PDA

View Full Version : TRacy Austin has Support by Mary Carillo & Mary Joe Fernandez on Venus weak game


cheo23
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:15 PM
I don't know why the media is finally hearin Tracy Austin sayin Venus & Serena need to work on their forehands & gettin new Advice....if U saw the match yesterday between Lindsay & Venus...Mary Carillo was talkin about it also...Don't forget at the Bank of the WEst Mary Joe Fernandez was explainin how Venus needs to get a Coach to work on the Forehand..Basically its OLD NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its so obvious Venus needs FResh input on her Weak sucky forehand Technique!!!!!!!!!! Its just TERRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!

bandabou
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:28 PM
We hear ya, we hear ya.....just donīt let Richard hear ya!! :lol:

cheo23
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:31 PM
By the way..I was lookin at Venus's losses...yesterday against Lindsay 42 Unforced Errors in 2 SETs...Olympics against My girl Mary Pierce 35 UEs..at Wimbledon against Karolina Sprem 33Unforced Errors...at the Bank of the WEst against Lindsay 73 Unforced ERrors....against Myskina at the French Open 46 Unforced Errors..
Something gotta Give!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm so Tired of Her ERRactic Self! Get it Together Venus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lolo7
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:06 PM
People are really amazing. I remember when Venus was dominating with that forehand it was those same losers such as Carillo,Austin and especialy Fernandez who would always say if you want to win pick on the Venus forehand. They expose the sisters weaknesses more than any other player. I really don't think that the rest of the tour were aware that the forehand side was Venus's biggest liability until these commentators kept repeating it over and over again. When the sisters were dominating you'll watch a match the questions would always be 'what can these players do to beat a Williams'? During the matches when Davenport was playing Venus during the summer I never heard once Mary Jo Fernandez say that Venus should move Lindsay around to beat her. They have exposed the sisters weaknesses constantly for everyone to exploit.They talk about Dementiava's poor serve but thats obvious to everyone. I didn't hear Mary Carillo say yesterday that Venus should move Lindsey from side to side. You guys don't recognize the blatant bias when it comes to the sisters.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:10 PM
People are really amazing. I remember when Venus was dominating with that forehand it was those same losers such as Carillo,Austin and especialy Fernandez who would always say if you want to win pick on the Venus forehand. They expose the sisters weaknesses more than any other player. I really don't think that the rest of the tour were aware that the forehand side was Venus's biggest liability until these commentators kept repeating it over and over again. When the sisters were dominating you'll watch a match the questions would always be 'what can these players do to beat a Williams'? During the matches when Davenport was playing Venus during the summer I never heard once Mary Jo Fernandez say that Venus should move Lindsay around to beat her. They have exposed the sisters weaknesses constantly for everyone to exploit.They talk about Dementiava's poor serve but thats obvious to everyone. I didn't hear Mary Carillo say yesterday that Venus should move Lindsey from side to side. You guys don't recognize the blatant bias when it comes to the sisters.

This is a great post!

Can you please post this in the thread I started?

Sportfan
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:10 PM
I don't know why the media is finally hearin Tracy Austin sayin Venus & Serena need to work on their forehands & gettin new Advice....if U saw the match yesterday between Lindsay & Venus...Mary Carillo was talkin about it also...Don't forget at the Bank of the WEst Mary Joe Fernandez was explainin how Venus needs to get a Coach to work on the Forehand..Basically its OLD NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its so obvious Venus needs FResh input on her Weak sucky forehand Technique!!!!!!!!!! Its just TERRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!
Venus had 18 forehand winners to 20 unforced errors on that side it looks pretty even to me the problem is Vee's forehand breaks down when you force her to hit it from certain situations she is better with it on the run and with her sucky forehand technique why was the match with davenport decided by only one break of serve in each set. Tracy and the rest are not saying anything new and the fact is that Venus is working on her forehand technique why are they acting like it is something she is unaware of and hasn't been working on. Also who says she hasn't been getting fresh imput or won't get fresh imput at the end of the season. She is doing all she can to correct her technique I have seen Richard taking video of her and also he has been working on it with her during practice if Mary and company know what is wrong and want to help so much why don't they take Venus aside and tell her what the problem is she is doing all she can do I don't know what more they want from her.

