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View Full Version : Illness really hurts Justine in Paris...


tennisIlove09
May 26th, 2004, 03:05 PM
2001--Semis
2002--is ill, and crashes first round (and she could have prevented a Serena Slam, as she was in the quarter there. Given JHH's success against Serena on clay, that could have changed history)
2003--Wins
2004--Ill, and crashes in second round

Mateo Mathieu
May 26th, 2004, 03:06 PM
Well, it's normal, isn't it? :) You can't changed that for her, don't you? :)

Good onya, Tathiana! :D

DD
May 26th, 2004, 03:13 PM
Rubbish, the head to head were 1-1 going into the french open

katrientje
May 26th, 2004, 03:15 PM
Justine is a player who needs a lot of matches and rhythm.... I hoped she'd pull through though...

bandabou
May 26th, 2004, 03:16 PM
So its like: one big, one bad, one big, one bad?! Hmmm...so much for being a clay-courter.

7~LV3
May 26th, 2004, 03:17 PM
If it was Wimbledon...she would have reached untill the quarters...

lol...she could have prevented the Serena Slam?? lols...Serena beat her in straight sets a couple of weeks ago...

Tatiana kinda really played well, mentally probably, she had the guts...

slice
May 26th, 2004, 03:17 PM
she wasnt sick :rolleyes:

just accept that she cant cheat her way in2 winning the title this year like last year with a certain hand :o sorry henin, no chance 2 do that in 2004 as u LOST! :haha:

shap_half
May 26th, 2004, 03:18 PM
So its like: one big, one bad, one big, one bad?! Hmmm...so much for being a clay-courter.

the bads were due to some mitigating circumstances. it wasn't like she went into both of those matches at 100% and still lost.

~ The Leopard ~
May 26th, 2004, 03:20 PM
Get all better, Juju! :hug:

bandabou
May 26th, 2004, 03:21 PM
the bads were due to some mitigating circumstances. it wasn't like she went into both of those matches at 100% and still lost.

Of course, of course....somehow if it was Serena who was in the same position and would have lost, dont thin youd have said this...

Lady
May 26th, 2004, 03:22 PM
Well, at least that means she's gonna win it next year! ;)

tennisIlove09
May 26th, 2004, 03:24 PM
If it was Wimbledon...she would have reached untill the quarters...

lol...she could have prevented the Serena Slam?? lols...Serena beat her in straight sets a couple of weeks ago...

Tatiana kinda really played well, mentally probably, she had the guts...
Not saying she would have...but that QF would have been much more intense then the Pierce QF

And while Serena had beat her in 7-6 6-4 in Rome, JHH had won Berlin over Serena 6-1 2-6 7-6

bandabou
May 26th, 2004, 03:24 PM
Not saying she would have...but that QF would have been much more intense then the Pierce QF

And while Serena had beat her in 7-6 6-4 in Rome, JHH had won Berlin over Serena 6-1 2-6 7-6


I smell a Venus only fan here....rather face Juju than Serena at that RG, huh?!

asotgod
May 26th, 2004, 03:37 PM
illness, my foot. Pure explanation of failure. Henin is overhyped. Simple. She has some good techniques but she is not all that like many claim she is. No matter her excuses, she should not have lost to Tatiana. It's makes me consider her a tier 2 or 3 player because she should have fared much better. Her overhyped forehand was a mess. That has always been her problem, and will remain until she makes adjustments. Her clay abilities, to me, have diminished, as you can tell throughout this year that in all her clay matches, she was taking too many balls early and mistiming wrongly like it's normally done on hardcourts. So, it's not sickness excuses like has been said, her improve techniques on hard have cost her some pain on clay in terms of timing and normal adjustments.

moby
May 26th, 2004, 03:40 PM
illness, my foot. Pure explanation of failure. Henin is overhyped. Simple. She has some good techniques but she is not all that like many claim she is. No matter her excuses, she should not have lost to Tatiana. It's makes me consider her a tier 2 or 3 player because she should have fared much better. Her overhyped forehand was a mess. That has always been her problem, and will remain until she makes adjustments. Her clay abilities, to me, have diminished, as you can tell throughout this year that in all her clay matches, she was taking too many balls early and mistiming wrongly like it's normally done on hardcourts. So, it's not sickness excuses like has been said, her improve techniques on hard have cost her some pain on clay in terms of timing and normal adjustments.
she certainly has not played many matches on clay this year. And every match she played on clay she's not been well. It is rather presumptous of you to say "all her clay matches"

flyingmachine
May 26th, 2004, 03:42 PM
:bigcry:

Volcana
May 26th, 2004, 04:01 PM
she wasnt sick :rolleyes:

just accept that she cant cheat her way in2 winning the title this year like last year with a certain hand :o sorry henin, no chance 2 do that in 2004 as u LOST! :haha:
illness, my foot. Pure explanation of failure. Henin is overhyped. Simple. She has some good techniques but she is not all that like many claim she is. No matter her excuses, she should not have lost to Tatiana. It's makes me consider her a tier 2 or 3 player because she should have fared much better. Her overhyped forehand was a mess. That has always been her problem, and will remain until she makes adjustments. Her clay abilities, to me, have diminished, as you can tell throughout this year that in all her clay matches, she was taking too many balls early and mistiming wrongly like it's normally done on hardcourts. So, it's not sickness excuses like has been said, her improve techniques on hard have cost her some pain on clay in terms of timing and normal adjustments.These responses are soooo predictable.

slice - That's a joke.

asotgod - I give you credit for at least the pretense at analsyis. However, your conclusions are inaccurate.

First "overhyped'. How overhyped can you be if you win three of the last four slams? And she beat Serena at RG last year, so it can't be laid to the absence of V&S.

Second "Her clay abilities, to me, have diminished". She played ONE clay court tournament since RG last year. ONE. She beat Safina, Martinez, Zvonareva and lost to Mauresmo! Then she was diagnosed ill and pulled out of everything. Her success on clay last year CAME by 'taking the ball early'. Go look at the tape!

She's not sick, you're right. But if you've ever had mono, or pneumonia (I've had both) or any other serious viral lung infection, you know it takes a LONG time to get your endurance back. TEN double-faults weren't the result of using 'hardcourt technique'. That was FATIGUE.

You could see her body wasn't as tight as last year, she had no red clay tune-ups, and she's coming off an illness that anyone who's had it will tell you is hell on your conditioning.

All that said, Tathiana Garbin won, Justine lost, straight up. But pretending that Justine being under-prepared and under-conditioned had nothing to do with this loss makes you look like an idiot. And judging from your 'analysis' you aren't one. You just REALLY dislike Henin-Hardenne. Here's a tip. I don't like her either. But it doesn't make me lie to myself, or anyone else.

Martian KC
May 26th, 2004, 04:04 PM
Aren't these the same people that complain about haters being on full force whenever the willies lose?:o

turt
May 26th, 2004, 04:06 PM
These responses are soooo predictable.

slice - That's a joke.

asotgod - I give you credit for at least the pretense at analsyis. However, your conclusions are inaccurate.

First "overhyped'. How overhyped can you be if you win three of the last four slams? And she beat Serena at RG last year, so it can't be laid to the absence of V&S.

Second "Her clay abilities, to me, have diminished". She played ONE clay court tournament since RG last year. ONE. She beat Safina, Martinez, Zvonareva and lost to Mauresmo! Then she was diagnosed ill and pulled out of everything. Her success on clay last year CAME by 'taking the ball early'. Go look at the tape!

She's not sick, you're right. But if you've ever had mono, or pneumonia (I've had both) or any other serious viral lung infection, you know it takes a LONG time to get your endurance back. TEN double-faults weren't the result of using 'hardcourt technique'. That was FATIGUE.

You could see her body wasn't as tight as last year, she had no red clay tune-ups, and she's coming off an illness that anyone who's had it will tell you is hell on your conditioning.

All that said, Tathiana Garbin won, Justine lost, straight up. But pretending that Justine being under-prepared and under-conditioned had nothing to do with this loss makes you look like an idiot. And judging from your 'analysis' you aren't one. You just REALLY dislike Henin-Hardenne. Here's a tip. I don't like her either. But it doesn't make me lie to myslef, or anyone else.
:worship:

asotgod
May 26th, 2004, 04:13 PM
Volcana,

I dont dislike her. But, I dont like her either. Definitely, fatigue is a factor but if she said she was set to play and at about 75 or 85% like she said, then she should have won this match at least. I insist she is overhyped because I am pretty sure that she wouldn't have won the U.S or the Australian had Serena (particularly) and Venus being around. I know Venus was in the Australian Open but that was after six months break. Henin just left for 6 weeks and cannot find her footing on her supposed best surface? Then she is not as good as she is claimed to be. I watched most of her clay court matches last year and the tournament where she lost to Mauresmo. Henin was taking some balls early but was really patient last year. But, watching the tournament where she lost to Mauresmo, Henin's timing was sometimes off. She was trying to take so many balls way too early and was "overaggressive". She was born and bread on clay. So, your saying she had no red clay tune-ups are not tenable excuses.

Note also that I never said she was underprepared or underconditioned. I did not say that at all. My point was illness is not an excuse for her loss. Ferrero was out for quite a while also and played a tougher customer but won yesterday. I never also said ten double faults are also a result of technique. Neither do I agree it is fatigue. Henin double faults just like that a lot of times, and still finds a way to win, but could not today. Her opponent took her chances but Henin did not leave up to the expectation of a presumed "#1". That's just it.

bandabou
May 26th, 2004, 04:19 PM
These responses are soooo predictable.

slice - That's a joke.

asotgod - I give you credit for at least the pretense at analsyis. However, your conclusions are inaccurate.

First "overhyped'. How overhyped can you be if you win three of the last four slams? And she beat Serena at RG last year, so it can't be laid to the absence of V&S.

Second "Her clay abilities, to me, have diminished". She played ONE clay court tournament since RG last year. ONE. She beat Safina, Martinez, Zvonareva and lost to Mauresmo! Then she was diagnosed ill and pulled out of everything. Her success on clay last year CAME by 'taking the ball early'. Go look at the tape!

She's not sick, you're right. But if you've ever had mono, or pneumonia (I've had both) or any other serious viral lung infection, you know it takes a LONG time to get your endurance back. TEN double-faults weren't the result of using 'hardcourt technique'. That was FATIGUE.

You could see her body wasn't as tight as last year, she had no red clay tune-ups, and she's coming off an illness that anyone who's had it will tell you is hell on your conditioning.

All that said, Tathiana Garbin won, Justine lost, straight up. But pretending that Justine being under-prepared and under-conditioned had nothing to do with this loss makes you look like an idiot. And judging from your 'analysis' you aren't one. You just REALLY dislike Henin-Hardenne. Here's a tip. I don't like her either. But it doesn't make me lie to myself, or anyone else.

Nice, nice, nice....but when Venus lost at the Oz this year, it was the end of the era...explain that one to me?!

Volcana
May 26th, 2004, 04:25 PM
Volcana,

I dont dislike her. But, I dont like her either. Definitely, fatigue is a factor but if she said she was set to play and at about 75 or 85% like she said, then she should have won this match at least. I insist she is overhyped because I am pretty sure that she wouldn't have won the U.S or the Australian had Serena (particularly) and Venus being around.But she did win them.

I guess in some ways, the issue is how hyped you think she is in the first. I live in the States, and very few tennis people I talk to here consider her the equal of either of the Williams sisters yet. They do, however, consider her better than everyone else, and closing in on Venus. And it's pretty hard to disagree with that assessment.

As for her saying she was 75-85%, if she hasn't TRIED playing after a lung infection, then she's no judge. I'm telling you, you start out thinking you're close to strong, and after an hour, your body just won't obey. It's a VERY frustrating process of recovery, because it takes so long. When I had pneumonia, I got up on a beautiful spring day and WALKED to the medical clinic, I felt so good. Two hours later, I was in the hospital. That was may. It was August before I could run 12 miles again, the way I had been doing pre-illness.

This isn't the match I expected her to lose. I expected her to play and lose to Zvonareva. Because I expected her to wear down, as she failed to recover from each successive match.

But again, look at the double-faults. That's fatigue. Some of those DF's put the 'u' in ugly. And she's double-faulted on break point at least twice!

If you want to say that, right this moment, she's a 2nd or 3rd tier player, you're right. But Venus was a 3rd tier player most of the winter. But she wasn't over-hyped. She just didn't have her game back.

