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lizchris
Apr 1st, 2004, 07:51 PM
should be a concern to the other top players. In her first tournament back from an eight month layoff, she gets to the final, something her sister or Lindsay was not able to do. In addition, Lindsay and Justine said that she would not be able to play at the level she was playing when she went out on injury. The sad part is that she isin't playing as well as Petrova but is expected to win the tournament.

Granted, many of the top players were out injured or decided not to play, but as in other cases, that 's not Serena's problem and I don't think it would have made any difference as she winning records against the top players who didn't play.

bandabou
Apr 1st, 2004, 07:55 PM
Haaaa......take this now! She still isnīt the old Serena, but look at her! Could have easily reached the final with losing a set, was unlukcky against Elena L.

But sheīs just so intense, always willing to keep on fighting. That alone makes her win many matches.

Bezz
Apr 1st, 2004, 07:55 PM
I dont think serena would have been able to swan into the finals as easily as she has if Justine, kim, Lindsay, Mauresmo and Myskina would have been here. She might have a winning head to head against them but h-t-h dont mean a thing when they get out on court. She is playing really well dont get me wrong and i expect she will be in contention for any tournament she enters, but she needs to play the best in the game at the minute and she hasnt yet. On a different note, i am sure justine, kim lindsay etc are lookin on and thinking serena is gonna make some tough competition if they have to play her. :cool:

AjdeNate!
Apr 1st, 2004, 07:56 PM
She's good, that's for sure. But her draw hasn't exactly been too challenging. Continued successes for her I'm sure! :yeah:

- L i n a -
Apr 1st, 2004, 07:57 PM
I'm sure the entire tour is SHOCKED that Serena reached the final with her incredibly difficult draw... and they're looking for new work, due to the impending failure that will result.

- L i n a -
Apr 1st, 2004, 07:58 PM
Oh... and Serena's 6-4 6-4 win today was the largest Semifinal winning margin since 2003... where Serena beat Kim 6-4 6-2.

OMG2002 SERENA LOST MORE GAMES THIS YEAR KIM SUXORZ

DelMonte
Apr 1st, 2004, 07:59 PM
I dont think serena would have been able to swan into the finals as easily as she has if Justine, kim, Lindsay, Mauresmo and Myskina would have been here. She might have a winning head to head against them but h-t-h dont mean a thing when they get out on court. She is playing really well dont get me wrong and i expect she will be in contention for any tournament she enters, but she needs to play the best in the game at the minute and she hasnt yet. On a different note, i am sure justine, kim lindsay etc are lookin on and thinking serena is gonna make some tough competition if they have to play her. :cool:

i completely agree with your analysis. meanwhile, let's congratulate serena on a magnificent comeback. no matter what happens in the final, she's done herself proud.

for-sure
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:00 PM
HELLO! only 2 top 10 players were at the event!

bandabou
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:06 PM
Of course, we all know who wasnīt there.....but then the samething can be said for Kim and Justineīs "impressive" play for almost the whole past 6 or 8 months too, then huh?!

Her draw wasnīt that difficult, but that was because Vera Z lost to Jill: her potential qrtr-finalist and withing a cry of being top 10, and Svetlana K: the hottest new thing on tour, lost to Sprem....she was seeded to meet Serena in the semiīs today....

And then in the finals either Nadia or Elena D...both are top 10 and Elena D in fact is bound to being ranked higher than Serena if she reaches the finals.

SO then I ask the next question: Was Serenaīs draw easy or was it just the other players who didnīt do their jobs?!

Isnīt that what the Juju-phites like to point out when talking about her Oz open victory and Dubai, regarding Venus being there and stuff?!

"Topaz"
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:08 PM
I'm afraid to say it but Serena seems to be almost there in just one go. Amazing!! She still needs to raise it up though to beat Justine or Kim.

I do have a theory as regards her comeback and Venus's. I'll let you in after further polishing.

lizchris
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:09 PM
HELLO! only 2 top 10 players were at the event!I think I made that point when I said the top players were not there.

Actually, the top ten that were there were:

Myskina (withdrew after the draw was completed)
Chanda (withdrew right before the draw was made)
Jennifer
Elena
Ai

So actually four top ten palyers, including Serena were at he event, just like at Indian Wells.

sartrista7
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:16 PM
SO then I ask the next question: Was Serenaīs draw easy or was it just the other players who didnīt do their jobs?!

The other players didn't do their jobs... and thus, Serena had easier opponents than she would otherwise have had.

Serena hasn't had to play the canny veterans or players with top 5 ability that Venus has been losing to... apart from Likhovtseva, who's been in dreadful form. If Venus had had Marrero, Likhovtseva, Sharapova, Craybas and Daniilidou back to back, she would have gone through them all pretty easily... with the possible exception of Eleni D.

I still favour Nadia for the title.

DelMonte
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:21 PM
I'm sure Henin, Clijsters and co are really concerned that Serena is beating Craybas, Marrero, Daniilidou and such.

In my opinion, Henin, Clijsters and Co are taking notice of Serena's progress in Miami. Serena may not have faced elite players, but beating Sharapova, Daniilidou and Likhovtseva is not Mickey-Mouse on any occasion. And to do that after a 8 month break from competitive tennis is even more remarkable-- how many other players could do that? Let's give credit where credit is due.

I am not saying that Henin, Clijsters and Co are worried that Serena is going to beat them (in fact, I strongly believe that Serena will start as the underdog if/when she faces them for the next couple of months) but I think they respect her enough as a fellow competitor to know that she is working very hard on her comeback and is meaning business.

Just my 2 cents worth.

DelMonte

CanadianBoy21
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:23 PM
Cool Canuck - Henin, Clijsters and co were beating the Craybes', Marrero's and Daniilidou's of the world when Serena was gone... so what is your point? You don't have one. Beat it!
In Serena's Slam victories she has ALWAYS had one of the toughest draws in the history, and repeadatly might I add. Justine's only Grand Slam in your viewpoint came at the French Open, correct?
Serena finally gets a break on tour with the draw in her WHOLE career and her achievements are played down????? She is ready to take over the tour, and claycourt will be less demanding on her knees, and with her power she will make the other players work hard. The only challenge to Serena is Justine, and only because it's clay coming up. Justine is the polished up Eleni Daniilidou in my opinion, and can mix it up more effectively and is physically more capable to do what is needed on the court than Eleni is. But none of the top players would be able to deal with Serena's serve. 116 mph ace already on her comeback, body serves, etc... no one has a chance against that.

lizchris
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:24 PM
I'm sure Henin, Clijsters and co are really concerned that Serena is beating Craybas, Marrero, Daniilidou and such.
Consdiering they were beating players who were ranked lower:rolleyes:

tennischick
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:28 PM
it's quite simple. Serena Williams has the POTENTIAL to be the greatest women's tennis player EVER. it's up to her to decide if this is important to her or not. i hope it is.

XMan
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:30 PM
should be a concern to the other top players. In her first tournament back from an eight month layoff, she gets to the final, something her sister or Lindsay was not able to do. In addition, Lindsay and Justine said that she would not be able to play at the level she was playing when she went out on injury. The sad part is that she isin't playing as well as Petrova but is expected to win the tournament.

Granted, many of the top players were out injured or decided not to play, but as in other cases, that 's not Serena's problem and I don't think it would have made any difference as she winning records against the top players who didn't play.
If this would be a concern to Justine or Kim then they won't be top players. I think they are beyond that mental stage now. And, although Serena couldn't but play the players she met, it still remains a fact that she HAD an easy draw. There is not much that gives you any idea how she would play against the real top players. The fact that she lost a set against Likhotseva and the fact that she need to work against Danilidou doesn't give me the impression that she would just destroy all her rivals at this moment.

harloo
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:33 PM
While I still don't think Serena is at the level she was at before she left, she has sent a message that she will be just as tough in her comeback.

She has been out for 8 months, and it's great she has came back to reach the finals. However, I will not sit up here and act like the players she beat were great players. They did challenge Serena a little, but not fully.

Also, just like I have always talked about all the tournaments that Justine& Kim were in and had cakewalk draws, I will say that Rena's was not that challenging for her. Sharapova put up a good fight, and Elena worked her but other than that Serena was fine.

What I find amazing about Serena is that her technique is holding up very strong. She is serving unbelievably, and if she continues to play she will continue to improve her game.

I predict when she is finally back to form, she will be a better opponent than before. So, Justine and Kim better get her while she's not in form or get her on clay.
:) ;)

bandabou
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:35 PM
The other players didn't do their jobs... and thus, Serena had easier opponents than she would otherwise have had.

Serena hasn't had to play the canny veterans or players with top 5 ability that Venus has been losing to... apart from Likhovtseva, who's been in dreadful form. If Venus had had Marrero, Likhovtseva, Sharapova, Craybas and Daniilidou back to back, she would have gone through them all pretty easily... with the possible exception of Eleni D.

I still favour Nadia for the title.

Hahahaha....you favor Nadia for the title?! Well, she still has to REACH the finals, doesnīt she?! ANd about Sharapova....if my memory serves me well, she had WAAAAYYYYYYYY more trouble with Maria than Serena had, no?!

And why didnīt you answer the rest of my question?!

wayitis
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:40 PM
it's quite simple. Serena Williams has the POTENTIAL to be the greatest women's tennis player EVER. it's up to her to decide if this is important to her or not. i hope it is.

if Serena ever decides to go after that, Navratilova will come back from retirement just to try to derail her path... :lol:

Mrs. Peel
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:42 PM
I dont think serena would have been able to swan into the finals as easily as she has if Justine, kim, Lindsay, Mauresmo and Myskina would have been here. She might have a winning head to head against them but h-t-h dont mean a thing when they get out on court. She is playing really well dont get me wrong and i expect she will be in contention for any tournament she enters, but she needs to play the best in the game at the minute and she hasnt yet. On a different note, i am sure justine, kim lindsay etc are lookin on and thinking serena is gonna make some tough competition if they have to play her. :cool:
You mean to tell me she would draw all of those players? :confused:

bandabou
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:42 PM
While I still don't think Serena is at the level she was at before she left, she has sent a message that she will be just as tough in her comeback.

She has been out for 8 months, and it's great she has came back to reach the finals. However, I will not sit up here and act like the players she beat were great players. They did challenge Serena a little, but not fully.

Also, just like I have always talked about all the tournaments that Justine& Kim were in and had cakewalk draws, I will say that Rena's was not that challenging for her. Sharapova put up a good fight, and Elena worked her but other than that Serena was fine.

What I find amazing about Serena is that her technique is holding up very strong. She is serving unbelievably, and if she continues to play she will continue to improve her game.

I predict when she is finally back to form, she will be a better opponent than before. So, Justine and Kim better get her while she's not in form or get her on clay.
:) ;)


Exactly....that is what matters...the opponents havenīt been great, but her techniques have been looking good, including her serves.. when sheīs fully back, hmmmm...

Mrs. Peel
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:43 PM
:worship: Cool Canuck - Henin, Clijsters and co were beating the Craybes', Marrero's and Daniilidou's of the world when Serena was gone... so what is your point? You don't have one. Beat it!
In Serena's Slam victories she has ALWAYS had one of the toughest draws in the history, and repeadatly might I add. Justine's only Grand Slam in your viewpoint came at the French Open, correct?
Serena finally gets a break on tour with the draw in her WHOLE career and her achievements are played down????? She is ready to take over the tour, and claycourt will be less demanding on her knees, and with her power she will make the other players work hard. The only challenge to Serena is Justine, and only because it's clay coming up. Justine is the polished up Eleni Daniilidou in my opinion, and can mix it up more effectively and is physically more capable to do what is needed on the court than Eleni is. But none of the top players would be able to deal with Serena's serve. 116 mph ace already on her comeback, body serves, etc... no one has a chance against that.:worship:

Justinefan
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:45 PM
I must say i am very impressed by serena's comeback

lizchris
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:45 PM
If this would be a concern to Justine or Kim then they won't be top players. I think they are beyond that mental stage now. And, although Serena couldn't but play the players she met, it still remains a fact that she HAD an easy draw. There is not much that gives you any idea how she would play against the real top players. The fact that she lost a set against Likhotseva and the fact that she need to work against Danilidou doesn't give me the impression that she would just destroy all her rivals at this moment.
If that was the case for Justine, then why say Sererna would have trouble when she initally came back? That is the reason why I started the thread because she and Lindsay said she would have trouble upon her return. Easy draw or not, if she wins the title on Saturday, if I were them, especially Lindsay, I'd take notice.

Stefwhit
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:46 PM
I think I made that point when I said the top players were not there.

Actually, the top ten that were there were:

Myskina (withdrew after the draw was completed)
Chanda (withdrew right before the draw was made)
Jennifer
Elena
Ai

So actually four top ten palyers, including Serena were at he event, just like at Indian Wells.
OK I think as far as fans go, I'm as open minded and fair as they come, but comments about the lack of top players used as an indicators to suggest Serena's wins aren't meaningful and impressive are comical. These are the same arguments that can be thrown back at almost everyone in the current top ten that have a higher ranking now than they had eight months ago! I'm one of the few who doesn't take anything away from Graf in Seles' absence, nor do disregard Hingis' results in the absence of Steffi, and I "sure"ly don't take anything away from what Justine accomplished when Serena was out, so I'm not going to start now that Serena's won a tournament (if she does win,) that not all the top names were at....isn't that somewhat of a double standard??

The last time all the top contenders were healthy and ready to compete was way back over 2 years ago...
03- Australian open- Jennifer suffering with eyes
03- French- Venus suffering with stomach
03- Wimby- Seles out
03- US- Venus, Serena, Lindsay still dealing with foot injury,
04- Oz- Serena, Mauresmo, Jennifer, Seles, Kim dealing with foot issue
....those are just a few of the recent injuries

HELLO! Only 2 top 10 players were at the event!
You can't have your cake and eat it too... If you're criticising the lack of depth blame the top players who chose not to play. And if that's really you're view then explain to me the significance of Justines accomplishments at both the US and Oz when both the defending champion and last year's runner up were both out with injury?

lizchris
Apr 1st, 2004, 08:49 PM
OK I think as far as fans go, I'm as open minded and fair as they come, but comments about the lack of top players used as an indicators to suggest Serena's wins aren't meaningful and impressive are comical. These are the same arguments that can be thrown back at almost everyone in the current top ten that have a higher ranking now than they had eight months ago! I'm one of the few who doesn't take anything away from Graf in Seles' absence, nor do disregard Hingis' results in the absence of Steffi, and I "sure"ly don't take anything away from what Justine accomplished when Serena was out, so I'm not going to start now that Serena's won a tournament (if she does win,) that not all the top names were at....isn't that somewhat of a double standard??

The last time all the top contenders were healthy and ready to compete was way back over 2 years ago...
03- Australian open- Jennifer suffering with eyes
03- French- Venus suffering with stomach
03- Wimby- Seles out
03- US- Venus, Serena, Lindsay still dealing with foot injury,
04- Oz- Serena, Mauresmo, Jennifer, Seles, Kim dealing with foot issue
....those are just a few of the recent injuries


You can't have your cake and eat it too... If you're criticising the lack of depth blame the top players who chose not to play. And if that's really you're view then explain to me the significance of Justines accomplishments at both the US and Oz when both the defending champion and last year's runner up were both out with injury?
:worship: :worship:

bandabou
Apr 1st, 2004, 09:00 PM
OK I think as far as fans go, I'm as open minded and fair as they come, but comments about the lack of top players used as an indicators to suggest Serena's wins aren't meaningful and impressive are comical. These are the same arguments that can be thrown back at almost everyone in the current top ten that have a higher ranking now than they had eight months ago! I'm one of the few who doesn't take anything away from Graf in Seles' absence, nor do disregard Hingis' results in the absence of Steffi, and I "sure"ly don't take anything away from what Justine accomplished when Serena was out, so I'm not going to start now that Serena's won a tournament (if she does win,) that not all the top names were at....isn't that somewhat of a double standard??

The last time all the top contenders were healthy and ready to compete was way back over 2 years ago...
03- Australian open- Jennifer suffering with eyes
03- French- Venus suffering with stomach
03- Wimby- Seles out
03- US- Venus, Serena, Lindsay still dealing with foot injury,
04- Oz- Serena, Mauresmo, Jennifer, Seles, Kim dealing with foot issue
....those are just a few of the recent injuries


You can't have your cake and eat it too... If you're criticising the lack of depth blame the top players who chose not to play. And if that's really you're view then explain to me the significance of Justines accomplishments at both the US and Oz when both the defending champion and last year's runner up were both out with injury?


Man, youīre good!

Martian KC
Apr 1st, 2004, 09:01 PM
Did serena even face a top 20 player in the tournament?:o

Mrs. Peel
Apr 1st, 2004, 09:02 PM
OK I think as far as fans go, I'm as open minded and fair as they come, but comments about the lack of top players used as an indicators to suggest Serena's wins aren't meaningful and impressive are comical. These are the same arguments that can be thrown back at almost everyone in the current top ten that have a higher ranking now than they had eight months ago! I'm one of the few who doesn't take anything away from Graf in Seles' absence, nor do disregard Hingis' results in the absence of Steffi, and I "sure"ly don't take anything away from what Justine accomplished when Serena was out, so I'm not going to start now that Serena's won a tournament (if she does win,) that not all the top names were at....isn't that somewhat of a double standard??

The last time all the top contenders were healthy and ready to compete was way back over 2 years ago...
03- Australian open- Jennifer suffering with eyes
03- French- Venus suffering with stomach
03- Wimby- Seles out
03- US- Venus, Serena, Lindsay still dealing with foot injury,
04- Oz- Serena, Mauresmo, Jennifer, Seles, Kim dealing with foot issue
....those are just a few of the recent injuries


You can't have your cake and eat it too... If you're criticising the lack of depth blame the top players who chose not to play. And if that's really you're view then explain to me the significance of Justines accomplishments at both the US and Oz when both the defending champion and last year's runner up were both out with injury? :bigclap: :bigclap: :bigclap: :bigclap:

ptkten
Apr 1st, 2004, 09:04 PM
:rolleyes: at everyone trying to diminish Serena's accomplishment. She just came back from an 8 month layoff and made the finals of a tier 1 event. Now if that isn't a good comeback, then I don't know what is.

bandabou
Apr 1st, 2004, 09:11 PM
:lol: And donīt even talk about Justine winning Canada beating Lina K( ever heard of her again?) in the finals! Now that was a hard draw!!

Plus there was a run at the beginning of the year, where almost every tournament winner was winning without even facing a top 15 player. So donīt come here and try diminish Serenaīs achievement......this is her first tournament back and hard draw or not, reaching a tier I final in your first event after 8 months is an acomplishment.

lizchris
Apr 1st, 2004, 09:14 PM
Did serena even face a top 20 player in the tournament?:o
I don't think so. Sharapova will be in the top 20 next week, but that doesn't count. But she might be if Petrova wins.

alfajeffster
Apr 1st, 2004, 09:17 PM
:lol: And donīt even talk about Justine winning Canada beating Lina K( ever heard of her again?) in the finals! Now that was a hard draw!!

Plus there was a run at the beginning of the year, where almost every tournament winner was winning without even facing a top 15 player. So donīt come here and try diminish Serenaīs achievement......this is her first tournament back and hard draw or not, reaching a tier I final in your first event after 8 months is an acomplishment.It's a MAJOR accomplishment, and she'll probably win too- which is even more amazing. The fact that Capriati and Venus just don't seem to be into their tennis for at least a year now, and the other top players either skipped Key Biscayne or were injured doesn't mean squat here. Serena does look rusty, but she dealt with VERY difficult conditions for tennis- wind and rain interruptions like almost no other place on the tour- and she played through it and has showed a champion's heart throughout. I'm SOOO happy she's back!

DelMonte
Apr 1st, 2004, 09:19 PM
It's not a question of diminishing anyone accomplishment... It's just that there are no reason for other players to start to be "concerned"...

Did Serena start to be worried by Justine when she won Toronto... Please.

It's not a matter of being 'concerned' or 'worried' but a matter of taking note of the good results of your fellow competitors who you respect. I am very certain that Serena has taken notice of Justine's results over the last few months and I am pretty certain that the top players are watching Serena in Miami. Is that such as an unreasonable scenario?

bandabou
Apr 1st, 2004, 09:30 PM
It's a MAJOR accomplishment, and she'll probably win too- which is even more amazing. The fact that Capriati and Venus just don't seem to be into their tennis for at least a year now, and the other top players either skipped Key Biscayne or were injured doesn't mean squat here. Serena does look rusty, but she dealt with VERY difficult conditions for tennis- wind and rain interruptions like almost no other place on the tour- and she played through it and has showed a champion's heart throughout. I'm SOOO happy she's back!

Word!!

Veritas
Apr 1st, 2004, 09:31 PM
Seeing that Serena can still hand devasting wins and solid results after an 8-month lay-off, then I'd :drool: to think just how awesome she would be when she returns to her "normal" form.

tennisjunky
Apr 3rd, 2004, 07:28 AM
OK I think as far as fans go, I'm as open minded and fair as they come, but comments about the lack of top players used as an indicators to suggest Serena's wins aren't meaningful and impressive are comical. These are the same arguments that can be thrown back at almost everyone in the current top ten that have a higher ranking now than they had eight months ago! I'm one of the few who doesn't take anything away from Graf in Seles' absence, nor do disregard Hingis' results in the absence of Steffi, and I "sure"ly don't take anything away from what Justine accomplished when Serena was out, so I'm not going to start now that Serena's won a tournament (if she does win,) that not all the top names were at....isn't that somewhat of a double standard??

The last time all the top contenders were healthy and ready to compete was way back over 2 years ago...
03- Australian open- Jennifer suffering with eyes
03- French- Venus suffering with stomach
03- Wimby- Seles out
03- US- Venus, Serena, Lindsay still dealing with foot injury,
04- Oz- Serena, Mauresmo, Jennifer, Seles, Kim dealing with foot issue
....those are just a few of the recent injuries


You can't have your cake and eat it too... If you're criticising the lack of depth blame the top players who chose not to play. And if that's really you're view then explain to me the significance of Justines accomplishments at both the US and Oz when both the defending champion and last year's runner up were both out with injury?
:worship: :worship:

DeDe4925
Apr 3rd, 2004, 07:39 AM
Of course, we all know who wasnīt there.....but then the samething can be said for Kim and Justineīs "impressive" play for almost the whole past 6 or 8 months too, then huh?!

Her draw wasnīt that difficult, but that was because Vera Z lost to Jill: her potential qrtr-finalist and withing a cry of being top 10, and Svetlana K: the hottest new thing on tour, lost to Sprem....she was seeded to meet Serena in the semiīs today....

And then in the finals either Nadia or Elena D...both are top 10 and Elena D in fact is bound to being ranked higher than Serena if she reaches the finals.

SO then I ask the next question: Was Serenaīs draw easy or was it just the other players who didnīt do their jobs?!

Isnīt that what the Juju-phites like to point out when talking about her Oz open victory and Dubai, regarding Venus being there and stuff?!
Great post.
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

DeDe4925
Apr 3rd, 2004, 07:41 AM
In my opinion, Henin, Clijsters and Co are taking notice of Serena's progress in Miami. Serena may not have faced elite players, but beating Sharapova, Daniilidou and Likhovtseva is not Mickey-Mouse on any occasion. And to do that after a 8 month break from competitive tennis is even more remarkable-- how many other players could do that? Let's give credit where credit is due.

I am not saying that Henin, Clijsters and Co are worried that Serena is going to beat them (in fact, I strongly believe that Serena will start as the underdog if/when she faces them for the next couple of months) but I think they respect her enough as a fellow competitor to know that she is working very hard on her comeback and is meaning business.

Just my 2 cents worth.

DelMonte

Great post
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

DeDe4925
Apr 3rd, 2004, 07:44 AM
Cool Canuck - Henin, Clijsters and co were beating the Craybes', Marrero's and Daniilidou's of the world when Serena was gone... so what is your point? You don't have one. Beat it!
In Serena's Slam victories she has ALWAYS had one of the toughest draws in the history, and repeadatly might I add. Justine's only Grand Slam in your viewpoint came at the French Open, correct?
Serena finally gets a break on tour with the draw in her WHOLE career and her achievements are played down????? She is ready to take over the tour, and claycourt will be less demanding on her knees, and with her power she will make the other players work hard. The only challenge to Serena is Justine, and only because it's clay coming up. Justine is the polished up Eleni Daniilidou in my opinion, and can mix it up more effectively and is physically more capable to do what is needed on the court than Eleni is. But none of the top players would be able to deal with Serena's serve. 116 mph ace already on her comeback, body serves, etc... no one has a chance against that.
Cool Canuck always downplays anything the Sisters do. She never gives credit where it's due. She's the Queen of Devaluation. :p

DeDe4925
Apr 3rd, 2004, 07:48 AM
Of course it's remarquable... But is it surprising? My point was more that why would other players be concerned by her now...? I think we all know she's a champion, and she's always dangerous.
Do I hear the pitter patter of back-peddling? :lol:
Now you give the credit once you're pinned behind the 8-ball with no logical retort. And, please don't insult our intelligence by saying that you weren't being sarcastic and invalidating Serena's achievement in this tournament, thus far, with that comment. :rolleyes:

tennisjunky
Apr 3rd, 2004, 07:52 AM
A lot of really great posts in this thread!!!

DeDe4925
Apr 3rd, 2004, 07:54 AM
If this would be a concern to Justine or Kim then they won't be top players. I think they are beyond that mental stage now. And, although Serena couldn't but play the players she met, it still remains a fact that she HAD an easy draw. There is not much that gives you any idea how she would play against the real top players. The fact that she lost a set against Likhotseva and the fact that she need to work against Danilidou doesn't give me the impression that she would just destroy all her rivals at this moment.
I don't think anyone is saying that she would destroy her rivals at the moment. The point is, that they won't destroy her. It's not going to be the cakewalk Justine thought it would be. Besides, we don't really have any idea how good Justine and Kim are because they haven't been challenged this past eight months with the best tennis on the tour either. The fact is not that Serena needs work against anyone. The fact is, she is still rusty. The things she did naturally on court eight months ago, e.g. constructing points, staying focused, being patient and being a little more consistent with her shots, she has to think about now. She just needs more match play. I think, barring any injuries, by the time the next slam comes about, she will be 100%.

azza
Apr 3rd, 2004, 07:55 AM
sge lost a set to Elena L nuf sayed.

DeDe4925
Apr 3rd, 2004, 08:00 AM
OK I think as far as fans go, I'm as open minded and fair as they come, but comments about the lack of top players used as an indicators to suggest Serena's wins aren't meaningful and impressive are comical. These are the same arguments that can be thrown back at almost everyone in the current top ten that have a higher ranking now than they had eight months ago! I'm one of the few who doesn't take anything away from Graf in Seles' absence, nor do disregard Hingis' results in the absence of Steffi, and I "sure"ly don't take anything away from what Justine accomplished when Serena was out, so I'm not going to start now that Serena's won a tournament (if she does win,) that not all the top names were at....isn't that somewhat of a double standard??

The last time all the top contenders were healthy and ready to compete was way back over 2 years ago...
03- Australian open- Jennifer suffering with eyes
03- French- Venus suffering with stomach
03- Wimby- Seles out
03- US- Venus, Serena, Lindsay still dealing with foot injury,
04- Oz- Serena, Mauresmo, Jennifer, Seles, Kim dealing with foot issue
....those are just a few of the recent injuries


You can't have your cake and eat it too... If you're criticising the lack of depth blame the top players who chose not to play. And if that's really you're view then explain to me the significance of Justines accomplishments at both the US and Oz when both the defending champion and last year's runner up were both out with injury?
Great post!
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Kirt12255
Apr 3rd, 2004, 08:30 AM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah!!!!

Serena is back, yay (The game needs her back and great to see her back), however she could play at 70% and still make a final.

I'll just sit here and wax my arse-hairs until something interesting happens in the WTA.:wavey: IMO

faste5683
Apr 3rd, 2004, 11:42 AM
The only challenge to Serena is Justine, and only because it's clay coming up. Justine is the polished up Eleni Daniilidou in my opinion, and can mix it up more effectively and is physically more capable to do what is needed on the court than Eleni ist.

That's quite an opinion.

:haha:

:wavey:

bandabou
Apr 3rd, 2004, 11:48 AM
But it is true, faste....Justine is always gonna be dangerous for Serena on clay. The way it is.

turt
Apr 3rd, 2004, 12:28 PM
... and Serena is always gonna be dangerous for Justine on hardcourts. The way it is.

But I think Justine will go on winning more to Serena than the opposite. Actually it has already begun (Justine won twice in 3 matches last year), and now Justine is a much more solid player than she was last time she played Serena, and she has that extra-confidence that the number one players have.

Okay, Serena has made an incredible job by going to the final of her first tournament since 8 months, especially since it's a "super Tier I", but first of all she said in january that her knee was fine, so she probably had plenty of time to practice and she came back when she felt she was in "championship shape" as she claimed she would, and winning against top 20 players or lower doesn't mean she will crush the top 10 or top 5, and I don't even talk about winning against Justine!

bandabou
Apr 3rd, 2004, 12:40 PM
... and Serena is always gonna be dangerous for Justine on hardcourts. The way it is.

But I think Justine will go on winning more to Serena than the opposite. Actually it has already begun (Justine won twice in 3 matches last year), and now Justine is a much more solid player than she was last time she played Serena, and she has that extra-confidence that the number one players have.

Okay, Serena has made an incredible job by going to the final of her first tournament since 8 months, especially since it's a "super Tier I", but first of all she said in january that her knee was fine, so she probably had plenty of time to practice and she came back when she felt she was in "championship shape" as she claimed she would, and winning against top 20 players or lower doesn't mean she will crush the top 10 or top 5, and I don't even talk about winning against Justine!

Winning on what?! On clay?! Thatīs always been the case....winning on hardcourts?! Hmm.... donīt think so.

Of course, we all know Serena isnīt all the way back...but donīt declare Justine the superior player just yet...Serena still has something to say about that.

mykarma
Apr 3rd, 2004, 01:03 PM
I'm sure Henin, Clijsters and co are really concerned that Serena is beating Craybas, Marrero, Daniilidou and such.
They'd better be concerned that Serena came back after 8 months and made it out of the first round never mind making it to the finals. :bounce: :yippee:

mykarma
Apr 3rd, 2004, 01:11 PM
I must say i am very impressed by serena's comeback

And I'm impressed by your post. :worship: :worship: :worship:

mykarma
Apr 3rd, 2004, 01:20 PM
It's not a question of diminishing anyone accomplishment... It's just that there are no reason for other players to start to be "concerned"...

Did Serena start to be worried by Justine when she won Toronto... Please.
Please, Justine wasn't the player that Serena is, so why would Serena have been concerned about her or anyone else at that time. She was beating anyone they put on the other side of the court.

Bright Red
Apr 3rd, 2004, 02:43 PM
Cool Canuck - Henin, Clijsters and co were beating the [likes of] Craybes', Marrero's and Daniilidou's of the world when Serena was gone... so what is your point? You don't have one. Beat it!
LOL. That's exactly what I was thinking! However, the Williams and the Belgians ALL still have something to prove once the Williams Sisters get back up to speed. Then we shall all see without a doubt who's the best of the best.

My bet is on Serena.

bandabou
Apr 3rd, 2004, 03:48 PM
LOL. That's exactly what I was thinking! However, the Williams and the Belgians ALL still have something to prove once the Williams Sisters get back up to speed. Then we shall all see without a doubt who's the best of the best.

My bet is on Serena.

Very good bet. wise people all bet on Serena.

turt
Apr 3rd, 2004, 04:14 PM
Very good bet. wise people all bet on Serena.
I don't.

bandabou
Apr 3rd, 2004, 04:26 PM
I don't.

and you know what that means, donīt you?

Chandafan13
Apr 3rd, 2004, 04:47 PM
I agree with a point that was made by another user: how can some fans sit here and try and take away from Serena's comeback because she hasnt had to be challenged by Henin-Hardenne and Clijsters when those two's biggest successes came when Serena and Venus were off the tour? Granted they did pull wins against them but does anyone here honestly think the U.S. Open would have been an all-Belgium final if the William sisters were there? Anyone that can say that that would have happened anyway with a straight face amazes me. Serena has played a phenomenal tournament and should be comended considering the circumstances. She can't be held accountable for other top players going out in the earlier rounds, which may have set up a slightly easier, not easy but easier, draw for herself. And even if everything would have gone through as predicted, she still would have made it this far I believe. As has also been said, it is not only Serena's physical strength that are making this comeback start so sucessful but her mental ones as well. Even when she is down and is starting to lose momentem, the thought of losing never even crosses her mind and she manages to fight back.. thats a champion. Perfect example is the SF against Clijsters last year at the Aussie Open when she was down in the third and had to fight off those match points. She has proved herself the best way she could and even the Clijsters and Henin-Hardenne fans should recognize it as some of them are, but those who try and take away from these accomplishments are just making excuses. Let the game play speak for itself, because with the serve being as on as it is right now, Serena is going to take down the top 2 quick, and when that happens, I'de love to hear the excuses some of these haters come up ith next.

bandabou
Apr 3rd, 2004, 04:50 PM
I agree with a point that was made by another user: how can some fans sit here and try and take away from Serena's comeback because she hasnt had to be challenged by Henin-Hardenne and Clijsters when those two's biggest successes came when Serena and Venus were off the tour? Granted they did pull wins against them but does anyone here honestly think the U.S. Open would have been an all-Belgium final if the William sisters were there? Anyone that can say that that would have happened anyway with a straight face amazes me. Serena has played a phenomenal tournament and should be comended considering the circumstances. She can't be held accountable for other top players going out in the earlier rounds, which may have set up a slightly easier, not easy but easier, draw for herself. And even if everything would have gone through as predicted, she still would have made it this far I believe. As has also been said, it is not only Serena's physical strength that are making this comeback start so sucessful but her mental ones as well. Even when she is down and is starting to lose momentem, the thought of losing never even crosses her mind and she manages to fight back.. thats a champion. Perfect example is the SF against Clijsters last year at the Aussie Open when she was down in the third and had to fight off those match points. She has proved herself the best way she could and even the Clijsters and Henin-Hardenne fans should recognize it as some of them are, but those who try and take away from these accomplishments are just making excuses. Let the game play speak for itself, because with the serve being as on as it is right now, Serena is going to take down the top 2 quick, and when that happens, I'de love to hear the excuses some of these haters come up ith next.

Man, youīre REAL good!