Williams Rulez
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:14 PM
People are really amazing. I remember when Venus was dominating with that forehand it was those same losers such as Carillo,Austin and especialy Fernandez who would always say if you want to win pick on the Venus forehand. They expose the sisters weaknesses more than any other player. I really don't think that the rest of the tour were aware that the forehand side was Venus's biggest liability until these commentators kept repeating it over and over again. When the sisters were dominating you'll watch a match the questions would always be 'what can these players do to beat a Williams'? During the matches when Davenport was playing Venus during the summer I never heard once Mary Jo Fernandez say that Venus should move Lindsay around to beat her. They have exposed the sisters weaknesses constantly for everyone to exploit.They talk about Dementiava's poor serve but thats obvious to everyone. I didn't hear Mary Carillo say yesterday that Venus should move Lindsey from side to side. You guys don't recognize the blatant bias when it comes to the sisters.So? Can u deny that it is a weakness in Venus's game?? I just wish she'd just work on her forehand, it was just saddening to watch her lose because of it... Everyone is improving, Venus has to improve too...

Yes, Venus is still my absolute favourite, but I'm not oblivious to the fact tt there is A LOT of room for improvement...

FLL
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:17 PM
Now some of these post ARE STUPID.. People don't need commentator to realize which shot is the weskest. They are professional for heaven's sake!!

jean_genie
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:18 PM
I just read Tracy Austin's latest piece on MSNBC and she defends herself by saying she "likes" Venus and Serena and is disappointed that Richard felt the need to attack her personally for her "unbiased" commentary. Well, I suggest she go back and take a look at the tape of the Chanda/Venus match because the reason for all the outrage is that she and Ted went over the line. When you aren't commenting on the good as well as the bad, then something is up. They never even talked about how well Chanda was playing, just Venus sucks at this and Venus sucks at that and what a sloppy match it was.

I also think that she's feeling guilty because if not, then why the need to respond to Richard? Also, Richard is taking the heat with the press and the other commentators because he's always saying something outrageous and the press eats it up when he does. It's the same thing that no one gets--the press and the broadcasters treat Venus and Serena differently. Say what you want but it's true. Evidence is in the commentaries. Take a look at any Williams sisters match as far back as you can find and you'll hear the rumblings. Again, no one is saying that pointing out that Venus' forehand is her less confident shot is wrong, we're saying mapping out a strategy for her opponents is.

While I think that Richard is always at risk of being quoted for his outrageous statements and not the boring, routine ones, he still has the right to come to the defense of his children. And Venus and Serena are adults, they go to get coaching where they want. Maybe Venus will get outside help with her shots or maybe she's got something else in mind. We'll just have to wait and see. I just hope that Tracy will be more circumspect in her comments.

bandabou
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:27 PM
One thing people should start to do: Stop living in denial.....the williams sisters get treated differently by the commentators, by the press, by the crowd, by almost everybody..donīt keep living in denial.

Yeah, yeah...Tracy pointed the weakness Venus has.....now is she gonna ever point out the weaknesses of her beloved Maria, Kim, Justine, Jennifer?!

Janet
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:28 PM
LAW AND ORDER..............I'm with you, I wish people will just leave venus alone she can not please everybody................give the girl a break wish her will for the remain of the year and she will start fresh for 2005, you know this theme runs with every top sport althete if they are your favorite you will still keep on cheering them on even if they lose, so all the people say venus needs help on something it is a subjet the media shild stop with because it won't happen, the girl was winning with that forehand and people complain so much they want to see another winning know their is more different winner know and venus is in the losing chair and people still complain. good thing she does not read or listen to too much press this kind of negative talk can drive some one crazy.............good thing venus is a very smart girl!!

Williams Rulez
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:29 PM
Now some of these post ARE STUPID.. People don't need commentator to realize which shot is the weskest. They are professional for heaven's sake!!excatly! i wonder when pple will realise that that's what coaches are for...

tennischick
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:30 PM
congrats to Tracy's colleagues for supporting her. in a similar spirit Richard is supporting his daughter whom he perceived as being attacked. that's what friends and family do.

i disagree with lolo7 however: i have never heard any of the commentators EVER say that Venus had a good forehand. she has ALWAYS been criticised for this and for her pitiful second serve. what changed this week is that Tracy went on and on and on about it ad nauseam. she just wouldn't stop saying it. she said it even when others were playing -- when Venus wasn't even on the court! and it's not that she is wrong but her relentless, monotonous criticism became annoying, and clearly Richard flipped.

cheo23
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:38 PM
One thing people should start to do: Stop living in denial.....the williams sisters get treated differently by the commentators, by the press, by the crowd, by almost everybody..donīt keep living in denial.

Yeah, yeah...Tracy pointed the weakness Venus has.....now is she gonna ever point out the weaknesses of her beloved Maria, Kim, Justine, Jennifer?!
She does point out weaknesses with Maria, Kim, Justine & Jennifer..ON Maria she said that she struggles with bein erractic on Long rallies on hardcourts but her game is suited on grass..with Kimmie she chokes on big occassions & with Jennifer ..she said she had so many chances last year to win her semis. Justine's Form has been off compared to last YEAR! Give Tracy a BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the cat
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:48 PM
Tennis people have been criticising Venus' forhand and second serve fore years. Even when she was #1. And now that she's out of the top 10 the critics like Tracy Austin and Mary Carillo will point out her deficiencies more often than before because she loses more often than she used to. Everyone should like Venus as a person because she's as likable a person as I've seen in tennis. :) She seems like a wonderful person. :D But her game is stagnating and Austin bringing up the possibility that Venus should work with an experienced professional tennis coach isn't in my opinion some kind of attack on Venus and the Williams family.

tennischick
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:56 PM
i agree with you Cat. however i think Richard flipped bec Tracy just wouldn't stop saying it. altho' she was right, after a while my own reaction was "alright already! you made your point! next!" and i'm not even a Venus fan!

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:57 PM
i agree with you Cat. however i think Richard flipped bec Tracy just wouldn't stop saying it. altho' she was right, after a while my own reaction was "alright already! you made your point! next!" and i'm not even a Venus fan!

I think he finally had enough when she said that because they were never professional players, they may not have the capacity to fix their games. To me (and probably to Richard), she was attacking their intelligence and that was uncalled for.

jean_genie
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:58 PM
She does point out weaknesses with Maria, Kim, Justine & Jennifer..ON Maria she said that she struggles with bein erractic on Long rallies on hardcourts but her game is suited on grass..with Kimmie she chokes on big occassions & with Jennifer ..she said she had so many chances last year to win her semis. Justine's Form has been off compared to last YEAR! Give Tracy a BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's not fun is it? Tracy gets what she gave. I don't think I ever paid attention to whether or not she pointed out the weaknesses of the other players and I'm sure she has, thats what she should be doing in the booth. But Tennischick hit the nail on the head--Tracy went on and on about Venus' weaknesses even during matches when Venus wasn't anywhere near the stadium. When you go over the line, you get pushed back. That's whats happening here. Just once, I'd like to see/hear a commentator admit that they got carried away.

I don't know this for sure but I think Pam Shriver might have been asked by ESPN to scale back her relentless criticism of the Williams sisters earlier this year because after one particularly heinous session of bias, she seemed to either keep her mouth shut when Venus or Serena came up or she was much more balanced in her match calls. Broadcast commentator is a job just like any other and I'm sure that the executives who run the networks and watch the bottom lines, give performance reviews to their employees and when the station gets millions of angry emails, calls, letters, etc. over a particular employees comments, someone might say or do something. So the response to the Post article is Tracy's way of covering her butt--but it may or may not work. Depends on how many angry Venus fans make noise about what she said.

SJW
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:59 PM
"alright already! you made your point! next!"

...and this is my problem with Tracy Austin and Elise Burgin (Sky Sports American commentator...the low(er) rate version of Austin)

thelittlestelf
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:59 PM
If you watched Venus play against Mikaelan 1st round at '04 Wimby then you would notice that Venus does have a good forehand, it just needs to improve.

Knizzle
Sep 7th, 2004, 05:02 PM
Venus thinks too much when she's hitting her FH these days. Her technique is really the best it's ever been and she showed that during the clay season, but she got derailed by injury and I think she let it get in her head.

SJW
Sep 7th, 2004, 05:05 PM
she lost because Petrova played an amazing match. one commentator said "if you didn't know anything about tennis, you would think that Petrova was the number one player in the world, not Justine" because she played so well. i can't remember the last time Nadia played that well, in fact, i don't think i've seen her play like that ever, especially the second set. Justine hasn't been playing well all tournament, the difference being before, the opposition was playing worse than she was.