Allez-H
May 26th, 2004, 04:28 PM
illness, my foot. Pure explanation of failure. Henin is overhyped. Simple. She has some good techniques but she is not all that like many claim she is. No matter her excuses, she should not have lost to Tatiana. It's makes me consider her a tier 2 or 3 player because she should have fared much better. Her overhyped forehand was a mess. That has always been her problem, and will remain until she makes adjustments. Her clay abilities, to me, have diminished, as you can tell throughout this year that in all her clay matches, she was taking too many balls early and mistiming wrongly like it's normally done on hardcourts. So, it's not sickness excuses like has been said, her improve techniques on hard have cost her some pain on clay in terms of timing and normal adjustments.
Are you f*cking dumb or what???
How can you overhype somebody who has won 18 tourneys,that include 3 Slams on different surfaces and who has been 30 weeks now on the worldnumber one spot.You just don't go and beat players like Serena,Kim,Jen,Amelie,Lindsay,...just like that.Justine has probably the most complete game out there together with Serena yet you say that she has a couple of good shots and that's it.Go watch some real tennis dude,cuz you sound like a pure rookie to me.If you don't know nada about this game than don't speak at all.How can you know that Justine has lost all her claycourtabilies since she barey played on clay this year.And the few matches she did play,she was clrealy just not ready.Yet she was capable of playing some great even phisically extremely diminished on not ready at all.Just go and watch the B&W matches.Look what she can do when not fit and healthy,just scares the hell out of me to think what she can can do when she is.

turt
May 26th, 2004, 04:32 PM
I totally agree with you Volcana.
I don't know if somebody noticed, but when Justine got broken and was 2-0 down in the second set, right after losing the point she made half-a-step to the net and then went back to get ready to receive. I really had the feeling she was about to shake hands! She looked so pissed off, it was almost like she knew at this very moment that she wouldn't win Roland Garros this year. Of course, she fought back and won the next 4 games, but retrospectively it looks like she tried to use her last bit of energy and fighting before falling horribly...

bandabou
May 26th, 2004, 04:35 PM
Yeah, I was like: the girl must really be out of sorts....completely forgot what the score was!

Eurotennisfan
May 26th, 2004, 04:37 PM
Justine lost because she was clearly NOT HEALTHY. Had Justine been healthy she would have won the match 6-2 6-1 in an hour and 10 minutes.
Good luck and good healthy to Justine for Wimbledon. Looking on the bright side this just might give her more time to practice on the grass for Wimbledon and often players that do poorly in one slam do great at the next!

MartinaI
May 26th, 2004, 04:38 PM
These responses are soooo predictable.

slice - That's a joke.

asotgod - I give you credit for at least the pretense at analsyis. However, your conclusions are inaccurate.

First "overhyped'. How overhyped can you be if you win three of the last four slams? And she beat Serena at RG last year, so it can't be laid to the absence of V&S.

Second "Her clay abilities, to me, have diminished". She played ONE clay court tournament since RG last year. ONE. She beat Safina, Martinez, Zvonareva and lost to Mauresmo! Then she was diagnosed ill and pulled out of everything. Her success on clay last year CAME by 'taking the ball early'. Go look at the tape!

She's not sick, you're right. But if you've ever had mono, or pneumonia (I've had both) or any other serious viral lung infection, you know it takes a LONG time to get your endurance back. TEN double-faults weren't the result of using 'hardcourt technique'. That was FATIGUE.

You could see her body wasn't as tight as last year, she had no red clay tune-ups, and she's coming off an illness that anyone who's had it will tell you is hell on your conditioning.

All that said, Tathiana Garbin won, Justine lost, straight up. But pretending that Justine being under-prepared and under-conditioned had nothing to do with this loss makes you look like an idiot. And judging from your 'analysis' you aren't one. You just REALLY dislike Henin-Hardenne. Here's a tip. I don't like her either. But it doesn't make me lie to myself, or anyone else.
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Thank you! Clay is the hardest surface to make a comeback on, match practice is essential. Sadly Justine did not have it, but hey she'll be back far stronger next year. Allez Juju, get well soon!

Eurotennisfan
May 26th, 2004, 04:39 PM
Venus Was At The Australian Open This Year

bandabou
May 26th, 2004, 04:43 PM
Venus Was At The Australian Open This Year

Same way Juju was at RG....just became the top seed to lose the earliest at the French...

asotgod
May 26th, 2004, 04:47 PM
Volcana,

Your point clearly understood and appreciated. Did not just expect her to lose to Tatiana. Thanks anyways.


Allezjuju,

Try to carry on a conversation without cursing. Try to show some decency. You dont have to let me know that you are "fucking dumb". It shows already from your conversation.

Allez-H
May 26th, 2004, 04:50 PM
Allezjuju,

Try to carry on a conversation without cursing. Try to show some decency. You dont have to let me know that you are "fucking dumb". It shows already from your conversation.
Asotgod,
Try to leave out all your hatingcomments and stay objective on all players even if you don't like them.You don't have to let me know you're a pure hater in every single thread of Justine.

asotgod
May 26th, 2004, 04:53 PM
Allezjuju,

Tell me what's there to hate about Henin? I cant see one. Maybe you are blinded to think she is attractive or her game is the best I have ever seen. But, I am not. I make my analysis. They may be right or wrong. You dont have to use "fucking dumb" when addressing people. That's just simple manners you have not learnt. So, learn to be decent and when you have, then maybe you will have something sensible to say.

Allez-H
May 26th, 2004, 04:59 PM
Allezjuju,

Tell me what's there to hate about Henin? I cant see one. Maybe you are blinded to think she is attractive or her game is the best I have ever seen. But, I am not. I make my analysis. They may be right or wrong. You dont have to use "fucking dumb" when addressing people. That's just simple manners you have not learnt. So, learn to be decent and when you have, then maybe you will have something sensible to say.
I'm sorry but I have had manners the whole I've been on this board but there are times when things just go right to your head.I'm getting tired of this bullshit...You made the same comments in the other thread I stayed shut,didn't say a thing.But you come and say the same bullshit it this thread.You don't have to be specialist to realise what a player Justine is.I'm not saying that she's the best ever but she simply does not get the respect she deserve from you and lots of other persons;

spartanfan
May 26th, 2004, 05:01 PM
The Hank knows what it takes to win a gs and she knew going into the first round that if she was fit or ready than she should'nt have played. If you step out on the court you go out to win.

Martian KC
May 26th, 2004, 05:04 PM
The Hank knows what it takes to win a gs and she knew going into the first round that if she was fit or ready than she should'nt have played. If you step out on the court you go out to win.

Do you follow tennis at all? Did you take in consideration she had a virus and didn't play for like a month?

Darn, I'm expecting too much out of you again! :mad:

shap_half
May 26th, 2004, 05:06 PM
Of course, of course....somehow if it was Serena who was in the same position and would have lost, dont thin youd have said this...

Yeah because you know me soo well. As I said before the competitive nature of players like Justine and Serena forces them to play when they shouldn't (ie. Serena at AI).

neuehorizonte
May 26th, 2004, 05:10 PM
I'd like to see you play world championship tennis after having a virus...

bandabou
May 26th, 2004, 05:12 PM
Yeah because you know me soo well. As I said before the competitive nature of players like Justine and Serena forces them to play when they shouldn't (ie. Serena at AI).


Aahh...so it only took Jujus loss today for you to realize that?! Glad you did though..

shap_half
May 26th, 2004, 05:14 PM
Just because I'm not vocal with my every thought doesn't mean I don't know.

bandabou
May 26th, 2004, 05:22 PM
Just because I'm not vocal with my every thought doesn't mean I don't know.

I see....cool.

Volcana
May 26th, 2004, 05:53 PM
Volcana,

Your point clearly understood and appreciated. Did not just expect her to lose to Tatiana. Thanks anyways.
Neither did I. Especially since Tatiana's forehand makes Venus' look consistent. (Sorry Vee.:))

dreamgoddess099
May 26th, 2004, 05:54 PM
I know Venus was in the Australian Open but that was after six months break. Henin just left for 6 weeks and cannot find her footing on her supposed best surface?
Yeah, Venus's third round Grandslam loss after a six month break doesn't look so bad now does it? Anyway, I never felt that Justine was going to win this year. She needed help just to win last year. That damn Karma is a bitch. BTW, didn't Elena D. have like 18 DFs in her match but still won? Anyway, get better Justine.

dreamgoddess099
May 26th, 2004, 05:56 PM
Neither did I. Especially since Tatiana's forehand makes Venus' look consistent. (Sorry Vee.:)) :lol: You better leave my girl alone.

DA FOREHAND
May 26th, 2004, 06:05 PM
Or did it? This isn't Tatiana's first win against justine.

DA FOREHAND
May 26th, 2004, 06:11 PM
But she did win them.

I guess in some ways, the issue is how hyped you think she is in the first. I live in the States, and very few tennis people I talk to here consider her the equal of either of the Williams sisters yet. They do, however, consider her better than everyone else, and closing in on Venus. And it's pretty hard to disagree with that assessment.

As for her saying she was 75-85%, if she hasn't TRIED playing after a lung infection, then she's no judge. I'm telling you, you start out thinking you're close to strong, and after an hour, your body just won't obey. It's a VERY frustrating process of recovery, because it takes so long. When I had pneumonia, I got up on a beautiful spring day and WALKED to the medical clinic, I felt so good. Two hours later, I was in the hospital. That was may. It was August before I could run 12 miles again, the way I had been doing pre-illness.

This isn't the match I expected her to lose. I expected her to play and lose to Zvonareva. Because I expected her to wear down, as she failed to recover from each successive match.

But again, look at the double-faults. That's fatigue. Some of those DF's put the 'u' in ugly. And she's double-faulted on break point at least twice!

If you want to say that, right this moment, she's a 2nd or 3rd tier player, you're right. But Venus was a 3rd tier player most of the winter. But she wasn't over-hyped. She just didn't have her game back.

In my eyes she has to beat Venus at least five more times to be "closing in" on her. :wavey:

Andy T
May 26th, 2004, 06:25 PM
More words of wisdom from Volcana. Just as Venus took some time to find her stride after the comeback and just as Serena is doing the same right now, J2H is going to need more time now she's back and the same will be true for Kimmy Clitoris. Isn't it weird how quickly we've gone from fit Belgians and injured Williams sisters to fitter Williams sisters and ailing Belgians? I just wish they'd all be fit at the same time for once and we could watch the fireworks fly.

Volcana
May 26th, 2004, 06:34 PM
I'm sorry but I have had manners the whole I've been on this board but there are times when things just go right to your head.I'm getting tired of this bullshit...You made the same comments in the other thread I stayed shut,didn't say a thing. But you come and say the same bullshit it this thread.You don't have to be specialist to realise what a player Justine is.I'm not saying that she's the best ever but she simply does not get the respect she deserve from you and lots of other persons;
I understand you're a bit upset, and JH2 is a fave of yours, but asotgod made some good points. I assume you didn't read the whole thread before you responded, because asotgod proved quite willing to have a reasonable discussion, even though we both stated off making pretty strong comments.

Cybelle Darkholme
May 26th, 2004, 06:34 PM
2001--Semis
2002--is ill, and crashes first round (and she could have prevented a Serena Slam, as she was in the quarter there. Given JHH's success against Serena on clay, that could have changed history)
2003--Wins
2004--Ill, and crashes in second round
I am sorry but stop with the excuses. Garbin outplayed her. Garbin won. If justine was so ill she would not have played the match. If she played she obviously believed she could win. She didnt'

I knew the girl wouldnt go far. I also knew when I saw the draw that momo would have a "catwalk" to the final if only her nerves hold up.

That is the big question to me.

Now we will see a new french open finalists! Who will be on the lower half though?

DA FOREHAND
May 26th, 2004, 06:36 PM
Garbin -v- jhh head-to-head...2-1 Garbin. This isn't the first time Garbin has beaten justine, why are people so shocked?

Filip!
May 26th, 2004, 06:37 PM
So its like: one big, one bad, one big, one bad?! Hmmm...so much for being a clay-courter.

You don't have any respect!

As a Williams-fan, you should know what being ill or being injured means for a player.

Rocketta
May 26th, 2004, 07:03 PM
Aren't these the same people that complain about haters being on full force whenever the willies lose?:o
actually they aren't....

Slice isn't a Williams fan and asotgod just joined the board? So to answer that question, NO.