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View Full Version : Venus in the absence of the top tenners.


tennnisfannn
May 2nd, 2004, 09:12 AM
There is some curiosity as to how well venus is really playing considering that so far she hasn't had to play anyone in the top ten. She played dementieva in Miami lost that match in a third set tie break, meaning the difference wasn't so big. At the sametime it is also safe to say that Dementieva hasn't been playing to her ability this year, she made the finals to lose to a serena (who we still don't know how well she has shed the rust).
However Venus has played Vera twice who even though is not a top tenner is definitely playing better than some top tenners like Dementieva, Capriati and Ai.
I haven't seen enough of venus play to know how well she is playing but from her results she looks to be getting back in form.
Personally I don't believe that she has yet to reach the level of the Lindsays, belgians etc. This is because venus has always been good but was very rusty in the beginning of the year. It is not like how we sometimes have a player break out and have an incredible run and then run out of umph. (players like Schynder, maleeva,ai etc)
Though results remain to be seen so far I think venus is getting to the form of the top four, the top four themselves are struggling with injuries and health(justine) and that has evened things out.
Thoughs anyone?

spike83
May 2nd, 2004, 09:48 AM
I saw the match between Vera and Venus in Poland.
And I have to say: She's back and better than before here absence.
She showed Vera all the angles of the court.

MLF
May 2nd, 2004, 10:05 AM
Also her final two sets against Martinez in Charleston were very impressive. If Venus' movement is ok and not hampered then anyone will have problems with her right now. Plus she's only going to get better.

Foot_Fault
May 2nd, 2004, 10:34 AM
Also her final two sets against Martinez in Charleston were very impressive. If Venus' movement is ok and not hampered then anyone will have problems with her right now. Plus she's only going to get better.
I agree...and to be honest, it's not Venus' fault they lose or pull out before they reach her, she can only play who is in her draw.

Andy T
May 2nd, 2004, 10:43 AM
I agree that that its really hard to ascertain just where Venus is right now, tennisfannn because of the opposition she has/hasn't yet had to face. The Kuznetsova match will be the best indicator yet as Kuznetsova has met Justine a couple of times this season.

From Venus' perspective, I'd be jumping for joy at having had the opportunity to play through two clay court events without the other big guns. She's had the chance to adjust to red clay, play a lot of matches and build up her confidence without the obstacle of a major rival. She'll certainly go into RG as the best prepared contender.

tennisjunky
May 2nd, 2004, 11:23 AM
I agree that its really hard to gage where Venus is at, in comparison to the other top players, but I dont agree that her playing some random person ranked in the top ten is the best indicator of where she stands. Sugiyama is currently a top ten player but a win over Kuznetsova would be more impressive than a win over higher ranked Sugiyama. The fact that shes already the seventh highest ranked woman on the tour so far this year is a good indicator of how things are going for her. And I think playing someone like Kuznetsova or anyone else who has had a good year so far would help too. But with Venus you still cant tell because she can lose to someone like Barbara Schett one day then turn around the next week and crush Justine, sometimes she can be so schizo on the court.

Volcana
May 2nd, 2004, 01:06 PM
Who can say? She's cleaned up the NON- top ten players pretty effeciently. With luck she'll get to play Kim next week. That'll be good because when you look at Venus' Winners and UEs this week, it's clear she making sure to keep those errors down, and letting the other players pile them up. Against Kim, that'll just mean 50 shot rallies. Venus will HAVE to hit more winners.

Well, maybe. She just graciously accepted a 6-1 first set from Svetlana Kuznetsova. While hitting 9 winners with 8 UEs. Very conservative.

Knizzle
May 2nd, 2004, 01:16 PM
Venus owns just about everyone in the top ten so I think she'll be ok.

fammmmedspin
May 2nd, 2004, 01:17 PM
Her stats today are impressive - yesterday they were not good at all so it may depend how she rises on the day. She hasn't beaten a consistent experienced hard hitter yet.

Not sure Vera is better than Dementieva or Jen or Ai. Ai has consistency. Dementieva has weapons. Jen can come back quickly from being awful. Kuznetsova looks the real thing but she seems spent or injured by the finals and her stats today are worse than yesterday in so far as she is responsible for them.

Pureracket
May 2nd, 2004, 01:19 PM
Her stats today are impressive - yesterday they were not good at all so it may depend how she rises on the day. She hasn't beaten a consistent experienced hard hitter yet.

Not sure Vera is better than Dementieva or Jen or Ai. Ai has consistency. Dementieva has weapons. Jen can come back quickly from being awful. Kuznetsova looks the real thing but she seems spent or injured by the finals and her stats today are worse than yesterday in so far as she is responsible for them.:lol: :lol: :lol: Never fully convinced about Vee, eh? She does it all for you, ya' know. . . .:kiss:

tonee30
May 2nd, 2004, 01:23 PM
I do think Venus is back although she has really played a top-top player. Like one of the hard hitters. But really come on it's all mental at this point. She likes playing them, that's why she rarely looses to them. She owns winning records against them all. She's back and obviously serious about it. I'm soooooooooooo glad to see her out there and playing and serious. If she is, she can beat anyone. Next week should be a real good test, I hope to see her and Kim meet.

Experimentee
May 2nd, 2004, 01:23 PM
I think Venus is doing very well and should be beating the top tenners if she plays them. She beat Martinez very easily in the last 2 sets and Martinez had been playing very well, almost beating Justine. She also beat Kuznetsova who is playing like a top 10 player, and Vera, who is top 10 on clay.

Andy T
May 2nd, 2004, 01:26 PM
This result really does indicate that Venus is a major contender for the RG title. Well done!

charmedRic
May 2nd, 2004, 01:28 PM
I agree...and to be honest, it's not Venus' fault they lose or pull out before they reach her, she can only play who is in her draw.
Exactly! :)

I think she'll do better and better as each tournmaent progresses. By Wimbledone, everyone will be calling her Top Woman Contender.

Paneru
May 2nd, 2004, 01:29 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: Never fully convinced about Vee, eh? She does it all for you, ya' know. . . .:kiss:
:lol:

fammmmedspin
May 2nd, 2004, 01:35 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: Never fully convinced about Vee, eh? She does it all for you, ya' know. . . .:kiss:
It looks as if the test will have to be RG itself. I can't remember a time when all the top 3 players plus Serena, Myskina, Jen, Ai (and even Dementieva I think had a problem) were nursing injuries or illness so its not clear even what Berlin or Rome will tell us other than that. At present you can see Venus hobbling on one leg through that field but on the other hand you can see anyone else in the top 9 winning depending on who gets back fastest and who gets the giant killers in the early rounds.

Ballbuster
May 2nd, 2004, 01:39 PM
It doesn't matter.

The top Tenners will be Ill prepared to defeat Venus. Venus now has badly needed match play under her belt. We all have watched her struggle through March. She has Used APRIL as her grinding month. It has payed off.

She now has 2 back-to-back titles. They need to watch out for her, not the other way around.

moon
May 2nd, 2004, 01:44 PM
It doesn't matter.

The top Tenners will be Ill prepared to defeat Venus. Venus now has badly needed match play under her belt. We all have watched her struggle through March. She has Used APRIL as her grinding month. It has payed off.

She now has 2 back-to-back titles. They need to watch out for her, not the other way around.I agree completely. Venus has the match practice she needed to get back on the ball. The other top tenners now, do not have that. Plus, the last time they played Vee, she was not playing like she is now. This is the new and improved Venus. If she keeps playing like she is now, I see any of the top tenners she plays getting run down in the process, except maybe Serena (that might go to 3 ;) ). I can't wait for them to get back, so they can experience the new Vee.

bandabou
May 2nd, 2004, 01:47 PM
One thing I know....the more match play both Williamses get, the more the Belgian domination is gonna have to watch their backs!

Ballbuster
May 2nd, 2004, 01:51 PM
I agree completely. Venus has the match practice she needed to get back on the ball. The other top tenners now, do not have that. Plus, the last time they played Vee, she was not playing like she is now. This is the new and improved Venus. If she keeps playing like she is now, I see any of the top tenners she plays getting run down in the process, except maybe Serena (that might go to 3 ;) ). I can't wait for them to get back, so they can experience the new Vee.

Precisely, Now that Venus has Championship match play under her belt and her mental fortitude "seriously strong", along with her rythum for hitting the ball and her shot selection back......she can improve upon what she already has.

I see her evolving BEYOND her current level, (if she chose to) to a new level of competition. The same one that Serena elevated to in 2002. The choice is Venus.

jean_genie
May 2nd, 2004, 01:52 PM
I agree completely. Venus has the match practice she needed to get back on the ball. The other top tenners now, do not have that. Plus, the last time they played Vee, she was not playing like she is now. This is the new and improved Venus. If she keeps playing like she is now, I see any of the top tenners she plays getting run down in the process, except maybe Serena (that might go to 3 ;) ). I can't wait for them to get back, so they can experience the new Vee.
I second that Moon. Venus didn't have issues with the top ten before (except Serena) but the problem lately was she was losing to people she shouldn't, i.e. those like Lisa Raymond, Sveta (good try Sveta!) and Elena. Now that she's worked it out, I think EVERYONE else needs to be on the lookout. The matches against Conchi and Tina Pisnik where she saw a lot of different balls and matched power too have given Venus that match play she'll need against the Belgians and anyone else I think.

Infiniti2001
May 2nd, 2004, 01:53 PM
It looks as if the test will have to be RG itself. I can't remember a time when all the top 3 players plus Serena, Myskina, Jen, Ai (and even Dementieva I think had a problem) were nursing injuries or illness so its not clear even what Berlin or Rome will tell us other than that. At present you can see Venus hobbling on one leg through that field but on the other hand you can see anyone else in the top 9 winning depending on who gets back fastest and who gets the giant killers in the early rounds.

What rubbish!! Most of the absentee top 10 are nursing injuries. Are you trying to tell me that they can all pull a Serena (Nasdaq100) on a Venus who has the feel for the red clay when they come back? Venus has gotten herself in form again, so it's up to those who were away to adjust to the shitty red stuff. :tape:

Paneru
May 2nd, 2004, 01:54 PM
I agree completely. Venus has the match practice she needed to get back on the ball. The other top tenners now, do not have that. Plus, the last time they played Vee, she was not playing like she is now. This is the new and improved Venus. If she keeps playing like she is now, I see any of the top tenners she plays getting run down in the process, except maybe Serena (that might go to 3 ;) ). I can't wait for them to get back, so they can experience the new Vee.
ITA! :yeah:

Last time Vee played Clijsters she was in such pain and still won!
Also, she took a set off Serena last time they played and she was in pain.

Vee is definitely a force to be reckoned with,
especially if she continues on this path!

dreamgoddess099
May 2nd, 2004, 02:00 PM
Venus is or was ranked 13 and has two titles. There are players ranked inside the top ten who have none.

WF4EVER
May 2nd, 2004, 02:53 PM
Every time I see one of these threads I just have to LMFAO. Top-tenners, top-fivers, soon it will be No 1s, past and present.

It just seems to me some folks have to pass a freak*** kidneystone to give Venus a little credit for winning two titles in a row. It was tough after she won CHarleston; it must hurt like a bi*ch this week.

First of all Momo was the toptenner this week and she couldn't get past Schiavone; if she can't get past Schiavone how on earth can anyone consider a win over her a measuring stick.

Second of all Venus has had a very tough time coming back from injuries, losing some matches she would have won easier before her stomach injury. The mere fact that she was able to fight thru Charleston is a clear indication that she's feeling better and playing better. This week she was absolutely dominant save the first set she played this week, which she lost. In fact, today's finalist is the only player this week to come close to winning a second set off her again.

Third and IMO most important of all, Venus has always been considered the type of player who plays down to her opponent, therefore Venus has always had tougher matches against people ranked much lower than her. Venus has an excellent record against every top ten player except her sister and maybe Dementieva who was able to capitalize at Nasdaq on Venus' terrible form (and I say save ED also because they have played so few times as well).

Knizzle said it some time ago and I couldn't agree more: that Venus' success does not depend on whom she's playing but on how she's playing and how she feels about her game. WHen Venus is playing well and feeling confident the only person she'll stomach a loss to is Serena. For everyone else it's almost impossible.

Finally, all this talk about playing top-tenners and top-fivers is awfully funny, because if perchance Venus were to beat Kim, Justine, Capriati and Momo the next thing you'll be saying is that they're injured. So Venus is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. The story of her life.

I know it must really hurt to give Vee some credit but anyone who can win two clay court titles and FedCup in between on clay, which she hates so much, deserves even a teensy weensy bit of credit, even if her name is Williams.

Jericho
May 2nd, 2004, 03:50 PM
Venus is or was ranked 13 and has two titles. There are players ranked inside the top ten who have none.
:tape: :tape:

"Topaz"
May 2nd, 2004, 04:00 PM
Excellent post, WF4EVER.

It's high time we start considering how the top-tenners will do on clay against those Venus Just beat, and not how Venus will do against the top-tenners.

moby
May 3rd, 2004, 01:08 PM
Every time I see one of these threads I just have to LMFAO. Top-tenners, top-fivers, soon it will be No 1s, past and present.

It just seems to me some folks have to pass a freak*** kidneystone to give Venus a little credit for winning two titles in a row. It was tough after she won CHarleston; it must hurt like a bi*ch this week.

First of all Momo was the toptenner this week and she couldn't get past Schiavone; if she can't get past Schiavone how on earth can anyone consider a win over her a measuring stick.

Second of all Venus has had a very tough time coming back from injuries, losing some matches she would have won easier before her stomach injury. The mere fact that she was able to fight thru Charleston is a clear indication that she's feeling better and playing better. This week she was absolutely dominant save the first set she played this week, which she lost. In fact, today's finalist is the only player this week to come close to winning a second set off her again.

Third and IMO most important of all, Venus has always been considered the type of player who plays down to her opponent, therefore Venus has always had tougher matches against people ranked much lower than her. Venus has an excellent record against every top ten player except her sister and maybe Dementieva who was able to capitalize at Nasdaq on Venus' terrible form (and I say save ED also because they have played so few times as well).

Knizzle said it some time ago and I couldn't agree more: that Venus' success does not depend on whom she's playing but on how she's playing and how she feels about her game. WHen Venus is playing well and feeling confident the only person she'll stomach a loss to is Serena. For everyone else it's almost impossible.

Finally, all this talk about playing top-tenners and top-fivers is awfully funny, because if perchance Venus were to beat Kim, Justine, Capriati and Momo the next thing you'll be saying is that they're injured. So Venus is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. The story of her life.

I know it must really hurt to give Vee some credit but anyone who can win two clay court titles and FedCup in between on clay, which she hates so much, deserves even a teensy weensy bit of credit, even if her name is Williams.
then again, this sort of logic never applied to martina hingis when she was winning a slew of titles in 2000-2001...

calabar
May 3rd, 2004, 02:20 PM
So what is so magical about being in the top 10? Last week Venus was out of the top 10. Next week she will be within the top 10. Does anyone believes that it was easier to beat Venus last week than it will be next week, simply because her ranking changed?