DemWilliamsGulls
Sep 7th, 2004, 05:06 PM
I agree she needs to work on her forehand cuz Venus is basically defeating herself..yesterday Lindsay was solid...but Venus gave her a lot of points....I was loving the way she played that last game...cuz she was bring back the old school play from which she and Serena was dominating...give her time folks...give her times...its only been one years she was off.

Knizzle
Sep 7th, 2004, 05:08 PM
she lost because Petrova played an amazing match. one commentator said "if you didn't know anything about tennis, you would think that Petrova was the number one player in the world, not Justine" because she played so well. i can't remember the last time Nadia played that well, in fact, i don't think i've seen her play like that ever, especially the second set. Justine hasn't been playing well all tournament, the difference being before, the opposition was playing worse than she was.I think it was a combination, Justine didn't seem to have any power behind her shots and did look tired, but Nadia barely missed a shot so even if Justine was 100% it might not have mattered cause Petrova was hitting great spots on the court with every shot. She served as well as I've ever seen her serve. If she can keep that up, she will be trouble for Davenport and even Serena.

the cat
Sep 7th, 2004, 05:14 PM
I don't think Tracy Austin meant any harm with her comments. She was speaking from a tennis perspective. She has always seemed to have alot of respect for Oracene and Richard and especially Oracene.

Maybe Tracy was to the point of overkill about Venus' forehand like TC said. But I don't think she meant to cause any harm or hurt feelings over her tennis related comments.

Maria Sharapova and her travelling coach of 2 years Maurecio Hadad have just gone their seperate ways. :( And Hadad was with Masha for all 4 of her titles including Wimbledon. But he's not working with maria anymore. That seems strange to me. But this is what happens in tennis. I hope Oracene and Richard remain and Venus's main coaches. But I also hope they hire a tennis coaching technician to work with Venus on certain aspects of her game. I hope Venus rebounds in 2005. She is a bright light in tennis and she should remain that way for a few more years. :)

GogoGirl
Sep 7th, 2004, 05:17 PM
Hey All,

Ok - who here doesn't believe that certain so-called experts have already talked to Venus about her forehand? Now - if a commentator comments on what is wrong w/Venus's technique on the forehand side - since 1997 - how could a new coach make her EXECUTE what she already knows?

Sir Richard taught the sisters well about techniques. It is up to them to execute it. Now - let's say Tracy works with Venus on her forehand - and she reinterates ova and ova what Venus should do - and Venus practices for hours on end - yet when it is match time - Venus doesn't execute it the way Tracy suggested - who's fault is it?

A coach can show - advise and the like - but they are not the one playing - so they can't get out there and hit the forehand for the player. Hitting the forehand - backhand - serve - slice - is up to the player to execute it. So my bottom line is - BJK - Mary C. - Martina N. - Chris E. nor Tracy A. - can hit the forehand for Venus - just like they can't hit the serve for Elena. It really is just that simple.

So again - Pops has shown and told Venus what to do - and we are sure others have also. The forehand is a shot that breaks down for many - and the same for the backhand. How many times did Justine's break down last night?

What irks the 'ell out of me is how some of Venus's fans can rant and rave about how her forehand sucks. Please find a fave where said fave has a better forehand and leave Venus alone.

Someone - please post all of the titles Venus has won in her career with that forehand. Surely - when she was winning and dominating - she was executing it better - so it is and NEVER has been a question of she isn't coached right on it - it is and has ALWAYS been about the fact that when she makes errors on that side - it is breaking down - because the correct execution is not there. Venus knows what to do - so she needs to execute it - and no one else can do it for her.

Four Grand Slam Singles' Titles
Four Grand Slam Doubles' Titles
Two Mixed Doubles' Titles
One Single & Doubles' Title (Olympics)
And is it 29 Singles Titles?
Five Straight Grand Slam Finals until Wimby 2003!

And all of these titles were won with Venus's so-called suckey - suckey now - forehand. Too much!

I agree with the ones that say realistically - commentators and pundits could find fault w/anyone's forehand/backhand/serve technique on any given point - game - set and match - and at any given tourney. And especially when a player loses a match. And a duh!

Just like back in 1997 when Venus made the US Open finals - Lordy - but was she cracked on. Venus just has to play herself back in form - and only SHE can execute what she already knows.

