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View Full Version : Who are the 10 Greatest Hardcourters of the Open Era


MrSerenaWilliams
May 4th, 2004, 11:20 PM
In your opinions, who are the top ten greatest harcourt players of the Open Era?

Here are my pics:

Steffi Graf
Margaret Court
Martina Navratilova
Monica Seles
Chris Evert
Serena Williams
Martina Hingis
Venus Williams
Lindsay Davenport
Jennifer Capriati

LindsayRocks89
May 4th, 2004, 11:21 PM
looks like a pretty good list to me, i think maybe also we could have Jen in that list

bigshow21
May 4th, 2004, 11:25 PM
looks like a pretty good list to me, i think maybe also we could have Jen in that list


Maybe?????........u mean MOST DEFINATELY!!!!!! :worship: :worship: She is awesome and is #1 in my book!!! :) :) :) :worship: :worship:

Snuffkin
May 4th, 2004, 11:37 PM
In your opinions, who are the top ten greatest harcourt players of the Open Era?

Here are my pics:

Steffi Graf
Margaret Court
Martina Navratilova
Monica Seles
Chris Evert
Serena Williams
Martina Hingis
Venus Williams
Lindsay Davenport

Interesting list, but you still have one place available. You said the top 10, but that's only 9. So, who's deserved of the final spot?

MrSerenaWilliams
May 4th, 2004, 11:42 PM
Interesting list, but you still have one place available. You said the top 10, but that's only 9. So, who's deserved of the final spot?
Thanks for that!
I fixed it! GO JENNY!

Pureracket
May 4th, 2004, 11:42 PM
I'm VERY serious when I say that you should take a look @ Amy Frazier's results when you start talking about hardcourt specialists.

Andy T
May 5th, 2004, 12:15 AM
In your opinions, who are the top ten greatest harcourt players of the Open Era?

Here are my pics:

Steffi Graf
Margaret Court
Martina Navratilova
Monica Seles
Chris Evert
Serena Williams
Martina Hingis
Venus Williams
Lindsay Davenport
Jennifer Capriati

Much harder than grass because there were no hardcourt slams until 78 (US) and two from 88 (Aus)

So, excluding King, Court, Wade and Goolagong:

Seles
Navratilova
Graf
Evert
Serena Williams
Martina Hingis
Jennifer Capriati
Lindsay Davenport
Venus Williams
Tracy Austin

Honourable mention to: Justine Hénin, Gaby Sabatini, Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario
Mary Pierce.

Steffica Greles
May 5th, 2004, 12:23 AM
Without enough knowledge of King or Court on hard courts (except for the fact I know they each won the US Open)...


1. Steffi Graf
2. Martina Navratilova
3. Chris Evert
4. Monica Seles
5. Venus Williams
6. Lindsay Davenport
7. Serena Williams
8. Martina Hingis
9. Aranxta Sanchez-Vicario
10. Gabriela Sabatini
Other mentions to Tracy Austin, who I don't feel had enough longevity, Mary Pierce who is too inconsistent to get in the top 10 of any list, surely? Hana Mandlikova for her magnificent triumph in 1985, and of course the two players named at the top of the page.

Very difficult, this. I'm sure if I studied hard I'd have to revise it. But, off the top of my head...

MLF
May 5th, 2004, 12:36 AM
Arantxa Sanchez Vicario has a US Open title, two Miami titles and a Canadian Open title beating Graf in the finals for three of those.

Tracy Austin landed two US Open titles by the age of 17 and won loads of hardcourt titles. Both Arantxa and Tracy should be on any top 10 hardcourt list especially ahead of Capriati & Henin Hardenne ( both of whom may eventually surpass them ).

My ten would feature in no order :

Martina Navratilova
Monica Seles
Steffi Graf
Chris Evert
Tracy Austin
Lindsay Davenport
Arantxa Sanchez Vicario
Serena Williams
Venus Williams
Hana Mandlikova
I would have to check out Court & King's records more thoroughly. One of them may get in at the expense of Hana.

~VaMoS~ArAnTxA~
May 5th, 2004, 12:55 AM
Litle question for Mrserenawilliams... Where is Arantxa? LOL She was such a great player on hard too... She won the US Open once, one time finalist, she took part in every Canadian Opens finals in Montreal from 1992 to 1998, winning both 1992 and 1994 over Seles and Graf...She really has her place! The only surface she was a little bit shaky is indoor...and she's wasn't so bad on that either... ;)

Vamos Arantxa!

MrSerenaWilliams
May 5th, 2004, 01:18 AM
Litle question for Mrserenawilliams... Where is Arantxa? LOL She was such a great player on hard too... She won the US Open once, one time finalist, she took part in every Canadian Opens finals in Montreal from 1992 to 1998, winning both 1992 and 1994 over Seles and Graf...She really has her place! The only surface she was a little bit shaky is indoor...and she's wasn't so bad on that either... ;)

Vamos Arantxa!
All of the players on this list have won more than one hardcourt slam. Although Aranxta is a great hardcourter, I wouldn't put her in MY top ten although she may very well be in yours. If I had an honorable mention list, she'd be at the top!

MAURO
May 5th, 2004, 01:23 AM
Interesting list, but you still have one place available. You said the top 10, but that's only 9. So, who's deserved of the final spot?
the number ten is for Sabatini
USOPEN 90 and titles, F and SF in hardcourt

IN CARPET TWO MASTERS

Volcana
May 5th, 2004, 01:40 AM
Some of these picks are wierd. How can Capriati be on that list, and Hana Mandlikova isn't? For that matter, how can any US Open champion who's also a multiple GS winner be not on the list and Jenn is? Where's Arantxa?

Philbo
May 5th, 2004, 01:49 AM
Arantxa Sanchez Vicario has a US Open title, two Miami titles and a Canadian Open title beating Graf in the finals for three of those.

Tracy Austin landed two US Open titles by the age of 17 and won loads of hardcourt titles. Both Arantxa and Tracy should be on any top 10 hardcourt list especially ahead of Capriati & Henin Hardenne ( both of whom may eventually surpass them ).

My ten would feature in no order :

Martina Navratilova
Monica Seles
Steffi Graf
Chris Evert
Tracy Austin
Lindsay Davenport
Arantxa Sanchez Vicario
Serena Williams
Venus Williams
Hana Mandlikova
I would have to check out Court & King's records more thoroughly. One of them may get in at the expense of Hana.
Id certainly agree with your Top 4, but I would have to put Hingis in there above Mandlikova and I would have Austin down near # 10...Hingis won the Aus Open 3 times str8, won the US Open, plus heaps of Tier 1's...I think she has a better hardcourt career than Mandlikova and Austin..

My top 10 would be:

1)Martina Navratilova
2) Monica Seles
3)Steffi Graf
4) Chris Evert
5) Serena Williams
6) Martina Hingis
7) Venus Williams
8) Lindsay Davenport
9)Tracey Austin
10) Arantxa Sanchez

tommyk75
May 5th, 2004, 02:35 AM
This is a tough, especially for the three-way battle for the number two spot (Chris, Evert, & Monica). But anyways, here's my list.

1) Steffi Graf
2) Martina Navratilova
3) Monica Seles
4) Chris Evert
5) Margaret Court (5 U.S. Open titles)
6) Billie Jean King (4 U.S. Open titles)
7) Maria Bueno (4 U.S. Open titles)
8) Martina Hingis
9) Serena Williams
10) Venus Williams

Lindsay Davenport would be No. 11, followed closely by Hana & Aranxta.

charmedRic
May 5th, 2004, 02:46 AM
WIN LOSS RATIO STANDING NAME NAT TOURNS

AS OF: May 03, 2004

Singles Hard Court Career - Top 100

With 25 or more tournaments

.906 1 STEFFI GRAF 35 GER 339 199

.889 2 VIRAG NEMETH 1 HUN 8 30

.888 3 MARTINA NAVRATILOVA 17 USA 135 149

.859 4 CHRIS EVERT 19 USA 116 75

.853 5 SERENA WILLIAMS 26 USA 151 75

.845 6 VENUS WILLIAMS 37 USA 202 111

.841 7 MONICA SELES 59 USA 311 184

.839 8 MARTINA HINGIS 49 SUI 255 148

.800 9 PETRA CETKOVSKA 2 CZE 8 29

.797 10 KIM CLIJSTERS 40 BEL 157 108

.791 11 NA LI 24 CHN 91 44

.791 12 JUSTINE HENIN-HARDENNE 42 BEL 159 113

.790 13 LINDSAY DAVENPORT 94 USA 354 219

.786 14 KAROLINA SPREM 12 CRO 44 54

.786 15 MAITE MARTINEZ 3 ESP 11 36

bandabou
May 5th, 2004, 10:55 AM
How can Serena be so low on the lists?! Two-time u.s.open winner, three-time nasdaq champion, two-time IW champion ( could have been more if not for...) and she´s only 22!! That´s more than many people on the list have achieved.

Ryan
May 5th, 2004, 12:39 PM
How can Serena be so low on the lists?! Two-time u.s.open winner, three-time nasdaq champion, two-time IW champion ( could have been more if not for...) and she´s only 22!! That´s more than many people on the list have achieved.

Because all of the people above her have won more grand slams. The lists will change by the time Serena's retired, but this is a list about NOW. It makes no sense to make a list based on "what serena WILL achieve".


Plus, I'm assuming that in Hardcourts we're including rebound ace? If we are, then I believe Hingis is tied with Serena.

Hingis:
4 slams
5 other Finals
3 sydney's
2 Miami's
1 IW
2 Canadian's
San Diego/Stanford (one, or both cant remember)

Serena:(please correct if wrong, which it most likely is)

3 slams
0 other Finals
3 Miami's
2 IW's
1 Canadian

Is that all? From this list, Hingis has a better hardcourt career title and grandslam wise.

Vincent
May 5th, 2004, 12:43 PM
Because all of the people above her have won more grand slams. The lists will change by the time Serena's retired, but this is a list about NOW. It makes no sense to make a list based on "what serena WILL achieve".


Plus, I'm assuming that in Hardcourts we're including rebound ace? If we are, then I believe Hingis is tied with Serena.

Hingis:
4 slams
5 other Finals
3 sydney's
2 Miami's
1 IW
2 Canadian's
San Diego/Stanford (one, or both cant remember)

Serena:(please correct if wrong, which it most likely is)

3 slams
0 other Finals
3 Miami's
2 IW's
1 Canadian

Is that all? From this list, Hingis has a better hardcourt career title and grandslam wise.Martina rocks! :dance:

Andy T
May 5th, 2004, 12:45 PM
This is a tough, especially for the three-way battle for the number two spot (Chris, Evert, & Monica). But anyways, here's my list.

1) Steffi Graf
2) Martina Navratilova
3) Monica Seles
4) Chris Evert
5) Margaret Court (5 U.S. Open titles)
6) Billie Jean King (4 U.S. Open titles)
7) Maria Bueno (4 U.S. Open titles)
8) Martina Hingis
9) Serena Williams
10) Venus Williams

Lindsay Davenport would be No. 11, followed closely by Hana & Aranxta.

Up to 1974, the US Open was played on grass so all of King's, Bueno's and Court's victories were on that surface. 1975-77 it was played on green clay, so Evert has 3 hardcourt victories at the open (78-80-82) and and 3 finals (79-83-84).

bandabou
May 5th, 2004, 12:55 PM
Because all of the people above her have won more grand slams. The lists will change by the time Serena's retired, but this is a list about NOW. It makes no sense to make a list based on "what serena WILL achieve".


Plus, I'm assuming that in Hardcourts we're including rebound ace? If we are, then I believe Hingis is tied with Serena.

Hingis:
4 slams
5 other Finals
3 sydney's
2 Miami's
1 IW
2 Canadian's
San Diego/Stanford (one, or both cant remember)

Serena:(please correct if wrong, which it most likely is)

3 slams
0 other Finals
3 Miami's
2 IW's
1 Canadian

Is that all? From this list, Hingis has a better hardcourt career title and grandslam wise.

O.k...so this includes rebound ace too?!

Ryan
May 5th, 2004, 01:07 PM
O.k...so this includes rebound ace too?!

I *thought* so initially, but I think most people aren't including it. If it's strictly hardcourts besides rebound ace then Serena is ahead of Hingis, but not too too high on the list.

bandabou
May 5th, 2004, 02:45 PM
I *thought* so initially, but I think most people aren't including it. If it's strictly hardcourts besides rebound ace then Serena is ahead of Hingis, but not too too high on the list.

Only four or five players can lay claim to be ahead of her: Martina N, Chris, Steffi and Monica...after that her results measure up to anybody´s.

tommyk75
May 5th, 2004, 02:48 PM
Thanks for the info, Andy T!

morbidangle
May 5th, 2004, 03:27 PM
1. Graf
2. Court
3. Evert
4. Navratilova
5. BJK
6. Seles
7. Hingis
8. Serena
9. Venus
10. Arantxa

Ryan
May 5th, 2004, 09:57 PM
Only four or five players can lay claim to be ahead of her: Martina N, Chris, Steffi and Monica...after that her results measure up to anybody´s.
On strictly "american" hardcourts? I might rate Venus above Serena. They both have 2 wins, Vee has an extra final, 3? Miami's as well (might be 2?) and much more titles than Serena.

LindsayRulez
May 5th, 2004, 10:23 PM
I would put Lindsay higher on that list, seeing as she has the most hardcourt wins out of everyone.

bandabou
May 5th, 2004, 10:40 PM
On strictly "american" hardcourts? I might rate Venus above Serena. They both have 2 wins, Vee has an extra final, 3? Miami's as well (might be 2?) and much more titles than Serena.

hmm....bunch of new havens. If Serena played tier III´s she´d have more titles too.

DA FOREHAND
May 5th, 2004, 10:43 PM
Much harder than grass because there were no hardcourt slams until 78 (US) and two from 88 (Aus)

So, excluding King, Court, Wade and Goolagong:

Seles
Navratilova
Graf
Evert
Serena Williams
Martina Hingis
Jennifer Capriati
Lindsay Davenport
Venus Williams
Tracy Austin

Honourable mention to: Justine Hénin, Gaby Sabatini, Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario
Mary Pierce.
Seles greater than Graf on a hardcourt? You are a hoot. Monica never beat Steffi on a fast hardcourt...Rebound Ace isn't a hardcourt.


Steffi
Martina
Evert
S.Williams
V-Williams
Seles
Court

DA FOREHAND
May 5th, 2004, 10:45 PM
1. Graf
2. Court
3. Evert
4. Navratilova
5. BJK
6. Seles
7. Hingis
8. Serena
9. Venus
10. Arantxa


I like your list, but sorry no way in hell Hingis is a better hardcourt player than either Williams sister...you' re also missing Lindsay Davenport.

MrSerenaWilliams
May 5th, 2004, 10:46 PM
Some of these picks are wierd. How can Capriati be on that list, and Hana Mandlikova isn't? For that matter, how can any US Open champion who's also a multiple GS winner be not on the list and Jenn is? Where's Arantxa?
What about the Australian Open? Which she defended BTW.

DA FOREHAND
May 5th, 2004, 10:47 PM
What about the Australian Open? Which she defended BTW.
Not a hardcourt....

SerenaSlam
May 5th, 2004, 10:54 PM
if you are talking of their "greatness" on a hardcourt, than personally i think serena needs to be above everyone. if necessary you can put an exception in here for Steffi, but out of the all time top for, Serena has more wins on the hardcourts than everyone except for Steffi.

Id Say it goes

Steffi
Serena
Monica
Venus
Martina h
Martina N
Chrissy
Lindsay
Jen
Aranxta

I don't think billie or margaret could be great compared to others being great on the surface.

CJ07
May 5th, 2004, 11:01 PM
Venus has more titles than Serena on Hardcourts
I think its around 25 to 18 or something like that
1. Steffi
2. Monica
3. Martina N.
4. Venus Williams
5. Chris Evert
6. Serena Williams
7. Martina Hingis
8. Lindsay Davenport
9. Arantxa-Sanchez-Vicario
10. BJK

DA FOREHAND
May 5th, 2004, 11:11 PM
Venus has more titles than Serena on Hardcourts
I think its around 25 to 18 or something like that
1. Steffi
2. Monica
3. Martina N.
4. Venus Williams
5. Chris Evert
6. Serena Williams
7. Martina Hingis
8. Lindsay Davenport
9. Arantxa-Sanchez-Vicario
10. BJK


If you're using number of hc titles as the main criteria for rankings I'm sure Monica wouldn't be ranked #2.

Ryan
May 6th, 2004, 01:34 AM
Not a hardcourt....

Yes, it actually IS considered a hardcourt. Just a slower one.

QUEENLINDSAY
May 6th, 2004, 05:34 AM
This is a tough, especially for the three-way battle for the number two spot (Chris, Evert, & Monica). But anyways, here's my list.

1) Steffi Graf
2) Martina Navratilova
3) Monica Seles
4) Chris Evert
5) Margaret Court (5 U.S. Open titles)
6) Billie Jean King (4 U.S. Open titles)
7) Maria Bueno (4 U.S. Open titles)
8) Martina Hingis
9) Serena Williams
10) Venus Williams

Lindsay Davenport would be No. 11, followed closely by Hana & Aranxta.Lindsay won US Open and Aus Open!!!! Plus numerous california hardcourts she won consecutively!!!!!!!! She has most of her titles on hardcourt better than any of your list!!!!!

Knizzle
May 6th, 2004, 05:40 AM
Lindsay won US Open and Aus Open!!!! Plus numerous california hardcourts she won consecutively!!!!!!!! She has most of her titles on hardcourt better than any of your list!!!!!
Venus is better on hardcourts, no doubt. Check the records.

QUEENLINDSAY
May 6th, 2004, 05:42 AM
Venus is better on hardcourts, no doubt. Check the records.
You check the record, I'll give you one for Lindsay summer of 1998 hardcourt season!!!!

Knizzle
May 6th, 2004, 05:59 AM
You check the record, I'll give you one for Lindsay summer of 1998 hardcourt season!!!!
Venus has .841 winning percentage on HC
Lindsay has .799

Venus has 22 HC titles
LD has 22 HC titles

I don't even have to look at tournament winning percentages to tell you that Venus has won a higher percentage of HC tourneys per tournament played. Not to mention how Venus dominated the summer hardcourts for 3 years.

QUEENLINDSAY
May 6th, 2004, 06:16 AM
Venus

Winner (31): 2004 - Charleston, Warsaw;
2003 - Antwerp;
2002 - Gold Coast, Paris Indoors, Antwerp, Amelia Island, Stanford, San Diego, New Haven;
2001 - US Open, Wimbledon, Miami, Hamburg, San Diego, New Haven; 2000 - Wimbledon, US Open, Olympics, Stanford, San Diego, New Haven; 1999 - Oklahoma City, Miami, Hamburg, Rome, New Haven, Zurich;
1998 - Oklahoma City, Miami, Grand Slam Cup.

