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View Full Version : Who has had the best career? Sugiyama, Schnyder, Kournikova


GoGoMaggie
Jul 27th, 2004, 06:55 AM
They have idenical careers. They have all been ranked top ten for not so long a period of time.

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 06:57 AM
Schnyder obviously, cause she is the best one in singles by far only not so mental tough.
Sugiyama can only win doubles with clijsters and thanks to clijsters.
Same for Anna K but then with martina H.

GoGoMaggie
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:06 AM
Schnyder obviously, cause she is the best one in singles by far only not so mental tough.
Sugiyama can only win doubles with clijsters and thanks to clijsters.
Same for Anna K but then with martina H.
Thanks to Clijsters? That's the dumbest thing I have heard in a while.
Kim should be the one that is grateful to Ai for sharing those GS trophies. Without a doubt Ai is the better doubles player of the two.

switz
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:07 AM
i'd probably prefer to be a big fan of ai instead of patty and anna, but putting as much bias aside as possible i would probably say patty if we are talking only singles. i would base that solely on the fact that she has beaten like 16 of the current top 19 (with 4 three sets against justine, 1 versus venus, and 1 versus sharapova on grass and hasn't played sprem), has a GS semi and 2 quarters and a hell of a lot of 4th rounds, and has made some very big names looks foolish eg Mauresmo 6-2, 6-2 in Zurich last year, Myskina 6-1, 6-1 in Linz last year, Davenport 6-3, 6-2 and Dementieva 6-3, 6-1 in Charleston this year. she has the capacity to dominate almost any player given the right circumstances IMO, like she showed at RG last year when she won the 2nd against henin 6-2 playing flawless tennis. she beats anna i think because she is still a top player and within reach of a top ten ranking.

i can understand that some might disagree though. obviously if doubles is considered then she is blown out, but as jesper said she never played with the quality of partner as ai or anna. her doubles career is not bad though i have to say.

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:11 AM
Thanks to Clijsters? That's the dumbest thing I have heard in a while.
Kim should be the one that is grateful to Ai for sharing those GS trophies. Without a doubt Ai is the better doubles player of the two.

Damn how many drugs did you take???

Ai is not even capable of standing up against hard-hitting great players. She is not good enough on her one in doubles like suares, or ruano-p and in singles cannot compete against really good players( in general).
She is just steady enough that with a really good partner she can win a slam
She is what pam shriver was for martina, just steady enough to let Kim play her shots

switz
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:12 AM
Thanks to Clijsters? That's the dumbest thing I have heard in a while.
Kim should be the one that is grateful to Ai for sharing those GS trophies. Without a doubt Ai is the better doubles player of the two.

ai is definitely the better traditional doubles player, but that really doesn't matter any more. pierce and mauresmo are also not as good at the art of doubles as ai and yet they beat her and shinobu easily today. suarez and VRP are the dominant team today and they are baseliners. the same can be said of the williams sisters, as it's their power, not their skills in doubles that makes them a champion team. power as taken away from what doubles used to be, and that's why clijsters would be a more successful in doubles than aiwould be today.

GoGoMaggie
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:14 AM
Schnyder obviously, cause she is the best one in singles by far only not so mental tough.
Sugiyama can only win doubles with clijsters and thanks to clijsters.
Same for Anna K but then with martina H.
You really need to follow the game and its history more closely.
Ai won a GS title teaming up with Julie Halard and just made the Wimbledon final with a horriblying playing Huber. I saw the final and Ai played great and good enough to deserve the title. I would say she was the best of the four on the court. It was Huber who destroyed her hope. No offence to Liesel but as she herself admitted after the match, she should be sorry for Ai.

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:17 AM
first of all who were there at wimbledon doubles this year??? or better who didn't play
And Halard was the hard--hitting strong girl that Ai can't win without!
And Huber is pretty bad, she is for Ai what Ai was for Kim

GoGoMaggie
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:18 AM
ai is definitely the better traditional doubles player, but that really doesn't matter any more. pierce and mauresmo are also not as good at the art of doubles as ai and yet they beat her and shinobu easily today. suarez and VRP are the dominant team today and they are baseliners. the same can be said of the williams sisters, as it's their power, not their skills in doubles that makes them a champion team. power as taken away from what doubles used to be, and that's why clijsters would be a more successful in doubles than aiwould be today.
Sorry but I can't agree with you. I don't think Kim would be nearly as successful if she teamed up with anyone else. It's true their games complemented each other's game but then Ai was more versile and had the game that suited doubles. Ai has played many different players with different play styles yet she has always managed to produce good results. Honestly I'm totally disappointed in her for losing Amlie and Mary in doubles who are supposedly not good at doubles. I'm sure Shinobu was more of a fator for their loss.
It's foolish to say Kim is better at doubles than Ai. Kim hasn't had any impressive result in doubles other than playing with Ai.

switz
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:20 AM
i think jesper is underrating ai and VS fan is underrating clijsters. they are both very good in their own ways

GoGoMaggie
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:21 AM
first of all who were there at wimbledon doubles this year??? or better who didn't play
And Halard was the hard--hitting strong girl that Ai can't win without!
And Huber is pretty bad, she is for Ai what Ai was for Kim
Pre much everyone was there except the sisters obviously.
They (Ai and Liesel) beat the best doubles team (Vivi and Paola) so you're totally in denial. It's just dumb as hell to say Kim was carrying Ai in their partnership cuz it's obviously the other way around.

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:22 AM
yeah they are both good at different things, Kim as a tremendous tennisplayer in general and Ai in being without much talent and still being able to become a decent player

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:23 AM
she really is the new born Pam S!!!!

SerenaVenusNo1
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:24 AM
Schnyder has the best case. More titles, more IMPORTANT titles, and a higher top ranking. Plus, a Slam SF too, which matches Anna's best result in the majors.

GoGoMaggie
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:24 AM
yeah they are both good at different things, Kim as a tremendous tennisplayer in general and Ai in being without much talent and still being able to become a decent player
One thing annoying about your posts is you always try to discredit Ai saying stuff like she has little talent.
In a way Ai is more talented than Kim I believe.

switz
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:24 AM
clijster's played hardly any doubles with anyone else. i never said clijsters was better, but the fact is that ai is very much a combination player - paired with the wrong person she can be quite unsuccessful in doubles as happened when she first played with halard, then with arendt when halard retired, and with huber many time throughout this year. besides maybe fugiwara (who she had good but not outstanding results with) clijsters is the only player who she has had immediate success with and i think that says something significant.

SerenaVenusNo1
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:25 AM
In a way Ai is more talented than Kim I believe.

what way would that be?

Chris_G
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:25 AM
Sugiyama is the least talented of the three, but if their careers end today, she finishes with the best all around resume. They've all got the same career high singles ranking and she's had the best doubles career, succeeding with a variety of partners. Even before she started playing with Halard-Decugis, she won a bunch of titles with Likhovtseva.

tennisIlove09
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:26 AM
Schnyder
Sugiyama
Kournikova

in that order

GoGoMaggie
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:26 AM
Schnyder has the best case. More titles, more IMPORTANT titles, and a higher top ranking. Plus, a Slam SF too, which matches Anna's best result in the majors.
Not so fast. Ai is the most consistent of the three. Getting big results isn't all about tennis or beating many top players. Schnyder may be the most talented and is the best at her best but she has lost more should-won matches than Ai meaning she has lost to so many nobodies. It seems the world always discredits one's consistency in sports.

SerenaVenusNo1
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:29 AM
Not so fast. Ai is the most consistent of the three. Getting big results isn't all about tennis or beating many top players. Schnyder may be the most talented and is the best at her best but she has lost more should-won matches than Ai meaning she has lost to so many nobodies. It seems the world always discredits one's consistency in sports.

Dude, consistency is unimportant. Players are judged by their best results. Ai has been consistently in the top 50 just as Mashona Washington has been consistently in top 200. So what?

Sugiyama doesn't have the results to match Schnyder. It's really not even close. Don't make me bust out the numbers.

SerenaVenusNo1
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:30 AM
I mean, you say she's more consistent. You're right. She's been consistently worse than Schnyder.

switz
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:32 AM
Not so fast. Ai is the most consistent of the three. Getting big results isn't all about tennis or beating many top players. Schnyder may be the most talented and is the best at her best but she has lost more should-won matches than Ai meaning she has lost to so many nobodies. It seems the world always discredits one's consistency in sports.

one thing that annoys me about you is that this thread seems to have been created solely so you can argue with anyone who doesn't think ai has had the best career. why not just start a thread saying "Sugiyama has had a better career than Schnyder and Kournikova"? it would be more honest because clearly you don't actually want to know people's opinion.

GoGoMaggie
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:32 AM
I mean, you say she's more consistent. You're right. She's been consistently worse than Schnyder.
She has been better than Schnyder more than a year.

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:33 AM
Pre much everyone was there except the sisters obviously.
They (Ai and Liesel) beat the best doubles team (Vivi and Paola) so you're totally in denial. It's just dumb as hell to say Kim was carrying Ai in their partnership cuz it's obviously the other way around.

She can only beat a doubles team like that because it has no real hard-hitting top singles player in it! Then she can do some harm, then if vivi plays with a better talented player then suarez like Conchi M they beat ai eventhough they never play togeter(like last week)

SerenaVenusNo1
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:33 AM
She has been better than Schnyder more than a year.

Why don't you compare their career accomplishments? As that is stipulated by the thread title as what we are discussing.

switz
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:35 AM
suarez also didn't play a match until this week after that match because her hand was injured.

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:35 AM
One thing annoying about your posts is you always try to discredit Ai saying stuff like she has little talent.
In a way Ai is more talented than Kim I believe.

And that is bad sportsmanship, like the match against schiavone last week proved, with her mother coaching her
She probably can make fried rice with potstickers better then Kim as well

switz
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:36 AM
why does every thread mentioning patty need to have some kind of negative comment. i can't remember the last completely pleasant thread about her. it sucks

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:39 AM
I think Patty is cute, plays extremely pretty tennis and is a personality. With that i mean she does what she wants to try out and is not afraid to say things(you disgusting bitch to Conchi M was in my opinion one of the funniest things ever said on court. Can anybody think of annything funny Ai s or Anna K said

GoGoMaggie
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:40 AM
And that is bad sportsmanship, like the match against schiavone last week proved, with her mother coaching her
She probably can make fried rice with potstickers better then Kim as well
I can think of only one thing why you don't like Ai.

GoGoMaggie
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:40 AM
I think Patty is cute, plays extremely pretty tennis and is a personality. With that i mean she does what she wants to try out and is not afraid to say things(you disgusting bitch to Conchi M was in my opinion one of the funniest things ever said on court. Can anybody think of annything funny Ai s or Anna K said
You like Patty's face and not Ai's. That's the end of ths story, fucktard.

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:41 AM
Im a fucking queer homosexual so it's definitely not only that

GoGoMaggie
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:43 AM
Im a fucking queer homosexual so it's definitely not only that
You're too stupid to realize yourown stupidity

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:57 AM
You're too stupid to realize yourown stupidity

Just had a look at the players you are a fan of and except Maggy M i dislike all of them and i think thast you must be asian how could you otherwise have prakusya and tanasugarn on your list. Tammy T should not eat that much take out chinese anyway then she might be any good

GoGoMaggie
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:00 AM
Just had a look at the players you are a fan of and except Maggy M i dislike all of them and i think thast you must be asian how could you otherwise have prakusya and tanasugarn on your list. Tammy T should not eat that much take out chinese anyway then she might be any good
I was exactly right about what I thought you were.

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:01 AM
ok and that is.....

GoGoMaggie
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:04 AM
You're so ... put any adjective you think will best describe you.

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:06 AM
please dont say racist cuase that's bullshit
i used to be a fan of Lori McNeil, Zina Garrison Jackson, Kimiko Date and Naoko Sawamatsu so that would be a bit extraordinary dont you think

GoGoMaggie
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:08 AM
please dont say racist cuase that's bullshit
i used to be a fan of Lori McNeil, Zina Garrison Jackson, Kimiko Date and Naoko Sawamatsu so that would be a bit extraordinary dont you think
???

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:08 AM
i thought thats what you meant

switz
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:09 AM
glad to see the quality of this thread picked up since i went away.

some of things being said are very inappropriate/immature/racist IMO.

i really like ai and i admire what she has achieved in a game dominated by big hitters. i just don't think she has had the singles career patty has had. it upsets me that it is even close really because patty should have achieved so much more than she has. i can only hope that she will bring it all together some day soon and play consistantly at the level she is capable of - she is only 25 lets remember so her career is far from over.

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:10 AM
what is racist about what i said?????

GoGoMaggie
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:11 AM
Jesper I don't think you are a racist.
You're hilarious in a way.

switz
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:13 AM
the fried rice comment - very old fashioned racism and demeaning + the comment about VSfan's favourites and how only an asian could support them. it indirect and i not saying you are A racist, but those comments were not called.

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:18 AM
first of all Kim is probably better at baking Begian waffels to even that one out and honestly Prakusya as a favourite is pretty much a give away right

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:19 AM
Jesper I don't think you are a racist.
You're hilarious in a way.

:hearts: :hearts:

switz
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:23 AM
i'm not going to get into that whole what makes a racist debate. i'm happy to accept that it wasn't meant they way i interpreted it.

Veritas
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:26 AM
Schnyder obviously, cause she is the best one in singles by far only not so mental tough.
Sugiyama can only win doubles with clijsters and thanks to clijsters.
Same for Anna K but then with martina H.

If Kim was the one "responsible" for 2 of Ai's doubles Slam titles, then why in the world hasn't she won a doubles slam herself when she partners with other players?

She has yet to prove that she can reach even a doubles GS final w/o Ai.

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:28 AM
If Kim was the one "responsible" for 2 of Ai's doubles Slam titles, then why in the world hasn't she won a doubles slam herself when she partners with other players?

She has yet to prove that she can reach even a doubles GS final w/o Ai.

well after Ai she was either not playing doubles or injured before Ai she wasnt the super player she is now

Veritas
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:30 AM
And that is bad sportsmanship, like the match against schiavone last week proved, with her mother coaching her
She probably can make fried rice with potstickers better then Kim as well

:haha:

Since when did Ai's mom "coach" her during her match against Schiavone at the JP Morgan Open?

Oh, and Schiavone isn't exactly the pinnacle of terrific sporting behaviour as well.

Veritas
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:31 AM
well after Ai she was either not playing doubles or injured before Ai she wasnt the super player she is now

Uh, Kim has played quite a few doubles matches before she even partnered up with Ai.

Veritas
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:36 AM
Just had a look at the players you are a fan of and except Maggy M i dislike all of them and i think thast you must be asian how could you otherwise have prakusya and tanasugarn on your list. Tammy T should not eat that much take out chinese anyway then she might be any good

Right. ONLY Asian tennis fans are allowed to support tennis players with yellow skin. It must be wrong and evil for Caucasians to even think about supporting an Asian personnel.

What a wonderful world we must be living in.

ghosts
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:38 AM
Anna of course

GoGoMaggie
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:39 AM
Right. ONLY Asian tennis fans are allowed to support tennis players with yellow skin. It must be wrong and evil for Caucasians to even think about supporting an Asian personnel.

What a wonderful world we must be living in.
By the way, dismal, have you heard of this latest Japanese drama series, Sekaino chushinde Ai wo sakebu (Shout love in the middle of the world)?

switz
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:39 AM
the funny thing is that people talk about them as if they are totally equal but the reality is that kim is 20, patty is 25, anna is 24, and ai is 29.

i like ai a lot more than kim but i can't go past the fact that clijsters is a much better singles player than ai, and good singles players these days just are not bad doubles doubles players because doubles is now just singles with 2 people on each side of the court. when they used wooden racquets ai would be an infinitely better player, but these days i just don't see it.

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:42 AM
Uh, Kim has played quite a few doubles matches before she even partnered up with Ai.


i know and thats why i wrote that before teaming with Ai she wasnt as good as she was after/during playing with ai

Veritas
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:44 AM
By the way, dismal, have you heard of this latest Japanese drama series, Sekaino chushinde Ai wo sakebu (Shout love in the middle of the world)?

Nope. I haven't watched much TV lately, esp. since second Semester at my Uni just started.

But my brother's got a Japanese exchange student (from Daisho Gakuen, an Osaka-based high-school) coming in this Thursday, so maybe I'll ask him more about what's going on in the J-Entertainment industry these days.

GoGoMaggie
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:48 AM
Nope. I haven't watched much TV lately, esp. since second Semester at my Uni just started.

But my brother's got a Japanese exchange student (from Daisho Gakuen, an Osaka-based high-school) coming in this Thursday, so maybe I'll ask him more about what's going on in the J-Entertainment industry these days.
Is that school name correct? I live in Osaka and teach at high school here but.. don't know that school.. Is it a private school?

Veritas
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:50 AM
the funny thing is that people talk about them as if they are totally equal but the reality is that kim is 20, patty is 25, anna is 24, and ai is 29.

i like ai a lot more than kim but i can't go past the fact that clijsters is a much better singles player than ai, and good singles players these days just are not bad doubles doubles players because doubles is now just singles with 2 people on each side of the court. when they used wooden racquets ai would be an infinitely better player, but these days i just don't see it.

I agree with the age comparisons, since I do reckon that Patty has achieved more than what Anna and Ai have done in a shorter space of time. But IMO, it's not even right to bring Anna into the equation in the first place, when she dropped out of the Tour when she was only 22 and hasn't played an official pro match for 2 years.

Also, I agree that for Ai to really shine in doubles, having the right partner is a crucial part of her success. Julie, Kim and to a lesser extent, Rika, did contribute a lot to Ai's doubles heights, since I believe that w/o them, Ai would not have had 3 doubles Slams today.

But don't forget that even with "lesser" partners, like Leizel, Ai has posted fairly strong doubles results (btw, I like Leizel a lot, but let's face it, she just ain't "clicking" with Ai, esp. since they've only won one title together).

Sharapower
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:50 AM
Depends what is a "good carreer" :
- if it's about money, it's Anna of course,
- if it's about single titles, skills and results it's Patty,
- if it's about having a sound life on the tour and winning her share of doubles big titles and some singles it's Ai.

Veritas
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:52 AM
Is that school name correct? I live in Osaka and teach at high school here but.. don't know that school.. Is it a private school?

I'm fairly sure I got the spelling correct. It's an all-guy, Senior-high school, and I don't know whether it's a private school or not, since every school in Japan requires similar unforms.

GoGoMaggie
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:56 AM
I'm fairly sure I got the spelling correct. It's an all-guy, Senior-high school, and I don't know whether it's a private school or not, since every school in Japan requires similar unforms.
I'm pretty sure it's a private school cuz many private schools have "gakuen" in their names.
I also teach at a private school and should know pre much every one of them in Osaka... well..

Veritas
Jul 27th, 2004, 09:00 AM
I'm pretty sure it's a private school cuz many private schools have "gakuen" in their names.
I also teach at a private school and should know pre much every one of them in Osaka... well..

Trust me...that school exists. Maybe it's too small and unimportant to be well-known, but it's there.

Btw, what do you teach?

GoGoMaggie
Jul 27th, 2004, 09:06 AM
Yeah you were right. I just found the school on the net and it seems quite active in international exchanges. It's good to be a small school IMO since I work in a huge school myself and find it quite complicated and at times frustrating.

switz
Jul 27th, 2004, 10:03 AM
But don't forget that even with "lesser" partners, like Leizel, Ai has posted fairly strong doubles results (btw, I like Leizel a lot, but let's face it, she just ain't "clicking" with Ai, esp. since they've only won one title together).

i would never doubt the fact that ai is a fantastic doubles player. i also believe she is not given the credit she deserves as a singles player.

vogus
Jul 27th, 2004, 10:22 AM
If you throw out the the bunch of Tier 4 titles Patty won right at the start of her career (which aren't very meaningful), Anna and Patty have a nearly identical achievement record, Anna was significantly better than Patty in 1999-2000, but that is balanced by the fact that Anna has since then played three fewer years on tour. I would put them both a bit above Sugiyama, who has never been a really feared player by the big names.

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 10:28 AM
Was Anna K a tennisplayer??

vogus
Jul 27th, 2004, 10:32 AM
i don't know, was she? Why don't you do a little research and get back to us on that clever question.

jesper1979
Jul 27th, 2004, 10:33 AM
cannot find anything on her except some half nude pics, no tennis results though