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"Topaz"
Feb 15th, 2004, 07:16 PM
The Williams sisters need a new coach for ... motivation, direction, focus and muscle-strength training. Well, we've been clamoring that for more than two years. This time, it's more critical than ever. Remember how these kids got where they are: they had Richard waking them up early in the morning to hit the court. He's been there day in day out throughout their development. He set the goals and honed their focus; he was driven, hungry and imaginative. Often, he even drew the wrath of Oracene for been so smitten with tennis.

Now, have we seen Richard lately? He had to let go; the sisters have grown up, …way up. On their own, they discovered there was more than tennis in life. The American culture flashed several success avenues before their eyes, and temptations set in. They did achieve entry into the celebrity world, a world that is known to be addictive. At the same time, they've seen their archrival Hingis gone, they’ve seen countless of other players on their way out due to injuries, and they are conscious of their own injuries. This whole tennis adventure may be called into question. Then comes death in the family to top it off. Ahh! What is life? What is all this fame and fortune? Is it all a mirage that can be gone in a flash? Philosophical thoughts that can engulf one’s mind.

At this crossroad, the Willis need a makeover. The competition, as exemplified by Kim and Justine, is not letting up. Any attempt at coming back requires their complete dedication. Oracene can't bring it; at least I don't see it. Richard has done his part. Now it takes a new coach (a la Justine's or Agassi's former coach) who breathes success on the court, success on the tour, and can plan for it with short-term milestones and long-term objectives. Maybe two such coaches, one for each sister.

What say you?

"Topaz"
Feb 15th, 2004, 08:17 PM
Also, a little overhaul in some shots would help a long way.

bandabou
Feb 15th, 2004, 08:28 PM
Also, a little overhaul in some shots would help a long way.

For Venus, not for Serena....Serena is solid, real solid.

But I do agree with the thesis. Maybe Oracene is just TOOOOOO laid-back for the sisters.

Infiniti2001
Feb 15th, 2004, 08:40 PM
While I think Venus could use the expertise of a serving coach-- I respectfully disagree with your reasoning. It's stupid to start suggesting all kinds of changes when they aren't playing DUE TO INJURY. It's impossible to tell when they CAN'T play exactly what shape their motivation, direction, focus and muscle-strength training is in. How's Jennifer's , Amelie's, Anna's? How were Chanda's and Lindsay's when they were out for excruciatingly long periods of time? This is all pointless, empty speculation. They may be in GREAT shape in terms of motivation and focus but can't play because they're HURT. And if the competition is "exemplified" by Justine and Kim, based on how they looked at the OZ, there should be no problems. :tape:

jbone_0307
Feb 15th, 2004, 08:47 PM
While I think Venus could use the expertise of a serving coach-- I respectfully disagree with your reasoning. It's stupid to start suggesting all kinds of changes when they aren't playing DUE TO INJURY. It's impossible to tell when they CAN'T play exactly what shape their motivation, direction, focus and muscle-strength training is in. How's Jennifer's , Amelie's, Anna's? How were Chanda's and Lindsay's when they were out for excruciatingly long periods of time? This is all pointless, empty speculation. They may be in GREAT shape in terms of motivation and focus but can't play because they're HURT. And if the competition is "exemplified" by Justine and Kim, based on how they looked at the OZ, there should be no problems. :tape:

Well look who had problems at the Australian Open, getting Routed by Lisa Raymond, and then Lisa getting the beat down by Schyder and then by Kim.

Infiniti2001
Feb 15th, 2004, 08:50 PM
Well look who had problems at the Australian Open, getting Routed by Lisa Raymond, and then Lisa getting the beat down by Schyder and then by Kim.

Is that all you could contribute to the topic ?? :rolleyes: :tape:

for-sure
Feb 15th, 2004, 08:54 PM
The sisters need to get their fat asses back on the court and off the catwalks

azinna
Feb 15th, 2004, 09:44 PM
Venus definitely needs both a serving coach and a new trainer, whose expertise is in preventing injuries. Sampras was quite friable in the early 1990s, till he hired someone who could keep him on the tour long enough to allow for history to unfold. Venus needs this bad.

Nothing from last season gave me concern for Rena. She basically has this knee injury, and her comeback will be a little bumpy. But if she can get to 80% of 2003 form (not even talking about 2002) by May, she'll be good to go.

As for morale/dedication to the sport. I haven't of cheerleading coaches making much of a difference once players get into their 20s. The dedication (whether it be Sampras or Agassi, Capriati or Graf) must eventually come from within. Otherwise the coach ends up nagging, and you end up firing him anyway.

"Topaz"
Feb 15th, 2004, 09:48 PM
Infiniti, hold your artillery. This is not the first time Venus got injured. This has been on going for more than two years. The abdominal strain took her out for six months but she's been hurting herself in wrists, legs, knees, ankles, hamstrings for quite a while. Granted she's not alone in that department.

Anybody with a clear sight can detect that a good deal of this is due to subjecting her body to explosive thrusts on an on-and-off basis. If you keep a steady regime, your muscles respond within their elastic ranges when pushed; otherwise, they over-stretch and they, as well as the tendons, can hurt.

At a younger age (say, teen), an athlete can afford this kind of on-off approach. But beyond 20, and specially at 24, one must keep in top shape (or near) continuously.

Again, I think an enthusiastic professional coach would help in that regard. He/she can introduce some new or refined body-preserving techniques as well.

As for Serena specifically, same deal even though I don't know much where she stands. Hopefully, she's getting fit. Steadiness is the key determinant here; it's harder to achieve alone than with a committed help.

flyingmachine
Feb 15th, 2004, 09:58 PM
I think the Williams needs a new coarch and a new trainer.
It sounds Venus is not training well being injured again and only play a few matches. :rolleyes:
I think it also give then a different prespective to their game but this is depends on their are they up for the challenge.

nander
Feb 16th, 2004, 12:45 AM
I posted a similar psot after Australia but no one seemed to pay any attention. It has been clear to me for a while that there is need for some new approaches, especially for Venus.
Also certainly these days, part of training is to ensure minimal injuries.



QUOTE=flyingmachine]I think the Williams needs a new coarch and a new trainer.
It sounds Venus is not training well being injured again and only play a few matches. :rolleyes:
I think it also give then a different prespective to their game but this is depends on their are they up for the challenge.[/QUOTE]

tennnisfannn
Feb 16th, 2004, 02:12 AM
By some of the reasoning here it sounds like only Carlos Rodrigues is doing any work. Should Kim, Lindsay, and everyone else get a different coach then. There is no denying the results Oracene has gotten out of her girls, there is however still room for improvement. A different perspective may help. Melanie molitor was easliy the best coach for al time. her daughter sits sidelined for ever. I don't mean to over simplify situations but we cannot blame injuries on Coaches. All sorts of players do get injured, others more a few more times.
The only concern for Oracene IMO would be whether she hasn't gotten too much on her plate now, not only does she have to be a mother but be a mother to her grandchildren as well now. Those kids look between 6 and 9 and therefore a very demanding stage.

VRULES
Feb 16th, 2004, 02:45 AM
Well look who had problems at the Australian Open, getting Routed by Lisa Raymond, and then Lisa getting the beat down by Schyder and then by Kim.
routed:rolleyes: , you obviously didn'T watch the match. YOu don't have 14 aces and over 30 winners and get routed. It was a 6-4 7-6 win, not a 6-1 6-2. Venus wasn't agressive enough, and Lisa had the match of her life. But it definetly wasn't a routing!

moby
Feb 16th, 2004, 09:41 AM
i dont think venus needs a new coach
she needs her father back again
she was awful last year but when her father came to wimby, she was a different player

Paneru
Feb 16th, 2004, 11:04 AM
i dont think venus needs a new coach
she needs her father back again
she was awful last year but when her father came to wimby, she was a different player

ITA, she needs Richard.

II too think Venus is a totally different player when Richard is around.
Venus is definitely more focused and determined when her father is around,
he has a very positive affect on her game. IMO, he seems to have more of an impact on Venus than he does on Serena.

I don't think she was awful last year, simply injured.
I wouldn't call making it to the finals of the AO and winning Antwerp awful
considering dealing with that damn injury for the remainder of her season.

Ballbuster
Feb 16th, 2004, 02:02 PM
I agree!

They seem too damn content to me. Maybe they are flash in the pans. If so, they can say good bye to continued adulation and good press.

Volcana
Feb 16th, 2004, 02:07 PM
Who's available with a better track record than their current coaches?

10 GS singles titles.
6 GS doubles titles
4 mixed doubles titles
Olympic singles Gold medal
Olympic doubles gold medal
Coached two players to #1.

Who's available who's coached players to those accomplishments?

Literally no one. Measured BY THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF THE PLAYERS THEY COACHED, Venus and Serena already have the best coaches in the game.

nander
Feb 16th, 2004, 02:59 PM
Well at least get someone or some new people for physical training.
I am not sure that the injury Hingis has can be compared to pulls and strains, i.e. bone vs muscle. Maybe someone who knows about these things could enlighten me.


Who's available with a better track record than their current coaches?

10 GS singles titles.
6 GS doubles titles
4 mixed doubles titles
Olympic singles Gold medal
Olympic doubles gold medal
Coached two players to #1.

Who's available who's coached players to those accomplishments?

Literally no one. Measured BY THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF THE PLAYERS THEY COACHED, Venus and Serena already have the best coaches in the game.

Paneru
Feb 16th, 2004, 03:26 PM
I agree!

They seem too damn content to me. Maybe they are flash in the pans. If so, they can say good bye to continued adulation and good press.

Why shouldn't they be content?

They've done very well for themselves in and out of tennis!
Venus has her company, Serena has acting,
and both have their clothing lines!

Besides, their injured and when they are ready and able they'll be back!

Serena hasn't played since July of last year and yet she's gotten more press than anyone on tour and I see no signs of it stopping!

They make their own press. Besides, when have they gotten good press from many reporters? Those reporters always take their pot shot's! Not very often have we ever seen a Williams article without the writer having some hidden agenda and taking their pot shot's!


V&S will be back! :wavey:

Joachim
Feb 16th, 2004, 03:32 PM
The Williams sisters earned much money, that is reason what They are tired of tennis

GANGSTABACKHAND!
Feb 16th, 2004, 03:37 PM
I do miss Richard. Venus does play a lot better when He is there. I wonder what happened with him!!??

Paneru
Feb 16th, 2004, 03:57 PM
The Williams sisters earned much money, that is reason what They are tired of tennis

Even if that was true, so what!

Richard decided their future before they were born after seeing how much some lady tennis player made playing one tournament! He wanted to give his girls the opportunity at a better life and he has for them, and all of his children.

Jealous much? :p


Richard has always said he wanted his girls to play at the top level for only a few years anyways! However, they are adults now and they make their own decisions with counsel from their parents.

Joachim
Feb 16th, 2004, 04:00 PM
Richard is so stupid.

flyingmachine
Feb 16th, 2004, 04:06 PM
I do miss Richard. Venus does play a lot better when He is there. I wonder what happened with him!!??

Because Oracene banned Richard. That's why!!!
The family situration in the Williams is petty bad (it's worser than the Henins)is either Mum or Dad andf it seems that both love Mum and Dad and don't want losing one of then.
Venus and Serena should start to look for a new coach and a new trainer if they wanted to continue their tennis careers. A new perspective always helps.
I'm also think Richard is a talented coach and should starts coaching other kid or yonug player this will be good for the game too but the person will have to work very very hard. It doesn't seem to me that he's a relax coach.
:rolleyes:

Gandalf
Feb 16th, 2004, 04:20 PM
I don't think they are lacking focus and determination. Serena, who is the one doing (some) modelling and going (ocassionally) to parties, seems pretty focused on her tennis to me. Maybe because she hates losing so much, she's disposed to work as hard as necessary to avoid then happening often. What I would choose is a better physical trainer.

Paneru
Feb 16th, 2004, 04:21 PM
Richard is so stupid.

Yeah, he's stupid!
Only stupidity could help produce two of
the greatest female athletes in the world! :p

Go Richard! :cool:

bandabou
Feb 16th, 2004, 04:21 PM
Who's available with a better track record than their current coaches?

10 GS singles titles.
6 GS doubles titles
4 mixed doubles titles
Olympic singles Gold medal
Olympic doubles gold medal
Coached two players to #1.

Who's available who's coached players to those accomplishments?

Literally no one. Measured BY THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF THE PLAYERS THEY COACHED, Venus and Serena already have the best coaches in the game.

Word! And they are sisters at that!!

Infiniti2001
Feb 16th, 2004, 04:35 PM
Because Oracene banned Richard. That's why!!!
The family situration in the Williams is petty bad (it's worser than the Henins)is either Mum or Dad andf it seems that both love Mum and Dad and don't want losing one of then.
Venus and Serena should start to look for a new coach and a new trainer if they wanted to continue their tennis careers. A new perspective always helps.
I'm also think Richard is a talented coach and should starts coaching other kid or yonug player this will be good for the game too but the person will have to work very very hard. It doesn't seem to me that he's a relax coach.
:rolleyes:

I take in you have the inside scoop :rolleyes:

Joachim
Feb 16th, 2004, 04:37 PM
Yeah, he's stupid!
Only stupidity could help produce two of
the greatest female athletes in the world! :p

Go Richard! :cool:

pfff, Richard is racist!!

Paneru
Feb 16th, 2004, 05:08 PM
pfff, Richard is racist!!

Oh is he?
How?
What has he said or done
to be considered as such?

Enlighten me. :angel:

Joachim
Feb 16th, 2004, 05:14 PM
Oh is he?
How?
What has he said or done
to be considered as such?

Enlighten me. :angel:

Richard hates the all white people!

Paneru
Feb 16th, 2004, 05:26 PM
Richard hates the all white people!

I've never heard anything like that from Richard
or anyone a part of teenis say such a thing.

He's been called crazy and a many other things by the establishment but, never have I heard anyone call him a racist.

SerialKiller#69
Feb 16th, 2004, 05:34 PM
...other shots aside from smacking the hell out of the ball. Serena especially.

Tplayer
Feb 16th, 2004, 06:17 PM
The sisters need to get their fat asses back on the court and off the catwalks

(If it aint broke, don't fix it) Things are great just the way they are! :bounce:

flyingmachine
Feb 16th, 2004, 09:47 PM
The sisters need to get their fat asses back on the court and off the catwalks


By the new coach or by Justine? :lol:

Knizzle
Feb 16th, 2004, 10:04 PM
I take in you have the inside scoop :rolleyes:

He says Richard was banned, but Richard was the one going to the courts after Yetunde died. :rolleyes:

"Topaz"
Feb 16th, 2004, 10:06 PM
Azima:
"Venus definitely needs both a serving coach and a new trainer, whose expertise is in preventing injuries. Sampras was quite friable in the early 1990s, till he hired someone who could keep him on the tour long enough to allow for history to unfold. Venus needs this bad."

My reply: This comment resonates well with me.
__________________________________________________ __________


Flyingmachine:
"I think the Williams needs a new coarch and a new trainer.
It sounds Venus is not training well, being injured again after playing only a few matches."

My reply: Something worth noticing.
__________________________________________________ __________


Nander:
"I posted a similar post after Australia but no one seemed to pay any attention. It has been clear to me for a while that there is need for some new approaches, especially for Venus.
Also certainly these days, part of training is to ensure minimal injuries."

My reply: Besides posters, let's hope the sisters pay attention. Most players review their coaching situation from time to time. However, this can be hard to do when the coach is mom and when you recall mom and pap have been great all your life.
__________________________________________________ __________


tennisfannn:
"By some of the reasoning here it sounds like only Carlos Rodrigues is doing any work. Should Kim, Lindsay, and everyone else get a different coach then. There is no denying the results Oracene has gotten out of her girls, there is however still room for improvement. A different perspective may help."

Same reply as above.
__________________________________________________ __________


Volcana:
"Measured BY THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF THE PLAYERS THEY COACHED, Venus and Serena already have the best coaches in the game"

This should read: "Venus and Serena already have had the best coaches in the game."
__________________________________________________ __________


Joachim:
"The Williams sisters earned much money, that is reason what They are tired of tennis.
... Richard is so stupid.
... Richard hates the all white people!"

Such comments obviously originate from a disturbed mind. Regardless, you're allowed to be mean but be careful not to hurt anyone. Society by and large has low tolerance for characters like you.

*JR*
Feb 16th, 2004, 10:20 PM
One Option not mentioned is the "occasional coaching retreat" method. A good example is with Sharky. Eric van Harpen is her "touring coach" now, but Lansdorp (and Bolletieri a little) taught her @ their Facilities Far From the Madding Crowd.

jbone_0307
Feb 17th, 2004, 02:17 AM
routed:rolleyes: , you obviously didn'T watch the match. YOu don't have 14 aces and over 30 winners and get routed. It was a 6-4 7-6 win, not a 6-1 6-2. Venus wasn't agressive enough, and Lisa had the match of her life. But it definetly wasn't a routing!


You can have 50 aces and it could still be a route. 6-4 7-6 to me is a route when you consider who beat who and that she didn't even win a set.

"Topaz"
Jul 19th, 2004, 02:26 AM
:scratch: Ahem!
After today's victory of Davenport over Venus at Stanford (Bank of the West Classic 04 final), I remain speechless. :speakles:

76-57-76 means Venus was a hair away from victory. The hump was her forehand and Davey knew it. Well, it also was her second serve which led to several DF's at key moments.

Wait a minute! FH, second serve... haven't we heard of these weaknesses before in Venus's armor? 1999-2000-01-02-03... same old, same old.

BJK did help, as well as Zina. And Venus valued their inputs.

Now, why not seek these kinds of inputs on a continuous basis, with mom and/or dad watching? Why not, at the very least, take advantage of ad hoc coaching?

Please nobody come back with the confidence issue again. Superb technique is what is needed.

tennischick
Jul 19th, 2004, 03:58 AM
of course the Sisters need technical help. that is sooooo clear that only a blind fan would insist otherwise. Richard took them as far as he could uphill and Oracene seems to be better at taking them shopping.

i suspect that the problem is one of pride/public impression. on paper the Sisters already KNOW what needs to be fixed so why should they spend money on an outsider to help them fix what they already KNOW needs to be fixed? it would take a LOT for them to humble and seek outside technical help. the media barrage alone would be horrendous and i suspect that the mere thought of what SEEKING OUTSIDE HELP would mean may be keeping the Sisters locked into their current inadequate situation.

i hope Serena is the first to crack bec she has so much more potential and i suspect that there may be a lot of coaches who are itching to get their hands on her. the longer she puts off seeking help, the shorter her career will be IMO.

"Topaz"
Jul 19th, 2004, 04:24 AM
Right on, TC! :yeah: