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View Full Version : Why isn't Justine Grabbing Headlines?


Cybelle Darkholme
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:05 AM
After Serena won three slams: french wimbledon usopen she was everywhere in the news and media. She was the unstoppable force and pinnacle of domination.

Justine has just won three slams and there has been no media blitz or anything of note. Why not?

Knizzle
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:06 AM
:rolleyes:

tennnisfannn
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:08 AM
Maybe you should subscribe to some Belgian newspapers. there is after all a whole other world outside the united states.

tennisIlove09
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:09 AM
cause Justine isn't the dominate player Serena was. Serena played everyone healthy in the field...Justine hasn't ;)

~ The Leopard ~
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:10 AM
Some people have apparently never been anywhere outside of the US.

Cybelle Darkholme
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:13 AM
I was just recently in England, Spain, Holland and Mexico.


So so much for what you seem to know. There is not justine blitz in any of those countries but I grant you that the five people who make up the Belgian population must have put up quite a show.

tennisluver99
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:14 AM
Huh....because Serena is an american. I'm sure over in Europe Justine got alot of publicity.

It's the same with Federer, the american media pays more attention to Roddick.

In the american media the american players are all that matters in tennis...you should know that by now.

~ The Leopard ~
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:20 AM
Oh, I figured you might have been overseas Cybelle since you are obviously middle class enough to have good computer access. That's why I carefully used the word "apparently".

But use your head. You're not talking like someone who is well-travelled. Justine almost certainly gets enormous coverage in Belgium and France. These things depend largely on the nationality of the player concerned.

~ The Leopard ~
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:22 AM
I will say this, though, in your support. The WTA would be smart to put more effort into raising the profile of Juju, Kimmie, Momo and a few others (maybe Sharapova?) in the US, because those players are likely to win a lot of matches, tournaments and slams in the next few years.

LindsayRocks89
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:24 AM
because of her teeth

~ The Leopard ~
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:26 AM
^The question was about Juju, not Nastya. :tape:

Greenout
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:35 AM
Justine got huge coverage during the weeks pre-and after the AO 2004
in Asia and Australia.

You have to also realize that Justine is with OCTAGON and they never
really target the USA as much as IMG sports stars. OCTAGON is home
of Amelie, Hingis, Hewitt, Anna, Mary, and Guga etc... If you notice
they never play the "apologists" pr media blitz whenever one of their
clients says something or does something that the US media can't understand.

It's like the OCTAGON motto is..."hey they're big international stars that
are successful, regardless of what you may think of them or aware of".


Justine's with Adidas, and USA isn't their main market.

FYI-there's a huge vertical billboard panel of Justine in her red
AO 2004 outfit now flanking the ADIDAS Concept store in Singapore.
She's a huge star here. The local papers call her "Justine"...they
don't even mention the last names. Everybody knows that it's
"Justine the Belgian 3x grand slam winning tennis star".

darrinbaker00
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:44 AM
I think it's because Serena actively seeks the spotlight, whereas Justine seems to be content with winning matches and going home. Overly simplistic, yes, but that's how I see it. ;)

Jericho
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:48 AM
because shes boring, the hand thing got a lot of publicity though

Greenout
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:51 AM
This is silly thread. All you really want to say is that Serena is bigger
and greater than Justine. And if you can't find it in tennis comparisons,
your using the USA media coverage angle. Who cares! The USA
never gives bravo's to foreign sports stars anyway, unless they happen
to play an event in the USA. Even with that they still rather talk about
how un-American these foreigners are in regards to friendly happy open
arms Americans.

Get over yourselves already! The world doesn't revolve around America!
Yes, we're powerful, have more weapons, purchasing power, a higher
standard of living...but really let's be aware that there are other people
in this world with just as valid as a lifestyle or culture than the USA~!

Greenout
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:51 AM
Forget it already. Thank god I moved!~

Diya
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:52 AM
If given a choice i'd rather choose to be popular in my country.....Justine is grabbing a lot of headlines in Belgium . Your faves OTOH continue to be booed even in the US .........talk about being (un)popular among your own folk :tape:

vogus
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:58 AM
Serena obviously is concerned with what the media and other people think and say about her. Whereas Justine doesn't care that much about what people say and think. That's probly the main difference. Serena seems to be getting more and more desperate for the spotlight. It's unfortunate that she's turning into a big phony without her tennis.

Dede42
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:59 AM
I was just recently in England, Spain, Holland and Mexico.


So so much for what you seem to know. There is not justine blitz in any of those countries but I grant you that the five people who make up the Belgian population must have put up quite a show.
:haha:

Dede42
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:03 AM
I think it's because Serena actively seeks the spotlight, whereas Justine seems to be content with winning matches and going home. Overly simplistic, yes, but that's how I see it. ;)
Sorry boo, but I see it the other way around. Justine is just not as actively sought after in the US. Which is all that matters anyway, right? :hehehe:

vogus
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:08 AM
come on back Greeny! Don't hide over in Singapore forever! We need you here, man!

Dede42
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:08 AM
Serena obviously is concerned with what the media and other people think and say about her. Whereas Justine doesn't care that much about what people say and think. That's probly the main difference. Serena seems to be getting more and more desperate for the spotlight. It's unfortunate that she's turning into a big phony without her tennis.
A big phony??!! And just what did Serena do to deserve that?

Regarding Justine not caring about what anybody thinks, that is quite obvious because everybody knows what a liar and cheat she is and she continues to behave this way without a care about what anyone thinks. Especially her collegues.

Justilying -> :bigwave:

QUEENLINDSAY
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:23 AM
One thing is for sure!!!! She is not american!!!!

bigshow21
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:30 AM
Serena got all the attention because she was good, american, and by those bright, tight, revealing outfits she wore.

Justine isnt getting any attention because she is belgian and boring. Plus she didnt play against any competitive players. Americans want to cheer for americans not belgians. I dont know maybe im wrong but this is how i view it.

xin_hui
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:54 AM
Justine got huge coverage during the weeks pre-and after the AO 2004
in Asia and Australia.

You have to also realize that Justine is with OCTAGON and they never
really target the USA as much as IMG sports stars. OCTAGON is home
of Amelie, Hingis, Hewitt, Anna, Mary, and Guga etc... If you notice
they never play the "apologists" pr media blitz whenever one of their
clients says something or does something that the US media can't understand.

It's like the OCTAGON motto is..."hey they're big international stars that
are successful, regardless of what you may think of them or aware of".


Justine's with Adidas, and USA isn't their main market.

FYI-there's a huge vertical billboard panel of Justine in her red
AO 2004 outfit now flanking the ADIDAS Concept store in Singapore.
She's a huge star here. The local papers call her "Justine"...they
don't even mention the last names. Everybody knows that it's
"Justine the Belgian 3x grand slam winning tennis star".u can ask all the people in singapore,and 90% WONT know who she is. hardly anyone can tell u she won 3 GS. when do the papers never mention her last name? we must be reading different papers. she is not a huge star here. period. no tennis players are really huge stars here. everytime i ask my friends who doesnt watch tennis, the only names they can mention is agassi and williams

Volcana
Feb 14th, 2004, 04:10 AM
After Serena won three slams: french wimbledon usopen she was everywhere in the news and media. She was the unstoppable force and pinnacle of domination.

Justine has just won three slams and there has been no media blitz or anything of note. Why not?You're not giving credit to the timeframes or circumstances.

1) Serena won her first GS at 17. By the time she won her third, she was already an international superstar by being half of the Williams sisters. She already had two GS mixed titles, two or three GS doubles titles, and had won a gold medal at the Olympics. She was doing TV commercials and ads BEFORE she won her third GS. Being Venus' sister gave her a huge head start Justine didn't have.

It was what? Three YEARS between Serena's first slam and her third?

By comparison, all of seven months passed between Justine's first and her third. She hasn't has time to acquire the level of media saturation that Serena has had.

2) The United States is a much bigger country than Belgium. Serena starts with a much bigger base of fans-by-patriotism, as it were.

3) The American Hype Machine. The media in the USA is unmatched at making money off of stars. Give them a chance to make someone a star and put them in a lot of different media outlets. Whoever it is has to turn out to be a person who does ads and TV and moviers and magazines well, but we're REAL good at hype. Venus, Linday and Jenn all didin't for one reaon or another, fit the mold of 'American Media Superstar. For Serena, it worked.

4) Justine won three slams when the great unthinking masses of American were being told that the 'chcoclate making countries' were traitors who refused to support us in Iraq. (Because we were lying about the threat, but who's counting). No American company was looking for a Belgian spokesmodel. And this IS the country with the most media outlets, and where a sizeable plurality of the tournaments are.

Compare Justine's three GS wins to Justine's Jenn's. How much did we see Jenn all over the media? Not so much, really. How many TV shows did Lindsay do? How many did Venus do?

From previous posts in the thread, I gather Justine is much more of a media presence in Europe than in the USA. At the same time, I haven't heard of her doing movies or TV commercials or modeling in Europe. THe thing is, not everybody WANTS to be a superstar entertainer. Serena does and it turns out she's good enough at it to keep getting TV roles and magazine covers and the SI swimsuit issue.

The only two players I've ever heard express any interest in being celebrities were Serena and Anna K. I think Justine's a bit more like Venus. She wnats to take her GS wins and otherwise have her life, and leave the celebrity stuff to people who want it more. She'll take the endorsment money, natch, but we're not that likely to see her with all the 'A'-list celebs at the trendiest parties. No knock on either of them. People differ.

But it's more about the difference between the USA and Belgium, size-wise, and the timing, politiaclly speaking of Justine's wins.

It does help that Serena's built like centerfold, too.

VRULES
Feb 14th, 2004, 04:11 AM
Yeah but I am sure 90% of Asia could intantly recognize Venus and Serena w/o saying the last name.
It all has to do with nationality. Justine isn't American so she didn't get the publicity. The sisters get it because this is the only time two siblings will be no. 1+2 (or were) in an individual sport, and that was world wide news.

Jericho
Feb 14th, 2004, 04:48 AM
u can ask all the people in singapore,and 90% WONT know who she is. hardly anyone can tell u she won 3 GS. when do the papers never mention her last name? we must be reading different papers. she is not a huge star here. period. no tennis players are really huge stars here. everytime i ask my friends who doesnt watch tennis, the only names they can mention is agassi and williams
someone got told :tape:

Fingon
Feb 14th, 2004, 05:05 AM
I was just recently in England, Spain, Holland and Mexico.


So so much for what you seem to know. There is not justine blitz in any of those countries but I grant you that the five people who make up the Belgian population must have put up quite a show.
When Serena won 4 Grand Slams, there wasn't that much about her here in Canada.

I can't say what happened in other countries but obviously players receive a lot of attention in their countries, for that matter Kim also didn't cause much attention. They are not Canadians and they don't play basketball, football, hockey or baseball, so (in the media's opinion) who cares?

irma
Feb 14th, 2004, 05:21 AM
it's ridiculous when a tennismagazine claims we don't want justine on the cover because we can't find a good pic. what a dumb excuse :o

Steffi was the first tennisplayer in the sportilustrated swimmsuit and she was with adidas and european and didn't even have an american bf that time (well officially)
anna is with adidas too

if justine wants attention she has to make some sexy pics;)

Dede42
Feb 14th, 2004, 05:30 AM
if justine wants attention she has to make some sexy pics;)
Well, that's an impossibility. First let's get those butters she calls teeth a little whiter.

moby
Feb 14th, 2004, 05:49 AM
justine isn't grabbing headlines because
1) she's a cheater
2) she's ugly
3) she will never ever be as good as serena williams

now i've given you what you've wanted to hear (read), please do us a favour and not start yet another pointless and stupid thread again. Thank you so much.

Greenout
Feb 14th, 2004, 06:45 AM
u can ask all the people in singapore,and 90% WONT know who she is. hardly anyone can tell u she won 3 GS. when do the papers never mention her last name? we must be reading different papers. she is not a huge star here. period. no tennis players are really huge stars here. everytime i ask my friends who doesnt watch tennis, the only names they can mention is agassi and williams


I guess it's because my friends aren't still attending school. I
have expat and Singaporean friends..all of them have graduated
University years ago. Watch SCV, read the Straits Times, read
the TODAY paper. Everyone I know have careers and families
already. They live in condo's and are well read, attend cinema's
go to bookshops, have hobbies, learning to drink wine, are
tech freaks and your basic Singaporean.

~ The Leopard ~
Feb 14th, 2004, 06:52 AM
I guess it's because my friends aren't still attending school. I
have expat and Singaporean friends..all of them have graduated
University years ago. Watch SCV, read the Straits Times, read
the TODAY paper. Everyone I know have careers and families
already. They live in condo's and are well read, attend cinema's
go to bookshops, have hobbies, learning to drink wine, are
tech freaks and your basic Singaporean.
:lol: , well said! You obviously hang out with a better class of people.

~ The Leopard ~
Feb 14th, 2004, 06:56 AM
God, I hope Momo eventually wins a slam....not just coz I love her dearly, though I do, but because I really want to see how the American media deal with a top athlete who is a strapping French, lesbian Amazon.

You can't deny that Momo has charisma, but the media might freak out if she ever goes from star to superstar status.

Get yr head together, Amelie!! :devil:

CinnamoninCinema
Feb 14th, 2004, 06:59 AM
This is like asking why Justine isn't all over the headlines in Malaysia.

Couver
Feb 14th, 2004, 07:07 AM
God, I hope Momo eventually wins a slam....not just coz I love her dearly, though I do, but because I really want to see how the American media deal with a top athlete who is a strapping French, lesbian Amazon.

You can't deny that Momo has charisma, but the media might freak out if she ever goes from star to superstar status.

Get yr head together, Amelie!! :devil:
I would love it if Amelie won a major :hearts: I think she's very marketable. She is very attractive IMO.

Greenout
Feb 14th, 2004, 07:31 AM
it's ridiculous when a tennismagazine claims we don't want justine on the cover because we can't find a good pic. what a dumb excuse :o

Steffi was the first tennisplayer in the sportilustrated swimmsuit and she was with adidas and european and didn't even have an american bf that time (well officially)
anna is with adidas too

if justine wants attention she has to make some sexy pics;)



Get the facts correct here. Steffi won grand slams in 1988, 1989,
1990, 1991,1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996...she finally becomes
a star in the USA in 1997!!!! and appears in the SI Swimsuit issue.

Steffi wasn't exactly featured alot in the news or celebrated from
1988- 1993. We ( the USA) sort of excepted that fact that she
wasn't going away just yet...1994, 1995..still winning practically
everything she enters. Wow. America warms up to Steffi despite
blaming her for Monica...1996..1997. Wow. A the first tennis
star in SI Swimsuit issue. :haha:

xin_hui
Feb 14th, 2004, 07:50 AM
I guess it's because my friends aren't still attending school. I
have expat and Singaporean friends..all of them have graduated
University years ago. Watch SCV, read the Straits Times, read
the TODAY paper. Everyone I know have careers and families
already. They live in condo's and are well read, attend cinema's
go to bookshops, have hobbies, learning to drink wine, are
tech freaks and your basic Singaporean.
dont assume just coz i'm a student, i only have friends who are students ok? i have friends who are also working, and they dunno who justine is. I read more newspapers than u do, including ALL the english ones and ALL the chinese ones. and if u want to know, in the chinese newspapers, tennis is practically non-existent.
face a fact, an average sporean will not know who justine is.

irma
Feb 14th, 2004, 08:11 AM
Get the facts correct here. Steffi won grand slams in 1988, 1989,
1990, 1991,1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996...she finally becomes
a star in the USA in 1997!!!! and appears in the SI Swimsuit issue.

Steffi wasn't exactly featured alot in the news or celebrated from
1988- 1993. We ( the USA) sort of excepted that fact that she
wasn't going away just yet...1994, 1995..still winning practically
everything she enters. Wow. America warms up to Steffi despite
blaming her for Monica...1996..1997. Wow. A the first tennis
star in SI Swimsuit issue. :haha:

My point was that Steffi was definitely seen with other eyes after the pics she made (first in the vogue in 90 though.), maybe not in the USA but definitely were I live. Steffi said all the time how she prefered to be in the USA, because she could do what she want, because in her own country it was a different story (to make the understatement of the day)

Steffi could have been an even bigger star if she had been as given to the media as Justine is (inviting them to practice sessions, even on holidays she is still posing for them, etc, etc.)
can't imagine Steffi ever doing a thing like that. definitely not
I am still surprised she ever went to any talkshow :o (maybe the wta forced her because tennis was in such a bad state. well that was the story)

propi
Feb 14th, 2004, 08:29 AM
I was just recently in England, Spain, Holland and Mexico.


So so much for what you seem to know. There is not justine blitz in any of those countries but I grant you that the five people who make up the Belgian population must have put up quite a show.
:wavey: Here in Spain the magazine of one of the most important newspapers had a whole article named "Nuevas reinas del tenis mundial" (New queens of world tennis), to my surprise (I thought it was about juniors or young prodigies) it was just about two players.... guess who.... Justine and Kim, that was before Aus Open... after it, headlines about Justine beating Kim or staying as number 1 were as common as they used to be with Williams or ASV- Graf matches:wavey:
So here's she's having neither more nor less impact in media.... except when she won RG, when every newspaper or TV spoke about Justine's story in tennis, and compared her story to Ferrero's ;)

But them, of course there' s the "national factor", I mean after any GS won by fellow Spaniards, even Vivi's amazing run in doubles, it is given more importance in news of my country.... I guess same happens everywhere... I'm sure last year Japanese press was excited about Ai reaching top 10, EEUU with Roddick's victory, etc.

moby
Feb 14th, 2004, 08:42 AM
dont assume just coz i'm a student, i only have friends who are students ok? i have friends who are also working, and they dunno who justine is. I read more newspapers than u do, including ALL the english ones and ALL the chinese ones. and if u want to know, in the chinese newspapers, tennis is practically non-existent.
face a fact, an average sporean will not know who justine is.
you're right
unless they follow tennis, they're not likely to hear of justine, or kim, or even martina hingis!
guess what, they only know the williams sisters, roddick, agassi, and co.
maybe graf, because she's agassi's wife
the singaporean media panders to the average singaporean's desire to be more americanised, you know
not surprisingly, we've got lots of shows imported from america

SerialKiller#69
Feb 14th, 2004, 08:57 AM
because unlike Serena, she isn't really someone who most people root against..

:cat: meow meow!

Darran
Feb 14th, 2004, 10:09 AM
There was as much publicity over here for Justine's wins as there was for Serena.

tfannis
Feb 14th, 2004, 10:58 AM
After Serena won three slams: french wimbledon usopen she was everywhere in the news and media. She was the unstoppable force and pinnacle of domination.

Justine has just won three slams and there has been no media blitz or anything of note. Why not?Because you live in a world where currently boobs make headlines more easily than weapons of mass destruction? :confused:

flyingmachine
Feb 14th, 2004, 11:32 AM
My reasons why Justine is not grabbing the headlines.

The streotyical part

Justine - Beglium (white european & straight) = tiny, boring-unforturely most British people streotyical thinks Belgiums are boring (but not unusual.)
Searna - Black American = big loud - as most British sterotyical thinks of Americans (unusual - there are not many black people playing pro tennis!)

The media making part

Searna - Always in the media sportlight i.e. swinsuit photos, talk shows etc. and it seems that she's enjoying it.

Justine - Don't care the damm. I don't think she will ever in a swinsuit photos. However she is natural shy so don't she will do that. Despite she has a big heart but not a big MOUTH.

Also American media hates non-Americans unless they are:
Base in America
Slept with America/s like Blair and Bush
Got a exceptional big mouth.
Looks like Anna K.

Also you have to given time to grow as well. Searna has winning Slams for a few years now whiles Justine only starts to win things in the middles of last year and that is less than a year ago. However, if Justine is still wining slams in next few years than people will starts to notice her.

magassi
Feb 14th, 2004, 11:34 AM
Frankly, while Justine's game is beautiful to watch, she's lacks charisma.

Allez-H
Feb 14th, 2004, 11:40 AM
Billie Jean King:"Justine isn't big in America cuz she isn't American and her name isn't Anna K" :worship:

faste5683
Feb 14th, 2004, 11:43 AM
You're not giving credit to the timeframes or circumstances.

1) Serena won her first GS at 17. By the time she won her third, she was already an international superstar by being half of the Williams sisters. She already had two GS mixed titles, two or three GS doubles titles, and had won a gold medal at the Olympics. She was doing TV commercials and ads BEFORE she won her third GS. Being Venus' sister gave her a huge head start Justine didn't have.

It was what? Three YEARS between Serena's first slam and her third?

By comparison, all of seven months passed between Justine's first and her third. She hasn't has time to acquire the level of media saturation that Serena has had.

2) The United States is a much bigger country than Belgium. Serena starts with a much bigger base of fans-by-patriotism, as it were.

3) The American Hype Machine. The media in the USA is unmatched at making money off of stars. Give them a chance to make someone a star and put them in a lot of different media outlets. Whoever it is has to turn out to be a person who does ads and TV and moviers and magazines well, but we're REAL good at hype. Venus, Linday and Jenn all didin't for one reaon or another, fit the mold of 'American Media Superstar. For Serena, it worked.

4) Justine won three slams when the great unthinking masses of American were being told that the 'chcoclate making countries' were traitors who refused to support us in Iraq. (Because we were lying about the threat, but who's counting). No American company was looking for a Belgian spokesmodel. And this IS the country with the most media outlets, and where a sizeable plurality of the tournaments are.

Compare Justine's three GS wins to Justine's. How uch did we see Jenn all over the media? Not so much? How many TV shows did Lindsay do? How many did Venus do?

From previous posts in the thread, I gather Justine is much more of a media presence in Europe than in the USA. At the same time, I haven't heard of her doing movies or TV commercials or modeling in Europe. THe thing is, not everybody WANTS to be a superstar entertainer. Serena does and it turns out she's good enough at it to keep getting TV roles and magazine covers and the SI swimsuit issue.

The only two players I've ever heard express any interest in being celebrities were Serena and Anna K. I think Justine's a bit more like Venus. She wnats to take her GS wins and otherwise have her life, and leave the celebrity stuff to people who want it more. She'll take the endorsment money, natch, but we're not that likely to see her with all the 'A'-list celebs at the trendiest parties. No knock on either of them. People differ.

But it's more about the difference between the USA and Belgium, size-wise, and the timing, politiaclly speaking of Justine's wins.

It does help that Serena's built like centerfold, too.


Dang that was good! A true threadbuster... :)

:wavey:

faste5683
Feb 14th, 2004, 11:46 AM
Frankly, while Justine's game is beautiful to watch, she's lacks charisma.

?? Like beauty isn't enough? Well, I guess you can't have everything - where would you put it?

:wavey:

Kart
Feb 14th, 2004, 12:33 PM
I was just recently in England, Spain, Holland and Mexico.


So so much for what you seem to know. There is not justine blitz in any of those countries but I grant you that the five people who make up the Belgian population must have put up quite a show.
Did you have a nice time in England ? I would say I hope you managed to catch good weather but I can't remember the last time we had some :mad:.

SJW
Feb 14th, 2004, 01:05 PM
i gotta be honest...the "outside of America" and "across Europe" comments aren't correct

in England, the media interest seems to have been....nada

fammmmedspin
Feb 14th, 2004, 01:30 PM
Serena got all the attention because she was good, american, and by those bright, tight, revealing outfits she wore.

Justine isnt getting any attention because she is belgian and boring. Plus she didnt play against any competitive players. Americans want to cheer for americans not belgians. I dont know maybe im wrong but this is how i view it.
Precisely. American media actually thinks that Americans fit their international stereotype - zenophobic, insular, untravelled, racially obsessed, tasteless, incapable of anything other than the crude exercise of power and aggressively nationalistic, so they will ignore any non US number 1. Until they get evidence that the US public is not like this they will carry on as before.

Unfortunately this means the probability that there will be zero Americans in the top 10 in 2-3 years time is going to be a major problem - unless Americans do start to appreciate short Belgians and tall Russians.

pigam
Feb 14th, 2004, 01:51 PM
i gotta be honest...the "outside of America" and "across Europe" comments aren't correct

in England, the media interest seems to have been....nada
Hey SJW, I send you a PM to tell you how I love your sig, and directly afterwards you go and change it! :lol: :o :sad: ;) :confused: :)

fammmmedspin
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:17 PM
You're not giving credit to the timeframes or circumstances.

1) Serena won her first GS at 17. By the time she won her third, she was already an international superstar by being half of the Williams sisters......
Being Venus' sister gave her a huge head start Justine didn't have....
By comparison, all of seven months passed between Justine's first and her third. She hasn't has time to acquire the level of media saturation that Serena has had.

Excellent point Graf did more than Serena has ever accomplished in 1988 and when did US fans take to her?



2) The United States is a much bigger country than Belgium. Serena starts with a much bigger base of fans-by-patriotism, as it were.

Very true. Though I see an awful lot of Americans cheering for Serena's opponents.

3) The American Hype Machine. ...... Venus, Linday and Jenn all didin't for one reaon or another, fit the mold of 'American Media Superstar. For Serena, it worked.

The Hype machine is interesting. They seem to want someone who wants to be a star with saleable looks and a drug free story. The downside is very obvious though if you ask why would American media be interested in a Black star at a time when the US is becoming more racialy divided by increasingly segregated schooling. You wonder if its creating a fictionalised society or just trying to grab an underselling market? Belgians don't help here.

4) Justine won three slams when the great unthinking masses of American were being told that the 'chcoclate making countries' were traitors who refused to support us in Iraq.

Pretty much in line with past Belgian policy anyway. The Belgians were always regarded as one of NATO's wobbly, indecisive, underspending, allies and historically were famous for providing battlefields not fighting.

From previous posts in the thread, I gather Justine is much more of a media presence in Europe than in the USA. At the same time, I haven't heard of her doing movies or TV commercials or modeling in Europe. THe thing is, not everybody WANTS to be a superstar entertainer. Serena does and it turns out she's good enough at it to keep getting TV roles and magazine covers and the SI swimsuit issue.

Justine gets similar quality paper reporting and magazine coverage to other number 1s. She doesn't get TV coverage of her life in the same way (though arguably she came through more than the sisters with less money behind her) but that may say more about why the Willams sisters story is regarded as interesting - possibly because it meets European stereotypes about a racist America , Afro-American aspirations and white American mythology about freedom and opportunity - all in the same story. Justine isn't on the magazines or TV shows Serena does but Serena isn't on the European magazine equivalents either and would probably never pass the audition for European TV.

It does help that Serena's built like centerfold, too.This is true in that she has the classic Playboy shape - although not quite in its final , augmented, US porn star variant - interestingly this appeal too may be limited to America too for reasons lost in the story of puritanism, slavery and a matriarchal society. Europe would probably vote overwhelmingly for Kournikova given the choice. Americans would ask for their money back if Justine appeared in Playboy.

pigam
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:27 PM
Americans would ask for their money back if Justine appeared in Playboy.
Euhm,... :shrug: :o I would ask for my money back too. :eek:
Do you think *anyone* wants Justine to be in Playboy? Do you think Justine wants* to be in Playboy?

Never mind the press, when the results are there, you'll finally get the respect. Besides, Justine always gets a lot of support when she's playing in America.

flyingmachine
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:30 PM
This is true in that she has the classic Playboy shape - although not quite in its final , augmented, US porn star variant - interestingly this appeal too may be limited to America too for reasons lost in the story of puritanism, slavery and a matriarchal society. Europe would probably vote overwhelmingly for Kournikova given the choice. Americans would ask for their money back if Justine appeared in Playboy.

If Justine is appeared in Playboy the cow will fly over the moon
:haha: :haha: :haha:

Greenout
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:33 PM
WTF does being in SI's swimsuit issue and being Playboy pin up
material have to do with tennis? This is soooooooooo lame.
If this is what the USTA wants? They should've recruited Pamela
Anderson for the Fed Cup team. :haha:

flyingmachine
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:35 PM
Euhm,... :shrug: :o I would ask for my money back too. :eek:
Do you think *anyone* wants Justine to be in Playboy? Do you think Justine wants* to be in Playboy?
NO NEVER. Don't think she will ever appeared in playboy. She's not the type of character.

Never mind the press, when the results are there, you'll finally get the respect. Besides, Justine always gets a lot of support when she's playing in America.
TURE. If Justine is a American she will be as much well know as the Williams.

Greenout
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:35 PM
This is too ridiculous. Why bother even watching tennis if this is
the standard your looking for?

irma
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:42 PM
WTF does being in SI's swimsuit issue and being Playboy pin up
material have to do with tennis? This is soooooooooo lame.
If this is what the USTA wants? They should've recruited Pamela
Anderson for the Fed Cup team. :haha:
the thread was about headlines and getting attention;)

but then I doubt Justine didn't have enough of that after what happened after the us open last year
even when it was "mostly" in her country

Greenout
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:48 PM
the thread was about headlines and getting attention;)

but then I doubt Justine didn't have enough of that after what happened after the us open last year
even when it was "mostly" in her country



Getting back to the topic in hand. Your right Irma. Not going
into specific detail; but I doubt she wants her personal history
as water cooler office talk. I don't think she want's too be a
mega star or anything. Just appreciated for her freakish tennis
ablility.

Cybelle Darkholme
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:51 PM
Nationality as an excuse is taking the easy way out without thinking. Tiger Woods is American and he is everywhere. Soremstam is I believe Norwegian and she is everywhere.

Volcana
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:56 PM
Excellent point Graf did more than Serena has ever accomplished in 1988 and when did US fans take to her?

Actually, given the weakness of the Olympics as tournament, Serena's 12 month run to 4 straight GS titles is exactly the same as Steffi's 1988. It just doesn't coincide with a calendar year.

pigam
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:00 PM
Nationality as an excuse is taking the easy way out without thinking. Tiger Woods is American and he is everywhere. Soremstam is I believe Norwegian and she is everywhere.
Well, they might be everywhere, but that doesn't prevent you from thinking she's from Norway, when actually she's from SWEDEN.
In fact, Sorenstam isn't known at all here, how 'scandalous' it might seem. Why? Because there never was a Belgian golfer and it isn't televised nor covered by the newspapers... I don't think Sorenstam is better known than Henin all around the world? Or am I mistaken? Tennis still seems a more 'world-wide-sport' than golf, no? :confused:

minboy
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:01 PM
I don't think justine gives a damn about being famous or not ( adidas maybe ). She just wants to play and win. She gets it
Serena, on the other hand, is an attention seeker. She wants to play , to win AND to be famous ( i mean, what is she doing at all those hollywood ceremony?) , so she gets it too

minboy
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:02 PM
Well, they might be everywhere, but that doesn't prevent you from thinking she's from Norway, when actually she's from SWEDEN.
In fact, Sorenstam isn't known at all here, how 'scandalous' it might seem. Why? Because there never was a Belgian golfer and it isn't televised nor covered by the newspapers... I don't think Sorenstam is better known than Henin all around the world? Or am I mistaken? Tennis still seems a more 'world-wide-sport' than golf, no? :confused:
true. The only times i hear about her is when i watch cnn's worldsport. Otherwise......

sartrista7
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:03 PM
i gotta be honest...the "outside of America" and "across Europe" comments aren't correct

in England, the media interest seems to have been....nada

Only insofar as interest in tennis in England is nada. Justine's less in-demand than the Williams sisters still, but a) not by as much as you'd expect and b) not that any of them are really in demand at all for the 50 non-Wimbledon weeks of the year. We read about the adverts, TV appearances, bit-part acting jobs that the Williamses get in the US... they get none of that in the UK. No tennis player does (I've blocked the Henman washing powder ads from my mind).

It's all about the desire to be a star... if it wasn't for Serena, I doubt Venus would be as much of a 'celebrity' as she is, because she doesn't really want all that. Steffi never wanted it, and never got it in America. Hingis and Kournikova both wanted it, and the latter got it even without the results. Justine... doesn't want it. At all.

And tennis is still a relatively minor sport... if a player doesn't do her fair share of self-promotion, no one will bother doing it for her.

SJW
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:05 PM
Hey SJW, I send you a PM to tell you how I love your sig, and directly afterwards you go and change it! :lol: :o :sad: ;) :confused: :)
:haha:

sorry...thanks for liking it ;) but it doesn't suit my mood anymore :wavey:

next time i have drama, i'll change it back for you :kiss:

SJW
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:09 PM
Only insofar as interest in tennis in England is nada. Justine's less in-demand than the Williams sisters still, but a) not by as much as you'd expect and b) not that any of them are really in demand at all for the 50 non-Wimbledon weeks of the year. We read about the adverts, TV appearances, bit-part acting jobs that the Williamses get in the US... they get none of that in the UK. No tennis player does (I've blocked the Henman washing powder ads from my mind).

It's all about the desire to be a star... if it wasn't for Serena, I doubt Venus would be as much of a 'celebrity' as she is, because she doesn't really want all that. Steffi never wanted it, and never got it in America. Hingis and Kournikova both wanted it, and the latter got it even without the results. Justine... doesn't want it. At all.

And tennis is still a relatively minor sport... if a player doesn't do her fair share of self-promotion, no one will bother doing it for her.
ohhhhh Venus loves the attention. Venus loves the press she gets and don't think anything different. she may be more of an introvert, but she is soooo media friendly.

and i don't know what magazines you get, or papers you read, but there was stuff about the sisters all the time :confused:

pigam
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:09 PM
:haha:

sorry...thanks for liking it ;) but it doesn't suit my mood anymore :wavey:

next time i have drama, i'll change it back for you :kiss:

Well I guess it's kinda ok you snapped out of your drama-mood. Those moods shouldn't last too long :)

Hope your mood is more of a:
Come on baby just party with me
Let loose and set your body free
Leave your situations at the door
So when you step inside jump on the floor
mood tonight :banana: :couple: ;)

Greenout
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:11 PM
Well I guess it's kinda ok you snapped out of your drama-mood. Those moods shouldn't last too long :)

Hope your mood is more of a:
Come on baby just party with me
Let loose and set your body free
Leave your situations at the door
So when you step inside jump on the floor
mood tonight :banana: :couple: ;)


Wow. Pigam. You are getting ready to "boogie down" as
they say in those 70's disco songs.

Burn Lady burn Disco Inferno!!!!!!!!!

Volcana
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:12 PM
This is too ridiculous. Why bother even watching tennis if this is
the standard your looking for?
The thread didn't ask about tennis. it asked about media attention.

Anna K's tennis isn't what kept her in the media in 2002 and 2003.

Greenout
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:16 PM
The thread didn't ask about tennis. it asked about media attention.

Anna K's tennis isn't what kept her in the media in 2002 and 2003.



Your right. It helps if you can hump Enrique in music video's. :tape:

for-sure
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:17 PM
If given a choice i'd rather choose to be popular in my country.....Justine is grabbing a lot of headlines in Belgium . Your faves OTOH continue to be booed even in the US .........talk about being (un)popular among your own folk :tape:

BRAVO! :)

sartrista7
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:17 PM
ohhhhh Venus loves the attention. Venus loves the press she gets and don't think anything different. she may be more of an introvert, but she is soooo media friendly.

and i don't know what magazines you get, or papers you read, but there was stuff about the sisters all the time :confused:

All the time around Wimbledon, yes... but can you name even three magazine cover stories in the past year outside of the grass season? They're mentioned quite a lot as pop culture references, but very rarely given a lead feature - and most of those references are wrong anyway; one mention of them I saw (in the Guardian supplement) assumed that Venus was the star and Serena was in her shadow, purely because she was the older one. It's not because of them, it's because of how tennis is perceived... but as someone who actually has to pay attention to the media at large, I can safely say that the only time a tennis player will get major coverage outside of Wimbledon is if they're Anna K posing in a bikini for a lad's mag. Or Henman.

SJW
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:23 PM
All the time around Wimbledon, yes... but can you name even three magazine cover stories in the past year outside of the grass season? They're mentioned quite a lot as pop culture references, but very rarely given a lead feature - and most of those references are wrong anyway; one mention of them I saw (in the Guardian supplement) assumed that Venus was the star and Serena was in her shadow, purely because she was the older one. It's not because of them, it's because of how tennis is perceived... but as someone who actually has to pay attention to the media at large, I can safely say that the only time a tennis player will get major coverage outside of Wimbledon is if they're Anna K posing in a bikini for a lad's mag. Or Henman.
probably not because of their absence from the last 7 months....but i've still read loads of articles on them. including a double page spread in the daily mail on Serena's $60mil contract...i have a lot of magazine covers with them up to Wimbledon 03 (the time they went off tour)...and no they're not even tennis magazines. :confused:

hollywood7172
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:26 PM
i think it's because justine is white and serena is black. :p :tape: :devil: :angel:


just a lighthearted, airheaded answer to an airheaded thread.

Justinefan
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:29 PM
Do the Williams sisters show up in a lot of magazines in Europe, or is it mostly Justine and Kim? b/c in the states it's all about the sister's which makes sense they are American.. didn't know if it was the same way over there?

for-sure
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:30 PM
In Europe no one care about V/S Willliams

Juju #1
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:33 PM
After Serena won three slams: french wimbledon usopen she was everywhere in the news and media. She was the unstoppable force and pinnacle of domination.

Justine has just won three slams and there has been no media blitz or anything of note. Why not?


Because she's not American (thank God for that :worship: )

Justinefan
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:38 PM
Because she's not American (thank God for that :worship: )

I would imagine she got a ton of media in Europe, same with Kim... What was the tennis media like in Europe when the ws were winning everything? Seems like your media attention is directly related to where you are :rolleyes:

sartrista7
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:38 PM
probably not because of their absence from the last 7 months....but i've still read loads of articles on them. including a double page spread in the daily mail on Serena's $60mil contract...i have a lot of magazine covers with them up to Wimbledon 03 (the time they went off tour)...and no they're not even tennis magazines. :confused:

I don't know what covers these are... and I follow the press quite intensively. Other than the occasional mention, they're not used to sell the fashion rags like Elle, Marie Claire and Glamour, and they barely get mentioned in the celebrity magazines like Heat and OK. The $60 million contract made the newspapers because it was a breaking news story... what I'm saying is that all the extra-curricular demand for the Williams sisters which they get in America just does not exist in the UK. Over there, they can shift units like very few other tennis players... here, they have recognition factor, but because not many people care about tennis, not many people care about them. (Of course... even fewer people care about Justine, and Kim is just off the radar completely.)

tennisluver99
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:43 PM
Nationality as an excuse is taking the easy way out without thinking. Tiger Woods is American and he is everywhere. Soremstam is I believe Norwegian and she is everywhere.

Annika is popular in america because there are no good american female golfers. Once Michelle Wie starts winning people will forget about Annika.

I don't know how popular Tiger is in Europe? But I know he's popular in Asia because he's half-asian.

Juju #1
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:49 PM
I would imagine she got a ton of media in Europe, same with Kim... What was the tennis media like in Europe when the ws were winning everything? Seems like your media attention is directly related to where you are :rolleyes:


Not at all. But you can't compare American media with European. If a Belgian wins GS, I'm sure people in Romania couldn't care less.

Justinefan
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:50 PM
That's true, so we could limit it more to countries, someone said that was taking the easy way out, but isn't that what determines amount of press?

Juju #1
Feb 14th, 2004, 04:02 PM
That's true, so we could limit it more to countries, someone said that was taking the easy way out, but isn't that what determines amount of press?


USA is the biggest market in the world. American player who wins a GS is definetly more marketable than European simply b/c Europe has a divided market.

SJW
Feb 14th, 2004, 04:45 PM
Do the Williams sisters show up in a lot of magazines in Europe, or is it mostly Justine and Kim? b/c in the states it's all about the sister's which makes sense they are American.. didn't know if it was the same way over there?
tennis magazines...(in England) rarely on "ace"

apart from that, no, i'm afraid

SJW
Feb 14th, 2004, 04:45 PM
In Europe no one care about V/S Willliams
untrue

sorry

SJW
Feb 14th, 2004, 04:47 PM
I don't know what covers these are... and I follow the press quite intensively. Other than the occasional mention, they're not used to sell the fashion rags like Elle, Marie Claire and Glamour, and they barely get mentioned in the celebrity magazines like Heat and OK. The $60 million contract made the newspapers because it was a breaking news story... what I'm saying is that all the extra-curricular demand for the Williams sisters which they get in America just does not exist in the UK. Over there, they can shift units like very few other tennis players... here, they have recognition factor, but because not many people care about tennis, not many people care about them. (Of course... even fewer people care about Justine, and Kim is just off the radar completely.)
agree to disagree (once again) ;)

when i buy my papers and magazines, if the sisters are in it, i keep it.

over the past 2 years i've collected so much material it's unbelievable

xin_hui
Feb 14th, 2004, 05:16 PM
you're right
unless they follow tennis, they're not likely to hear of justine, or kim, or even martina hingis!
guess what, they only know the williams sisters, roddick, agassi, and co.
maybe graf, because she's agassi's wife
the singaporean media panders to the average singaporean's desire to be more americanised, you know
not surprisingly, we've got lots of shows imported from america
yeah exactly! in spore, when tennis isnt a huge sport, u would not have heard of her unless u're a huge tennis fan. she's not american, (unlike agassi, williams), so that limits the amt of coverage we'll give her *heck, she isnt even brit!) even anna k isnt huge in spore

raquel
Feb 14th, 2004, 06:02 PM
agree to disagree (once again) ;)

when i buy my papers and magazines, if the sisters are in it, i keep it.

over the past 2 years i've collected so much material it's unbelievable
I agree. I have seen the sisters in the tabloids a lot even outside Wimbledon. A lot of it is the usual tabloid stuff like when Richard was accused of hitting Oracene I remember it was in a lot of the papers. When Yetunde died it had a lot of coverage because of the name recognition in the UK of Venus and Serena and for days after it there was spreads in the papers on the rise from rags to riches, telling the whole story of how they got to where they are. Serena appearing on that chatshow in the leather dress it was in all the papers, there was articles about Serena setting up a fashion label and when Serena had that photo shoot in the white bikini it took over the whole of page 3 in the Sun, taking the place of the usual page 3 girl!

SJW
Feb 14th, 2004, 06:05 PM
I agree. I have seen the sisters in the tabloids a lot even outside Wimbledon. A lot of it is the usual tabloid stuff like when Richard was accused of hitting Oracene I remember it was in a lot of the papers. When Yetunde died it had a lot of coverage because of the name recognition in the UK of Venus and Serena and for days after it there was spreads in the papers on the rise from rags to riches, telling the whole story of how they got to where they are. Serena appearing on that chatshow in the leather dress it was in all the papers, there was articles about Serena setting up a fashion label and when Serena had that photo shoot in the white bikini it took over the whole of page 3 in the Sun, taking the place of the usual page 3 girl!
RIGHT! somebody's speaking my language ;)

when Yetunde died it made the front page of a BROADSHEET :sad: (i forget which one)

K&J fan
Feb 14th, 2004, 06:09 PM
Because you live in a world where currently boobs make headlines more easily than weapons of mass destruction? :confused:
it's indeed at least part of the explanation :cool:

btw, the Williams' can have the headlines, looks like Juju is taking the slams :angel:

emptyhead
Feb 14th, 2004, 06:40 PM
Because the overall majority of sincere tennis fans have become tired, irritated by her on court antics..

Dede42
Feb 14th, 2004, 06:56 PM
it's indeed at least part of the explanation :cool:

btw, the Williams' can have the headlines, looks like Juju is taking the slams :angel:
Yeah, but without any real competition.

JustineTime
Feb 14th, 2004, 07:07 PM
:haha:

sorry...thanks for liking it ;) but it doesn't suit my mood anymore :wavey:

next time i have drama, i'll change it back for you :kiss:
If you change your sig every time your mood changes, how the heck do ever find time to post??? :scratch: :confused:

:p

;) :kiss:

JustineTime
Feb 14th, 2004, 07:18 PM
Yeah, but without any real competition.
Translation: No Williams=No competition :rolleyes:

Funny how Justine's detractors seem to keep forgetting that two of her three slams were won with a Williams in the draw...:scratch:

Or do you mean there's no competition even WITH a Williams in the draw? :confused:

Wait, I've got it! You mean that even though Venus lost early Justine's victories at RG & AO still lack merit because she didn't play her!!! :o

Boy, I are smart! :angel:

SJW
Feb 14th, 2004, 07:19 PM
If you change your sig every time your mood changes, how the heck do ever find time to post??? :scratch: :confused:

:p

;) :kiss:
my mood changes rarely

sarcasm 99% of the time

Habsudovafan
Feb 14th, 2004, 08:42 PM
Serena wasn't all over the media after she won her grand slam titles (at least in europe)
The same counts for Justine. I think being all over the media would only happen if Anna K. won a slam (which is NEVER). I think that Justine isn't into much media attention. The Williams sisters are other characters in that prospect. I think that's probably an american attitude (could be wrong though) Another reason for Williams attention are their controversial father and mother.

Volcana
Feb 14th, 2004, 08:45 PM
In Europe no one care about V/S Willliams
Well, you just locked up the gold medal for 'Silliest post of the Year'.

pigam
Feb 14th, 2004, 08:55 PM
One thing is for sure ;):
Venus and Serena ar A LOT in the media in Belgium. Probably because they are THE main rivals for Kim and Justine (our 'magic-duo').
But also their Fashion-show, the death of their sister, ... are frontpage news of (lowerquality) newspaper.

I guess it all depends on how tennis-mad the country is. Cuz V&S are known because of their tennis in the first place, and my guess is they will always be, because they are absolute toppayers (unlike some others...) At the moment Belgium is completely tennismad, so in a way, V&S are benefiting from J&K succes here in Belgium. Now shouldn't those to sisters be thankfull ;)

Fyndh0rnElf
Feb 14th, 2004, 10:46 PM
I was just recently in England, Spain, Holland and Mexico.



You mean... YOU GOT OUT OF YOUR CAVE? :eek:

I don't believe you.

lilly
Feb 14th, 2004, 10:49 PM
One thing is for sure ;):
Venus and Serena ar A LOT in the media in Belgium. Probably because they are THE main rivals for Kim and Justine (our 'magic-duo').
But also their Fashion-show, the death of their sister, ... are frontpage news of (lowerquality) newspaper.

I guess it all depends on how tennis-mad the country is. Cuz V&S are known because of their tennis in the first place, and my guess is they will always be, because they are absolute toppayers (unlike some others...) At the moment Belgium is completely tennismad, so in a way, V&S are benefiting from J&K succes here in Belgium. Now shouldn't those to sisters be thankfull ;)
Big in Belgium!!! yay!!:bounce:

Crazy_Fool
Feb 14th, 2004, 10:50 PM
In Europe no one care about V/S Willliams
Personally i think in Britain the only player u could percieve as big is AnnaK(SAD), cos ask a non-tennis fan who the williams sisters or the belgians are and i dont think they would know. Not that there is much tennis coverage around here, apart from when Wimbeldon is on...

Fyndh0rnElf
Feb 14th, 2004, 10:57 PM
I KNOW WHY JHH ISN'T GRABBING THOSE HEADLINES!

JOURNOS LOVE TO EXPLOIT PEOPLE'S MISERY AND WHY PICK ON JUSTINE(being no1 is just plain boring if you need to get stories of a ruined career!) IF YOU HAVE KOURNIKOVA SW AND VW FALLING LIKE BRICKS IN THE RANKINGS. I mean JHH has just won the AO(boring!) while Venus sensationally crashed out in ugly fashion to some "doubles specialist"! Imagine who the journos are gonna pick to write about :D