"I STILL BELIEVE IN YOU VENUS" "YOU'LL GET IT BACK TOGETHER GIRLFRIEND" "COME ON SERENA LET'S GO"

the cat
Sep 7th, 2004, 05:20 PM
Interesting points Gogo. And it is up to Venus and not her parents to execute her shots. But a new coaching voice might do Venus some good. Right?

tennischick
Sep 7th, 2004, 05:22 PM
sorry about the JuJu post. i really meant to start a whole new thread and it ended up in here by mistake.

i'm sure Tracy is just doing her job Cat and while i got sick of hearing the comments, i think it's a shame that she feels she has to almost apologise. this is what makes me confused about her intentions. if she was just being a professional then she has nothing to retract.

tennischick
Sep 7th, 2004, 05:28 PM
the problem Gogo is that she can no longer get away with it. in a similar vein, Serena used to make tons of UE's in each game. it didn't matter bec she would win anyway. now she knows she can no longer get away with that and she no longer makes as many UE's as she used to. in the same spirit, Venus got away with a sucky forehand and a pitiful second serve when the tour was less competitive. well guess what? the other chicks have stepped up -- so Venus has no choice but to improve on her weaknesses. there's no defending that. and bringing up her past successes bears no relevance to the CURRENT status of women's tennis.

the cat
Sep 7th, 2004, 05:34 PM
TC, I believe Tracy's intentions were from a tennis perspective. I doubt she meant to cause the Williams family any pain and maybe that's why she feels she has to almost apologize as you pointed out.

And the increased depth in women's tennis means that the top players won't have the easy paths to major finals like they used to.

GogoGirl
Sep 7th, 2004, 06:00 PM
All,

I hear y'all. But how was Venus able to win two clay court titles and make three finals if her forehand sucked so much at that time? And it was supposedly her worst surface according to some. She will get it back together. She just needs time.

Remember - the cat - that before Venus starting winning titles - she was villified - crucified and some more stuff over her forehand and second serve. It took her time to play herself into form. IMO - that is all she needs to do now. Someone please tell us how Venus was able to win all the titles she has w/that forehand - or was it someone else out there hitting it for her? No one can answer that one. And back then - many thought she would never get it together and win a slam. What happened? How was she able to do it?

ANSWER = SHE IMPROVED. And that is all she needs to do now.

My favorite tourney of all-time is Wimby 2000. When Venus beat Hingis in the quarters - I cried like a baby. When she beat Davey - I just smiled and clapped - because to me - she had gotten over a big hurdle by beating Martina. And shortly after that - folks started picking on Martina's serves and especially her second is true. Many of us to include me stated that when she improved her serve - she could contend for titles again. It was sad to see Martina quit the game - and I hope it was not because she felt she couldn't IMPROVE on anything she wanted to.

I mentioned a few weeks ago - that a player that has never beaten another player - should never stop trying to beat said player - because the women's tour is just so deep now. Petrova had never beaten Justine - and so on. Lindsay hadn't beaten Venus since 2000 until this summer - and so on. Lindsay is in better form that Venus is right now. There should be absolutely no shame in Venus's game - and in her mind. She has the right to find her form again.

Matter-of-fact - she played a third set tiebreaker against Lindsay this summer - so that match could have went either way. I honestly can't believe that some feel that Venus will never win titles again because of her forehand. I find it shortsighted and bias. Some said the same thing about her before she started winning titles and slams - and how soon do some forget indeed? Last Wimby 2003 - Venus made the finals hurt and what not. How did she do it with that flakey serve? And if some admit that Venus's forehand must have been passable back then when she made five straight finals - then why can't she IMPROVE? She just needs time.

We remember how Martina and Lindsay used to comment on the errors and the mistakes the sisters made - and we are hearing it again. I would respect Tracy more is she would just flat out say - "I don't like the way Venus hits her forehand", and I don't care if she wins a match with 30 winners on the forehand side." Yet - how ignorant would that sound?

And to the poster that wanted to know if I thought "a new voice" might help Venus - to that I say "No." I say that because Venus has heard other voices/peeps telling and suggesting to her what she should do. Venus is not stupid. She just needs to play herself back into form.

My last point is this. Surely Venus could watch a video showing her what to do on her forehand 24/7 - but it is still up to her to execute.