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Hot 92 Jamz
Apr 27th, 2004, 11:40 PM
Elton John Says 'American Idol' Vote Is 'Racist'
Tue Apr 27, 2:17 PM ET

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NEW YORK (Reuters) - British Rock star Elton John (news), a guest judge this month on the U.S. talent hunt TV series "American Idol," said on Tuesday that he found the voting by the national viewing audience "incredibly racist."

John, who heard the wannabe pop stars perform his songs during an appearance on the FOX TV show, added his voice to a chorus of dissent that followed last week's shock exit of black vocalist Jennifer Hudson, considered one of the top talents among those vying for a recording contract.

"The three people I was really impressed with, and they just happened to be black, young female singers, and they all seem to be landing in the bottom three," said John, commenting on the tally in which the lowest vote-getter is eliminated.

"They have great voices. The fact that they're constantly in the bottom three -- and I don't want to set myself up here -- but I find it incredibly racist," John said at a news conference promoting his Radio City Music Hall concert backed by an orchestra of students from London's Royal Academy of Music and The Juilliard School of New York.

The show often gets more than 20 million people voting.

The other two singers grouped in the bottom three of the seven remaining "American Idol" finalists last week were black divas La Toya London and Fantasia Barrino.

The results moved show host Ryan Seacrest to remind viewers that the series was a talent hunt and not a popularity contest.

"America, don't forget you have to vote for the talent," Seacrest said before closing the show. "You cannot let talent like this slip through the cracks."

FOX Television declined to comment.

Black crooner Ruben Studdard won the top prize last year.

FOX Television is part of the Fox Entertainment Group Inc., controlled by Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. Ltd.

Dawn Marie
Apr 28th, 2004, 07:28 AM
He is explaing why three BLACK WOMEN are in the bottom three every week while having the most powerful voices and the*obvious* talent.

it can be hard being black and even a bit tougher being a black women.

Nicky2002
Apr 28th, 2004, 07:43 AM
but yet the top 4 still consisted of a black man and an asian girl .... :rolleyes: ....... it is more that people thought they were safe because they sung so well that they didnt vote for them thinking everyone else would.
oh .. is that so

Sam L
Apr 28th, 2004, 09:08 AM
Love you Elton, but you don't know what you're talking about.

Like you watch American Idol week in week out to know what's really going on anyway. :rolleyes:

SM
Apr 28th, 2004, 11:21 AM
i agree with elton and dawn.

i think black women have the best , most powerful, most soulful voices in general anyway :worship:

Tratree
Apr 28th, 2004, 11:49 AM
Tratree says Elton John is a wanker.

azza
Apr 28th, 2004, 12:05 PM
well its the United States of coarse there Racist :sad:

bee
Apr 28th, 2004, 12:57 PM
people will vote whom they like... in terms of looks / personality / or Singing Ability...
Sometimes you can't understand why people like a particular tennis player or actor...

I don't think it is racist... it is just more people voted for the other contestants.... :) :)

Wigglytuff
Apr 28th, 2004, 01:01 PM
america is a racist nation, it was founded on race based oppresion. it remains rich BECAUSE OF RACISM. and thats nothing new.

sure racist americans will be offended if you call them racist, but that doesnt make it anyless so.

i mean year after year on this show the most talent BLACK voices ended up in the bottom. its no surprise to mean.

we see it everywhere. but it was no more clearer to me, then when i was in japan for 3 months, without having to deal with racism, and then came back to america. thats when it struck me to most.

Wigglytuff
Apr 28th, 2004, 01:10 PM
So when blacks support blacks, it's ok, but if whites prefer whites... Then it's "racism"... K.


see its not racist because you are "supporting whites" its racist because you are supposed to be picking the MOST TALENTED and instead you pick the white ones. that is very definition of racist.

bee
Apr 28th, 2004, 01:20 PM
People pick the singer they personally prefer, not the most talented one.

If it was about picking the most talented, they should hire 12 profesionnal judges who would vote based on specific points. When the general public is voting, it's always a question of preference, not talent or anything else.
I agree... ;) ;) ;) ;) :wavey: :wavey: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Wigglytuff
Apr 28th, 2004, 01:20 PM
People pick the singer they personally prefer, not the most talented one.


and because its a TALENT SEARCH and instead they pick based race. thats racist, because you see, in a TALENT SEARCH you are supposed *gasp* pick based on talent. if you pick based on race instead you are a racist. :tape:

Martian Willow
Apr 28th, 2004, 01:31 PM
People pick the singer they personally prefer, not the most talented one.

