PDA

View Full Version : Justice for Justine!


tennisIlove09
Feb 10th, 2004, 03:05 AM
Justice for Justine

Henin-Hardenne may lack warmth, but her titles are well-deserved

Posted: Monday February 9, 2004 5:23PM; Updated: Monday February 9, 2004 5:23PM
http://i.cnn.net/si/.element/img/1.0/misc/F1A617.px.gif
window.onerror=function(){clickURL=document.locati on.href;return true;} if(!self.clickURL) clickURL=parent.location.href; http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.element/img/1.0/story/email_this.gif (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/jon_wertheim/02/09/mailbag/index.html#) http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.element/img/1.0/story/print_this.gif (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/jon_wertheim/02/09/mailbag/index.html#) http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.element/img/1.0/story/save_this.gif (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/jon_wertheim/02/09/mailbag/index.html#) http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.element/img/1.0/story/most_popular.gif (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/jon_wertheim/02/09/mailbag/index.html#)


A full boat of Davis Cup action this past weekend. Instead of rehashing all the results, I encourage you to check out the ITF's superb Web site at www.daviscup.com .... Congratulations to Andy Roddick who set the record for the fastest serve in a match in tennis history with his 150-mph bomb against Stefan Koubek during the U.S.-Austria tie .... Immediately after the Yanks swept Austria, it was announced that Thomas Muster would take over the Austrian captaincy....The Americans got a surprise foe for their next tie. A few hours (or so it seems) after winning the Cup in 2003, the Australians were upset in Adelaide by the Swedish team. Both Thomas Enqvist and Jonas Bjorkman beat Mark Philippoussis in singles....The other big upset: Belarus beat Russia....The Netherlands win over Canada was bittersweet as Paul Haarhuis injured his arm during the Saturday doubles and promptly announced his retirement from tennis. Though he has pared back the events he's played in recent years, Haarhuis will go down as one of the great doubles players in the Open Era.....

Not a great week for the WTA. A day after Serena Williams pulled out of Paris, Venus withdrew from her quarterfinal match in Tokyo with a knee injury. Chanda Rubin went down with a knee injury as well. Considering that Monica Seles (foot), Jennifer Capriati (back), Amelie Mauresmo (back) and Martina Hingis (foot) are also on the equivalent of the disabled list, the WTA ought to try to figure out how women's tennis has suddenly become such a hazardous occupation. Lindsay Davenport won the Tokyo event for the 73rd time, beating Magdalena Maleeva in the final. Rennae Stubbs and Cara Black won the doubles....

http://i.cnn.net/si/.element/img/1.0/misc/advertisement_down.gif
document.adtile = (document.adtile||0) + 1;document.random = document.random || Math.ceil(1+1E12*Math.random());document.write('') ;dcmaxversion = 7dcminversion = 4DoOn Error Resume Nextplugin = (IsObject(CreateObject("ShockwaveFlash.ShockwaveFlash." & dcmaxversion & "")))If plugin = true Then Exit Dodcmaxversion = dcmaxversion - 1Loop While dcmaxversion >= dcminversion on error resume next Sub FlashAd_FSCommand(ByVal command, ByVal args) call FlashAd_DoFSCommand(command, args)end sub http://m3.doubleclick.net/868897/livespin_300x250_30_3_v1.gif ("]http://m3.doubleclick.net/868897/livespin_300x250_30_3_v1.gif[/url]http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/si.siw.dart/;sz=300x250;ad=yes?[/img] (http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/si.siw.dart/;sz=300x250;ad=yes?)
Some college tennis notes: Illinois beat UCLA 4-0 Sunday to win its second straight title at the U.S. Tennis Association/Intercollegiate Tennis Association National Men's Team Indoor Championships at the University of Washington's Lloyd Nordstrom Tennis Center. The win extends No. 1 Illinois' win streak to 39 straight matches dating back to the beginning of last season... Top-seeded Stanford beat No. 2 Georgia 5-0 Sunday to win its record seventh title at the U.S. Tennis Association/Intercollegiate Tennis Association National Women's Team Indoor Championships at the University of Wisconsin's A.C. Nielsen Tennis Stadium..... UCLA's Chris Lam and Stanford's Amber Liu both received the United States Tennis Association Sportsmanship Award Saturday at the USTA/ITA National Team Indoor Championships in Seattle and Madison, Wis.

Random notes: New Yorkers be forewarned: John McEnroe is coming to the Learning Annex on Feb. 23rd. Check out [url]www.learningannex.com for more info...Astute readers pointed out that the establishment referenced last week is Legz Diamond -- not Legs....The ATP announced that U.S. player Graydon Oliver tested positive for the diuretic hydrochlorothiazide during the 2003 Tennis Masters Series tournament in Miami. An independent three-person Tennis Anti-Doping Program tribunal determined that the source of the diuretic was a mislabeled, over-the-counter herbal sleep management product. The tribunal ruled that Oliver, 25, committed a Class 1 doping offense with "exceptional circumstances", and sanctioned him with a two-month suspension commencing Friday, Feb. 6, 2004. Oliver also must forfeit 75 doubles ranking points and $5,000 in prize money, the amount of prize money and points he earned in Miami. He's eligible to return to competition on Monday, April 5, 2004 .... I write this flying back to New York from Stockholm and as I listen to SAS' musical selections (busted my iPod) I hereby submit that Starship's We Built This City is the single worst song ever recorded....Two pieces of good news: Goran Ivanisevic is back in action. The Croat will play in Milan, marking his first event since Queens Club, 2003. Also Tommy Haas is playing in San Jose....The ATP's Tennis Masters Cup Uncovered DVD is out and available for public consumption. Check out: http://www.atptennis.com/en/ (http://www.atptennis.com/en/) ....Speaking of which: thanks to some of our friends in the tennis community, our swag supply has been replenished. Stay tuned next week for another contest.

Re: The pronunciation of "Nalbandian" ... Let's call the whole thing off. Liliana Karl of Cordoba, Argentina claims it's "Nal-ban-deean", stressing the last "A" while Daniel Alonso of Santa Fe, Argentina asserts it's "Nal-bun-deean," while Vera Tukourian (note the Armenian surname) of Los Angeles, believes it's "nal-BUN-dyun" while Art Corona of Phoenix says in Spanish you pronounce every letter so it's "Nal-BAND-I-an." Got that?

To the questions:

What is with all the Henin-hate from tennis fans? She is mentally tough and there is nothing wrong with her on-court attitude. Tennis has a long tradition of that kind of behavior, and Henin should be proud to follow in the footsteps of fellow "cheaters" and "hustlers" and "gamers" like Jimmy Connors, Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario and Michael Chang (yep, M. Chang). And Martina Hingis. --Andrea, Tallahassee, Fla.

The phones lit up this week with similar questions and I'm completely stumped by this one. Let's get this straight: Henin-Hardenne is the devil incarnate because.... she put up a finger indicating that the Clijsters ball was out? So what? How many times do we see football players motion in their team's direction when refs decide who recovered the fumble? How many basketball players protest when it's clear they committed a foul. How many baseball players trap the ball and then raise an arm to indicate the catch was clean? This is not cheating. This is, at worst, gamesmanship. As we said last week, it's incumbent on the officials not be swayed by these displays.

It's clear that Henin-Hardenne is more ambitious than Lady Macbeth. She is tough and driven and ruthlessly businesslike. She may lack the surface warmth of other players -- not least her opponent in the final. But to suggest that she plays dirty pool or that her titles are somehow ill-deserved is plain wrong.

As gifted and lovely to watch as Roger Federer is, I find it hard to consider him the most talented player ever (as commentators are saying these days) when one thinks of the virtuosic play of Pete Sampras while he was the No. 1 player for six years in a row. On a stroke-by-stroke (serve, forehand, backhand, service return, volley, overhead) basis, how would you compare Sampras' strokes and movement at his peak with Federer's? --Franklyn Ajaye, Melbourne, Australia

Let's start out by saying that Sampras' real gift was a neurological one. The guy was (triple cliché alert) a money player who found ways to win and rose the occasion. Check out Pete's career record in finals and you realize that exquisite talent is all well and good but he had to have the mental game to complement it. Strictly on technical merits, Federer might be the superior player. But until he replicates Sampras' mental strength, this "Next Pete" label is premature. Anyway, comparing the two stroke-by-stroke, I'd say:

Forehand: Pretty even. I'll give the nod to Sampras but not by much.

Backhand: Federer

Return: Federer

First serve: Sampras by a little

Second serve: Sampras by more than a little

Net game: Pretty even.

Movement: Federer

After watching the Henin-Davenport match I was disappointed that the commentators didn't mention what I felt needed to be said. Davenport is an extremely gifted player whose lack of footwork (which is a direct result of her lack of fitness and conditioning) prevent her from beating top players consistently. As a result, I am always left feeling that she is underachieving. Your thoughts? --Ryan, Johannesburg

Davenport is an extremely gifted ball-striker but an extremely average athlete. She's not fast, she's not quick, she's not light on her feet -- and no amount of conditioning or roadwork or dieting is going to change that. During her heyday, she was hitting more accurately and competing better than anyone else; it wasn't as though she was channeling Marion Jones with her speed. My complaint about Davenport -- and my guess is that she wouldn't necessarily contest this -- is that she gets down on herself way too easily. She misses a routine ball and you get the feeling it's still stuck in her craw three points later. A lot of times her body language and carriage suggests defeat and you look at the scoreboard and she's still very much in the match. Opponents, however, see her hangdog look and hear her muttering at herself under her breath and surely it energizes them.

Do you know of a source that lists the tournaments in which Martina Navratilova has committed to play this year? I've done a cursory check on the Web and couldn't find anything. Because I've never seen her play in person, I would like to take advantage of this -- her last year -- to watch her play in person. I can guess the "big" tournaments in which she will play, but I am wondering if she'll compete at any that are more conveniently located to the Midwest. --Jamie Prenkert. Bloomington, Ind.

Doubles players don't usually have to commit in advance but sources at the WTA believe -- subject to change of course -- that Navratilova is tentatively playing Indian Wells, Miami, Charleston (possibly), Rome, Roland Garros, Eastbourne and Wimbledon. Good luck.

Do you think Lleyton Hewitt is back to Top 5 form or does he simply not have the firepower to stay with guys like Federer and Roddick anymore? Also, just a quick point to pass along to Cedric of Belgium. After spending the last two years in Oz, 'Aussie Kim' is an extremely affectionate nickname the Aussies have bestowed on her. So view it as a compliment not as a threat. --Bart, Washington

One of reasons fans of men's tennis ought to be so happy about the Australian Open is that even when the top names lost, they did so under the best possible circumstances. There were no cases of Sargis Sargsian beating Roddick or Ivo Karlovic beating Hewitt or Luis Horna beating Federer. Hewitt looked razor-sharp in his first few matches, beat Nadal in straight sets in a high-quality match and then took a set off of Federer before wilting. There are losses that have you contemplating changing careers and there are losses that have you shrugging and saying "too good." This was the latter.

Anyway, I think Hewitt will win his share of matches. Firepower is not his strong suit but it's almost as if the men's game has gone down a notch in terms of brute force. With the exception of Roddick and maybe Marat Safin, is there really a banger in the Top 10? Federer will hit his share of aces and screamers but his game is so multi-faceted I wouldn't call him a power player. Coria? Nalbandian? Agassi? Ferrero? Grosjean? Moya? Henman? Do any of them blow Hewitt of the court?

More than anything, what will keep Hewitt from returning to the upper reaches is his schedule. A) He doesn't play as often as he should and it takes a toll empirically; B) Because he plays so seldom, the Slams are freighted with that much more significance. I wonder whether his lackluster showing at the last five majors stems in part from the added pressure he faces knowing that anything less than a quarterfinal will hurt him in the standings.

How do you become a linesperson at the US Open? --Julie, Orono, Maine

A few of you have asked this recently. Can anyone at the USTA help us out here? While we await a response, here's a tip: if you're going to overrule a close ball on the far baseline in the latter stages of a Grand Slam final, make damn sure you're correct.

After reading your "50 items" I am a little disappointed because you didn't give one to what players from my country, China, achieved in the Open. Two pairs battled into the round of 16 and eight in women's doubles. Plus, we won the girls' doubles. We are really moving up in the rankings [at least on] the women's side. Anyway, it would be nice if you could pay a bit more attention to Chinese tennis players in the future, because I really want to read your comments and thoughts about them! Thanks and sorry for the Chinglish. You have a nice week. --B.D, NJ (Nanjing, not New Jersey), China

No worries about the Chinglish. Point taken. The girls doubles winners, for the record were Sheng-Nan Sun and Yung Jan Chan of China.

I have been following the interviews via the transcripts posted on the Australian Open Web site. Some of the questions posted never fail to amaze me as far as how little research and effort the journalist in question has done before the interview. And this question really strikes me as banal and purposeless: "What are your tactics against X whom you are playing next?" Which player in their right mind would give away information that could spell the difference between victory and defeat? Your views? --Rhys, Singapore

I couldn't disagree more vigorously. Tennis press conferences represent the single wittiest exchanges since the Gladstone-Disraeli debates. My favorite line of inquiry: "What are your plans for the [hardcourt/clay/indoor] season." And you thought Helen Thomas was a tough interrogator....

Granted, the ESPN coverage leaves lots (LOTS!) to be desired. But, just to play devil's advocate, I personally hate being jerked back and forth between matches. When the match you are watching is over, show us (extensive) highlights of another match, don't bop back and forth. I find it very unsettling. I enjoy the rhythm, or ebb and flow, of a match and you can only get that if you watch the whole thing in one go. There is enough 'dead time' between feature matches etc. to show plenty of other matches. As mentioned, my bigger beef is with ESPN's decisions on what matches to feature to begin with. --Scott Urista, N.Y.

I totally disagree on this one, too. The first few rounds of a Grand Slam are like the cocktail hour at a wedding reception. Sure, you could set up shop at the Swedish meatballs steam tray and stick to the reliable standby. But isn't it more fun to peregrinate among the sushi bar, the cheese board and the moo-shu station, and then stand next to the swinging kitchen door so you get first dibs on the satay?

As it pertains to tennis, why not ping-pong back and forth, cutting away liberally to show us tight situations or a few games of an up-and-coming player we might not otherwise see? You know how during the NCAA basketball tournament Duke-Campbell is the featured game but by the time the score is 54-15, the CBS programmers have the good sense to cut to an 8-9 game that is headed to overtime? ESPN ought to do the same. Give us some Agassi, but when the guy is up a set and two breaks, it's time to cut to Chela and Dent deadlocked at 5-5 in the fifth.

It's interesting to me that in No. 47 of your Australian Open review you fail to acknowledge that both of Aussie junior player Olivia Lukaszewicz's double-bagel defeats came at the hands of the eventual women's and girls' champions. Shouldn't that add some perspective to her dubious feat this year? --Matt Henry, Santa Cruz, Calif. Indeed it does.

Please comment on this: Agassi was Top 5 before Sampras was even close. He's Top 5 after Sampras has retired. And Agassi has won all four majors. How can Sampras be considered the greatest of all time when there is one slam he couldn't/wouldn't ever win? Isn't Agassi greater? --Matt Waters, St. Petersburg, Fla.

Here are three reasons Sampras has the richer legacy:

1) Sampras has won a good many more majors.

2) Whereas Agassi started strong and is ending strong, there was the Blue Period, when he fell to a triple-digit ranking. Sampras was a benchmark for consistency whose six straight years at No. 1 remains one of tennis' most underrated achievements.

3) Sampras more or less owned Agassi head-to-head and routinely beat him on the biggest stages.

Here's some food for thought. One of the knocks against Sampras is that he lacked a rival who regularly tested him and pushed him both physically and emotionally. Sure, Sampras is linked with Agassi but they never took on the dimensions of Borg-McEnroe, Chrissy-Martina, or even, one could argue, Becker-Edberg. Sampras led Agassi 20-14, but was 6-2 in majors. Perversely, had Sampras lost more often to Agassi -- enough so that they could truly be regarded as rivals -- might it have helped his legacy in the long term?

Other than an effective serve, what else is Anastasia Myskina missing? --Jessie Lin, Taipei, Taiwan

This is like the old morbid joke: "Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?" The lack of an effective serve is an absolutely critical deficiency. Quite apart from the practical implications there is a psychic price as well. The serve is really the foundation of most players' games. When it is not remotely threatening and you have to struggle to hold, it puts that much more pressure on every other shot and it changes the entire psychology of a match. As an aside, what is it about Russian women and shaking serving? Myskina, Dementieva, and even Kournikova (perhaps the name rings a faint bell) all have nice games from the backcourt; but so long as you can time their serves with a sundial you can write them off as serious Grand Slam threats. As for Myskina, she could stand an on-court attitude adjustment as well as an upgraded serve -- though I suspect the two are closely tied together.

Martin Verkerk was suffering from a virus which forced him to retire against Hewitt in the semis. He thought it was worth trying it against Corretja, but hadn't recovered properly. Respect to him for going out there anyway and just giving it a shot. It took him some time to learn how to handle the attention and pressure after Roland Garros but, believe me, he will definitely string together some good results again this year! --Frank, Amsterdam

Point taken. For both his sake and tennis' sake, it would be nice if he didn't go Chris Lewis on us.

Have we come to the end of the line regarding Guga Kuerten in terms of being a legitimate Grand Slam contender? It seems as if he's lost some movement since the hip surgery. If so, this is a huge bummer for tennis but considering what this operation did to Magnus Norman, it's not surprising. Should we just be happy if Guga stays in the Top 30 and makes an occasional fourth- round/quarterfinal run at a Slam?-- J.T., New York

Notice the players who had the hip surgery within months of each other -- Kuerten, Norman, and Harel Levy -- are really struggling to make it back. I wouldn't write off Kuerten as a has-been just yet. With some semblance of health he is still a threat at Roland Garros. But as far as making another deep run at a hardcourt Slam (to say nothing of Wimbledon), I tend to agree that it's tough to envision.

I have a feeling that I'm not alone on this. Please have a read: I am a long-time Agassi fan going back the late 80's and early 90's. Even though he's obviously still a force on tour, I am beginning to plan for "life without Andre" in terms of being a fan, and I would like to hitch my wagon to one of the new guys coming along. I can't figure out who the guy should be though. My prerequisites are that the player be: A) complete and talented enough to compete for titles on all four surfaces, B) play a classic baseline game relying more on angles, returns, groundies and strategy than just the sheer power of a serve and forehand and C) have at least a "touch" of charisma or electricity to him. I enjoy Roddick's and Safin's charisma, but am positively allergic to their "power games". Federer is uber talented, but falls much more into the Borg or Sampras mode both on and off the court. I like Hewitt, but wonder if he has "the goods" to win majors moving forward. Ferrero? Nadal? Any Suggestions? --Hampton Long, New York

Tough one. It's not as though as players like Agassi come along every three or four years. Given your criteria, why not go with Federer? His game is easy on the eyes, he can play on any surface and while he might not have Agassi's magneticism (no singular feat, that), he is certainly likable. Ferrero, like Agassi, takes the ball early, returns well and plays with power that belies his strength. The knocks against him are that he is unlikely to win Wimbledon and, while he's a nice enough bloke, I'm not sure he meets the "electricity" criteria. Hewitt is a mediocre player on clay, plus he's not exactly a force in the charisma department. Guillermo Coria still needs to step up his hardcourt results. Safin is a threat on all surfaces but, of course, we wouldn't want to induce an allergic reaction. Why not take a flier player along the lines of, say, Rafael Nadal who has a boundless future and is clearly no surface specialist? If you're willing to drop a few notches on the food chain, how about, say, Gaston Gaudio, who is unlikely ever to threaten for a major but can play capably on any surface and is fun to watch.

Whatever happened to the delightful and talented Top 10ers from the early 80's, Bettina Bunge and Sylvia Hanika? --RK, Boston

Plum cake and sauerbraten for anyone who can offer an update on this Teutonic twosome.

HAVE A GREAT WEEK EVERYONE!!!

Siyasema
Feb 10th, 2004, 05:18 AM
Justine has always been an interesting case for me.

I enjoy her matches against both Venus and Serena, especially Serena, much like I enjoyed watching Martina H., Jennifer, and Lindsay play against both Serena and Venus.

It's never been about invalidating her wins and her championships or awards. That's simply nothing that can be taken away and it's about individual merit and achievement.

My sole problem will always be the French Open and that is part crowd and part the Justine camp. When you see a favorite treated in such a way that eventually produces tears never seen before, the gut reaction is to begrudge the other player and circumstances of that event. Whether it's fair or not unfortunately.

Her effort and determination aren't a problem for me because it's partly why I enjoy watching her play. I don't have to like her to watch her play, enjoy her matches and respect her talent.

slice
Feb 10th, 2004, 07:04 AM
no they're not. she cheated her way thru them,k including two GS finals (hand up against serena french semi's 2003 and 2004 oz open applying pressuring to umpire when the ball did skrape the line) :fiery:

servenrichie
Feb 10th, 2004, 08:53 AM
Justine has always been an interesting case for me.


I enjoy her matches against both Venus and Serena, especially Serena, much like I enjoyed watching Martina H., Jennifer, and Lindsay play against both Serena and Venus.

It's never been about invalidating her wins and her championships or awards. That's simply nothing that can be taken away and it's about individual merit and achievement.

My sole problem will always be the French Open and that is part crowd and part the Justine camp. When you see a favorite treated in such a way that eventually produces tears never seen before, the gut reaction is to begrudge the other player and circumstances of that event. Whether it's fair or not unfortunately.

Her effort and determination aren't a problem for me because it's partly why I enjoy watching her play. I don't have to like her to watch her play, enjoy her matches and respect her talent.Well said. My sentiments exactly. I was a fan until the "hand" incident:o

minboy
Feb 10th, 2004, 10:56 AM
Well said. My sentiments exactly. I was a fan until the "hand" incident:o
no, it is not your sentiment! you're a justine-hater, bamboodragon is not.

vandy
Feb 10th, 2004, 11:43 AM
I recently watched the incident over again on tape. I think it should be said, that five seconds before she held her hand up the chair umpire overruled a linesmen in favor of Serena. In this case Serena also held her finger out, (she was correct) but Justine probably felt that she was getting robbed. This was the second time Serena stopped play because of a ball going out. The fans were still noisy, and that is why she tried to hold up play. Watch the French open and then watch the U.S. open back to back. I think the crowd was worse for longer at the open. And also the chair umpire incorrectly overruled a ball at game point for Jennifer, that Justine went on to lose.

servenrichie
Feb 10th, 2004, 11:45 AM
no, it is not your sentiment! you're a justine-hater, bamboodragon is not.You wont recognise one if it bites you on the ass:cool:

Greenout
Feb 10th, 2004, 01:01 PM
"Lack of warmth"?????????????????


WTF? She never game me the "lack of warmth" vibe. Where is
this guy coming from? NRR-DEN is no diva nor frosty on court;
so why "lack of warmth"? I don't get it?

alexusjonesfan
Feb 10th, 2004, 01:05 PM
"Lack of warmth"?????????????????


WTF? She never game me the "lack of warmth" vibe. Where is
this guy coming from? NRR-DEN is no diva nor frosty on court;
so why "lack of warmth"? I don't get it?
Erm, it's just Wertheim's damning with faint praise as usual ;)

Greenout
Feb 10th, 2004, 01:07 PM
Erm, it's just Wertheim's damning with faint praise as usual ;)


Maybe we should start doing "hot" songs for Justine in her
"kick it" thread. I've posted a couple new numbers, check it out.
Their not "hot" songs though.

Hot Stuff- Donna Summer
Fire- Ohio Players
Boogie Nights - Heat Wave



:lol: :p

alexusjonesfan
Feb 10th, 2004, 01:11 PM
Maybe we should start doing "hot" songs for Justine in her
"kick it" thread. I've posted a couple new numbers, check it out.
Their not "hot" songs though.

Hot Stuff- Donna Summer
Fire- Ohio Players
Boogie Nights - Heat Wave



:lol: :pI'm really likin how we've transformed the thread into an '80's groove lounge. I'll check out the new stuff, I was thinking of 'she works hard for the money' as well ;)

...and to think, we haven't even ventured into the Madonna/Cyndi Lauper material yet :lol:

Greenout
Feb 10th, 2004, 01:16 PM
I'm really likin how we've transformed the thread into an '80's groove lounge. I'll check out the new stuff, I was thinking of 'she works hard for the money' as well ;)

...and to think, we haven't even ventured into the Madonna/Cyndi Lauper material yet :lol:

We haven't even gotten into PRINCE, the POLICE or 1-hit wonders.


Wang Chuang
"Everybody have fun tonight..everybody Allez tonight"