Outdoor Hard=18
Indoor Hard=2
Total= 20


Lindsay

Winner (40):
2004 - Tokyo [Pan Pacific], Amelia Island;
2003 - Tokyo [Pan Pacific];
2001 - Tokyo [Pan Pacific], Scottsdale, Eastbourne, Los Angeles, Filderstadt, Zurich, Linz;
2000 - Australian Open, Indian Wells, Linz, Philadelphia;
1999 - Wimbledon, Season-Ending Championships, Sydney, Madrid, Stanford, Tokyo [Princess Cup], Philadelphia;
1998 - US Open, Tokyo [Pan Pacific], Stanford, San Diego, Los Angeles, Zurich;
1997 - Oklahoma City, Indian Wells, Amelia Island, Atlanta, Zurich, Chicago;
1996 - Olympics, Strasbourg, Los Angeles;
1995 - Strasbourg;
1994 - Brisbane, Lucerne;
1993 - European Open.

Outdoor Hard=15
Indoor Hard= 8
hard(unsure indoor or outdoor)=3
total= 26

Venus is one one the great on hard court and I'm not saying she is bad. But for sure Davenport had the better record so far on hardcourt. Besides Lindsay won on all three hardcourt conditions ( indoor,outdoor and rebound ace) US, AO and indoor hardcourt dominance as a sample. Venus only dominates on outdoor hardcourt.

Jericho
May 6th, 2004, 06:40 AM
should you count indoor hardcourt as hardcourt???

bandabou
May 6th, 2004, 10:14 AM
Lindsay is great but she isn´t dominating.....you know she had her one big run in ´98, but both Serena and Venus have been doing that for YEARS now. Gotta count for something. Lindsay´s losing to Justine, Kim, on hardcourts. See Serena or Venus doing that?!

Knizzle
May 6th, 2004, 01:38 PM
Venus

Winner (31): 2004 - Charleston, Warsaw;
2003 - Antwerp;
2002 - Gold Coast, Paris Indoors, Antwerp, Amelia Island, Stanford, San Diego, New Haven;
2001 - US Open, Wimbledon, Miami, Hamburg, San Diego, New Haven; 2000 - Wimbledon, US Open, Olympics, Stanford, San Diego, New Haven; 1999 - Oklahoma City, Miami, Hamburg, Rome, New Haven, Zurich;
1998 - Oklahoma City, Miami, Grand Slam Cup.

Outdoor Hard=18
Indoor Hard=2
Total= 20


Lindsay

Winner (40):
2004 - Tokyo [Pan Pacific], Amelia Island;
2003 - Tokyo [Pan Pacific];
2001 - Tokyo [Pan Pacific], Scottsdale, Eastbourne, Los Angeles, Filderstadt, Zurich, Linz;
2000 - Australian Open, Indian Wells, Linz, Philadelphia;
1999 - Wimbledon, Season-Ending Championships, Sydney, Madrid, Stanford, Tokyo [Princess Cup], Philadelphia;
1998 - US Open, Tokyo [Pan Pacific], Stanford, San Diego, Los Angeles, Zurich;
1997 - Oklahoma City, Indian Wells, Amelia Island, Atlanta, Zurich, Chicago;
1996 - Olympics, Strasbourg, Los Angeles;
1995 - Strasbourg;
1994 - Brisbane, Lucerne;
1993 - European Open.

Outdoor Hard=15
Indoor Hard= 8
hard(unsure indoor or outdoor)=3
total= 26

Venus is one one the great on hard court and I'm not saying she is bad. But for sure Davenport had the better record so far on hardcourt. Besides Lindsay won on all three hardcourt conditions ( indoor,outdoor and rebound ace) US, AO and indoor hardcourt dominance as a sample. Venus only dominates on outdoor hardcourt.
You have your facts ALL twisted. The stats I gave you were correct. Lucerne is on clay, Philadelphia is on carpet, Linz X2 is on carpet. So LD only has 22 HC titles indoor included.

For Venus Antwerp x2 is also on indoor hardcourt so that makes 22 titles for her also. Don't come here with your bogus stats trying to make LD look better cause it's just not true.