...I'm still hoping that some day someone will explain the difference to me... :)

Wigglytuff
Apr 28th, 2004, 01:35 PM
So I guess blacks who voted for Ruben Studdard are racist too.


see ruben was black but he was also talented. no one with a good ear would deny that the young ladies no long in the competion were the most TALENTED. now if a black person votes for the most TALENTED contestant, and if a white person votes for the most TALENTED contestant, thats what you are SUPPOSED TO DO.

now if you an idiot and votes for the LEAST talent because they are white and so are you. you are a racist. thats is what a racist is.


another example is if you have job opening and instead of give the jobs to most TALENTED you give it some based on race no QUALIFICATION you are racist. no only that, but that kind of thing is (in the states) illegal.

can you invent stuff and get around it to try to make youself feel less like a racist you can, but that doesnt make any less of one.

Ted of Teds Tennis
Apr 28th, 2004, 01:49 PM
and because its a TALENT SEARCH and instead they pick based race. thats racist, because you see, in a TALENT SEARCH you are supposed *gasp* pick based on talent. if you pick based on race instead you are a racist. :tape:

Talent, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

I think none of the American Idol folks have much talent -- or at least the talent they do have is one I don't enjoy. :)

Kart
Apr 28th, 2004, 02:10 PM
Elton John is such a talented musician but I can't stand his personality, he comes across as just so self obsessed.

Just felt like sharing that, I have no idea if he's right on here - I don't watch the show - but I wonder how qualified he is to make such a blanket statement about a whole nation.

Ballbuster
Apr 28th, 2004, 02:16 PM
So when blacks support blacks, it's ok, but if whites prefer whites... Then it's "racism"... K.

We are talking about a "no-talented" "no-personality" howdy dowdy.

Mase
Apr 28th, 2004, 02:19 PM
Bottom line is John shouldnt be there and Jennifer should.

njguido11
Apr 28th, 2004, 05:01 PM
if ur comment is ur racist for not picking the Most talented than clearly blacks who voted for ruben should be considered racist. No matter how much i can not stand clay its pretty obvious he is more talented than ruben. The fact that this was the 1st time two of them were even in the bottom 3 makes me wonder if elton even knows what hes talking about

Rocketta
Apr 28th, 2004, 05:02 PM
LaToya had also been in the bottom three before last week. Just wanted to correct what someone said earlier about Jennifer being the only one that had been in the bottom 3 before..

Also, did race play a part in this debacle yes. Was it the sole cause, no. I have to find that article where people wrote in to a journalist saying how it was their mission to vote for JS because they did not want to have another "black" AI win. That's racism people. Are there enough of us, if we vote, to neutralize the fringe nuts? Yes but we have to be proactive and not reactive.

Rocketta
Apr 28th, 2004, 05:05 PM
if ur comment is ur racist for not picking the Most talented than clearly blacks who voted for ruben should be considered racist. No matter how much i can not stand clay its pretty obvious he is more talented than ruben. The fact that this was the 1st time two of them were even in the bottom 3 makes me wonder if elton even knows what hes talking about
my ass, Clay is more talented than Ruben...:rolleyes:

you're basing this on what the ability to sing Broadway songs? :tape:

Rocketta
Apr 28th, 2004, 05:15 PM
It's just votes from a stupid freak show :shrug: Bottom line, people can vote for who they want.
well for the participants it's a big deal. This is a dream come true for some of them and for others the only way they would ever be able to have a record contract. People invest their time and energy watching the show and following the singers and when you do that you get invested in the outcome. You certainly don't want to see anyone get shafted or waste your time.

What's so freakish about it? Talent shows have been around a long time.

harloo
Apr 28th, 2004, 05:21 PM
I'm convinced folk did not want another black AI, and Rueben is proof of that alone. Last year when he won it was a big controversy. So instead of embracing the AI who won, America made Clay into the winner.

If you don't think race plays an important role in something like this, then think again. Maybe not in different countries, but in the good old US of A it matters to some people.

Now while I did not begrudge the voters for voting Jennifer in the bottom 3 in a previous week, I feel her exit when she had the best performance was simply wrong. And was it a coincidence that all three top contestants were the bottom 3? Elton John is right, and while anything racial is the big elephant in the room I am impressed that he has spoken up. :D ;)

Ballbuster
Apr 28th, 2004, 05:21 PM
This years Idol will be viewed as the Fraud that it is.

They better do something fast. How can the best be regulated to the back. Oh thats right, that is a recurrent theme in Amerikka.

carry on - let Amerikka embarrass herself - again.

Rocketta
Apr 28th, 2004, 05:27 PM
Anyway here's the article I was talking about. HoOvErPhOnIc provided it here
http://wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=112572 go there to see the full article.

The author is talking about a theory that was put forth to him that AI is racist.

Theory: American Idol is racist.

Did you ever wonder why Clay didn’t win? Did you ever stop and speculate as to why there are only two white people in the final 7? Why is it that Ruben and Kimberley Locke got plenty of screen time to sing their new songs, but RJ Helton was barely given a howdy from his seat? Why do they insist on keeping Motown week but tossed out big band week like a used diaper? Did you ever notice that the judges have only praise for the black singers but insult the white singers every single week? It’s because American Idol is prejudiced against white people! This week I’ve heard from readers who call in and vote for John Stevens because he’s the “whitest” of those who remain in the competition. He sings harmless “white” music and doesn’t mess around with the edgier “black” stuff. These people are convinced that AI in general and the judges in particular are determined to shove the “colored” singers down our throats and they aren’t going to allow a “bunch of NAACP loving morons to throw all the white people off the radio.” Yes, that last was a quote. It wasn’t even one of the more hateful ones. In this group of letters, I heard from people who feel that even Diana is suspect because she looks like she might only be “part” white. As much as I’d like to laugh at this whole thing, I can’t. I take it seriously. If you receive one letter like this you can chalk it up to a lone crackpot, hit the delete button, and move on. But I literally received dozens like it. Many used terms that cannot be reprinted here. I’ve also heard from the other writers in the group who have received similar mail. So let’s start out by assuming the theory is correct and see how it holds up under scrutiny.

Last year’s winner was a black male. He narrowly beat out what I think we can all agree is a white guy. Maybe there is something to this after all! But wait a moment… Newsweek magazine openly reported in a cover story last season that the producers saw a Clay/Ruben finale and were worried that the vastly improved Kimberley Locke might just slip in and ruin that idea. She didn’t. Kimberley placed third. I don’t even have to check my CD cover to verify it. The stunning and talented Ms. Locke is every inch a black woman. If the powers that be at Idol want white people gone so badly, why didn’t Kim place second? Since the end of Season 2, Clay Aiken has been on the cover of Rolling Stone and umpteen other publications. He’s appeared on Leno, Letterman, and virtually every other talk show that showcases singers. His tour with Kelly Clarkson (who happens to be a stunning and talented white woman) has been frequently mentioned on Idol and virtually everywhere else.

Did you know that Ruben is on tour too? You probably did. It was all over the news. Not because he is a smash sensation and selling out all across America, though. His tour only made the big news when some of his road crew got busted with a baggie of marijuana. If Idol is so prejudiced against white singers, why did Clay get such a strong promotional push? Why did they sponsor the Aiken/Clarkson tour instead of a Studdard/Aiken tour? Why didn’t they try to cover up or at least do some spin control on the drug bust so Ruben’s reputation would remain squeaky clean? It was left to Ruben himself to come forward and deal with the fallout. Still not convinced that the “prejudice” theory is a sham? Okay, what do we have this season?

John, JPL, and Diana have been trashed pretty well by the judges, that’s true. The minority singers have been widely praised. Simon told Fantasia, “Thank God you are still in this competition,” and said that LaToya was “the best singer.” There’s no arguing that. Of course, there’s also no arguing that Simon also told LaToya that she looked like she had a dead cat on her head. Jennifer’s fashion sense and her tendency to scream instead of sing have also been heavily commented on at the judges’ table. Simon and Fantasia have traded barbs so many times that people became convinced that Fantasia had an attitude problem. If we’re going to be honest here, Simon’s barbed tongue has slashed just about every single singer to walk across the Idol stage. He’s an equal opportunity destroyer. The judges definitely have their favorites, but doesn’t every viewer who turns in? Let’s not even glance at Season 1 because the Nikki McKibbin phenomenon not only stands in defiance of the whole prejudice issue, it shatters it. Last but not least, the biggest proof that racism isn’t an issue at American Idol is the fact that the winners are determined by the voters and not the judges. That’s the truth, right? Not according to some. Which brings us to:
So, yes there is a contigent out there voting for john not because they like his style or think he's cute or any other reasons besides that he's white and they want a white person to win. Now is this the main reason Jennifer got sent home early? I haven't a clue....I personally believe there were a lot of factors involved the number one being that "we" who watch the show wasn't proactive and vote for her and the others as much as we should have. We'll never know.

Tratree
Apr 28th, 2004, 05:44 PM
C'mon with the Oliver Stone theories. This happens every AI. People vote for the underdogs so much that one of the good contestants gets the boot. It's happened before, it will happen again. Amy was more talented than a lot of people still in the contest, but I didn't see anyone crying controversy then.

As far as the Ruben/Clay thing, I think they are both talented. I loved Ruben all the way through last year, but I hated that damn Flying song and I thought Clay did a better job in the final. I did like Ruben's "Imagine" though. I haven't bought either album. I would've been more inclined to buy Ruben's album if he stayed with the smooth R&B stuff he did on the show, but I can't stand that Sorry 2004 whatever song or anything else I've heard from his album. It's a matter of musical preference to me.
Btw, anyone that is still voting for John Stevens needs to have a labotomy. Let. It. Go.

G-Ha
Apr 28th, 2004, 05:54 PM
I'm glad that Elton John has spoken out in support of Jennifer, as it's absurd that she left the show so early. Plus, I think she was the best vocalist there.

And while I believe race definitely plays a factor in the votes, I don't believe Jennifer, LaToya and Fantasia being in the bottom 3 one week, is racist per se. I don't believe the audience as a whole consciously decided that it was time for all the black girls to be in the bottom. Keep in mind that those 3 probably appeal to the same audience and were splitting votes since the beginning of the show. I think we might see Fantasia and LaToya rebound this week, as they will probably now start receiving Jennifer's votes.

Also, prior to last week, Fantasia and George (both black), were the only two contestants to never be in the bottom 3. George still has never been in the bottom 3 (despite 3 straight weeks now of horrible performances). So, let's not be so quick to chalk the whole situation up to racism.

esquímaux
Apr 28th, 2004, 05:56 PM
:tennis:

Dava
Apr 28th, 2004, 06:34 PM
You know Im white and dont even watch this programme, but even I commented that it could have been a rasict vote. That young gingeer lad was absoltuly awful, how he stayed in was beyond me.

moon
Apr 28th, 2004, 10:07 PM
I really hate it that they seem to be putting Rueben out there as some prop that AI is not racist. Rueben might have won, but who's been getting all the press? CLAY AIKEN.

btw--I stopped watching Idol after they voted off Tamyra Gray and that no talent Nikki still got to hang around.

njguido11
Apr 29th, 2004, 12:46 AM
uh oh george is in the bottom 3. hopefully he sticks around or itll be a racist vote again

Black Mamba.
Apr 29th, 2004, 12:50 AM
I really hate it that they seem to be putting Rueben out there as some prop that AI is not racist. Rueben might have won, but who's been getting all the press? CLAY AIKEN.

btw--I stopped watching Idol after they voted off Tamyra Gray and that no talent Nikki still got to hang around.


I totally agree, I stopped watching the show that night. I mean Tamyra Gray had one average performance and that was just because she picked the wrong song, but they sang two songs that night and she killed the second one. Meanwhile Nikki and Justin gave average performances that night and were clearly the bottom two, and yet Tamyra went home.

njguido11
Apr 29th, 2004, 12:53 AM
def the right bottom 2. hopefully this is the last time i ever see john again

BlinX
Apr 29th, 2004, 12:55 AM
Who's in the bottom two??? rep me with the answer please cuz i have to go also tell me who got voted out thanks.

njguido11
Apr 29th, 2004, 12:58 AM
john stevens got voted out. him and george were bottom 2. hes singing his goodbye now and killing my ears as i write this

Freewoman33
Apr 29th, 2004, 01:14 AM
john stevens got voted out. him and george were bottom 2. hes singing his goodbye now and killing my ears as i write this

LOL! I thought the same thing. How did he make it that far?

Anyway, I'm not an American Idol fan, so I really don't have an opinion on the racism issue.

I can tell you all one thing, this kid will be the next Clay A. White America will strike back, just like they did when Ruben edged out Clay. He'll get a record deal with one of the major companies, and white america will put up him at the top of the charts in record sales. You ain't see nothing yet.

AnDyDog621
Apr 29th, 2004, 01:37 AM
LOL! I thought the same thing. How did he make it that far?

Anyway, I'm not an American Idol fan, so I really don't have an opinion on the racism issue.

I can tell you all one thing, this kid will be the next Clay A. White America will strike back, just like they did when Ruben edged out Clay. He'll get a record deal with one of the major companies, and white america will put up him at the top of the charts in record sales. You ain't see nothing yet.
OMG, this kid will Never ever be the Clay A...Clay Has Talent, he should have won...cause he, well to me, was more talented to Ruben. Plus this kid is only 16. He has to go to school, get his driver's license, go to college, u kno, stuff ur suppose to do when ur 16. He got the American Idol tour too...

Question?? So before this week...was it racist that George was never in the bottom 3. Cmon, he was not as bad as John is, but he sucked the last few weeks. So were the black people just voting for him based on his race...and not by their performance during the week. Cmon, obviously Latoya, Jennifer and Fantasia has more talent than him, than why was he not in the bottom 3? well obviously, its not soo much about racism, then is there!!

So final 5...we have 2 black grls, a chink, 1 black guy, and a white grl...80% is the minority...i don't get how any1 can think this is racism?

Freewoman33
Apr 29th, 2004, 01:48 AM
You're asking me? Did you read my post? I only turn my tub to AI tonight because of all to controversy I'd been hearing.

As far as Ruben and Clay are concern, Ruben won because he was the better singer. White america went in droves to buy Clay's cd. Till this day, I think Clay has sold more records than Ruben.

AnDyDog621
Apr 29th, 2004, 02:04 AM
You're asking me? Did you read my post? I only turn my tub to AI tonight because of all to controversy I'd been hearing.

As far as Ruben and Clay are concern, Ruben won because he was the better singer. White america went in droves to buy Clay's cd. Till this day, I think Clay has sold more records than Ruben.
No Ruben is not a better singer, Clay is...i like both of them...but i think Clay is far more talented, he has more range, but Ruben doesn't. His range is nothing but what he has is Good

Knizzle
Apr 29th, 2004, 02:06 AM
I would just like to say that in reference to Ruben winning that there was believed to be computer error with the votes so 180,000 plus people who tried to vote for Clay voted for Ruben and the difference won Ruben the competition.

These numbers might be a little off, it was awhile since I read this.

AnDyDog621
Apr 29th, 2004, 02:21 AM
So who was in the bottom 3 tonight....George and John and who else???

Freewoman33
Apr 29th, 2004, 02:35 AM
To each his own.

reyrey
Apr 29th, 2004, 02:52 AM
Whoever Peter engel is, he really looked stupid saying that the first 5 contestant voted off were white. Unless my eyes deceive me or was Camille Hawaiian. Also who the white girl left in the competition. I don't see any.
For those who are still mad that Clay lost, get over it. Everyone knew before the show that he had a record deal and his fans didn't feel the need to vote. Also the loser sometimes comes out on top. Look at Kwame on the Apprentice.

AnDyDog621
Apr 29th, 2004, 02:54 AM
Whoever Peter engel is, he really looked stupid saying that the first 5 contestant voted off were white. Unless my eyes deceive me or was Camille Hawaiian. Also who the white girl left in the competition. I don't see any.
For those who are still mad that Clay lost, get over it. Everyone knew before the show that he had a record deal and his fans didn't feel the need to vote. Also the loser sometimes comes out on top. Look at Kwame on the Apprentice.
Isn't her name Diana?? the white grl left in the competition

mykarma
Apr 29th, 2004, 11:34 AM
OMG, this kid will Never ever be the Clay A...Clay Has Talent, he should have won...cause he, well to me, was more talented to Ruben. Plus this kid is only 16. He has to go to school, get his driver's license, go to college, u kno, stuff ur suppose to do when ur 16. He got the American Idol tour too...

Question?? So before this week...was it racist that George was never in the bottom 3. Cmon, he was not as bad as John is, but he sucked the last few weeks. So were the black people just voting for him based on his race...and not by their performance during the week. Cmon, obviously Latoya, Jennifer and Fantasia has more talent than him, than why was he not in the bottom 3? well obviously, its not soo much about racism, then is there!!

So final 5...we have 2 black grls, a chink, 1 black guy, and a white grl...80% is the minority...i don't get how any1 can think this is racism?
What is a "CHINK"? With a racist statement like that, no wonder you can't see any racism in the voting. :smash:

bee
Apr 29th, 2004, 11:49 AM
The Asian girl is a Filipina... :)

Bright Red
Apr 29th, 2004, 12:14 PM
Elton John is such a talented musician but I can't stand his personality, he comes across as just so self obsessed.

Just felt like sharing that, I have no idea if he's right on here - I don't watch the show - but I wonder how qualified he is to make such a blanket statement about a whole nation.I watch the show, and I know he's wrong. He, like everyone elso, was shocked that the three most talented people (voice wise) were in the bottom 3. The only difference is that he used his air time to make a reckless statement.

Without question there are racist people in the US. But are most of the voters racist? Absolutely not. 3 of the final 5 contestants are black (that's 60% even though the black population of the US is under 15%). And didn't a black guy win the whole thing last year anyway? Let's get real.

I agree with whomever made the comment that voters assumed that the three black women were "safe" and therefore didn't vote as much for them last week. That's what I think happened. And if you notice, 2 of the three black women who were in the bottom last week were now in the top 3 this week. Voters realized that they couldn't afford to assume someone was safe.

The show's pretty cheesy, and the vote is sometimes shocking. But the vote ain't racist.

mykarma
May 5th, 2004, 02:45 AM
if ur comment is ur racist for not picking the Most talented than clearly blacks who voted for ruben should be considered racist. No matter how much i can not stand clay its pretty obvious he is more talented than ruben. The fact that this was the 1st time two of them were even in the bottom 3 makes me wonder if elton even knows what hes talking about
That little redhead can not sing. Not only were blacks outraged by the results, so were the judges. Also, white people on my job came to work the next day talking about how racist the voting was. The results of that show were so absurd it made national news. As we all know, blacks certainly don't own any of the major news stations.

If every black in this country voted for Reuben without white vote, he would not have won. Anyway, you would have thought it was a tie between Ruben and Clay. Everywhere they sent Reuben, they also sent Clay. The same cannot be said when Kelly won the first show and the sister came in second, who was better in my opinion. You didn't see the two of them on every show. Nope, it was just Kelly. Was Kelly better than the sister that lost? Not in my opinion, but at least she had SOME talent.

I find it interesting that so many white people on these boards feel as though they know more about racism than blacks. Most wouldn't recognize it if it smacked them in the face. :mad:

mykarma
May 5th, 2004, 02:48 AM
Elton John is such a talented musician but I can't stand his personality, he comes across as just so self obsessed.

Just felt like sharing that, I have no idea if he's right on here - I don't watch the show - but I wonder how qualified he is to make such a blanket statement about a whole nation.
Anyone in the world can make a statement on racism in the United States. Our country was built on racism.

Rocketta
May 5th, 2004, 03:18 AM
If every black in this country voted for Reuben without white vote, he would not have won. Anyway, you would have thought it was a tie between Ruben and Clay. Everywhere they sent Reuben, they also sent Clay. The same cannot be said when Kelly won the first show and the sister came in second, who was better in my opinion. You didn't see the two of them on every show. Nope, it was just Kelly. Was Kelly better than the sister that lost? Not in my opinion, but at least she had SOME talent.
eh, what sister that came in 2nd? :unsure:

Unless your just being funny and referring to the weirdo that is Justin G who came in 2nd? :confused:

gentenaire
May 5th, 2004, 07:54 AM
In the Belgian idol, there were a few surprises as well. Twice one of the top contenders was voted off early. The reason was simply that people thought they were safe and decided to vote for the candidate who had a higher chance of being sent home.
So it's definitely possible the same happened in the US.