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DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 02:21 AM
This was written by a fan on another board. I found it very interesting and wanted to share it with my fellow Williams' and Venus fans. To the other fans, do you feel this is an accurate portrayal of Vee and if not, what controvertable evidence can you present?

"THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT VENUS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Without a doubt the most unfairly maligned, misrepresented, and criticized player in WTA history is Venus Williams. It's absolutely astonishing and mind boggling how consistently WRONG a great many people in the tennis world among sports/tennis journalists and fans alike have been about exactly who Venus really is and has actually accomplished in her extraordinary career. After reading and listening to so much of the shockingly distorted and highly erroneous reports, commentary, and (mis)informed opinion over the last past decade (and especially during the Queen's amazing career over the past five 'new millenial years') I simply can't sit back any longer and consume any more outright LIES about what Venus has done in and for the game of tennis. I was especially outraged (once again) to hear the positively MORONIC rantings of Mary Joe Fernandez (the even DUMBER half of the infamous 'Dumb and Dumber' team of MJ and PS) during Venus's matrch yesterday. Cliff Drysdale asked Dumber/MJ if she thought Venus deserved her special ranking of #4 seed in this years French Open and whether the Queen's actual ranking of #9 was actually reflective of the quality of her overall outstanding record vis-a-vis the players currently ranked above her. Incredibly Dumbest actually said that Venus should not be ranked above Davenport(!) at the French (Lindsay is seeded #5 or one step behind Venus in this year's FO) because Venus is --now get this willya!--LESS CONSISTENT on the clay surface!! This ridiculous comment was made in spite of the glaring fact that Venus has a FAR better record overall on clay and at the FO than Lindsay. Cliff said openly that he thought Venus's seeding was well deserved on the merits and was "very surprised" (his words) that Dumbest thought otherwise given Venus's sterling record. Dumbest then when on to make the objectively INSANE statement that Venus must show "more consistency generally" if she wants to get back in the top 5 and play with the likes of Henin-Hardenne (against whom Venus is 7-1 lifetime--the Lying little creep hasn't beaten Venus in three years and is 0-3 against the Queen lifetime in Grand slam events). This was mere minutes after both Drysdale and Dumbest pointed out that Venus is THE ONLY UNDEFEATED WOMEAN'S PLAYER ON CLAY THIS YEAR WITH A 15-0 (and after yesterday's victory 16-0). How's that for extreme clinical schizophrenia? Dumbest also can't seem to do simple ARITHMETIC. Since when is a PERFECT winning record of 1,000% considered a mark of "inconsistency"? Drysdale was clearly shocked by Dumbest's bizarre ramblings and asserted once again that he felt that Venus's seeding was not only deserved but that she was easily one of the best players in the world (official current rankings notwithstanding) before finally giving up on Dumbest and changing the subject.
Given the kind of relentless stupidity and vicious mendacity exhibited by media cretins like Dumbest/MJ I am going to once and for all settle the matter of revealing exactly what Venus's actual career record is on all 4 major playing surfaces in order to destroy the pernicious myth/lie that Venus is not historically one of the GREATEST PLAYERS IN THE HISTORY OF TENNIS BASED ON HER ACTUAL RECORD. So here goes. The next time anyone tells you that Venus "can't do this" of "hasn't/can't do that" in the game please refer these idiots to the REAL FACTS:

--ON CLAY: Venus not only has the best record on clay in 2004 but she is #5 and rising on the ALL TIME LIST of all woman players in terms of win-loss record. She passed Hingis yesterday and is and has a caeer record of 72-16 or .818. Only 4 other players IN HISTORY have a higher winning record on clay and Venus is even on track to pass one of them and be barely behind number 3 by the time this year's FO is over if she wins it: Only Graf, Evert, Seles, and Henin-Hardenne (who at .826 is barely ahead of Venus at this point) have better winning records on clay. So much for all the endless BS talk about so-called "claycourt specialists", huh?

--ON GRASS: Venus is #4 and rising all time on grass in her career (38-7 or .844). Only Navratilova, Graf, and Evert are ahead of her and Venus could pass Evert for 3rd place if she runs the table at Wimbledon this year.

--ON HARD COURT: Venus is #5 and rising all time on hard courts lifetime with a record of 202-37 or .845. Only Graf, Navratilova, Evert and Serena has a higher winning percentage than Venus in their careers and Venus is only a mere 8 points behind Serena for 4th place (Serena is at .853) and only 15 points behind Evert (.859) for 3rd place lifetime both of which Venus could easily make up and pass both Evert and Serena with another typically successful hardcourt season this year.

--ALL TIME WIN-LOSS RECORD: Venus is #6 and rising in career win-loss percentage with a record of 354-75 or .825. Only Evert, Graf, Navratilova, Serena and Seles have a higher winning percentage lifetime and Serena at .842 is only a mere 17 points ahead of Venus in 4th place and Seles at .830 in 5th place is about to be surpassed by Venus very soon. Also keep in mind that Venus is already in the top 10 lifetime in Grand Slam titles among women players with 4 GS titles (and counting) and is number 3 lifetime (behind only Seles and Serena) among all active players in the WTA in Grand Slam titles. Venus is also an eyepopping 135-17 or .888 in the WTA since the French Open, 2001 (and is 134-11 or .925 against everyone in the WTA--not counting Serena--during this same period)

What all of this means of course is not only is Venus one of the top two players in the WTA today on ALL SURFACES but that she is among the top 5 in the entire HISTORY of the woman's game ALREADY and is well on her way to becoming one of the greatest who ever played period based on strictly objective, quantifiable criteria alone (not to mention her unprecedented impact on the game of tennis in many other areas beyond wins, losses, and titles. "Consistency" my ass! Venus's record is WAY beyond that. "

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 02:38 AM
Wow talk about being defensive for a simple comment.

The French just respected the protected ranking the WTA suggests. I agree with that decision, it did make sense. Though I can see why someone would think it's unfair to Davenport (now she possibly has to face Mauresmo in the 1/4F).
I personally don't see Mary Joe's point. It doesn't make sense, especially since all of the rest of the commentators when asked, said that Venus' seeding made perfect sense. The only thing I can chalk Mary Joe's comment up to is that she is friends with Lindsay and it was personal.

Freewoman33
May 29th, 2004, 02:39 AM
Amen.

Berlin_Calling
May 29th, 2004, 02:39 AM
This guy has some major anger issues :tape:

Ryan
May 29th, 2004, 02:40 AM
Oh please, this guy needs to take a chill pill. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but this guy is whack.

Black Mamba.
May 29th, 2004, 02:40 AM
That post was right on target. I get sick and tired of some of these commentators taking cheap shots at the sisters, but in their post match interviews act all buddy buddy.

Berlin_Calling
May 29th, 2004, 02:44 AM
As for the seeding, I think that Venus deserves the #4 seeding very much. She has been rolling in her last few tournaments and she was a finalist here two years ago. The best Lindsay has done at RG is a semifinalist in 1998(?). But still, this guy needs to calm down, geez.

darrinbaker00
May 29th, 2004, 02:44 AM
****NITPICK ALERT****
Whoever wrote that failed to mention that Venus is "only" .772 (61-18) indoors. Once they put that roof on Centre Court at Wimbledon, she's doomed! :eek:

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 02:44 AM
This guy has some major anger issues :tape:

Which one? DeMond? Or the schmuck that she ripped that article off from?

CC
May 29th, 2004, 02:45 AM
Well yes, he took Mary Joe to task, but it's also a response to reports and commentaries overall that tend to under-rate Venus' achievements.

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 02:46 AM
****NITPICK ALERT****
Whoever wrote that failed to mention that Venus is "only" .772 (61-18) indoors. Once they put that roof on Centre Court at Wimbledon, she's doomed! :eek:

You misspelled "NERD". It doesn't have an "NIT" or a "PICK" in it.

Berlin_Calling
May 29th, 2004, 02:47 AM
Which one? DeMond? Or the schmuck that she ripped that article off from?
The "schmuck" of course ;)

Freewoman33
May 29th, 2004, 02:50 AM
I personally don't see Mary Joe's point. It doesn't make sense, especially since all of the rest of the commentators when asked, said that Venus' seeding made perfect sense. The only thing I can chalk Mary Joe's comment up to is that she is friends with Lindsay and it was personal.

MJ was only speaking up for her "Girlfriend".

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 02:51 AM
Which one? DeMond? Or the schmuck that she ripped that article off from?
See...you just can't leave me alone. Here :kiss: maybe that will make you feel better and go away.

:wavey:

P.S., it's not an article. It's a comment and it wasn't ripped off. It's in quotes and I gave the person credit, except I didn't use his name.

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 02:53 AM
You misspelled "NERD". It doesn't have an "NIT" or a "PICK" in it.
Do you have anything constructive to add? If not, go troll somewhere else.

treiber04
May 29th, 2004, 02:55 AM
Interesting...

Black Mamba.
May 29th, 2004, 02:57 AM
I knew Vee was really good, but those numbers are staggering. Love her or hate her the numbers and the winning % speaks for itself.

darrinbaker00
May 29th, 2004, 03:12 AM
You misspelled "NERD". It doesn't have an "NIT" or a "PICK" in it.
You should have tried out for NBC's "Last Comic Standing." With stuff like that, there's no way you'd lose. :tape:

Back to the thread topic.....Venus' numbers do speak for themselves, and do you know what they say? "Irina Spirlea was right! I AM THE BLEEPING VENUS WILLIAMS!!" ;)

CC
May 29th, 2004, 03:16 AM
But it seems people have either selective memory or tend to exagerrate. Except the "they're cold as ice" of McEnroe and Evert biased commentary, in general 80% of stuff being said about Venus is positive by commentators.
To some extent yes, she is commended for her class and her competitive spirit. But she is often thought of as the less talented sister, technically unsound (bad serve and forehand), moves the wrong way on the court (especially clay court), disinterested and without real love for the sport, and she has a "power-game" which is apparently inferior to finesse etc. Irregardless, her accomplishments aren't that far off from the leading record holders, are they?

Joseosu19
May 29th, 2004, 03:17 AM
Venus one of the top 5 ever? Ha. :tape:

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 03:29 AM
To some extent yes, she is commended for her class and her competitive spirit. But she is often thought of as the less talented sister, technically unsound (bad serve and forehand), moves the wrong way on the court (especially clay court), disinterested and without real love for the sport, and she has a "power-game" which is apparently inferior to finesse etc. Irregardless, her accomplishments aren't that far off from the leading record holders, are they?
This is what Venus has to say about her own clay court career.

""The myth that I am not a clay-court player is just not true. I admit that I don't need a calculator to tally the number of clay-court titles to my name (six), but I am proud of them! I also realize that the power game that I play classifies me as more likely to win Wimbledon (on grass) instead of the French Open.

"What I have learned over the last nine years is that I can use my power to my advantage on this tricky surface, but muscle is not always the answer. On the other hand, I could never allow myself to retreat behind the baseline and wait for my opponent to make a mistake. The power in my game is one of the factors that has allowed me to achieve everything that I have in this game. However, I have learned that mixing a pinch of spin and a dash of patience with my natural power game is the perfect recipe for getting into the clay-court rhythm.

"Today in practice, I was gradually able to get into that rhythm, which eluded me in my first-round match (against Tamarine Tanasugarn). I was also moving better today in practice because I feel much more at ease on my ankle (which was strained three weeks ago on clay). My mom, always the voice of reason, reminded me that I should not be too vigorous and to save the best for (today's match vs. Jelena Kostanic). What I don't think many people realize is that I love to play on clay. Clay challenges me to evolve my game, and it is these kinds of challenges that motivate me. ""

darrinbaker00
May 29th, 2004, 03:37 AM
This is what Venus has to say about her own clay court career.

""The myth that I am not a clay-court player is just not true. I admit that I don't need a calculator to tally the number of clay-court titles to my name (six), but I am proud of them! I also realize that the power game that I play classifies me as more likely to win Wimbledon (on grass) instead of the French Open.

"What I have learned over the last nine years is that I can use my power to my advantage on this tricky surface, but muscle is not always the answer. On the other hand, I could never allow myself to retreat behind the baseline and wait for my opponent to make a mistake. The power in my game is one of the factors that has allowed me to achieve everything that I have in this game. However, I have learned that mixing a pinch of spin and a dash of patience with my natural power game is the perfect recipe for getting into the clay-court rhythm.

"Today in practice, I was gradually able to get into that rhythm, which eluded me in my first-round match (against Tamarine Tanasugarn). I was also moving better today in practice because I feel much more at ease on my ankle (which was strained three weeks ago on clay). My mom, always the voice of reason, reminded me that I should not be too vigorous and to save the best for (today's match vs. Jelena Kostanic). What I don't think many people realize is that I love to play on clay. Clay challenges me to evolve my game, and it is these kinds of challenges that motivate me. ""
I must be under the influence of :drink: and/or :smoke: , because that sounds like Venus had been "thinking" and "strategizing." She and her sister NEVER do that! ;)

CC
May 29th, 2004, 03:37 AM
This is what Venus has to say about her own clay court career.

""The myth that I am not a clay-court player is just not true. I admit that I don't need a calculator to tally the number of clay-court titles to my name (six), but I am proud of them! I also realize that the power game that I play classifies me as more likely to win Wimbledon (on grass) instead of the French Open.

"What I have learned over the last nine years is that I can use my power to my advantage on this tricky surface, but muscle is not always the answer. On the other hand, I could never allow myself to retreat behind the baseline and wait for my opponent to make a mistake. The power in my game is one of the factors that has allowed me to achieve everything that I have in this game. However, I have learned that mixing a pinch of spin and a dash of patience with my natural power game is the perfect recipe for getting into the clay-court rhythm.

"Today in practice, I was gradually able to get into that rhythm, which eluded me in my first-round match (against Tamarine Tanasugarn). I was also moving better today in practice because I feel much more at ease on my ankle (which was strained three weeks ago on clay). My mom, always the voice of reason, reminded me that I should not be too vigorous and to save the best for (today's match vs. Jelena Kostanic). What I don't think many people realize is that I love to play on clay. Clay challenges me to evolve my game, and it is these kinds of challenges that motivate me. ""
^ A rational head among misinformed sheep.

Deira
May 29th, 2004, 03:49 AM
Thank you for sharing DeMond. I've often said that the very people who are criticizing Venus at this stage of her career, are the same ones who one day will loudly sing her praises, ala M. Ali. The poster you quoted nailed not only Venus' talent, but also her value to the sport. Kudoes to you and to the unnamed fan.

Kart
May 29th, 2004, 04:11 AM
Whoever wrote that needs to take a time out and look up schizophrenia in the dictionary.

RE: the stats presented, I would never claim that Venus is anything but an accomplished clay court player but I find it amusing that someone's using her being at #5 on a clay court win-loss record to justify how good she is. Venus may have a good win loss percentage but she has no French open titles to her name (yet ;)) where as someone like ASV, who has three titles, is below her ??? I think not. Statistics tell us nothing about Venus on clay IMHO - she's always been capable of great things on the surface but has yet to put them all together - I'm hoping she'll do it this year.

Greenout
May 29th, 2004, 04:15 AM
I don't understand what the big fuss is with Venus's seeding is. I would've
thought Serena's seeding may be the topic of controversy. MJ is a very,
very good friend Lindsay's. As in her relationship with Lisa Raymond, who
from what I heard again MJ and Co.. went overboard to cheer for and claim Raymond a great player to take down Venus. You may not believe me
nor even like me; but I'm pretty damn fair and neutral and will call things
as I see it. There's a huge conflict of interest here between MJF and
Lindsay, and her tv commentary. I would say even more so, that Hingis
and Justine (with their same agents, ADIDAS sponsorships PR pics), MJF's
husband is Lindsay agent. Lisa, Lindsay, MJF go to each other's private
family functions!!!!!!

I agree about the bandwagon hopping, bandwagon thrashing. It's always
been like this with the USTA/American tennis people. They have this
love/hate relationship with the Sisters. First they thought it was a joke.
Then it looked to be "real", so they all jump on the bandwagon. Things
look bad..they go on the thrashing bandwagon, and go all pro Monica/Steffi
whoever. Things look good- they jump on the bandwagon. Things go great
the USTA American media sort of act like they're part of the reasons
and jump in on celebrations.

If you want blindless/mindless bandwagon hopping go to the UK media. It's
beyond impartial to the point of adoration, which I suppose can be enjoyable;
but you'll get tired of it soon because real issues never become addressed.

Anyway. I think Venus deserved her seeding. The pre-RG tournaments have
to be taken in consideration. I can see how and why your upset. The constant
waffling from the likes of MJF during matches must be irksome as hell.

TNT96
May 29th, 2004, 05:31 AM
I agree with alot of your points but you have to remember (which I'm sure you do) that she has very high winning percentages and has not played nearly the number of matches that the all time greats have. So yes she has an excellent record but have you compared the number of matches played against the others in the record books (Navratilova, Evert, Seles, Graf, even Hingis?????)???

servenrichie
May 29th, 2004, 05:36 AM
This was written by a fan on another board. I found it very interesting and wanted to share it with my fellow Williams' and Venus fans. To the other fans, do you feel this is an accurate portrayal of Vee and if not, what controvertable evidence can you present?

"THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT VENUS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Without a doubt the most unfairly maligned, misrepresented, and criticized player in WTA history is Venus Williams. It's absolutely astonishing and mind boggling how consistently WRONG a great many people in the tennis world among sports/tennis journalists and fans alike have been about exactly who Venus really is and has actually accomplished in her extraordinary career. After reading and listening to so much of the shockingly distorted and highly erroneous reports, commentary, and (mis)informed opinion over the last past decade (and especially during the Queen's amazing career over the past five 'new millenial years') I simply can't sit back any longer and consume any more outright LIES about what Venus has done in and for the game of tennis. I was especially outraged (once again) to hear the positively MORONIC rantings of Mary Joe Fernandez (the even DUMBER half of the infamous 'Dumb and Dumber' team of MJ and PS) during Venus's matrch yesterday. Cliff Drysdale asked Dumber/MJ if she thought Venus deserved her special ranking of #4 seed in this years French Open and whether the Queen's actual ranking of #9 was actually reflective of the quality of her overall outstanding record vis-a-vis the players currently ranked above her. Incredibly Dumbest actually said that Venus should not be ranked above Davenport(!) at the French (Lindsay is seeded #5 or one step behind Venus in this year's FO) because Venus is --now get this willya!--LESS CONSISTENT on the clay surface!! This ridiculous comment was made in spite of the glaring fact that Venus has a FAR better record overall on clay and at the FO than Lindsay. Cliff said openly that he thought Venus's seeding was well deserved on the merits and was "very surprised" (his words) that Dumbest thought otherwise given Venus's sterling record. Dumbest then when on to make the objectively INSANE statement that Venus must show "more consistency generally" if she wants to get back in the top 5 and play with the likes of Henin-Hardenne (against whom Venus is 7-1 lifetime--the Lying little creep hasn't beaten Venus in three years and is 0-3 against the Queen lifetime in Grand slam events). This was mere minutes after both Drysdale and Dumbest pointed out that Venus is THE ONLY UNDEFEATED WOMEAN'S PLAYER ON CLAY THIS YEAR WITH A 15-0 (and after yesterday's victory 16-0). How's that for extreme clinical schizophrenia? Dumbest also can't seem to do simple ARITHMETIC. Since when is a PERFECT winning record of 1,000% considered a mark of "inconsistency"? Drysdale was clearly shocked by Dumbest's bizarre ramblings and asserted once again that he felt that Venus's seeding was not only deserved but that she was easily one of the best players in the world (official current rankings notwithstanding) before finally giving up on Dumbest and changing the subject.
Given the kind of relentless stupidity and vicious mendacity exhibited by media cretins like Dumbest/MJ I am going to once and for all settle the matter of revealing exactly what Venus's actual career record is on all 4 major playing surfaces in order to destroy the pernicious myth/lie that Venus is not historically one of the GREATEST PLAYERS IN THE HISTORY OF TENNIS BASED ON HER ACTUAL RECORD. So here goes. The next time anyone tells you that Venus "can't do this" of "hasn't/can't do that" in the game please refer these idiots to the REAL FACTS:

--ON CLAY: Venus not only has the best record on clay in 2004 but she is #5 and rising on the ALL TIME LIST of all woman players in terms of win-loss record. She passed Hingis yesterday and is and has a caeer record of 72-16 or .818. Only 4 other players IN HISTORY have a higher winning record on clay and Venus is even on track to pass one of them and be barely behind number 3 by the time this year's FO is over if she wins it: Only Graf, Evert, Seles, and Henin-Hardenne (who at .826 is barely ahead of Venus at this point) have better winning records on clay. So much for all the endless BS talk about so-called "claycourt specialists", huh?

--ON GRASS: Venus is #4 and rising all time on grass in her career (38-7 or .844). Only Navratilova, Graf, and Evert are ahead of her and Venus could pass Evert for 3rd place if she runs the table at Wimbledon this year.

--ON HARD COURT: Venus is #5 and rising all time on hard courts lifetime with a record of 202-37 or .845. Only Graf, Navratilova, Evert and Serena has a higher winning percentage than Venus in their careers and Venus is only a mere 8 points behind Serena for 4th place (Serena is at .853) and only 15 points behind Evert (.859) for 3rd place lifetime both of which Venus could easily make up and pass both Evert and Serena with another typically successful hardcourt season this year.

--ALL TIME WIN-LOSS RECORD: Venus is #6 and rising in career win-loss percentage with a record of 354-75 or .825. Only Evert, Graf, Navratilova, Serena and Seles have a higher winning percentage lifetime and Serena at .842 is only a mere 17 points ahead of Venus in 4th place and Seles at .830 in 5th place is about to be surpassed by Venus very soon. Also keep in mind that Venus is already in the top 10 lifetime in Grand Slam titles among women players with 4 GS titles (and counting) and is number 3 lifetime (behind only Seles and Serena) among all active players in the WTA in Grand Slam titles. Venus is also an eyepopping 135-17 or .888 in the WTA since the French Open, 2001 (and is 134-11 or .925 against everyone in the WTA--not counting Serena--during this same period)

What all of this means of course is not only is Venus one of the top two players in the WTA today on ALL SURFACES but that she is among the top 5 in the entire HISTORY of the woman's game ALREADY and is well on her way to becoming one of the greatest who ever played period based on strictly objective, quantifiable criteria alone (not to mention her unprecedented impact on the game of tennis in many other areas beyond wins, losses, and titles. "Consistency" my ass! Venus's record is WAY beyond that. ":worship: :worship:

Rocketta
May 29th, 2004, 05:46 AM
I don't understand what the big fuss is with Venus's seeding is. I would've
thought Serena's seeding may be the topic of controversy. MJ is a very,
very good friend Lindsay's. As in her relationship with Lisa Raymond, who
from what I heard again MJ and Co.. went overboard to cheer for and claim Raymond a great player to take down Venus. You may not believe me
nor even like me; but I'm pretty damn fair and neutral and will call things
as I see it. There's a huge conflict of interest here between MJF and
Lindsay, and her tv commentary. I would say even more so, that Hingis
and Justine (with their same agents, ADIDAS sponsorships PR pics), MJF's
husband is Lindsay agent. Lisa, Lindsay, MJF go to each other's private
family functions!!!!!!


Not to mention her extreme friendly relationship with Kim Clijsters which is fine if she can keep it out of her commentating. Unfortunately, she can't even a little bit. Before a Kim match I don't want to hear how the commentators had breakfast with one of the participants! That's unprofessional when your job is to be impartial. Now if your job is to take sides and cheer on one opponent then I'm fine as long as they have both sides represented...:devil:

Rocketta
May 29th, 2004, 05:48 AM
I agree with alot of your points but you have to remember (which I'm sure you do) that she has very high winning percentages and has not played nearly the number of matches that the all time greats have. So yes she has an excellent record but have you compared the number of matches played against the others in the record books (Navratilova, Evert, Seles, Graf, even Hingis?????)???depends, do you feel it's harder to have many wins when you play a limited schedule or when you are out there week in week out.

Some people feel it's harder to take long breaks and come back still in stride. It all depends on how you look at things. ;)

Aphex
May 29th, 2004, 05:53 AM
:yeah:

esqumaux
May 29th, 2004, 05:54 AM
:lol: Whoever wrote that is a pompous ass :lol:

tennisIlove09
May 29th, 2004, 05:57 AM
A little over the top? Sure. But when aren't the sisters over the top? (that's a good thing)

7~LV3
May 29th, 2004, 06:12 AM
****NITPICK ALERT****
Whoever wrote that failed to mention that Venus is "only" .772 (61-18) indoors. Once they put that roof on Centre Court at Wimbledon, she's doomed! :eek:


I think that theres a big difference on how ms Venus plays between the Indoors at the beginning of the year and the indoors during the fall.

Put a roof in Wimbledon and she still would beat the other person on the other side 90% of the time, with the exception of Serena.

Check her scores during those Paris-Antwerp matches and how she almost destroys her opponent.

Geri
May 30th, 2004, 05:35 PM
she is among the top 5 in the entire HISTORY of the woman's game ALREADY

Well we know that is not true. At the end of her career we can sort out where she is and Venus still has a lot of time to add to her records.

MJF :rolleyes: Say what you want about the pompousness of the guy's post he was right about MJF. What's her problem? :confused: Surely the fact speak for themselves.

moby
May 30th, 2004, 05:38 PM
Without a doubt the most unfairly maligned, misrepresented, and criticized player in WTA history is Venus Williams
I have a problem with this statement. Everyone is a distant second to Martina Hingis in this department.

Geri
May 30th, 2004, 05:44 PM
Without a doubt the most unfairly maligned, misrepresented, and criticized player in WTA history is Venus Williams

I have a problem with this statement. Everyone is a distant second to Martina Hingis in this department.

Actually the woman Hingis was named after could claim this particualr title. Even now Navratilova is getting criticism 20 years on (I admit I said she should have left the WC out this year) but she is still doing her thing and I :worship: her for that at least.

Martina is now highly regarded but back in the 80s she fought a lot of battles and she came through head held high.

bandabou
May 30th, 2004, 05:47 PM
tjaaa....but look who lived up to her seeding and who didnt....what is MJF gonna say now?!

hingis-seles
May 30th, 2004, 06:28 PM
Actually the woman Hingis was named after could claim this particualr title. Even now Navratilova is getting criticism 20 years on (I admit I said she should have left the WC out this year) but she is still doing her thing and I :worship: her for that at least.

Martina is now highly regarded but back in the 80s she fought a lot of battles and she came through head held high.
Word!

Martina N. :worship:

Lady
May 30th, 2004, 07:39 PM
Lol, hey, my Russian comentator during Venus match yesterday said, that Venus has won Roland Garros, and Serena hasn't, can you imagine how hard it is for me to listen to all his "facts" all the time?? ;)