SJW
May 6th, 2004, 01:47 PM
Steffi
Martina N
Chrissy
Serena
Monica
Martina H
Venus
Tracy Austin
Linzi Davenport
ASV

QUEENLINDSAY
May 6th, 2004, 03:55 PM
You have your facts ALL twisted. The stats I gave you were correct. Lucerne is on clay, Philadelphia is on carpet, Linz X2 is on carpet. So LD only has 22 HC titles indoor included.

For Venus Antwerp x2 is also on indoor hardcourt so that makes 22 titles for her also. Don't come here with your bogus stats trying to make LD look better cause it's just not true.
OMG!!!!Your making me laugh!!!!!:lol:

Antwerp is the one on carpet!!!! and Linz and Philadelpia are both indoor hardcourts!!!!!!!

Knizzle
May 6th, 2004, 05:15 PM
OMG!!!!Your making me laugh!!!!!:lol:

Antwerp is the one on carpet!!!! and Linz and Philadelpia are both indoor hardcourts!!!!!!!
When LD won those tourneys, they were on carpet.

SerenaSlam
May 6th, 2004, 05:23 PM
When LD won those tourneys, they were on carpet.
they dont wanna listen, b/c i remeber them both being on carpet, especially the one where she ended venus streak.

QUEENLINDSAY
May 6th, 2004, 05:35 PM
I watch that match too when Lindsay beat Venus on Philadelphia final and it was on a hardcourt!!!!!!

On the other hand, Antwerp was never played on hardcourt, It has been on carpet.

You completely amuses me!!!!!!!!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

bandabou
May 6th, 2004, 05:42 PM
No,no...amusing was the ´01 IW match between Serena and Lindsay. DANG!!

DA FOREHAND
May 6th, 2004, 06:18 PM
I watch that match too when Lindsay beat Venus on Philadelphia final and it was on a hardcourt!!!!!!

On the other hand, Antwerp was never played on hardcourt, It has been on carpet.

You completely amuses me!!!!!!!!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Philly is carpet! not a hardcourt. I was at the tournament last year.

Ryan
May 6th, 2004, 08:15 PM
lol, it would be very easy to solve this argument by checking the wtatour site, which I'm pretty sure has the surface listed.


But Lucerne IS most definately clay, and Lindsay won it in 94 and 93. I'm oging to look for Hingis' titles on hard just to see what they're like.

DA FOREHAND
May 6th, 2004, 08:19 PM
lol, it would be very easy to solve this argument by checking the wtatour site, which I'm pretty sure has the surface listed.


But Lucerne IS most definately clay, and Lindsay won it in 94 and 93. I'm oging to look for Hingis' titles on hard just to see what they're like.
Do that and check back with us...STAT!

SJW
May 6th, 2004, 08:20 PM
I watch that match too when Lindsay beat Venus on Philadelphia final and it was on a hardcourt!!!!!!

On the other hand, Antwerp was never played on hardcourt, It has been on carpet.

You completely amuses me!!!!!!!!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:Philly in 99 was carpet...honest :)

1999-11-08 Philadelphia Indoor Carpet SF Lindsay Davenport (USA)6-1 6-2

Ryan
May 6th, 2004, 08:22 PM
2002 - Sydney; Tokyo [Pan Pacific];
2001 - Sydney, Doha, Dubai;
2000 - Season-Ending Championships, Tokyo [Pan Pacific], Miami, Hamburg, ’s-Hertogenbosch, Canadian Open, Filderstadt, Zurich; Moscow;
1999 - Australian Open, Tokyo [Pan Pacific], Hilton Head, Berlin, San Diego, Canadian Open, Filderstadt;
1998 - Australian Open, Season-Ending Championships, Indian Wells, Hamburg, Rome;
1997 - Australian Open, Wimbledon, US Open, Sydney, Tokyo [Pan Pacific], Paris Indoors, Miami, Hilton Head, Stanford, San Diego, Filderstadt, Philadelphia;
1996 - Filderstadt, Oakland

Outdour HC: 15
Indoor HC: 9 (are Doha/Dubai indoor or outdoor?)

According to this, Hingis has 24 Hardcourt titles of various types. Now, I'm not sure about Oakland or Moscow, so if anyone knows then it would be appreciated.;)

spartanfan
May 6th, 2004, 08:22 PM
Don't forget Serenas USO final against Venus the first time where Venus won. (2001).

Ryan
May 6th, 2004, 08:23 PM
Philadelphia, PA, USA
November 1-7, 2004
Tier II
Prize Money: $585,000
Draw: 28M/32Q/16D
Surface: Hardcourt/Indoors
Tournament Directors: Barbara Perry/Peter Fishbach



Hmm, this says Philly is Indoor hardcourt.

SJW
May 6th, 2004, 08:24 PM
Philadelphia, PA, USA
November 1-7, 2004
Tier II
Prize Money: $585,000
Draw: 28M/32Q/16D
Surface: Hardcourt/Indoors
Tournament Directors: Barbara Perry/Peter Fishbach



Hmm, this says Philly is Indoor hardcourt.
it is now...but in 99 it was carpet :)

Ryan
May 6th, 2004, 08:25 PM
Moscow is also listed as Supreme/Indoors, so I'm assuming that means its carpet?

Ryan
May 6th, 2004, 08:25 PM
it is now...but in 99 it was carpet :)
Ok, thought as much.;)

SJW
May 6th, 2004, 08:28 PM
Ok, thought as much.;)
yup. it was indoor carpet until it stopped in 00, then it came back as hardcourt in 03 :)

SJW
May 6th, 2004, 08:37 PM
Philly is carpet! not a hardcourt. I was at the tournament last year.
you two got it the wrong way around :) Linzi beat Venus on carpet. it was hardcourt last year :)

DA FOREHAND
May 6th, 2004, 08:41 PM
you two got it the wrong way around :) Linzi beat Venus on carpet. it was hardcourt last year :)
K thanks.

DA FOREHAND
May 6th, 2004, 08:42 PM
Didnt' STEFFI give Hingis a bagel in 98, and then went on to defeat Lindsay in the final?

Knizzle
May 7th, 2004, 02:16 AM
Queen Lindsay is just trying (and failing) to somehow make LD look better than Venus on hardcourt.

Philbo
May 7th, 2004, 08:24 AM
if you are talking of their "greatness" on a hardcourt, than personally i think serena needs to be above everyone. if necessary you can put an exception in here for Steffi, but out of the all time top for, Serena has more wins on the hardcourts than everyone except for Steffi.

Id Say it goes

Steffi
Serena
Monica
Venus
Martina h
Martina N
Chrissy
Lindsay
Jen
Aranxta

I don't think billie or margaret could be great compared to others being great on the surface.
LOL @ Martina Hingis, Venus and Serena being ahead of martina Navratilova!! Shows your lack of intelligence/logic/knowledge...

Considering Navratilova still beat Steffi (your #1) at the US Open as a near-34 year old shows how laughable your joke of a list is!

Jakeev
May 7th, 2004, 01:09 PM
Well, if anything is true about this thread, it is the fact that Court and King do not really factor in this at all. They simply did not compete in as many hard-court events.

But it still made my own decision a little difficult so here it is:

1. Graf

2. Evert

3. Navratilova

4. Austin

5. Seles

6. V. Williams

7. Davenport

8. S. Williams

9. Hingis

10. Mandlikova

Ryan
May 7th, 2004, 05:59 PM
simce you have Seles at #5, are you counting Rebound Ace as hardcourt Jakeev?

R&J
May 7th, 2004, 10:10 PM
I am sorry but, Tracy Austin a better hardcourt player than Monica Seles?! LOL!

vs1
May 7th, 2004, 10:15 PM
I agree with R&J. Monica needs to be above Austin. In fact, I think Venus should be as well. But definitely Monica!!!