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View Full Version : What Do you guys see Happening To Venus


cool bird
Jun 26th, 2004, 07:16 PM
I wanted to know what tennis fans who follow the game closely think will happen to Venus now.
I think personal Venus is at the start of a downwards slump. And I really think it is going to be pretty hard for her to get out of it.
Venus has no longer got a aura about her. And once that is lost it is very hard to get it back.

thelittlestelf
Jun 26th, 2004, 07:18 PM
I hope theres an all Williams final at the US Open so we can put these "slump" threads to rest.

Ballbuster
Jun 26th, 2004, 07:20 PM
I hope theres an all Williams final at the US Open so we can put these "slump" threads to rest.

Me too!

That'll do it.

Freewoman33
Jun 26th, 2004, 07:29 PM
I hope theres an all Williams final at the US Open so we can put these "slump" threads to rest.

Thank You.

Knizzle
Jun 26th, 2004, 07:31 PM
This aura bullshit means nothing. If you think Venus was just winning because of an aura, then you're delusional. All she needs to do is play better.

JoeB_UK
Jun 26th, 2004, 07:32 PM
no, she isnt on a slump. because she loses against sprem, her career is over? come on, sprem is a good player

VW#1
Jun 26th, 2004, 07:34 PM
I think Venus has had some bad luck at horrible moments. She finally got her groove right before the French Open and then hurts her ankle AGAIN. I'm not saying she didn't win because of that, but that definitely hampered her preparation before the French. Then she finally gets on her favorite surface but runs into a difficult 2nd round opponent and loses. I think all it will take is a month of maybe some good luck and staying uninjured for her to get back to form.

cool bird
Jun 26th, 2004, 07:39 PM
Some of the Williams fans I did expect you to put this thread down. But im not intrested in what you have to say.
I want to know what tennis fans think do they think she will ever get back to the top agin. People who follow the sport becuses they enjoy it not just becuses a williams plays it

SJW
Jun 26th, 2004, 07:43 PM
to be honest, now Venus no longer has an aura, she'll get beaten?

all the players that have beaten Venus this year have played great tennis. that cannot be denied. a hiccup, yes...she's having a tough time. she'll get out of it.

i'm gonna be evil and support Venus over Serena at the Open.

SilK
Jun 26th, 2004, 07:48 PM
I am a big big Williams fan. Both Venus and Serena... but the slump-bullshit, indeed, has to be DONE! Come on now. And, Sprem is getting way too little credit for her win. I think that people who say she didn't deserve to win didn't see the whole match...

Anywayz, Venus will be back. Just watch her...

bandabou
Jun 26th, 2004, 07:55 PM
Venus might never dominate again like she did in´00-´01, but to say that she´s over goes a bit too far. I think Venus still is good enough to win another major and keep winning other titles as well...she´s going through a rough patch now, but I think she´ll bounce back.

shtexas
Jun 26th, 2004, 08:03 PM
I am new here. My thoughts are as follows:

1. Venus was out 1/2 a year. The first tournaments back, she was rusty.

2. The losses she has had recently have been to players that didn't have a history of losing to the Williams. Sprem is the perfect example. She led 3-0 in the Berlin semi before Venus came back and won. She carried that confidence, and excellent play, into their match in Wimbledon.

3. The murder of their sister. This is huge. I recently lost a close family member, and things that were so important at work don't seem so important anymore. I have been told that will change in time. I am guessing it will take time for Venus too.

I think any talk of a slide is premature, whatever the rankings may say. Give her some time to deal.

cool bird
Jun 26th, 2004, 08:06 PM
I did not mean to make it sound like Venus was over. I think Venus will get back in to the top ten. Im just not 100% sure she has the same passion for the game she once did

bandabou
Jun 26th, 2004, 08:12 PM
And yeah.....maybe the loss of their sister still is on their minds and they aren´t completely over it yet.

tennisIlove09
Jun 26th, 2004, 08:18 PM
She'll play tennis, and continue to be successful, and continue to make more money then most tennis players dream of. Oh, and she'll continue to the most talked about player in the game and on this board.

pigam
Jun 26th, 2004, 08:18 PM
And yeah.....maybe the loss of their sister still is on their minds and they aren´t completely over it yet.
that's what I said in another thread!!
People seems to realy under-estimate what that does to a person.
It's terrible when you lose someone, but imagine it beeing because he/she was murdered!!
Maybe it is because V&S don't like to talk about it in the press etc.
but really, I think it brushed aside to easily.

gweeny
Jun 26th, 2004, 08:20 PM
Venus will win 2 more slams. And call it quits by age 28.

Knizzle
Jun 26th, 2004, 08:23 PM
What's going to happen to Kim Clijsters?? Or Mauresmo?? What's happening to Davenport?? What's happening to Capriati??

maccardel
Jun 26th, 2004, 08:25 PM
I think it was more mental than is being let on. Come on now. If you remember correctly, Wimbledon was the last tourney that Yetunde attended to support them both and it must be a sad reminder when you look up into the stands and you don't see her and instead, you see her kids who are now going through the pain of missing her too. I thinks that the commentators don't want to acknowledge that to the fans. It is sad that they think the girls have gotten over Yetunde so easily.

cool bird
Jun 26th, 2004, 08:27 PM
Well knizzle Davenport will prob retire at the end of this year. MoMo will win two or three slams before she reatires of a injury. And Kim will play for a few more years then quite the game to become Mrs L Hewitt

Knizzle
Jun 26th, 2004, 08:29 PM
I honestly don't know how you can say that Momo will go one to win slams, but you aren't sure about Venus.

CJ07
Jun 26th, 2004, 08:37 PM
look, Venus is a champion. I don't recall a champion stopping winning at such an early age (with the exception of Monica Seles, but that was for a different reason)

cool bird
Jun 26th, 2004, 08:41 PM
Hey Im asking you what you think. I have an idea of what will happen nto Venus. You asked me I answered

SJW
Jun 26th, 2004, 08:46 PM
What's going to happen to Kim Clijsters?? Or Mauresmo?? What's happening to Davenport?? What's happening to Capriati??
Kim will come back at the end of the year a lil rusty. she'll finally win that elusive slam in the next two years
Mauresmo will still continue to be a headcase in Paris, but will start becoming more consistent with her great play.
Linzi will retire if she wins this years Wimbledon. if not here, and no slam by the end of next year she'll re-evaluate what she wants to do
Jennifer will continue to cause Serena fits, but unfortunately she's on her way down.

cool bird
Jun 26th, 2004, 08:52 PM
Kim will come back at the end of the year a lil rusty. she'll finally win that elusive slam in the next two years
Mauresmo will still continue to be a headcase in Paris, but will start becoming more consistent with her great play.
Linzi will retire if she wins this years Wimbledon. if not here, and no slam by the end of next year she'll re-evaluate what she wants to do
Jennifer will continue to cause Serena fits, but unfortunately she's on her way down.

Yep thats right. Hey SJW did you get my message to you in one of my post about my up coming marriage to James Blake :hearts: :drool: I just wanted to let you down easy :lol:

SJW
Jun 26th, 2004, 08:56 PM
Yep thats right. Hey SJW did you get my message to you in one of my post about my up coming marriage to James Blake :hearts: :drool: I just wanted to let you down easy :lol:
umm....no....which thread was it?

cool bird
Jun 26th, 2004, 08:59 PM
I cant remember what I titled it. It was about Serena and doctored photos

bandabou
Jun 26th, 2004, 09:05 PM
well if people are seeing the likes of Momo and Kim winning majors, while they don´t have any yet, then we shouldn´t worry about Venus who´s already proven she can win the biggies.

faste5683
Jun 26th, 2004, 09:06 PM
I wanted to know what tennis fans who follow the game closely think will happen to Venus now.
I think personal Venus is at the start of a downwards slump. And I really think it is going to be pretty hard for her to get out of it.
Venus has no longer got a aura about her. And once that is lost it is very hard to get it back.

I think Venus is looking better and better. That said, times change and the young guns never stop coming. Women's tennis is once again in transition: the young ones hit it as hard as the current stars; they're moving better than ever (Sprem, Sharapova), and serving big. Venus will always be a contender - she's just too damn good *not* to be - but I don't believe she'll ever dominate as she did several years ago.

That said, I don't believe that Serena, Justine, or KIm will be as invulnerable as they were previously, either.

:wavey:

hingis-seles
Jun 26th, 2004, 09:07 PM
Contrary to popular belief, Venus is only human like the rest of us. Like every other person, she has her highs and lows.

Never count out a true champion. That's why I'm not counting out Venus Williams....EVER!

joao
Jun 26th, 2004, 11:50 PM
Are we going to hear this kind of BS every time Venus loses a match?

If Capriati and Seles were able to come back from long time-outs and win GS, so will Venus. It's as simple as that!

People keep forgetting that before she was injured, Venus was reaching GS finals after GS finals (only losing to Serena). She still has the best GS-record among all active WTA players. She just needs some time to get back where she was ... so give her a break ... last time I checked she was #6 in the Race and will probably still be top8 after Wimbledon. Not too bad for a player who hasn't won a GS this year.

Leo_DFP
Jun 26th, 2004, 11:51 PM
I expect to see her back playing well next year and possibly a champion at Wimbledon or the US Open.

Black Mamba.
Jun 26th, 2004, 11:51 PM
She'll Bounce back this is one match, Sprem is a good player and could've beat any player in the top 5 with how she played.

jenny161185
Jun 26th, 2004, 11:54 PM
Venus will win some hardcourt tourneys and reach the final of the USOPEN at least

Robbie.
Jun 27th, 2004, 01:00 AM
The thing is that Venus has played 9 events this year, that is hardly a scarce amount for her or serena. She is definitely on course to play 15 + and that's a full year by her standards. So I don't like the "she hasn't played much" excuse.

It's not like players with just one kind of game are bothering her, either. She has been outsmarted by Raymond in Melbourne, outsteadied by Myskina in Paris and perhaps most significantly, outhit by Sprem at Wimbledon.


I've never seen anyone quite give Venus the runaround that Sprem did on Thursday, except Serena and maybe Lindsay on a few occassions early in their rivalry.

Losses this year to Kuznetsova, Dementieva, Myskina and Sprem shouldn't be dismissed, they are a sign that times are changing. I think when the Williams sisters were very dominant we were going through a very weak stage in tennis, that was obscured by the fact that the two sisters were just awesome athletes. I mean V&S were turning up with 80 % games a lot of the time and winning regardless. This year they have been turning up with 80% games and losing. Williams fans dismiss the diminishing "aura" of the sisters as a reason for this. However I see this as fundamental in that a lot of the main challenges in 2000-2002 were either so brow beaten by the sisters (Capriati, Hingis, Davenport), or had become elite players (clijsters, mauresmo, henin) amongst this culture of "Williams rules". Kuzentsova, Dementieva, Myskina and players like Sprem and Sharapova have become or are becoming elite players at a time when the Williams' have had an extended layoff and are below par, they are young and BELIEVE that they are good enough to beat them, they do not have the emotional baggage that their challenges in the glory days were burdened with. This is rubbing off on other players too; Capriati and co. Winning is going to become more difficult for the sisters not because their level of play has diminished markedly but because they are no longer going to be able to bring 80% games and still expect to beat girls in the top 20/30. I still think Venus Williams will win more slams, but she is going to have to commit herself to tennis completely and turn up with 90% + game most of the time.

cool bird
Jun 27th, 2004, 01:11 AM
Great post Robbie nIthink you are right

Bright Red
Jun 27th, 2004, 01:12 AM
I think Venus is looking better and better. That said, times change and the young guns never stop coming. Women's tennis is once again in transition: the young ones hit it as hard as the current stars; they're moving better than ever (Sprem, Sharapova), and serving big. Venus will always be a contender - she's just too damn good *not* to be - but I don't believe she'll ever dominate as she did several years ago.

That said, I don't believe that Serena, Justine, or KIm will be as invulnerable as they were previously, either.

:wavey:
This post pretty much captures my opinion. It's clear that the rest of the tour has practiced and raised its level. It's simply going to be harder and harder for anyone to dominate. During the Sprem match, I was thinking that two years ago, Venus's serve would have gotten her out of trouble against just about anyone. But Sprem was returning it without a problem - and she's not the only one who can do it. Sprem also hung with Venus in a couple of rallies that would have blown players away just a couple of years ago. I think this has to frustrate Venus...to realize that what used to work doesn't really cut it anymore.

Going forward, Venus will have to first regain her confidence. If she doesn't believe she's invincible, she'll suffer more and more defeats. Her play was extremely tentative against Sprem - it was almost like she was on clay. Second, she's going to have to add more weapons to her arsenal. She's blessed with speed, reach, court sense and an excellent first serve. She'll now have to enhance her net game and learn Serena's second serve. That'll move her ahead considerably. And then when these up-and-coming players goes all out against her expecting to have a chance to win, they'll be put back in their place.

volta
Jun 27th, 2004, 01:30 AM
i think that all those losts againts Serena hurted her mental strenght but she has to get over it and be stronger then ever before that´s why i always want her to match against Serena again. it´s all mental game Vee all mental.


*no i´m not bashing Serena or something like that cuz i love her 2 ok. ;)

Yonexforever
Jun 27th, 2004, 03:48 AM
Whether she dominates or NOT is irrelivant to me, How come no ones asks what has happened to Davenport, Crapriati,Seles or any of the former number 1's?
Everyone has their moment in the sun, and like most things tennis is cyclical.

Infiniti2001
Jun 27th, 2004, 04:06 AM
that's what I said in another thread!!
People seems to realy under-estimate what that does to a person.
It's terrible when you lose someone, but imagine it beeing because he/she was murdered!!
Maybe it is because V&S don't like to talk about it in the press etc.
but really, I think it brushed aside to easily.

I couldn't agree more. Venus is still recovering emotionally from her sister's death and just has her good and bad days . She's having a bad year overall and those things hit you in waves. One day you're ok, the next it doesn't seem worth it to fight that extra inch particularly when you've been robbed of a point
:fiery: :tape:
Let's see how she does this summer and into the fall. Everyone has slumps ----
It's way too soon to write her off.

Jane
Jun 27th, 2004, 04:21 AM
What happens next for Venus is all up to her. Her game is as good as it ever was. The problem is that a player has to constantly improve in order to maintain her position. Venus has certain obvious flaws in her game, either she decides to improve them or she doesn't. She either decides to incorporate additional weapons like improved net play, or she doesn't. It is all about her motivation to constantly improve. In the meantime, these loses will either erode her confidence or motivate her to work harder to improve her game. Venus is at a transitional point now. She has to decide how much she wants to be the best or whether she is content with her current level. I think we will know by early next year whether Venus will rise to the situation or not.
It is very difficult to rise to the top: It is even more difficult to stay there for an extended period. That is why I have always admired those players who have managed to stay at the top for more than a decade. Venus has achieved the firs part, now we will see if she is prepared for the second.

DemWilliamsGulls
Jun 27th, 2004, 07:43 AM
What's going to happen to Kim Clijsters?? Or Mauresmo?? What's happening to Davenport?? What's happening to Capriati??

Exactly...why dont people question when Andy Roddick, Justine Henin, Roger Federer, loose matches early in tournaments. Venus loose early for the first time in about 6 years...and now she's not able to win grand slams...that crazy...she will have I know at least 2 or 3 more slams....I personally think she really could have won all the grand slam finals against her sister, but she didnt play as hard because she wanted her sister to win.

~|Naomi|~
Jun 28th, 2004, 04:19 AM
Venus will get back to the top of the game, whether that is by the US Open of next years US Open, no body knows, but she has too much talent not to, and in the end she is going to make a lot of people who have written her off look like fools. I'm not a Venus fan, so I'm not saying this for that reason, but rather cause I believe she is without a doubt one of the best tennis players in the world, all she needs is time, and she can have as much time as she wants.

Sharapower
Jun 28th, 2004, 06:39 AM
It seems to me that Venus is not really motivated for tennis at the moment.
The question is "Will she find back some motivation soon or later ?"

Couver
Jun 28th, 2004, 06:48 AM
She'll announce her retirment the week after Wimbledon in a tearful goodbye and no one will miss her. :rolleyes:

Experimentee
Jun 28th, 2004, 06:49 AM
I think she lost a bit of mental strength because of her long abscence, but its not like she is having horrible losses. You have to admit all the players who beat her played great tennis and probbaly would have beaten other top players too. I think she'll be back and playing well again during the US hardcourt season. She'll be in the top 10, if not top 5 by the end of the year.

All4Williams
Jun 28th, 2004, 09:08 AM
Venus has no points to defend for the rest of year!!



Yes Venus finds Sprem's game a little tricky so she lost. Is she the first top player to have lost in the first or second round. The main thing is though that Sprem - Venus match is still the match of the tournament. The tennis was exceptional. It could have been a final.

Venus is still a top 4 player and she will be back.

volta
Jun 28th, 2004, 10:31 AM
to be honest, now Venus no longer has an aura, she'll get beaten?

all the players that have beaten Venus this year have played great tennis. that cannot be denied. a hiccup, yes...she's having a tough time. she'll get out of it.

i'm gonna be evil and support Venus over Serena at the Open.
me 2. i love them both but Vee now needs more my support.

mariok
Jun 28th, 2004, 10:36 AM
Venus has no points to defend for the rest of year!!



Yes Venus finds Sprem's game a little tricky so she lost. Is she the first top player to have lost in the first or second round. The main thing is though that Sprem - Venus match is still the match of the tournament. The tennis was exceptional. It could have been a final.

Venus is still a top 4 player and she will be back.

I agree! I don't understande why everyone expect venus (and serena) to be in the top form just like that. It's not only about playing good tennis, it's also about playing matches couple of months in a row. You cannot just come back and be on the same level you were before the injury or whatever... :rolleyes:

She's very talented, but is no God. Plus, her family had a lot to handle in the past couple of months, so... She'll be fine! top 10 100%, top 5 99%, top 3 75%, if you need numbers :lol:

saki
Jun 28th, 2004, 11:39 AM
It's been three years since Venus has won a slam. That's a long time in tennis. I know that it's partly because she's run up against a superior player (Serena) in Slam finals, partly injury, and partly the after-effects of her sister's death. However, that's still a long time since her last slam. She has a lot of work to do in order to get back to the top. She could certainly be a top-5 player again and pick up another couple of Wimbledon titles and a U.S. Open too, but she's far enough from her best days that she won't do that without work. Thus far, it hasn't looked as though she's ready to put that in. That could well change but, if it doesn't, she'll remain ranked somewhere between #8 and #15 until she retires. Sorry if this sounds harsh, Venus fans, I don't dislike her at all, but this is just what I see happening.

WF4EVER
Jun 28th, 2004, 11:55 AM
I don't question Venus' commitment to the game anymore. I don't know if other people see her diverse interests as a lack of commitment, but I certianly don't. Venus has no contractual obligations to her biggest sponsor anymore so I don't believe she is being forced to go out there and play. Also having suffered such a severe injury last year and coming back this year to play with injury after injury suggests to me that she wants to play tennis. How well she plays or has been playing is another story, but I'm convinced she's committed.

Here are my observations about the 2nd Round match and more importantly her performance this year.

I believe her opponent played a good match, she did what was necessary to win, but she did nothing special. She had a few good points and I mean beautifully hit shots, nice dropshots, etc, but she was not doing anyhting fantastic that a healthy and confident Venus wouldn't normally handle. Venus lost that match because she failed to be aggressive.

I wasso angry as I watched her constantly just lifting the ball over the net to get it in the court and not pushing the ball deep into the court. On another board someone suggested that perhaps Venus was playing a loopier ball so that her opponent wouldn't have any pace to work off of and that might very well be so but Venus had many opportunities to hit the ball deep and hard and she seemed afraid to do it; she just seemed docile. Whether she wasn't aware of it or was afraid to make a mistake is something only she can answer. In my mind her lack of aggression is what cost her that match. She served well, but when it came to returning the ball she just kept holding back and it wasn't like her opponent was forcing her back, but she was not pushing herself forward to hit that ball with any depth, and pace when it was necessary. This also suggests to me that Venus' belief is really low as well.

I only saw her match versus Sharapova about two weeks ago and if I had seen that match in January, I would have been convinced, like many, that Venus would win the AO. Long lay-off or not, Venus was looking really good. She started off slow in that match but once she had picked up on Sharapova'[s game she was in total control. Then she goes to OZ and gets injured; that's why she lost that match.

She said that she could already tell Lisa was coming out with an improved game from the warm-up, but because of Venus' injury she was clearly at a disadvantage to make the necessary adjustments, and while that was a very close score, I think that was the only other match this year that Venus had no control over the outcome. The other is her Dubai loss to Kuznetsova where she was clearly hampered by her injury and could not go toe-to-toe with her opponent.

All the other matches Venus has lost this year have been on her lack of focus and belief. She lost a match at Miami that she served for. Venus played one of the ugliest matches I've ever seen and still had the opportunity to win it. Her loss in Paris was also her own fault. She played another docile, unaggressive match, and blew break points in the final game to boot. She had set points in both sets at Wimbledon but failed to convert them on her own lack of belief thus resulting in ugly mistakes.

These say to me that Venus can win, but does she believe she can? I don't know.

Will Venus change? I tell oyu, Venus I think is one of the most stubborn people on earth and I love her but I don't believe she will. Changing means she'll have to let go of certain things that she doesn't think she can or ever will. Venus needs new coaching; she knows it. She doesn't need coaching on how to beat Serena; she needs coaching on how to improve her game. Don't you think she's heard it all before? Everytime she plays FEDCUP she hears it, but like my mother would say, it goes in one ear and comes out the next. The few weeks prior to, and after FedCup Venus is all ears and all excited to improve things in her game but as soon as FedCup wears off she forgets whatever she has been taught, and sadly enough, it doesn't seem as if her 'coaches' are trying to encourage her in the things Zina and BJK have taught her. Venus definitely needs a new coach, but I've heard Vee's excitement everytime she's in a team environment, or even after certain important wins, like before the 2000 and 2001 USO Finals. She's very patriotic; it's always the USA this or the USA that. If Venus is that patriotic to her country how do you think she feels towards her family? Getting a new coach means a certain break away from her family and Venus will never do it, IMO. ESpecially, especially since the recent loss of her sister, and can anyone of us blame her for that.

The only other thing she can do in a case like this is to impress upon herslef to do more of the things she has been taught by outsiders even while she stays under the wing of her parents' coaching and that might be tough on her; she needs her coaches to have her best interest and on the court I don't think they do.

I do not doubt Venus' ability to win but I do doubt her willingness to take that leap of faith. She cannot continue to play this kind of tennis and win, and believe me, she wants to win. She's not there for appearance fees or to PR her company, she wants to win, but so does everybody else. And if she intends to win, she has to make the necessary changes. I know in my heart that Venus is not satisfied with her results, whether they're as a result of injuries or being outplayed or whatever, Venus wants to win all the time, but she has to take her life into her own hands. She's 24 years old, for crying out loud, it's time to start looking out for Venus' interest. Serena's all grown up now and she doesn't need Venus to pave anything for her anymore, the Williams family is already rich so she doesn't have to earn an income to help support the family anymore.

It's time for Venus to start playing tennis like there's no pressure on her shoulders anymore, like she wants to be there, wants to compete and wants to win for Venus. It's time to do it for herself because she's already fulfilled her obligations to everyone else. Therefore she has to make a change.

bandabou
Jun 28th, 2004, 11:58 AM
Forehand and second-serve gotta improve....

esta
Jun 28th, 2004, 01:06 PM
I think the first thing Venus needs is confidence - in herself and in her ability to win matches, no matter how tight.

I watched her match against Sprem and she really wasn't playing with any confidence. A confident Venus would have won the set points she had in both sets.

Serendy Willick
Jun 28th, 2004, 06:40 PM
[QUOTE=Robbie.]I've never seen anyone quite give Venus the runaround that Sprem did on Thursday, except Serena and maybe Lindsay on a few occassions early in their rivalry.[QUOTE=Robbie.]

Give Venus the Run around?:rolleyes: :lol: If thats the case than I feel good about Venus chances. Had she converted on those set points and stood up for herself and not blown a 5-2 tiebreak lead in the second set, Venus still could've won that match.


[QUOTE=Robbie.]Losses this year to Kuznetsova, Dementieva, Myskina and Sprem shouldn't be dismissed, they are a sign that times are changing. I think when the Williams sisters were very dominant we were going through a very weak stage in tennis, that was obscured by the fact that the two sisters were just awesome athletes. I mean V&S were turning up with 80 % games a lot of the time and winning regardless. This year they have been turning up with 80% games and losing. Williams fans dismiss the diminishing "aura" of the sisters as a reason for this. However I see this as fundamental in that a lot of the main challenges in 2000-2002 were either so brow beaten by the sisters (Capriati, Hingis, Davenport), or had become elite players (clijsters, mauresmo, henin) amongst this culture of "Williams rules". Kuzentsova, Dementieva, Myskina and players like Sprem and Sharapova have become or are becoming elite players at a time when the Williams' have had an extended layoff and are below par, they are young and BELIEVE that they are good enough to beat them, they do not have the emotional baggage that their challenges in the glory days were burdened with. This is rubbing off on other players too; Capriati and co. Winning is going to become more difficult for the sisters not because their level of play has diminished markedly but because they are no longer going to be able to bring 80% games and still expect to beat girls in the top 20/30. I still think Venus Williams will win more slams, but she is going to have to commit herself to tennis completely and turn up with 90% + game most of the time[QUOTE=Robbie.]


Venus beat Kuznetsova this year and I dont think Dementieva is gonna be an elite anybody unless she gets a decent serve.:rolleyes: Myskina is also on a plane back to Russia. So before you proclaim and exalt these ladies on a pedestal due to one win, you need to consider the fact that (1. Neither of these ladies have been consistant and (2. The matches have to be played first.:rolleyes:

THE NET
Jun 28th, 2004, 06:45 PM
Part-time tennis player, hence, part-time result!! ;)

All4Williams
Jun 28th, 2004, 08:45 PM
Venus has done well this year. Can anyone imagine the mental strain of losing a loved one - bulleted to death. Carrying an abdominal strain etc. Will Venus be the first player to have missed a season or two due to injury and then come back strong no!

Sprem served very well each time she was a break down. It is a known fact - Venus is vulnerable in the early rounds. Sprem was just too good for a second round match and I really believe that she would have beaten anyone on the tour that night!

All4Williams
Jun 28th, 2004, 08:46 PM
Venus to me is afraid of going near the lines on big points. I wonder whether her reason is the same as mine.

TimBo
Jun 28th, 2004, 09:00 PM
Venus will be fine. Its just like the Chris-Martina era. Chris started out dominant, Martina raised the bar. Now, other girls are raising their level of play and now Venus will have to raise hers. When she does, she'll be fine.

Helen Lawson
Jun 28th, 2004, 09:01 PM
I see a string of flops in her future. Low-end endorsements, Lifetime TV movies where she is not even the lead, supporting roles in the Amityville horror series (and I mean like the FOURTH sequel only because Margot Kidder is too nutty to accept the role), embarassing cameos on bad tv shows, seeing her kids getting better film roles than she does (like in the Lord of the Rings Trilogy), her ex-husband marrying a much younger woman and turning into a Buddhist, having to write a book called "Call Me Anna" about her bi-polar disorder just to pay bills.

stacyh5
Jun 28th, 2004, 10:15 PM
Venus will be fine. Its just like the Chris-Martina era. Chris started out dominant, Martina raised the bar. Now, other girls are raising their level of play and now Venus will have to raise hers. When she does, she'll be fine.

When did Chris raise the bar? She did improve her fitness and strength, but as I recall, Martina became the dominant player, much to middle-America's great concern. Same thing is happening now -- new kids have come along and they're going to dominate soon.

Crazy_Fool
Jun 28th, 2004, 10:25 PM
Venus will be fine, so long as she keeps believing in herself and doesn't get injured. Every player goes through a bad patch in their career, its natural, you just have to come back stronger. You keep playing and eventually you will find your way back.

I agree that maybe she needs to play a bit more, but she is a bit injury prone.

DeDe4925
Jun 28th, 2004, 10:44 PM
Some of the Williams fans I did expect you to put this thread down. But im not intrested in what you have to say.
I want to know what tennis fans think do they think she will ever get back to the top agin. People who follow the sport becuses they enjoy it not just becuses a williams plays it
:lol: What an idiot. So you lump all Williams' fans into a group that are not "tennis fans" per se, and that does not follow the sport because they enjoy it. You've just discredited your whole thread. :lol:

Good luck :wavey:

Famu_lady
Jun 28th, 2004, 10:51 PM
Some of you guys are really pathetic! Yes Venus lost, but it's not like she lost to somebody unknown. Sprem played the match of her life and Venus still could have won the match. Of course Venus will be back and she is going to be a force to be reckon with. I'm not saying that is going to be tomorrow, but she will be back. People still have to understand that she just lost a family member. There is a mental block and she is not going to forget her overnight. People just be prepared because Venus is not done making her mark in the TENNIS world.

DeDe4925
Jun 28th, 2004, 11:01 PM
I don't question Venus' commitment to the game anymore. I don't know if other people see her diverse interests as a lack of commitment, but I certianly don't. Venus has no contractual obligations to her biggest sponsor anymore so I don't believe she is being forced to go out there and play. Also having suffered such a severe injury last year and coming back this year to play with injury after injury suggests to me that she wants to play tennis. How well she plays or has been playing is another story, but I'm convinced she's committed.

Here are my observations about the 2nd Round match and more importantly her performance this year.

I believe her opponent played a good match, she did what was necessary to win, but she did nothing special. She had a few good points and I mean beautifully hit shots, nice dropshots, etc, but she was not doing anyhting fantastic that a healthy and confident Venus wouldn't normally handle. Venus lost that match because she failed to be aggressive.

I wasso angry as I watched her constantly just lifting the ball over the net to get it in the court and not pushing the ball deep into the court. On another board someone suggested that perhaps Venus was playing a loopier ball so that her opponent wouldn't have any pace to work off of and that might very well be so but Venus had many opportunities to hit the ball deep and hard and she seemed afraid to do it; she just seemed docile. Whether she wasn't aware of it or was afraid to make a mistake is something only she can answer. In my mind her lack of aggression is what cost her that match. She served well, but when it came to returning the ball she just kept holding back and it wasn't like her opponent was forcing her back, but she was not pushing herself forward to hit that ball with any depth, and pace when it was necessary. This also suggests to me that Venus' belief is really low as well.

I only saw her match versus Sharapova about two weeks ago and if I had seen that match in January, I would have been convinced, like many, that Venus would win the AO. Long lay-off or not, Venus was looking really good. She started off slow in that match but once she had picked up on Sharapova'[s game she was in total control. Then she goes to OZ and gets injured; that's why she lost that match.

She said that she could already tell Lisa was coming out with an improved game from the warm-up, but because of Venus' injury she was clearly at a disadvantage to make the necessary adjustments, and while that was a very close score, I think that was the only other match this year that Venus had no control over the outcome. The other is her Dubai loss to Kuznetsova where she was clearly hampered by her injury and could not go toe-to-toe with her opponent.

All the other matches Venus has lost this year have been on her lack of focus and belief. She lost a match at Miami that she served for. Venus played one of the ugliest matches I've ever seen and still had the opportunity to win it. Her loss in Paris was also her own fault. She played another docile, unaggressive match, and blew break points in the final game to boot. She had set points in both sets at Wimbledon but failed to convert them on her own lack of belief thus resulting in ugly mistakes.

These say to me that Venus can win, but does she believe she can? I don't know.

Will Venus change? I tell oyu, Venus I think is one of the most stubborn people on earth and I love her but I don't believe she will. Changing means she'll have to let go of certain things that she doesn't think she can or ever will. Venus needs new coaching; she knows it. She doesn't need coaching on how to beat Serena; she needs coaching on how to improve her game. Don't you think she's heard it all before? Everytime she plays FEDCUP she hears it, but like my mother would say, it goes in one ear and comes out the next. The few weeks prior to, and after FedCup Venus is all ears and all excited to improve things in her game but as soon as FedCup wears off she forgets whatever she has been taught, and sadly enough, it doesn't seem as if her 'coaches' are trying to encourage her in the things Zina and BJK have taught her. Venus definitely needs a new coach, but I've heard Vee's excitement everytime she's in a team environment, or even after certain important wins, like before the 2000 and 2001 USO Finals. She's very patriotic; it's always the USA this or the USA that. If Venus is that patriotic to her country how do you think she feels towards her family? Getting a new coach means a certain break away from her family and Venus will never do it, IMO. ESpecially, especially since the recent loss of her sister, and can anyone of us blame her for that.

The only other thing she can do in a case like this is to impress upon herslef to do more of the things she has been taught by outsiders even while she stays under the wing of her parents' coaching and that might be tough on her; she needs her coaches to have her best interest and on the court I don't think they do.

I do not doubt Venus' ability to win but I do doubt her willingness to take that leap of faith. She cannot continue to play this kind of tennis and win, and believe me, she wants to win. She's not there for appearance fees or to PR her company, she wants to win, but so does everybody else. And if she intends to win, she has to make the necessary changes. I know in my heart that Venus is not satisfied with her results, whether they're as a result of injuries or being outplayed or whatever, Venus wants to win all the time, but she has to take her life into her own hands. She's 24 years old, for crying out loud, it's time to start looking out for Venus' interest. Serena's all grown up now and she doesn't need Venus to pave anything for her anymore, the Williams family is already rich so she doesn't have to earn an income to help support the family anymore.

It's time for Venus to start playing tennis like there's no pressure on her shoulders anymore, like she wants to be there, wants to compete and wants to win for Venus. It's time to do it for herself because she's already fulfilled her obligations to everyone else. Therefore she has to make a change.
:worship: :worship: :worship:
I felt so much emotion reading this, I almost started crying. I totally agree with you and I hope Vee does make it up in her mind that she should be playing and winning for herself, and become more independent. She's still a champion and she is one of the best tennis players on the tour. I do not and would not count her out. I just hope she gets the mind set back to win again.

nander
Jun 28th, 2004, 11:36 PM
Have we already forgotten that Venus was not beaten by 2 points in the tie-breaker..the normal way to win a set? She did look shaky and should not have lost more points but we have seen her do similar things before and come back to win.
I am not bitching ..I am simply saying..let's get real here.
I am not a crazy fan (don't really believe in all these fans and their egos) but I have been watching and following tennis for several decades.
For what it is worth, for me, Steffi Graf was never truly #1 again after the stabbing incident...I felt then that Monica was short changed and something should have been done to rectify the situation.
So, I am off chasing another windmill!

WF4EVER
Jun 29th, 2004, 12:08 AM
I know Venus recently lost her sister and sure, she must still mourn her loss but somehow I don't think this is Venus' problem as far as her game is concerned. In fact it probably helped her realize that life is too short not to enjoy it the way she wants to.

Since it had to happen, I think Yetunde's death occurred at a time when Venus was perhaps least affected. She was already on sick leave because of the abdominal strain when her sister was killed, right? Therefore I think she has a lot less on her mind than she would have if she had been in a tournament or planning one in the near future. At that time she had probably already settled in her mind that her ranking would drop, there'd be no more tennis for a while and there was not a thing she could do about it. When Yetunde died both she and Serena had a lot more time with their family and were able to mourn quietly without having to face tennis interviews after a match, not having to feel pressure from playing, etc.

I know that it cut deeply for her, but I really don't believe it's affecting her game. I do however believe that perhaps the loss of her sister might have helped her realize that she should do what makes her happy and not what anyone else wants.

Maybe if Vee could be healthy she might be able to enjoy tennis and life in general, for a change.

"Topaz"
Jun 29th, 2004, 01:52 AM
Many interesting and valuable opinions have been expressed in this thread. There is one thing I may want to add or highlight as regards Venus's mental game. While many players, including Serena, rely on well established techniques to execute their shots, Venus seems to have her whole game wrapped up in her mind. Her energy level, her ability to instantly work out the geometry of the court and deliver the right shots with strength and accuracy, the will to be aggressive at the right time, the fiery desire to win... all that depends on her mental state. In other words, everything has to click for her to unleash a champion performance.

- If she's affected in any slight way at all, her performance suffers somewhat.
- If she's entertaining sisterly feeling (that is, while playing against Serena), her performance goes down.
- If her body is not responding as needed on command, her performance suffers.

Right now, I think she's experiencing all sorts of psychological and physical impediments. Until these are resolved, we won't see that champion performance.

Meanwhile, the rest of the tour is improving and the new comers know no quarters and give none.

Janet
Jun 29th, 2004, 02:07 AM
Venus will do just fine for the rest of 2004 all dominate althelet goes through this faize of their career she just time to get her self back together I will always support venus I think she is a very hard workin person at what ever she does, and her match against Sperm was not bad, yes she made mistakes but all good players make mistake and sperm just capitiaze on them as what she was suppose to do she is a new comer to tennis. So people stop beening so hard on venus she will learn from this lost...........and beside who knows maybe serena will try to keep the trophy in the house for a 4th straight year!! and that will make venus prod.........and she will try to follow, so I beleive she will just do fine for 2004!

Jericho
Jun 29th, 2004, 02:16 AM
Venus will be looking for some scalps this summer hardcourt season!

stacyh5
Jun 29th, 2004, 02:23 AM
Unlike many of you, I'm afraid that Venus will not do fine. And I'm not sure about her more gifted sister, either. I don't think they quite understand their situations. The only reason they are currently successful in their sidelines is because of their tennis reputations. People will not buy their fashions, nor hire them for interior design, nor will they find sucessful acting careers if they do not continue their success on the courts. In those other fields, as in tennis, they are competing against professionals, who've devoted their entire lives to it and who are probably much better at it. I think the sisters need to return to their strength and then build their empire on it.

tennischick
Jun 29th, 2004, 02:34 AM
my prediction for what it's worth...

Venus will finally have the courage to hire herself a proper coach (aka neither Oracene nor Richard) who will help her build a proper second serve as well as a reliable forehand which will help her to get her game back to where it belongs -- second place (after Serena of course). ;)

Rafe306
Jun 29th, 2004, 02:41 AM
honestly i think she needs to keep playing more matches. Her confidence will come back with time

WtaTour4Ever
Jun 29th, 2004, 03:15 AM
It seems to me that she could quit playing tennis today and still be quite well off, therefore if she were not committed she would not play....as simple as that.

Robbie.
Jun 29th, 2004, 03:33 AM
Venus beat Kuznetsova this year and I dont think Dementieva is gonna be an elite anybody unless she gets a decent serve.:rolleyes: Myskina is also on a plane back to Russia. So before you proclaim and exalt these ladies on a pedestal due to one win, you need to consider the fact that (1. Neither of these ladies have been consistant and (2. The matches have to be played first.:rolleyes:I'm not saying that Venus can't beat them, or even that she's not going to beat them most of the time. I'm saying that she cant' afford to be turning up with a rusty, error strewn game or she will lose to them more often than she did in the past. HUGE difference. You Williams fans say that Hingis played in a weak era but let's face it when Serena and Venus were very dominant the game was WEAK. Hingis and Davenport were injured, just returning from injury or in decline. Jen was their main challenger and Serena and Venus (and then Mauresmo, Clijsters, Henin) were in her head anyway. They could afford to play badly and still win. I don't think they can do that anymore because a lot of player's have the BELIEF that they can beat them. I still think they are the best when they play at their best though.

As for Venus and Sprem - well Sprem should have won 6-3 6-3 if she hadn't have had a mini choke. She outplayed Venus, deal with it.

bigshow21
Jun 29th, 2004, 03:37 AM
I think Venus will be fine and winning agian! She is a great tennis player and knows how to succeed! Im not even a Venus fan but i think she will be ok.

ys
Jun 29th, 2004, 03:39 AM
The more she struggles the more I like her. I like struggling players. Seeing them break through after long, tough and seemingly hopeless struggle is the biggest reward a tennis fan can ever get.

DemWilliamsGulls
Jun 29th, 2004, 04:23 AM
Part-time tennis player, hence, part-time result!! ;)

Exactly...when she is 100% she and Serena was bascially on top of everybody...mark my word ...Venus will have at least 3 more tennis...she has too much pride in tennis...its been that way since she was a little girl.