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View Full Version : Dementieve Could Join Select Company If.....


calabar
Apr 2nd, 2004, 02:00 AM
She defeats Serena in the final. She would join a handful of women who have beaten BOTH Williams in the same tournament....... Ok time to wake up and get back to reality.

bubble
Apr 2nd, 2004, 02:03 AM
It's DEMENTIEVA :rolleyes:

Justinefan
Apr 2nd, 2004, 02:03 AM
Go Lena!

for-sure
Apr 2nd, 2004, 02:03 AM
The Chances of that happening are 250,000 to 1

ys
Apr 2nd, 2004, 02:04 AM
But just wait for someone to suggest putting asterisk next to that achievement if that happen, just because Williams sisters are rusty.

Honestly, no one really did that. All who have done that so far either did it in Australia, where the sisters have never been in good form until 2003, or as Kim, at YEC, where motivation was really a big question and injuries were a factor. When someone beats them at W or USO, that would be a magnificient achievement.

- L i n a -
Apr 2nd, 2004, 02:05 AM
Asterisk because of no Christine.

IIOoIaMaGirLoOII
Apr 2nd, 2004, 02:05 AM
The Chances of that happening are 250,000 to 1just like her chance against venus

goldenlox
Apr 2nd, 2004, 02:06 AM
I'll take 20 asterisks. Just win baby!

Martian Willow
Apr 2nd, 2004, 02:22 AM
...I shall add this thread to my list of Posts To Bring Up When Williams Fans Moan About Other People Treating The Sisiters As A Single Entity... :)

maximus82
Apr 2nd, 2004, 02:33 AM
Honestly, no one really did that. All who have done that so far either did it in Australia, where the sisters have never been in good form until 2003
LOL :lol:

And why, pray tell, does Australia not count?

Perhaps we shouldn't count the matches that Hingis lost at Wimbledon? Or Amelie at the FO?

Hingis's beating both sisters counts. Kim's doesn't. And I can't remember enough about any of the others to comment.

Hantuchov
Apr 2nd, 2004, 02:35 AM
The Chances of that happening are 250,000 to 1

:lol:

Havent u learned the lesson?

lizchris
Apr 2nd, 2004, 06:41 PM
I won't put a number on it, but Elena's chances are pretty slim. According to the WTA Tour website, since 1997, the sisters have played 39 tournaments together and only four women have been able to beat them in a tournament. Of the four, only one (Aranxta Sanchez) beat them en route to a WTA tournament win, only one (Clijsters, if you consider her beating Venus, which I don't, but technically she did) did it outside of Australia, all were Grand Slam finalists and all but Kim won a Grand Slam and all at one time were number one players, which shows you have to be an exceptional player to beat both sisters in a tournment.

Martian KC
Apr 2nd, 2004, 06:52 PM
I wonder if they'd use any excuses if Elena did.:tape:

LiliaLee-Frazier
Apr 2nd, 2004, 06:53 PM
The Chances of that happening are 250,000 to 1 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: God i love you guys!!! ;) :worship: :devil:

Vass22
Apr 2nd, 2004, 06:54 PM
The Chances of that happening are 250,000 to 1
Nice joke.... Get out!!!! :D

Vass22
Apr 2nd, 2004, 06:57 PM
I wonder if they'd use any excuses if Elena did.:tape:
The chances of not having excuses is even less than of Lena's 1/250000.

SJW
Apr 2nd, 2004, 07:09 PM
sometimes i wonder about the reading comprehension of this board.

for-sure isn't a Williams fan. so by questioning his intelligence you're not questioning W/F intelligence, but rather non Williams fans (as many of you are)

bandabou
Apr 2nd, 2004, 07:16 PM
I wonder if they'd use any excuses if Elena did.:tape:

Hmmm....no that part has been reserved for Justine. " Uhm, I wasnīt my usual self, this and that."

Lady
Apr 2nd, 2004, 07:16 PM
sometimes i wonder about the reading comprehension of this board.

for-sure isn't a Williams fan. so by questioning his intelligence you're not questioning W/F intelligence, but rather non Williams fans (as many of you are)

I'm wondering the same. ;)
It's obvious that for-sure is not a WS fan, it's obvious even from his signature ;)
And it was repeated a million times :shrug: And people still don't get it!!

lizchris
Apr 2nd, 2004, 07:35 PM
I wonder if they'd use any excuses if Elena did.:tape:
She could use the same excuse Martina did when she lost the 2001 AO final to Jennifer (paraphrasing):

"I was too tired because I had to beat both sisters to get to the final and I had to play them in doubles too":rolleyes:

LiliaLee-Frazier
Apr 2nd, 2004, 07:38 PM
She defeats Serena in the final. She would join a handful of women who have beaten BOTH Williams in the same tournament....... Ok time to wake up and get back to reality. I think she can keep it close if her SERVE is on...she definetly has the ability and know how to beat serena..she also has one of the most intimidating icey stares on tour!! As does serena ( more like a PYTHON about ready to kill its prey ) ! :scared: There should be a stare down at the begining of the match instead of a coin toss!!!!! ;) :kiss:

- L i n a -
Apr 2nd, 2004, 07:40 PM
I love Lena... but I have a feeling Serena is givin' her a beatdown.

The weaknesses that Venus had, Lena took advantage of to win... those don't exist with Serena.

SelesFan70
Apr 2nd, 2004, 07:45 PM
Dementieva's serve, again I say, will drive Serena nuts. Serena is going to be blasting away at that serve..blasting them to the back wall or the bottom of the net. Dementieva has to move well and just spin the serve in if she has to! She can hit with Serena off the ground. A sliced back-hand here and there would do wonders as well. Also, she must NOT play the stare game with Serena. She needs to focus on the ball and stare at Serena at the net after the match is over.

- L i n a -
Apr 2nd, 2004, 07:47 PM
Lena tried that serve at Wimbledon... didn't work well, at all.

Serena's forehand doesn't break down like Venus'.

the cat
Apr 2nd, 2004, 07:53 PM
Well said, SelesFan70.

SJW
Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:07 PM
Dementieva's serve, again I say, will drive Serena nuts. Serena is going to be blasting away at that serve..blasting them to the back wall or the bottom of the net. Dementieva has to move well and just spin the serve in if she has to! She can hit with Serena off the ground. A sliced back-hand here and there would do wonders as well. Also, she must NOT play the stare game with Serena. She needs to focus on the ball and stare at Serena at the net after the match is over.
read the post below this one

the cat
Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:13 PM
What post Sarah?

pualeez
Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:13 PM
Who are the players and in which tournament did they actually beat both Serena and Venus?

lizchris
Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:15 PM
Who are the players and in which tournament did they actually beat both Serena and Venus?
Arantxa Sánchez-Vicario: 1998 Sydney
d. Serena 62 61 in SF; d. Venus 61 63 in Final

Steffi Graf: 1999 Sydney
d. Serena 62 36 75 in 2r; d. Venus 46 62 64 in QF

Martina Hingis: 2001 Australian Open
d. Serena 62 36 86 in QF; d. Venus 61 61 in SF

Kim Clijsters: 2002 WTA Tour Championships
d. Venus 50 ret. in SF; d. Serena 75 63 in Final

SJW
Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:16 PM
What post Sarah?
Leenah's post. Alyona tried that at wimby but it didn't work. her groundstrokes were the reason for the scoreline :)

the cat
Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:21 PM
Oh. While Elena can't serve with Serena, she can trade ground strokes with Serena. And she can run with Serena, too.

SJW
Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:23 PM
Oh. While Elena can't serve with Serena, she can trade ground strokes with Serena. And she can run with Serena, too.
which is what she's got to do. focus on getting the break.

do you remember the AI final last year? she could hardly hold her serve for shit, but i knew it would be ok cuz she was breaking like a crazy mofo.

- L i n a -
Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:24 PM
I mean that Lena's serve will be eaten up by Serena.

Lena will struggle to hold serve, every game... while Serena usually has at least a couple games where her serve is dominant.

So much for that argument that a serve doesn't determine a champion, Lena.

GoDominique
Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:29 PM
IMO Elena has a pretty good chance. Her first serves are quite good, and I do think Serena will have some problems with her 2nd serve. Elena's returns are great, and the courts seem to be quite slow, so she will have more time for her returns than on grass.

And Serena is still far from her best. You could definitely see that against Eleni.

the cat
Apr 2nd, 2004, 08:46 PM
Yes Sarah, I do remember the Amelia Island final last year when Lindsay Davenport broke Elena's serve several times yet Elena still won the title. That was amazing. :D And I expect several service breaks between Elena and Serena in the Nasdaq-100 Open final tommorow. That's the only way Elena can upset Serena.

Leenah, what would we get if we put your tremendous tennis mind in Elena's tremendous tennis body? I think we would get a graand slam singles champion. You rightly questioned Elena's ESPN interview after she beat Venus and you've stated that Elena doesn't know how to transfer her body weight dirung her serve. And you are right. Her serve is still all arm. :( Too bad you're not working with Elena. But maybe she doesn't want to hear the truth. I think Dementieva could be a much better player than she is because she has a tremendous combination of size and speed.

- L i n a -
Apr 2nd, 2004, 09:10 PM
It's very hard to teach people how to serve... I should know since that's my job. All someone can really do is erase the bad habits... like unnecessary movements, habitual low ball toss, etc... You can't teach someone the natural movements, and general coordination that's needed for a serve. Some people just can't do it. An example would be Sjeng Schalken.

With Elena... it's 2 problems. Both technique, and mentally. Like you say, Lena is all arm on her serve... and that includes her usually fine 1st serve, and the occasional 2nd serve. One can make a fine career out of that like Arantxa, Tauziat... but I think it's also part of the cause of her shoulder problems.

With her ugly 2nd serves... I think Lena thinks that it's the only way she can get them in. Whenever you see her hit a normal 2nd serve... it's usually the same pace as her 1st serve. She doesn't know how to kick, but she can still slice effectively with it. Thus, she's going to miss it at least 40% of the time.

So far, the only improvements I'm seeing is that Lena tries to toss the ball higher. That's a good start, I guess. I really don't know it can be improved any more without totally breaking down her motion.

It just gets me frustrated when she gives off the impression that it's not important, and doesn't want to work on it. She won't be a champion with what she has now... but the less of a weakness she works to make it... the closer she'll be to one.

the cat
Apr 2nd, 2004, 09:19 PM
I don't blame you for being frustrated. I am too. I've ben a fan of Elena's since 1998 and I thought she would have won a grand slam singles title by now. But I didn't know she would be satisfied by being a top 10 player and making good money. But she is. Maybe now with Olga Morozova coaching her instead of her mother Elena will make the improvements neded to become a grand slam champion. She has the physical ability. But I worry about her hunger to be a champion. :(

And improving her serve shouldn't be that hard. Elena needs to start with bending her knees to get her strong legs into the serve and more importantly take some of the wear and tear off her right shoulder and arm.

Elena does have a slightly higher ball toss now on her serve. And that's a good sign. And before the ball toss she's holding the ball on the racquet head in a slightly different way than she did before. I think the new way she is holding the ball against the racquet gives Elena a little more racquet head speed on her serve.

mboyle
Apr 2nd, 2004, 09:48 PM
no one has ever legitimately beaten both Williams sisters and then gone on to win the title. Only Martina Hingis has legitimately beaten both sisters in the same tournament (Aussie '01,) and she lost 4-6; 3-6 in the finals to Cappy. Clijsters beat Venus 5-0 ret. and then Serena in straights in LA '02, but that really doesn't count because Venus was badly BADLY injured.

the cat
Apr 2nd, 2004, 11:33 PM
Elena really could make history tomorrow. :)

tennisIlove09
Apr 2nd, 2004, 11:36 PM
no one has ever legitimately beaten both Williams sisters and then gone on to win the title. Only Martina Hingis has legitimately beaten both sisters in the same tournament (Aussie '01,) and she lost 4-6; 3-6 in the finals to Cappy. Clijsters beat Venus 5-0 ret. and then Serena in straights in LA '02, but that really doesn't count because Venus was badly BADLY injured.
Matt, why isn't Arantxa's 98 Sydney victory legt?

mboyle
Apr 2nd, 2004, 11:38 PM
Arantxa did it? Wow I really had no idea. Sorry ASV:wavey: .

tennisIlove09
Apr 2nd, 2004, 11:39 PM
98 Sydney. She beat Serena in an early round, and then Venus in the finals.

bandabou
Apr 2nd, 2004, 11:41 PM
Oh. While Elena can't serve with Serena, she can trade ground strokes with Serena. And she can run with Serena, too.

But in the end, the deciding factor will always be the serve....isnīt Elena basically a weaker version of Capriati?! Capriati too can trade groundstrokes with Serena, she can run with Serena....but she CANīT serve with Serena and we have seen the results havenīt we?!

VS Fan
Apr 3rd, 2004, 12:30 AM
Perhaps I am wrong but I thought Venus FIRST final in Australia was vs Serena in 2003. I wasn't following that closely in 1998, but I thought some of the commentators stated that prior to 2003, Venus' deepest round at this tourney was Semis vs Martina Hingis. I know that Serena lost to Venus in an earlier AO in like the second or third round, but I don't know what year.

Edit:

OOPS!: I just noticed that the references to Venus Final appearance was in Sydney, rather than the AO.....My apologies.

maximus82
Apr 3rd, 2004, 12:32 AM
bandabou - that's actually a really good analogy (elena-capriati)...I think that under normal conditions, Elena couldn't expect to have much more success against Serena than Capriati has. BUT, we have all seen that Serena hasn't been at her pre-injury level yet, so I think Elena has a chance...now, if serena came out playing like she did in early 2002, dementieva could pretty much forget about it...

Jakeev
Apr 3rd, 2004, 07:27 AM
LOL :lol:

And why, pray tell, does Australia not count?

Perhaps we shouldn't count the matches that Hingis lost at Wimbledon? Or Amelie at the FO?

Hingis's beating both sisters counts. Kim's doesn't. And I can't remember enough about any of the others to comment.
Like it or not Kim's does count.......

bandabou
Apr 3rd, 2004, 09:39 AM
bandabou - that's actually a really good analogy (elena-capriati)...I think that under normal conditions, Elena couldn't expect to have much more success against Serena than Capriati has. BUT, we have all seen that Serena hasn't been at her pre-injury level yet, so I think Elena has a chance...now, if serena came out playing like she did in early 2002, dementieva could pretty much forget about it...

O.k...so that cleared it all up. Thx.

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 3rd, 2004, 06:12 PM
wooho go serena!

lizchris
Apr 3rd, 2004, 06:26 PM
The list stays the same.

Stefwhit
Apr 3rd, 2004, 06:28 PM
The list stays the same.
No matter how much some things change, it's nice to know you can still count on some things to remain the same....thank God for Serena.