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View Full Version : If Venus wins Warsaw, she WILL be the dominant clay court player on the tour


Volcana
May 1st, 2004, 04:11 PM
For the moment, that is. With the last three Roland Garros champs, plus another Roland Garros finalist in the top ten, she's obviously NOT the most accomplished clay courter going. Depending on how much weight you give Kims two RG finals, you could defend calling her only the sixth best clay courter around, accomplishments-wise.

But ....

Justine's out sick
Serena's pulled out of her last tournament
Jenn is having back trouble
Kim's coming off an injury
Conchi is well into her thirties, and not the threat on clay she was

The other winner of a Tier I or Teir II clay court tournament is ... Lindsay Davenport.

Dominance is, ultimately, not 'who's the best?', but rather 'who's doing the winning?'

If the match was tomorrow, I'd take Venus over anyone in the top ten on red clay. Henin-Hardenne is just off a sick bed and has only returned to practice. Hopefully, she'll be in full form by Roland Garros. But she certainly couldn't beat Venus tomorrow. All the real good red clay top tenners are racked up.

Of course, there's no certainty that this scenario even plays out. We all know who won the last time Venus Williams and Svetlana Kuznetsova played. So But props to TeeRexx on prescience. He wrote 'A good performance at Warsaw ...' and, regardless of the outcome tomorrow, this is certainly a 'good performance'.

"Topaz"
May 1st, 2004, 04:21 PM
Huh! The non-Williams fans will fume now.

Volcana
May 1st, 2004, 04:24 PM
Huh! The non-Williams fans will fume now.
Why? Kim an Jenn are both playing Berlin. If either of them win, this whole 'dominance' thing goes out the window. Not to mention Kuznetsova could make the whole issue moot.

Knizzle
May 1st, 2004, 04:26 PM
Please delete this thread. :yeah:

Volcana
May 1st, 2004, 04:29 PM
Please delete this thread. :yeah:
That feature seems to be temporarily disabled. I'll try again after the finals.:)

Knizzle
May 1st, 2004, 04:31 PM
That feature seems to be temporarily disabled. I'll try again after the finals.:)
:haha: :haha:

TeeRexx
May 1st, 2004, 05:05 PM
For the moment, that is. With the last three Roland Garros champs, plus another Roland Garros finalist in the top ten, she's obviously NOT the most accomplished clay courter going. Depending on how much weight you give Kims two RG finals, you could defend calling her only the sixth best clay courter around, accomplishments-wise.

But ....

Justine's out sick
Serena's pulled out of her last tournament
Jenn is having back trouble
Kim's coming off an injury
Conchi is well into her thirties, and not the threat on clay she was

The other winner of a Tier I or Teir II clay court tournament is ... Lindsay Davenport.

Dominance is, ultimately, not 'who's the best?', but rather 'who's doing the winning?'

If the match was tomorrow, I'd take Venus over anyone in the top ten on red clay. Henin-Hardenne is just off a sick bed and has only returned to practice. Hopefully, she'll be in full form by Roland Garros. But she certainly couldn't beat Venus tomorrow. All the real good red clay top tenners are racked up.

Of course, there's no certainty that this scenario even plays out. We all know who won the last time Venus Williams and Svetlana Kuznetsova played. So But props to TeeRexx on prescience. He wrote 'A good performance at Warsaw ...' and, regardless of the outcome tomorrow, this is certainly a 'good performance'.
A fine thread and post and thanks for recognition of my precognative abilities. :eek: :cool:

Go VENUS!

veera
May 1st, 2004, 05:56 PM
Please delete this thread. :yeah:

:worship:
Seriously.

harloo
May 1st, 2004, 06:23 PM
Conchi is well into her thirties, and not the threat on clay she was

hmmmmm.... conchita not a threat on clay? did not the world's number one have to save match points against the great conchi a few tournies back?


Go Venus!!

Volcana
May 1st, 2004, 06:49 PM
[QUOTE=harloo]Conchita not a threat on clay? did not the world's number one have to save match points against the great conchi a few tournies back?
[QUOTE]

Read me well

"... not the threat on clay she was"

SHE was. As in SEVEN Tier I titles on clay. Three straight years in the RG semis. From 1989 - 2000, Conchi only finished out of the year-end top ten twice. And those two years she was #11 and #12.

But she hasn't won a tournament in four YEARS. Conchi is good, but is she the threat on clay that SHE was, from say 1989 to 2000. Not even close.

SJW
May 1st, 2004, 06:53 PM
Please delete this thread. :yeah:
.......PLEASE :dance:

KoOlMaNsEaN
May 1st, 2004, 06:54 PM
we cannot say who will be or is the dominant clay court player until Berlin and Rome finish.

Volcana
May 1st, 2004, 06:56 PM
we cannot say who will be or is the dominant clay court player until Berlin and Rome finish.
Note the first three words in the body of the thread.

ys
May 1st, 2004, 07:01 PM
we cannot say who will be or is the dominant clay court player until Berlin and Rome finish.
Two words. Roland Garros. All others don't matter. And Venus WIlliams has definitely already made her intentions regarding Roland Garros known. I agree. Venus is obviously in formidable form and at this point Venus must be considered the odds-on favourite for RG.

But RG final is 5 weeks away. She could be peaking too early. Or she might have calculated just fine, hopes to cool off a bit after German Open, then warms up again for the second week of RG..

SJW
May 1st, 2004, 07:03 PM
just out of interest...how many top 10 players has Venus beat this year? (on clay?)

Volcana
May 1st, 2004, 07:12 PM
just out of interest...how many top 10 players has Venus beat this year? (on clay?)
Venus hasn't beaten any top ten players this year, AT ALL.

But on clay anyway, that's because they AREN'T PLAYING. Venus has gotten all the way to the finals of the last two tournaments on clay. She has literally faced everyone she could. But Warsaw has ONE top ten player. Charleston started out with a lot, but then there was that wave of withdrawals. Which, of course, is why I pointing out in the initial post that all the players who had better clay results than Venus were busy not playing.

Y'know, I put that 'For the moment' in bold print to be sure people saw it. Maybe I should have used bigger text.

Pureracket
May 1st, 2004, 09:04 PM
just out of interest...how many top 10 players has Venus beat this year? (on clay?)The question should be: How many top 10 players have beaten Venus on clay?;)

harloo
May 1st, 2004, 09:36 PM
Volcana, regardless of your rantings about the current state of Conchi's game nearly beating the world's number 1(who is considered the best on the red dirt) sure seems like a threat too me.

I also thought she played Venus well in the first set of the finals. However, in a sense you are correct about the competition. Venus needs to play Davenport, Jen, Amelie, Kim, and H-H to cement her dominance of the clay season.

I have always felt that regardless of who Venus plays, it only matters how she performs that day. I don't think it matters if she plays top 5 or #105, she will win it on her racquet. Her present form is an indication that she is back, and I only wish she continues too keep it up.:)

Volcana
May 1st, 2004, 09:42 PM
Volcana, regardless of your rantings about the current state of Conchi's game nearly beating the world's number 1(who is considered the best on the red dirt) sure seems like a threat too me.
I compared Conchi now to Conchi of old.

YOU got caught up whether or not 'threat' was an appropriate adjective.

I made the mistake, in my 'rantings' of thinking you were actaully trying to respond to what I what. My mistake. From here on out, I'll just assume you're off on your own tangent, whether or not it looks like you're responding to me. Now I know you aren't.

harloo
May 1st, 2004, 10:06 PM
From here on out, I'll just assume you're off on your own tangent, whether or not it looks like you're responding to me. Now I know you aren't.
So now you are delusional? Anyways, I will refrain from responding to you. It seems like you live in your own universe.:lol: