PDA

View Full Version : about Karolina


Fingon
Jun 25th, 2004, 08:33 PM
I don't even know how Karolina plays, I could only see a couple of shot against Venus, but I am really starting to feel sorry for her.

She is very young and unexperience, she gets the biggest win of her life and everything is ruined because of ONE point.

Really, to save my life I can't see the difference between wrong scoring and a bad line call, in both cases a player gets a point that she didn't win, duh!

that happens all the fucking times, in all matches. It is normal and all professional players need to live with it. Shit happens, they face wrong decisions all the time.

And all Karolina did was to keep playing. She didn't ask for the umpire to count the points wrong. Venus did not say anything yet people assume that Venus kept her match shut because she was afraid of the crowd (in Wimbledon centre court on a weekday whatever) while Karolina was the devil. Venus herself said that she wasn't sure about the score, but even her fans prefer not to believe her, no Venus was just didn't want to create trouble. That's the kind of behaviour that pisses me off, they deny everything to prove a point, even the victim's own words.

I really hope this stops, for Karolina's sake. Now anything she does or doesn't do will be scrutinize, the poor girl will be accused of everything, and 10 years from now whe will still be hearing the same bullshit. I know because Justine went through the same, because she made one mistake then any accusation agaisnt her was taken like "I told you she is a bitch" and at the end that affected her (eg US Open not calling the trainer when she has cramps).

I hope Karolina has enough character to tell the press to fuck off, and I hope nobody takes a cheap shot at her, as some did with Justine. She is young and unexperienced and this could ruin her career. This is one the inepts of the WTA should come forward and protect their players of media bullshit, but they don't seem to care for anyone not named Kournikova.

Mark my words. If Karolina starts winning big now, she will be haunted for this for years to come, and any minimun incident will be taken against her. Who said that in the american justice system everyone is innocent until proven guilty?, not if you dared to offend one of the Williams.

PD: this is not a shot at Venus who has been the only person really classy in this whole issue, it's the media and SOME fans that get on my nerves, and Andy Prick

WhatTheDeuce
Jun 25th, 2004, 08:36 PM
I agree 1000000%

WhatTheDeuce
Jun 25th, 2004, 08:37 PM
Really, to save my life I can't see the difference between wrong scoring and a bad line call, in both cases a player gets a point that she didn't win, duh!

Another good point.

Hingiswinsthis
Jun 25th, 2004, 08:48 PM
nice post Fingon. I bet Karolina will have some match nerves for tomorrow. It's ashame her incredible play had to be tarnished with the on going onslaught of people who can't move on.

I really love her game. She reminds me of Monica Seles/Mary Pierce combined. She just needs to clean up her mess in her matches though. This girl has potential. We'll see tomorrow.

Kabezya
Jun 25th, 2004, 08:56 PM
And all Karolina did was to keep playing. She didn't ask for the umpire to count the points wrong. Venus did not say anything yet people assume that Venus kept her match shut because she was afraid of the crowd (in Wimbledon centre court on a weekday whatever) while Karolina was the devil. Venus herself said that she wasn't sure about the score, but even her fans prefer not to believe her, no Venus was just didn't want to create trouble. That's the kind of behaviour that pisses me off, they deny everything to prove a point, even the victim's own words.

This is why I hate selective reading. Seriously, all day yesterday there were a variety of posts by fans of Venus. Since this is a pot shot at Venus fans, I want the record set straight. Considering I personally involved myself within many a thread where there were many a Venus fan who did not blame Karolina or make her out to be the devil but put the blame in the proper place, with the ump and to a degree even wondered why Venus herself didn't say anything. I'm tired of the attempt at a blanket statement and viewpoint that ALL Venus Williams fans blamed everyone and their damn mama for Venus losing. It simply isn't true and worse yet in it's horrible it's being done to make Karolina look good. It shouldn't be necessary because neither woman looked bad and the fault was with the ump. Please read all the threads, you'll find Venus fans who commented on this. Why not mention that truth? This act bothers and angers me when there were many posts by fans here who used Venus' own interview as a lead for their views on the match.

I really hope this stops, for Karolina's sake. Now anything she does or doesn't do will be scrutinize, the poor girl will be accused of everything, and 10 years from now whe will still be hearing the same bullshit. I know because Justine went through the same, because she made one mistake then any accusation agaisnt her was taken like "I told you she is a bitch" and at the end that affected her (eg US Open not calling the trainer when she has cramps).

Uh huh... Well this will be true if you are a person who wants to focus on the negative. Funny and ironic in that you miss how you've shown yourself to be the same league as those who still comment on Justine or those who "blame" Karolina. You don't seem to be able to let this go and neither do they.


PD: this is not a shot at Venus who has been the only person really classy in this whole issue, it's the media and SOME fans that get on my nerves, and Andy Prick :rolleyes:

So instead you take a pot shot at SOME fans? It is nice to see that you amended your statement from all fans to just some. Venus has been classy as that majority of her fans have been in this matter. Just like some fans got on your nerves with their actions and words, you do the same with similar style and type posts.

Steff_forever
Jun 25th, 2004, 08:58 PM
Fingon you said it. This girl should be given a chance. The arrogant superiority behind questioning(?=GER 'in Frage stellen'?) her win (just see yesterday's yahoo-frontpage) and upcoming wins makes me feel disgusted about the way some US-media wants to manipulate in favor for it's own players who I think do not want to do. :fiery:


Hope Andy Roddick shuts up here or I ... (as Michael Stich does when talking on depth in women's tennis all the time)

Tennisfan-Mtl
Jun 25th, 2004, 08:59 PM
:worship: :worship: :worship:

I don't even know how Karolina plays, I could only see a couple of shot against Venus, but I am really starting to feel sorry for her.

She is very young and unexperience, she gets the biggest win of her life and everything is ruined because of ONE point.

Really, to save my life I can't see the difference between wrong scoring and a bad line call, in both cases a player gets a point that she didn't win, duh!

that happens all the fucking times, in all matches. It is normal and all professional players need to live with it. Shit happens, they face wrong decisions all the time.

And all Karolina did was to keep playing. She didn't ask for the umpire to count the points wrong. Venus did not say anything yet people assume that Venus kept her match shut because she was afraid of the crowd (in Wimbledon centre court on a weekday whatever) while Karolina was the devil. Venus herself said that she wasn't sure about the score, but even her fans prefer not to believe her, no Venus was just didn't want to create trouble. That's the kind of behaviour that pisses me off, they deny everything to prove a point, even the victim's own words.

I really hope this stops, for Karolina's sake. Now anything she does or doesn't do will be scrutinize, the poor girl will be accused of everything, and 10 years from now whe will still be hearing the same bullshit. I know because Justine went through the same, because she made one mistake then any accusation agaisnt her was taken like "I told you she is a bitch" and at the end that affected her (eg US Open not calling the trainer when she has cramps).

I hope Karolina has enough character to tell the press to fuck off, and I hope nobody takes a cheap shot at her, as some did with Justine. She is young and unexperienced and this could ruin her career. This is one the inepts of the WTA should come forward and protect their players of media bullshit, but they don't seem to care for anyone not named Kournikova.

Mark my words. If Karolina starts winning big now, she will be haunted for this for years to come, and any minimun incident will be taken against her. Who said that in the american justice system everyone is innocent until proven guilty?, not if you dared to offend one of the Williams.

PD: this is not a shot at Venus who has been the only person really classy in this whole issue, it's the media and SOME fans that get on my nerves, and Andy Prick

Fingon
Jun 25th, 2004, 09:03 PM
and viewpoint that ALL Venus Williams fans blamed everyone and their damn mama for Venus losing. </quote>

and you complain about selective reading? :rolleyes: I said SOME

[quote]
Uh huh... Well this will be true if you are a person who wants to focus on the negative. Funny and ironic in that you miss how you've shown yourself to be the same league as those who still comment on Justine or those who "blame" Karolina. You don't seem to be able to let this go and neither do they.

huh?


So instead you take a pot shot at SOME fans? It is nice to see that you amended your statement from all fans to just some. Venus has been classy as that majority of her fans have been in this matter. Just like some fans got on your nerves with their actions and words, you do the same with similar style and type posts.
you really are something aren't you? why do I bother? you have no clue what you are talking about and you really need to understand what you read

:wavey:

Jericho
Jun 25th, 2004, 09:04 PM
Really, to save my life I can't see the difference between wrong scoring and a bad line call, in both cases a player gets a point that she didn't win, duh!
there is a difference between actually hitting a ball that is in and it being called out b/c in all actually you deserved it...not having to do crap to earn a point because of the umpire is completely different. There is also a psychological difference too.


And all Karolina did was to keep playing. She didn't ask for the umpire to count the points wrong. Venus did not say anything yet people assume that Venus kept her match shut because she was afraid of the crowd (in Wimbledon centre court on a weekday whatever) while Karolina was the devil. Venus herself said that she wasn't sure about the score, but even her fans prefer not to believe her, no Venus was just didn't want to create trouble. That's the kind of behaviour that pisses me off, they deny everything to prove a point, even the victim's own words.

there are only a handful of venus fans that say that, so thats really fair :rolleyes:

Rtael
Jun 25th, 2004, 09:08 PM
there are only a handful of venus fans that say that, so thats really fair :rolleyes:
A handful? Try about half.

Strange Famous
Jun 25th, 2004, 09:09 PM
I completely agree, Sprem did nothing wrong, and Roddicks opinion is worthless.

Mrs. Peel
Jun 25th, 2004, 09:10 PM
A handful? Try about half.
Prove it.

Truthwillout
Jun 25th, 2004, 09:14 PM
This is why I hate selective reading. Seriously, all day yesterday there were a variety of posts by fans of Venus. Since this is a pot shot at Venus fans, I want the record set straight. Considering I personally involved myself within many a thread where there were many a Venus fan who did not blame Karolina or make her out to be the devil but put the blame in the proper place, with the ump and to a degree even wondered why Venus herself didn't say anything. I'm tired of the attempt at a blanket statement and viewpoint that ALL Venus Williams fans blamed everyone and their damn mama for Venus losing. It simply isn't true and worse yet in it's horrible it's being done to make Karolina look good. It shouldn't be necessary because neither woman looked bad and the fault was with the ump. Please read all the threads, you'll find Venus fans who commented on this. Why not mention that truth? This act bothers and angers me when there were many posts by fans here who used Venus' own interview as a lead for their views on the match.



Uh huh... Well this will be true if you are a person who wants to focus on the negative. Funny and ironic in that you miss how you've shown yourself to be the same league as those who still comment on Justine or those who "blame" Karolina. You don't seem to be able to let this go and neither do they.


:rolleyes:

So instead you take a pot shot at SOME fans? It is nice to see that you amended your statement from all fans to just some. Venus has been classy as that majority of her fans have been in this matter. Just like some fans got on your nerves with their actions and words, you do the same with similar style and type posts.

I think Fingon had a point. Come on, this board has been flooded with threads on K-lina's win and many of them very vicious at that. The trouble is some fans are so loud and obnoxious that they wind up giving a bad name to the other cool, clean fans.

Ballbuster
Jun 25th, 2004, 09:27 PM
not if you dared to offend one of the Williams.



That's right!

Their sponsors have threatened to withdraw their support where they have been cheated and have not been relegated to Elite Status.


One of the perks of being a Williams. Don't you wish your fave was too. Oh that's right. You don't have a fave.

DeDe4925
Jun 25th, 2004, 09:32 PM
This is why I hate selective reading. Seriously, all day yesterday there were a variety of posts by fans of Venus. Since this is a pot shot at Venus fans, I want the record set straight. Considering I personally involved myself within many a thread where there were many a Venus fan who did not blame Karolina or make her out to be the devil but put the blame in the proper place, with the ump and to a degree even wondered why Venus herself didn't say anything. I'm tired of the attempt at a blanket statement and viewpoint that ALL Venus Williams fans blamed everyone and their damn mama for Venus losing. It simply isn't true and worse yet in it's horrible it's being done to make Karolina look good. It shouldn't be necessary because neither woman looked bad and the fault was with the ump. Please read all the threads, you'll find Venus fans who commented on this. Why not mention that truth? This act bothers and angers me when there were many posts by fans here who used Venus' own interview as a lead for their views on the match.



Uh huh... Well this will be true if you are a person who wants to focus on the negative. Funny and ironic in that you miss how you've shown yourself to be the same league as those who still comment on Justine or those who "blame" Karolina. You don't seem to be able to let this go and neither do they.


:rolleyes:

So instead you take a pot shot at SOME fans? It is nice to see that you amended your statement from all fans to just some. Venus has been classy as that majority of her fans have been in this matter. Just like some fans got on your nerves with their actions and words, you do the same with similar style and type posts.
:worship: :worship: :worship: Always the VOICE OF REASON. :worship: :worship: :worship:

DeDe4925
Jun 25th, 2004, 09:33 PM
Prove it.
Hi Mrs. Peel :wavey:

nander
Jun 25th, 2004, 09:42 PM
I have complained about her and will continue to do so. Not because it was in a match against Venus but because it was an unsporting and dishonest thing to do.
There used to be an old saying ' It is not whether you won or lost but how you play the game'. I realise that that has now been overtaken by 'winning is the only thing' and 'winning at any cost'. I still like to think that there are some out there with values. Because somebody didn't see you steal and call you on it doesn't mean that you had the right to take what did not belong to you.
I refuse to get involved in this 'fans' argument because to me it is pointless.
Yes, she will carry the stigma and so she should.

AjdeNate!
Jun 25th, 2004, 10:10 PM
I have complained about her and will continue to do so. Not because it was in a match against Venus but because it was an unsporting and dishonest thing to do.
There used to be an old saying ' It is not whether you won or lost but how you play the game'. I realise that that has now been overtaken by 'winning is the only thing' and 'winning at any cost'. I still like to think that there are some out there with values. Because somebody didn't see you steal and call you on it doesn't mean that you had the right to take what did not belong to you.
I refuse to get involved in this 'fans' argument because to me it is pointless.
Yes, she will carry the stigma and so she should.
Why? She did her job. She served the 2nd serve, she tried to serve her next point but the balls were going to the other end. She looked at the Umpire for confirmation, he gave it. What else is she to do at 76 66 22 in the tiebreak?

brickhousesupporter
Jun 25th, 2004, 10:19 PM
Fingon those sentiments are fine and for the most part I agree with you about Karolina. However, to compare the situation of Karolina to Justine is ridiculous. There is absolutely no way of knowing if Karolina willfully and malicious tried to get over. Justine was an active participant in the deceitful act. As the tournament referee, Alan Mills said it is the duty of the players to voice their grieviences to the chair, Serena did that and Justine pretented to not know what Serena was talking about. Huge difference.

Kabezya
Jun 25th, 2004, 11:12 PM
huh?


you really are something aren't you? why do I bother? you have no clue what you are talking about and you really need to understand what you read

:wavey:

Why thank you. I'm sure you think highly of yourself enough for the both of us. I understood what I read, now if you are in a state of confusion about your own words that would be your own porblem and thus I could understand why you wonder to bother posting period.



And all Karolina did was to keep playing. She didn't ask for the umpire to count the points wrong. Venus did not say anything yet people assume that Venus kept her match shut because she was afraid of the crowd (in Wimbledon centre court on a weekday whatever) while Karolina was the devil.

As long as you continue to generalize and selectively choose what you need for your arguments, I'll continue to have a problem with it. It's so easy and convenient to mask the whole of threads and posts to slant your wishful viewpoint as you attempted in this thread. I wonder why you did not champion the Venus fans who didn't blame Karolina and who specifically came out and only put blame on the ump.

Kabezya
Jun 25th, 2004, 11:17 PM
I think Fingon had a point. Come on, this board has been flooded with threads on K-lina's win and many of them very vicious at that. The trouble is some fans are so loud and obnoxious that they wind up giving a bad name to the other cool, clean fans.

He/She did have a point, but it stopped being about the point when he/she brought in pot shots at Venus fans of which he/she amended only at the end of the post to some instead of all. What never ceases to amaze is the unwillingness to clearly look at both sides of the equation if not really look at the gist of the majority of the posters and posts within the threads. I think there is a willingness to latch onto the most controversial and loudest posts and make them the majority when in fact they could be a minority view point from just a few angry posters. The fact that some fans are loud and or obnoxious and thus posters like the above make the few into the majority helps only to invalidate whatever point there was to begin with because oftentimes the posters become the subject rather than the point of not blaming Karolina.

Bright Red
Jun 25th, 2004, 11:21 PM
I don't usually agree with you, Fingon, but in this post I agree 100%.

Even as a fan of Venus, I must admit that Sprem really did outplay Venus during the match. It's sad for her that the "free point" will overshadow it and there'll always be a question in most people's mind. How much sweeter would her victory had been were it not for this controversy?

One thing's for sure and because of this, Sprem will probably pay more attention to the scores going forward so that this won't happen to her again.

Just_lindsay
Jun 25th, 2004, 11:21 PM
I don't even know how Karolina plays, I could only see a couple of shot against Venus, but I am really starting to feel sorry for her.

