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View Full Version : (4)V. Williams Def. Kostanic 6-3, 6-3


lizchris
May 27th, 2004, 02:53 PM
I'm happe that Venus won, but I am not happy with her performance. She again was broken on her opening service game and was fortunate to get back on track when she was down 0-3. She is going have to play MUCH better when she meets Mary Pierce on Saturday or she will have another 3rd round exit at the Grand Slam becuase Mary has been playing great.

Foot_Fault
May 27th, 2004, 02:54 PM
U guys Racing? had it all typed out until match point?

LOL! Good Job VENUS

lizchris
May 27th, 2004, 02:55 PM
U guys Racing? had it all typed out until match point?

LOL! Good Job VENUS
Actually, I did when Venus had match point at 40-30, but then the game went longer so I had to wait.:)

GoDominique
May 27th, 2004, 02:55 PM
tennisIlove09 def. lizchris :)

Foot_Fault
May 27th, 2004, 02:55 PM
Actually, I did when Venus had match point at 40-30, but then the game went longer so I had to wait.:)
GOod Strategy, you actually won the Race. They will merge the threads here soon.

tennisIlove09
May 27th, 2004, 02:55 PM
tennisIlove09 def. lizchris :)
:worship: :o

croat123
May 27th, 2004, 02:56 PM
jelena :sad: venus didn't play near her best, jelena was sick or injured (she called the trainer twice, but rg doesn't release information about injuries until players sign waiver forms)

SJW
May 27th, 2004, 02:57 PM
gosh, you guys get that much excitement out of posting a thread? ;)

glad Venus won, she needs to start holding her serve, Mary's returns are out of this world.

sets up the match of the 3rd round :yeah: Vamos V :bounce:

DelMonte
May 27th, 2004, 02:57 PM
ok, i think i need to go lie down because i am exhausted. for the entire match i was screaming "c'mon venus, fight, let's go etc" and i feel drained now. i was sooo nervous. venus was broken way too many times. nice challenge jelena.

on to the next round and more heart attacks. yay! :)

volta
May 27th, 2004, 02:57 PM
who can she get on 1/4 finals?

lizchris
May 27th, 2004, 02:57 PM
GOod Strategy, you actually won the Race. They will merge the threads here soon.
Good idea.

What do you think Venus' chances against Mary are?

GoDominique
May 27th, 2004, 02:58 PM
Actually, I did when Venus had match point at 40-30, but then the game went longer so I had to wait.:)
One day you will jinx her with that, and you will regret it. :)

LindsayRocks89
May 27th, 2004, 02:59 PM
well i got to see the whole match, she played well at times, she was moving fairly well, but what i am concerned about is that she isn't getting that many serves in, and also she had like 21 forehand errors, but those are all things she can work on, so i think she'll be fine

tennisIlove09
May 27th, 2004, 03:00 PM
gosh, you guys get that much excitement out of posting a thread? ;)

glad Venus won, she needs to start holding her serve, Mary's returns are out of this world.

sets up the match of the 3rd round :yeah: Vamos V :bounce:
Her serve was that bad actually. She actually got hosed on a call early in the second that would have given her a 6-3 6-2 victory.

croat123
May 27th, 2004, 03:01 PM
Her serve was that bad actually. She actually got hosed on a call early in the second that would have given her a 6-3 6-2 victory.
jelena got hooked on a call at 3-3 that would have given her that game

so they were 1-1 on bad calls

Sportfan
May 27th, 2004, 03:01 PM
Glad Venus won but she needs to pick it up a notch or two otherwise she won't make it past the fourth round. There were some good moments but unfortunately they weren't sustained. I wish her the best against Mary.

SJW
May 27th, 2004, 03:01 PM
Her serve was that bad actually. She actually got hosed on a call early in the second that would have given her a 6-3 6-2 victory.
Kostanic had 8 break points and only took 3, if you give Mary 8 break points she will make you suffer.

Tompier
May 27th, 2004, 03:02 PM
This should be the great match aaaaww like the good old times :) and I am talking that as a tennis fan :)
As Mary's fan I have to say ( I've said this 1000 000 times but what the hell) her shots are great but her movement still worries me if She was faster she would win :)

mariok
May 27th, 2004, 03:02 PM
Jelena is not an easy oponent. She's mixing her game a lot and Venus obviously has some problems with that. Mary is better than Jelena, of course, but her game is a bit less about mixing and a lot more about hitting. I think Vee will handle her even easier. If she improves her game just a bit.

Knizzle
May 27th, 2004, 03:03 PM
Kostanic had 8 break points and only took 3, if you give Mary 8 break points she will make you suffer.
This is Venus SJW. She can fight off break points against anyone. Mary will be the one who will struggle to hold serve.

Knizzle
May 27th, 2004, 03:04 PM
Jelena is not an easy oponent. She's mixing her game a lot and Venus obviously as some problems with that. Mary is better than Jelena, of course, but her game is a bit less about mixing and a lot more about hitting. I think Vee will handle her even easier. If she improves her game just a bit.
I agree, Vee will like to play Pierce rather than Kostanic. Pierce doesn't mix it up as much.

lizchris
May 27th, 2004, 03:04 PM
well i got to see the whole match, she played well at times, she was moving fairly well, but what i am concerned about is that she isn't getting that many serves in, and also she had like 21 forehand errors, but those are all things she can work on, so i think she'll be fine
Another problem is that she had a horrible winning % on her second serve in the first few games of the match and I don' think she will be able to get away with that with Mary.

croat123
May 27th, 2004, 03:05 PM
jelena broke in each game she had a bp. she needed 5 break points in one game

Paneru
May 27th, 2004, 03:05 PM
ok, i think i need to go lie down because i am exhausted. for the entire match i was screaming "c'mon venus, fight, let's go etc" and i feel drained now. i was sooo nervous. venus was broken way too many times. nice challenge jelena.

on to the next round and more heart attacks. yay! :)

Why do you get yourself all worked-up? :lol:

Not her day, but good enough to get through.
She said serving would be the key in this tournament
for her and she knows she has to improve it to go far,
which I fully expect her to.

No worries! :cool:
Besides, nice to have a scare
every now and then! Let's you
know your alive! ;)

Foot_Fault
May 27th, 2004, 03:06 PM
Good idea.

What do you think Venus' chances against Mary are?
Well I see people are already PANICING in here about Mary. When Venus loses serve, it's RARELY about the actual SERVING, it's stupid UE's off the ground.

I just think she was playing a Lefty, that wasn't giving her much rhythm. Kostanic, like Sprem, was just going for her shots....wanting NOT to get into rallies. Thus creating spotty tennis (from both) that seem very staccato'ed.

Venus understands TENNIS. and Knows she will have to step it up against Mary. the difference will be, Mary is a Righty, loves pace and rhythm as well. What will win the match for Venus is moving the ball around as much as possible, b/c Mary's footspeed isn't what it once was.

Venus will have to be focused, and Very Motivated, yet Calm. I feel she will find a way to win this Match.

SJW
May 27th, 2004, 03:07 PM
This is Venus SJW. She can fight off break points against anyone. Mary will be the one who will struggle to hold serve.
yea this is Venus....but Mary loves her short balls. you know how Mary plays, right?...if Venus gets her first serve IN, that will help, if she serves like she did today, it's gonna be a battle.

Eurosport better show this match i swear.

Chance
May 27th, 2004, 03:07 PM
Good job Vee... sounds like round 3 is going to be tough.

Infiniti2001
May 27th, 2004, 03:08 PM
Match Summary

Kostanic (CRO) Williams (USA)

1st Serve % 43 of 67 = 64 % 32 of 53 = 60 %

Aces 0 2

Double Faults 6 3

Unforced Errors 25 24

Winning % on 1st Serve 22 of 43 = 51 % 23 of 32 = 72 %

Winning % on 2nd Serve 8 of 24 = 33 % 9 of 21 = 43 %

Winners (Including Service) 9 14

Receiving Points Won 21 of 53 = 40 % 37 of 67 = 55 %

Break Point Conversions 3 of 7 = 43 % 6 of 10 = 60 %

Net Approaches 4 of 4 = 100 % 12 of 19 = 63 %

Total Points Won 51 69

Fastest Serve 158 km/h 176 km/h

Average 1st Serve Speed 144 km/h 160 km/h

Average 2nd Serve Speed 129 km/h 134 km/h


Venus did the best she could today. Her first serve looks good, second questionable, but it's not like anyone else is setting the tournament on fire really. :rolleyes:

Go Venus : :bounce: :bounce:

Couver
May 27th, 2004, 03:08 PM
Well her stats actually have improved from her 1st round match. I believe her 2nd serve % was 18 in her 1st match :eek: It was %39 today. And her first serve was up as well.

I was surprised though to see her winner error ratio which was like 16-22:eek: I would like to see her improve there.

Still a win is a win and she lives to fight another day. In tennis that is really all you can ask for.

Paneru
May 27th, 2004, 03:09 PM
congrats Vee but i have to admit, I'm a bit concerned about her chances versus Mary...

Really?

I think Mary plays the type of game
Venus loves to play against.

If Venus can have a better service
day, I think she'll have little trouble.

I guess I see, the serving is
the cause for concern.
I think she'll step it up. :)

Infiniti2001
May 27th, 2004, 03:10 PM
I've always been a fan of Meryl (Mary), but she is way over- rated these days. Personally I think Kostanic is more dangerous than she is. Venus is no Gala Leon Garcia , she is more consistent and has more weapons- no offense to her fans :p

Foot_Fault
May 27th, 2004, 03:11 PM
Glad Venus won but she needs to pick it up a notch or two otherwise she won't make it past the fourth round. There were some good moments but unfortunately they weren't sustained. I wish her the best against Mary.
It's really funny to me when people think Venus played awful, but don't credit the type of game that was thrown at Venus.

Venus is at her best when she's in rhythm. Jelena mixes up the pace, she's a left, and she goes for her shots more.

Venus was in NO rhythm today, but good enough to get through....
She will adjust to the BALL, not the opponent.

Knizzle
May 27th, 2004, 03:11 PM
yea this is Venus....but Mary loves her short balls. you know how Mary plays, right?...if Venus gets her first serve IN, that will help, if she serves like she did today, it's gonna be a battle.

Eurosport better show this match i swear.
Of course I know how Mary plays. That will play into Venus' hands. She likes the pace. Mary doesn't move move well. Mary also has to serve to Venus. I'd put my money on Venus breaking her serve alot more than she will break Venus'.

Paneru
May 27th, 2004, 03:11 PM
at the end of the match when that french guy asks questions on court to the winner he speaks in english, but at the end he said, "can i ask u a few questions in french" and she said yes, and answered them in fluent french!

:cool:

bandabou
May 27th, 2004, 03:14 PM
Well, she won....and thats great. The rest will follow..

Paneru
May 27th, 2004, 03:14 PM
It's really funny to me when people think Venus played awful, but don't credit the type of game that was thrown at Venus.

Venus is at her best when she's in rhythm. Jelena mixes up the pace, she's a left, and she goes for her shots more.

Venus was in NO rhythm today, but good enough to get through....
She will adjust to the BALL, not the opponent.

Very well said! :)

DelMonte
May 27th, 2004, 03:14 PM
Why do you get yourself all worked-up? :lol:

Not her day, but good enough to get through.
She said serving would be the key in this tournament
for her and she knows she has to improve it to go far,
which I fully expect her to.

No worries! :cool:
Besides, nice to have a scare
every now and then! Let's you
know your alive! ;)

I am back from my 5 min lie-down. I don't know why I get so worked up....Ok, maybe I do:

1) I just want Venus to do well in this tournament so badly.
2) I am a nut when it comes to sports and tennis in particular. I think it runs in the family. When my dad and I watch sports together, we make so much noise, we'll make someone deaf one day.

I always tell my friends that I am going to stop watching sports when I am about 50 because my heart won't be able to take it! ;)

DelMonte

Ps And I really should know all about staying calm under pressure and controlling nerves etc. I used to complete in athletics when I was younger. Go figure!

pigam
May 27th, 2004, 03:15 PM
allez Vnus!
I have full confidence in her next match.
I think Mary (still) isn't fit enough to keep up with Venus.
Besides, she probably realises she has to raise her level in the next round
and she'll probably do.

Paneru
May 27th, 2004, 03:17 PM
well, I agree that since mary has come back, she really hasn't beaten any top players but i am not convinced that Venus' ankle is 100% and against Mary, she will have to have great movement..and of course the serve is a concern..i'm just being very apprehensive as i really want her to take this title is all, just my nerves talking;)

I understand! :)

She does have her ankle tapped and if she's feeling
pain I think it's minimal. Nothing that she can't play through.

Her movement has seemed fine the last two matches.
She just needs to clean up those errors and get
her serve under control.

"Topaz"
May 27th, 2004, 03:18 PM
I agree, Vee will like to play Pierce rather than Kostanic. Pierce doesn't mix it up as much.This is it. Also, Venus's game usually improves round by round in a GS. She doesn't trash early opponents, and goes up a notch one step at the time till the quarters. Beyond that, if she makes it, she's in full flight.

Chance
May 27th, 2004, 03:20 PM
bajangurl, I know EXACTLY how you feel :)

that's cool to read that V spoke in French.

Paneru
May 27th, 2004, 03:20 PM
I am back from my 5 min lie-down. I don't know why I get so worked up....Ok, maybe I do:

1) I just want Venus to do well in this tournament so badly.
2) I am a nut when it comes to sports and tennis in particular. I think it runs in the family. When my dad and I watch sports together, we make so much noise, we'll make someone deaf one day.

I always tell my friends that I am going to stop watching sports when I am about 50 because my heart won't be able to take it! ;)

DelMonte

Ps And I really should know all about staying calm under pressure and controlling nerves etc. I used to complete in athletics when I was younger. Go figure!

:lol:

I used to be the same way but over the years I've learned
to just keep it cool and not let my nerves get the best of me.

I played basketball & tennis and the hardest thing for me to get over
was the crowd. My game was good but nerves always crept in when
I knew someone was watching. :lol:

Bitter Blue Bong
May 27th, 2004, 03:23 PM
She's mixing her game a lot and Venus obviously has some problems with that. Mary is better than Jelena, of course, but her game is a bit less about mixing and a lot more about hitting.

Exactly. And Leon Garcia is ranked #107, so I don't know if that victory is anything to get excited over.

Infiniti2001
May 27th, 2004, 03:29 PM
What's with all the speculating?? Venus has played Mary on clay in the past, so obviously she knows what to expect. You just cannot predict Meryl easily-- she can turn up for her next match so off :eek: damn she couldn't beat Olivia Lukaszewicz. :tape:

http://members.fortunecity.com/infinitiqx2004/1099ec80.jpg

Black Mamba.
May 27th, 2004, 03:32 PM
Vee didn't play well today we all know that her serve and her forehand were off today, but look at the postives:

1. Her movement looked really good
2. She doesn't appear to be injured which is a plus
3. Vee gets better when the Tournement progresses
4. All the top players have struggled ie.... Henin, J-Cap, Momo,

Piotrek
May 27th, 2004, 03:36 PM
Venus vs Mary in 3r :hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

tennisIlove09
May 27th, 2004, 03:36 PM
yea this is Venus....but Mary loves her short balls. you know how Mary plays, right?...if Venus gets her first serve IN, that will help, if she serves like she did today, it's gonna be a battle.

Eurosport better show this match i swear.
Have you seen Mary play lately? it's either hit or miss. miss more of the time. Against the top players, she struggles because her serve isn't what it use to be. I don't see Venus having too much trouble.

apoet29
May 27th, 2004, 03:37 PM
Looking at Mary's clay record this year compared to Venus, I would say that Venus really has nothing to worry about. Mary played four clay tournaments leading up to the French Open: Amelia Island, Charleston, Berlin, and Rome.

Amelia Island
64 Meghann Shaughnessy 6-1, 6-2 W
32 Serena Williams 3-6, 1-6 L

Charleston
64 Akiko Morigami 2-6, 3-6 L

Berlin
64 Elena Likhotseva 7-6, 5-7, 6-7 L

Rome
64 Gisela Dulko 6-1, 6-4 W
32 Ai Sugiyama 2-6, 4-6 L

Before the French Open, Mary won two matches in four tournaments against Shaugnessy (no. 39) and Dulko (no. 64). Neither player is known for their clay court prowess. Given how well Venus has played during the clay season, traditionally her worst surface, I think she will move easily into the fourth round. Besides, if nothing else, she can ask Serena for advice on how to play Mary.

oddkayla
May 27th, 2004, 03:38 PM
If Venus does not seriously lift her game in the next two days, she can kiss the tournament goodbye, go home, rest that ankle and get ready for Wimbledon.

Actually even though she made unforced errors off the forehand, I thought it still looked good. she just made unforced errors. Her serve when it was going was very powerful, but her second was bad, even though in her last match it looked improved to me.

Mary can still strike the ball. If all of Venus does not show up, Marie moves on, and then the French will start the party.

Piotrek
May 27th, 2004, 03:40 PM
If Venus does not seriously lift her game in the next two days, she can kiss the tournament goodbye, go home, rest that ankle and get ready for Wimbledon.

Actually even though she made unforced errors off the forehand, I thought it still looked good. she just made unforced errors. Her serve when it was going was very powerful, but her second was bad, even though in her last match it looked improved to me.

Mary can still strike the ball. If all of Venus does not show up, Marie moves on, and then the French will start the party.

:wavey: :) Goooooooooooooooooo Mary !!!!! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

tennisIlove09
May 27th, 2004, 03:41 PM
If Venus does not seriously lift her game in the next two days, she can kiss the tournament goodbye, go home, rest that ankle and get ready for Wimbledon.

Actually even though she made unforced errors off the forehand, I thought it still looked good. she just made unforced errors. Her serve when it was going was very powerful, but her second was bad, even though in her last match it looked improved to me.

Mary can still strike the ball. If all of Venus does not show up, Marie moves on, and then the French will start the party.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Please, Venus has been playing well. Venus always plays to the level of her opponent. She actually makes a match of it, instead of winning 6-0 6-1 all the time.

I'm so tired of people claiming to be Venus fans, when they are really haters :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Paneru
May 27th, 2004, 03:42 PM
Vee didn't play well today we all know that her serve and her forehand were off today, but look at the postives:

1. Her movement looked really good
2. She doesn't appear to be injured which is a plus
3. Vee gets better when the Tournement progresses
4. All the top players have struggled ie.... Henin, J-Cap, Momo,

:yeah:

Infiniti2001
May 27th, 2004, 03:42 PM
IFs are pointless :rolleyes:

Paneru
May 27th, 2004, 03:44 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Please, Venus has been playing well. Venus always plays to the level of her opponent. She actually makes a match of it, instead of winning 6-0 6-1 all the time.

I'm so tired of people claiming to be Venus fans, when they are really haters :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:bigclap:

Don't sweat it! :cool:

We know what Venus can do! :wavey:

tennisIlove09
May 27th, 2004, 03:44 PM
and Venus has had the toughest first two matches.

Tanasugarn is slumping, but she should be top 30

Kostanic has had a great clay season, and was a dangerous player.

Venus has only dropped 12 games, when she probably could have dropped a lot more. She's not facing no bodies, like other players are

OUT!
May 27th, 2004, 03:44 PM
Great play Vee!

http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/aktion/action-smiley-046.gif

SJW
May 27th, 2004, 03:45 PM
Have you seen Mary play lately? it's either hit or miss. miss more of the time. Against the top players, she struggles because her serve isn't what it use to be. I don't see Venus having too much trouble.
i saw her play vs Claudine Schaul r1 :rolleyes:

she was very impressive. :shrug:

Knizzle
May 27th, 2004, 03:48 PM
i saw her play vs Claudine Schaul r1 :rolleyes:

she was very impressive. :shrug:
Somehow I don't think you would be saying anything if Pierce was set to face Serena.

apoet29
May 27th, 2004, 03:48 PM
If Venus does not seriously lift her game in the next two days, she can kiss the tournament goodbye, go home, rest that ankle and get ready for Wimbledon.

Actually even though she made unforced errors off the forehand, I thought it still looked good. she just made unforced errors. Her serve when it was going was very powerful, but her second was bad, even though in her last match it looked improved to me.

Mary can still strike the ball. If all of Venus does not show up, Marie moves on, and then the French will start the party.
If you were referring to the Mary Pierce of 2000, I would totally agree with you. But Mary is not that player anymore. Two years away from the game and assorted injuries have robbed Mary of the athleticism that she once had. Plus, I don't think you are giving Venus enough credit for coming back from a bad start to the year to really playing well during the clay court season. Mary's two opponents were not players that could trouble her if she was playing well. Shaul, I think, was not ready to play FO after her big win in Strausbourg. Leon Garcia has a terrible grand slam record and hasn't been in the second round of a gs since her second round loss in Paris last year.

No, I think Venus will do just fine. She may be struggling, but so have Jennifer Capriati and Lindsey Davenport. Heck, even Juju just lost the other day. Just because Venus is struggling doesn't mean she can't make it through to the end.

tennisIlove09
May 27th, 2004, 03:49 PM
i saw her play vs Claudine Schaul r1 :rolleyes:

she was very impressive. :shrug:
and can compare Claudine to Venus because.... :confused:


<----------just realizes that you're a Serena...now I understand where this is coming from. I'm out. I'm not wasting my time :wavey:

SJW
May 27th, 2004, 03:49 PM
Somehow I don't think you would be saying anything if Pierce was set to face Serena.
get over yourself.

SJW
May 27th, 2004, 03:50 PM
and can compare Claudine to Venus because.... :confused:


<----------just realizes that you're a Serena...now I understand where this is coming from. I'm out. I'm not wasting my time :wavey:
Mary = sentimental favourite of mine. i've loved her for years.

sorry i'm new to this game. didn't realise i wasn't allowed to like other players.

Infiniti2001
May 27th, 2004, 03:50 PM
and Venus has had the toughest first two matches.

Tanasugarn is slumping, but she should be top 30

Kostanic has had a great clay season, and was a dangerous player.

Venus has only dropped 12 games, when she probably could have dropped a lot more. She's not facing no bodies, like other players are

Oh don't threat, it's human nature... Posters inevitably predict whoever is going to be "tough" for one of the top players, it's almost like wishful thinking. I just love it when there's a letdown :tape:

Chance
May 27th, 2004, 03:51 PM
im not sure why you are attacking SJW... just because we are taking Mary seriously doesn't mean we don't believe in Venus.

Knizzle
May 27th, 2004, 03:52 PM
get over yourself.
Stop lying to YOURself.

SJW
May 27th, 2004, 03:52 PM
im not sure why you are attacking SJW... just because we are taking Mary seriously doesn't mean we don't believe in Venus.
um yes it does. saying Mary has good returns mean i want Venus to die.

brickhousesupporter
May 27th, 2004, 03:52 PM
I'm so tired of people claiming to be Venus fans, when they are really haters :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I so know what you mean, I am also so tired of people who claim to be fans of Serena and are really haters......:) :tape:

Anything can happen, but I dont see Venus having any problems with Mary....I think a lot of Mary fans tend to live on past glories, she may have been great once but time and injuries have made her less of a contender.

SJW
May 27th, 2004, 03:54 PM
Stop lying to YOURself.
k thx

Knizzle
May 27th, 2004, 03:54 PM
im not sure why you are attacking SJW... Because she's phony.

oddkayla
May 27th, 2004, 03:54 PM
TennisIlove09

Do you honestly think that Venus intentionally serves bad just to make a match of it? Evidently you think as a fan people should be blinded to their faves fault.

I have been a fan of Venus ever since she came onto the scene with no stategy, just raw power and raw emotions. I have watched her step by step and hold her to such a high standard that no player in the WTA can match. I actually really believe that if she decides to play, no one can touch her. I am also not blind to her vulnerabilities.

I have seen Venus play her game, and bring all the dogs to the court, and leave the tournament as the last woman standing, and thats what I want for her.

I, nor any fan whatsoever do not need to be told like blind sheep that Venus intentionally makes a match of games by losing her serve, and overall playing bad.

If you do, you have insulted the very standards to which Venus holds her self. You have insulted her pride and more, and I doubt that leaves you with much room to question other people's worthiness as fans

Infiniti2001
May 27th, 2004, 03:54 PM
I'm sorry Sarah, but you only act like a Vee fan when it's convenient :tape: There's a big difference between constructive criticism and outright criticism :rolleyes:

Paneru
May 27th, 2004, 03:56 PM
im not sure why you are attacking SJW... just because we are taking Mary seriously doesn't mean we don't believe in Venus.

I don't think they are or
was their intention.

I think it has nothing to do with SJW.
I think it is just the fact that when others struggle they are often
are given the benefit of the doubt that Venus rarely is afforded
from what I've seen around here.

tennisIlove09
May 27th, 2004, 03:58 PM
TennisIlove09

Do you honestly think that Venus intentionally serves bad just to make a match of it? Evidently you think as a fan people should be blinded to their faves fault.

I have been a fan of Venus ever since she came onto the scene with no stategy, just raw power and raw emotions. I have watched her step by step and hold her to such a high standard that no player in the WTA can match. I actually really believe that if she decides to play, no one can touch her. I am also not blind to her vulnerabilities.

I have seen Venus play her game, and bring all the dogs to the court, and leave the tournament as the last woman standing, and thats what I want for her.

I, nor any fan whatsoever do not need to be told like blind sheep that Venus intentionally makes a match of games by losing her serve, and overall playing bad.

If you do, you have insulted the very standards to which Venus holds her self. You have insulted her pride and more, and I doubt that leaves you with much room to question other people's worthiness as fans
I don't feel Venus served poorly. Perhaps her first serve percent was low, but her second serve wasn't bad at all, IMO

SJW
May 27th, 2004, 04:00 PM
I'm sorry Sarah, but you only act like a Vee fan when it's convenient :tape: There's a big difference between constructive criticism and outright criticism :rolleyes:
ok find examples of non-constructive criticism.

Cariaoke
May 27th, 2004, 04:00 PM
Oh please!

Like people don't do the same shit to Serena... or Capriati when she struggled against Beygelzimer!

I'd wish VENUS FANS (yeah those who like Venus more than they do Serena but try to fit under the Williams fan label to be cool but go around attacking Serena fans cuz their shit doesn't stink, apparently) will stop pulling out the victim card when it's convenient for them.

Mary is a former grand slam champion, AT THIS TOURNAMENT. Last time I checked, you take that player SERIOUSLY. Even if she wasn't a grand slam champion... *cough* Loit, Kuznetsova, Raymond, et al that have pushed the sisters *cough* you take them seriously.

I swear you people need activities... *shakes head*

GO VENUS AND SERENA!

brickhousesupporter
May 27th, 2004, 04:03 PM
TennisIlove09

Do you honestly think that Venus intentionally serves bad just to make a match of it? Evidently you think as a fan people should be blinded to their faves fault.

I have been a fan of Venus ever since she came onto the scene with no stategy, just raw power and raw emotions. I have watched her step by step and hold her to such a high standard that no player in the WTA can match. I actually really believe that if she decides to play, no one can touch her. I am also not blind to her vulnerabilities.

I have seen Venus play her game, and bring all the dogs to the court, and leave the tournament as the last woman standing, and thats what I want for her.

I, nor any fan whatsoever do not need to be told like blind sheep that Venus intentionally makes a match of games by losing her serve, and overall playing bad.

If you do, you have insulted the very standards to which Venus holds her self. You have insulted her pride and more, and I doubt that leaves you with much room to question other people's worthiness as fans

Great Post
:worship: :worship:

That is on the level of the Capriati fans a couple of years ago, when the felt after a loss by Jen that she was saving herself for the slams.....

Infiniti2001
May 27th, 2004, 04:03 PM
Well her stats actually have improved from her 1st round match. I believe her 2nd serve % was 18 in her 1st match :eek: It was %39 today. And her first serve was up as well.

I was surprised though to see her winner error ratio which was like 16-22:eek: I would like to see her improve there.

Still a win is a win and she lives to fight another day. In tennis that is really all you can ask for.

Yep, playing a lefty can be frustrating-- you don't get any rythm :p

Paneru
May 27th, 2004, 04:04 PM
Like people don't do the same shit to Serena... or Capriati when she struggled against Beygelzimer!

I think that's the point and it does happen to Venus more
often because I don't think people are as comfortable
or as confident in Venus' game or should I say the
mechanics of her game.

Anyways, last thing we need around her if V&S fans
turning on each other. At this rate, there's no need
for the haters, we're already doing it for them.

Rocketta
May 27th, 2004, 04:05 PM
why is everyone so touchy today???? :unsure:

Congrats Venus! :dance: :bounce: :aparty:

Foot_Fault
May 27th, 2004, 04:05 PM
Are we back in this Williams Fan Split shit? OMG!

oddkayla
May 27th, 2004, 04:07 PM
I havent seen any of Mary's matches, just half a set. All I'm saying is that Venus needs to be on her guard, raise her game. She played well during the clay season and I do not want to see her lose those gains. Obviously the injury did not help, but she needs to reestablish that fear in her opponents

Mary is a good striker of the ball. You dont want her feeling confident and swinging freely. Venus does not need to be taking anymore time on the court than she needs to. Even though the ankle maybe getting better she still needs to watch it.

I so hope to God that she goes all the way! She so thoroughly deserves it, fighting her failing body, and all the naysayers as well. Which in a way she has.

Good thing Venus fans, when those people jumped on the bandwagon, they were crowding us. At least now we have room!

Rocketta
May 27th, 2004, 04:10 PM
omg, why can't a venus fan give their honest opinion on her game and if they are worried about her without it being seen as treason? It would be different if someone came in and said I think she's losing next match but no one did. Some of you guys had too much caffine today...:scared:

victory1
May 27th, 2004, 04:13 PM
omg, why can't a venus fan give their honest opinion on her game and if they are worried about her without it being seen as treason? It would be different if someone came in and said I think she's losing next match but no one did. Some of you guys had too much caffine today...:scared:
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Cariaoke
May 27th, 2004, 04:13 PM
I'm sayin' Rocketta!

Like we, as fans, are supposed to be :hearts: when she didn't play her best. I am her fan but I will criticize her as I see fit. She was a tad slow starting the match... going down 0-3, then she played amazing to win the next 6 games only to get broken twice and break back twice at the start of the second.

She made mistakes. She can't make the same mistakes against Mary. It's THAT SIMPLE AND COMMON SENSE.

Like Serena against Loit 1r AO 2003... Serena made corrections in the next round.

Venus will do the same. But somehow saying that she NEEDS to make the corrections in her next round is enough to get your head cut off. Calm the fuck down and get over yourselves. It's not that serious. Good lord.

DeDe4925
May 27th, 2004, 04:14 PM
A win's a win, but Vee really needs to step it up. Especially against Mary Pierce.

Paneru
May 27th, 2004, 04:18 PM
omg, why can't a venus fan give their honest opinion on her game and if they are worried about her without it being seen as treason? It would be different if someone came in and said I think she's losing next match but no one did. Some of you guys had too much caffine today...:scared:

I can't speak for anyone else but for me
I only get huffy because this same thing happens
every tournament Venus plays at some point or another.

I guess our personalities differ and I've got to deal better, which is why I think I have a certain reputation as I do among some V&S fans.

I'm a "glass half full" kind of person.
I can see what's wrong or went wrong and needs
to be fixed but I don't dwell on the negative
and look at what was done well.

I understand and share the concern of the ankle but,
she's moving well so I'm not really worried.
As for her serve and forehand, both were off
but I just know she'll work it out.

So, I think that's why I get defensive at times
where Venus is concerned.

BTW, no caffine for me today! ;)

Black Mamba.
May 27th, 2004, 04:22 PM
Vee needs to step up, but so does Mary. I haven't seen Mary do anything against the top players lately, so we know Vee needs to pick it up, but Mary needs to pick up her game just as much. I mean I see people talk about Vee as if she never beat Mary before and as if Mary is the best player in the tournement. Don't get me wrong I like Mary and her game, but she needs to pick it up just like Vee.

Cariaoke
May 27th, 2004, 04:24 PM
@ Kabuke
I don't think any comments were directed at you... ;)

but every player is criticized... it's a part of playing the game. Like a wild pitch or blowing a no-hitter in baseball, throwing an interception in football... any error in any sport is looked at and overanalyzed. It only seems to be a problem when Venus is concerned. Pick on all the other players but don't pick on our poor Venus. The matyrdom is getting old. That's truth. :)

apoet29
May 27th, 2004, 04:24 PM
I'm sure that Venus knows that she needs to be on her guard against Mary. Given her past experiences at RG, (i.e. losing to Barbara Schett in the first round in 2001) I am sure that Venus is quite aware that she needs to take each opponent seriously and I am also sure that she recognizes that Mary has the potential to beat her. However, I will say that I truly do not feel that Mary is any real threat to Venus. Mary may have played well in her last two matches, but that does not mean that she has the potential to beat Venus. Yes, she won RG, but that was 4 years ago and from the matches I have seen her play at RG thus far, there is nothing there that can convince me that Mary could beat Venus.

Interestingly enough, I looked up their head to head. Venus leads 5-2, having won two of those five matches on clay against Pierce in 1999 at Hamburg (6-0, 6-3 FR) and Rome (6-4, 6-2 FR). Incidentally, 1999 was the last year they played against each other. Mary lost in the second round of the French that year to Martinez and Venus lost in the fourth round to Schwartz. Given the fact that Venus has had a much better clay court season this year and appears to have gone through her matches without any mobility problems, I think she will beat Pierce comfortably. Do I think she should take this match seriously? Absolutely, but I don't think that she will lose to Pierce, and I guess I don't understand why anyone would think so.

Paneru
May 27th, 2004, 04:28 PM
@ Kabuke
I don't think any comments were directed at you... ;)

but every player is criticized... it's a part of playing the game. Like a wild pitch or blowing a no-hitter in baseball, throwing an interception in football... any error in any sport is looked at and overanalyzed. It only seems to be a problem when Venus is concerned. Pick on all the other players but don't pick on our poor Venus. The matyrdom is getting old. That's truth. :)

Oh, I know! :)

Just needed to say that.

I think that's it,
the overanalyzing part
that gets to me, or that I allow to get to me.

I rarely do picking on other's so maybe that's
why I allow it to get to me. No matyrdom, just
I don't do it often so I found it hard when done to Venus.
If that even makes sense! :lol:

I'm fine now.
If i can't agree or whatever the case
I'll just try and let it pass and move
on.

Cariaoke
May 27th, 2004, 04:29 PM
I don't believe anyone said she would LOSE to Pierce but she should take this match seriously. All this blind faith is a little unsettling. She's having a great clay court season but I listened to Radio RG and Matt said she was moving tentatively on some shots which would lead me to believe she isn't as confident in her ankle.

Knizzle
May 27th, 2004, 04:34 PM
Venus moved fine. The first couple games she will be a bit slow until her ankle warms up a bit.

Paneru
May 27th, 2004, 04:35 PM
I don't believe anyone said she would LOSE to Pierce but she should take this match seriously. All this blind faith is a little unsettling. She's having a great clay court season but I listened to Radio RG and Matt said she was moving tentatively on some shots which would lead me to believe she isn't as confident in her ankle.

I don't worry much or get overly upset with her because
it's her out there and not me.

I feel she's made it this far being who she is and knows
what she needs to do to get further.

I know I have no control so I just trust
Venus to make the adjustments she needs as she
knows her game and all its intricacy's better than me.

I don't see that as blind faith.

I watched the match and her movement looked
quite fine. Mary worried about her height in correlation
to her movement and why she get's injured but I saw no looks of pain
maybe I missed something there. I'll look again.

Knizzle
May 27th, 2004, 04:41 PM
All I know is that if someone said Serena would struggle in her next match against Mary Pierce. SJW, bandabou, etc., wouldn't agree no matter what the circumstances. SJW claims to love both sisters perfectly evenly, but she takes all kinda shots at Venus. Backhanded ones especially. It's perfectly fine to like Serena better than Venus, or not to like one or the other at all, but don't be phony like you care the same about them both. Especially when your attitude reflects the opposite.

Knizzle
May 27th, 2004, 04:45 PM
The arguing stops now. We have to band together and support our girl Serena. FIGHT!! :boxing:

Infiniti2001
May 27th, 2004, 04:50 PM
I don't worry much or get overly upset with her because
it's her out there and not me.

I feel she's made it this far being who she is and knows
what she needs to do to get further.

I know I have no control so I just trust
Venus to make the adjustments she needs as she
knows her game and all its intricacy's better than me.

I don't see that as blind faith.

I watched the match and her movement looked
quite fine. Mary worried about her height in correlation
to her movement and why she get's injured but I saw no looks of pain
maybe I missed something there. I'll look again.

You didn't miss anything. Did you see when Kostanic tried to drop shot her for the 3rd time??? Of course we should worry about her ankle, but she's not showing any signs of it being a problem.

Diya.
May 27th, 2004, 04:51 PM
I hope Pierce can send Venus packing in two ! If she doesn't its ok coz someone else will soon :)

Infiniti2001
May 27th, 2004, 05:00 PM
Not too much fun Diya, this Troll Slayer is on your trail :haha:

Sportfan
May 27th, 2004, 05:21 PM
It's really funny to me when people think Venus played awful, but don't credit the type of game that was thrown at Venus.

Venus is at her best when she's in rhythm. Jelena mixes up the pace, she's a left, and she goes for her shots more.

Venus was in NO rhythm today, but good enough to get through....
She will adjust to the BALL, not the opponent.
I didn't say she played awful I said she needed to pick it up a notch or two if she is going to go all the way. Imo both players were struggling a bit with their games jelena does mix it up and goes for her shots but today she made precious few of them and Venus was slightly more consistent but had problems also missing forehands and first serves it just wasn't a great match for either player.

7~LV3
May 27th, 2004, 06:15 PM
you guys are lovely ... !!! :worship:

ms Venus, who reached the 3 straight clay court finalsm while losing a few sets here and there to some players against someone who errm been doing good in clay :confused: ... who needs to step it up :worship: when Williams are back in tennis, is this all they get...damn...!!! :sad:

go ms VENUS :worship: mwuahaha

Sandstorm
May 27th, 2004, 06:46 PM
Jelena:sad::sad:

tennisIlove09
May 27th, 2004, 07:26 PM
I don't believe anyone said she would LOSE to Pierce but she should take this match seriously. All this blind faith is a little unsettling. She's having a great clay court season but I listened to Radio RG and Matt said she was moving tentatively on some shots which would lead me to believe she isn't as confident in her ankle.
Venus takes every match seriously. :o

Rocketta
May 27th, 2004, 07:28 PM
I think all our nerves are shot after today.....:scared:

:lol:

We'll regroup and hopefully get along better on Saturday! :wavey:

SJW
May 27th, 2004, 08:15 PM
no

i almost got lynched for saying Mary's returns were good. it's not like i hate Mary :rolleyes: she's right up there on my faves list.

this fucking sucks. i'm hopping on the Henin bandwagon.

CJ07
May 27th, 2004, 08:24 PM
you all really,
if SJW has an opinion, it's hers. no need to criticize.
And quite frankly, I didn't think Venus played well at all. And she DOES only play as well as she has to 75% of the time. It's only when she's at full flight that she tries to run over her opponent.

She was very conservative with her shot making, was too defensive, and wasn't hitting the ball hard at all....but she didn't need to.

As for the serve, she hit some good second serves, very fast..but Venus needs to stop worrying about the speed and worry about the kick. That's what's going to do it. She's not hitting those puffball slices that are halfway in the service box, but she's trying to hit 98 mph second serves when she should be hitting 85 mph kicks out wide. She did maybe 4 or 5, but when she started missing she went back to what's comfortable, slower slices.

But you all need to remember this is just tennis, just a discussion board, its not that serious. No need to berate each other.

smarties
May 27th, 2004, 10:51 PM
Kostanic really had her chances and started beautifully mixing it up and waiting for an opportunity to unleash that big forehand but she went away from that plan and starting making errors. Too bad because Venus wasn't playing great.

charmedRic
May 27th, 2004, 11:06 PM
Congratulation To Miss Williams, Better Luck Next Time Jelena!

Berlin_Calling
May 27th, 2004, 11:34 PM
Interestingly enough, I looked up their head to head. Venus leads 5-2, having won two of those five matches on clay against Pierce in 1999 at Hamburg (6-0, 6-3 FR) and Rome (6-4, 6-2 FR). Incidentally, 1999 was the last year they played against each other. Mary lost in the second round of the French that year to Martinez and Venus lost in the fourth round to Schwartz. Given the fact that Venus has had a much better clay court season this year and appears to have gone through her matches without any mobility problems, I think she will beat Pierce comfortably. Do I think she should take this match seriously? Absolutely, but I don't think that she will lose to Pierce, and I guess I don't understand why anyone would think so.
As a Mary fan, I would be lying if I said I wasnt biased. Taking into account though, I dont think that Venus being undefeated on clay this year and Mary winning only two matches on the slow stuff before this tournament is a good arguement that Venus will roll over Mary easily. I mean we are talking about Mary here, you know a player that loses to a player ranked around 250 the week before she wins Roland Garros? Im not saying that Mary will suddenly find her RG 2000 form but I do think that she will give Venus a tough test.
Lets face it. Venus did not play too well today and Jelena played even crappier. Plus, Jelena didnt even have much variety today, except for a couple nice dropshots. People here seem to think that Mary is all about power but when she is playing well, she can also hit some devastating drop shots and her net game these days is as good as it has ever been. I also think that Mary has a better second serve than Venus. If Mary is having a good serving day, she can match Venus. And saying that Mary's serve is gone is stupid because whoever saw her match against Dokic last year at the US Open saw how big of a weapon the serve could be (12 aces).
I am looking forward to this match very much. I know that it may be a rollover from Venus and she is the obvious favorite but I do think that if Mary brings her A game, and Venus is off like she was today, we can see a very close match and maybe even an upset in the making.

VeraNuVirgosFan
May 28th, 2004, 02:11 AM
Congratulations, Venus!

Keep It Up!!

I saw this match live (and her 1st match also), but I miss Venus' smiles: I saw a lot of her smiles in Hong Kong - some of them to me personally - and I want to see her smiles again.

WF4EVER
May 28th, 2004, 02:20 AM
I don't think Venus played well today at all. Well, I think she did in the first set. To fall behind 0-3 and win six games in a row was impressive, but the second set was just a really sloppy match from both players.

I'm wondering if Venus is just holding herself back, not extending herself too much if she thinks she doesn't have to. But I want to see a marked improvement vs Mary. I don't care how Mary comes out playing; I want Venus to reach the point where she decides it time to step it up.

In her last two tournaments Mary had a great start then lost miserably to the higher ranked player. Does this mean that she's only playing well enough to beat the lesser players? Come on, beating Schaul in the 1st round is no fair measure because Schaul had just had a most exhilarating week in Strasbourg and as they say intennis "she was due for a letdown". Also, Mary clearly does not move the way she used to; hopefully Venus will play better so that can become more evident.

I do believe Venus has to step it up in the next round no matter who she's playing. It's the third round and it's time for her to start showing the other players that's she there for the long haul. No more saving herself for the later rounds because she may be losing and realise it too late. I think it's time for her to start sending that message that she's ready and willing to stake claim to this title. Showing up just isn't enough.

I read the other day that she might not be practising; I hope this doesn't last because I want her to come out sharper than she has these past two rounds. The quicker she can win the better for her.