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backhanddtl4
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:20 PM
Does she even train anymore???? She isn't getting better, and her serve is terrible. She can't get a first serve in on game points and she isn't confident anymore either. On the run...her forehand is usually an easy feed for any player to eat up and she doesn't come to net on shots that she could.

I'm starting to wonder if she wants to win. On court, it doens't look like she wants to be there. I still like Venus, but she's got to get her head in the game, and her ass on the practice courts. :o

starr
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:22 PM
Lindsay hasn't won yet. :)

I don't doubt Venus's desire to win. She might not be sure about what she needs to do to get back to a winning form. Or she might be sure what to do, but be wrong.

jbone_0307
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:24 PM
At this point of the year, I could care less. Has she even defeated a top 10 player this year??? She just needs to concentrate on next year, and come out firing in Australia.

bandabou
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:28 PM
Dissapointing year for Venus....NO Sfs at any major, losing before the SFs for the first time at the Open.

Funny thing is that Venus has done better this year on her historically weakest surface and on her best surfaces she hasnt done a thing.

backhanddtl4
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:45 PM
Did I mention she can't convert break points.....or return serve period

starr
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:48 PM
Does anyone still doubt Venus's desire to win? She fought in that last game tooth and nail. She played better there with her back against the wall than the whole match.

I don't dispute that Venus needs to improve. All players have to make their games better all the time because the game moves forward. Remain at the same level, and the game will pass you by no matter how great you are. I think Venus just doesn't exactly know what it is she needs to do.

But, the problems I see are the problems that have been there all along even when she was winning. Footwork, forehand technique, and second serve. Personally, I'd like her to work simply on footwork for about 4 months solid and see what the results were.

bandabou
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:51 PM
She works sooooo hard to get to bp and then misses the easiest balls after that......Lindsay hit tooo many second serves for her to have won that last game.

backhanddtl4
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:57 PM
If she had desire to win, she'd work on her tactics, second serve, and forehand.

Venus Forever
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:21 AM
Venus' return and serve just completely failed her today, although Lindsay was serving very well, but still, she was doing nothing with the second serves she was getting.

All those second serves Venus had to hit, and all those first serves Lindsay got in was what gave the advantage to Lindsay straight off the back in every rally.

The problem with Venus' serve, as I see it now, is not just the second serve (which has improved a bit), but the first serve as well. She has NO DIRECTION on the ball whatsoever, just speed. She, more often than not, hits the first serve right to her opponent, and no where near the lines, as Hawkeye showed two days ago with her match against Chanda.

If this loss doesn't inspire Venus, I don't know what to say. I mean, come on, first loss before SF at the Open, and no SF in ANY slams this year, not to mention not ONE victory over a top 10 player while they were in the top 10.

Go back to the drawing board Venus, and seriously contemplate your game.

jbone_0307
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:25 AM
She just needs to start on a clean slate, next year and things will eventually come into place.

Butchwax
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:41 AM
At this point of the year, I could care less. Has she even defeated a top 10 player this year??? She just needs to concentrate on next year, and come out firing in Australia.

Venus and Serena are no longer top contenders and nerver will be again. Best they retire and find something else to do with their time. :bounce:

thelittlestelf
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:42 AM
She's been through a lot, and she could still beat most if not all of you 60 60 :).

Jasmin
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:44 AM
Still a fan but I feel like Venus has had her day. Maybe one day she will have a streak like Lindsay but that's probably in the future if she sticks around.

Sportfan
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:03 AM
I don't know what match you were watching but it was obvious Venus wanted to win. She lost the match due to some untimely errors if you want to kick her while she is down be my guest but it is not going to serve any purpose imo. Rooting for Venus to finish off her season strong and have a great 2005.

BK4ever
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:54 AM
The problem with Venus' serve, as I see it now, is not just the second serve (which has improved a bit), but the first serve as well. She has NO DIRECTION on the ball whatsoever, just speed. She, more often than not, hits the first serve right to her opponent, and no where near the lines, as Hawkeye showed two days ago with her match against Chanda.

If this loss doesn't inspire Venus, I don't know what to say. I mean, come on, first loss before SF at the Open, and no SF in ANY slams this year, not to mention not ONE victory over a top 10 player while they were in the top 10.

Go back to the drawing board Venus, and seriously contemplate your game.
Tonight while I was watching this match...I said to my friend...the biggest problem for Vee in this match is her serve direction. I totally agree with you and I'm glad someone else noticed it...she rarely ever goes out wide or down the tee anymore...she hits it almost in the same spot everytime. Everyone is talking about her FH but their were lots of points tonight where her FH was amazing...she probably hit more winners off it than her BH. The problem with her FH is not as serious as it appears, she just needs to concentrate more on the shot and hit thru...whenever she tries to guide the ball...she always falters.

Another major issue tonight was that she played a tactically stupid match...she didnt move Lindsay around at all....and she was missing EASY shots left and right. I was in the stands tonight and I really wanted her to win..mostly because you could count the amount of people that were cheering for her...

I don't know how many more loses she has to endure for her to change something...but I almost feel like she should take the rest of the year off and re-examine what she wants to do because its heartbreaking watching her lose like that.

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 02:55 AM
It's difficult for Venus to move Lindsay around when Lindsay is moving Venus around. :)

Also it's difficult to move someone around if every fourth shot is missing.

Venus Forever
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:20 AM
Tonight while I was watching this match...I said to my friend...the biggest problem for Vee in this match is her serve direction. I totally agree with you and I'm glad someone else noticed it...she rarely ever goes out wide or down the tee anymore...she hits it almost in the same spot everytime. Everyone is talking about her FH but their were lots of points tonight where her FH was amazing...she probably hit more winners off it than her BH. The problem with her FH is not as serious as it appears, she just needs to concentrate more on the shot and hit thru...whenever she tries to guide the ball...she always falters.

Another major issue tonight was that she played a tactically stupid match...she didnt move Lindsay around at all....and she was missing EASY shots left and right. I was in the stands tonight and I really wanted her to win..mostly because you could count the amount of people that were cheering for her...

I don't know how many more loses she has to endure for her to change something...but I almost feel like she should take the rest of the year off and re-examine what she wants to do because its heartbreaking watching her lose like that.
Totally agree.

WF4EVER
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:52 AM
You know, whenever I read on these boards that there's nothing wrong with Venus' game and all she has to do is be healthy and practice I really sadden because Venus has also bought into this mentality that this is all she needs to do.

How can anyone look at Vee and not see how much improvement she can make right now in order to make herself a formidable force on the tour again?

Butchwax
Sep 7th, 2004, 04:24 AM
This is part of her problem and she's too proud to fix it.
http://www.gotennis.com/Photos/2004-09-06T215602Z_01_USO139D_RTRIDSP_2_SPORT-TENNIS.jpg
Her service motion is the worst in the game.