She is very young and unexperience, she gets the biggest win of her life and everything is ruined because of ONE point.

Really, to save my life I can't see the difference between wrong scoring and a bad line call, in both cases a player gets a point that she didn't win, duh!

that happens all the fucking times, in all matches. It is normal and all professional players need to live with it. Shit happens, they face wrong decisions all the time.

And all Karolina did was to keep playing. She didn't ask for the umpire to count the points wrong. Venus did not say anything yet people assume that Venus kept her match shut because she was afraid of the crowd (in Wimbledon centre court on a weekday whatever) while Karolina was the devil. Venus herself said that she wasn't sure about the score, but even her fans prefer not to believe her, no Venus was just didn't want to create trouble. That's the kind of behaviour that pisses me off, they deny everything to prove a point, even the victim's own words.

I really hope this stops, for Karolina's sake. Now anything she does or doesn't do will be scrutinize, the poor girl will be accused of everything, and 10 years from now whe will still be hearing the same bullshit. I know because Justine went through the same, because she made one mistake then any accusation agaisnt her was taken like "I told you she is a bitch" and at the end that affected her (eg US Open not calling the trainer when she has cramps).

I hope Karolina has enough character to tell the press to fuck off, and I hope nobody takes a cheap shot at her, as some did with Justine. She is young and unexperienced and this could ruin her career. This is one the inepts of the WTA should come forward and protect their players of media bullshit, but they don't seem to care for anyone not named Kournikova.

Mark my words. If Karolina starts winning big now, she will be haunted for this for years to come, and any minimun incident will be taken against her. Who said that in the american justice system everyone is innocent until proven guilty?, not if you dared to offend one of the Williams.

PD: this is not a shot at Venus who has been the only person really classy in this whole issue, it's the media and SOME fans that get on my nerves, and Andy Prick


Ummm... Karolina is clearly not a victim in this situation. She's into the 3rd round at friggin Wimbledon... she (AND HER FANS) have nothing to be complaining about :rolleyes:

cheesestix
Jun 25th, 2004, 11:30 PM
Nice sig there, ballbuster... "Nowdays, you have to Cheat a Williams to Win."

Really classy!

So, tell me, how did Myskina and Capriati cheat in the French Open to beat Venus and Serena?????

When else was a Williams sister "cheated" other than your supposed "cheating" by JHH????

And are you saying that Sprem cheated against Venus???

I suppose Serena cheated in all of her slam final wins over Venus????

Your sig is totally wrong! You DON'T have to cheat against a Williams sister to win. Neither one of them is as good as they used to be. Get used to that fact. And I don't know what match YOU were watching, but Sprem outplayed Venus yesterday. One point doesn't change the fact that Sprem was the better player.

cheesestix
Jun 25th, 2004, 11:33 PM
I don't usually agree with you, Fingon, but in this post I agree 100%.

Even as a fan of Venus, I must admit that Sprem really did outplay Venus during the match. It's sad for her that the "free point" will overshadow it and there'll always be a question in most people's mind. How much sweeter would her victory had been were it not for this controversy?

One thing's for sure and because of this, Sprem will probably pay more attention to the scores going forward so that this won't happen to her again.

I agree with most of your post, but why is it Sprem's responsibility???? If the umpire and all of the other judges AND EVEN VENUS didn't know any better, why is it Sprem's responsibility to correct them (assuming she even knows)? But she served the 2nd serve even though the umpire had said 2-2, so what does that tell you?

From now on, I think all players will keep better track of the score, as well they should.

If the situation had been reversed, Venus fans would be saying "Venus clearly outplayed Sprem anyway, and it wouldn't have mattered because Venus is clearly the better player than Sprem" and they would also be saying "if Sprem is too stupid to not keep track of her own score and to contest it, then it's her own fault."

Bright Red
Jun 25th, 2004, 11:42 PM
I agree with most of your post, but why is it Sprem's responsibility???? If the umpire and all of the other judges AND EVEN VENUS didn't know any better, why is it Sprem's responsibility to correct them? Besides, she served the 2nd serve even though the judge had said 2-2, so what does that tell you?

It's totally not Sprem's responsibility; however, it will affect her as we've already seen in some of the player's comments about her. I'm not saying that people will accuse her of cheating. Rather, I think that people will sort of qualify her victory regardless of the fact that she played well enough to have won outright. I think she'll want to avoid future blemishes to her results.

mariok
Jun 25th, 2004, 11:44 PM
Karolina won because she was a better player. People obviously just need something to talk about, and it's understandable, since mistakes like that one don't happen every day. Plus, we're talking about Wimbledon AND it's Central court. What a shame!

I don't think it will hurt Karolina's progress and I'm really happy that even Williams' fans accept that it was just a stupid mistake done by the umpire. It might have been different if any of the players said something, but since noone reacted badly during or even after the match, it's obvious players were confused themselves. And it seems they have no intention of paying too much attention to it, so I think the media will find all this boring soon enough.

Karolina is very young and very, very unexperienced, otherwise that 2nd tie-break would not have even taken place. Unfortunately, it did...

Good luck against Shaughnessy, Karolina! Keep it up!

flyingmachine
Jun 26th, 2004, 12:05 AM
Karolina won because she was a better player. People obviously just need something to talk about, and it's understandable, since mistakes like that one don't happen every day. Plus, we're talking about Wimbledon AND it's Central court. What a shame!

I don't think it will hurt Karolina's progress and I'm really happy that even Williams' fans accept that it was just a stupid mistake done by the umpire. It might have been different if any of the players said something, but since noone reacted badly during or even after the match, it's obvious players were confused themselves. And it seems they have no intention of paying too much attention to it, so I think the media will find all this boring soon enough.

Karolina is very young and very, very unexperienced, otherwise that 2nd tie-break would not have even taken place. Unfortunately, it did...

Good luck against Shaughnessy, Karolina! Keep it up!
I hope the media stops throwing tomatoes at K-lina. I do agree on what Fingon had said about this inccdent. Wow at last I agree something with Fingon. :eek: This is obviously the mistake of the empire. It's a good thing that the BBC didn't say too much about it. (Unlike the US media just because an American lost.) Speaking of the A Rod he's not the cleverest guy at least on tour so not susprising on what he is saying about this inccdent. Anyway good luck to K-Lina I think she's need it because of what happened.

Just_lindsay
Jun 26th, 2004, 12:22 AM
I hope the media stops throwing tomatoes at K-lina. I do agree on what Fingon had said about this inccdent. Wow at last I agree something with Fingon. :eek: This is obviously the mistake of the empire. It's a good thing that the BBC didn't say too much about it. (Unlike the US media just because an American lost.) Speaking of the A Rod he's not the cleverest guy at least on tour so not susprising on what he is saying about this inccdent. Anyway good luck to K-Lina I think she's need it because of what happened.

I think it was distasteful the way the Wimbledon website and the British media tried to brush the incident "under the rug".

GO MEGHANN! YOU'RE GOING TO :smash: KAROLINA SPERM!

Fingon
Jun 26th, 2004, 01:52 AM
there is a difference between actually hitting a ball that is in and it being called out b/c in all actually you deserved it...not having to do crap to earn a point because of the umpire is completely different. There is also a psychological difference too.

sorry but I can't see what the difference is, in both cases you lose a point you should have won.



there are only a handful of venus fans that say that, so thats really fair :rolleyes:
I don't know how many they are, and many have been very classy and reasonable, I can't name them all but Volcana comes to mind for example, and many others.

In fact, that applies to most of the criticism towards Williams fans, most of them are very reasonable, but there are a few that make a lot of noise and make the whole group look bad.

But I don't think you have to put "some" in capitals and bold every time you say "Williams fans", it's obvious that it is a generalization.

When you say for example, French people are tasteful, you don't mean that ALL French are, it's just a generalization, and people shouldn't really have to apologize every time they mention Williams fans or Venus or Serena.

Fingon
Jun 26th, 2004, 02:03 AM
Ummm... Karolina is clearly not a victim in this situation. She's into the 3rd round at friggin Wimbledon... she (AND HER FANS) have nothing to be complaining about :rolleyes:
I am not her fan, although after all the backlash she is getting for doing nothing I might well become one.

hingis-seles
Jun 26th, 2004, 02:05 AM
Great post, Fingon!

I fail to understand how Karolina "cheated". Why should Karolina be expected to correct the umpire? Is Venus deaf, dumb and blind that she couldn't correct the umpire?

Venus is the only one who has handled this in a classy manner. But then again, Venus has always been pure class. :worship:

Fingon
Jun 26th, 2004, 02:13 AM
Why thank you. I'm sure you think highly of yourself enough for the both of us. I understood what I read, now if you are in a state of confusion about your own words that would be your own porblem and thus I could understand why you wonder to bother posting period.

I do think high of myself, who else would?

I am not in a state of confusion, people talk using generalizations all the time and if you can't understand that, well, what can I do?

you could understand why I wonder to bother posting?

now, what the hell does that mean?, I really can't understand that.


As long as you continue to generalize and selectively choose what you need for your arguments, I'll continue to have a problem with it. It's so easy and convenient to mask the whole of threads and posts to slant your wishful viewpoint as you attempted in this thread. I wonder why you did not champion the Venus fans who didn't blame Karolina and who specifically came out and only put blame on the ump.
hmmm, what is a wishful viewpoint is? :confused:

as I said, I am not going to be explaining myself word by word for everything I say. People with reading comprehension understand that when I say Williams fans it doesn't mean every single one of them, it's a generalization, perfectly normal, it's like to say people, or americans. It's pefectly normal.

So, if somebody forgets to put the word "some" in one sentence, even if it's perfectly clear it's wrong? whatever.

The post was directly to those who unfairly criticized Karolina, those who didn't shouldn't feel affected at all, that's pretty obvious IMO.

You saw SOME Williams fans like Bright red actually understood it very well.

Kabezya
Jun 26th, 2004, 02:26 AM
as I said, I am not going to be explaining myself word by word for everything I say. People with reading comprehension understand that when I say Williams fans it doesn't mean every single one of them, it's a generalization, perfectly normal, it's like to say people, or americans. It's pefectly normal.

So, if somebody forgets to put the word "some" in one sentence, even if it's perfectly clear it's wrong? whatever.

The post was directly to those who unfairly criticized Karolina, those who didn't shouldn't feel affected at all, that's pretty obvious IMO.

You saw SOME Williams fans like Bright red actually understood it very well.

Good for Bright Red. Is this person to get a cookie for their efforts?

As it were, if your words as printed are not to be taken literally then so be it. It's a sad thing, but whatever. When you say Williams fans, it can be taken to literally and figuratively mean all Williams fans - having "some" isn't something that can be mistaken in quantity. That's just how it is.

It's sad because some could take this thread and find criticism, if not displeasure with Sprem where before there would be no room for any. Ironic.

mboyle
Jun 26th, 2004, 02:29 AM
The question really is: who is more obnoxious, Bandabou or Ballbuster? Combined their IQs still fail to exceed 100. It shows in their grammar, their illogical yet forceful opinions, and their blind rush to lambaste anything pro-anyone other than a Williams sister.

Fingon
Jun 26th, 2004, 02:40 AM
Good for Bright Red. Is this person to get a cookie for their efforts?

As it were, if your words as printed are not to be taken literally then so be it. It's a sad thing, but whatever. When you say Williams fans, it can be taken to literally and figuratively mean all Williams fans - having "some" isn't something that can be mistaken in quantity. That's just how it is.

It's sad because some could take this thread and find criticism, if not displeasure with Sprem where before there would be no room for any. Ironic.
you really amaze me some times.

First, I made my point about terminology, and that was my final word, I am not going to get into a linguistic argument, game over, there isn't anything to add.

Second, how what I said can what I said generate displeasure towards Karolina? :confused: .

third, I couldn't care less what people feel about her, I just want the fricking media and some fans to give it a rest and leave the poor girl alone. That is all.

Fingon
Jun 26th, 2004, 02:43 AM
The question really is: who is more obnoxious, Bandabou or Ballbuster? Combined their IQs still fail to exceed 100. It shows in their grammar, their illogical yet forceful opinions, and their blind rush to lambaste anything pro-anyone other than a Williams sister.
oh Bandabou is OK most of the time,

Ballbuster? he can be quite funny if you can see the funny side of it. you just have to give him a bone with some meat and he will be ok and will move his tail.

Kabezya
Jun 26th, 2004, 02:47 AM
you really amaze me some times.

Thank you. Although this is the first time I can remember ever posting opposite of you.

First, I made my point about terminology, and that was my final word, I am not going to get into a linguistic argument, game over, there isn't anything to add.

We simply have two separate modes of thinking on terminology.

Second, how what I said can what I said generate displeasure towards Karolina? :confused: .

There you go and that constant state of confusion. Well it was a play on your own words about how all the criticism of Karolina could make you a fan. Do you get it now?

third, I couldn't care less what people feel about her, I just want the fricking media and some fans to give it a rest and leave the poor girl alone. That is all.

I'm sure your post on the subject helps to stop the media attention and fan attention on the circumstances of the match. Yet another thread devoted to the Karolina/Venus match can only stop some fans from talking about it... right?

Ballbuster
Jun 26th, 2004, 02:47 AM
I just want the fricking media and some fans to give it a rest and leave the poor girl alone. That is all.[/size]


They are spitting fire at Sprem here in the States. Come to the big dance, play by the rules.

Pretty soon most casual American Tennis fan will think The Williams gets cheated repeatedly. Now they get empathy and sympathy points.

Don't you love it!

Jericho
Jun 26th, 2004, 02:49 AM
I fail to understand how Karolina "cheated". Why should Karolina be expected to correct the umpire? Is Venus deaf, dumb and blind that she couldn't correct the umpire?
Is Karolina "deaf, dumb, and blind that she couldn't correct the umpire"? Or maybe she knew and did want to say anything? Can't be both ways... :rolleyes:

Ballbuster
Jun 26th, 2004, 02:53 AM
Ballbuster is a racist white poster troublemaker .

Since when did I become white? Don't make me post my pic on here again....and I'm not a racist. Slightly prejudiced, but never racist. Didn't I tell you all that I live in a 60% white community.

Besides, i know Venus got her ass kicked. Don't like it, but since there is controversy why not play it up.

Hell the media's doing it.....and everybody is talking about it. Most folks think Venus was flat out cheated out of a WIN!!!!!!

Fingon
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:00 AM
Thank you. Although this is the first time I can remember ever posting opposite of you.



We simply have two separate modes of thinking on terminology.

I won't even bother, I hate repeating myself


There you go and that constant state of confusion. Well it was a play on your own words about how all the criticism of Karolina could make you a fan. Do you get it now?

wow, you really give me too much credit, so something I write would change the minds of many people towards someone I referred too in a post, I am really honoured.

the way I react to the unjustified attack on a girl who has done nothing wrong doesn't create a pattern of behaviour, and one thing is to feel sympathy for someone attacked by the media and other is to hate someone because somebody else posted something to defend that person.


I'm sure your post on the subject helps to stop the media attention and fan attention on the circumstances of the match. Yet another thread devoted to the Karolina/Venus match can only stop some fans from talking about it... right?
wow again, I didn't know I had so much influence, really? the media attention won't stop because I posted something about it?

Kabezya
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:06 AM
I won't even bother, I hate repeating myself


wow, you really give me too much credit, so something I write would change the minds of many people towards someone I referred too in a post, I am really honoured.

So you really don't get it? :confused:

the way I react to the unjustified attack on a girl who has done nothing wrong doesn't create a pattern of behaviour, and one thing is to feel sympathy for someone attacked by the media and other is to hate someone because somebody else posted something to defend that person.


wow again, I didn't know I had so much influence, really? the media attention won't stop because I posted something about it?

You really don't get it :rolleyes: Well there's nothing more that needs to be said or can for that matter. :wavey:

Fingon
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:11 AM
So you really don't get it? :confused:



You really don't get it :rolleyes: Well there's nothing more that needs to be said or can for that matter. :wavey:
yes, I am an idiot, I can't understand, now :wavey:

Myggen
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:13 AM
It's really incredible how people and the media expects Karolina to correct the umpire when Venus didn't do so. Venus was the only person who should have done that, and when she just played on, just nevermind. It's not like American players are trying to influence the umpire at the US Open to favor the Europeans. I just remember Capriati vs Henin-Hardenne at the US Open how Capriati almost could dictate what the umpire and lines referees would call and really balanced at the edge of fair play. So just get over it. You'll have your home court advantage in September.

Jericho
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:16 AM
It's really incredible how people and the media expects Karolina to correct the umpire when Venus didn't do so. Venus was the only person who should have done that, and when she just played on, just nevermind.
So your saying that it would've been ok for Karolina to not say anything? BTW, i dont think she knew either

Myggen
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:24 AM
So your saying that it would've been ok for Karolina to not say anything? BTW, i dont think she knew either

Maybe she knew, maybe she didn't. It's not really my point. Americans usually know how to stand up for their rights, and when Venus just let it pass, I don't see any reason why somebody else should be her lawyer.

By the way, I have always admired Venus and I think she is the classiest tennis player you'll ever find. You can just tell she is such a good person, and she is probably the only person standing tall after this incident. But she needs to stand up for her rights next time. Only that. :)

Jericho
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:28 AM
Maybe she knew, maybe she didn't. It's not really my point. Americans usually know how to stand up for their rights, and when Venus just let it pass, I don't see any reason why somebody else should be her lawyer.

By the way, I have always admired Venus and I think she is the classiest tennis player you'll ever find. You can just tell she is such a good person, and she is probably the only person standing tall after this incident. But she needs to stand up for her rights next time. Only that. :)
I really dont think that Venus realized it. She said so herself that she lost track of the score and was confused.

Myggen
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:32 AM
To me it looked like they were both confused. They both knew something was wrong, but not exactly what! :)

Kart
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:34 AM
Mark my words. If Karolina starts winning big now, she will be haunted for this for years to come, and any minimun incident will be taken against her.

It will pass.

Jericho
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:35 AM
To me it looked like they were both confused. They both knew something was wrong, but not exactly what! :)
yeah so we can't really blame either player...it seems as though people are either blaming Venus for not saying anything or Karolina for cheating.

Fingon
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:37 AM
yeah so we can't really blame either player...it seems as though people are either blaming Venus for not saying anything or Karolina for cheating.
I really don't think you can blame either

Kabezya
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:41 AM
yes, I am an idiot, I can't understand, now :wavey:

For the record I never called you an idiot :dance:

htm
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:44 AM
I don't feel sorry for the little cheat, it's amazing how some people seems to forget Venus and Serena are just as human as Sprem, but they never get any pitty. I'm glad Sprem is only getting just a little of what Venus and Serena faces everyday. Just think if they came down hard on her as they do WS she probably would commit suicide.

Myggen
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:44 AM
yeah so we can't really blame either player...it seems as though people are either blaming Venus for not saying anything or Karolina for cheating.

Wise words indeed. Seems like you are one of the very few who are totally sober on this issue. It's always a virtue to look at something from different angles and perspectives. And I know for sure Venus will come back even stronger after this. I was so happy to see some of the Venus of old in the past weeks, and I know that if she can continue her stride forward she will have a good shot at another GS.

Jericho
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:45 AM
I really don't think you can blame either
you really can't. the sad thing is that the person who actually made the mistake isn't getting as much blame as they should be getting...:rolleyes: ...at least on these boards

Fingon
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:47 AM
you really can't. the sad thing is that the person who actually made the mistake isn't getting as much blame as they should be getting...:rolleyes: ...at least on these boards
yes, I think he is the real culprit. In his favour I can say anyone makes error, but when you are in a position like that, errors are not acceptable, tough luck, anyways, he is out.

What I don't get is why nobody told him he made a mistake, I don't mean the players but the line people, the tournament referee?

Jericho
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:51 AM
yes, I think he is the real culprit. In his favour I can say anyone makes error, but when you are in a position like that, errors are not acceptable, tough luck, anyways, he is out.

What I don't get is why nobody told him he made a mistake, I don't mean the players but the line people, the tournament referee?
oh yeah of course people can make mistakes. But what made me mad is that he didn't even apologize or accept blame, he even blamed Venus for not telling him.

I know, im :confused: as to why the commentators couldnt have sent someone down there or called the referee to correct them. Anyways...its over, but i wonder how long we'll be discussing this issue.

WhatTheDeuce
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:52 AM
I don't feel sorry for the little cheat, it's amazing how some people seems to forget Venus and Serena are just as human as Sprem, but they never get any pitty. I'm glad Sprem is only getting just a little of what Venus and Serena faces everyday. Just think if they came down hard on her as they do WS she probably would commit suicide.
:haha: Either a troll, or... :scared:

hingis-seles
Jun 26th, 2004, 11:00 AM
Is Karolina "deaf, dumb, and blind that she couldn't correct the umpire"? Or maybe she knew and did want to say anything? Can't be both ways... :rolleyes:
"maybe" being the key word. If Venus did not know, then it's fair to assume K-Lina did not know. Case Closed.

The umpire screwed up. Venus is out of Wimbledon in the 2nd Round. Get over it.

Something even worse happened to Monica when she played Mary Joe Fernandez in 1989. :rolleyes:

flyingmachine
Jun 26th, 2004, 12:04 PM
I think it was distasteful the way the Wimbledon website and the British media tried to brush the incident "under the rug".

GO MEGHANN! YOU'RE GOING TO :smash: KAROLINA SPERM!
Well the only reason why US media are on about because an American lost if this happened to a player from another country they will not give it a damn.

jenny161185
Jun 26th, 2004, 12:10 PM
I agree Karolina did nothing wrong she played the point correctly and people criticising her for being dishonest is just stupid

bandabou
Jun 26th, 2004, 12:15 PM
For the record....just to clean my name: at the beginning I had the feeling that Karolina looked like she know because she was smiling with the umpire, but when they re-played the whole thing again, she really looked confused and it was the umpire who said it was aight. I never said Karolina cheated or anything.

In fact I´m more mad at Venus because how can a player with so much experience NOT know the score in a tie-break when she´s already down....plus how can she waste THREE straight set-points?!

AjdeNate!
Jun 26th, 2004, 12:49 PM
And my last point about this. Sprem lost her chance to serve. So she TOO was at a disadvantage in the tiebreak. Venus served more points than K-Lina. So, Karolina was cheated in this mess too.

bandabou
Jun 26th, 2004, 12:52 PM
And my last point about this. Sprem lost her chance to serve. So she TOO was at a disadvantage in the tiebreak. Venus served more points than K-Lina. So, Karolina was cheated in this mess too.


Hey you might be on something there.....:lol: but that IS the thing. She won an extra point while in fact she only served once, so she wasn´t exactly cheated.

Bright Red
Jun 26th, 2004, 12:53 PM
And my last point about this. Sprem lost her chance to serve. So she TOO was at a disadvantage in the tiebreak. Venus served more points than K-Lina. So, Karolina was cheated in this mess too.
??? But if she were awarded a point anyway, doesn't that mean she was given a point without having to win it?

AjdeNate!
Jun 26th, 2004, 12:58 PM
My point is Venus served more times in the tiebreaker. It's not fair. I want the chair upmires ass hung up a flag pole. Now.

Cheat. Lies. Deception. Outcry.

I think it's nationalism. Don't let the Croatian girl serve - give the other girl more serves. No, we don't like the Croatian girl.



:yawn:

Bright Red
Jun 26th, 2004, 01:01 PM
Oh, I see what you're saying now. I didn't really analyze it to that level.

You can be upset about it, although I don't see why you would be given that Sprem won.

Dava
Jun 26th, 2004, 01:03 PM
Look I was in the audience for that match, and I was confused as to what went on, cos they served twice intoi the ad court, and I heard a call of let. I though they were re playing the point but the umpire had awarded Sprem the point instead of whatever else was supposed to have happened. It really p[ut a dapmner on the a great match to watch. I think Karolina played better on the big points, remember in tennis not all points are equal.

AjdeNate!
Jun 26th, 2004, 01:04 PM
I'm really not mad about anything.... I'm just looking for a new slant here cuz I'm bored with this debate. :lol:

Bright Red
Jun 26th, 2004, 01:17 PM
I'm really not mad about anything.... I'm just looking for a new slant here cuz I'm bored with this debate. :lol:
Got it.:)

Jericho
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:30 PM
Well they also switched sides too early, that could be a disadvantage to someone

tennisfun
Jun 26th, 2004, 04:03 PM
I don't even know how Karolina plays, I could only see a couple of shot against Venus, but I am really starting to feel sorry for her.

She is very young and unexperience, she gets the biggest win of her life and everything is ruined because of ONE point.

Really, to save my life I can't see the difference between wrong scoring and a bad line call, in both cases a player gets a point that she didn't win, duh!

that happens all the fucking times, in all matches. It is normal and all professional players need to live with it. Shit happens, they face wrong decisions all the time.

And all Karolina did was to keep playing. She didn't ask for the umpire to count the points wrong. Venus did not say anything yet people assume that Venus kept her match shut because she was afraid of the crowd (in Wimbledon centre court on a weekday whatever) while Karolina was the devil. Venus herself said that she wasn't sure about the score, but even her fans prefer not to believe her, no Venus was just didn't want to create trouble. That's the kind of behaviour that pisses me off, they deny everything to prove a point, even the victim's own words.

I really hope this stops, for Karolina's sake. Now anything she does or doesn't do will be scrutinize, the poor girl will be accused of everything, and 10 years from now whe will still be hearing the same bullshit. I know because Justine went through the same, because she made one mistake then any accusation agaisnt her was taken like "I told you she is a bitch" and at the end that affected her (eg US Open not calling the trainer when she has cramps).

I hope Karolina has enough character to tell the press to fuck off, and I hope nobody takes a cheap shot at her, as some did with Justine. She is young and unexperienced and this could ruin her career. This is one the inepts of the WTA should come forward and protect their players of media bullshit, but they don't seem to care for anyone not named Kournikova.

Mark my words. If Karolina starts winning big now, she will be haunted for this for years to come, and any minimun incident will be taken against her. Who said that in the american justice system everyone is innocent until proven guilty?, not if you dared to offend one of the Williams.

PD: this is not a shot at Venus who has been the only person really classy in this whole issue, it's the media and SOME fans that get on my nerves, and Andy PrickYou are a mad cow. Get real!

decemberlove
Jun 26th, 2004, 04:17 PM
what i really dont understand is how people are assuming karolina knew . a young and inexperienced player . if an extremely experienced venus lost track, why is it so hard to believe karolina was also confused?

i do believe the incident will pass . maybe not on the boards [cos people here seem to have problems letting go of the past] but with the media it will

Fingon
Jun 27th, 2004, 06:54 AM
You are a mad cow. Get real!
such an intelligent poster

you are really an idiot, didn't you have enough oxygen when you were born? because only brain damage could explain it.

Jakeev
Jun 27th, 2004, 07:12 AM
yes, I am an idiot, I can't understand, now :wavey:
:lol: Your doing again Fingon. Doesn't Macho Pichu remind you of an certain old board poster that no matter how many times you proved something is blue that person would still say pink.

Honey why do you still bother?

Fingon
Jun 27th, 2004, 07:13 AM
:lol: Your doing again Fingon. Doesn't Macho Pichu remind you of an certain old board poster that no matter how many times you proved something is blue that person would still say pink.

Honey why do you still bother?
it wasn't directed to Machu Pichu

cynicole
Jun 27th, 2004, 07:47 AM
Just got back from my vacation and I've been able to pour over a lot of articles I'm surprised that practically all of the writers lay the blame where it should be - with the officiating. (Haven't read Reuters or AP though.)

I've only really been able to follow what's been on the board (and not for long at that) and what they've saying on NBC and ESPN -- and the yakking on TV is so completely overboard.

Something is seriously wrong with how tennis is being talked about on television.

DevilishAttitude
Apr 27th, 2005, 06:38 PM
Venus should of asked for the point. Her own fault she lost. Could have in straights anyway.

Ballbuster was a Williams fan alias :lol: I'm pretty sure he's still here on this board. :bounce:

AjdeNate!
Apr 27th, 2005, 06:46 PM
:shrug:
WEll, I love the K-Lina bump but what's the occassion.

DevilishAttitude
Apr 27th, 2005, 06:59 PM
Blame this ;) http://rebecca.proboards12.com/index.cgi?board=shooting&num=1108616271&action=display&start=495

Read the page before that to get the idea :lol: