, 09:54 AM
you can do all that while married:) the problem sometimes is that people feel like getting married means supressing their own goals and aspirations:confused: I'm not going to say that being married doesn't sometimes call for you to put your own needs second but your personal growth is something imo, that does not have to be compromised because you are married. I do agree with you that 20-21 is way too young simply because most of us at that age don't even know who we really are and should be experiencing life to find it out on our own without having to cater to someone else's needs. But sometimes it works out for people, growing together and all that mush:)

Saki- what are you gettign your Phd in:)
I agree with you but I think it depends a bit on what sort of career you're aiming for. Some careers demand a lot of travel - a friend of mine is a journalist with Reuters and for the forseeable future she'll be spending alternate years in London and other European cities - which can be ok if your spouse doesn't also have the same sort of career, but if both of you need to travel for your career, it can be pretty much impossible to find a compromise without one person essentially having to give up their career of choice. Some relationships are worth that, but the problem is then that the person who gave up their dream career is going to feel resentful in the future and it'll put a lot of strain on a relationship. I'm a PhD student dating another PhD student and, while I love him dearly, until we reach the point where we can find jobs near to each other, I'm not prepared to be married to him. My PhD's in ancient philosophy, btw - I'm in the classics department at the moment but will probably move to a philosophy department later on.

Hagar
Oct 1st, 2004, 10:38 AM
:bounce:

Womens' standards have gotten out of control (before you race to counter me, I am speaking as a woman myself). Most women think that, "what's good for the goose is good for the gandor", as in, if the woman has ten university degrees and is earning 6 figures, the man must not only match this but ideally should have more degrees and be making more money. Women still want to be taken care of, but now there's a lot more of us to be taken care of: please love and nurture my independence, my need for you to be rich, my moodiness, my ego as a six-figure earner, and my need to social climb?

Women need to get real: if you are making six figures, why must the man also make that much? No one needs that much money. Instead, women should look at all men and their ability to make a woman feel special. It's about the little things, isn't it? Guess what: a poor man can love and deliver on little things too. A poor man would work everyday for a small amount of money and then figure out ways to make that money stretch so that he can make a woman feel loved, desired and taken care of. Some of the best, most honest and real love have come from men who could barely afford to buy me a dinner out.

Our biggest mistakes, women, is that we're overlooking the poor (or "poorer than us women") men. What's wrong with them but their income? Can't our sizeable incomes fix that? In my opinion, the poor man not only can give love, marriage, fidelity, commitment, etc, but he can give this perhaps more than a wealthy man can, because he knows the value of money--and women.
Aren't you being a tad simplistic here?

Poor men don't make better husbands than rich men. There are poor assholes as well as rich ones.
The thing is that if you are a woman with a certain degree of education and professional succes, you like to be with someone who is your equal. I would not at all feel comfortable with a man who earns a lot less than I do because I would be afraid that I would have to support the guy. I have a friend who is my age (40) and after being dumped by her previous bf of 10 years, she's now together with a guy who is in a wheelchair and lives from a medical pension! When they go on holiday, SHE pays for it. NEVER EVER would I want to be in that situation.
This said, I would not want to be supported by a man either.

Were things so much better when women stayed at home and had to ask money to their husband when they wanted to buy something?
I don't think a woman is being picky when she has a university degree and does not want a garbage man as her partner. You need to be able to TALK to your partner and therefore same education level is very important IMHO.

"Sluggy"
Oct 1st, 2004, 10:52 AM
Aren't you being a tad simplistic here?

Poor men don't make better husbands than rich men. There are poor assholes as well as rich ones.
The thing is that if you are a woman with a certain degree of education and professional succes, you like to be with someone who is your equal. I would not at all feel comfortable with a man who earns a lot less than I do because I would be afraid that I would have to support the guy. I have a friend who is my age (40) and after being dumped by her previous bf of 10 years, she's now together with a guy who is in a wheelchair and lives from a medical pension! When they go on holiday, SHE pays for it. NEVER EVER would I want to be in that situation.
This said, I would not want to be supported by a man either.

Were things so much better when women stayed at home and had to ask money to their husband when they wanted to buy something?
I don't think a woman is being picky when she has a university degree and does not want a garbage man as her partner. You need to be able to TALK to your partner and therefore same education level is very important IMHO.


I am of the belief that to a greater and greater degree in the years to come, the average woman will be better educated, better paid and more 'sophisticated' than their male counterparts (and their male siblings). Therefore, women will have to content themselves with less, adjust their priorities and expectations, or just have fathers that visit occasionally or never - they will just be progenitors. I havent seen the statistics, but i know that women outnumber men in law schools (at least they did when i went in the year 2000), and probably in colleges too... There are a lot of expectations put on us, and not necessarily the job market nor infrastructures in place to help us manage our issues.

Hagar
Oct 1st, 2004, 10:58 AM
Therefore, women will have to content themselves with less, adjust their priorities and expectations, or just have fathers that visit occasionally or never - they will just be progenitors.
That is a very scary thought. I'm afraid I am unable to content myself with less.

There are a lot of expectations put on us, and not necessarily the job market nor infrastructures in place to help us manage our issues.
Yeah, but what do you want women to do? Have pity for you and stroke your hurt egos? I want a companion, not someone I have to pick up from the street.

saki
Oct 1st, 2004, 12:28 PM
Yeah, but what do you want women to do? Have pity for you and stroke your hurt egos? I want a companion, not someone I have to pick up from the street.
Heh. I agree with you, but I do think that Frogburger has a point hidden inside the bizarre suggestions that educated women should marry janitors. It is true that more women than men are now becoming doctors and lawyers and other such professionals in most developed countries. It is also true that women still tend to expect their partners to be, not just equal to them, but cleverer than them. This isn't true of all women, but looking at my female friends who are all very intelligent young women, most of them do seem to want a man whom they can respect as being superior to them. This is going to become increasingly problematic in 50 years or so when, if the stats are to be believed, women will be earning more money than men, will be more highly educated on average than men. Women will have to adjust their ideas of marriage and start to look, not for janitors, but they will have to learn to accept that it's ok for them to be earning slightly more than their partners, be slightly more educated, etc. However, as gentenaire pointed out, it seems to be men who are more resistant to the changes that will have to happen to marriage than women. Men also will need to adjust their ideas of marriage once it becomes the case that the average woman earns more and is more educated than the average man. They will have to be prepared to do at least 50% of the housework and childcare and currently that really isn't happening. Every survey done shows that women do the vast majority of domestic tasks and this, believe me, isn't because women really enjoy scrubbing the toilet, it's because men aren't stepping up to do their fair share. It's still a horrifying thought to most men that they might have to stay at home with the children while their higher-earning wife goes out to work. And, if it does end up being the case that women earn more than men in 50 years or so, men are going to have to get with that program and, from my personal obsevations, men are going to have a harder time adjusting to that sort of marriage than women are, although both genders are going to have to work on it.

rand
Oct 1st, 2004, 12:49 PM
sometimes I just feel women just aren't realistic when it comes down to what men do or should do...
nowadays, we're expected to be strong and sensiive at the same time...manly,handymen, but ironers too...
a lot of us cook, clean and all, do their fair share of the householding, but a lot of the efforts we make just aren't noticed for example: men usually just aren't really good at keeping order in the house, but we do that to not anger the women, but, not only is it the one thing that we'll have forgotten that we know we'll hear of afterwards...but we certainly don't have to expect women making the same kind of efforts...try to watch sports? comments....
notice your gf made a mess without cleaning up herself? we get comments...
all that thing about equal rights and all is fairly right, but it seems a lot of women don't want equal rights anymore, they want to be more equal than men....
I don't think that's a situation in which men themselves want to bind anymore...we're supposed just to be happy "we have a gf"...which means basically that we're free to do whatever she wants to do.....
I just know I'll get comments on this one :D

rand
Oct 1st, 2004, 12:50 PM
well, yes I'm at work and I'm bored ....

saki
Oct 1st, 2004, 12:51 PM
Saki- i agree about the travel thing but some people compromise certain things and are not resentful, and of course others are. I always used to remember thinking, wow, so many women make the move somewhere else for their husbands/bfs jobs but more and more i see situations where men are moving for their bf, wives careers/jobs. As i said, whatever works for you- if you have a career that you can pretty much do anywhere, why not move if your mate have an opportunity- it's about balance and just as long as you are not compromising your entire being, and not fulfilling your own goals, i say go for it. I totally put my career and personal goals first in my relationship, keeping in mind my mate. Last year i wanted to take a 5 week certificate course in another o****ry and i was amazed at how many women said "you're gonna leave your husband fior 5 weeks, what does he think, blah. And i was like- its five weeks, I'm sure we will both survive, and what did he think- he had no choice but to be okay with it because i don't remember asking his permission:) At week 3 i was missing him though;)

saki- just saw your recent post- i agree that people's idea of what a marriage is will have to change- and that house work, taking care of kids is big- my mate will say to me i work, all these hours blah, and I'm like i work to why is it on me to do all the housework?? So, you know how I took care of him not wanting to do anything because then i have to nag him? I say, you pay for a housekeeper. I am not domesticated woman first of all but i didnt' mind doing things in my home but once he took the attitude of you need to clean, i was like nope. He even had the nerve to say once, that if anyone came to a dirty home, they would make judgement on what type of dirty woman I am and you know what, he was right- people still have these attitudes.
No, I realise that some people can make sacrifices and genuinely not be resentful about them, but I think people need to think long and hard before they do make those sacrifices. For one thing, it's really not fair on your partner if you say "no, it's fine, honey, I'll move with you" and then, five years down the line, start to blame them for what you lost out on. It's all about what works for you. I have one friend who has to spend alternate years in other European cities (as I mentioned before) and her boyfriend has travelled with her with her supporting him and they're fine with it. She doesn't mind supporting him because he's making the sacrifice of travelling with her and she gets to have someone she loves with her in a foreign country. I think it's also about respect - if someone sacrifices their career for you, it's incumbent on you IMO to respect them for it and not to whinge about having to support them.

Good for you re: your husband. These things go both ways - I don't want to suggest it's all about men being bastards and not wanting to do domestic things. Just as often it seems to be women who feel that they're failures if they have to share housework with their husbands. Both men and women tend to the view that housework is a woman's job and both need to adjust to the fact that it really doesn't have to be anymore and it really shouldn't be if both partners work.

"Sluggy"
Oct 1st, 2004, 12:54 PM
That is a very scary thought. I'm afraid I am unable to content myself with less.


Yeah, but what do you want women to do? Have pity for you and stroke your hurt egos? I want a companion, not someone I have to pick up from the street.


Well, i think that womens peer pressure is tremendous. Girls put so much pressure on each other, always comparing always commenting on each others choices.. You wanted equality in jobs and elsewhere and you basically got it - . So now are we still expected to ask your fathers for your hand in marriage and give assurances that we can support you? And who will back up our promises if the ecnomoy and big business doesnt provide jobs for us to do it? To answer your question, no, i dont ask for pity. But i do appreciate some respect. Not a girl who will bad mouth you to her girlfriends, and smile in your face. I think girls should 'Hope' for half the rent to be paid, half the bills to be paid, and a fair percentage of the home labour to be done, but not more. if the woman can afford a better place to live cause she has a great career, or her parents have money, fine, but dont expect the man to be able to keep up with the joneses. Likewise if my wife had lots of money, i wouldnt expect to be spending ANY of it on me. She can spend it on the kids, and on herself, but i wouldnt accept gifts, etc.. I'll buy my own stuff, and pay a fair share of the bills, but i draw the line there. How much is good enough anyway?

saki
Oct 1st, 2004, 12:58 PM
sometimes I just feel women just aren't realistic when it comes down to what men do or should do...
nowadays, we're expected to be strong and sensiive at the same time...manly,handymen, but ironers too...
a lot of us cook, clean and all, do their fair share of the householding, but a lot of the efforts we make just aren't noticed for example: men usually just aren't really good at keeping order in the house, but we do that to not anger the women, but, not only is it the one thing that we'll have forgotten that we know we'll hear of afterwards...but we certainly don't have to expect women making the same kind of efforts...try to watch sports? comments....
notice your gf made a mess without cleaning up herself? we get comments...
all that thing about equal rights and all is fairly right, but it seems a lot of women don't want equal rights anymore, they want to be more equal than men....
I don't think that's a situation in which men themselves want to bind anymore...we're supposed just to be happy "we have a gf"...which means basically that we're free to do whatever she wants to do.....
I just know I'll get comments on this one :D
With respect, you're talking bollocks. See http://www.khnl.com/Global/story.asp?S=2305557 for one survey of domestic tasks. There hasn't been a single survey which has shown that working men do anywhere near as much housework and childcare as working women do. Women aren't trying to get men to do more than 50%, they're just trying to get to somewhere near that 50% figure. Part of the problem is that men see themselves as "helping" women do housework rather than it being a joint responsibility. Women shouldn't have to get down on their knees and praise men for doing something that isn't a gift or a favour, it's something that they ought to be doing anyway. When men and women share equal domestic responsibility, then you can start complaining about how women want men to do more than their fair share, but we're a very long way from that.

Hagar
Oct 1st, 2004, 12:59 PM
I think girls should 'Hope' for half the rent to be paid, half the bills to be paid, and a fair percentage of the home labour to be done, but not more.
Well, I've never asked for more than that.
And I'm way too old to have someone ask my father to marry me.

"Sluggy"
Oct 1st, 2004, 01:01 PM
Heh. I agree with you, but I do think that Frogburger has a point hidden inside the bizarre suggestions that educated women should marry janitors. It is true that more women than men are now becoming doctors and lawyers and other such professionals in most developed countries. It is also true that women still tend to expect their partners to be, not just equal to them, but cleverer than them. This isn't true of all women, but looking at my female friends who are all very intelligent young women, most of them do seem to want a man whom they can respect as being superior to them. This is going to become increasingly problematic in 50 years or so when, if the stats are to be believed, women will be earning more money than men, will be more highly educated on average than men. Women will have to adjust their ideas of marriage and start to look, not for janitors, but they will have to learn to accept that it's ok for them to be earning slightly more than their partners, be slightly more educated, etc. However, as gentenaire pointed out, it seems to be men who are more resistant to the changes that will have to happen to marriage than women. Men also will need to adjust their ideas of marriage once it becomes the case that the average woman earns more and is more educated than the average man. They will have to be prepared to do at least 50% of the housework and childcare and currently that really isn't happening. Every survey done shows that women do the vast majority of domestic tasks and this, believe me, isn't because women really enjoy scrubbing the toilet, it's because men aren't stepping up to do their fair share. It's still a horrifying thought to most men that they might have to stay at home with the children while their higher-earning wife goes out to work. And, if it does end up being the case that women earn more than men in 50 years or so, men are going to have to get with that program and, from my personal obsevations, men are going to have a harder time adjusting to that sort of marriage than women are, although both genders are going to have to work on it.

I dont know about all that men not doing the housework stuff, i can tell you the ones i know do their share. i mostly agree with you on other points though. I want to add one thing: Remember, our fathers were the breadwinnners, depending on your age, and we want to be to. We want to bring home the bacon and feel like we are doing a good job, we want to be providers. That role has shifted and i venture to say that it is outside the realm of our natural role in society, up until this modern era.

saki
Oct 1st, 2004, 01:05 PM
Well, I've never asked for more than that.
And I'm way too old to have someone ask my father to marry me.
Quite. I don't think many women are looking for any more than that. Well, I think "a fair percentage of home labour" should be 50%, but apart from that..

Hagar
Oct 1st, 2004, 01:05 PM
I just know I'll get comments on this one :D
Of course, you get comments if what you're saying is crap. It's just the typical male complaints about women.
Is it your own gf who complains if you watch sports? Then I can only advise you to cancel the wedding...
If my guy watches sports, I watch with him. We can put the dishes in the dishwasher! :p

rand
Oct 1st, 2004, 01:06 PM
With respect, you're talking bollocks. See http://www.khnl.com/Global/story.asp?S=2305557 for one survey of domestic tasks. There hasn't been a single survey which has shown that working men do anywhere near as much housework and childcare as working women do. Women aren't trying to get men to do more than 50%, they're just trying to get to somewhere near that 50% figure. Part of the problem is that men see themselves as "helping" women do housework rather than it being a joint responsibility. Women shouldn't have to get down on their knees and praise men for doing something that isn't a gift or a favour, it's something that they ought to be doing anyway. When men and women share equal domestic responsibility, then you can start complaining about how women want men to do more than their fair share, but we're a very long way from that.
I'm talking merely about men who do, not saying most men do it do I?I know lots of men do it...btw your "survey" only talk about average...
if you take all the morons in account that don't do a single thing in the house, that would already make a serious difference...
and since it only speaks of a slight difference taking the average into account, then you can be damn sure it actually does mean lots of men do more than their share....

saki
Oct 1st, 2004, 01:07 PM
I dont know about all that men not doing the housework stuff, i can tell you the ones i know do their share. i mostly agree with you on other points though. I want to add one thing: Remember, our fathers were the breadwinnners, depending on your age, and we want to be to. We want to bring home the bacon and feel like we are doing a good job, we want to be providers. That role has shifted and i venture to say that it is outside the realm of our natural role in society, up until this modern era.
Every single housework survey contradicts you on the men doing their fair share front. I realise that the role has shifted but both men and women need to take that on board, not just women. It seems that many men see it as degrading to be asked or told to do 50% of childcare and housework and that needs to change. I know you were brought up to the "breadwinner" thing, but the fact is that there are more ways than that to support your family. If your wife earns more, you need to be prepared to support her by looking after the kids, etc.

saki
Oct 1st, 2004, 01:09 PM
I'm talking merely about men who do, not saying most men do it do I?I know lots of men do it...btw your "survey" only talk about average...
if you take all the morons in account that don't do a single thing in the house, that would already make a serious difference...
and since it only speaks of a slight difference taking the average into account, then you can be damn sure it actually does mean lots of men do more than their share....
Yes, but you seem to think that men deserve something "in return" for doing their fair share, and I don't think that they do. Doing household tasks is a responsibility for men as well as for women and it isn't a favour that deserves praise or a reward.

Hagar
Oct 1st, 2004, 01:11 PM
Hagar, your examle of your friend and teh guy in the wheelchair, unless she is complaining to you about her situation what is the problem? Well, my friend is suggesting all the time that I would look down on this guy and that's why she has not introduced me to him yet. But she's basically projecting her own insecurities about this relationship (and they are normal, aren't they?) on the people around her and it irritates me.
I always tell her: I'm not the one to decide whether a guy is good enough for YOU. I told her very honestly that I would never start a relationship with a guy in a wheelchair but if she has no problem with it, I haven't either. If my own partner would have an accident and end up in a wheelchair, that would be a completely different story of course.
But a guy who is in a wheelchair and has a low income while she has a high income, I would find that situation way too unbalanced.
What also irritates me is that my friend IMO should have analysed why her previous relationship went wrong. It went wrong because everything had to be her way. So yes, the guy had to be romantic but also to take care of a lot of things for the diva she is. The advantage of the wheelchair guy is that he basically never had a gf and is just too happy to follow her wherever she wants to go. With a healthy guy she would have to adapt herself and sometimes play the second violin.

rand
Oct 1st, 2004, 01:12 PM
Of course, you get comments if what you're saying is crap. It's just the typical male complaints about women.
Is it your own gf who complains if you watch sports? Then I can only advise you to cancel the wedding...
If my guy watches sports, I watch with him. We can put the dishes in the dishwasher! :p
my gf doesn't no...but I'm quite lucky...I'm stating what I see with a lot of my friends....
I don't see why it's bollocks...
I've been reading a lot of women magazines the last months while we were moving..and all most of the articles you can find in those just say what I'm saying, the propage a non-realistic expectation pattern....which is absolutely non based on equality, but on opposite sexism,btw while we're on it publicity does just the same...
I often hear complaining about how sexist commercials are, but indeed they are, men are most of the time portraited as dumb, thinking only about sex, and completely incompetent at everything, I never hear men complaining about that, but get sheltered if there's one in which a woman gets portrayed a bit badly....

rand
Oct 1st, 2004, 01:15 PM
Yes, but you seem to think that men deserve something "in return" for doing their fair share, and I don't think that they do. Doing household tasks is a responsibility for men as well as for women and it isn't a favour that deserves praise or a reward.
I absolutely don't imply they deserve anything in return, the only thing I say is that it should be quoted equally...if a man does something it should be appreciated zecactly in the same way as when a woman does, and often it just isn't....

Hagar
Oct 1st, 2004, 01:19 PM
I've been reading a lot of women magazines the last months while we were moving..and all most of the articles you can find in those just say what I'm saying, the propage a non-realistic expectation pattern....which is absolutely non based on equality, but on opposite sexism,btw while we're on it publicity does just the same...
I often hear complaining about how sexist commercials are, but indeed they are, men are most of the time portraited as dumb, thinking only about sex, and completely incompetent at everything, I never hear men complaining about that, but get sheltered if there's one in which a woman gets portrayed a bit badly....Rand, why do you think I stopped reading women's magazines a long time ago? :p
Really, most of the time what is in them has nothing to do with the way I perceive relationships. I think the division of tasks should be fair and result in a win-win situation, whether that means that he does the diapers and you the car or opposite.
Anayway, if I would live together with a guy, I would basically expect him to pay half of the cleaning lady's pay as I myself hate cleaning and ironing and work way too hard to amuse myself with that.

And you're right about the way men are pictured in commercials and it does irritate me (and I am a woman).

rand
Oct 1st, 2004, 01:25 PM
Rand, why do you think I stopped reading women's magazines a long time ago? :p
Really, most of the time what is in them has nothing to do with the way I perceive relationships. I think the division of tasks should be fair and result in a win-win situation, whether that means that he does the diapers and you the car or opposite.
Anayway, if I would live together with a guy, I would basically expect him to pay half of the cleaning lady's pay as I myself hate cleaning and ironing and work way too hard to amuse myself with that.

And you're right about the way men are pictured in commercials and it does irritate me (and I am a woman).
well, ok, but then again,if you know that's what's happening how can you say, when I state a lot of women's views are turning that way, that it's a load of bollocks? :con,fused:

Hagar
Oct 1st, 2004, 01:39 PM
well, ok, but then again,if you know that's what's happening how can you say, when I state a lot of women's views are turning that way, that it's a load of bollocks? :con,fused:
What is a load of bollocks, is your talk about all these women expecting men to do more and more.
I haven't seen any woman like that in my life. A lot of women I know have trouble enough to get their man to do just a bit in the house.

I just said you were right about men being pictured in a sexist way in ads.

Helen Lawson
Oct 1st, 2004, 01:42 PM
Both the twins got married. I don't approve of "shacking up" and the like. Pre-marital sex is just fine, but not living together.

rand
Oct 1st, 2004, 01:44 PM
What is a load of bollocks, is your talk about all these women expecting men to do more and more.
I haven't seen any woman like that in my life. A lot of women I know have trouble enough to get their man to do just a bit in the house.

I just said you were right about men being pictured in a sexist way in ads.
actually you agreed on the women magazibnes too...which make a big difference, because even if the women you know don't do that, you know a lot of women (just as men of course )are enough influencable to buy the bollocks those magazines keep feeding them to start acting the way the magazines say they should...and since that is non-realistic secist pattern...you don't really have to make a leap of faith to believe what I said and you called bolocks actually happens a lot....

Hagar
Oct 1st, 2004, 01:48 PM
actually you agreed on the women magazibnes too...which make a big difference, because even if the women you know don't do that, you know a lot of women (just as men of course )are enough influencable to buy the bollocks those magazines keep feeding them to start acting the way the magazines say they should...and since that is non-realistic secist pattern...you don't really have to make a leap of faith to believe what I said and you called bolocks actually happens a lot....
Sorry, I just don't get your point.
Or maybe you just want to have the last word. Here, you can have it:
:cool: [Last Word]:cool:

rand
Oct 1st, 2004, 01:56 PM
Sorry, I just don't get your point.
Or maybe you just want to have the last word. Here, you can have it:
:cool: [Last Word]:cool:
no I don't like I said I'm just bored....
my point is simple:
the thread starter (frogburger) seemed to wonder why people don't get married anymore, I say it's because relationships just don't work that well anymore...
the women's reasons are clear: they say they expect from their men to do half the work at home, to earn as much money as they do etc (equal portions of the realtionships for everyone)
I agree with that view BUT
I say men don't see it HAPPENING that way...
men just see a lot is expected from them, sometimes in an absurd way, and they don't get the same credit for what they do...you say that's a load of bollocks, but I say if it were a lot of bollocks it wouldn't be portrayed like that in all the women magazine...or in the commercials...
also when we talk housing work...do we count mowing the lawn? getting the car fixed? those kind of thinks, it's also housework, but a lot of women also don't take them in account when they say "they do more"....
simple no?

chrisbutt88
Oct 1st, 2004, 02:04 PM
Just wondering. It seems like couples arent marrying anymore, least to me. Seems like im the only married person I know of my old time friends and my relatives. All my relatives and friends are single and looking for mates. What happened? Any ideas? I know beautiful intelligent women, and they are not having an easy time finding suitable mates. It also seems like the women these days are more sophisticated, educated and got-it-together more than the guys. What is going on?:couple: :boxing: :hug: :smooch: :bigwave: Don't be sad or feel alone i'm married toooo..and a lot of my friends are still although they're in constant devorce-thought stress & i'm living in Holland of all places where 1 on 2,5 is devorcing....I think young people have attachment-fears (parents devorce example)& everybody has learned for 20 years to be egocentric here......
Beautiful intelligent women have heavy demands on task-& timesharing so they're quickly considered as bitchy, can't cook, to much careerstress so no bedescapades anymore..etc....They seem to got-it-together....ok money,style,interesses, networks, career...almost all except the most important...caring concerning love :crying2: You know what...fatbottemed big girls are very good to mary.... 1. Look very hot 2. Can cook well 3. Are very humoristic & sympa..so !!:crazy: :kiss:

Hagar
Oct 1st, 2004, 02:16 PM
but I say if it were a lot of bollocks it wouldn't be portrayed like that in all the women magazine...or in the commercials...
Well, is what women's magazines or commercials say reality? I'm not sure what is first: the commercial or reality. Is reality these days not often what people copy from commercials?

I hear/read men say what women want from them but it's often what they THINK women want from them. This gets irritating when you meet a guy who starts to tell you: "Yes, women are like that, women want this." In such a situation I always wonder why the guy is not asking ME what I want or think.

rand
Oct 1st, 2004, 02:26 PM
Well, is what women's magazines or commercials say reality? I'm not sure what is first: the commercial or reality. Is reality these days not often what people copy from commercials?

I hear/read men say what women want from them but it's often what they THINK women want from them. This gets irritating when you meet a guy who starts to tell you: "Yes, women are like that, women want this." In such a situation I always wonder why the guy is not asking ME what I want or think.
I'm not saying that the thing appearing in magazines or commercials ARE reality...I'm saying what's in it influences the way people view things....it's the other way around....
and most of the time what I talk about is first hand experience, not 'thinking that'....I happen to have a lot of female friends, and sometimes I'm just shocked about what they say....
of course what you're saying happens a lot too...

"Sluggy"
Oct 1st, 2004, 03:18 PM
Hey Chris! Nice Post :) . As for housework, i do tons of stuff. i take the kids for a lot of walks to the park, that frees up my wife. then i usually stay home with them so my wife can shop. otherwise i do all the dishes and the baths for the kids. she does the rest. I do less than 50 percent but shes happy. I do what she needs me to do. laundry is another thing, but ive done my own research - most women dont want men doing their laundry. :rolleyes:

gentenaire
Oct 1st, 2004, 06:16 PM
most women dont want men doing their laundry. :rolleyes:

Because we want our white shirts to remain white ;) :p

I think that one of the reasons it's still not equal is because the young people of today were brought up by parents who never experienced gender equality.

E.g. when my brothers moved out of the house, my mother would still do their laundry, whereas my sister and I have always had to do it ourselves. Also, my sister and I had to help a lot more with the household chores. We had to iron, cook, clean, and all other sorts of typical women's jobs. My brothers never had to do that. Yet, I did have to mow the lawn as well. I've always felt it was most unfair.

rand
Oct 4th, 2004, 08:21 AM
we did the laundry ourselves all the time, actually from way before we left the house....