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TennisLurker
Apr 4th, 2004, 12:01 AM
do any of you remember when there was a good top ten??

graf seles sabatini arantxa novotna navratilova conchita and teen capfat?

I mean, even Mary Jo :rolleyes:



wta tennis nowadays = pathetic

for-sure
Apr 4th, 2004, 12:06 AM
RELAX! Jenn Cap and Venus were both defeated in the event. Just cause there was one bad final...it ain't the end of the world.

jrm
Apr 4th, 2004, 12:08 AM
Even back then fully healthy Graf and Seles were winning everything ...

pav
Apr 4th, 2004, 12:12 AM
Any top ten is a good top ten, no good looking back for the good ol days

TennisLurker
Apr 4th, 2004, 12:21 AM
everybody in that list (but conchita) could beat steffi and monica (in fact they did beat them), and even if they lost they played entertaining and competitive matches.

Rothes
Apr 4th, 2004, 12:27 AM
do any of you remember when there was a good top ten??

graf seles sabatini arantxa novotna navratilova conchita and teen capfat?

I mean, even Mary Jo :rolleyes:



wta tennis nowadays = pathetic
The top 10 is good now days as well, you just choose to live and conceal the pass too much.

OUT!
Apr 4th, 2004, 12:29 AM
The Graf-Seles era was great. But I also thought that 1999-2000 was pretty good as well.

TennisLurker
Apr 4th, 2004, 12:30 AM
i agree 1998 1999 2000 was good too.

goldenlox
Apr 4th, 2004, 12:31 AM
Two players have won the last 8 majors. Only 4 player made those finals. Not much depth.

for-sure
Apr 4th, 2004, 12:42 AM
Ya, monica winning 9 grand slam in a row (almost ) was real depth!

bandabou
Apr 4th, 2004, 12:42 AM
But since when was there any dept in the womenīs game?! Graf and Seles were winning everything, Martina N and Chris too, etc....and now that it is the Williamses and the Belgians it is bad?!

goldenlox
Apr 4th, 2004, 12:49 AM
When is a different player making a GS final? Besides the big 4. This year?

fammmmedspin
Apr 4th, 2004, 12:56 AM
everybody in that list (but conchita) could beat steffi and monica (in fact they did beat them), and even if they lost they played entertaining and competitive matches.
People in the list could beat Steffi or Monica but they did it rarely and not many of them managed to do it in the same year. Graf and Seles had one main competitor in the form of eachother and we know what happened to that rivalry. ASV took Monica's place but despite some great wins never was as threatening as Seles. Some (Jana, Gabi) threatened for a while but then Graf leant how to beat them (W 93/91) By that criteria the most (only) competitive top 10 was 1992 and most of the players on that list still didn't threaten Steffi or Monica in 1992. Jen did at the Olympics in 92 - but look what happened to her after. MJF never managed it against Steffi at all.

Fingon
Apr 4th, 2004, 01:56 AM
do any of you remember when there was a good top ten??

graf seles sabatini arantxa novotna navratilova conchita and teen capfat?

I mean, even Mary Jo :rolleyes:



wta tennis nowadays = pathetic
what are you talking about?

1988: Steffi won all grand slams
1989: Steffi won 3 grand slams
1990: ok, this one had 4 winners (Steffi, Monica, Navratilova, Sabatini)
1991: Monica 3, Steffi 1
1992: see above
1993: Steffi 3, Monica 1
1994: OMG, another strange year, but Steffi was injured and Monica out.
1995: Steffi 3 and yes, she didnt play the Australian Open
1996: see above

where the hell was the depth?

BigTennisFan
Apr 4th, 2004, 04:42 AM
what are you talking about?

1988: Steffi won all grand slams
1989: Steffi won 3 grand slams
1990: ok, this one had 4 winners (Steffi, Monica, Navratilova, Sabatini)
1991: Monica 3, Steffi 1
1992: see above
1993: Steffi 3, Monica 1
1994: OMG, another strange year, but Steffi was injured and Monica out.
1995: Steffi 3 and yes, she didnt play the Australian Open
1996: see above

where the hell was the depth?
Good post. Your stats just go to prove that people love to romanticize the past. This wonderful "depth" that people imagine was there did not exist.

Mr_Molik
Apr 4th, 2004, 04:46 AM
1998-1st half of2000 there was real depth:
1998: 4 different slam winners(hingis,ASV,jana,lindsay) 4 finalists(hingis, seles, tauziat and conchita)
1999: 4 different winners(hingis, steffi,lindsay,serena) 3 finalists(mauresmo,hingisx2, steffi)
2000: 2 winners (lindsay, mary pierce) 2 finalists (hingis,conchita) and then venus started dominating

so in those 10 slams, there were 7 winners and a further 4 finalists
nowadays, 2 players have won the last 8 slams, and only four players have made finals
not alot of depth....

harloo
Apr 4th, 2004, 04:55 AM
1998-1st half of2000 there was real depth:
1998: 4 different slam winners(hingis,ASV,jana,lindsay) 4 finalists(hingis, seles, tauziat and conchita)
1999: 4 different winners(hingis, steffi,lindsay,serena) 3 finalists(mauresmo,hingisx2, steffi)
2000: 2 winners (lindsay, mary pierce) 2 finalists (hingis,conchita) and then venus started dominating



These were really some of the best years of the tour. Now players just roll over.:rolleyes:

Billabong
Apr 4th, 2004, 04:58 AM
These were really some of the best years of the tour. Now players just roll over.:rolleyes:

I second that :worship: !

Mr_Molik
Apr 4th, 2004, 05:13 AM
there was also a very good yr in 1981, where there were 5 players at the top of the game- navratilova, chrissie, hana, tracey austin and andrea jaegar, who could all beat eachother on any day.
martina beat chrissie in aus final
hana beat silvia hanika french final
chrissie beat hana in the wimbledon final
tracey beat martina in the us final

MrYonex
Apr 4th, 2004, 07:46 AM
I think that right now the top 10 is not that good because there have been so many injuries. Can't wait for Seles to be back in the top 10!

mn73
Apr 4th, 2004, 10:34 AM
Its not that long ago that Seles and Venus were in the Top 10 along with Serena, Lindsay, Jen, Amelie, Justine and Kim. That was a fantastic Top 8 at least. One of the best for years.

A'DAM
Apr 4th, 2004, 11:02 AM
Im gonna be very objective and take a look on todays top ten:

1 Justine: ??? Good player with a lot of good strengt but for me her game is nothing special, and really I dont want to make anybody angry but I still think that the fact that she has 7626 points is... :confused: ???

2 Kim: strugles a lot, weak forehand, bad mentality but again good player who not actually plays like top 3 player

3 Amelie: hmmm thats the diamond good player buth mostly on the injuried list!!! and still nb 3!!!

4 Lindsay: She improved a lot last times and Im really exited what she will achieve this year!

5 Anastasia: hmmm here I will be brutal what the f*** she is doing in top 5!!!!! C'mon she can play but top 5 or even top 10???

6 Serena: nb 6? C'mon lets say that just ranking nb we all know she is one of the best in history, but still when she will keep having so many injuries than who knows if acting or designing is maybe better for her?

7 Jenny: she was verrry good 2 years ago now she is just average player top 20 or 30

8 Elena: everybody knows what the hell she is doing with her serve!!!!!!!!!

9 Chanda: stabil player with a lot of will to win but not enough pawer to do so, not a top 10 player for me.

10 Ai: yes aiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!! she in top 10??? She can plays dubbles buth in singles she sucks

I hope nobody is angry on me or upset buth I was really trying to be objective!!!

A'DAM
Apr 4th, 2004, 11:15 AM
By the way where is Venus???

Alan
Apr 4th, 2004, 11:34 AM
These were really some of the best years of the tour. Now players just roll over.:rolleyes:

hmmm i kinda agree with that

SpikeyAidanm
Apr 4th, 2004, 11:35 AM
1999 Rankings.

Alan
Apr 4th, 2004, 11:37 AM
nonetheless every woman or girl who has reached a career high ranking within the top 10 worked really very hard, and could kick a lot of other girls' asses, so i have great respect and appreciatioin for them

Brαm
Apr 4th, 2004, 12:25 PM
Im gonna be very objective and take a look on todays top ten:

1 Justine: ??? Good player with a lot of good strengt but for me her game is nothing special, and really I dont want to make anybody angry but I still think that the fact that she has 7626 points is... :confused: ???

2 Kim: strugles a lot, weak forehand, bad mentality but again good player who not actually plays like top 3 player

3 Amelie: hmmm thats the diamond good player buth mostly on the injuried list!!! and still nb 3!!!

4 Lindsay: She improved a lot last times and Im really exited what she will achieve this year!

5 Anastasia: hmmm here I will be brutal what the f*** she is doing in top 5!!!!! C'mon she can play but top 5 or even top 10???

6 Serena: nb 6? C'mon lets say that just ranking nb we all know she is one of the best in history, but still when she will keep having so many injuries than who knows if acting or designing is maybe better for her?

7 Jenny: she was verrry good 2 years ago now she is just average player top 20 or 30

8 Elena: everybody knows what the hell she is doing with her serve!!!!!!!!!

9 Chanda: stabil player with a lot of will to win but not enough pawer to do so, not a top 10 player for me.

10 Ai: yes aiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!! she in top 10??? She can plays dubbles buth in singles she sucks

I hope nobody is angry on me or upset buth I was really trying to be objective!!!
If none of these players belong to the top-10, then who DOES?! :eek:

crazillo
Apr 4th, 2004, 02:04 PM
1998 Top ten:
1. Hingis
2. Davenport
3. Novotna
4. Sanchez-Vicario
5. V. Williams
6. Seles
7. Graf
8. Pierce
9. Halard-Decugis
10. Tauziat

raquel
Apr 4th, 2004, 02:38 PM
Im gonna be very objective and take a look on todays top ten:

1 Justine: ??? Good player with a lot of good strengt but for me her game is nothing special, and really I dont want to make anybody angry but I still think that the fact that she has 7626 points is... :confused: ???

You say you hope people are not angry with your post and I am not angry, but whatever doubts people have about Henin being number 1 without Serena around, I think even they would say Justine is more than 'nothing special'. Hello! Have you seen that backhand? Personally I think that backhand alone is very 'special'. She has also put in the hard work and raised the rest of her game and perhaps deserves more credit than you've given her here.

2 Kim: strugles a lot, weak forehand, bad mentality but again good player who not actually plays like top 3 player

4 GS finals, 2 Chase wins and many more titles. Kim is a way behind Justine and Serena in GS terms, but I don't think that record is of someone who 'struggles a lot' and she does play like a top 3 player because right now I would always bet Kim to beat the rest of the top 10 below her apart from Serena

3 Amelie: hmmm thats the diamond good player buth mostly on the injuried list!!! and still nb 3!!!

Amelie is a good player but if you are talking about mental weakness with Kim, I think Amelie suffers a little from it too. Roland Garros vs. Kandarr and Roland Garros vs. Serena were two in particular where she has shown she is mentally weak. She beat Serena 3 weeks earlier but at the French it was like Serena was playing someone in the 200's.

A'DAM
Apr 4th, 2004, 02:50 PM
You say you hope people are not angry with your post and I am not angry, but whatever doubts people have about Henin being number 1 without Serena around, I think even they would say Justine is more than 'nothing special'. Hello! Have you seen that backhand? Personally I think that backhand alone is very 'special'. She has also put in the hard work and raised the rest of her game and perhaps deserves more credit than you've given her here.



4 GS finals, 2 Chase wins and many more titles. Kim is a way behind Justine and Serena in GS terms, but I don't think that record is of someone who 'struggles a lot' and she does play like a top 3 player because right now I would always bet Kim to beat the rest of the top 10 below her apart from Serena



Amelie is a good player but if you are talking about mental weakness with Kim, I think Amelie suffers a little from it too. Roland Garros vs. Kandarr and Roland Garros vs. Serena were two in particular where she has shown she is mentally weak. She beat Serena 3 weeks earlier but at the French it was like Serena was playing someone in the 200's.

