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shap_half
Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:10 PM
Davenport leads H2H 5-3

1999 Roland Garros 2R Davenport 3-6 6-2 5-7
2000 du Maurier Open 2R Davenport 6-3 6-7(2) 2-6
2000 US Open 4R Davenport 0-6 4-6
2001 Porsche Tennis Grand Prix Davenport L 5-7 4-6
2002 Swisscom Challenge SF Davenport 6-7(2) 6-7(5)
2003 Australian Open 4R Henin-Hardenne 7-5 5-7 9-7
2004 Adidas International SF Henin-Hardenne WO
2004 Australian Open QF Henin-Hardenne 7-5 6-3
2004 Pacific Life Open F Henin-Hardenne 6-1 6-4

After carefully reviewing their H2H and taking in consideration numerous factors in the situation, I'll say that Justine is the better player when it comes to the two of them. I think that in their best, Justine will win 5 of every 7 matches.

Although the H2H is entirely in Lindsay's favor. It's very important to note that Justine was quite young and inexperience and certainly did not have the experience and growth that she has now. BUt even when you take that into consideration, Lindsay has never had an 'easy' time at defeating Justine except when they met in the 4th R of the 2000 USO. Most of the matches Lindsay won were decided on one break - a clear indication that she won because Justine was mentally fragile player. It wasn't because Lindsay was heaps better, it was because Justine didn't have the mental stability to stay in the match and get a break back. Their very first match, Justine was up a break on Lindsay but still lost. Their second match, Justine had many chances to win, but still lost. Their SF at Zurich, proved that Justine was a mental headcase against Lindsay and couldn't beat someone who was heavily injured. But once Justine was able to get over that obstacle, Justine is beating Lindsay easier than Lindsay was when Lindsay was the higher ranked player and the one who had the mental edge.

pigam
Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:22 PM
Those are all pretty close matches.
These two have played some great matches! Strating with the very first on :bowdown:

Justinefan
Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:24 PM
Lindsay proved that she can compete with Justine's game by going up 4-1 at the AO, her problem is mental, Justine is so strong mentally. But if lindsay can keep positive, I think she could take her.

flyingmachine
Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:32 PM
Lindsay proved that she can compete with Justine's game by going up 4-1 at the AO, her problem is mental, Justine is so strong mentally. But if lindsay can keep positive, I think she could take her.
I'm not sure Lindsay would beat Justine if Lindsay think more positive because Justine games has move up a level since the end of last year. Lindsay is a good player that is not doubt but I think is will be even harder for Lindsay to beat Justine especailly after IW. This is not just a mental problem but also on tennis level as well.

jimbo mack
Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:38 PM
lets not re-write history here :rolleyes:

lindsay was way better back in 2000 and 2001. she's still good now, but not like she was then.

if lindsay was as good now as she was in 2001, then justine would have been an australian open quarter-finalist this year :)

sartrista7
Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:48 PM
lets not re-write history here :rolleyes:

lindsay was way better back in 2000 and 2001. she's still good now, but not like she was then.

if lindsay was as good now as she was in 2001, then justine would have been an australian open quarter-finalist this year :)

And if Justine had been as good in 2001 as she is now... Lindsay would have been the Porsche runner-up that year :)

shap_half
Apr 2nd, 2004, 11:56 PM
lets not re-write history here :rolleyes:

lindsay was way better back in 2000 and 2001. she's still good now, but not like she was then.

if lindsay was as good now as she was in 2001, then justine would have been an australian open quarter-finalist this year :)


i'm sorry but i think you are deluding yourself. even back then, lindsay struggled to defeat justine. justine was up a break in the third against lindsay at the 1999 FOand it took lindsay three sets and often winning just by a break in most of their matches. clearly that is an indication of where justine was and not lindsay. while lindsay was great then, justine already had the game to beat her and if it wasn't for justine's inability to close out matches because of her mental issues, justine would have a more favorable head to head against lindsay. and now that justine has that, lindsay can't even win sets, never the less matches.

VivalaSeles
Apr 3rd, 2004, 12:05 AM
1999 Roland Garros 2R Davenport 3-6 6-2 5-7 :) This was the match that made me a Juju fan :D

chicagofan
Apr 3rd, 2004, 12:32 AM
By the way, WOs do not count as defeats. The head-to-head is 5-2.

Couver
Apr 3rd, 2004, 12:41 AM
Isn't it a little pointless to be making this comparison now? The fact is even though those matches were close Lindsay won them, and that's what counts. History isn't going to change the results just because Justine may have been the better player.

Just like now it would appear that with her new found game and confidence Justine will probably come out on top against Lindsay in most of their future matches. I still think Lindsay has the game to beat her but at the AO and IW she didn't do it. So I can't say that the head to head should be 6-0 or whathave you.

The head to head is what it is until they play again.

LindsayRocks89
Apr 3rd, 2004, 12:43 AM
By the way, WOs do not count as defeats. The head-to-head is 5-2.

nope, its 5-3, because Lindsay lost at the aussie last year, the aussie this year, and indian wells

chicagofan
Apr 3rd, 2004, 12:45 AM
Ugh. You're right. I can't count.

Kart
Apr 3rd, 2004, 12:49 AM
Most of the matches Lindsay won were decided on one break - a clear indication that she won because Justine was mentally fragile player. I don't understand that :confused:.

At the best we've seen them so far, Lindsay is still the better player IMHO.

Justine is blatantly better on the clay by miles but Lindsay at her best would still handle her on the hard courts and indoors although the grass could go either way.

That 'Justine was inexperienced when she lost to Lindsay' argument is not really valid - Justine is starting to play her best only now where as Lindsay hasn't shown the kind of focus that saw her cruise to victory in Oz 2000 for several years. So the reverse is true also.

Still it all boils down to what each of us who actually saw them at their best thinks, not what statistics indicate ...

We've probably seen Lindsay's best :sad: but not yet Justine's - I might change my opinion in a few years time.

for-sure
Apr 3rd, 2004, 12:53 AM
How good could Davenport have been? She lost (at "her best") to MARTINA HINGIS AFTER ALL.

shap_half
Apr 3rd, 2004, 12:57 AM
I don't understand that :confused:.



what i am saying is that wins were decided with just one break and it often goes to 7-5 or 7-6 or 6-4 in lindsay's favor. eventhough justine lost those matches it wasn't because of her game being inferior to lindsay's but it was because of justine's mental fragility.

Greenout
Apr 3rd, 2004, 05:46 AM
I use to be a huge supporter of LD, now I'm a Justinehead.

This is my take. The Lindsay that use to beat Justine year's ago
was the superior player at that moment in time. These were the
days when LD never use to have her serve broken on 1st or
second serves., her return of opponents serves were clean winners
that were over in a blink of the eye. Everything happened very, very
quickly. On court, over and match point before you could get a soda
or beer to drink.

Now Justine is the superior player. An plasma flatscreen TV screen
w/ all the high tech improvements. Lindsay is older now, you can't
disagree with that. She's played so many matches, the reflexes and
mental edge that she had just isn't there anymore. Add to the fact
that Justinator is sharper, and better than ever on every shot she
had from 2001.

Heads to Heads are stats; but they fail to really give the full picture.
Injury, age, match fitness, mental confidence, etc....

bandabou
Apr 3rd, 2004, 09:08 AM
Yep....in 2000-2001 Lindsay was the better player, but right now Justine´s the better one. Simple...those things go in fases. Lindsay got injured and is older, so her game isn´t the same.

hingis-seles
Apr 3rd, 2004, 01:04 PM
Ofcourse, Lindsay was much more dominant in 1999-2001 and Justine is more dominant now 2003-2004.

But Lindsay had tough matches when she was at her best and Juju has had relatively comfortable wins when she's been the better player.