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Eurotennisfan
May 27th, 2004, 08:11 PM
which of these players would graf have the most trouble with at her prime?
Since Graf did have problem with ASV (and Amada Coatzer) I will say that Kim would be a player that would have given her the most problems, perhaps Justine.

DA FOREHAND
May 27th, 2004, 08:45 PM
justine...LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

volta
May 27th, 2004, 08:46 PM
all LOL.

DA FOREHAND
May 27th, 2004, 08:47 PM
I wish to change my vote to Venus

Spunky83
May 27th, 2004, 09:01 PM
Wow...thanks to bring Myskina in! (lol)

rjd1111
May 27th, 2004, 10:30 PM
which of these players would graf have the most trouble with at her prime?
Since Graf did have problem with ASV (and Amada Coatzer) I will say that Kim would be a player that would have given her the most problems, perhaps Justine.


You need to fix it for 2 choices. She could not beat either Serena or Venus

jimbo mack
May 27th, 2004, 10:31 PM
She could not beat either Serena or Venus

err, check out the facts, she did :)

DA FOREHAND
May 27th, 2004, 10:34 PM
You need to fix it for 2 choices. She could not beat either Serena or Venus
Check out the h2h's baby...Steffi -v- ASV is something like 27-11
Amanda annoyed Steffi post prime.

jan.
May 28th, 2004, 03:11 AM
Well i know Amanda Coetzer and Sabatini has upset her in her prime, but i guess all of the above.

davenport_1
May 28th, 2004, 03:39 AM
Steffi seemes to have trouble with the players who brought a lot of balls back into the court so I voted Kim

RoanHJ
May 28th, 2004, 03:52 AM
Steffi seemes to have trouble with the players who brought a lot of balls back into the court so I voted Kim


That's why I went with Kim too. I think Steffi could have handled the power of women's tennis today and she always had great foot speed so I think she would have done reasonably well against the power hitters. But those human backboards would still drive her nuts.

Volcana
May 28th, 2004, 04:04 AM
Well, since Steffi herself said, after the 1999 Wimbledon QF, that when Venus' serve was working playing her was 'very difficult', I'd go with Venus. At least we know Steffi HAD trouble with her. In fact, Venus had beatenher twice that year before Wimby.

Of course, this was neither Venus' prime nor Steffi's.

Stefwhit
May 28th, 2004, 04:07 AM
really good question to ponder...I think Steffi and Serena would have been tit for tat and I think Steffi would have ate everyone else on that list for lunch. I do think that Kim has the best shot of giving her the most lop-sided rare loss, but more often than not, I think Steffi would be the victor 8 out of 10 times against her.

Did Steffi ever play Mauresmo? For some reason I think Mauresmo would have been a challenge, I still give Steffi the edge tho..

Volcana
May 28th, 2004, 04:08 AM
err, check out the facts, she did They played four times in 1999 and split. This was past Steffi's prime and before Venus'.

1996 Manhattan Beach Hard (O) 16 GRAF...... 6-4 6-4

1999 Sydney......... Hard (O) QF GRAF...... 4-6 6-2 6-4
1999 Hanover........ Carp (I) SF V WILLIAMS 3-6 6-3 3-6
1999 Key Biscayne... Hard (O) SF V WILLIAMS 2-6 4-6
1999 Wimbledon...... Gras (O) QF GRAF...... 6-2 3-6 6-4

Volcana
May 28th, 2004, 04:12 AM
Steffi and Serena split 1-1


1999 Sydney...... Hard (O) 16 Steffi GRAF.... 6-2 3-6 7-5
1999 Indian Wells Hard (O) FR Serena WILLIAMS 3-6 6-3 5-7

Stefwhit
May 28th, 2004, 04:27 AM
Steffi and Serena split 1-1


1999 Sydney...... Hard (O) 16 Steffi GRAF.... 6-2 3-6 7-5
1999 Indian Wells Hard (O) FR Serena WILLIAMS 3-6 6-3 5-7

Yep and I got both matches on tape, interesting thing is that between the two matches they played they were almost identical scorelines in both cases it coming down to 7-5 in the third...

(quick math...) 29 games for Serena and 31 games for Steffi...talk about close!! Since one player was on her way out (passed her prime) and the other player was on her way up (not yet in her prime) I think it's a fair indicator of how things would have possible played out between the two greats had they both played each other in their prime. Another interesting note about my two favorite players... the year that Steffi won her last slam just so happened to be the year that Serena won her first- evenly matched.

Jakeev
May 28th, 2004, 08:56 AM
Look I have a lot of respect for Steffi and her contribution to the game.

But if she struggled against a rising Serena before she retired, does even the smartest Graf fan think she would have done any better when Serena began to dominate the game three-four years later?

I just don't think so.

Kuti Kis&Monica
May 28th, 2004, 09:08 AM
Look I have a lot of respect for Steffi and her contribution to the game.

But if she struggled against a rising Serena before she retired, does even the smartest Graf fan think she would have done any better when Serena began to dominate the game three-four years later?

I just don't think so.

The rising Serena already played like if she were a top 5 during this matches ;)

Stefwhit
May 28th, 2004, 09:18 AM
Look I have a lot of respect for Steffi and her contribution to the game.

But if she struggled against a rising Serena before she retired, does even the smartest Graf fan think she would have done any better when Serena began to dominate the game three-four years later?

I just don't think so.
Interesting thing about your post is that you can look at it two ways. The other way of intepreting that is if Serena struggled against a 30 year old player who was way past her prime does even the smartest Serena fan think she would have done any better when Graf was at her prime?

You'd be hard pressed to find someone who loves Serena more than I do I was just pointing out a whole in your conclusion.

I don't think Steffi would've dominated Serena, but I also don't think Serena would've dominated Graf... Like I said earlier I think they would of had one hell of a rivalry with a very close H2H.

sartrista7
May 28th, 2004, 09:23 AM
Interesting thing about your post is that you can look at it two ways. The other way of intepreting that is if Serena struggled against a 30 year old player who was way past her prime does even the smartest Serena fan think she would have done any better when Graf was at her prime?

You'd be hard pressed to find someone who loves Serena more than I do I was just pointing out a whole in your conclusion.

I don't think Steffi would've dominated Serena, but I also don't think Serena would've dominated Graf... Like I said earlier I think they would of had one hell of a rivalry with a very close H2H.

Indeed. Also... both matches were played in '99. They both won a Slam that year, so I don't think that either of them were really too far off their peak level. It would've been a fascinating rivalry.

7~LV3
May 28th, 2004, 09:44 AM
Kim Clijsters is a good choice, but she does choke sometimes against top players...

I guess Serena would have dominated their rivalry, like against ms Venus, as she has against other players. their h2h would probably be 7-3 in Serenas favour and probably 6-4 against ms Venus. 8-3 against Clijsters in Steffis favour. 6-4 against Justine in ms Steffis favour.

bandabou
May 28th, 2004, 11:22 AM
My pick is Serena or Venus....Serena mostly. The reason being because Serena could match Steffi in pretty much every department: serve, forehand, movement, etc.. Serena to me at her best would be the must difficult opponent for Steffi. Because at her best its serve and bang with Serena...and as we have seen, shes really been the most dominating no.1 player since Steffi.

irma
May 28th, 2004, 11:40 AM
Serena on american hardcourt in 99 beat the number 1 player of the world three times without losing set so stop making her some inferior rising player. She was the undoubtful queen on it that year! (losing one match while still having a complex. he venus fans use that as an excuse too :lol: )

and about the backboard thing. that's not enough. you need to be mentally tough too and you need to make no ue's. Kim's forehand is not that steady! Otherwise Steffi was a backboard too!
ASV with Kim's mental toughness had not won french 89 and US open 94 imho! There is the difference!

bandabou
May 28th, 2004, 11:49 AM
Serena on american hardcourt in 99 beat the number 1 player of the world three times without losing set so stop making her some inferior rising player. She was the undoubtful queen on it that year! (losing one match while still having a complex. he venus fans use that as an excuse too :lol: )

and about the backboard thing. that's not enough. you need to be mentally tough too and you need to make no ue's. Kim's forehand is not that steady! Otherwise Steffi was a backboard too!
ASV with Kim's mental toughness had not won french 89 and US open 94 imho! There is the difference!

uhum, uhum...man, those were the days. Serena was SCARY good on hardcourts even back then..just a sign of things to come.

And yep...it was more mental strength than backboard that was needed to beat Steffi imo.