I really apriciate your commends!!! Dont get me wrong i think Belgium girls are a good players but I have feeling that they kinda credit a situation when there are no really top players around

Yes Amelie is also bit mentally weak

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

A'DAM
Apr 4th, 2004, 02:52 PM
If none of these players belong to the top-10, then who DOES?! :eek:

C'mon thats not what I said!!!
I think that some of the top players needs to improve their game!
:wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

Experimentee
Apr 4th, 2004, 02:57 PM
I think the top 10 would be better than those days if we had Serena, Venus, Justine, Kim, Amelie, Davenport, Capriati and Seles all healthy and playing well. If we had all those players back then it has the potential to be one of the best top 10s, and it might happen soon, except for Monica, i dont think she'll be back and playing well for at least another 6 months.

TheBoiledEgg
Apr 4th, 2004, 03:06 PM
all seeing things thru rose tinted glasses.
There has always only EVER been 1-2 women who have dominated at one time.
Even back then, all those mentioned above used to lie down and surrender in 50 mins.

they got a little better in time but still they couldnt cut it.

bandabou
Apr 4th, 2004, 03:12 PM
You say you hope people are not angry with your post and I am not angry, but whatever doubts people have about Henin being number 1 without Serena around, I think even they would say Justine is more than 'nothing special'. Hello! Have you seen that backhand? Personally I think that backhand alone is very 'special'. She has also put in the hard work and raised the rest of her game and perhaps deserves more credit than you've given her here.



4 GS finals, 2 Chase wins and many more titles. Kim is a way behind Justine and Serena in GS terms, but I don't think that record is of someone who 'struggles a lot' and she does play like a top 3 player because right now I would always bet Kim to beat the rest of the top 10 below her apart from Serena



Amelie is a good player but if you are talking about mental weakness with Kim, I think Amelie suffers a little from it too. Roland Garros vs. Kandarr and Roland Garros vs. Serena were two in particular where she has shown she is mentally weak. She beat Serena 3 weeks earlier but at the French it was like Serena was playing someone in the 200's.

Well said.....only thing is that Kim isnīt way behind Justine and Serena....she is WAAAAYYYYYYYYY behind them.

sartrista7
Apr 4th, 2004, 03:15 PM
I think the top 10 would be better than those days if we had Serena, Venus, Justine, Kim, Amelie, Davenport, Capriati and Seles all healthy and playing well. If we had all those players back then it has the potential to be one of the best top 10s, and it might happen soon, except for Monica, i dont think she'll be back and playing well for at least another 6 months.

One of the problems with how people see the top 10 - amply demonstrated by Experimentee's post - is that they only consider those who have already proven themselves at the very highest level, no matter how long ago, as 'worthy' of a top 10 spot. It's all very well to say that "if Capriati and Davenport play well the top 10 would be more competitive", but the fact of the matter is that they are NOT at their Slam-winning level, and are currently incapable of reaching it. Just because they are past champions doesn't mean that they're any more of a threat to the Serena-Justine-(Kim)-(Venus) hegemony than Nastya, Sveta, Vera etc. None of them are regular threats, but at least the latter players are improving, rather than declining. It's easy to forget that just before Venus's 35-match winning streak... she'd only made it to one Slam final, with a weakened draw, and because she was relatively unproven she was written off by many. Which was bullshit, of course.

Oh, and Adam UK must have lowered the collective WTAWorld IQ by a huge amount... something I didn't think was possible. I don't think I've read such a ridiculously dumb post in a while.

A'DAM
Apr 4th, 2004, 03:24 PM
Oh, and Adam UK must have lowered the collective WTAWorld IQ by a huge amount... something I didn't think was possible. I don't think I've read such a ridiculously dumb post in a while.[/QUOTE]



:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

raquel
Apr 4th, 2004, 03:24 PM
Well said.....only thing is that Kim isnīt way behind Justine and Serena....she is WAAAAYYYYYYYYY behind them.

Thanks bandabou, as a Kim fan I was trying to put it in a nice way :)

By the way what is this thing in your sig and many others about the Royal Court? Is it a Serena/Venus thing? Maybe I can be official bandwagon hopper of the Royal Court :p

fammmmedspin
Apr 4th, 2004, 04:10 PM
1998 Top ten:
1. Hingis
2. Davenport
3. Novotna
4. Sanchez-Vicario
5. V. Williams
6. Seles
7. Graf
8. Pierce
9. Halard-Decugis
10. Tauziat
i liked 98 too - of course that was the time when people were complaining about Hingis being number 1 because she didn't win all the GS but won hordes of other tournaments.

Pamela Shriver
Apr 4th, 2004, 04:17 PM
Do any of you remember when there was a good "top ten"?
Yep, when I was there.

fammmmedspin
Apr 4th, 2004, 04:25 PM
Im gonna be very objective and take a look on todays top ten:

1 Justine: ??? Good player with a lot of good strengt but for me her game is nothing special, and really I dont want to make anybody angry but I still think that the fact that she has 7626 points is... :confused: ???

2 Kim: strugles a lot, weak forehand, bad mentality but again good player who not actually plays like top 3 player

3 Amelie: hmmm thats the diamond good player buth mostly on the injuried list!!! and still nb 3!!!

4 Lindsay: She improved a lot last times and Im really exited what she will achieve this year!

5 Anastasia: hmmm here I will be brutal what the f*** she is doing in top 5!!!!! C'mon she can play but top 5 or even top 10???

6 Serena: nb 6? C'mon lets say that just ranking nb we all know she is one of the best in history, but still when she will keep having so many injuries than who knows if acting or designing is maybe better for her?

7 Jenny: she was verrry good 2 years ago now she is just average player top 20 or 30

8 Elena: everybody knows what the hell she is doing with her serve!!!!!!!!!

9 Chanda: stabil player with a lot of will to win but not enough pawer to do so, not a top 10 player for me.

10 Ai: yes aiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!! she in top 10??? She can plays dubbles buth in singles she sucks

I hope nobody is angry on me or upset buth I was really trying to be objective!!!As someone said those people are the top 10 because no one else is.

Justine has 3 GS in her ranking so its hardly surprising she has lots of points. as she plays half as much again as Serena its not surprising she has more points than serena had either.

Kim is a perfectly good top 3 player. Does anyone think Sabatini, Coetzer, Martinez or Tauziat were better? ASV? Novotna? Capriati over a year? She beats the field consistently and has the number of the two people behind her in the rankings. Kim looks a perfecly viable number 1 against all but 2 players and one of them doesn't play enough to keep the number 1 spot which leaves her only one player to master.

Amelie number 3 with injuries tells you something.

Lindsay - obviously better than those behind her.

Myskina - more of a threat to the top than Lindsay and more dangerous than many of the people who have been 3 or 4 in recent years.

hingis-seles
Apr 4th, 2004, 04:26 PM
Thanks bandabou, as a Kim fan I was trying to put it in a nice way :)

By the way what is this thing in your sig and many others about the Royal Court? Is it a Serena/Venus thing? Maybe I can be official bandwagon hopper of the Royal Court :p
I've been wondering about that. :p

bandabou
Apr 4th, 2004, 04:37 PM
Thanks bandabou, as a Kim fan I was trying to put it in a nice way :)

By the way what is this thing in your sig and many others about the Royal Court? Is it a Serena/Venus thing? Maybe I can be official bandwagon hopper of the Royal Court :p

:lol: Only real Williams-fans can do! :lol: Are you willing to obey to the law of the Royal Court?!

charmedRic
Apr 4th, 2004, 05:24 PM
Instead of focusing on a 'Slamming' Top Ten, I would rather much see a strong solid Top 25 or Top 40.

I'm not asking for a depth that is found in the ATP where the Grand Slam Defending Champion falls to a Qualifier in the first round, I would simply like to see more Qualifiers going far, more 3 sets matches (BIG THING), and most of all I would like to see breakthroughs, and LESS INJURIES.