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Roddick_tease
Feb 11th, 2004, 08:55 AM
Not speaking of intelligence.

I'm talking about gameplan.

Hingis always knew what she was doing out there. When asked about her attack-the-backhand strategy during her win over Serena in the 2001 AO quarterfinals, for example, Hingis said "I can't be stupid and hit to her forehand."

Hingis is now retired, of course, but what players do you think are the more intelligent ones on the court?

Zvonareva is always changing her gameplan.
Davenport is always aware of what she has to do... just a matter of execution.
Henin, like Hingis, has a lot of variety, and she usually looks pretty sure of the way she plays matches (and she knows Clijsters' game inside-out).

I think the dumbest player is Kim Clijsters. The only match I've ever seen her try a different strategy was the passive Kim at YEC 2002 against Serena, which just barely worked in one match. Other than that however, the girl seems so lost out there sometimes. Same for Serena, actually.

Sometimes Mauresmo looks very clueless on the court, like she's saying "I have all this game but what am I supposed to do with it?"

Thoughts?

skanky~skanketta
Feb 11th, 2004, 09:03 AM
dokic.

i agree with kim to a certain extent. serena too but her gameplan is to just stop missing and most of the time, it works. momo. she never changes her gameplan and its a pity cuz she has oodles of talent.

Xian
Feb 11th, 2004, 09:03 AM
agree with Kim and Serena :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hingis wasnt one of my favourites but she played wonderful tennis with much variation
Sometimes it really sucks to watch Babsi :o

jimbo mack
Feb 11th, 2004, 11:56 AM
lucic and majoli :sad:

crazillo
Feb 11th, 2004, 12:33 PM
Maeeva on Clay, on Carpet and on Grass is a huge difference, too.

SJW
Feb 11th, 2004, 12:41 PM
but you could put it this way, Serena has lost only 8 times in the past two years, so she rarely has to change her gameplan :confused:

John83
Feb 11th, 2004, 12:42 PM
Kim clijsters loses GS finals = Dumb

Deimos
Feb 11th, 2004, 12:49 PM
So you folks are saying that a player who doesn't change strategy is dumb? Well - some players just try to control and dominate every point, and not "respond" to their opponent. I think Serena is like this, she pretty much has her way on court. Usually.

When it isn't broke, so to speak, she doesn't fix it.

sartrista7
Feb 11th, 2004, 12:52 PM
Seconding Kim Clijsters - her favourite plays become very, very predictable after a while but even when it's obvious that an opponent has her figured out, she won't change her gameplan.

Dokic just doesn't do tactics at all. You're right about Mauresmo, she reminds me a lot of Novotna in that she finds it tough to decide what shot to play when, and in pressure situations always chooses the wrong one. Hantuchova was tactically very sound when she first emerged, but regressed a lot last year.

Serena's tactics are excellent when she feels that she's in control, but she rarely seems to be able to change her gameplan against an opponent who has the upper hand - compare the Kim match at AO 2003 with both of her losses to Justine last year. In the Kim match, all she had to do was sort her own game out; in the Justine matches, she needed to change it completely, because her own game wasn't enough to beat Justine. She realised she needed to try something different, but just couldn't seem to figure out what it was.

Nastya and Chanda are superb tactical players.

Glenn
Feb 11th, 2004, 12:53 PM
Dokic.
Hitting flat shots to the left, right, then left, right, left, right, left... etc. doesn't work anymore.

Linnie
Feb 11th, 2004, 12:53 PM
Sometimes Mauresmo looks very clueless on the court, like she's saying "I have all this game but what am I supposed to do with it?"Amélie thinks too much on court sometimes. That's her problem.

tennnisfannn
Feb 11th, 2004, 01:08 PM
have you guys forgotten that towards Higis career she was playing 'dumb' too. She was forever hiting up the middle against the big hitters, and constantly losing. The ability to change strategy has alot to do with confidence. If one's strategy is working, is there a need to change it, does that make them dumb like someone already asked.
I don't buy that Amelie thinks too much on court, what on earth does that mean? Is she undecided, unable to think? A player who thinks executes at the same time.
Is it also implied in this thread that if a player loses they are dumb?

Crazy_Fool
Feb 11th, 2004, 01:53 PM
Kim cos she doesnt have a plan B. That was very evident in the AO final recently. Serena isnt the brightest but what about Capriati, i dont think she thinks much on court?!

sartrista7
Feb 11th, 2004, 02:00 PM
A player who thinks executes at the same time.

Not necessarily... the thinking always precedes the execution, and if you're thinking too much - i.e. too many permutations go through your head along the lines of "if I hit shot X than she'll hit shot Y and I'll have to hit Shot Z, but if I hit shot A then she might be able to hit shot B for a winner if she can run fast enough, and if I don't win this point she'll be up a set and a break EEK" - clearly this does not leave much time for split-second decisions re: execution to be made.

Capriati is very dumb on court, yes.

Havok
Feb 11th, 2004, 02:01 PM
since when do WTA players play smart anyways:lol: its all banging the crap out of the ball

slice
Feb 11th, 2004, 02:13 PM
aranxta sanchez vicario

nicole pratt-always runs round her backhand to hit a forehand.. y dont u just learn a backhand nicole? :rolleyes:

evie dominikovic: whipping forehand and backhand down the centre is all her game is :rolleyes:

lisa raymond: slice wont get u newhere

chanda: maybe u should just lose the wig... u might actually be able to beat a top100 player in straight sets for once.

mauresmo- cakewalk draws, never wins... up 5-0 and 5-2 in sets against kruger, loses 7-5 7-5 :haha:

tenn_ace
Feb 11th, 2004, 02:23 PM
how about to start with Roddick? ;)

Havok
Feb 11th, 2004, 02:28 PM
:yawn: so typical tenn ace. how about Gonzalez. now THERE's someone with no brains at all

CapFan#1
Feb 11th, 2004, 02:30 PM
Speaking of dumb, this thread is dumb. All the people listed above, are in (or have been recently) in the TOP 10 players of the WORLD. You may think that they are not executing a game plan, but you better believe that they are aware of what their opponents bring to the table and what they need to do to win.

Serena---- knows that if she is on her power game and is aggressive, very-very-very few can match her

Kim----- can hit a heavy ball and dictated play with power OR can cover the court and bring back many balls until her opponent misses

Momo---- knows the variety of her game can through off her opponent or use her power to dictate

Jen----- can dictate play from the center of the court or use her awesome court coverage/speed to turn defensive play into offensive strikes. I'll go into greater detail about Jen since she is my fave, and I followed all of her matches for the last 4 years..... def. knows what her opponent brings to the table and what she should do to try to win......EX....Serena, knows she should take the air out of the ball, give her no pace and let her make her own mistakes....EX..... against Momo @ New Haven her plan was to make her run side to side and not let her get a groove on the backhand or the forehand, and it worked very well.

Having said all of that...... it is important to have strategy, however the MOST important thing is to try to impose YOUR game on your opponent. All the top players have good eneogh games to do this successfully and that is why they win!!

tenn_ace
Feb 11th, 2004, 02:38 PM
so typical Naldo... not denying about Roddick :haha:

it's just ironic that a fan of Roddick would start a thread like this :lol:

Havok
Feb 11th, 2004, 02:43 PM
im sorry, but where did i say Roddick was super inteligent tennis player??? mind you he isn't a dumbass on court, but isn't a genius either

tenn_ace
Feb 11th, 2004, 02:54 PM
and Kim is clueless? :rolleyes:

Fyndh0rnElf
Feb 11th, 2004, 03:23 PM
Dokic.
Hitting flat shots to the left, right, then left, right, left, right, left... etc. doesn't work anymore.

I don't think you watch enough tennis. Of course she hits flat shots most of the time but she has variety, including dropshots and lobs, which she uses quite often and that's why she has 2 titles on clay out of her 5 titles. YOU DO NOT WIN TITLES ON CLAY if you don't have a clue about tactics. Her very first title was a tier 1, rome, and some of her biggest wins happened on clay. If she had no tactics we would expect her to do well on hardcourts only and that's not the true. HEre's something for you to think about: Conchita MArtinez led Dokic in head to heads 5-0, and all those wins came on hardcourts. Then Dokic won the next 5, 4 of those matches were on clay. Dokic does know how to play her opponents

Example: Dokic defeats Schnyder Zurich2003 - Dokic played all the time to Patty's backhand, which is crap, something that Mauresmo couldn't read when she lost to Patty the previous round, to defeat her 60 63

Joana
Feb 11th, 2004, 03:24 PM
Amelie amazes me how of so many possible shots to hit she choses the wrong one, especially in tight situations. Whyyyyy? :sad: :sad: :sad:

Crazy_Fool
Feb 11th, 2004, 03:31 PM
Amelie amazes me how of so many possible shots to hit she choses the wrong one, especially in tight situations. Whyyyyy? :sad: :sad: :sad:
Headcase.

Gandalf
Feb 12th, 2004, 09:53 AM
I'm surprised that people cite Chanda as a good tactical player...I think that she usually follows the instructions of her coach, but that if they don't work she keeps using them over and over and over again...all the way to the defeat.

Serena's problem is, in fact, that she's too good. She thinks that if she plays her game she will win the match (as it is 95% of the time), and when it doesn't work she doesn't try anything different.

Anna K. has the same problem as Momo: too many options, and most of the times choosing the wrong one...

Roddick_tease
Feb 12th, 2004, 09:55 PM
so typical Naldo... not denying about Roddick :haha:

it's just ironic that a fan of Roddick would start a thread like this :lol:

It's interesting that everyone assumes I'm a fan of Roddick. Personally I don't have much of an opinion on his game, I just think he's hot and I want his dick. Thanks.

bmxbandit
Feb 12th, 2004, 09:59 PM
It's interesting that everyone assumes I'm a fan of Roddick. Personally I don't have much of an opinion on his game, I just think he's hot and I want his dick. Thanks.:haha: :worship:

flyingmachine
Feb 12th, 2004, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by Roddick_tease
It's interesting that everyone assumes I'm a fan of Roddick. Personally I don't have much of an opinion on his game, I just think he's hot and I want his dick. Thanks.

:haha: :haha: :haha: You have to fright against Roddick's girlfriend for the battle of the bed

flyingmachine
Feb 12th, 2004, 10:52 PM
Not speaking of intelligence.

I'm talking about gameplan.

Hingis always knew what she was doing out there. When asked about her attack-the-backhand strategy during her win over Serena in the 2001 AO quarterfinals, for example, Hingis said "I can't be stupid and hit to her forehand."

Hingis is now retired, of course, but what players do you think are the more intelligent ones on the court?

Zvonareva is always changing her gameplan.
Davenport is always aware of what she has to do... just a matter of execution.
Henin, like Hingis, has a lot of variety, and she usually looks pretty sure of the way she plays matches (and she knows Clijsters' game inside-out).

I think the dumbest player is Kim Clijsters. The only match I've ever seen her try a different strategy was the passive Kim at YEC 2002 against Serena, which just barely worked in one match. Other than that however, the girl seems so lost out there sometimes. Same for Serena, actually.

Sometimes Mauresmo looks very clueless on the court, like she's saying "I have all this game but what am I supposed to do with it?"

Thoughts?

Speaking of gameplan of the players

Hingis- The most best tactician player in the tennis game ever. she has huge varity in her game, a quick thinker, with very little errors almost the prefect player. Shame she's retired now. :sobbing:
Henin- Similar to Hingis has huge varity in her game and a quick thinker but still a way to go before she can reach the Hingis level of tactic skill. Sometimes her gameplan can be inconsistence.
Zvonareva - I agree with you.
Davenport - Agree with you too.
Serena - She's not that dumb she 's only make things easier for himself, she has a simple gameplan but very effective gameplan and anyway you would'nt change your gameplan when you are winning.
Mauresmo - She's can be a bit clueless at times, which is a shame but this is more to do with the execution rather than I don't know what to do.
Clijsters - Unfortunty the least tacticly of all. She has great strength and techquie but lacks strategy. I saw her playing against Justine in the AO final and it seems she has no idea how to beat Justine (the bad line call did not make the difference) especailly now Justine has beefy up you can't just beat
her with strength alone she have to think (just use her brain) how to beat and improve her gameplan otherwise she's still second best and this is may be if Serena back to her old best again.

alextreiber04
Feb 12th, 2004, 10:56 PM
Definetely Jennifer -

Everytime I see her play she always hits it to the wrong spot. E.g. vs. Serena at FO 2002 she just kept hitting it down the middle and Serena was able to do stuff with it...E.g. vs. Loit she kept hitting it to her forehand and Loit almost beat her

CinnamoninCinema
Feb 12th, 2004, 11:25 PM
Clijsters, hands down (among the top players). She has the worst shot selection I have seen from somebody who has done so well as she has. If she ever gets some strategy, look the fuck out.

CapFan#1
Feb 12th, 2004, 11:29 PM
Definetely Jennifer -

Everytime I see her play she always hits it to the wrong spot. E.g. vs. Serena at FO 2002 she just kept hitting it down the middle and Serena was able to do stuff with it...E.g. vs. Loit she kept hitting it to her forehand and Loit almost beat her

PLEASE!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Loit almost beat Jen??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Jen spanker her ass in the 3rd 6-2 and ONLY lost the 2nd after a brief loss of concentration in the 2nd.

LET ME SAY IT AGAIN... ANY PLAYER WHO HAS BEEN #1 IN THE WORLD AND/OR WON GRAND SLAMS(JEN HAS DONE BOTH) IS NOT A "DUMB" PLAYER AND KNOWS HOW TO CONSTRUCT POINTS AND PUT TOGETHER A WINNING GAME PLAN!

ENEOUGH SAID.... THIS THREAD IS DEAD!

for-sure
Feb 12th, 2004, 11:30 PM
but you could put it this way, Serena has lost only 8 times in the past two years, so she rarely has to change her gameplan :confused:

I never lost a match on the WTAtour.

for-sure
Feb 12th, 2004, 11:32 PM
PLEASE!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Loit almost beat Jen??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Jen spanker her ass in the 3rd 6-2 and ONLY lost the 2nd after a brief loss of concentration in the 2nd.

LET ME SAY IT AGAIN... ANY PLAYER WHO HAS BEEN #1 IN THE WORLD AND/OR WON GRAND SLAMS(JEN HAS DONE BOTH) IS NOT A "DUMB" PLAYER AND KNOWS HOW TO CONSTRUCT POINTS AND PUT TOGETHER A WINNING GAME PLAN!

ENEOUGH SAID.... THIS THREAD IS DEAD!

You do not win the French Open (beating Hingis) by being a dumb player. The reason Jenn hits fewer winners than other top 10 players is thanks to her great point making abilities. You will get many of her shots...but you won't hit them well.