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for-sure
Feb 13th, 2004, 08:47 PM
This is not a bashing thread at all. I am just asking a question re: reverse racism.


If Tennis was a black dominated sport and two white sisters became number 1 and 2...would they be recognized for such things as

"the first White Tennis Player to...."
"The first white tennis siters..."

or...would the media 'not pay attention' to these records.

Knizzle
Feb 13th, 2004, 08:50 PM
This is not a bashing thread at all. I am just asking a question re: reverse racism.


If Tennis was a black dominated sport and two white sisters became number 1 and 2...would they be recognized for such things as

"the first White Tennis Player to...."
"The first white tennis siters..."

or...would the media 'not pay attention' to these records.

Depends on whether tennis began as a black ONLY sport.

for-sure
Feb 13th, 2004, 08:51 PM
Depends on whether tennis began as a black ONLY sport.

let's say it did.

kerbear
Feb 13th, 2004, 08:51 PM
I think so. Mark Price, of US basketball, was well talked about when I was young. He was a short white guy playing in a sport where there are mostly tall black people.

:sad: I miss Mark Price...

Knizzle
Feb 13th, 2004, 08:54 PM
let's say it did.

Then yes the black media would give them the title "First white tennis players...."

emptyhead
Feb 13th, 2004, 08:55 PM
please tell me they are NOT Belgian sisters.........PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!

skanky~skanketta
Feb 13th, 2004, 08:58 PM
duh!the race that is discriminated, that makes it far somewhere is always given media attention.

*JR*
Feb 13th, 2004, 09:15 PM
Sometimes commentators are so "race-sensitive" That They bring it Up Unnecessarily. Specifically, when the first W/S Slam final occured, Chrissie was going on about "...the first time 2 African-American sisters...". I wanted to scream @ the TV:

"Hey genius, its the first time 2 sisters have met in a Slam final, period". (Then I remembered all the ones between her and Jeannie Evert...) :lol:

alfajeffster
Feb 13th, 2004, 09:26 PM
Sometimes commentators are so "race-sensitive" That They bring it Up Unnecessarily. Specifically, when the first W/S Slam final occured, Chrissie was going on about "...the first time 2 African-American sisters...". I wanted to scream @ the TV:

"Hey genius, its the first time 2 sisters have met in a Slam final, period". (Then I remembered all the ones between her and Jeannie Evert...) :lol:

:lol: :lol: You're mean.

StarDuvallGrant
Feb 13th, 2004, 09:27 PM
I would not classify this as reverse racism.

Just because someone is the "first" to do something who happens not to be a white American does not mean there is discrimination or reverse racism. I'm sure the first woman to accomplish something was special because she was the first woman. There is significance in that just as there is significance with what the Williams Sisters accomplished.

I think the idea of reverse racism or discrimination only comes into play by people who feel that when they are born a spot at Harvard or a spot on the tour or a spot wherever is reserved for them simply because of their own race. When someone else who is different comes up and accomplishes what they wish for and think is only for people like them, they cry of reverse this and reverse that to invalidate and lower the accomplishment of that other someone.

Justinefan
Feb 13th, 2004, 09:30 PM
Is there really racism in tennis?? Venus and Serena claim there is? but from whom?

emptyhead
Feb 13th, 2004, 09:32 PM
If both these sisters were Anna Kournikova type sorts, I definitely watch them

DeDe4925
Feb 13th, 2004, 09:35 PM
This is not a bashing thread at all. I am just asking a question re: reverse racism.


If Tennis was a black dominated sport and two white sisters became number 1 and 2...would they be recognized for such things as

"the first White Tennis Player to...."
"The first white tennis siters..."

or...would the media 'not pay attention' to these records.
This would have to be a black world before the "first white" anything will be recognized.

:smash:

for-sure, you are going to :drive: me to :drink:

sheesh :cuckoo:

faste5683
Feb 13th, 2004, 09:36 PM
Depends on whether tennis began as a black ONLY sport.

We would also have to consider the fan base of that sport. Mostly black?
White? What about the media warlords? CEO's of sponsoring companies?

What will be interesting is when NASCAR has several successful Afro-American drivers. Just as in women's tennis, there will be an infusion of of new fans.
:wavey:

DeDe4925
Feb 13th, 2004, 09:54 PM
I would not classify this as reverse racism.

Just because someone is the "first" to do something who happens not to be a white American does not mean there is discrimination or reverse racism. I'm sure the first woman to accomplish something was special because she was the first woman. There is significance in that just as there is significance with what the Williams Sisters accomplished.

I think the idea of reverse racism or discrimination only comes into play by people who feel that when they are born a spot at Harvard or a spot on the tour or a spot wherever is reserved for them simply because of their own race. When someone else who is different comes up and accomplishes what they wish for and think is only for people like them, they cry of reverse this and reverse that to invalidate and lower the accomplishment of that other someone.
:rocker2: RIGHT ON!!

~ The Leopard ~
Feb 13th, 2004, 10:45 PM
There's some reverse racism around (and a lot of reverse sexism). In the case of the reverse racim, I refer to the backlash against colonialism which now has a lot of people talking about white people as if we are just plain evil.

But I don't see it in the tennis world. The praise that Venus and Serena receive for their accomplishments is well deserved. Why not give it a break, for-sure? You seem to be a fan of Bovina and Juju. Why don't you just cheer for "your" players instead of constantly carping about others?

fammmmedspin
Feb 13th, 2004, 10:51 PM
Its a completely US centric question. You couldn't have a "black" global sport anymore than a pink, brown, yellow or green one. if tennis was limited to the US it would be of little interest to the other 5.7 billion people on the planet. If tennis happened solely in Africa no one would ever hear of it.

In the US context it would depend on the reaction of the people who were either existing fans or might be interested in a "white" champion. People who were interested in the game might notice that the current champion was not the usual shade - they might be pleased or displeased by the change. People who thought of themselves as "white" and saw themselves in competion with "black" people might be happier - black people who thought the opposite might be less happy.

It would partly depend on how many people who thought they were not black (and the genetic studies suggest what Americans think they are, or what they look like, isn't a very good indication of African origins) were interested in a sport dominated by people who thought they were black. It would then depend on if they noticed and thought it significant that someone who appeared not to be black rose to the top of the game how much fuss they made.

As one could assume that the rest of US society would be the same as now, it looks unlikely that a "white" champion in a black sport would get as much attention as a breakthrough black player - black players making millions has a political and marketing message that another "white" success story would not have. The vested interests who like the story "black kid does well" have less vested interest in selling the story "white kid does well" because it has no political value (unless you like multicultural participation or dislike black sportstars) and appeals to an already saturated market for white success stories.

sartrista7
Feb 13th, 2004, 10:53 PM
Sometimes commentators are so "race-sensitive" That They bring it Up Unnecessarily. Specifically, when the first W/S Slam final occured, Chrissie was going on about "...the first time 2 African-American sisters...". I wanted to scream @ the TV:

"Hey genius, its the first time 2 sisters have met in a Slam final, period". (Then I remembered all the ones between her and Jeannie Evert...) :lol:

No it wasn't! Maud and Lilian Watson met in the very first Wimbledon ladies' final in 1884.

Infiniti2001
Feb 13th, 2004, 11:00 PM
There's some reverse racism around (and a lot of reverse sexism). In the case of the reverse racim, I refer to the backlash against colonialism which now has a lot of people talking about white people as if we are just plain evil.

But I don't see it in the tennis world. The praise that Venus and Serena receive for their accomplishments is well deserved. Why not give it a break, for-sure? You seem to be a fan of Bovina and Juju. Why don't you just cheer for "your" players instead of constantly carping about others?


:worship: :worship: :worship: This poster definitely needs to get out for a while. :rolleyes: I'm beginning to question his/her sanity for posting so many times in one 24 hour period... :tape:

Martian Willow
Feb 13th, 2004, 11:06 PM
...does Camilla Martin deserve special praise for her achievements as a white woman in the buttercup-yellow world of Badminton...? :)

*JR*
Feb 13th, 2004, 11:08 PM
No it wasn't! Maud and Lilian Watson met in the very first Wimbledon ladies' final in 1884.
Even I wasn't born then, you bitch! :D

Knizzle
Feb 13th, 2004, 11:47 PM
Sometimes commentators are so "race-sensitive" That They bring it Up Unnecessarily. Specifically, when the first W/S Slam final occured, Chrissie was going on about "...the first time 2 African-American sisters...". I wanted to scream @ the TV:

"Hey genius, its the first time 2 sisters have met in a Slam final, period". (Then I remembered all the ones between her and Jeannie Evert...) :lol:
Ummmmm...... Lillian and Maud Watson back at Wimbledon 1884 final.

Fyndh0rnElf
Feb 13th, 2004, 11:58 PM
There's some reverse racism around (and a lot of reverse sexism). In the case of the reverse racim, I refer to the backlash against colonialism which now has a lot of people talking about white people as if we are just plain evil

Yeh :mad: this is not tennis related but it's true

Of course colonialism had lots of bad things and africans suffered a lot, but at least africans weren't chopped to pieces like whites are being killed all over africa right now. And africans are also chopping each other to pieces when it's the case of belonging to different ethnic groups :silly: . The people starve and get slaughtered while the presidents of those countries order 100 mercedes every other day so they can drive the best cars in their palaces

The worst form of racism comes from black people against other black people :scared: they see no problem in wiping out thousands because they belong to a different tribe.

I have a question for the black people of this board! Specially americans: how do you feel about the slavery your ancestors had to endure? Do you appreciate their effort to survive, now that you live in a country which can give you anything you want, compared to the possibility of living in those african countries, had your ancestors not been taken away from africa?

*JR*
Feb 14th, 2004, 12:09 AM
The worst form of racism comes from black people against other black people :scared: they see no problem in wiping out thousands because they belong to a different tribe.

I have a question for the black people of this board! Specially americans: how do you feel about the slavery your ancestors had to endure? Do you appreciate their effort to survive, now that you live in a country which can give you anything you want, compared to the possibility of living in those african countries, had your ancestors not been taken away from africa?
A slight omission here, Elfin One? Like the European Colonial Carving up of Africa preventing its natural evolution. (Sure there'd have been ethnic wars, like there were in Europe, but the attempts to force them into a European paradigm lit the fuse; the ***** wars there sponsored by the US and Soviets made it all go "kaboom")! Careful with the revisionist history, kid.

SJW
Feb 14th, 2004, 12:13 AM
Of course colonialism had lots of bad things and africans suffered a lot, but at least africans weren't chopped to pieces like whites are being killed all over africa right now.
ummm...ok...that makes slavery alright then :retard:

re the question: if the media were the same, then they would get a lot of praise and a lot of publicity just like Eminem does.

Fyndh0rnElf
Feb 14th, 2004, 12:16 AM
A slight omission here, Elfin One? Like the European Colonial Carving up of Africa preventing its natural evolution. (Sure there'd have been ethnic wars, like there were in Europe, but the attempts to force them into a European paradigm lit the fuse; the ***** wars there sponsored by the US and Soviets made it all go "kaboom")! Careful with the revisionist history, kid.

Of course all that you said is true but... WHAT NATURAL EVOLUTION?! :unsure:

And you didn't answer my questions...

:D

~ The Leopard ~
Feb 14th, 2004, 12:19 AM
Mmmmm, some of those inter-tribal wars in Europe were pretty destructive as well. Take WWI and WWII for example.

That's not to deny that there is some nasty reverse-racism in modern Africa, not to mention tribal genocide etc. But white people and black people are exactly as bad as each other - as far as I can see - given the same access to organised power, military and other murderous technology, etc, etc.

And they are exactly as good as each other if you can actually establish a tradition of individual freedom, the rule of law, non-violent resolution of conflict, etc, etc. Those traditions are very recent in Western Europe, North America, Australia, etc.

Dede42
Feb 14th, 2004, 12:31 AM
Yeh :mad: this is not tennis related but it's true

Of course colonialism had lots of bad things and africans suffered a lot, but at least africans weren't chopped to pieces like whites are being killed all over africa right now. And africans are also chopping each other to pieces when it's the case of belonging to different ethnic groups :silly: . The people starve and get slaughtered while the presidents of those countries order 100 mercedes every other day so they can drive the best cars in their palaces

The worst form of racism comes from black people against other black people :scared: they see no problem in wiping out thousands because they belong to a different tribe.

I have a question for the black people of this board! Specially americans: how do you feel about the slavery your ancestors had to endure? Do you appreciate their effort to survive, now that you live in a country which can give you anything you want, compared to the possibility of living in those african countries, had your ancestors not been taken away from africa?
:topic: and in very bad taste. :ras:

Jericho
Feb 14th, 2004, 12:38 AM
Is there really racism in tennis?? Venus and Serena claim there is? but from whom?
oh really? when have Venus or Serena claimed there is racism in tennis? :confused:

IMO, there is racism everywhere so it wouldnt be out of the question that there is racism in tennis which is a predominately white sport

DelMonte
Feb 14th, 2004, 12:38 AM
Fyndh0rnElf, on second though, pls ignore my post. i regretted posting it, the minute i pressed the 'submit reply'.

DelMonte

Dede42
Feb 14th, 2004, 12:39 AM
[QUOTE=Fyndh0rnElf]Yeh :mad: this is not tennis related but it's true

Of course colonialism had lots of bad things and africans suffered a lot, but at least africans weren't chopped to pieces like whites are being killed all over africa right now.

I generally avoid non-tennis related discussions on this board (because I get the feeling that a lot of posters are very young and don't really know much about politics, history, economics) but I am finding it really diffcult not respond to this particular sentence by Fyndh0rnElf. I am not sure whether you are just not familiar with African history,Fyndh0rnElf, or whether you are but chose to wilfully ignore certain facts. I sincerely hope it is not the latter. If you do want to learn more about the history of colonialism in Africa, you can start with the German genocidal policy against the Hereros in Namibia. In case you don't know, 'genocide' means the wilful extermination of a people. I'd be interested to know whether you'll still hold the same views (ie your sentence above), after reading a bit more.

DelMonte
I tend to think it's the latter based upon that terribly silly question to the blacks at the end of his post.

Fyndh0rnElf
Feb 14th, 2004, 12:47 AM
I tend to think it's the latter based upon that terribly silly question to the blacks at the end of his post.

Well I'm sorry then. I didn't mean to offend anyone. I was jsut curious about the way afroamericans feel about their tough road when compared to african peoples' tough road, past, present and future. But I know african americans still struggle today

~ The Leopard ~
Feb 14th, 2004, 12:47 AM
If you regret a post why not just delete it? :confused:

DelMonte
Feb 14th, 2004, 12:52 AM
oops, big mistake on my part. i am relatively new to the board and didn't know you could do that. i will do it ASAP.

DelMonte.

Infiniti2001
Feb 14th, 2004, 12:53 AM
ummm...ok...that makes slavery alright then :retard:

re the question: if the media were the same, then they would get a lot of praise and a lot of publicity just like Eminem does.

I was about to mention eminem SJW :lol: Believe it or not most if not all the black radio stations and magazines I know of embraced him .

SJW
Feb 14th, 2004, 12:57 AM
I was about to mention eminem SJW :lol: Believe it or not most if not all the black radio stations and magazines I know of embraced him .
right?

if he was black, had a hard life, and dissed women, he would be one of many :shrug:

can't hate on him though, he does what he does, and brings in the $$$$$$$$$$s to take care of his little girl

*JR*
Feb 14th, 2004, 01:01 AM
Of course all that you said is true but... WHAT NATURAL EVOLUTION?! :unsure:
I guess "political evolution" would have been clearer wording, as I was referring to a case where Africans could have "worked out their own borders" not to anything genetic.

Dede42
Feb 14th, 2004, 01:09 AM
Well I'm sorry then. I didn't mean to offend anyone. I was jsut curious about the way afroamericans feel about their tough road when compared to african peoples' tough road, past, present and future. But I know african americans still struggle today
Okay, the offense was not intentional, but it was offensive nonetheless. First let me explain that "afro" is a hairdo, not an ethnicity, so we do not consider ourselves "afroamericans". Secondly, I am an American who happens to have been born black. I'm not "african american", although some blacks prefer that and most whites think it's PC to say it. But, that's a whole other thread. To each his own.

I cannot compare the tough road blacks in America had to face since being captured into slavery to Africans, because I don't know anything about what Africans have had to endure, aside from what I've seen and heard on the news and read in history books. And, I have not had to endure the repurcussions of such suffering. You cannot compare suffering. It's like trying to compare slavery and the holocaust or the holocaust and the Serb/Croatian situation, or the genocide of Native Americans by American colonialists or any other suffering by any peoples of the world.

To answer your question, I am very proud of the survival of my ancestors because if not, I would not have been born. I love my country because I'm an American and it's what I know. I'm not so sure that we have advantages that Africans don't have, so it's not like I was saved from anything by my ancestors being captured into slavery and brought to America or vice versa. By the same token, I'm sure if I were born and raised in Africa, I would have loved that country, just as I love America.

~ The Leopard ~
Feb 14th, 2004, 01:11 AM
You seem like a decent person, DelMonte. :wavey: I guess it's too late to delete a post when it's already been quoted at length. You've got to be fast if you decide one of your posts was not helpful. I do it now and then, but it was hard in the midst of this discussion unless you'd acted straightaway.

DelMonte
Feb 14th, 2004, 01:17 AM
You seem like a decent person, DelMonte. :wavey: I guess it's too late to delete a post when it's already been quoted at length. You've got to be fast if you decide one of your posts was not helpful. I do it now and then, but it was hard in the midst of this discussion unless you'd acted straightaway.

thanks. i'll remember to be fast next time i want to delete something.

DelMonte

Dede42
Feb 14th, 2004, 01:22 AM
thanks. i'll remember to be fast next time i want to delete something.

DelMonte
I thought it was a good post. I really think it helped more than hindered.

~ The Leopard ~
Feb 14th, 2004, 01:25 AM
I think that whether "black", "Afro-American", "African American" etc is used is mainly a matter of fashion. "Afro-American" was acceptable at one point. If an American uses a word that is not currently considered acceptable / fashionable, that may be a reason to take offense (i.e. it shows deliberate bad manners), but I suspect that Fyndhornelf may not be American. This is the Internet, not America.

Similarly, I often tell advise non-Australians in a nice way not to use the expression "Aboriginals". To Australian ears, that sounds rude, but people from overseas often use the term without meaning any harm. Currently, one must use the strictly correct expression "Australian Aborigines".

I'm not saying that we should be gentle with people who use (as opposed to mention) well-known vilificatory terms like .... hmmm, I decided not even to mention the terms I have in mind. But I doubt that anyone on this board would ever do such a thing. If they did, I expect they would be banned immediately.

azinna
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:24 AM
Wow. This is a truly philosophical thread. And as usual with philosophy, the tendency to go off-tangent is hard to curb.

First-off, with respect to the original question: if the sport was both dominated from its inception by those of African descent, AND (somehow) still popular enough to get considerable airtime on ESPN, CBS, Eurosport, BBC, etc, then the emergence of a Hingis among Williamses would get extra press. Complete with plays on certain stereotypes (dainty vs athletic, clever vs powerful, light-on-her-feet vs could-have-done-track). See Eminem for an example. Come to think of it, see Justine.

With respect to the African versus African-America experience: having been born in Oklahoma and raised in the US and Nigeria, I can say that this is one of the touchiest questions one could ask. It is now the least talked about question in black America (homosexuality used to have that honour till the dawn of the Down-Low) and Leopard, I don't think you're going to get a satisfying answer on a tennis thread.

With respect to reverse racism in the Colonial History of Africa: I have no problems saying that Africans could have done without the colonial period. That colonialists on the whole exerted a deeply negative, parasitic, dehumanising influence on the continent. That the repurcussions of their stay are myriad and reverberate to this day. And that no European engaged in the imperial project (and/or slave trade) should be proud of their service to Britain, France, Beligium, Portugal, etc, and their disservice to humanity.

Now, this doesn't mean that I think all Europeans to be evil (some actually stayed home, knitting, writing poems, playing tennis). Nor would I have been able to resist slipping something into the drinks of Idi Amin, Mobutu, Kabila, Charles Taylor, Abacha, Babaginda, Shagari, Mugabe, etc, etc. But I am very interested in making sure that all the evil-doers' hands remain stained. And I'm glad that most historians are in agreement.

~ The Leopard ~
Feb 14th, 2004, 02:45 AM
.

With respect to the African versus African-America experience: having been born in Oklahoma and raised in the US and Nigeria, I can say that this is one of the touchiest questions one could ask. It is now the least talked about question in black America (homosexuality used to have that honour till the dawn of the Down-Low) and Leopard, I don't think you're going to get a satisfying answer on a tennis thread.

It was someone else who asked the question, not me.

FWIW, I actually thought the question was in rather poor taste in the context of this thread. On the other hand, I expect that no offence was meant.

azinna
Feb 14th, 2004, 03:17 AM
Sorry for the misattribution, Leopard!

Dede42
Feb 14th, 2004, 04:42 AM
I think that whether "black", "Afro-American", "African American" etc is used is mainly a matter of fashion. "Afro-American" was acceptable at one point. If an American uses a word that is not currently considered acceptable / fashionable, that may be a reason to take offense (i.e. it shows deliberate bad manners), but I suspect that Fyndhornelf may not be American. This is the Internet, not America.

Similarly, I often tell advise non-Australians in a nice way not to use the expression "Aboriginals". To Australian ears, that sounds rude, but people from overseas often use the term without meaning any harm. Currently, one must use the strictly correct expression "Australian Aborigines".

I'm not saying that we should be gentle with people who use (as opposed to mention) well-known vilificatory terms like .... hmmm, I decided not even to mention the terms I have in mind. But I doubt that anyone on this board would ever do such a thing. If they did, I expect they would be banned immediately.

Are you black???!!! If not, you couldn't possibly have an opinion that matters on what it means to be considered Afro-American, African-American or black. The reason I know this is because it goes deeper than what's fashionable at the time. We've been called everything in this country from Negro, colored, ******, etc. So, it's fashionable for whites, but it's not for blacks. We've always considered ourselves black, as whites have considered themselves white, no matter what's fashionable for others to call us. I'm just not buying into the new PC term.

Just because "Afro-American" was acceptable at one time, does that mean that someone can use it now? That's like saying ****** was acceptable at one time, so since they are foreign and they don't know, they can use it. I don't think so. I really don't need you to interpret the meaning of that post. Nor do I need you to explain to me that he is foreign. Just because he is foreign is not an excuse for ignorance. I educated him in what was offensive to me. If he had any questions, I'm sure he will feel free to ask. You are absolutely correct in "reminding" me that this is the internet, which is all the more reason for no excuse to be ignorant on any matter. You, however, are under the mistaken impression that people in America live in a fish bowl and are either too uneducated to learn about any other country in the world or too ignorant to care. Most of those types of people live in trailer parks and projects. This is not a description that fits me and I take offense at the implication.

~ The Leopard ~
Feb 14th, 2004, 08:05 AM
Actually lots of Americans are ignorant and uneducated. Notoriously. Of course, some are also very educated, gracious and civil, but the tone of your response to my scrupulously polite post suggests you are not one of them. I can do without ugly Americans like you, and I couldn't give give a fuck what colour your skin is.

moby
Feb 14th, 2004, 09:54 AM
I love my country because I'm an American and it's what I know. I'm not so sure that we have advantages that Africans don't have, so it's not like I was saved from anything by my ancestors being captured into slavery and brought to America or vice versa. By the same token, I'm sure if I were born and raised in Africa, I would have loved that country, just as I love America.
i dont doubt that you would love africa if you were born there, but trust me, you probably do have advantages that most africans (and for that matter, some americans) don't have - internet access, for example

Circe
Feb 14th, 2004, 12:37 PM
Proof, if any was needed, that powers of comprehension are not equally distributed to all.

azinna
Feb 14th, 2004, 05:39 PM
Actually lots of Americans are ignorant and uneducated. Notoriously. Of course, some are also very educated, gracious and civil...

Spent three years in England in the late 1990s (Oxford and London). And have just come back from a year in Paris. Blew my preconception of Americans to bits. I was shocked to find ignorance (and arrogance) simply sounding more sophisicated when coated with an English or French accent. I think the reason for America appearing to be a cauldron of ignorance has to do with the remarkable social mobility in the country. All sorts of folks (from various social classes, with or without high school diploma) get on TV, radio and film, save up and get on airplanes, safaris and cruises. And they're never afraid to speak up. Oh no.

But the ignorant and uneducated in England and France don't get as many opportunities to spout their views to the world, whether via a microphone or on safari. But go to right into London, Liverpool, Bournemouth, Paris, Arles, Biarittz and you will find them, in considerable numbers and very possibly in equal proportions to the United States.

Fyndh0rnElf
Feb 14th, 2004, 05:51 PM
Okay, the offense was not intentional, but it was offensive nonetheless. First let me explain that "afro" is a hairdo, not an ethnicity, so we do not consider ourselves "afroamericans". Secondly, I am an American who happens to have been born black. I'm not "african american", although some blacks prefer that and most whites think it's PC to say it. But, that's a whole other thread. To each his own.

I cannot compare the tough road blacks in America had to face since being captured into slavery to Africans, because I don't know anything about what Africans have had to endure, aside from what I've seen and heard on the news and read in history books. And, I have not had to endure the repurcussions of such suffering. You cannot compare suffering. It's like trying to compare slavery and the holocaust or the holocaust and the Serb/Croatian situation, or the genocide of Native Americans by American colonialists or any other suffering by any peoples of the world.

To answer your question, I am very proud of the survival of my ancestors because if not, I would not have been born. I love my country because I'm an American and it's what I know. I'm not so sure that we have advantages that Africans don't have, so it's not like I was saved from anything by my ancestors being captured into slavery and brought to America or vice versa. By the same token, I'm sure if I were born and raised in Africa, I would have loved that country, just as I love America.

Thank you :wavey:

Dede42
Feb 14th, 2004, 08:13 PM
Actually lots of Americans are ignorant and uneducated. Notoriously. Of course, some are also very educated, gracious and civil, but the tone of your response to my scrupulously polite post suggests you are not one of them. I can do without ugly Americans like you, and I couldn't give give a fuck what colour your skin is.
LOL, but you see, your assumption that lots of Americans are ignorant and uneducated clearly illustrates your ignorance, bias and stupidity. Scrupulously polite post? Puhleeze...it was very condescending and uninformative. The fact that you think it was scrupulously polite suggests that your diplomacy skills are seriously lacking and you haven't a clue to what you are talking about most of the time. I'm glad you don't care what color my skin is, but don't get your panties in a bunch when I put you back in your place. Let me give you some advice, in the future don't make comments about something you know nothing about. That way, you won't get your little feelings hurt.

emptyhead
Feb 14th, 2004, 08:25 PM
The overall majority of people who post on this board cannot stand Serena & Venus Williams purely because they are black. Theyíll give you all the , oh I like Chanda bullshit, but itís plain and simple, they hate them because they are black.

The overall majority of self confessed Williams fans who post on this board are only here because of Serena & Venus, it has nothing to do with tennis. Theyíll give you all this oh I like Monica bullshit, but itís plain and simple they are only here because Serena & Venus are black.

The overall majority of Anna Kournikova fans who posted here are insane. Theyíll give you all the oh itís nothing to do with her looks, itís her game that attracted me to the sport.

I have not referred to the overall generalisation of tennis fans, because this board does not reflect this.

~ The Leopard ~
Feb 14th, 2004, 11:37 PM
blah, blah, blah.
And if you're going to go through life taking offence when it's obvious that none is intended then that's your problem. :kiss:

*JR*
Feb 15th, 2004, 06:17 PM
The overall majority of people who post on this board cannot stand Serena & Venus Williams purely because they are black. Theyíll give you all the, oh I like Chanda bullshit, but itís plain and simple, they hate them because they are black.

The overall majority of self confessed Williams fans who post on this board are only here because of Serena & Venus, it has nothing to do with tennis. Theyíll give you all this oh I like Monica bullshit, but itís plain and simple they are only here because Serena & Venus are black.

The overall majority of Anna Kournikova fans who posted here are insane. Theyíll give you all the oh itís nothing to do with her looks, itís her game that attracted me to the sport.

I have not referred to the overall generalisation of tennis fans, because this board does not reflect this.
In general, there indeed are tendencies like these lurking (and oft-denied on BOTH sides, as said here). But I think other factors than ONLY race figure into attitudes towards the W/S. (I Still See transcending race As An Achievement I hope they "win").

Re. Anna, I won't be so harsh (been there, did that a year ago) ;) but in fact shelia raises an interesting point: you can love her looks, her game, both, or neither; but those 2 Anna Aspects have zero to do with eachother.

But let's not single Out Only "race and hormones". Why does half the population of Belgium :p post here, pure coincidence? We "Americanadians" tend not 2B that nationalistic as we're "immigrant cultures" (nor do Brits cuz their players well, suck) :o but MOST other posters seem to root for compatriots.

caafje
Feb 15th, 2004, 06:32 PM
I think they would be known as the first "white " etc. Belgian sprinter Patrick Stevens is known as 'the only white participant in the 1996 Olympics final (100m)'.

*JR*
Feb 15th, 2004, 06:45 PM
I think they would be known as the first "white " etc. Belgian sprinter Patrick Stevens is known as 'the only white participant in the 1996 Olympics final (100m)'.With all respect, sprinting isn't a "tour" sport (though a very few elite athletes In It are well paid for endorsements). Also, Whites Weren't defacto barred from competing in many sports for years (even by lack of the chance To Train, as in golf & tennis).

DeDe4925
Feb 17th, 2004, 10:59 PM
And if you're going to go through life taking offence when it's obvious that none is intended then that's your problem. :kiss:
Yep, so don't worry about it :kiss:

Rocketta
Feb 17th, 2004, 11:19 PM
well this is one funny thread....and that's all I'm going to say....;)