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cheesestix
May 28th, 2004, 11:50 PM
After Serena's 2nd round match she said:

"I just had a bad day. I couldn’t keep a ball in," Serena said. "It was one of those days. When I practiced I felt a little weird. I was just spraying balls. I made a thousand mistakes."

But if you really look at the stats, it ain't like Kirilenko had a great match either. :rolleyes: Although some would say she had the "match of her career." :rolleyes:

Match Summary

Kirilenko (RUS) Williams (USA)

1st Serve % 55 of 92 = 60 % 50 of 82 = 61 %
Aces 1 3
Double Faults 6 3
Unforced Errors 20 26
Winning % on 1st Serve 32 of 55 = 58 % 32 of 50 = 64 %
Winning % on 2nd Serve 20 of 37 = 54 % 19 of 32 = 59 %
Winners (Including Service) 15 30
Receiving Points Won 31 of 82 = 38 % 40 of 92 = 43 %
Break Point Conversions 4 of 7 = 57 % 6 of 14 = 43 %
Net Approaches 8 of 15 = 53 % 10 of 16 = 63 %
Total Points Won 83 91
Fastest Serve 161 km/h 185 km/h
Average 1st Serve Speed 148 km/h 160 km/h
Average 2nd Serve Speed 129 km/h 132 km/h

Hmmm, exactly WHERE did Kirilenko have better stats than Serena????? I don't see it. Serena had twice as many winners, and only 26 UFEs. That doesn't sound like "a thousand mistakes" or like she's "spraying the ball", does it?

Comparatively, Serena beat Benesova EASILY, but in that match she had 29 UFEs. So who is she kidding?????

Sounds like excuses to me. And people wonder where she gets the "arrogant" label from? :rolleyes:

Maybe Kirilenko is better than people think? But it ain't like either player had a GREAT or BAD match, going by the stats. Looked pretty even.

What am I missing?

jrm
May 29th, 2004, 12:04 AM
EGO ALERT by SERNA

darrinbaker00
May 29th, 2004, 12:04 AM
Only you, Mt. Rushmore, could accuse someone of "making excuses" after a win.....

Eurotennisfan
May 29th, 2004, 12:08 AM
Haven't you heard?...Serena loves to make mountains out mole-hills. I got used to it already. :yawn:

dreamgoddess099
May 29th, 2004, 12:09 AM
You printed the over all match stats. It looks different when you break it down by sets. Most of Serena's better play and better stats happened in the second set which she won 6-2. She played worse in the first and third sets. She was down 2-5 in the first and didn't have great stats, then down 2-4 in the third with bad stats again. If she was the was playing better the entire match, then why was she down breaks in 2 out 3 sets? Also, this stat doesn't show how many errors where counted as forced because Serena had way more than just 26 errors.

dreamgoddess099
May 29th, 2004, 12:10 AM
EGO ALERT by SERNAI don't think Maui(sp) fans would like you saying that.

Foot_Fault
May 29th, 2004, 12:11 AM
serena said in PRACTICE, she sprayed 1000's of balls, in the match, she couldn't keep a ball in.

dreamgoddess099
May 29th, 2004, 12:16 AM
Haven't you heard?...Serena loves to make mountains out mole-hills. I got used to it already. :yawn:Talk about making mountains of mole hills, some people are hanging on to Serena's every word like a squirrel to a nut; or your mom to your dad's. :tape:

Kabezya
May 29th, 2004, 12:17 AM
What explanation? Serena gave her explanation and you don't buy it. An explanation isn't something you are looking for especially when you've made up your mind as to what Serena has said and what she meant. A change in subject title doesn't change your own opinion or intent of this thread.

SerenaSlam
May 29th, 2004, 12:17 AM
After Serena's 2nd round match she said:

"I just had a bad day. I couldn’t keep a ball in," Serena said. "It was one of those days. When I practiced I felt a little weird. I was just spraying balls. I made a thousand mistakes."

But if you really look at the stats, it ain't like Kirilenko had a great match either. :rolleyes: Although some would say she had the "match of her career." :rolleyes:

Match Summary

Kirilenko (RUS) Williams (USA)

1st Serve % 55 of 92 = 60 % 50 of 82 = 61 %
Aces 1 3
Double Faults 6 3
Unforced Errors 20 26
Winning % on 1st Serve 32 of 55 = 58 % 32 of 50 = 64 %
Winning % on 2nd Serve 20 of 37 = 54 % 19 of 32 = 59 %
Winners (Including Service) 15 30
Receiving Points Won 31 of 82 = 38 % 40 of 92 = 43 %
Break Point Conversions 4 of 7 = 57 % 6 of 14 = 43 %
Net Approaches 8 of 15 = 53 % 10 of 16 = 63 %
Total Points Won 83 91
Fastest Serve 161 km/h 185 km/h
Average 1st Serve Speed 148 km/h 160 km/h
Average 2nd Serve Speed 129 km/h 132 km/h

Hmmm, exactly WHERE did Kirilenko have better stats than Serena????? I don't see it. Serena had twice as many winners, and only 26 UFEs. That doesn't sound like "a thousand mistakes" or like she's "spraying the ball", does it?

Comparatively, Serena beat Benesova EASILY, but in that match she had 29 UFEs. So who is she kidding?????

Sounds like excuses to me. And people wonder where she gets the "arrogant" label from? :rolleyes:

Maybe Kirilenko is better than people think? But it ain't like either player had a GREAT or BAD match, going by the stats. Looked pretty even.

What am I missing?
serena and venus have always been really hard on themselves. that critique them selves very well and somtimes it seems like they go overboard but you know what the following round they look good. So we will see tomorrow how things look for Serena. But I don't think the match was to great b/c there were a lot of errors.

dreamgoddess099
May 29th, 2004, 12:18 AM
What am I missing?
Dipping sauce maybe?

Martian Willow
May 29th, 2004, 12:23 AM
Talk about making mountains of mole hills, some people are hanging on to Serena's every word like a squirrel to a nut; or your mom to your dad's. :tape:

...as a Martina fan, I know how irritating that is... :)

darrinbaker00
May 29th, 2004, 12:23 AM
Serena made those comments because she thought she played poorly. I don't agree with that sentiment, but I wasn't the one out on the court. If she expects to win every match 6-2, 6-2, good for her, because that tells me she's not satisfied with where she is. People like "cheesestix" will dislike Serena and Venus no matter what, so explaining things to them won't do a bit of good. ;)

the cat
May 29th, 2004, 12:26 AM
The bottom line is that Serena had 30 winners and only 26 unforced errors in her 3 set win over Maria Kirilenko. And that's not alot of unforced errors for Serena in a 3 set match. I believe Serena's greatest assest as a tennis player is limiting her opponenets winners. Kirilenko had 15 winners and played a good all court match. But Serena's tremendous court coverage and great defense always limits her opponents abilty to hit winners.

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 12:29 AM
Only you, Mt. Rushmore, could accuse someone of "making excuses" after a win.....

Mt Rushmore?

Only SERENA would make excuses AFTER A WIN! You know that she does, as do her fans.

She makes excuses to explain why she struggled against a no-name player. She has to have some excuse for why she didnt' win 6-0 6-0, right? Because we all know she's perfect. :rolleyes: IMHO, in her mind, she's perfect, unbeatable, and she has to say something to convince others (and herself) of why she didn't dominate.

Fans do the same damn thing sometimes....."Serena played like shit, her opponent had the match of her career" :rolleyes:

Anyone can look at the stats and tell that it was a close, even match.

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 12:32 AM
Serena made those comments because she thought she played poorly. I don't agree with that sentiment, but I wasn't the one out on the court. If she expects to win every match 6-2, 6-2, good for her, because that tells me she's not satisfied with where she is. People like "cheesestix" will dislike Serena and Venus no matter what, so explaining things to them won't do a bit of good. ;)

No, if they weren't so arrogant, and some of their fans weren't such assholes, I would probably like them more.

But you will like them no matter what they do, and some of their fans refuse to accept anything they do as wrong or inappropriate.

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 12:36 AM
What explanation? Serena gave her explanation and you don't buy it. An explanation isn't something you are looking for especially when you've made up your mind as to what Serena has said and what she meant. A change in subject title doesn't change your own opinion or intent of this thread.

What does change in title have to do with anything? I said in the body of the first post that I thought she was making excuses. Not trying to hide anything.

Tell me how 26 UFEs is high for Serena???? In fact, isn't that low???

Her stats in this match are about the same as her match against Benesova, who she beat very easily. So maybe her opponent just happened to give her a tough time in round 2, rather than her making so many mistakes? And again, her stats were pretty even (in fact, a little better) than Kirilenko's.

dreamgoddess099
May 29th, 2004, 12:38 AM
Serena made those comments because she thought she played poorly. I don't agree with that sentiment, but I wasn't the one out on the court. If she expects to win every match 6-2, 6-2, good for her, because that tells me she's not satisfied with where she is. People like "cheesestix" will dislike Serena and Venus no matter what, so explaining things to them won't do a bit of good. ;)
You're right. She felt that she didn't play as well as she could, and she didn't. The woman has beaten far better opponents with more ease many times before. People need to stop acting like Serena played any where near to the form that has won her 6 grandslams. We are talking about someone who usually rolls through second round grandslam matches ( no matter the opponent.) , You'd think people would understand why she has such high standards for herself. If that makes her arrogant, then I guess I'd rather be an arrogant multiple grandslam champion than a so-called humble losers.

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 12:39 AM
serena and venus have always been really hard on themselves. that critique them selves very well and somtimes it seems like they go overboard but you know what the following round they look good. So we will see tomorrow how things look for Serena. But I don't think the match was to great b/c there were a lot of errors.

But if you look at the stats, she didn't really have that bad of a match. More winners than Kirilenko, almost the same UFEs, and less double faults. Her stats were better than Kirilenko's.

You may be right. They may just honestly be hard on themselves, and "go overboard", but to some people it sounds like they're making excuses. Maybe it's not intentional, but that's the way it comes off.

darrinbaker00
May 29th, 2004, 12:42 AM
No, if they weren't so arrogant, and some of their fans weren't such assholes, I would probably like them more.

But you will like them no matter what they do, and some of their fans refuse to accept anything they do as wrong or inappropriate.
Please reread that post. I said that I did not agree with Serena's assessment that she played poorly. Besides, who are you to deem what's "wrong or inappropriate" for other people? That, young man, is how I know that you're "maliksimmsjennings" from the Yahoo boards, and please don't insult me by denying it.

Hulet
May 29th, 2004, 12:43 AM
Cheesestix, where could I find the whole interview? Can you give me a link? Thanks.

Sonja
May 29th, 2004, 12:44 AM
I think Serena sets a high standard for herself and she felt she didn't play up to that standard. I don't understand what's so offensive about that.

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 12:44 AM
Cheesestix, where could I find the whole interview? Can you give me a link? Thanks.

http://www.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/news/articles/2004-05-27/200405271085680237596.html

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 12:45 AM
Only you, Mt. Rushmore, could accuse someone of "making excuses" after a win.....
:lol: :lol: :lol: True, so true. :lol: :lol: :lol:

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 12:49 AM
Please reread that post. I said that I did not agree with Serena's assessment that she played poorly. Besides, who are you to deem what's "wrong or inappropriate" for other people? That, young man, is how I know that you're "maliksimmsjennings" from the Yahoo boards, and please don't insult me by denying it.

Where did I say that you DID agree with her assessment?

Who the fuck is "maliksimsjennings"? I have not a clue what you're talking about, but in case you didn't know it, it's a BIG world.

Hulet
May 29th, 2004, 12:50 AM
http://www.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/news/articles/2004-05-27/200405271085680237596.html
Bah. I was hoping for the full transcript of the interview. So, all this hoopla is based on four or five statments out of her full interview. Have anyone heard of the phrase "out of context"? :rolleyes:

Thanks anyways. :wavey:

VS Fan
May 29th, 2004, 12:51 AM
I normally do not support anti-Williams posters, but Cheesestix is RIGHT.

Serena played a rather good game and SO DID Maria. I saw many of Serena's "normal winners" get returned by this 17 year old. There were MANY unbelievable rallys. This was a very good match.

Remember Serena at 16 was #304 when she took out TWO of the top ten players in Chicago in 1998. This girl just MIGHT be a rising star in the next few years.

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 12:51 AM
Please reread that post. I said that I did not agree with Serena's assessment that she played poorly. Besides, who are you to deem what's "wrong or inappropriate" for other people? That, young man, is how I know that you're "maliksimmsjennings" from the Yahoo boards, and please don't insult me by denying it.
Or Blueberrypieguy... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Volcana
May 29th, 2004, 12:52 AM
After you win six slams, you tend to have high standards.

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 12:54 AM
Please reread that post. I said that I did not agree with Serena's assessment that she played poorly. Besides, who are you to deem what's "wrong or inappropriate" for other people? That, young man, is how I know that you're "maliksimmsjennings" from the Yahoo boards, and please don't insult me by denying it.

BTW, like I don't have a right to MY opinion?

You basically said that I'm not objective. Well, most of you Williams fans aren't either. That's the point that I was trying to make.

Knizzle
May 29th, 2004, 12:57 AM
Where did Serena ever say that Kirilenko played the match of her life??? Serena said that she herself sprayed balls which at times during the match she did.

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 01:02 AM
I normally do not support anti-Williams posters, but Cheesestix is RIGHT.

Serena played a rather good game and SO DID Maria. I saw many of Serena's "normal winners" get returned by this 17 year old. There were MANY unbelievable rallys. This was a very good match.

Remember Serena at 16 was #304 when she took out TWO of the top ten players in Chicago in 1998. This girl just MIGHT be a rising star in the next few years.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This thread is NOT intended to "hate" on Serena. I'm just pointing out an example (a timely one) of why some people don't like Serena or see her as arrogant. People read comments like the one that I posted and have the same reaction that I had to them, especially after looking at the stats. Your comments are absolutely right! Kirilenko could be the next phenom!

I'm just surprised (not really) that more people can't be objective once in a while.

darrinbaker00 did say that he didn't agree with Serena's comment, however, he had to throw in a little disclaimer. Then he attacked me. That kind of reaction just adds to the anti-Williams sentiment. Why can't someone give their opinion without being attacked? Anything negative, and you're usually called racist or something.

Sadly, most can't be as objective as you are.

Thanks again!

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 01:03 AM
BTW, like I don't have a right to MY opinion?

You basically said that I'm not objective. Well, most of you Williams fans aren't either. That's the point that I was trying to make.
So how can the pot continually call the kettle black? :tape:

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 01:05 AM
Where did Serena ever say that Kirilenko played the match of her life??? Serena said that she herself sprayed balls which at times during the match she did.

Where did I ever say that SERENA said that??????

Read that post again. This time, read it a little more closely. I said that THE FANS say stuff like that. Care to dispute THAT claim?

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 01:06 AM
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This thread is NOT intended to "hate" on Serena. I'm just pointing out an example (a timely one) of why some people don't like Serena or see her as arrogant. People read comments like the one that I posted and have the same reaction that I had to them, especially after looking at the stats. Your comments are absolutely right! Kirilenko could be the next phenom!

I'm just surprised (not really) that more people can't be objective once in a while.

darrinbaker00 did say that he didn't agree with Serena's comment, however, he had to throw in a little disclaimer. Then he attacked me. That kind of reaction just adds to the anti-Williams sentiment. Why can't someone give their opinion without being attacked? Anything negative, and you're usually called racist or something.

Sadly, most can't be as objective as you are.

Thanks again!

:rolleyes:
Why can't you ever be objective? Why do you feel that the Williams' sisters or their fans need or want your likes or dislikes or anyone else's for that matter? I think you have a problem with superiority.

Knizzle
May 29th, 2004, 01:09 AM
Where did I ever say that SERENA said that??????

Read that post again. This time, read it a little more closely. I said that THE FANS say stuff like that. Care to dispute THAT claim?
Why are you posting a quote from Serena instead of a quote from her fans?? Post the quotes from the fans.

darrinbaker00
May 29th, 2004, 01:10 AM
You're right. She felt that she didn't play as well as she could, and she didn't. The woman has beaten far better opponents with more ease many times before. People need to stop acting like Serena played any where near to the form that has won her 6 grandslams. We are talking about someone who usually rolls through second round grandslam matches ( no matter the opponent.) , You'd think people would understand why she has such high standards for herself. If that makes her arrogant, then I guess I'd rather be an arrogant multiple grandslam champion than a so-called humble losers.
I'm right? I mean, OF COURSE I'M RIGHT! :rolleyes:

Seriously, though, every great athlete has/had the same near-pathological self-confidence that Serena has. When Michael Jordan had the ball in his hands with the game on the line, did missing the shot ever cross his mind? Of course not. When Joe Montana or John Elway had to go 90 yards in less than two minutes to tie or win the game, did they ever think they'd come up short? Of course not. In order to be successful at whatever you do, you have to believe you can do it. Serena Williams believed that she could beat Maria Kirilenko in straights, and when she didn't, she was unhappy with herself. Keep aiming high, Warrior Princess (but please wear the one-piece outfit when you do it). ;)

Kabezya
May 29th, 2004, 01:11 AM
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This thread is NOT intended to "hate" on Serena. I'm just pointing out an example (a timely one) of why some people don't like Serena or see her as arrogant. People read comments like the one that I posted and have the same reaction that I had to them, especially after looking at the stats. Your comments are absolutely right! Kirilenko could be the next phenom!

I'm just surprised (not really) that more people can't be objective once in a while.

darrinbaker00 did say that he didn't agree with Serena's comment, however, he had to throw in a little disclaimer. Then he attacked me. That kind of reaction just adds to the anti-Williams sentiment. Why can't someone give their opinion without being attacked? Anything negative, and you're usually called racist or something.

Sadly, most can't be as objective as you are.

Thanks again!

You call people out of their names and you complain about being attacked?

How many of these similar threads do you need to make about why some people find Serena arrogant? You've already convinced yourself - the point continues to be what exactly? This fixation about the Sisters and their fans is quite unsettling.

And a person is not objective because they agree with you. You only show yourself among other things to not be as objective as you imagine.

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 01:17 AM
:rolleyes:
Why can't you ever be objective? Why do you feel that the Williams' sisters or their fans need or want your likes or dislikes or anyone else's for that matter? I think you have a problem with superiority.

I think you have a problem with delusions of grandeur!

You think you're superior to me? Here we go. Here come your bullshit delusions of grandeur. :rolleyes: Go ahead and say the same shit that you've said 1000 times about how everyone's threatened by you because you're a successful black woman, blah, blah, blah, nobody cares. You're a lawyer? Really? Really! Do you think you're that important to everyone?

You think Serena's superior to me? Maybe if I were a professional tennis player that would be true.

I am sometimes the fan of the underdog, so maybe I don't always (or usually) pull for the dominant player. But you probably won't accept that, right? Because the whole "underdog" thing is bullshit, right? If you accept that, then you can't hang on to your claims of racism by every non-Williams fan.

I used to like Venus and Serena when they were new on the scene. (I didn't go out and buy any t-shirts or anything.) Then, I got bored with their dominance (and their boring GS finals). Then I got attacked when I expressed my boredom. That made me dislike them even more.

And if you looked, I even complimented some of Venus' comments in a couple of threads. It ain't all bad, as you would like to believe.

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 01:20 AM
Why are you posting a quote from Serena instead of a quote from her fans?? Post the quotes from the fans.

Because I took issue with Serena's statements!

As for the fans comments, I was paraphrasing. You want me to dig them up? I know what I read....and it was about the Serena/Kirilenko match.

Fact remains, I never said that Serena said that stuff about "match of her career" about Kirilenko (as you implied that I did). It was the fans.

Knizzle
May 29th, 2004, 01:22 AM
Because I took issue with Serena's statements!

As for the fans comments, I was paraphrasing. You want me to dig them up? I know what I read....and it was about the Serena/Kirilenko match.

Fact remains, I never said that Serena said that stuff about "match of her career" about Kirilenko (as you implied that I did). It was the fans.
So what's your whole point of asking someone to explain Serena's comments to you?? :shrug:

pav
May 29th, 2004, 01:24 AM
At the risk of incurring the wrath of the approx. six million three hundred thousand and twenty seven Willy fans. It seems to have been drummed into the Girls from an early age, or just comes naturally, to dismiss a loss or a scare with " Oh, I just had a bad day, You know" with a great reluctance to give any praise to Their Opponent, a natural graciousness seems to come peeping out from Venus at times, and Their Mother certainly has always been fair and gracious,could this possibly spring from(suggesting a surgeon could add a bit of length to Hingis legs) Richard?

Knizzle
May 29th, 2004, 01:28 AM
At the risk of incurring the wrath of the approx. six million three hundred thousand and twenty seven Willy fans. It seems to have been drummed into the Girls from an early age, or just comes naturally, to dismiss a loss or a scare with " Oh, I just had a bad day, You know" with a great reluctance to give any praise to Their Opponent, a natural graciousness seems to come peeping out from Venus at times, and Their Mother certainly has always been fair and gracious,could this possibly spring from(suggesting a surgeon could add a bit of length to Hingis legs) Richard?
Why should she praise her opponent for her own unforced errors?? Keyword being unforced.

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 01:37 AM
Why should she praise her opponent for her own unforced errors?? Keyword being unforced.

Serena had 26 UFEs, Kirilenko had 20 UFEs. Serena had 30 winners, Kirilenko had 15. Take a look at all of the other stats.

All in all, Serena's stats were slightly better than Kirilenko's. It's not the meltdown that you seem to imply. You act like her game was riddled with errors.

Given all of the stats, you still insist on acting like Serena played like shit? (That's what you seem to imply) 26 UFEs is low for Serena, right? Yet you blame the whole match on that statistic? Serena wasn't the only one making mistakes.

Is is that hard for you to give Kirilenko any credit?

Looks like Kirilenko gave Serena a good match, a nice, EVEN match. It wasn't Kirilenko playing GREAT vs Serena playing POORLY.

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 01:40 AM
I think you have a problem with delusions of grandeur!

You think you're superior to me? Here we go. Here come your bullshit delusions of grandeur. :rolleyes: Go ahead and say the same shit that you've said 1000 times about how everyone's threatened by you because you're a successful black woman, blah, blah, blah, nobody cares. You're a lawyer? Really? Really! Do you think you're that important to everyone?

You think Serena's superior to me? Maybe if I were a professional tennis player that would be true.

I am sometimes the fan of the underdog, so maybe I don't always (or usually) pull for the dominant player. But you probably won't accept that, right? Because the whole "underdog" thing is bullshit, right? If you accept that, then you can't hang on to your claims of racism by every non-Williams fan.

I used to like Venus and Serena when they were new on the scene. (I didn't go out and buy any t-shirts or anything.) Then, I got bored with their dominance (and their boring GS finals). Then I got attacked when I expressed my boredom. That made me dislike them even more.

And if you looked, I even complimented some of Venus' comments in a couple of threads. It ain't all bad, as you would like to believe.

You totally misunderstood me and now that I read what I said, I can understand that. What I meant was that you have a problem in thinking that you are superior and above everything you complain about, yet you exhibit it all in grand style. You complain about Williams' fans not being able to be objective. Mind you, Williams' fans are not the only ones on this board guilty of this, but we are the only ones you complain about. Yet, when it comes to the Williams' sisters and their fans, you are the most offensive and subjective person posting on this board. You complain about the Williams' being arrogant, when you have to be the most arrogant person, outside of George Bush, I've ever seen in my life. You also complain about them not being liked. Yet, I haven't seen anyone here jumping on your little bandwagon of misery. So, I think not only do YOU have delusions of grandeur, but you are projecting your own faults and self-hate unto the Williams' and their fans.

Never, never have I ever said that anyone is threatened by me because I'm a successful black woman, or because I'm a lawyer. At least not on this board :p . Please post the post...just one...where I said that on this board. Which brings me to another point. This comment makes me truly believe that Darrin is correct in saying that you are maliksimmsjennings/blueberrypieguy on the Yahoo board. Because only on that board have I ever made a comment that someone was threatened by me, and that was to those racist trolls who continually harrass black people there. Also, I noticed that you immediately started attacking me as soon as I signed on here, just like malik/pieguy on Yahoo. So, if you're not malik, maybe you're his evil twin. :lol: Malik, I think you just outed yourself. Was it intentional or just a Freudian (sp?) slip?

BTW, I never said every Williams' hater was a racist. Again, you put words in my mouth. If you can find the post where I said that, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, you're full of shit and make it up as you go along.

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 01:43 AM
At the risk of incurring the wrath of the approx. six million three hundred thousand and twenty seven Willy fans. It seems to have been drummed into the Girls from an early age, or just comes naturally, to dismiss a loss or a scare with " Oh, I just had a bad day, You know" with a great reluctance to give any praise to Their Opponent, a natural graciousness seems to come peeping out from Venus at times, and Their Mother certainly has always been fair and gracious,could this possibly spring from(suggesting a surgeon could add a bit of length to Hingis legs) Richard?
This crap is not even worth replying to. :rolleyes:

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 01:44 AM
It wasn't Kirilenko playing GREAT vs Serena playing POORLY.
Yes it was.

volta
May 29th, 2004, 01:44 AM
she wasnīt dominating like she does cuz she coundīt put the balls in . her forehand wasnīt that good and everytime she tried to put the balls near the line she missed. itīs really hard for some1 who has the "agressive" type of game not to be able to attack not because of the other player but because of yourself. thatīs what she was trying to say i think.

darrinbaker00
May 29th, 2004, 01:45 AM
Why should she praise her opponent for her own unforced errors?? Keyword being unforced.
Because that's too much like right, that's why. I'd bet everything I own that if you were to study Serena's match statistics over the years, you'd find that her opponents win more points off Serena's unforced errors than they do off their own winners (yesterday's match being an exception). Win or lose, Serena's in control of most of her matches, and her post-match comments reflect that. ;)

Knizzle
May 29th, 2004, 01:48 AM
Serena had 26 UFEs, Kirilenko had 20 UFEs. Serena had 30 winners, Kirilenko had 15. Take a look at all of the other stats.

All in all, Serena's stats were slightly better than Kirilenko's. It's not the meltdown that you seem to imply. You act like her game was riddled with errors.

Given all of the stats, you still insist on acting like Serena played like shit? (That's what you seem to imply) 26 UFEs is low for Serena, right? Yet you blame the whole match on that statistic? Serena wasn't the only one making mistakes.

Is is that hard for you to give Kirilenko any credit?

Looks like Kirilenko gave Serena a good match, a nice, EVEN match. It wasn't Kirilenko playing GREAT vs Serena playing POORLY.
Who said Kirilenko doesn't deserve credit?? Where are you getting this stuff from son?? 26 UFE's is not low for Serena. Cheesestix if you didn't notice tennis is a game of streaks. From the middle of the first set, Serena sprayed balls, especially on the big points. She cleaned it up in the second set, but came out with alot of errors early in the third set. There was a long multiple deuce game somewhere in the third set where Serena made alot of uncharacteristic errors. She may have been able to hit some winners after those, but that doesn't erase all the errors she made. In hindsight there are such things as meaningless winners or errors so you can't always go by the winner/ufe ratio to see exactly what went on in the match.

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 01:50 AM
Because that's too much like right, that's why. I'd bet everything I own that if you were to study Serena's match statistics over the years, you'd find that her opponents win more points off Serena's unforced errors than they do off their own winners (yesterday's match being an exception). Win or lose, Serena's in control of most of her matches, and her post-match comments reflect that. ;)
That is exactly what I was thinking when I watched her match last night. I told my sister, if I didn't already know who won this match, I'd say Serena was beating herself. She made more errors than she had to, but I chalk it up to not being match tough yet. She was spraying balls in the 1st and 3rd set that seemed unusual. I know she sometimes starts to spray balls in rallies, but usually Serena is a good returner and this girl was serving love games because Serena was hitting the returns out on every serve, just about. It was fraustrating for me, and I knew who won. Just think how Serena was feeling. Does anyone think this is all still due to not being match tough yet, or what?

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 01:52 AM
Who said Kirilenko doesn't deserve credit?? Where are you getting this stuff from son?? 26 UFE's is not low for Serena. Cheesestix if you didn't notice tennis is a game of streaks. From the middle of the first set, Serena sprayed balls, especially on the big points. She cleaned it up in the second set, but came out with alot of errors early in the third set. There was a long multiple deuce game somewhere in the third set where Serena made alot of uncharacteristic errors. She may have been able to hit some winners after those, but that doesn't erase all the errors she made. In hindsight there are such things as meaningless winners or errors so you can't always go by the winner/ufe ratio to see exactly what went on in the match.
Wow, :eek: my thoughts exactly. But, what do you think was the cause of this?

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 01:52 AM
You totally misunderstood me and now that I read what I said, I can understand that. What I meant was that you have a problem in thinking that you are superior and above everything you complain about, yet you exhibit it all in grand style. You complain about Williams' fans not being able to be objective. Mind you, Williams' fans are not the only ones on this board guilty of this, but we are the only ones you complain about. Yet, when it comes to the Williams' sisters and their fans, you are the most offensive and subjective person posting on this board. You complain about the Williams' being arrogant, when you have to be the most arrogant person, outside of George Bush, I've ever seen in my life. You also complain about them not being liked. Yet, I haven't seen anyone here jumping on your little bandwagon of misery. So, I think not only do YOU have delusions of grandeur, but you are projecting your own faults and self-hate unto the Williams' and their fans.

Never, never have I ever said that anyone is threatened by me because I'm a successful black woman, or because I'm a lawyer. At least not on this board :p . Please post the post...just one...where I said that on this board. Which brings me to another point. This comment makes me truly believe that Darrin is correct in saying that you are maliksimmsjennings/blueberrypieguy on the Yahoo board. Because only on that board have I ever made a comment that someone was threatened by me, and that was to those racist trolls who continually harrass black people there. Also, I noticed that you immediately started attacking me as soon as I signed on here, just like malik/pieguy on Yahoo. So, if you're not malik, maybe you're his evil twin. :lol: Malik, I think you just outed yourself. Was it intentional or just a Freudian (sp?) slip?

BTW, I never said every Williams' hater was a racist. Again, you put words in my mouth. If you can find the post where I said that, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, you're full of shit and make it up as you go along.

As for your first paragraph: So now you're a psychologist? I'm no worse than you are on this board. I just usually have the opposite viewpoint. So that makes me worse? Are you proud of some of the things you say here?

Second paragraph: Oh, I'm quite sure you've said that someone (probably me) was threatened by you, and you did make the reference that it was because you're a lawyer or a successful black woman, or something to that effect. I don't believe that I attacked you first. I think it's the other way around. I'm pretty sure that YOU responded to one of my posts before I ever got into your business. Furthermore, YOU are the one that proposed a truce, which I accepted. Refresh my memory, WHO broke the truce?????? I'll give you a hint: it wasn't me.

Third paragraph: I'm quite sure you've called me a racist (or implied it).

As for the posts, those were probably from months ago. There's no way in hell that I could ever find them, unless I spent all weekend looking, or unless there's a great search function. Besides, even if/when I confronted you with them, you'd just say "Well, you said XXXXX, so my response was justified."

BTW, I have a DAMN GOOD memory! (especially for minutia....like this board), so I know what I've read. I would NEVER make up shit like that.

Surprisingly, your post to me almost sounded civil. Can't we all just get along?

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 01:53 AM
Yes it was.

How is that? Look at the stats and explain how the EVEN stats lead you to that conclusion.

Black Mamba.
May 29th, 2004, 01:54 AM
WTA tennis players rarely give credit to other players, and when they do most of the times it's that lame half handed compliment. Honesly when the top players lose or come close you hear, "I wasn't at my best" "I guess she played really well" you hear this crap from almost every player.

Kabezya
May 29th, 2004, 01:55 AM
At the risk of incurring the wrath of the approx. six million three hundred thousand and twenty seven Willy fans. It seems to have been drummed into the Girls from an early age, or just comes naturally, to dismiss a loss or a scare with " Oh, I just had a bad day, You know" with a great reluctance to give any praise to Their Opponent, a natural graciousness seems to come peeping out from Venus at times, and Their Mother certainly has always been fair and gracious,could this possibly spring from(suggesting a surgeon could add a bit of length to Hingis legs) Richard?

Considering the official site itself in it's article about the match stated that Serena gave credit to her opponent, it would seem that the risk is usually people taking a perception they want to take when it's regarding any arrogance or lack there of nice words for opponents that is claimed and not actual fact. It seems the phenomenom, the condition of seeing something that isn't there, is what is drummed into some -- and this stated at the risk of incurring the wrath of the approximately six million three hundred thousand and twenty seven non-Will(iams)y fans.

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 01:59 AM
Who said Kirilenko doesn't deserve credit?? Where are you getting this stuff from son?? 26 UFE's is not low for Serena. Cheesestix if you didn't notice tennis is a game of streaks. From the middle of the first set, Serena sprayed balls, especially on the big points. She cleaned it up in the second set, but came out with alot of errors early in the third set. There was a long multiple deuce game somewhere in the third set where Serena made alot of uncharacteristic errors. She may have been able to hit some winners after those, but that doesn't erase all the errors she made. In hindsight there are such things as meaningless winners or errors so you can't always go by the winner/ufe ratio to see exactly what went on in the match.

"son"???

:rolleyes:

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 02:00 AM
As for your first paragraph: So now you're a psychologist? I'm no worse than you are on this board. I just usually have the opposite viewpoint. So that makes me worse? Are you proud of some of the things you say here?

Second paragraph: Oh, I'm quite sure you've said that someone (probably me) was threatened by you, and you did make the reference that it was because you're a lawyer or a successful black woman, or something to that effect. I don't believe that I attacked you first. I think it's the other way around. I'm pretty sure that YOU responded to one of my posts before I ever got into your business. Furthermore, YOU are the one that proposed a truce, which I accepted. Refresh my memory, WHO broke the truce?????? I'll give you a hint: it wasn't me.

Third paragraph: I'm quite sure you've called me a racist (or implied it).

As for the posts, those were probably from months ago. There's no way in hell that I could ever find them, unless I spent all weekend looking, or unless there's a great search function. Besides, even if/when I confronted you with them, you'd just say "Well, you said XXXXX, so my response was justified."

BTW, I have a DAMN GOOD memory! (especially for minutia....like this board), so I know what I've read. I would NEVER make up shit like that.

Surprisingly, your post to me almost sounded civil. Can't we all just get along?
No, not a psychologist, just a realist.

You're quite sure I've said that, but you can't prove it, huh? Which means, you've felt that way because of your own insecurities, or you are malik.

Oh, you're quite sure I've called you a racist or implied it, but again, can't prove it. Hmmmmm more :bs:

To be honest, it's hard to have a truce with you because you spew so much bullshit, I can't resist putting you back in your place. So, I'll admit breaking the truce, but I just can't stand you. So, forgive me but it seems as if we are at war again. :p

Even if you could produce them, you know what I'd say because...let me guess...you're also psychic.

If you want us all to get along, you need to start by respecting the posters on this board, especially the Williams' family and possibly getting some help with the hate you have in heart. Otherwise, it's not going to work.

Knizzle
May 29th, 2004, 02:02 AM
"son"???

:rolleyes:
:lol: All that I wrote and this is the only thing you reply to??

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 02:02 AM
How is that? Look at the stats and explain how the EVEN stats lead you to that conclusion.
Just like someone else said here, the stats don't always illustrate the way the match was played. Did you even see the match?

VS Fan
May 29th, 2004, 02:02 AM
Demond:

Sometimes the reason for "errors" is the aggressive play of one's opponent. Some of these are FORCED errors, but most tournaments do not make the distinction.

30-26 is a GOOD ratio of winners to errors. Serena has won 2-set matches with 59 UFEs. (vs Jennifer- NASDAQ-2002.) Yesterday's was THREE Sets.

This was a good match, not really affected by "poor" play by Serena, but good play by her opponent.

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 02:04 AM
WTA tennis players rarely give credit to other players, and when they do most of the itmes it's that lame half handed compliment. Honesly when the top players lose or come close you hear, "I wasn't at my best" "I guess she played really well" you hear this crap from almost every player.
Yep, like the excuse Justine gave after that Italian girl beat her in the second round. :rolleyes:

But, I didn't see Malik...I mean er uh ummm cheesestix open a thread about that. :p

darrinbaker00
May 29th, 2004, 02:04 AM
As for your first paragraph: So now you're a psychologist? I'm no worse than you are on this board. I just usually have the opposite viewpoint. So that makes me worse? Are you proud of some of the things you say here?

Second paragraph: Oh, I'm quite sure you've said that someone (probably me) was threatened by you, and you did make the reference that it was because you're a lawyer or a successful black woman, or something to that effect. I don't believe that I attacked you first. I think it's the other way around. I'm pretty sure that YOU responded to one of my posts before I ever got into your business. Furthermore, YOU are the one that proposed a truce, which I accepted. Refresh my memory, WHO broke the truce?????? I'll give you a hint: it wasn't me.

Third paragraph: I'm quite sure you've called me a racist (or implied it).

As for the posts, those were probably from months ago. There's no way in hell that I could ever find them, unless I spent all weekend looking, or unless there's a great search function. Besides, even if/when I confronted you with them, you'd just say "Well, you said XXXXX, so my response was justified."

BTW, I have a DAMN GOOD memory! (especially for minutia....like this board), so I know what I've read. I would NEVER make up shit like that.

Surprisingly, your post to me almost sounded civil. Can't we all just get along?
Translation: "Curses! Foiled again!" :mad:

If your memory is as good as you claim, then why are you saying "I'm quite sure" of this, or "I'm pretty sure" of that? If someone called me a racist, I'd remember where, when and how they said it.

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 02:10 AM
Demond:

Sometimes the reason for "errors" is the aggressive play of one's opponent. Some of these are FORCED errors, but most tournaments do not make the distinction.

30-26 is a GOOD ratio of winners to errors. Serena has won 2-set matches with 59 UFEs. (vs Jennifer- NASDAQ-2002.) Yesterday's was THREE Sets.

This was a good match, not really affected by "poor" play by Serena, but good play by her opponent.
Let me preface this by saying that I know what forced errors look like and most of Serena's errors were not forced. This girl was serving no better than any other player Serena has played in her career and certainly no faster or harder, yet Serena still couldn't get a handle on the returns. There were other times, Serena hit the ball into the net, when she had a clean dtl backhand or forehand, those were most assuredly UFE's. Yes, this was a fairly good ratio in winners and errors for Serena. It always is when she is ahead in the differential. But, I've seen her have less errors. However, I'm not taking anything away from the Maria. She played very well, and even though Serena pulled it out, I know Serena can play better than what she did. I also have to say, that it was a good match and there were some great rallies. But, I still stick to my impression that it was more suggestive to me that it was not a great match played by Serena. She did what she had to to win.

VS Fan
May 29th, 2004, 02:27 AM
Demond:

You are right that this was not a "great" match played by Serena. But... It was much better than the one she played vs Justine at RG 2003. ...or Loit at the AO 2003 or Kim Clijsters at AO 2003, or Els Callens at Wimby 2002...should I go on???... She won those matches also (except Justine)....BUT ALL of those were due to poor play and spraying balls that she should have had control of.

I submit that this was NOT the case yesterday. She was not at the top of her game, (fewer ACES than normal), but her opponents play had a lot to do with it when the ralley began. Maria was playing great...Why can't people see this??? Her return was off, but... Just maybe it was due to Maria's serve...Hmmmm.

Serena has this problem often when she plays an opponent for the FIRST time, but rarely has problems afterwards. Let's see what happens the next time they meet!!

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 02:33 AM
Demond:

You are right that this was not a "great" match played by Serena. But... It was much better than the one she played vs Justine at RG 2003. ...or Loit at the AO 2003 or Kim Clijsters at AO 2003, or Els Callens at Wimby 2002...should I go on???... She won those matches also (except Justine)....BUT ALL of those were due to poor play and spraying balls that she should have had control of.

I submit that this was NOT the case yesterday. She was not at the top of her game, (fewer ACES than normal), but her opponents play had a lot to do with it when the ralley began. Maria was playing great...Why can't people see this??? Her return was off, but... Just maybe it was due to Maria's serve...Hmmmm.

Serena has this problem often when she plays an opponent for the FIRST time, but rarely has problems afterwards. Let's see what happens the next time they meet!!
I really think we agree more than disagree. However, I really didn't see that Maria was serving that great. Her average serve was about 95mph, and it really didn't have that much of a kick, neither did she serve into Serena's body. Again, I'm not taking anything away from Maria. She played a great game, as did those other people you mentioned, but Serena was also not at her best.

Oh, :lol: I do not believe this girl will take another set off Serena in the near future, but time will tell.

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 02:38 AM
No, not a psychologist, just a realist.

You're quite sure I've said that, but you can't prove it, huh? Which means, you've felt that way because of your own insecurities, or you are malik.

Oh, you're quite sure I've called you a racist or implied it, but again, can't prove it. Hmmmmm more :bs:

To be honest, it's hard to have a truce with you because you spew so much bullshit, I can't resist putting you back in your place. So, I'll admit breaking the truce, but I just can't stand you. So, forgive me but it seems as if we are at war again. :p

Even if you could produce them, you know what I'd say because...let me guess...you're also psychic.

If you want us all to get along, you need to start by respecting the posters on this board, especially the Williams' family and possibly getting some help with the hate you have in heart. Otherwise, it's not going to work.

Respect is a 2-way street, missy!

You respect me, I'll respect you.

But you can't stand me. I don't feel the same. I find you a little annoying, but you're really fun to toy with.

I don't have any "hate" in my heart. Why waste my time with such a negative emotion? You, on the other hand, seem to have a real hatred....of what, I don't know exactly.

Fingon
May 29th, 2004, 02:42 AM
After Serena's 2nd round match she said:

"I just had a bad day. I couldn’t keep a ball in," Serena said. "It was one of those days. When I practiced I felt a little weird. I was just spraying balls. I made a thousand mistakes."

But if you really look at the stats, it ain't like Kirilenko had a great match either. :rolleyes: Although some would say she had the "match of her career." :rolleyes:

Match Summary

Kirilenko (RUS) Williams (USA)

1st Serve % 55 of 92 = 60 % 50 of 82 = 61 %
Aces 1 3
Double Faults 6 3
Unforced Errors 20 26
Winning % on 1st Serve 32 of 55 = 58 % 32 of 50 = 64 %
Winning % on 2nd Serve 20 of 37 = 54 % 19 of 32 = 59 %
Winners (Including Service) 15 30
Receiving Points Won 31 of 82 = 38 % 40 of 92 = 43 %
Break Point Conversions 4 of 7 = 57 % 6 of 14 = 43 %
Net Approaches 8 of 15 = 53 % 10 of 16 = 63 %
Total Points Won 83 91
Fastest Serve 161 km/h 185 km/h
Average 1st Serve Speed 148 km/h 160 km/h
Average 2nd Serve Speed 129 km/h 132 km/h

Hmmm, exactly WHERE did Kirilenko have better stats than Serena????? I don't see it. Serena had twice as many winners, and only 26 UFEs. That doesn't sound like "a thousand mistakes" or like she's "spraying the ball", does it?

Comparatively, Serena beat Benesova EASILY, but in that match she had 29 UFEs. So who is she kidding?????

Sounds like excuses to me. And people wonder where she gets the "arrogant" label from? :rolleyes:

Maybe Kirilenko is better than people think? But it ain't like either player had a GREAT or BAD match, going by the stats. Looked pretty even.

What am I missing?
that shows that statistics don't tell you how a match went.

It's not about winners/ue ratios, it's about how they play, how they construct points. How many points are won on "forced" errors?, how many unforced errors are really forced? how many winners are just because the other player didn't bother to run?

Tennis is a sport, a game, not a computer generated scenario, statistics are a nice thing but just that, they are not really very useful to judge a match, even watching it on tv isn't comparable to watching it in person.

Said all that, I like Kirilenko but do you seriously think she would challenge Serena like that if Serena was playing well? I didn't think so.

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 02:43 AM
Respect is a 2-way street, missy!

You respect me, I'll respect you.

But you can't stand me. I don't feel the same. I find you a little annoying, but you're really fun to toy with.

I don't have any "hate" in my heart. Why waste my time with such a negative emotion? You, on the other hand, seem to have a real hatred....of what, I don't know exactly.

BTW, there's only a few posters here that I don't really respect or care for, and you happen to be one of them. I give what I get.

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 02:46 AM
Respect is a 2-way street, missy!

You respect me, I'll respect you.

But you can't stand me. I don't feel the same. I find you a little annoying, but you're really fun to toy with.

I don't have any "hate" in my heart. Why waste my time with such a negative emotion? You, on the other hand, seem to have a real hatred....of what, I don't know exactly.
You see, here we go...projection. cheesestix, you can't even spell respect. You start disrespectful threads about the sisters and their fans, you make disrespectful comments and then you disengenuisely wonder why people talk to you the way they do. So, how can you even ask for respect, when you don't give it. It has to start with you. The Williams' fans don't go after you looking for posts you've made about anyone you like to criticize. You do it to us.

No, I can't stand you. It doesn't mean the same thing as hate. It just means a little bit of your gravy runs all over my plate. I too, find it fun to toy with you, but I get extra joy in putting you back in your place. Furthermore, if you don't have any hate in your heart, why do you constantly hate on the Williams' sisters and their fans? You are one of the most negative posters on this board. You have never said anything positive about anybody, let alone the Williams' sisters and their fans. I don't think you've said anything positive or negative about any other player though. You just harp on the sisters.

I know what your hatred stems from though. It's yourself, and that's pathetic.

:wavey:

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 02:48 AM
Translation: "Curses! Foiled again!" :mad:

If your memory is as good as you claim, then why are you saying "I'm quite sure" of this, or "I'm pretty sure" of that? If someone called me a racist, I'd remember where, when and how they said it.

So now you're a translator?

What's the difference between "quite sure" and "sure"? Should I go back and change the wording to "sure"? Would that make you feel better?

Sorry, I didn't bookmark it when DeMond said it. :rolleyes: She doesn't have that kind of importance in my life. If only I'd known that I'd need it for just this occasion! Dammit! :rolleyes:

Foot_Fault
May 29th, 2004, 02:51 AM
No, if they weren't so arrogant, and some of their fans weren't such assholes, I would probably like them more.

But you will like them no matter what they do, and some of their fans refuse to accept anything they do as wrong or inappropriate.
So you let Vee and Ree fans dictate your feelings and not the player?
Very Cool:rolleyes:

Vee and Ree are not Arrogant they are CONFIDENT. and if you have a problem with a player being confident, and analyzing thier game...then that lies with you.

They always credit the opponent, most of you just can't see past your hatred, covering it up with lame ass labels such as; arrogant, cocky, etc.

Grow Up, b/c Justine, Kim, Lindsay...all top players look at their game and what could've been done differently.

Close the door behind you.:wavey:

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 02:55 AM
So now you're a translator?

What's the difference between "quite sure" and "sure"? Should I go back and change the wording to "sure"? Would that make you feel better?

Sorry, I didn't bookmark it when DeMond said it. :rolleyes: She doesn't have that kind of importance in my life. If only I'd known that I'd need it for just this occasion! Dammit! :rolleyes:
Oh really...I must. Otherwise, you wouldn't have such a "DAMN GOOD memory! (especially for minutia....like this board)". Nothing with such unimportance in your life should occupy any part of your memory.

Hmmmmmmmm more :bs:

darrinbaker00
May 29th, 2004, 02:57 AM
So now you're a translator?

What's the difference between "quite sure" and "sure"? Should I go back and change the wording to "sure"? Would that make you feel better?

Sorry, I didn't bookmark it when DeMond said it. :rolleyes: She doesn't have that kind of importance in my life. If only I'd known that I'd need it for just this occasion! Dammit! :rolleyes:
You should be a defensive back in the NFL, because you can backpedal with the best of 'em..... ;)

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 03:07 AM
You should be a defensive back in the NFL, because you can backpedal with the best of 'em..... ;)

Backpedal nothing!

Let me rephrase, I know what she said. But I don't know if I can find it.

I remember what she said, but I don't remember the date! I'm not going to spend all weekend looking for it either.

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 03:08 AM
I know what your hatred stems from though. It's yourself, and that's pathetic.

:wavey:

Do you actually believe the bullshit that you write?

Take a look in the mirror, you are one of the most hateful, like-to-play-the-victim, hypocritical fools I've ever seen.

darrinbaker00
May 29th, 2004, 03:27 AM
Backpedal nothing!

Let me rephrase, I know what she said. But I don't know if I can find it.

I remember what she said, but I don't remember the date! I'm not going to spend all weekend looking for it either.
How characteristically ambiguous of you.....

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 03:41 AM
Do you actually believe the bullshit that you write?

Take a look in the mirror, you are one of the most hateful, like-to-play-the-victim, hypocritical fools I've ever seen.
What's unbelieveable is the bullshit you write.

:lol: I think it's you who's been looking in the mirror too long. If you don't like what you see, get some help.

CC
May 29th, 2004, 03:54 AM
After Serena's 2nd round match she said:

"I just had a bad day. I couldn’t keep a ball in," Serena said. "It was one of those days. When I practiced I felt a little weird. I was just spraying balls. I made a thousand mistakes."

But if you really look at the stats, it ain't like Kirilenko had a great match either. :rolleyes: Although some would say she had the "match of her career." :rolleyes:

Match Summary

Kirilenko (RUS) Williams (USA)

1st Serve % 55 of 92 = 60 % 50 of 82 = 61 %
Aces 1 3
Double Faults 6 3
Unforced Errors 20 26
Winning % on 1st Serve 32 of 55 = 58 % 32 of 50 = 64 %
Winning % on 2nd Serve 20 of 37 = 54 % 19 of 32 = 59 %
Winners (Including Service) 15 30
Receiving Points Won 31 of 82 = 38 % 40 of 92 = 43 %
Break Point Conversions 4 of 7 = 57 % 6 of 14 = 43 %
Net Approaches 8 of 15 = 53 % 10 of 16 = 63 %
Total Points Won 83 91
Fastest Serve 161 km/h 185 km/h
Average 1st Serve Speed 148 km/h 160 km/h
Average 2nd Serve Speed 129 km/h 132 km/h

Hmmm, exactly WHERE did Kirilenko have better stats than Serena????? I don't see it. Serena had twice as many winners, and only 26 UFEs. That doesn't sound like "a thousand mistakes" or like she's "spraying the ball", does it?

Comparatively, Serena beat Benesova EASILY, but in that match she had 29 UFEs. So who is she kidding?????

Sounds like excuses to me. And people wonder where she gets the "arrogant" label from? :rolleyes:

Maybe Kirilenko is better than people think? But it ain't like either player had a GREAT or BAD match, going by the stats. Looked pretty even.

What am I missing?
For heaven's sake, explain the comments to him already. Is it really that hard?

Cheesetix, she said, "I just had a bad day. I couldn’t keep a ball in," Serena said. "It was one of those days. When I practiced I felt a little weird. I was just spraying balls. I made a thousand mistakes."

Here's what it means: She just had a bad day. She couldn't keep a ball in. It appeared to be one of those days, as she said when she practiced she felt a little weird. She was just spraying balls and making a thousand mistakes.

I hope that helps a little.

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 03:56 AM
For heaven's sake, explain the comments to him already. Is it really that hard?

Cheesetix, she said, "I just had a bad day. I couldn’t keep a ball in," Serena said. "It was one of those days. When I practiced I felt a little weird. I was just spraying balls. I made a thousand mistakes."

Here's what it means: She just had a bad day. She couldn't keep a ball in. It appeared to be one of those days, as she said when she practiced she felt a little weird. She was just spraying balls and making a thousand mistakes.

I hope that helps a little.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

darrinbaker00
May 29th, 2004, 04:01 AM
:haha: For heaven's sake, explain the comments to him already. Is it really that hard?

Cheesetix, she said, "I just had a bad day. I couldn’t keep a ball in," Serena said. "It was one of those days. When I practiced I felt a little weird. I was just spraying balls. I made a thousand mistakes."

Here's what it means: She just had a bad day. She couldn't keep a ball in. It appeared to be one of those days, as she said when she practiced she felt a little weird. She was just spraying balls and making a thousand mistakes.

I hope that helps a little.
:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

pav
May 29th, 2004, 04:21 AM
This crap is not even worth replying to. :rolleyes:

You may think My post is crap, but it is basically true, and as to it being not worth replying to, You already have.You may be a Lawyer, but are You the Judge? Are you trying to say that over the years the Williams Sisters have given as a whole, credit to Their opponents,rather than to say Their game was off? I don't think so! The only point in My statement open to debate is whether this is a trait of teaching or did it just occur naturally. if You think this is crap then I obviously don't know the difference between a daggy sheep's arse and a boar's corkscrew! crap indeed!! :rolleyes: indeed!

DeDe4925
May 29th, 2004, 04:25 AM
You may think My post is crap, but it is basically true, and as to it being not worth replying to, You already have.You may be a Lawyer, but are You the Judge? Are you trying to say that over the years the Williams Sisters have given as a whole, credit to Their opponents,rather than to say Their game was off? I don't think so! The only point in My statement open to debate is whether this is a trait of teaching or did it just occur naturally. if You think this is crap then I obviously don't know the difference between a daggy sheep's arse and a boar's corkscrew! crap indeed!! :rolleyes: indeed!
No, I didn't reply to it. I made a comment about it. :smash:

pav
May 29th, 2004, 04:53 AM
Well then ,if a comment it is, it is one that I, as a fine, upstanding member of southern hemispheric Humanity, vigorously dispute!

:banana:

servenrichie
May 29th, 2004, 06:21 AM
No, if they weren't so arrogant, and some of their fans weren't such assholes, I would probably like them more.

But you will like them no matter what they do, and some of their fans refuse to accept anything they do as wrong or inappropriate.This irritating twerp again. Who is looking for you to like them?
Maybe it is the other way round:rolleyes:

servenrichie
May 29th, 2004, 06:26 AM
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This thread is NOT intended to "hate" on Serena. I'm just pointing out an example (a timely one) of why some people don't like Serena or see her as arrogant. People read comments like the one that I posted and have the same reaction that I had to them, especially after looking at the stats. Your comments are absolutely right! Kirilenko could be the next phenom!

I'm just surprised (not really) that more people can't be objective once in a while.

darrinbaker00 did say that he didn't agree with Serena's comment, however, he had to throw in a little disclaimer. Then he attacked me. That kind of reaction just adds to the anti-Williams sentiment. Why can't someone give their opinion without being attacked? Anything negative, and you're usually called racist or something.

Sadly, most can't be as objective as you are.

Thanks again!And look at who brought in the word "racist". Any reply to that and she will feel justified. BTW, you never post, until Serena or Venus have tough matches or lose. Any particular reason why you stalk players you seemly cant stand. I see you are in the mood of sharing your a**ho, I mean opinion, care to enlighten us?

spencercarlos
May 29th, 2004, 06:40 AM
What does change in title have to do with anything? I said in the body of the first post that I thought she was making excuses. Not trying to hide anything.

Tell me how 26 UFEs is high for Serena???? In fact, isn't that low???

Her stats in this match are about the same as her match against Benesova, who she beat very easily. So maybe her opponent just happened to give her a tough time in round 2, rather than her making so many mistakes? And again, her stats were pretty even (in fact, a little better) than Kirilenko's.
Especially when we consider last year`s semifinal where Serena made 70+ unforced errors....

And about the Kirilenko-Serena match, i only saw the third set and i liked the way Maria played, consistent smart tennis, nothing expectacular though, but still at this level if she continues to play like that and improve she could be good. And Serena.... hmm i don`t think she played that good of a match, at least the third set, she fought hard and deserved it in the end, i think it was a good match to have on clay, Maria was returning everything back.

cheo23
May 29th, 2004, 06:50 AM
Whatever People, the Match was close because if U look at the Break Points Maria converted 4 of 7 which SErena had like 6 of 14..plus SEReNa hit a bit more Winners..so it was a Great WarmUp Match and a good wake Up call to Improve her game

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 01:26 PM
How characteristically ambiguous of you.....

Ambiguous?

What's ambiguous about my comments???

I KNOW she called me a RACIST for not liking Venus and Serena (or for not liking her)! Is that specific enough for you???

Step off, you pretentious, whiney, little nerd!

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 01:32 PM
And look at who brought in the word "racist". Any reply to that and she will feel justified. BTW, you never post, until Serena or Venus have tough matches or lose. Any particular reason why you stalk players you seemly cant stand. I see you are in the mood of sharing your a**ho, I mean opinion, care to enlighten us?

No, I'm not the one who brought racism into this. It was others. (e.g. DeMond).

Likewise, any particular reason why you (and DeMond) stalk posters you can't stand???

All4Williams
May 29th, 2004, 01:33 PM
Watching the match, I saw Serena miss soo many forehands she should have put away. Yes Karilenko played a great first set and she is a force to reckon, but Serena could have beaten her more easily. Rust seemed to be showing.

Do you remember her gesticualting on the court after her forehand misses. Do you remember the number of easy passes that just went into the net?

bandabou
May 29th, 2004, 01:41 PM
Cheesetrix....and then what about Justineīs " I was not the player Iīve been over the past 12 months today"-comments?! Why just pick on Serena....make a thread about that one too and then we can discuss if it is arrogant or not. Remember: one player lost and the other won...compare the comments.

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 01:44 PM
Watching the match, I saw Serena miss soo many forehands she should have put away. Yes Karilenko played a great first set and she is a force to reckon, but Serena could have beaten her more easily. Rust seemed to be showing.

Do you remember her gesticualting on the court after her forehand misses. Do you remember the number of easy passes that just went into the net?

Well, whaddya know!

Serena beats Talaja 6-0, 6-4 and has 32 UFEs!

32 UFEs in a 2-setter that she wins easily! 26 UFEs in a tough 3-setter!

She must've really played like shit today! :rolleyes:

Maybe you miss the point that Kirilenko may have caused some of Serena's mistakes in the first match???? Or are you disputing the statistic that she had 26 UFEs?

What about the fact that she had 70+ UFEs last year against JHH??? Oh, but she lost that one, right? But wait, wasn't the loss totally because of "Justine's hand"? So it couldn't have been due to UFEs! :rolleyes:

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 01:46 PM
Cheesetrix....and then what about Justineīs " I was not the player Iīve been over the past 12 months today"-comments?! Why just pick on Serena....make a thread about that one too and then we can discuss if it is arrogant or not. Remember: one player lost and the other won...compare the comments.

1. That one's already been done. Why should we talk about it again? This thread was started because of comments made 2 days ago.

2. Unlike some people, I'm not going to dig up a quote from 4 years ago, just so I can bitch about and start a whole racial debate.

3. There are plenty of Williams fans who pick on Justine, and give Serena and Venus a free pass on everything, so why do you single me out? Maybe because you're a Williams fan? Why do you only worry about equity when it's a Williams that's being talked about?

bandabou
May 29th, 2004, 01:52 PM
That one's already been done. Why should we talk about it again? This thread was started because of comments made 2 days ago.

And: what was the conclution?! Iīd like to know....I missed that discussion.

bandabou
May 29th, 2004, 01:54 PM
Well, whaddya know!

Serena beats Talaja 6-0, 6-4 and has 32 UFEs!

32 UFEs in a 2-setter that she wins easily! 26 UFEs in a tough 3-setter!

She must've really played like shit today! :rolleyes:

Maybe you miss the point that Kirilenko may have caused some of Serena's mistakes in the first match???? Or are you disputing the statistic that she had 26 UFEs?

What about the fact that she had 70+ UFEs last year against JHH??? Oh, but she lost that one, right? But wait, wasn't the loss totally because of "Justine's hand"? So it couldn't have been due to UFEs! :rolleyes:


That wasnīt the question....the question was: Why are you picking just on Serena?! Is she the only one who makes such comments?! I know plenty players who make comments too....why donīt you make threads for them as well?!

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 02:06 PM
That wasnīt the question....the question was: Why are you picking just on Serena?! Is she the only one who makes such comments?! I know plenty players who make comments too....why donīt you make threads for them as well?!

Do YOU EVER call out a WILLIAMS fan who "picks on" other players, but NEVER criticizes Venus or Serena???? Do YOU???

Knizzle
May 29th, 2004, 02:08 PM
Cheesestix, you should take a look at the stats for this Guga/Roger match and see how winner/error ratios can be misleading.

bandabou
May 29th, 2004, 02:09 PM
Do YOU EVER call out a WILLIAMS fan who "picks on" other players, but NEVER criticizes Venus or Serena???? Do YOU???


Iīll talk about me: I just comment about players I care about....if I go call someone arrogant, than I must face that Serena is arrogant too. Now what about you?!

mariok
May 29th, 2004, 02:11 PM
That wasnīt the question....the question was: Why are you picking just on Serena?! Is she the only one who makes such comments?! I know plenty players who make comments too....why donīt you make threads for them as well?!

Everybody's entitled to have their opinion.
But, the thing is Serena is a top player and it's normal people are paying more attention to her comments. Plus, if a worse ranked player loses a match to a better ranked and talks about his/her mistakes, noone is going to blame him/her because the better player is just... better, and everybody knows it was not only about those mistakes. :rolleyes:
However, when Serena talks ONLY about her "bad days" she sounds, well, not like a real top player. At least not a classy one... Nobody blames Venus for comments like this, because, for example, when she won a close match against Sprem she said something like- I had a bad day, but Sprem was playing unbelivable! :worship:
It's NEVER ONLY about your own game, there are two people on the court.

bandabou
May 29th, 2004, 02:17 PM
Everybody's entitled to have their opinion.
But, the thing is Serena is a top player and it's normal people are paying more attention to her comments. Plus, if a worse ranked player loses a match to a better ranked and talks about his/her mistakes, noone is going to blame him/her because the better player is just... better, and everybody knows it was not only about those mistakes. :rolleyes:
However, when Serena talks ONLY about her "bad days" she sounds, well, not like a real top player. At least not a classy one... Nobody blames Venus for comments like this, because, for example, when she won a close match against Sprem she said something like- I had a bad day, but Sprem was playing unbelivable! :worship:
It's NEVER ONLY about your own game, there are two people on the court.

Justine is worse ranked than Serena and Tatiana?! I mean, did you just say that?! She said i wasnīt the player I was the last twelve months when she lost to Garbin...why didnīt anybody pick on that?! Now Serena WINS a match and ya all wanna come with what?! Guess what, she won and thatīs all that matters.

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 02:22 PM
Iīll talk about me: I just comment about players I care about....if I go call someone arrogant, than I must face that Serena is arrogant too. Now what about you?!

That wasn't the question.

Reread the question.

My point is, there are plenty of posters on this board that criticize everyone but Venus and Serena. There are some that just single out JHH.

Do you ever call out one of those people? Do you ever say:

"Why are you picking just on JHH?! Is she the only one who makes such comments?! I know plenty players who make comments too....why donīt you make threads for them as well?!"

I doubt that you do, because most JHH-bashers are pro-Williams, and never question a Williams. If you don't question them, then you do you question me? Is it okay for them but not for me just because they don't talk about your fav?

mariok
May 29th, 2004, 02:25 PM
Now you're just picking on Justine who definitely lost because she didn't play for weeks. Garbin lost in the following round, does anybody think that she won because of any other reason?!
I respect Serena as a player, I like to see her on court, but when she plays a great, 3 set match against a young, up-and-coming player, and she actually wins- she talks only about how bad she played. I can understand people not being satisfied with that comment. And, as I said, I don't remember Venus being so self-centred... Serena should act a bit more like a winner, these comments are for losers. Like Justine. At least now.

Knizzle
May 29th, 2004, 02:26 PM
That wasn't the question.

Reread the question.

My point is, there are plenty of posters on this board that criticize everyone but Venus and Serena. There are some that just single out JHH.

Do you ever call out one of those people? Do you ever say:

"Why are you picking just on JHH?! Is she the only one who makes such comments?! I know plenty players who make comments too....why donīt you make threads for them as well?!"

I doubt that you do, because most JHH-bashers are pro-Williams, and never question a Williams. If you don't question them, then you do you question me? Is it okay for them but not for me just because they don't talk about your fav?
Did you happen to look at those Guga/Federer stats??

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 02:26 PM
Justine is worse ranked than Serena and Tatiana?! I mean, did you just say that?! She said i wasnīt the player I was the last twelve months when she lost to Garbin...why didnīt anybody pick on that?! Now Serena WINS a match and ya all wanna come with what?! Guess what, she won and thatīs all that matters.

Where did he say Justine is worse ranked? He just said that Serena was A top player, not THE top player.

Justine made an excuse for losing. That's somewhat expected, but it's also true. If she were the player that she had been, she wouldn't have lost to a no-name.

Serena made an excuse even though she won. She makes excuses for why she doesn't win by more. You're right, she won and that's all that matters, so why the excuses?

bandabou
May 29th, 2004, 02:27 PM
Cheesestix, you should take a look at the stats for this Guga/Roger match and see how winner/error ratios can be misleading.


ssshh.....

bandabou
May 29th, 2004, 02:30 PM
Where did he say Justine is worse ranked? He just said that Serena was A top player, not THE top player.

Justine made an excuse for losing. That's somewhat expected, but it's also true. If she were the player that she had been, she wouldn't have lost to a no-name.

Serena made an excuse even though she won. She makes excuses for why she doesn't win by more. You're right, she won and that's all that matters, so why the excuses?

Was it an excuse or was it a comment about the way she played?!

Aaah....so, so, so Justine does have the right to make excuses when losing.. isnīt it so that excuses can only be when you LOSE a match?!

mariok
May 29th, 2004, 02:31 PM
Let's just cut the crap.
Serena won, and she deserved it. But, if she only talked about her game being bad, giving no credit to Maria- it was not ok! Or somebody doesn't think so?!

bandabou
May 29th, 2004, 02:33 PM
Now you're just picking on Justine who definitely lost because she didn't play for weeks. Garbin lost in the following round, does anybody think that she won because of any other reason?!
I respect Serena as a player, I like to see her on court, but when she plays a great, 3 set match against a young, up-and-coming player, and she actually wins- she talks only about how bad she played. I can understand people not being satisfied with that comment. And, as I said, I don't remember Venus being so self-centred... Serena should act a bit more like a winner, these comments are for losers. Like Justine. At least now.


:lol: Pathetic....if Serena had lost under the same circumstances as Justine, then still people would have jumped on her...but now with Juju, it is understandable....tjaa....

And was it an excuse or was it a comment?!

mariok
May 29th, 2004, 02:38 PM
:lol: Pathetic....if Serena had lost under the same circumstances as Justine, then still people would have jumped on her...but now with Juju, it is understandable....tjaa....

And was it an excuse or was it a comment?!

So, the bottom line is that you agree with Serena not giving any credit to Kirilenko. Good for you... :worship:
You're actually the one making excuses thanks to JHH's comments. You say- well, Justine does it ,why not Serena?
Well, I say- if Justine did it, it doesn't mean Serena should. And neither should Justine.
This is all just going in circles. :rolleyes:
Bye

Knizzle
May 29th, 2004, 02:38 PM
bandabou, a wise woman told me that cheesestix already has his mind made up so there is no reason to argue with him. I think we should just leave it and him alone.

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 02:40 PM
Cheesestix, you should take a look at the stats for this Guga/Roger match and see how winner/error ratios can be misleading.

You're absolutely right. Stats can be misleading. This match is a perfect example of that. Federer's stats were pretty even with Guga (if not better), yet he got waxed in straight sets.

There are exceptions to the rule, like the aforementioned match. You can look at the final score and the stats and tell that this is an anomaly.

However, when you look at the Serena/Kirilenko match, the final score is pretty damn even, and the stats are pretty damn even. So why would you doubt the stats? In this case, it's not the exception. The match was even, and the stats reinforce that.

The Guga/Roger match really proves nothing in regards to Serena/Kirilenko.

Tell me this, if Guga came out after the match and said that he played like shit, what would your reaction be?

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 02:43 PM
bandabou, a wise woman told me that cheesestix already has his mind made up so there is no reason to argue with him. I think we should just leave it and him alone.

And YOU don't already have YOUR mind made up? :rolleyes:

bandabou
May 29th, 2004, 02:43 PM
You're absolutely right. Stats can be misleading. This match is a perfect example of that. Federer's stats were pretty even with Guga (if not better), yet he got waxed in straight sets.

There are exceptions to the rule, like the aforementioned match. You can look at the final score and the stats and tell that this is an anomaly.

However, when you look at the Serena/Kirilenko match, the final score is pretty damn even, and the stats are pretty damn even. So why would you doubt the stats? In this case, it's not the exception. The match was even, and the stats reinforce that.

The Guga/Roger match really proves nothing in regards to Serena/Kirilenko.

Tell me this, if Guga came out after the match and said that he played like shit, what would your reaction be?

what would yours be?!

bandabou
May 29th, 2004, 02:45 PM
So, the bottom line is that you agree with Serena not giving any credit to Kirilenko. Good for you... :worship:
You're actually the one making excuses thanks to JHH's comments. You say- well, Justine does it ,why not Serena?
Well, I say- if Justine did it, it doesn't mean Serena should. And neither should Justine.
This is all just going in circles. :rolleyes:
Bye


:haha: :rolls: It pained you to say that Justine was wrong, huh?!

mariok
May 29th, 2004, 02:49 PM
:haha: :rolls: It pained you to say that Justine was wrong, huh?!
You're so funny... :eek:
The thing is, if I had to choose, I would put Serena before Justine. I think Justine got lucky because Serena got injured last year. But, it doesn't matter. I guess you're pretty obsessed with Serena, and you're being the one not able to accept that sometimes she's just not fair to other players.
Bye. Again. :lol:

bandabou
May 29th, 2004, 02:58 PM
You're so funny... :eek:
The thing is, if I had to choose, I would put Serena before Justine. I think Justine got lucky because Serena got injured last year. But, it doesn't matter. I guess you're pretty obsessed with Serena, and you're being the one not able to accept that sometimes she's just not fair to other players.
Bye. Again. :lol:

You think the playerīs gonna buy anything with a "oh, she played well"-comment after they just lost?! winning is all that matters....I donīt need no shoulder-clap after I lost a match...

But if you think that Serena not saying that, makes her a bad person.......tjaa. Me thinks that a " I wasnīt the player Iīve been the last 12 months"-comment after I beat a player, is worse....

Knizzle
May 29th, 2004, 03:00 PM
And YOU don't already have YOUR mind made up? :rolleyes:
I'm not asking the question though, you are.

azza
May 29th, 2004, 03:41 PM
she was saying this when she beat dally 6-1 6-3 omg this stupid Tard cant handle that people can ACTUALLY hit WINNERS against her and cant handle doing UE :haha: what a fucken Tard :haha:

bandabou
May 29th, 2004, 04:10 PM
she was saying this when she beat dally 6-1 6-3 omg this stupid Tard cant handle that people can ACTUALLY hit WINNERS against her and cant handle doing UE :haha: what a fucken Tard :haha:



:confused:

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 04:39 PM
I'm not asking the question though, you are.

With that, you just admitted that you do have your mind already made up.

The point is, who are you to speak of anyone as "having their mind made up" as if you yourself don't already have your mind made up? Pot, meet kettle! I guess, the difference is that you're always right? :rolleyes:

So you already had your mind made up. You're going to come in here and pretend to discuss something. Then, when I don't accept your viewpoint, you attempt to slam me by saying that I already had my mind made up, when you know damn well that you already had your mind made up???? Who do you think you're fooling?

I honestly had preconceptions about Serena's comments, so I asked people to tell me what I'm missing. You can't do any better than your Guga/Federer match? You saw my response on that, yet I see that you didn't touch it. I guess you just "missed" that post, huh?

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 04:40 PM
:confused:

He/she is saying that Serena made the same types of excuses against Daly.

Act confused, rather than acknowledge it.

bandabou
May 29th, 2004, 04:49 PM
Yeah, yeah...cheese. But whatīs your point?! so she said those....and so what?! You wanna pick on her comments after she WON a match??!!! As I said....when a player WINS a match, that is that....thatīs all that matters. All that pretty talk about: yeah she played well despite the loss and blah blah....you donīt buy anything with that.

Excuses are only when you lose a match...

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 04:53 PM
Yeah, yeah...cheese. But whatīs your point?! so she said those....and so what?! You wanna pick on her comments after she WON a match??!!! As I said....when a player WINS a match, that is that....thatīs all that matters. All that pretty talk about: yeah she played well despite the loss and blah blah....you donīt buy anything with that.

Excuses are only when you lose a match...

I'm telling you the point, and you still miss it! :rolleyes:

Serena sometimes makes excuses for why she didn't dominate, as in the case of the comments after her match with Kirilenko. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Call it what you want. If you don't like "excuses", how about "poor-sportsmanship"? Do you like that one better? There is such a thing as being a gracious winner. However, I doubt you'd know anything about that.

servenrichie
May 29th, 2004, 04:59 PM
God, this poster Cheese or what it calls itself, is not just like a bulldog, it is one. Creep away and leave us to enjoy tennis. It is very sunny outside. Nice weather. Why dont you get some some fresh air, you are starting to foam at the mouth:lol:

thedarkone
May 29th, 2004, 05:01 PM
Is it just me or do most tennis players make excuses? Sometimes I think tennis players complain more than other athletes.

bandabou
May 29th, 2004, 05:06 PM
I'm telling you the point, and you still miss it! :rolleyes:

Serena sometimes makes excuses for why she didn't dominate, as in the case of the comments after her match with Kirilenko. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Call it what you want. If you don't like "excuses", how about "poor-sportsmanship"? Do you like that one better? There is such a thing as being a gracious winner. However, I doubt you'd know anything about that.


poor sportsmanship?! :lol: Now, now.....donīt know about that. Let me tell you something, anybody whoīs Justine as their favourite canīt come talk about "sportsmanship" with me here....donīt know who your favourite is, but somehow I got a hunch itīs Juju...

Back to topic. It couldnīt be sportsmanship because her comments donīt have ANY bearing on the outcome of the match....during the actual match, she completely played by the rules...so how can it be poor sportsmanship?!

I know youīre dissapointed that Serena only "struggled" with Maria and didnīt actually lose....tough luck. Now you wanted Serena to give Maria a clap on the shoulders?! Maybe next time, o.k.?!

If you actually read than you could actually read that to me the spraying balls comment was refering to her practice...

cheesestix
May 29th, 2004, 06:02 PM
Back to topic. It couldnīt be sportsmanship because her comments donīt have ANY bearing on the outcome of the match....during the actual match, she completely played by the rules...so how can it be poor sportsmanship?!

I'm glad that you said that. Because you just proved that you are absolutely clueless!

Look up the definition of sportsmanship:

sports·man·ship ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spôrtsmn-shp, sprts-)
n.

1. The fact or practice of participating in sports or a sport.

2. Conduct and attitude considered as befitting participants in sports, especially fair play, courtesy, striving spirit, and grace in losing.

#2 sounds familiar, doesn't it. (except they leave out "grace in winning")

Anyway, it has NOTHING to do with whether or not one's actions had any bearing on the match! If Serena refuses to shake Kirilenko's hand at the net, it has no bearing on the outcome of the match, does it? No. But is it considered poor sportsmanship? Yes.

bandabou
May 29th, 2004, 06:38 PM
I'm glad that you said that. Because you just proved that you are absolutely clueless!

Look up the definition of sportsmanship:

sports·man·ship ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spôrtsmn-shp, sprts-)
n.

1. The fact or practice of participating in sports or a sport.

2. Conduct and attitude considered as befitting participants in sports, especially fair play, courtesy, striving spirit, and grace in losing.

#2 sounds familiar, doesn't it. (except they leave out "grace in winning")

Anyway, it has NOTHING to do with whether or not one's actions had any bearing on the match! If Serena refuses to shake Kirilenko's hand at the net, it has no bearing on the outcome of the match, does it? No. But is it considered poor sportsmanship? Yes.


they leave grace in winning out and you put it back it in?! Man, youīre really desperate. Serena did shake Mariaīs hand, so what you wanna prove with that?!

Iīd rather have someone play by the rules than playing against them and then shaking my hands and being a gracious winner after the match.


But if you wanna harp on those comments...be my guest. As someone else said, the sets Serena struggled the most were the sets she had the most errors....when she cleaned her act, it was good-night.. stats CAN be deceiving, but you donīt wanna see that fact. Todayīs match is a good example...when Serena started dfīlting and making errors, suddenly she nearly found herself 4-5 down after being 2-0 up in the second....

jack duckworth
May 29th, 2004, 06:41 PM
shes so bigheaded:)

bandabou
May 30th, 2004, 12:22 PM
Plus cheesetrix....you wanna say that Justineīs loss was related to the fact that she was unprepared, but Serenaīs struggle against Maria K was not due to her missing balls?!

Please....Maria could be very good some day, but no way would she have taken Serena to three sets if Serena was playing her best. We all know it, so stop the kidding...