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lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:40 AM
From today's NY Post:


PAIN & GRIEF MAR VENUS' OPEN RUN
By MARC BERMAN

September 6, 2004 -- Venus Williams can talk all she wants about her injuries this year — the sprained wrist, the bum ankle.



Following her third-round win over Chanda Rubin late Saturday night at Ashe Stadium, Venus got emotional on the court, talking about finally feeling right, feeling "a lot more like I did before all the injuries."

But there's one wound that won't go away, one about which Venus is still reluctant to go into detail: The one-year anniversary of the shooting death of her half-sister, Yetunde Price, is coming up on Sept. 14.

Venus, who was closer to her older sister Yetunde than was the youngest Williams daughter, Serena, has never addressed the murder publicly.

When The Post asked 11th-seeded Venus about the significance of the anniversary, she said: "I talk about those things with close family and friends. I think it's inappropriate now."

But when asked if Yetunde is in her thoughts this week, Venus answered, "Always."

Today at the U.S. Open Round of 16 will be the seminal moment of Venus' comeback. Venus, who hasn't won a Grand Slam in three years, takes on the tour's hottest player, Lindsay Davenport. Venus has lost twice to Davenport this summer, including once in L.A. when she retired after her wrist pain flared.

Venus' father, Richard Williams, will discuss almost any subject but won't specifically address the effect of the family tragedy on his daughter's game. "It's too heartbreaking," he said. "It's the toughest thing in the world. Please don't even bring it up.

"If Venus wants to play, nobody can whup her," he added. "I don't care who it is. Nobody can beat Venus if she wants to play. But if Venus doesn't want to play and starts playing like she [did against Rubin], it will look like anyone would be in the wrong place, me or anyone else."

Williams was making reference to recent attacks by USA Network commentator Tracy Austin, who repeatedly criticized the Williams' parents for not hiring another tennis coach to work with their daughters' struggling forehands.

"I couldn't care what Tracy or anyone says," Papa Williams said. "When Venus and Serena were winning, there was something wrong. When they're losing, there's something wrong. Very honestly, it's a disgrace. I think it's a disgrace at how the system is against those two black girls. If they win, everything is wrong; if they lose, it's get rid of the parents. I just work for them. They've always wanted me around."

Papa Williams has long been a target for breaking tennis tradition, not having his girls play the junior USTA events, instead using marathon practice sessions on the cracked courts of Compton, Calif., to toughen them up.

Last week, Austin opined: "Both Williams sisters, their forehands break down. And their parents, Oracene and Richard, are not real tennis players, but have been their coaches — basically their only coaches — for the last five, six years. They've had plenty of hitting partners. But that's something I am starting to question.

"Why not go to a specialist if you have a little problem? Especially to me, when Venus and Serena are being coached by parents that didn't play the game."

Said Papa Williams: "When people try to break up unity between the family, it means they have a bad relationship with their family. It would be interesting to look at Tracy's family background. With statements like that, her family life must've been terrible."

Stamp Paid
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:44 AM
Richard, come on. A forehand coach will not break up any family unty.

At least now I know why V&S wont get outside coaching: They're either scared of what Richard will say or dont want the guilt that he will obviously place on them should they seek outside help. Ahhh....

moby
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:46 AM
I don't see the need to make personal attacks on tracy :rolleyes:
besides it is true that venus has problems with her forehand (and serena occasionally)
you know why the BOSS is no. 1?
besides her obvious talent, it is because she always seeks to improve her weaknesses, and she sure has come a long way

htm
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:46 AM
Thanks for posting that I just started a thrend about comments Tracy just made. He is so right on they love letting those girls name come out their mouths and with some sort of bullshit behind it. I never hear them say comments like that about Jen. Just shut the fuch up and do your job Tracey before you be replaced.

harloo
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:47 AM
Preach Richard!! Tracy needs to shut the hell up. :lol:

Ryan
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:47 AM
:rolleyes: I don't see how getting a professional to fix a flaw in Venus' forehand is earth shaking. And if Richard doesn't want Venus going for outside help, then he should FIX IT HIMSELF.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:47 AM
Richard, come on. A forehand coach will not break up any family unty.

At least now I know why V&S wont get outside coaching: They're either scared of what Richard will say or dont want the guilt that he will obviously place on them should they seek outside help. Ahhh....

I don't know if your second statement is true, but I do know this much. Apparently what Richard said bothered Tracy enough to bring it up tonight during the mixed doubles match. She said she laughed off what he said about her family, but if what he said was ridiculous, then why is ste still talking about it, along with Ted's dig in about Richard having the nerve to talk about family with his history.

cellophane
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:47 AM
How does Tracy hate on the WS? Is it just her opinion on them needing outside coaching? If so, why is that considered hateful? :confused: I don't get any coverage, so I'm in the dark, but what exactly is wrong with saying that in particular? :confused:

~Cherry*Blossom~
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:47 AM
:haha: Nice one Richard. I would love to hear what Tracy says in response. My guess is she will STFU about Venus and Serena! :lol:

LindsayRocks89
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:49 AM
u tell her richard :worship:

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:50 AM
:lol:

It would be interesting to look at Tracy's family background. With statements like that, her family life must've been terrible."

Clearly, Richard knows nothing about Austen's very close knit family. :)

thelittlestelf
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:50 AM
Lol Tracy said "Well I didn't expect him to personally attack me, but I think he's done a great job coaching his daughters, they just need someone to help with their forehands if they want to get back to #1, like I suggested for Hingis in 2001 when she was trying to improve her serve." (or something like that)

I must say, Tracy is right. To get back to the top, Venus and Serena need a coach other than their dad or mom to help with their forehands---particularly Venus.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:51 AM
:rolleyes: I don't see how getting a professional to fix a flaw in Venus' forehand is earth shaking. And if Richard doesn't want Venus going for outside help, then he should FIX IT HIMSELF.

That wasn't what he had a problem with. He (and I) have a problem with the fact that she always bring up the fact that Richard and Oracene were never professional tennis players and may not have what it takes to fix Venus' forehand. All I know is that Stefano Capriati didn't play poressional tennis and no one has ciritcized him on the flaws in Jennifer's game (like her serve).

harloo
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:51 AM
My problem with the negativity is that Tracy and the others don't do this bullshit to the other players. They get so negative even when Venus or Serena plays it's ridiculous. Tracy needs to shut the fuck up. I don't mind her analyzing the sister's game, but most of the time what is said behind the commentating booth when the sisters are playing is outright negativity.

Jen has not won a slam in years. I have not heard one negative thing about that at all. As a matter of fact the commentators bend over backwards to pump Jen up during her matches.

LindsayRocks89
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:51 AM
tracy mentioned it tonight during the mixed dubs match and i don't remember exactly what she said but she did mention what richard said and she ended it off with she didn't have a bad childhood and she said while sorta laughing her parents didn't beat her

moby
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:51 AM
:rolleyes: I don't see how getting a professional to fix a flaw in Venus' forehand is earth shaking. And if Richard doesn't want Venus going for outside help, then he should FIX IT HIMSELF.
exactly. what HAS he done for venus' forehand
clearly nothing
btw for those who are interested, venus' forehand is her weaker wing because she started with a western grip (it was natural for her), but since she wasn't able to hit through it as much she got it changed to a semi-western a few years later. so the hitch you see, might actually be her combining the 2 different swings into one?!

Rocketta
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:52 AM
I wondered why Tracy was trying to explain herself tonight? :lol:

hmm, no wonder....I guess it's not fun when someone else just runs off at the mouth about you? ;)

Martian Willow
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:52 AM
http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=132002

:)

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:52 AM
Richard is correct when he talks about something always being wrong in good and bad times. If the Sisters are winning, something is wrong and if they are losing something is wrong. Regarding the parents as coaches, it's a flip the script and coin situation. At times it's given respect and praise and others stripped apart. Whatever the true reason for the downtime in the Williams Sisters triumphant reign, I hope it's fixed soon so all this talk is just a memory.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:53 AM
:lol:

It would be interesting to look at Tracy's family background. With statements like that, her family life must've been terrible."

Clearly, Richard knows nothing about Austen's very close knit family. :)

I'll admit that he was off base with that comment, but she has no business always pointing out the fact that he and Oracene were never professional players and may not have the capacity to change Venus' or Serena's game. All I know is that both have mroe GS singles titles than her and Serena has completed the career Grand Slam.

htm
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:53 AM
:lol:

It would be interesting to look at Tracy's family background. With statements like that, her family life must've been terrible."

Clearly, Richard knows nothing about Austen's very close knit family. :)

How in the hell does she know anything about his family except what they read in papers.

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:53 AM
I wondered why Tracy was trying to explain herself tonight? :lol:

hmm, no wonder....I guess it's not fun when someone else just runs off at the mouth about you? ;)
What did she say?

GogoGirl
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:53 AM
Hey All,

How many times must it be stressed that venus has won 4 grand slam titles - 29 single titles - the Olympic gold medal in singles and doubles - numerous double titles, and she was in five straight grand slam finals thru Wimby 2003 - with her parents being her coaches? Some folks need to get a grip - get real - get over it - and get a life.

We heard all this BS before the sisters started winning and even after. Some folks need to move on and let the sisters alone. The sisters are RICH - and don't have to work another day in their lives - so who should be credited for their success if not their parents. Some folks are jealous also of the fame and fortune these young ladies have gained with their parents as their coaches.

My mouth fell open last night when I heard Tracey open her trap and let that crap spew out. I knew she would be called on it - for she had her nerve.

Again - Venus was in FIVE straight finals, and lost the last four to her sister - and all that - w/that sorry azz forehand, and w/her parents acting as coaches. How did she do it?

Greenout
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:54 AM
Richard is correct when he talks about something always being wrong in good and bad times. If the Sisters are winning, something is wrong and if they are losing something is wrong. Regarding the parents as coaches, it's a flip the script and coin situation. At times it's given respect and praise and others stripped apart. Whatever the true reason for the downtime in the Williams Sisters triumphant reign, I hope it's fixed soon so all this talk is just a memory.

Sorry, it's true. Same pattern every year. When things are
great Richard's genius. When things are not great he's an
amateur.

~ The Leopard ~
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:55 AM
Tracey seems to have offered a reasonable opinion on a tennis issue, which is her job, and Richard has responded with an angry personal attack.

Tracey may, indeed, be intimidated into shutting up, but why is that good for the game, her audience, or even Venus?

I actually wanted Venus to win the match against Lindsay. I'd love to see Vee doing a bit better than she is right now. But she does need to fix her problems.

harloo
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:55 AM
Richard is correct when he talks about something always being wrong in good and bad times. If the Sisters are winning, something is wrong and if they are losing something is wrong. Regarding the parents as coaches, it's a flip the script and coin situation. At times it's given respect and praise and others stripped apart. Whatever the true reason for the downtime in the Williams Sisters triumphant reign, I hope it's fixed soon so all this talk is just a memory.
Exactly. Richard is speaking the truth because when the sister's were winning they were destroying the game. Now they are losing and every little thing is being questioned.

God, I would hate to see what happens when they start winning again.:lol:

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:55 AM
I wondered why Tracy was trying to explain herself tonight? :lol:

hmm, no wonder....I guess it's not fun when someone else just runs off at the mouth about you? ;)

I's called the truth hurts.

htm
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:57 AM
I'll admit that he was off base with that comment, but she has no business always pointing out the fact that he and Oracene were never professional players and may not have the capacity to change Venus' or Serena's game. All I know is that both have mroe GS singles titles than her and Serena has completed the career Grand Slam.


Richard and Oracene did something right they are both parents of grandslam champions. They may not be professionals coaches, but they got results most prfessional coaches would have. I'll I'm saying, is it all that hard for white folks to give black folks a little credit without feeling like your not the bossman.

Martian Willow
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:57 AM
http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=132002

:)

"This says that it is time for Yuri to stand back and let his daughter bloom. He states that Maria looks to Yuri for encouragement/instruction too often in a match, and she needs to be more independent on court."

:)

harloo
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:57 AM
Tracey seems to have offered a reasonable opinion on a tennis issue, which is her job, and Richard has responded with an angry personal attack.

Tracey may, indeed, be intimidated into shutting up, but why is that good for the game, her audience, or even Venus?

I actually wanted Venus to win the match against Lindsay. I'd love to see Vee doing a bit better than she is right now. But she does need to fix her problems.Reasonable? Maybe you have not watched the Chanda Rubin match and heard Tracy and Ted in action, they were pretty horrible. It was not constructive criticism, but outright haterism.

usatennis1
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:57 AM
Richard needs to listen, he has not been able to fix the problem so far. It was a suggestion and his response is way over the top.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:58 AM
Tracey seems to have offered a reasonable opinion on a tennis issue, which is her job, and Richard has responded with an angry personal attack.

Tracey may, indeed, be intimidated into shutting up, but why is that good for the game, her audience, or even Venus?

I actually wanted Venus to win the match against Lindsay. I'd love to see Vee doing a bit better than she is right now. But she does need to fix her problems.

First, issue one. We (and Richard) didn't have a problem with what she said about Venus' forehand; it was with what she said about he and Oracene as coaches and that was a personal attack no matter how you slice it.

She's still talking about it, so she must not be intimidated that much.:rolleyes:

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:00 AM
How in the hell does she know anything about his family except what they read in papers.
Tracy didn't express any opinon about Venus's family. She only said that perhaps Venus should consult a forehand specialist.... or a serving specialist. Tracy didn't even say she shouldn't continue to be coached by her parents.

I don't think that is grounds for saying that Tracy's family must be "terrible." Anyway, Tracy's family is well known in the tennis world. She's the youngest of many siblings who played tennis and her parents were active in tennis for a long time before she turned professional. Richard should be embarassed for having said such a ridiculous thing in the face of small provocation.

It's hilarious that he is so defensive that he can charge that Tracy's suggestion Venus look for outside help is "breaking up the family." Of course, with that attitude from Richard, it's certain that Venus would have a very difficult time looking for outside help if that is what she wanted to do.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:01 AM
Richard needs to listen, he has not been able to fix the problem so far. It was a suggestion and his response is way over the top.

It's not the suggesting about fixing the forehand is the problem; how would you feel if someone outright said that because you never played professional tennis, you may not have the capacity to fix your daughter's game?

Rocketta
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:01 AM
What did she say?
She was just non-stop with the "aura" is gone, no one is scared of them anymore to "her parents can't help her with her forehand, she needs to get a 'real' coach to change her technique"..

Here's what people aren't getting by saying he doesn't have the skill to change or help his daughter's forehand is insulting him and clearly he was insulted which is why he lashed out at Tracy....

She really was annoying during that match.. I know she annoyed me greatly.

tennischick
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:02 AM
i think Tracy kinda brought this on herself by repeating the criticism too often. she didn't say anything that most of us haven't already discussed on this board, but she kept saying it and saying it. and by repeating ad nauseam that Venus needs another coach, whether she intended it or not, she was taking a dig at Richard. understandably he got defensive.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:02 AM
Tracy didn't express any opinon about Venus's family. She only said that perhaps Venus should consult a forehand specialist.... or a serving specialist. Tracy didn't even say she shouldn't continue to be coached by her parents.

I don't think that is grounds for saying that Tracy's family must be "terrible." Anyway, Tracy's family is well known in the tennis world. She's the youngest of many siblings who played tennis and her parents were active in tennis for a long time before she turned professional. Richard should be embarassed for having said such a ridiculous thing in the face of small provocation.

It's hilarious that he is so defensive that he can charge that Tracy's suggestion Venus look for outside help is "breaking up the family." Of course, with that attitude from Richard, it's certain that Venus would have a very difficult time looking for outside help if that is what she wanted to do.

Are you retarded?

His problem with her statement wasn't suggesting Venus should hire another coach.

Martian Willow
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:03 AM
...perhaps Venus could employ Yuri Sharapov, if he becomes available... :)

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:04 AM
She was just non-stop with the "aura" is gone, no one is scared of them anymore to "her parents can't help her with her forehand, she needs to get a 'real' coach to change her technique"..

Here's what people aren't getting by saying he doesn't have the skill to change or help his daughter's forehand is insulting him and clearly he was insulted which is why he lashed out at Tracy....

She really was annoying during that match.. I know she annoyed me greatly.
Oh so her usual stuff, okay. Well at least she's consistent.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:04 AM
She was just non-stop with the "aura" is gone, no one is scared of them anymore to "her parents can't help her with her forehand, she needs to get a 'real' coach to change her technique"..

Here's what people aren't getting by saying he doesn't have the skill to change or help his daughter's forehand is insulting him and clearly he was insulted which is why he lashed out at Tracy....

She really was annoying during that match.. I know she annoyed me greatly.

You are about the only person in this thread that does.:kiss:

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:04 AM
Reasonable? Maybe you have not watched the Chanda Rubin match and heard Tracy and Ted in action, they were pretty horrible. It was not constructive criticism, but outright haterism.
:lol: :lol:

I listened to the match and believe me it was no more than Tracy did to Hingis or than what Pam Shriver did to Hingis. They tore into Hingis and her mother without mercy. You just didn't notice because it wasn't your player who was getting slagged. You notice that even now, Tracy keeps bringing up how she advised Hingis to get a coach for her serve.

And...... is "haterism" even a word? What the heck does that mean?

ZAK
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:05 AM
Are you retarded?

His problem with her statement wasn't suggesting Venus should hire another coach.
Why did Richard feel the need to take a stab at Tracy's family life though? Tracy certainly hasn't criticized the Williams' family life

Martian Willow
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:05 AM
Here's what people aren't getting by saying he doesn't have the skill to change or help his daughter's forehand is insulting him and clearly he was insulted which is why he lashed out at Tracy....

...as lizchris says...the truth hurts... :)

Rocketta
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:06 AM
i think Tracy kinda brought this on herself by repeating the criticism too often. she didn't say anything that most of us haven't already discussed on this board, but she kept saying it and saying it. and by repeating ad nauseam that Venus needs another coach, whether she intended it or not, she was taking a dig at Richard. understandably he got defensive.
She was a broken record...:tears:

maybe now she'll do some work before a match and find more things to talk about instead of the same old same old criticisms? :(

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:07 AM
Are you retarded?

His problem with her statement wasn't suggesting Venus should hire another coach.
Yes. I'm quite retarded. Are you incapable of civil discourse?

Stamp Paid
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:07 AM
...perhaps Venus could employ Yuri Sharapov, if he becomes available... :)
Somebody please, give Willow attention. Shes posted three times w/ no replies.

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:08 AM
She was a broken record...:tears:

maybe now she'll do some work before a match and find more things to talk about instead of the same old same old criticisms? :(
ho hum. I didn't hear any of you complaining when Tracy used to go on and on and on about Hingis and what was wrong with her game and her mother as her coach.

harloo
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:08 AM
:lol: :lol:

I listened to the match and believe me it was no more than Tracy did to Hingis or than what Pam Shriver did to Hingis. They tore into Hingis and her mother without mercy. You just didn't notice because it wasn't your player who was getting slagged. You notice that even now, Tracy keeps bringing up how she advised Hingis to get a coach for her serve.

And...... is "haterism" even a word? What the heck does that mean?
I did notice it when Hingis was on the decline, but it was not this bad. I remember Shriver saying that the Williams drove Hingis into retirement.

Of course,"haterism" is a word. Mary J Blige said it best, "Don't need no hateration, holleration, in this dancerie". ROTF!!! :lol: :wavey:

*roddicksinme*
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:08 AM
Richard...foolish as always

harloo
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:09 AM
Somebody please, give Willow attention. Shes posted three times w/ no replies.
:lol:

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:09 AM
ho hum. I didn't hear any of you complaining when Tracy used to go on and on and on about Hingis and what was wrong with her game and her mother as her coach.
If one isn't a Hingis fan or remotely concerned with anything Hingis, why should there be an outrage? Are we taking up a petition now?

JenDavenportfan
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:10 AM
Richard Williams is a stupid uneducated hacker Tracy is right they need real coaches! Otherwise as well they need for tennis not to be just a hobby & to make a real committment to tennis! Go Jen & Davenport!:)

Martian Willow
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:10 AM
Somebody please, give Willow attention. Shes posted three times w/ no replies.

...thank you...I thought I made reelly good point... :crying2:

marty jones
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:10 AM
question: how much does venus practice?

i'm guessing she doesn't practice as often as most....i don't think it's richards fault that her forehand sucks, i just think she needs more practice. :)

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:10 AM
I did notice it when Hingis was on the decline, but it was not this bad. I remember Shriver saying that the Williams drove Hingis into retirement.

Of course,"haterism" is a word. Mary J Blige said it best, "Don't need no hateration, holleration, in this dancerie". ROTF!!! :lol: :wavey:
Excuse me for not recognizing Mary J. Blige as Websters Dictionary. :lol:

You didn't think it was this bad because Hingis wasn't your favorite. That's the only reason you think it is different. Believe me there were many times when I just put Austen and Shriver on mute because they just kept on repeating the same crap over and over and over. It's a little different when the shoe is on YOUR foot.

htm
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:11 AM
Reasonable? Maybe you have not watched the Chanda Rubin match and heard Tracy and Ted in action, they were pretty horrible. It was not constructive criticism, but outright haterism.


They were dogging Venus that night which made me think it was something personal against her. I was thinking to myself Venus is a little to quiet she needs to speakout more about people who make personal attacks against her she need to get getto :fiery:, and shut some of these people up. For goodness sake Venus, be more like Jenn standup for yourself. Stop being such a F_ _king lady.

GogoGirl
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:12 AM
All,

Of course - Tracy can open up her trap and say what she likes - just like Mr. Williams can.

Of course - we fans want to see Venus win. But she can't win them all - and she lost to a great and hot player.

Lastly - why is it that only Venus or Serena are scrutinized to the point where every aspect of their game in on TRIAL? And it is stupid to go on about it - because they have excelled in the sport w/said parents as their coaches.

For every player that loses - check out the errors that were made and break them down. Were the errors on the forehand side? Were they on the backhand side? What is wrong with all the players that have lost up to now? Do they need a coach for this or that - in order to fix this or that - and in order that they win 4 and 6 grand slam titles and numerous others? Puleeeze!

By now these pundits need to learn that they sound sickeening when they attack the sisters' games - but don't bother to critique the other players' games to the point where those said players need new coaches.

Anyway - the sisters are rich behind everything their parents taught them - and Tracy can't do anything about that - but deal with it. See IMO - it is not that she truly cares about Venus & Serena and whether they win or not - or fix this or that or not. Is that why she is suggesting that they find a new coach for this or that - because they aren't winning anymore? Does she really want to see them win more - and especially Venus? That can't be it - because she wants Lindsay to win - and anyone else but the sisters. So doesn't she see how ridiculous she sounds for piping up about this subject - when she knows she could care less about them?

What is Tracy's motive for criticizing Venus - and especially once she remembers and takes into account how WELL Venus has done w/her parents as her coaches. Has Venus surpassed Ms. Austin as it pertains to their respective tennis careers? Nuff said!

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:12 AM
If one isn't a Hingis fan or remotely concerned with anything Hingis, why should there be an outrage? Are we taking up a petition now? Oh, now it is unfair criticism, but before it was only clear commentary. That's my only point. Austen has done the same thing in just as irritating a manner throughout her career as a commentator. It's only that now Williams fans notice it because it is happening to their favorites. It is simply funny to see the worm turn. :)

Deira
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:13 AM
And even at the end of the match she didn't let up. Even after Venus had beat Chanda ... at the last moment ... she had to bring up Venus' unforced errors. I think Venus remarks in her on-court interview about her ordeal and injuries really made Tracy look like a stomp down hater. Just think what the casual tennis viewer was thinking. Some of them probably didn't even know Venus was injured most of the year. Thank goodness she didn't call the Venus vs Davenport match.

Rocketta
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:13 AM
ho hum. I didn't hear any of you complaining when Tracy used to go on and on and on about Hingis and what was wrong with her game and her mother as her coach.why would I complain about anything done to Hingis?

One, I'm not watching a Hingis match unless she's playing a fav of mine and two I don't give a rats ass about Hingis/

If Hingis fans are too complacent or too nice to complain that's their right or if Hingis and her mother are too "nice" or whatever to call someone on their shit that's their right.

Richard was wrong to hint about someone's family life but Tracy needs to see that she's a negative bitty and needs to get a new act. It was also a perfect example to show her how much running your mouth off can hurt someone's feelings maybe now she'll think before she decides to be a broken record.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:14 AM
Richard Williams is a stupid uneducated hacker Tracy is right they need real coaches! Otherwise as well they need for tennis not to be just a hobby & to make a real committment to tennis! Go Jen & Davenport!:)

If he is stupid, then I would like him for a coach because for all of Stefano's smarts, he couldn't keep his kid out of trouble or coach her to win Wimbledon or the USO.

htm
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:15 AM
Somebody please, give Willow attention. Shes posted three times w/ no replies.


Who in the Hell is Willow, is she that dike girl :lol: :lol: :lol:

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:17 AM
Why did Richard feel the need to take a stab at Tracy's family life though? Tracy certainly hasn't criticized the Williams' family life

I already sid that that comment was out of line.

She didn't criticized their life; just their intelligence, which is just as insulting.

Justin
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:17 AM
From today's NY Post:




"I couldn't care what Tracy or anyone says," Papa Williams said. "When Venus and Serena were winning, there was something wrong. When they're losing, there's something wrong. Very honestly, it's a disgrace. I think it's a disgrace at how the system is against those two black girls.

Riiiiiiight. 'Cause Tracy never said this about Hingis ad nauseum; supplement the full-time parent coach with a part-time coach targeting a specific area. :rolleyes:

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:17 AM
Well, let me be more explicit, Rocketta, since evidently I wasn't before.

Tracy Austen has always been like this, and she's been like this with a lot of players. Now that it is your favorites turn, I am just laughing because a lot of you were right with her when she was slagging other players ruthlessly. All of a sudden now that she's criticsizing the Williams sisters, she's a big mouth and somebody who needs to be put in her place.

Oh yeah..... and someone who needs to be intimidated so she will shut up and not say anything negative about the Williams sisters.

I'm just saying that you are howling now that the the shoe is on your foot and I think it's pretty funny.

harloo
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:18 AM
And even at the end of the match she didn't let up. Even after Venus had beat Chanda ... at the last moment ... she had to bring up Venus' unforced errors. I think Venus remarks in her on-court interview about her ordeal and injuries really made Tracy look like a stomp down hater. Just think what the casual tennis viewer was thinking. Some of them probably didn't even know Venus was injured most of the year. Thank goodness she didn't call the Venus vs Davenport match.
Don't worry Deira, Manly Mary was their to take her place. I have to admitt she was not as bad as Tracy, but let's just say she was very negative also.

The suprising thing is that John McEnroe was a breathe of fresh air during this match.

JenDavenportfan
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:18 AM
Well Jenn is ranked her than Venus or Serena & Richard cries racism everytime anyone has an opinion contrary to his warped thinking yes Venus & Serena were both #1 & won slams but will they ever do that again at this rate? ...Go Jenn!...Go Davenport keep kicking the sister's butts!:) :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :worship: :worship: :worship: :) :)

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:19 AM
I already sid that that comment was out of line.

She didn't criticized their life; just their intelligence, which is just as insulting.
When did she criticize the Williams intelligence?

Rocketta
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:19 AM
wait so now Williams fans, the William sisters and Richard shouldn't be offended by Tracy because Hingis and her people let her run her mouth? :unsure:

Ah, I don't think so...;)

jbone_0307
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:20 AM
Very childish response from Richard. I dont see anything wrong with Tracy's comment about possibly hiring a coach for Venus, I mean its for the improvement of her game right?? If Venus wants to continue to suck, then she can go on. As you can see, Jennifer ventured off into hiring about 10 different coaches in like a week, Im not saying it improved her results. Also, Its up to them, last I heard they were adults.

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:20 AM
Oh, now it is unfair criticism, but before it was only clear commentary. That's my only point. Austen has done the same thing in just as irritating a manner throughout her career as a commentator. It's only that now Williams fans notice it because it is happening to their favorites. It is simply funny to see the worm turn. :)
Um, again, if I'm not a Hingis fan, why should I care what's said about her? I'm not seeing why I should. I care about Venus and Serena and that's where I concentrate the bulk of my attention. That in itself doesn't mean what Tracy said about Hingis was right, wrong, fair or unfair. It says I care about Venus and Serena.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:20 AM
Well Jenn is ranked her than Venus or Serena & Richard cries racism everytime anyone has an opinion contrary to his warped thinking yes Venus & Serena were both #1 & won slams but will they ever do that again at this rate? ...Go Jenn!...Go Davenport keep kicking the sister's butts!:) :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :worship: :worship: :worship: :) :)

If Serena wins tomorrow, she will be ranked ahead of Jennifer.

harloo
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:22 AM
wait so now Williams fans, the William sisters and Richard shouldn't be offended by Tracy because Hingis and her people let her run her mouth? :unsure:

Ah, I don't think so...;)
Yes that's the idea!! Hingis fans endured it, so now all Williams fans must do so.

Whatever!!:rolleyes:

Why is Hingis even being discussed?:rolleyes:

Rocketta
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:23 AM
Well, let me be more explicit, Rocketta, since evidently I wasn't before.

Tracy Austen has always been like this, and she's been like this with a lot of players. Now that it is your favorites turn, I am just laughing because a lot of you were right with her when she was slagging other players ruthlessly. All of a sudden now that she's criticsizing the Williams sisters, she's a big mouth and somebody who needs to be put in her place.

Oh yeah..... and someone who needs to be intimidated so she will shut up and not say anything negative about the Williams sisters.

I'm just saying that you are howling now that the the shoe is on your foot and I think it's pretty funny.I don't know a Williams fan who loved Tracy? :scratch:

You'll have to be more specific because the only announcer I kind of liked was Pam and that's because I think she can get a good joke in on occassion.

You have a lot of generalization in your post that certainly can not be proven. It's not up to a Williams fan to say what's offensive for Hingis, her mother or her fans. How would we know most of us don't even like Hingis?

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:23 AM
When did she criticize the Williams intelligence?
By saying that because Richard and Oracene were never professional players, that they didn't have the capacity of a regular coach to fix the sisters' flaws in their games.

In 1999, she also questioned whether Serena had the mental toughness to beat a Hingis (which we all know she did).

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:24 AM
question: how much does venus practice?

i'm guessing she doesn't practice as often as most....i don't think it's richards fault that her forehand sucks, i just think she needs more practice. :)
Not as much as Serena.

mykarma
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:25 AM
She was just non-stop with the "aura" is gone, no one is scared of them anymore to "her parents can't help her with her forehand, she needs to get a 'real' coach to change her technique"..

Here's what people aren't getting by saying he doesn't have the skill to change or help his daughter's forehand is insulting him and clearly he was insulted which is why he lashed out at Tracy....

She really was annoying during that match.. I know she annoyed me greatly.I get sick of her saying the same crap over, and over, again. She is so annoying that when she's on, half the time I watch the match with the tv on on mute.

Whose to say if Venus gets another coach she'll do any better. Richard could be right in saying when Venus is ready to play, no one will be able to beat her. He's generally right when it comes to knowing his daughters.

Stamp Paid
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:25 AM
SO if Venus or Serena reads this article, it basically says: Getting outside help is a slight to our family unity. I would like to know why Richard feels so threatened that he speaks to a paper about Tracy Austin's comments. His family life hasnt been the best, and its not like Tracy said, "He beat your mom girls, get away from him fast." http://wtaworld.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif Thats a threat to their "family unity"

I agree she went too damn far to the point of insulting Richard and Oracene's ability to coach their daughters, because shes never in a practice session and she has no idea what Richard teaches Venus, but I don't like Richard's "family unity" rant. Its obvious that he would be insulted if Venus got a forehand helper/coach/whatever, thus, he is holding her back from her potential forever.

htm
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:27 AM
Well Jenn is ranked her than Venus or Serena & Richard cries racism everytime anyone has an opinion contrary to his warped thinking yes Venus & Serena were both #1 & won slams but will they ever do that again at this rate? ...Go Jenn!...Go Davenport keep kicking the sister's butts!:) :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :worship: :worship: :worship: :) :)


Nobody said anything about racism you started that so don't call yourself out, and by the way Lindsay and Jenn are on their way out trust me, so find another favorite.

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:27 AM
Yes that's the idea!! Hingis fans endured it, so now all Williams fans must do so.

Whatever!!:rolleyes:

Why is Hingis even being discussed?:rolleyes:
Because Richard Williams said that people were being unfair to "these black girls."

And because you and others were intimating that Tracy's remarks were personal to the Williams sisters.

Other's including myself have been pointing out that there is no "haterism" or any other kind of "ism" going on here but simply business as usual for Tracy Austen.

I think that the Williams fans are finding out what the Hingis fans learned sometime ago.... It all fun on the way up....... but being at the top is a little more difficult.... and when things start to slide.... it gets very difficult indeed. There is criticism from all sides.

You act like this is something brand new and never happened to any player before. But it's happened plenty.

mishar
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:27 AM
Tracy wasn't saying anything negative about Venus and Serena. I'm a great fan of theirs but they are having huge technical problems and I wish they would fix them. I don't know if it's that they're too busy with other activities or that they need better coaching -- perhaps there are other reasons -- but I don't think those are terrible awful things to suggest for an analyst.

GBFH
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:28 AM
I don't know a Williams fan who loved Tracy? :scratch:

You'll have to be more specific because the only announcer I kind of liked was Pam and that's because I think she can get a good joke in on occassion.

You have a lot of generalization in your post that certainly can not be proven. It's not up to a Williams fan's job to say what's offensive for Hingis, her mother or her fans. How would we know most of us don't even like Hingis?
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.........that's not what she's saying at all.

she said austin was spouting off the same exact crap about hingis as what she's said about venus. are you trying to say that it's alright for austin to have criticized hingis' mom but she can't do that to venus' dad?

cheesestix
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:28 AM
Of course,"haterism" is a word. Mary J Blige said it best, "Don't need no hateration, holleration, in this dancerie". ROTF!!! :lol: :wavey:

So she said "hateration". But where does Mary J Blige say "haterism"? :confused:

harloo
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:30 AM
SO if Venus or Serena reads this article, it basically says: Getting outside help is a slight to our family unity. I would like to know why Richard feels so threatened that he speaks to a paper about Tracy Austin's comments. His family life hasnt been the best, and its not like Tracy said, "He beat your mom girls, get away from him fast." http://wtaworld.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif Thats a threat to their "family unity"

I agree she went too damn far to the point of insulting Richard and Oracene's ability to coach their daughters, because shes never in a practice session and she has no idea what Richard teaches Venus, but I don't like Richard's "family unity" rant. Its obvious that he would be insulted if Venus got a forehand helper/coach/whatever, thus, he is holding her back from her potential forever.

No Richard would not be insulted. He leaves those decisions up to his daughters. Serena has went to get help at the Bolleteri academy before winning US Open 2002.

Both Venus and Serena have trained with different coaches early on in their career. Richard has basically gotten them multiple slams so he must know what he is doing.

I don't feel sorry for Tracy at all. She can either stop insulting Venus behind the booth or continue to be criticized. Her comments goes far beyond constructive criticism and anyone who think it does not are seriously in denial.

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:30 AM
So she said "hateration". But where does Mary J Blige say "haterism"? :confused:
:lol:

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:31 AM
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.........that's not what she's saying at all.

she said austin was spouting off the same exact crap about hingis as what she's said about venus. are you trying to say that it's alright for austin to have criticized hingis' mom but she can't do that to venus' dad?
LOL, where was it pointed out that it was okay to put down hingis' mom? What does Hingis even have to do with Venus and Serena?

Hingis being put into this convo obviously was used to negate any criticism the Williams' are getting.

cheesestix
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:32 AM
wait so now Williams fans, the William sisters and Richard shouldn't be offended by Tracy because Hingis and her people let her run her mouth? :unsure:

Ah, I don't think so...;)

I think the point of someone mentioning Hingis was to point out that the anti-Williams comments are not about them being black....as the "Richard Strikes Black" title seems to imply...although I don't really understand the "pun" :confused: But I'm pretty sure that I've heard people call Tracy a racist before.

Black Mamba.
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:32 AM
I'm really heated about this same crap so I guess this is as good a time as any to vent. First of all, commentators like Mary C, Pam Shriver, Tracy Austin, and others unnecessarly take shots at the sisters when they have never taken shots at those people. As Richard said they were attacking them when they were winning openly hoping they lost, now that they struggle these same phony folks talk about how they need new coaches or they question their dedication to the game. Last time I checked you don't fire coaches when under them you win multiple grandslams, olympic medals, and thanks to them both you and your sister are the two highest paid female athletes ever, if coaches were held to this standard most of the coaches of top 10 players would get fired. I could understand some of this stuff if Vee or Serena acted like they were above the game, but they have shown nothing but respect to the game and its' great players even though some of those players don't show any respect to them in return. Unlike most tennis parents Richard and Oracene have never put so much pressure on Vee and Serena that they resent their parents, like most tennis players eventually do.

harloo
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:33 AM
So she said "hateration". But where does Mary J Blige say "haterism"? :confused:
Oh, you will never ever get it. Why don't you talk about the issues at hand, because both you and starr and out of the loop when it comes to pop culture.:lol: :wavey:

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:34 AM
I think the point of someone mentioning Hingis was to point out that the anti-Williams comments are not about them being black....as the "Richard Strikes Black" title seems to imply...although I don't really understand the "pun" :confused: But I'm pretty sure that I've heard people call Tracy a racist before.
Doubt it. All I'm reading is that Hingis and her mom got the same treatment and that Williams fans should take it because Hingis fans went through it.

cheesestix
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:34 AM
Nobody said anything about racism you started that so don't call yourself out, and by the way Lindsay and Jenn are on their way out trust me, so find another favorite.

So what did Richard mean by "these black girls"? :rolleyes:

Rocketta
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:34 AM
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.........that's not what she's saying at all.

she said austin was spouting off the same exact crap about hingis as what she's said about venus. are you trying to say that it's alright for austin to have criticized hingis' mom but she can't do that to venus' dad?
did you read my other posts?

I said how am I suppose to know what's offensive to Hingis, her fans and her mom? I dont' like her. I didn't watch all her matches unless she was playing a fav of mine?

I also said just because they were too nice or not offended by it to say anything doesn't mean no one else should?

So I'm saying, I don't have an opinon about Tracy and Hingis cause I DONT CARE ABOUT HINGIS....I was not watching her matches and paying attention to what was said about her good or bad. I wasn't on here saying what they said about Hingis to be truth because I DONT CARE ABOUT HINGIS.

I dont' think I can say it any more plain than that. This thread is not about Hingis...Its about whether Tracy went overboard in the last match with Venus. I think she did. Other people think she did. Richard thinks she did. We've all voiced our opinion about it. Some nicely some wrongly either way hopefully she sees the effects of running off at the mouth..

Sportfan
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:34 AM
I don't see how anything Richard said was false he is absolutely right when Venus and Serena are winning it is they are dominating too much when they are losing the problem is now their parents and them needing new coaches. Tracey just needs to respect that Venus and Serena want their parents around and if she doesn't understand that tough luck they are a family and they stick together. Fact is if Tracey were really on the ball she would be talking about how much Venus is working on her forehand every practice. They know it is a problem and they are trying to fix it but it doesn't happen over night so if Tracey wants to be helpful she could just let them work on it in peace and if she wants to talk about something talk about how aware they are of the problem. Venus just needs to remain healthy and to keep on working like she has been doing and sooner or later those close points that she has been losing will go her way. Good luck to Vee for the rest of the season keep your head up and fight through this tough time.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:35 AM
I think the point of someone mentioning Hingis was to point out that the anti-Williams comments are not about them being black....as the "Richard Strikes Black" title seems to imply...although I don't really understand the "pun" :confused: But I'm pretty sure that I've heard people call Tracy a racist before.
The pun was based on what Richard said about people complaining when his daughters win and complaining when they lose. He said that the only reason why this is being said is because of his daughters being black and I agree with him on that point.

harloo
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:35 AM
I think the point of someone mentioning Hingis was to point out that the anti-Williams comments are not about them being black....as the "Richard Strikes Black" title seems to imply...although I don't really understand the "pun" :confused: But I'm pretty sure that I've heard people call Tracy a racist before.
I fail to see why Hingis is brought into this discussion when she is retired from the tour. I think those who use the Hingis excuse are grasping at straws.:rolleyes:

cheesestix
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:35 AM
Doubt it. All I'm reading is that Hingis and her mom got the same treatment and that Williams fans should take it because Hingis fans went through it.

So why did Richard say "these black girls"? :rolleyes: The whole implication of the article was that Tracy (in Richard's eyes) is racist. And look the title "Richard Strikes Black" :rolleyes:

Knizzle
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:36 AM
Austin "personally" attack Richard and Oracene by saying they weren't real tennis players. No one said you had to be on tour to be a coach or to be a "real" tennis player, all you have to do is know the game. I feel sorry for Momo and Clijsters and the less successful girls, I guess they should changed their "real" tennis player coaches cause they can't take them to greatness at the moment. Cause the "non real" tennis coaches Oracene and Richard have only got 10 slams and 2 former #1's who were #1 and #2 at the same time and dominated the game.

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:37 AM
So what did Richard mean by "these black girls"? :rolleyes:
Did the person who put Hingis' name put it because of the black girls remark or the comparison that both women had their parents coaching them?

Knizzle
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:37 AM
BTW you don't hear Austin telling those players to change their coaches. I'm sick of parents getting mess talked about them not being real coaches or good coaches cause they never were on tour.

GBFH
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:37 AM
LOL, where was it pointed out that it was okay to put down hingis' mom? What does Hingis even have to do with Venus and Serena?

Hingis being put into this convo obviously was used to negate any criticism the Williams' are getting.
it has been implied.

i don't know why some of you guys are playing dense. the analogy between hingis and venus is valid, and it shows that austin does this to everyone. it is not unique to venus and serena.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:38 AM
So why did Richard say "these black girls"? :rolleyes: The whole implication of the article was that Tracy (in Richard's eyes) is racist. And look the title "Richard Strikes Black" :rolleyes:
See post #94.

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:38 AM
So why did Richard say "these black girls"? :rolleyes: The whole implication of the article was that Tracy (in Richard's eyes) is racist. And look the title "Richard Strikes Black" :rolleyes:
You might as well go and find Richard and have your own personal discussion with him because I don't see the people in this thread going on and on about that remark but more or less the gist of the whole argument about parents and them coaching their kids. You're obviously taking your own "implication" away from it all and not thoroughly reading this thread.

cheesestix
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:38 AM
I fail to see why Hingis is brought into this discussion when she is retired from the tour. I think those who use the Hingis excuse are grasping at straws.:rolleyes:

Maybe because it proves that players of ALL COLORS get negative comments???? And maybe that DISPROVES Richard's claims that only "these black girls" are targeted????

GBFH
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:40 AM
did you read my other posts?

I said how am I suppose to know what's offensive to Hingis, her fans and her mom? I dont' like her. I didn't watch all her matches unless she was playing a fav of mine?

I also said just because they were too nice or not offended by it to say anything doesn't mean no one else should?

So I'm saying, I don't have an opinon about Tracy and Hingis cause I DONT CARE ABOUT HINGIS....I was not watching her matches and paying attention to what was said about her good or bad. I wasn't on here saying what they said about Hingis to be truth because I DONT CARE ABOUT HINGIS.

I dont' think I can say it any more plain than that. This thread is not about Hingis...Its about whether Tracy went overboard in the last match with Venus. I think she did. Other people think she did. Richard thinks she did. We've all voiced our opinion about it. Some nicely some wrongly either way hopefully she sees the effects of running off at the mouth..
since when do you have to be a hingis fan? you HAVE a hingis fan in this thread telling you that the same exact things were said about her. why is this so difficult?

i don't see why it's so rude for her to say that about richard. maybe melanie and martina have thicker skin.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:40 AM
Austin "personally" attack Richard and Oracene by saying they weren't real tennis players. No one said you had to be on tour to be a coach or to be a "real" tennis player, all you have to do is know the game. I feel sorry for Momo and Clijsters and the less successful girls, I guess they should changed their "real" tennis player coaches cause they can't take them to greatness at the moment. Cause the "non real" tennis coaches Oracene and Richard have only got 10 slams and 2 former #1's who were #1 and #2 at the same time and dominated the game.

:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:40 AM
it has been implied.

i don't know why some of you guys are playing dense. the analogy between hingis and venus is valid, and it shows that austin does this to everyone. it is not unique to venus and serena.
The anaology is valid however again, what is it supposed to do? Are Williams fans supposed to be okay with it just because Martina and her mom were critised too? I'm not seeing the point unless the implication was to downplay people's thoughts and feelings. I couldn't care less about Martina especially since the subject at hand is Venus/Serena and their parents as coaches.

Rocketta
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:41 AM
it has been implied.

i don't know why some of you guys are playing dense. the analogy between hingis and venus is valid, and it shows that austin does this to everyone. it is not unique to venus and serena.
ok, you're going to have to point us in the direction where people were implying that. I missed it.

The only way that analogy would be pertinant is if your point is that Hingis' and her mom weren't offended and Richard shouldn't be either? However, even then the answer is that they're different people. :shrug:

htm
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:41 AM
You know what WS fan theirs no need to try an explain anything to these people, because there is a certain group of people who will NEVER accept the WS or their dad, just as in the south a certain group of people who will never accept another certain group of people. Thats just the way it is and always will be. So just stop trying to explain.

Mase
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:41 AM
It's not the suggesting about fixing the forehand is the problem; how would you feel if someone outright said that because you never played professional tennis, you may not have the capacity to fix your daughter's game? He hasnt fixed her problems, so maybe shes right? Heaven forbid.. I mean Venus hasnt beat at top 10 player this year, and she has much more tpotential than that.

Ssomething has to be done and he's not getting it done, bottom line. As a commentator thats what they do, they give thier opinion. This article is just another eason not to like Richard Williams, as if there wasnt already enough.

Whatever is done, I hope she gets back on track.. It was good seeing that V fighting spirit again in that last game.

cheesestix
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:43 AM
The anaology is valid however again, what is it supposed to do? Are Williams fans supposed to be okay with it just because Martina and her mom were critised too? I'm not seeing the point unless the implication was to downplay people's thoughts and feelings. I couldn't care less about Martina especially since the subject at hand is Venus/Serena and their parents as coaches.

I think the point is to quit trying to make this a black/white thing, when it clearly is not.

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:43 AM
I think the point is to quit trying to make this a black/white thing, when it clearly is not.
Of which you are continuing to make it.

Black Mamba.
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:44 AM
This article shows why I respect Richard. He intentionally says these things so the heat will come back on him instead of his daughters, I'm sure Vee and Serena have thought these same things, but Richard says them so they won't take the majority of the heat.

Knizzle
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:46 AM
He hasnt fixed her problems, so maybe shes right? Heaven forbid.. I mean Venus hasnt beat at top 10 player this year, and she has much more tpotential than that.


Momo and Clijsters coaches haven't gotten them to the point where they stopped choking, so why isn't Austin picking on them, it's always Williams, Williams, Williams. When they were winning it was bad, now that their losing it's bad, they can't win for losing.

Rocketta
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:46 AM
since when do you have to be a hingis fan? you HAVE a hingis fan in this thread telling you that the same exact things were said about her. why is this so difficult?

i don't see why it's so rude for her to say that about richard. maybe melanie and martina have thicker skin.
once is an opinion but going on and on is running off at the mouth...it's not for us to say what offends Richard or Melanie.. Maybe Melanie wasn't offended? That's her right. However, does that mean that Richard shouldn't be?

This discussion isn't about whether Melanie, Hingis or their fans were offended the discussion is about whether Richard was offended and he was. I was annoyed and started a thread about it. I haven't even thought to start a thread about a commentator since AO 2003 when MJF kept running off at the mouth about her personal breakfasts and lunches with Kim Clijsters.

harloo
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:47 AM
Maybe because it proves that players of ALL COLORS get negative comments???? And maybe that DISPROVES Richard's claims that only "these black girls" are targeted????
Richard is right when he uses it in the particular context in this article. He simply stated when his daughters were winning their was something wrong, now since they are losing their is something wrong with their parents coaching. He attributed that attitude to the dislike of two black girls being on top and he is right.

Never have I seen two former #1 players so disrespected by the commentators at the biggest event in their own home country. It's shameful to say the least, and I hope that Richard's comment will shut them all up. What a negative bunch of people!:rolleyes:

cheesestix
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:48 AM
Of which you are continuing to make it.

:confused:

I didn't take it there. The title of the thread AND the article flat out took it there.

The only reason I had to mention it was to explain to you (because you don't seem to get it) why Hingis was mentioned.

:rolleyes:

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:49 AM
I haven't heard Austin comment on a Mauresmo match so I wouldn't know. I've heard plenty about Mauresmo not being able to win under pressure from other commentators.

Also, Kim isn't playing now, so no one is talking about her.

But also I don't remember anyone ever talking about how Mauresmo and Kim were going to dominate women's tennis for years and years either.

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:49 AM
:confused:

I didn't take it there. The title of the thread AND the article flat out took it there.

The only reason I had to mention it was to explain to you (because you don't seem to get it) why Hingis was mentioned.

:rolleyes:
Considering that throughout the whole article that's what you took from it and stuck through, you've kept it there. You haven't done a good job either of explaining why Hingis was mentioned :rolleyes:

Mase
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:50 AM
I haven't heard Austin comment on a Mauresmo match so I wouldn't know. I've heard plenty about Mauresmo not being able to win under pressure from other commentators.

Also, Kim isn't playing now, so no one is talking about her.

But also I don't remember anyone ever talking about how Mauresmo and Kim were going to dominate women's tennis for years and years either.
Me neither so I cant say.

cheesestix
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:51 AM
Considering that throughout the whole article that's what you took from it and stuck through, you've kept it there. You haven't done a good job either of explaining why Hingis was mentioned :rolleyes:

No. I've made it abundantly clear. Pay attention. :rolleyes:

You just haven't done a good job of comprehending. :lol:

Let's leave it at that. If you still don't get it, you never will.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:52 AM
He hasnt fixed her problems, so maybe shes right? Heaven forbid.. I mean Venus hasnt beat at top 10 player this year, and she has much more tpotential than that.

Ssomething has to be done and he's not getting it done, bottom line. As a commentator thats what they do, they give thier opinion. This article is just another eason not to like Richard Williams, as if there wasnt already enough.

Whatever is done, I hope she gets back on track.. It was good seeing that V fighting spirit again in that last game.

I don't care that you don't like Richard, but I find it interesting that people find no problem with her questioning their capcacity to fix their daughters' game when one of them is a Grand Slam champion and wasn't even playing her best at the tournament that won her the last Grand Slam to complete the career Grand Slam.

mykarma
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:52 AM
ho hum. I didn't hear any of you complaining when Tracy used to go on and on and on about Hingis and what was wrong with her game and her mother as her coach.If it bothered you why didn't you complain..

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:53 AM
once is an opinion but going on and on is running off at the mouth...it's not for us to say what offends Richard or Melanie.. Maybe Melanie wasn't offended? That's her right. However, does that mean that Richard shouldn't be?

This discussion isn't about whether Melanie, Hingis or their fans were offended the discussion is about whether Richard was offended and he was. I was annoyed and started a thread about it. I haven't even thought to start a thread about a commentator since AO 2003 when MJF kept running off at the mouth about her personal breakfasts and lunches with Kim Clijsters.
But that wasn't the discussion alone. The discussion was also that nobody else got treated this way and Venus and Serena were being singled out for criticism. Richard's remarks were clear about that. He even intimated it was because they were black.

When Harloo said Tracy was indulging in "haterism" he was clearly making the statement that Tracy was being unusualy harsh toward the Williams sisters..... Venus in particular.

When these sorts of statements are made, then it is quite fair to counter with examples of Tracy's treatment of other players over the years.

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:54 AM
No. I've made it abundantly clear. Pay attention. :rolleyes:

You just haven't done a good job of comprehending. :lol:

Let's leave it at that. If you still don't get it, you never will.
Oh so we're now at the personal attacks. Gotcha, Richard is accussed of making it personal and you seem to follow his lead. Who would have known you had so much in common.

A lesson in comprehending coming from someone who focuses on one line and seemingly doesn't put it in context with the rest of the article or true subject matter at hand.

Well go on with your personal attacks since you have no argument.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:54 AM
Momo and Clijsters coaches haven't gotten them to the point where they stopped choking, so why isn't Austin picking on them, it's always Williams, Williams, Williams. When they were winning it was bad, now that their losing it's bad, they can't win for losing.

They can't win for winning.

Knizzle
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:55 AM
I haven't heard Austin comment on a Mauresmo match so I wouldn't know. I've heard plenty about Mauresmo not being able to win under pressure from other commentators.

Also, Kim isn't playing now, so no one is talking about her.

But also I don't remember anyone ever talking about how Mauresmo and Kim were going to dominate women's tennis for years and years either.
So their coaches get a pass as usual. DDOOUUBBLLEE STANDARD

Mase
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:56 AM
She wasnt talking about Serena though.... It was Venus's forehand.

I mean she said that they had done a great job with the girls, which is obvious. I dont see what the big deal is about her giving her opinion that yeah, they have taught them well but maybe they should see a 'specialist' to work on certain flaws that Richard may not know how to work out since no, he didnt play.

I mean if you have a friend that works on cars randomly and you bring your car to them and they can't fix the problem, wouldnt you see someone else?? Cmon now, its all pretty much the same premise, even if your friend had fixed many issues with your car in the past you'd still go somewhere else to fix the problem.

Sportfan
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:57 AM
I also find it amazing that with all their flaws that Serena was the only American to reach a Grand slam final so far with her parents bad coaching and that Venus was on a winning streak until she injured herself before the French Open.

cheesestix
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:58 AM
Oh so we're now at the personal attacks. Gotcha, Richard is accussed of making it personal and you seem to follow his lead. Who would have known you had so much in common.

A lesson in comprehending coming from someone who focuses on one line and seemingly doesn't put it in context with the rest of the article or true subject matter at hand.

Well go on with your personal attacks since you have no argument.

Damn! You took that personal? :rolleyes:

Lighten up, buddy! ;)

And WHO has no argument?

One last time, the article and the thread title talk about race. Hingis was mentioned because she's also been criticized. This proves that people of all colors get criticism. Why's that so hard to understand? :confused:

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:58 AM
She wasnt talking about Serena though.... It was Venus's forehand.

I mean she said that they had done a great job with the girls, which is obvious. I dont see what the big deal is about her giving her opinion that yeah, they have taught them well but maybe they should see a 'specialist' to work on certain flaws that Richard may not know how to work out since no, he didnt play.

I mean if you have a friend that works on cars randomly and you bring your car to them and they can't fix the problem, wouldnt you see someone else?? Cmon now, its all pretty much the same premise, even if your friend had fixed many issues with your car in the past you'd still go somewhere else to fix the problem.

She didn't say Richard wouldn't know how to fix it; she said that because he and Oracene were never professional players, they didn't have to capaity to fix it.

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:58 AM
So their coaches get a pass as usual. DDOOUUBBLLEE STANDARD
You are a silly billy. I didn't say their coaches got a pass. I said I hadn't heard Austin comment on one of Mauresmo's matches so I really couldn't talk about it. Also since Kim isn't playing Austin, couldn't comment about her play.

The DOUBLE STANDARD that is being applied in this thread is the one that says Austin being critical of the Williams sisters is haterism and dreadful when in fact Austin has been hyper critical of other players in that past.

Now don't try to twist that around. :lol:

Mase
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:00 AM
She didn't say Richard wouldn't know how to fix it; she said that because he and Oracene were never professional players, they didn't have to capaity to fix it.
And thats not a possibilty? They didnt play, they cant know it all. Books can only show people so much.

AjdeNate!
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:01 AM
Wouldn't you want to use all help available from daddy or from Joe Blow to be back to #1? Why is this such an issue?

Mase
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:01 AM
And thats not a possibilty? They didnt play, they cant know it all. Books can only show people so much.
And also Venus's fans I would hope would want her to get whatever help she needs to get back to the form she SHOULD be in. Im not even the biggest Venus fan and I do, Richard and Oracene just unfortunatley arent getting it down.

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:02 AM
She didn't say Richard wouldn't know how to fix it; she said that because he and Oracene were never professional players, they didn't have to capaity to fix it.
I don't think she limited that to being professional players. They've never played competitively at all as I understand it.

That's not taking a knock at their intelligence, it is simply pointing out that they may lack expertise that others have. She said the same thing about Melanie Hingis for god's sake. She was probably right about Melanie, and she's probably right about Oracene and Richard too. She's not the first one to have said it.

She's said they've done a wonderful job with Venus and Serena.

And it's not like Richard and Oracene have been Venus and Serena's only teachers over the years. They've been tutored by a number of professionals along the way.

Black Mamba.
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:03 AM
If books can show me how to become a multiple grandslam champion, an olympic gold medalist, and get me lots of money, I need to start reading more books.

cheesestix
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:03 AM
And thats not a possibilty? They didnt play, they cant know it all. Books can only show people so much.

Didn't you know? Richard and Oracene coached Venus and Serena to win several GS titles, and to #1 and #2 in the world. That means they're the greatest coaches to ever coach the game of tennis. :lol:

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:03 AM
And thats not a possibilty? They didnt play, they cant know it all. Books can only show people so much.

I have a question; did Jennifer's father play profiesionally? Becauase if he did, then she should have achieved a whole lot more than the sisters have.

mykarma
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:04 AM
Because Richard Williams said that people were being unfair to "these black girls."

And because you and others were intimating that Tracy's remarks were personal to the Williams sisters.

Other's including myself have been pointing out that there is no "haterism" or any other kind of "ism" going on here but simply business as usual for Tracy Austen.

I think that the Williams fans are finding out what the Hingis fans learned sometime ago.... It all fun on the way up....... but being at the top is a little more difficult.... and when things start to slide.... it gets very difficult indeed. There is criticism from all sides.

You act like this is something brand new and never happened to any player before. But it's happened plenty.You have a short memory. Venus and Serena had problems from the day they stepped on the court. They didn't have the option of waiting until they were on their way down, if they're on their way down. It's easy to forget they've both been out for some time with injuries. Next year they could come back smoking and kicking butt. Andre did it so why not them?

BK4ever
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:04 AM
The problem I have with Austin and all the others who criticize V&S is that they don't do the same for other players...there has always been a double standard where V&S are concerned and they will always be UNFORTUNATELY.

AjdeNate!
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:05 AM
I have a question; did Jennifer's father play profiesionally? Becauase if he did, then she should have achieved a whole lot more than the sisters have.
How many non-parental coaches has she had? LIke 10?

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:06 AM
I don't think she limited that to being professional players. They've never played competitively at all as I understand it.

That's not taking a knock at their intelligence, it is simply pointing out that they may lack expertise that others have. She said the same thing about Melanie Hingis for god's sake. She was probably right about Melanie, and she's probably right about Oracene and Richard too. She's not the first one to have said it.

She's said they've done a wonderful job with Venus and Serena.

And it's not like Richard and Oracene have been Venus and Serena's only teachers over the years. They've been tutored by a number of professionals along the way.

Yes, she did.

I heard the whole conversation the other night.

Mase
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:06 AM
Cmon now Liz you KNOW she has worked with many other coaches. Please.

AjdeNate!
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:06 AM
I have never heard Tracy or ANY commentator for that matter come outright and say that a player who has their parent as a coach does not have the capacity to fix their childs game. And on the women's side their are plenty of players with parents as coaches.

Why have we not heard this about anyone else? Is it just a coincidence? :rolleyes:
Hingis. Molitor.
End.

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:07 AM
And also Venus's fans I would hope would want her to get whatever help she needs to get back to the form she SHOULD be in. Im not even the biggest Venus fan and I do, Richard and Oracene just unfortunatley arent getting it down.
Please don't speak for any Venus fans. Your hope is the same for many who also want her to do better no matter what it takes, changes and all. I have yet to see a pocket of any Williams fan, Serena or Venus, not want better for their favorite.

Mase
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:07 AM
I have never heard Tracy or ANY commentator for that matter come outright and say that someone's Parents who coach does not have the capacity to fix their childs game. And on the women's side their are plenty of players with parents as coaches.

Why have we not heard this about anyone else? Is it just a coincidence? :rolleyes:
She talked all kinds of shit about Hingis and her serve. And Im pretty sure she's talked about Dementievas mom not working on her serve as well.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:08 AM
How many non-parental coaches has she had? LIke 10?
I don't know, but it hasn't been enough so far.

AjdeNate!
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:08 AM
I don't know, but it hasn't been enough so far.
But it's the point of what you're saying. Same thing applies across the board. :wavey:

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:09 AM
Cmon now Liz you KNOW she has worked with many other coaches. Please.
I have seen the recent results and I rest my case.

Mase
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:10 AM
Ok she has beat multiple top 10 players this yr, and has been to the Semis of a Slam this year.
Your right she's had a horrible year...

AjdeNate!
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:10 AM
I have seen the recent results and I rest my case.
Consistently in 2nd weeks of Slams.... can't complain about that.

Mase
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:10 AM
I have seen the recent results and I rest my case. Has Venus been to the semis of a grand slam this year?

Ummm no. I rest my case, thanks for playing.

cheesestix
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:10 AM
Some of you are giving too much credit to the coaching, and not enough to the talent.

And why would anyone think that from a pure "tennis" standpoint that Richard Williams is a better coach than someone like Nick Bolliteri (sp?) or Brad Gilbert?

Mase
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:11 AM
Consistently in 2nd weeks of Slams.... can't complain about that.
Exactly.

mykarma
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:11 AM
So what did Richard mean by "these black girls"? :rolleyes:You bring up race more than anyone else on these boards. Why don't you write Richard and ask him what he meant.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:11 AM
But it's the point of what you're saying. Same thing applies across the board. :wavey:

All I know is that will all the help she has gotten, I don't see an additonal GS titles on her mantel since 2002.

AjdeNate!
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:11 AM
Has Venus been to the semis of a grand slam?

Ummm no. I rest my case, thanks for playing.
Do we at least get parting gifts? :lol:

AjdeNate!
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:11 AM
All I know is that will all the help she has gotten, I don't see an additonal GS titles on her mantel since 2002.
2002 still beats 2001.
Thanks for playing.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:13 AM
Has Venus been to the semis of a grand slam this year?

Ummm no. I rest my case, thanks for playing.

No, but was injured for six months and during the year.

My question is, with all of Jennifer's coaching, why has she not been to a final since the 2002 AO?

Knizzle
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:13 AM
She wasnt talking about Serena though.... It was Venus's forehand.

I mean she said that they had done a great job with the girls, which is obvious. I dont see what the big deal is about her giving her opinion that yeah, they have taught them well but maybe they should see a 'specialist' to work on certain flaws that Richard may not know how to work out since no, he didnt play.

I mean if you have a friend that works on cars randomly and you bring your car to them and they can't fix the problem, wouldnt you see someone else?? Cmon now, its all pretty much the same premise, even if your friend had fixed many issues with your car in the past you'd still go somewhere else to fix the problem.
She did mention Serena's FH as having tecnhical problems and that she needed help.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:14 AM
2002 still beats 2001.
Thanks for playing.
4>3

Where are my bonus points?

cheesestix
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:14 AM
You bring up race more than anyone else on these boards. Why don't you write Richard and ask him what he meant.

I didn't bring it up. Read the title. Read the article. :rolleyes:

Mase
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:14 AM
Ok she was injured as well and didint get a special ranking.

Bottom line is Venus needs to do whatever it takes to get back in form, and she's not getting it from Richard. Jen has atleast TRIED different options and her results have been decent this yr.

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:15 AM
No, but was injured for six months and during the year.

My question is, with all of Jennifer's coaching, why has she not been to a final since the 2002 AO? Because she is out of shape, undiciplined, and getting old. Also she's been unable to submit herself to the discipline of any coach outside of her family.

What the hell does that have to do with Austin's criticsm of Venus?

Black Mamba.
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:15 AM
Tracy can comment all she wants because at the end of the day the players don't care what she has to say. My main problem with this is when you have guys who have never played tennis like that guy who is with Tracy Austin acting like they can comment on a players game, I know it's his job but I say if he thinks he can improve Vee's forehand why doesn't he get out there and show her how it's done.

cheesestix
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:15 AM
2002 still beats 2001.
Thanks for playing.

:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:16 AM
Because she is out of shape, undiciplined, and getting old. Also she's been unable to submit herself to the discipline of any coach outside of her family.

What the hell does that have to do with Austin's criticsm of Venus?

I don't know. Ask Mase.

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:16 AM
Tracy can comment all she wants because at the end of the day the players don't care what she has to say. My main problem with this is when you have guys who have never played tennis like that guy who is with Tracy Austin acting like they can comment on a players game, I know it's his job bur I say if he thinks he can improve Vee's forehand why doesn't he get out there and show her how it's done.
How did this get turned from Austin to her sidekick?

It was Austin, Richard Williams was lambasting.

cheesestix
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:17 AM
4>3

Where are my bonus points?

So when you lose an argument, change the argument. :lol:

mykarma
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:19 AM
it has been implied.

i don't know why some of you guys are playing dense. the analogy between hingis and venus is valid, and it shows that austin does this to everyone. it is not unique to venus and serena.So does that make it all right? Tracy talked about Hingis so it's got to be ok for her to talk about Oracena and Richard.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:19 AM
So when you lose an argument, change the argument. :lol:

I am very well aware Jennifer won the AO in 2002.

I am also aware she has not surpassed Venus in GS trohpies; I wasn't changing the argument, stupid, just making a point.

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:19 AM
Because she is out of shape, undiciplined, and getting old. Also she's been unable to submit herself to the discipline of any coach outside of her family.

What the hell does that have to do with Austin's criticsm of Venus?
Probably the same that Austin's criticism of Venus had anything to do with Hingis. Nothing.

AjdeNate!
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:19 AM
4>3

Where are my bonus points?
17>11.
Thanks.

Knizzle
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:20 AM
4>3

Where are my bonus points?
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Good one Liz.

cheesestix
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:21 AM
I am very well aware Jennifer won the AO in 2002.

I am also aware she has not surpassed Venus in GS trohpies; I wasn't changing the argument, stupid, just making a point.

So why did you bring up that Jen's last win was in 2002, when you knew that Venus hasn't won a slam since 2001? :confused:

If total slams was what you were interested in, then why not say that in the first place? :lol:

Sportfan
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:25 AM
She wasnt talking about Serena though.... It was Venus's forehand.

I mean she said that they had done a great job with the girls, which is obvious. I dont see what the big deal is about her giving her opinion that yeah, they have taught them well but maybe they should see a 'specialist' to work on certain flaws that Richard may not know how to work out since no, he didnt play.

I mean if you have a friend that works on cars randomly and you bring your car to them and they can't fix the problem, wouldnt you see someone else?? Cmon now, its all pretty much the same premise, even if your friend had fixed many issues with your car in the past you'd still go somewhere else to fix the problem.


Venus is not a car she is a human being you can't change the oil or battery and voila problem fixed and who is to say that taking your car to someone else wouldn't make the problem worse what Richard is trying to do is fix a flaw that has taken years to be ingrained the problem will not be fixed overnight. It is not like Venus or Richard is unaware of the problem it just will take some time and work for it to get together and most of all it will take confidence and if Davenport and the rest keep trying to pick on Venus's forehand all it will do is make it better yeah Venus had a lot of errors on the forehand side but she also had more winners on it than Davenport and if she had been able to just get a few of those forehands in the results could have been different. There is nothing wrong with tracey saying there is a problem with venus's forehand but what she should have also said is that Venus and her (parents) coaches are aware of it and are working on it.

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:25 AM
So does that make it all right? Tracy talked about Hingis so it's got to be ok for her to talk about Oracena and Richard.
Ok. Once again. It doesn't mean it is ok for her to talk about any of them. That was never the point. The question was whether Tracy was singling out the Williams sisters for different or extraordinary treatment. The answer was, "no, because she did the same with Hingis."

Whether it is ok for her to do that is another topic entirely.

Mase
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:26 AM
Because anytime Im in a thread is seems like Im the spokesperson for Jen to Liz.
Your right she had nothing to do with this thread at all, Liz just loves bringing her up.

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:26 AM
Venus is not a car she is a human being you can't change the oil or battery and voila problem fixed and who is to say that taking your car to someone else wouldn't make the problem worse what Richard is trying to do is fix a flaw that has taken years to be ingrained the problem will not be fixed overnight. It is not like Venus or Richard is unaware of the problem it just will take some time and work for it to get together and most of all it will take confidence and if Davenport and the rest keep trying to pick on Venus's forehand all it will do is make it better yeah Venus had a lot of errors on the forehand side but she also had more winners on it than Davenport and if she had been able to just get a few of those forehands in the results could have been different. There is nothing wrong with tracey saying there is a problem with venus's forehand but what she should have also said is that Venus and her (parents) coaches are aware of it and are working on it.
So I see you are not big on analogy. :)

Mase
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:28 AM
Venus is not a car she is a human being you can't change the oil or battery and voila problem fixed and who is to say that taking your car to someone else wouldn't make the problem worse what Richard is trying to do is fix a flaw that has taken years to be ingrained the problem will not be fixed overnight. It is not like Venus or Richard is unaware of the problem it just will take some time and work for it to get together and most of all it will take confidence and if Davenport and the rest keep trying to pick on Venus's forehand all it will do is make it better yeah Venus had a lot of errors on the forehand side but she also had more winners on it than Davenport and if she had been able to just get a few of those forehands in the results could have been different. There is nothing wrong with tracey saying there is a problem with venus's forehand but what she should have also said is that Venus and her (parents) coaches are aware of it and are working on it.
I didnt compare her to a car dude. The point is he has had 3 plus years to work on it, and its still not working. She may want to go see someone else, she has too much potential. I guess Tracey would assume they had been working on it, but it hasnt showed at all these past few years. So maybe someone else's perspective wouldnt hurt, THATS all she said.

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:29 AM
Probably the same that Austin's criticism of Venus had anything to do with Hingis. Nothing.
When it is alleged that Austin is singling out Venus for extraordinary or different treatment, then it is appropriate to counter that contention with examples of Austin's treatment of other players. Hingis is just one of those players. There are others I am sure. :)

AjdeNate!
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:29 AM
I didnt compare her to a car dude. The point is he has had 3 plus years to work on it, and its still not working. She may want to go see someone else, she has too much potential. I guess Tracey would assume they had been working on it, but it hasnt showed at all these past few years. So maybe someone else's perspective wouldnt hurt, THATS all she said.
I took it as constructive criticism.... and shouldn't it be?

Mase
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:29 AM
So I see you are not big on analogy. :)
Right, Im outta this thread, its a waste of time. Now Ive compared Venus to a car and some people are getting petty about Jen... Too much.

Dude it was an analogy for the love.

mykarma
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:32 AM
I didn't bring it up. Read the title. Read the article. :rolleyes:But you won't let it die. You never do.

Couver
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:33 AM
Richard :hearts:


Although I wish he had told of Ted Robinson soooo much more than Tracy. :o

WF4EVER
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:36 AM
I read an article early last week about Richard and he was saying how great the sisters were playing and how they were going to be so great at the Open. Well, I winced, because I expected nothing less than what Venus delivered. Venus' problems can not be fixed in one magical week.

I have a lot of respect for Richard for all he has done for V&S, taking them from their youth to winning GS titles, but it's about time he cut the bullshit out. I'm tired of him blaming everything, and particularly in this instance - Tracy's comments/observations on racism. You know what? If he, and Venus, in particular, would actually stop and listen sometimes they might both learn how to make her the player she can be. Of course Tracy does repeat herself tiresomely but in Venus' case she has been objective (she slobbers over Maria). So has John McEnroe; they haven't said anything damning or hurtful, IMO, and maybe Venus needs to stop following her father in his ignorant behaviour. It's no wonder she can't/won't improve because she's as stubborn as he is.

At this point if Venus is taking comfort in the fact that she lost to Davenport because she was playing great then she will never improve because she is not enabling herself to be her best.

I never expected Venus to win the Open. Considering how much she has had niggling injuries, I felt it was wayyyy too much to expect of her. IMO she didn't have to; but she had to show that she was willing to do what it took to be more consistent.

Oh, she wants to win, but what Venus doesn't realize or refuses to accept is that the 10 cents (dime) that bought a pound of sugar ten years ago can't buy shit now and that's exactly what her game is like now.

I keep hoping that Venus will prove me wrong and fix her forehand on her own which she seems convinced she can do, but OTOH, tournament after tournament without any improvement (particularly consistency) it seems she really is clueless, and content in her cluelessness.

She can do whatever she wants with the rest of the year but if Venus continues to be in denial and continues to go along with Richard's ignorance about Tracy and others trying to disunite them then she won't go much further next year. She needs to put away with his slave mentality, especially in this instance where the comments made by many about her weaknesses and ways to improve can only help her, if she cares to listen.

Venus has made a lot of money in her time and I don't think she's playing tennis now because she's in need of the money, but if she's going to do this job well, she should have the sharpest tools.

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:40 AM
When it is alleged that Austin is singling out Venus for extraordinary or different treatment, then it is appropriate to counter that contention with examples of Austin's treatment of other players. Hingis is just one of those players. There are others I am sure. :)

Originally Posted by harloo
Reasonable? Maybe you have not watched the Chanda Rubin match and heard Tracy and Ted in action, they were pretty horrible. It was not constructive criticism, but outright haterism.



Starr...

:lol: :lol:

I listened to the match and believe me it was no more than Tracy did to Hingis or than what Pam Shriver did to Hingis. They tore into Hingis and her mother without mercy. You just didn't notice because it wasn't your player who was getting slagged. You notice that even now, Tracy keeps bringing up how she advised Hingis to get a coach for her serve.

And...... is "haterism" even a word? What the heck does that mean?Where did Harloo state only Venus and Serena received this single minded treatment that forced you to mention Hingis and her mother?

cheesestix
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:44 AM
Venus is not a car she is a human being you can't change the oil or battery and voila problem fixed and who is to say that taking your car to someone else wouldn't make the problem worse what Richard is trying to do is fix a flaw that has taken years to be ingrained the problem will not be fixed overnight. It is not like Venus or Richard is unaware of the problem it just will take some time and work for it to get together and most of all it will take confidence and if Davenport and the rest keep trying to pick on Venus's forehand all it will do is make it better yeah Venus had a lot of errors on the forehand side but she also had more winners on it than Davenport and if she had been able to just get a few of those forehands in the results could have been different. There is nothing wrong with tracey saying there is a problem with venus's forehand but what she should have also said is that Venus and her (parents) coaches are aware of it and are working on it.

My brother knows a lot about cars, but he's not a professional mechanic. Sometimes, he knows exactly how to fix things. And sometimes, I'll let him tinker on my car for a while, until it becomes apparent that it's beyond his capabilities. So I get it back from him and take it to a professional, so that it's driveable again.

SelesFan70
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:46 AM
:rolleyes: I don't see how getting a professional to fix a flaw in Venus' forehand is earth shaking. And if Richard doesn't want Venus going for outside help, then he should FIX IT HIMSELF.

He obviously doesn't know HOW to fix it. :rolleyes:

Cybelle Darkholme
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:48 AM
Tracy doesnt have anything to explain because shes right. They do need help with the forehand and only an idiot would think getting a specialist would break up their family. Whatever.


She wasnt addressing their familial relationship just the coaching one. He needs to wake up and suggest it himself if truly cared abou their games but he doesnt remember? he wants them out of tennis in a business enterprise, remember?

:rolleyes:

Come back strong venus and keep on trucking rena!

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:50 AM
Where did Harloo state only Venus and Serena received this single minded treatment that forced you to mention Hingis and her mother?
No one forced me.

I did it all by myself. I didn't even need to seek outside coaching. :)

He said that Tracy's comments were so overboard that they showed "haterism." :)

Also Richard Williams referenced unfair treatment so it was inherent in the topic from the beginning.

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:53 AM
No one forced me.

I did it all by myself. I didn't even need to seek outside coaching. :)

He said that Tracy's comments were so overboard that they showed "haterism." :)

Also Richard Williams referenced unfair treatment so it was inherent in the topic from the beginning.
Ah, okay.

Sportfan
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:57 AM
I didnt compare her to a car dude. The point is he has had 3 plus years to work on it, and its still not working. She may want to go see someone else, she has too much potential. I guess Tracey would assume they had been working on it, but it hasnt showed at all these past few years. So maybe someone else's perspective wouldnt hurt, THATS all she said.
Maybe I misunderstood but didn't you say if you were having problems with your car and you had a friend who fixed cars randomly and you took it to them but they couldn't fix it so wouldn't you then take it to someone else so Naturally I assumed you were comparing Vee to a car that had problems and Richard as the mechanic who couldn't fix it please explain how I misunderstood. Maybe Tracey is right and someone else's perspective would help but maybe it won't and that's my point Venus and her coach are aware of the problem so Tracey needs to stop acting as if they are not and let them work on it and maybe the reason they haven't done anything about it seriously until recently is because Venus and Serena have been too busy winning Grand slams and appearing in Grand Slam finals and other major tournaments with all their faulty technique. Fact is Richard has taken video of Venus playing and has been doing a lot of work with her on the forehand during practice please tell me what someone else would do that you know of that Richard hasn't done. Also let em remind you of somethign when everyone was dumping on Jennifer Capriati on her serve you know what Billie Jean King told her when she asked her for advice she simply said it was good enough and Jennifer went out there and won the Australian Open. All Jennifer needed was confidence and yeah her serve wasn't perfect but she believed in it and when it counted she got it in and made her shots yeah Venus needs to fix her forehand but what she needs more is to get her confidence back in her shots and she will be just fine.

cheesestix
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:00 AM
She's nasty jealous white bitch.

Does anything really need to be said here? :lol:

htm
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:01 AM
I think this all boils down to white people not giving the Williams the respect they are do, all they get is criticism. It don't matter what we do we will never get the respect of white people so I question should some people even try. Richard has done a great job and I expect him to continue to do a good job, its just up to Venus and Serena and what they want.

cool bird
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:12 AM
I think this all boils down to white people not giving the Williams the respect they are do, all they get is criticism. It don't matter what we do we will never get the respect of white people so I question should some people even try. Richard has done a great job and I expect him to continue to do a good job, its just up to Venus and Serena and what they want.

Oh whatever. So Tracy should not say anything about the Williams sisters when she is doing one of there matches due to the fact that they black.

Richard is talking rubbish Venus needs to grow up and see she is a 24 year old women and cut the damn apron strings. It is time to go out alone we have to do it at some point

Black Mamba.
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:16 AM
I really think the essence of this is that it is ok to criticize players when they are doing poorly, but what Richard is saying is that even when they were winning they were criticized and hated on. I am all for correction when people are doing poorly, but for years these commentators have hated on these two when they've done nothing but play hard and respect the game. Never in the past have I seen champions who were disrespected this much, I recall even when they were winning people like Martina Nav, John McEnroe and others were taking bad about them when they had nothing but respect for them.

cool bird
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:20 AM
I think all the commentators where speaking as they saw it.

Freewoman33
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:21 AM
Tracy Austin has finally gotten a taste of her very own medicine. Good job Richard Williams.

AjdeNate!
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:23 AM
Tracy Austin has finally gotten a taste of her very own medicine. Good job Richard Williams.
But she laughed it off and had a good time with it.... so the "medicine' must not have tasted too badly.

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:24 AM
I really think the essence of this is that it is ok to criticize players when they are doing poorly, but what Richard is saying is that even when they were winning they were criticized and hated on. I am all for correction when people are doing poorly, but for years these commentators have hated on these two when they've done nothing but play hard and respect the game. Never in the past have I seen champions who were disrespected this much, I recall even when they were winning people like Martina Nav, John McEnroe and others were taking bad about them when they had nothing but respect for them.
Thank you! :worship:

Sportfan
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:26 AM
Can anyone point out to an article where Venus or Serena has specifically said they would never under any circumstances go to anyone else if they needed help on their technique and did Richard say he wouldn't go to anyone for advice if he didn't need it? Also like I said Venus and Richard are working on the forehand he has taken video of her playing what would another coach do any differently??

alfonsojose
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:28 AM
Isn't the Wilson H4 too powerful for Venus?

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:29 AM
But she laughed it off and had a good time with it.... so the "medicine' must not have tasted too badly.
But she kept on bringing it up, so it must have bothered her.

moby
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:29 AM
Didn't tracy make attacks on V&S. Who the fuck is tracy was Jen's dad ever a tennis player why the fuck she don't attack jen when she's out there playing. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I am glad some one finally strick back at all of her negative comments about V&S.
No, she made an objective comment which is what is required of her job. Of course, if you don't believe that venus needs help on her forehand, there's nothing more that I can say.

In fact, you might even take it take it a a compliment. Tracy probably thinks that venus has more potential than jen, which is why she even bothers.

She's nasty jealous white bitch.
She sure is. Wait a minute, so this is an issue of race now? And I thought that example on Martina wasn't relevant.

AjdeNate!
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:31 AM
Knizzzle: why you have the ass at me?
It was a FREAKING joke, dude. Lighten the fuck up.
Not everyone is filled with hate and chips on our shoulders.

I can't say she was being a good sport about it and not get bad repped? wft dude.
richard obviously wanted to elicit a response, and he got it. he wins, game over. she was left having to explain in a long 3 minute dissertation live on the air and defend herself.

AjdeNate!
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:31 AM
But she kept on bringing it up, so it must have bothered her.
....and THAT'S what makes it a JOKE!!!
You people need to be more in tune with harmony and sanctimony in life to be able to read sarcasm and levity. RELAX!!!!!

mp3junkie
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:32 AM
:rolleyes: I don't see how getting a professional to fix a flaw in Venus' forehand is earth shaking. And if Richard doesn't want Venus going for outside help, then he should FIX IT HIMSELF.
You are right on point with this statement. Richard do something about it then.

Knizzle
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:33 AM
Knizzzle: why you have the ass at me?
It was a FREAKING joke, dude. Lighten the fuck up.
Not everyone is filled with hate and chips on our shoulders.

I can't say she was being a good sport about it and not get bad repped? wft dude.
richard obviously wanted to elicit a response, and he got it. he wins, game over. she was left having to explain in a long 3 minute dissertation live on the air and defend herself.
It's not about the joke, you seem to be riding on the "anti Williams" bandwagon lately making sarcastic remarks repeatedly in threads concerning them.

Stamp Paid
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:34 AM
Wow, nasty jealous white bitch was a bit rude, no?

AjdeNate!
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:36 AM
It's not about the joke, you seem to be riding on the "anti Williams" bandwagon lately making sarcastic remarks repeatedly in threads concerning them.
I'm not anti-anything except stupid ppl.
I think what she said was right. They need some more guidance. But I think it's hilarious that he showed her up and made her debate on nat'l tv what she said and defend herself.

And since you're trying to call me out... where have I been anti-ANYONE? Proof, please. You ain't gonna find it.

Mase
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:36 AM
Awww lord the thread goes on.....

She didnt say ANYTHING wrong, she did her job which is commentating. This is too much.....

Bottom line is VENUS needs HELP with her game. 'Home' isnt giving to her anymore.
Why cant we all just ADMIT it and then move on, again her fans should want her to get help.

Stamp Paid
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:37 AM
Knizzzle: why you have the ass at me?
It was a FREAKING joke, dude. Lighten the fuck up.
Not everyone is filled with hate and chips on our shoulders.

I can't say she was being a good sport about it and not get bad repped? wft dude.
richard obviously wanted to elicit a response, and he got it. he wins, game over. she was left having to explain in a long 3 minute dissertation live on the air and defend herself.
Knizzle is the Williams Fan Gestapo, you didnt know? He forced me into hiding....http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/tape.gif

AjdeNate!
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:43 AM
Knizzle is the Williams Fan Gestapo, you didnt know? He forced me into hiding....http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/tape.gif
Whatever, I just don't know why he takes it so damn personally that someone has an opinion. Anyway, good luck Venus.

Knizzle
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:44 AM
Knizzle is the Williams Fan Gestapo, you didnt know? He forced me into hiding....http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/tape.gif
Can't take the heat?? Get out the kitchen!!

Freewoman33
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:44 AM
But she laughed it off and had a good time with it.... so the "medicine' must not have tasted too badly.

Please, that medicine tasted like shit, and the laugh was fake.

AjdeNate!
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:45 AM
Please, that medicine tasted like shit, and the laugh was fake.
Probably true, but I don't think I'm allowed to say that in this thread. :tape:
*silenced by force

Mase
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:45 AM
The laugh was legit hon, its not the first off the wall shit he has said/done.

How can you not laugh at him? Cmon now....... This is the guy that held up a freaking sign that said 'Its my party.... etc' At Wimby of all places.

Please.

Stamp Paid
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:46 AM
Whatever, I just don't know why he takes it so damn personally that someone has an opinion. Anyway, good luck Venus.
Yeah, you must be the kind of fan Knizzle decides you should be!

Heil Knizzle!

AjdeNate!
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:47 AM
The laugh was legit hon, its not the first off the wall shit he has said/done.

How can you not laugh at him? Cmon now....... This is the guy that held up a freaking sign that said 'Its my party.... etc' At Wimby of all places.

Please.
*gasp* HATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



:lol:

AjdeNate!
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:48 AM
Yeah, you must be the kind of fan Knizzle decides you should be!

Heil Knizzle!
I'm not at liberty to respond to such allegations.

Sportfan
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:48 AM
You are right on point with this statement. Richard do something about it then.
First I don't see how Richard taking video of Venus and focusing on the forehand in practice is not doing something about it and where has Richard said he wouldn't seek outside help if he felt it neccessary and where has Venus or serena said they wouldn't take outside help if necessary I am still waiting for the answer to that.

Mase
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:48 AM
I just call it like it is, thats was something else. If anyone else did it I'd day the dame damn thing.

Tacky as hell.... But hey, he had fun I guess.

:haha:

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:49 AM
Awww lord the thread goes on.....

She didnt say ANYTHING wrong, she did her job which is commentating. This is too much.....

Bottom line is VENUS needs HELP with her game. 'Home' isnt giving to her anymore.
Why cant we all just ADMIT it and then move on, again her fans should want her to get help.
Then by all means move on and take your generalizations with you. No one is stopping you.

Mase
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:50 AM
Ok I thought they were. Thanks, I can leave freely now! :wavey:

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:51 AM
:wavey:

AjdeNate!
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:51 AM
Ok I thought they were. Thanks, I can leave freely now! :wavey:
You've been unchained!! Run for the hills!!!

Mase
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:53 AM
Im going, I just felt so held down there for a while...

Ive never felt so free, Im taking me and my generalizations and I'm outta here!!! :haha:

Knizzle
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:54 AM
Yeah, you must be the kind of fan Knizzle decides you should be!

Heil Knizzle!
BOW DOWN AND KISS THE RING!!! :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:54 AM
Im going, I just felt so held down there for a while...

Ive never felt so free, Im taking me and my generalizations and I'm outta here!!! :haha:
:wavey:

AjdeNate!
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:57 AM
Im going, I just felt so held down there for a while...

Ive never felt so free, Im taking me and my generalizations and I'm outta here!!! :haha:
And your anti- haterism speak. Run bitch, run!

Dave B
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:04 AM
I think these comments are horrible. Richard can definitly disagree with Austin, but he is being WAY to defensive. All she talked about was having thegirls see a specialist--not leave their parents!?! The fact that Richard seems to think that someone criticizing him as a coach is the same as criticizing him as a father is faulty logic. Than to criticize Austin's family??? That is so low and uncalled for. He made it personal when he really should've just talked about how he is a good coach or talk about ice cream or at least talk about something not so offensive.

Volcana
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:05 AM
Among the coaches of active players, not many have coached player to ten slam singles wins, plus four of five slams in doubles and another four in mixed. As it happens, the two caoches they have happen to have GREAT records.

I might add, R & O have never been averse inthe past to bringing in other coaching talent. Rick Macci has worked with Venus. BJK as well. Further, Venus and Serena are adults, not children. Richard is absolutely right when he say e HE works for THEM. If they want to bring in someone else, they will. Their parents have long since shown them the example that bringing in other coaches can help, by bringing in other coaches in the past.

Sportfan
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:12 AM
Among the coaches of active players, not many have coached player to ten slam singles wins, plus four of five slams in doubles and another four in mixed. As it happens, the two caoches they have happen to have GREAT records.

I might add, R & O have never been averse inthe past to bringing in other coaching talent. Rick Macci has worked with Venus. BJK as well. Further, Venus and Serena are adults, not children. Richard is absolutely right when he say e HE works for THEM. If they want to bring in someone else, they will. Their parents have long since shown them the example that bringing in other coaches can help, by bringing in other coaches in the past.
:worship:

Butchwax
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:28 AM
Richard, come on. A forehand coach will not break up any family unty.

At least now I know why V&S wont get outside coaching: They're either scared of what Richard will say or dont want the guilt that he will obviously place on them should they seek outside help. Ahhh....

Great Post!!
Richard has issues and doesn't have a grip on reality. All you ever hear is black this and black that. The fact is, there are a lot of black players on the tour but they don't have that negetive attitude surrounding them.

Most people I talk to at the at the club level don't have very positive things to say about the Williams family and it's not because of their race, it's more about their attitude. This is why a lot of people say they are bad for tennis. :bounce: :bounce:

Leo_DFP
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:31 AM
Richard is back... And I don't happen to agree with him.

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:31 AM
Great Post!!
Richard has issues and doesn't have a grip on reality. All you ever hear is black this and black that. The fact is, there are a lot of black players on the tour but they don't have that negetive attitude surrounding them.

Most people I talk to at the at the club level don't have very positive things to say about the Williams family and it's not because of their race, it's more about their attitude. This is why a lot of people say they are bad for tennis. :bounce: :bounce:

That is a copout for whites who don't like blacks who don't take shit off of white people. And the Williams family DO NOT take shit off of any white person and that is hard for the average white person to deal with.

Knizzle
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:32 AM
That is a copout for whites who don't like blacks who don't take shit off of white people. And the Williams family DO NOT take shit off of any white person and that is hard for the average white person to deal with.
PREACH!! :worship:

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:34 AM
PREACH!! :worship:

Thank you.:kiss:

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:35 AM
AMEN!! :worship:

Thanks again.:kiss: :kiss:

cool bird
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:39 AM
Well its good Venus dont take the same view abotu white people as there dad and you guys. snice they are dating two of them

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:41 AM
Well its good Venus dont take the same view abotu white people as there dad and you guys. snice they are dating two of them

True, but I bet they (the white guys) don't do a damn thing to piss the sisters off because I know who will be on the short end of that argument.

Infiniti2001
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:41 AM
Great Post!!
Richard has issues and doesn't have a grip on reality. All you ever hear is black this and black that. The fact is, there are a lot of black players on the tour but they don't have that negetive attitude surrounding them.

Most people I talk to at the at the club level don't have very positive things to say about the Williams family and it's not because of their race, it's more about their attitude. This is why a lot of people say they are bad for tennis. :bounce: :bounce:

The usual drivel. Club people have some of the worse attitudes on the planet , so try again :rolleyes:

cool bird
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:44 AM
Lizchris what is your point there.

dreamgoddess099
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:52 AM
Wouldn't you want to use all help available from daddy or from Joe Blow to be back to #1? Why is this such an issue?
Because people are assuming that Venus would benefit from having another coach, which isn't entirely true. Venus has had other coaches in the past and all they did was write books telling the families business. Can you really blame Venus for not trusting anybody else but her folks? The reason certain people in the tennis establishment want Venus and Serena to get other coaches is so they can milk those coaches for Williams secret family info. They can't crack the Williams family shell for more dirt because Richard won't allow it. That hate that he has Venus and Serena's total faith and respect, they just see it as him controlling them. Venus and Serena work with their parents because they WANT TO. What is getting another coach going to do? If Venus doesn't want to work with another coach then she's not going to listen to them, and if she doesn't listen to that coach, how can he/she help Venus? The desire to want to improve has to be made by Venus and Venus alone, no coach can help anybody unless that person is willing to be helped. Richard is coaching Venus correctly, it's just that Venus hasn't been listening. And Venus has admitted that herself. Venus needs to keep training so she can stay healthy and continue to improve. She can do that with or without a coach.

Spain-Moonballer
Sep 7th, 2004, 05:18 AM
Tracy just said a professional "thing" about what Wsisters should work on in the game.It's true what she said about them. a true coach will not break up the family! it's something part of the job! this sound like paranoia by Richard! I'm sure ms Austin didn't want at all to start a fight vs Wfamily and been a victim is feel sorry for your self which is pathetic! when Richard said that all this are cause they're are black-REAL PATHETIC RICHARD!

JenCpLvr
Sep 7th, 2004, 05:19 AM
How can those of you that are African American support a man like Richard Williams??? He is a disgrace to the black community and his choice to "speak on behalf" of all blacks is asinine..
How can you appreciate such generalized ignorance? I would dislike him even more if I were an african american... My god!

Siyasema
Sep 7th, 2004, 05:23 AM
How can those of you that are African American support a man like Richard Williams??? He is a disgrace to the black community and his choice to "speak on behalf" of all blacks is asinine..
How can you appreciate such generalized ignorance? I would dislike him even more if I were an african american... My god!
Richard Williams doesn't speak for anyone but himself. He is not the national spokesman for anything black or African American. Trying to link him to a universal or single minded thought process for a whole racial community is ridiculous let alone asinine!

tennisiscool
Sep 7th, 2004, 05:23 AM
Just a question , Did Richard Williams have a formal education while growing up ? :)

JenCpLvr
Sep 7th, 2004, 05:51 AM
Richard Williams doesn't speak for anyone but himself. He is not the national spokesman for anything black or African American. Trying to link him to a universal or single minded thought process for a whole racial community is ridiculous let alone asinine!
He has made several statements in the past such as "My people have always been treated poorly at these events" and is forever making blanket statements about feeling that "his race" has.. Why you can't see that, I don't know.. This man shouts ignorance :rolleyes: