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View Full Version : Monica Seles: The cleanest ball-striker in the history of women's tennis


hingis-seles
Feb 8th, 2004, 02:30 PM
I was watching Monica's 1992 Wimbledon semifinal against Martina Navratilova and was just amazed at the shots she'd come up with. The angles, precision and power. It was all such absorbing tennis. It made me wonder if anyone has been a cleaner ball-striker in the history of women's tennis. The ability absolutely amazes me. In 2003, I got to watch a Monica practice session in Dubai and it was simply mesmerizing. She barely missed and was hitting so well and hard and accurately of both sides.

So, what do you guys think? Anyone who's been a better ball-striker than Monica Seles?

great smash
Feb 8th, 2004, 02:31 PM
There surely won't be many. But then it's so vital that she's well positioned and that's where things tend to go wrong

hingis-seles
Feb 8th, 2004, 02:36 PM
There surely won't be many. But then it's so vital that she's well positioned and that's where things tend to go wrong
I agree. The injuries and her lack of fitness have greatly hindered her. But honestly, I can not think of any other player who has ever hit the ball so well, so consistently. Obviously that was affected after 1993 due to her fitness issues, but she still seems to me to be the best ball-striker in history.

SJW
Feb 8th, 2004, 02:37 PM
i'm sticking with Linzi Davenport

but Monica is right up there

you can hear the effor with Monica, but with Linzi it is just 100% natural

MarcusRock
Feb 8th, 2004, 02:38 PM
I was watching Monica's 1992 Wimbledon semifinal against Martina Navratilova and was just amazed at the shots she'd come up with. The angles, precision and power. It was all such absorbing tennis. It made me wonder if anyone has been a cleaner ball-striker in the history of women's tennis. The ability absolutely amazes me. In 2003, I got to watch a Monica practice session in Dubai and it was simply mesmerizing. She barely missed and was hitting so well and hard and accurately of both sides.

So, what do you guys think? Anyone who's been a better ball-striker than Monica Seles?I'll accept this. I mean, it's not like you're biased or anything. LOL.

MLF
Feb 8th, 2004, 02:39 PM
Of the other players on the tour only Capriati & Davenport would rival Monica as cleanest striker of the ball. Tracy Austin hit a very clean ball.

Greenout
Feb 8th, 2004, 02:39 PM
Lindsay, Mary, Kimiko Date etc.... Monica is not the cleanest hitter of
the ball in WTA history.

We usually associate "clean" hitting with players that take the
ball early on the "rise" like Jenn or believe it or not when she
use to know how to play ...Kournikova circa 1997.

SJW
Feb 8th, 2004, 02:39 PM
effor=effort :)

Volcana
Feb 8th, 2004, 02:40 PM
Lindsay Davenport, among active players. Her accuracy was uncanny. When she sets up, she simply doesn't mis-hit. Howevr, she could not hit the angles up the line Monica could. See the final of Toray Pan Pacific 2003.

Chris Evert - Most accurate player I've ever seen. NEFORE she even made the tour, it was said she could hit 100 straight balls into the same corner of the court without missing. A fanatic about practice. When Chris beat Rosie Casals when Chris was 14, Rosie was in tears. BJK consoled her by noting that Chris had 'probably hit more balls than we have'. Untouchable among living players inthe accuracy department.

Darop.
Feb 8th, 2004, 02:41 PM
I'll accept this. I mean, it's not like you're biased or anything. LOL.
:lol:

hingis-seles
Feb 8th, 2004, 02:41 PM
I'll accept this. I mean, it's not like you're biased or anything. LOL.
I never claimed to be unbiased. :devil:

hingis-seles
Feb 8th, 2004, 02:45 PM
Lindsay Davenport, among active players. Her accuracy was uncanny. When she sets up, she simply doesn't mis-hit. Howevr, she could not hit the angles up the line Monica could. See the final of Toray Pan Pacific 2003.

Chris Evert - Most accurate player I've ever seen. NEFORE she even made the tour, it was said she could hit 100 straight balls into the same corner of the court without missing. A fanatic about practice. When Chris beat Rosie Casals when Chris was 14, Rosie was in tears. BJK consoled her by noting that Chris had 'probably hit more balls than we have'. Untouchable among living players inthe accuracy department.
Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to watch the Tokyo '03 final. Isn't it true for both Lindsay and Monica that they don't mist-hit when they set up?

Chris Evert! Can't believe I didn't think of her. Wasn't Monica a more powerful version of her though? :confused: I had not heard that anecdote about Chris Evert. Thanks for that. :lick:

MLF
Feb 8th, 2004, 02:48 PM
Chris Evert - Most accurate player I've ever seen. NEFORE she even made the tour, it was said she could hit 100 straight balls into the same corner of the court without missing. A fanatic about practice. When Chris beat Rosie Casals when Chris was 14, Rosie was in tears. BJK consoled her by noting that Chris had 'probably hit more balls than we have'. Untouchable among living players inthe accuracy department.

Volcana, I've no idea what age you are but have you seen any of the matches between Chris Evert & Tracy Austin between '79 & '81 when Tracy was really taking over their rivalry? That was before Tracy's injuries kicked in. I've only seen brief clips and was wondering how the younger Tracy managed to beat Chris at her own game.

Volcana
Feb 8th, 2004, 03:11 PM
Volcana, I've no idea what age you are
Old

but have you seen any of the matches between Chris Evert & Tracy Austin between '79 & '81 when Tracy was really taking over their rivalry?
yes

how the younger Tracy managed to beat Chris at her own game.
Tracy Austin was a POWER htter. She was a little wisp of a thing, but she smacked the hell out of the ball. She beat Chris by clean overpowering her. In fact, if you listen to her commentary when she on, you'll usually hear references to the how hard she hit. She simply blew the ball by Chris.

Well, I oversimplify. Tracy wasn't QUITE as accurate as Chris, but she was close, and she could make the ball travel at (what was considered at the time) incredible rates of speed. Think Serena vs a weaker Lindsay.

The pity is injuries derailed her career. Austin-Navratilova is a rivalry we never saw, but it would have been great.

MLF
Feb 8th, 2004, 03:31 PM
Thanks Volcana. I always assumed that Tracy must have hit with a bit more pace than Chris to make the difference as her game was basically moulded on Chris'.

I don't think people realise how huge a threat to Navratilova-Evert Tracy was. She had a stint at #1 and led Chris in head to head 9-7 and trailed Martina 20-14 when she retired. If for argument's sake you consider 1979 - 1981 the only period where Navratilova, Evert & Austin were all fit at the same time ( plus with Tracy being at a reasonable age to compete with them ) the head to heads are even more positive for Tracy. She led Chris 9-3 in that period and Martina 12-11 in that period.

MisterQ
Feb 8th, 2004, 04:37 PM
Monica is right up there among the cleanest most precise ball strikers of all time.

As others have stated, Lindsay is clearly up there, maybe even at the top of the list, and Capriati at her best is close too.

Evert and Hingis need credit for incredible consistency of ball-striking as well.

I also agree it's a shame that Tracy Austin's career was so brief. People forget what an amazing player she was.

Knowles
Feb 8th, 2004, 04:40 PM
When is Monica scheduled to return to the tour again?

DA FOREHAND
Feb 8th, 2004, 04:45 PM
Don't confuse consistancy w/ball striking.

Chris Evert
LIndsay Davenpoort
Jennifer Capriati
Mary Jo Fernandez

hingis-seles
Feb 8th, 2004, 04:49 PM
Don't confuse consistancy w/ball striking.

Chris Evert
LIndsay Davenpoort
Jennifer Capriati
Mary Jo Fernandez
Speaking of bias....;) :tape:

DA FOREHAND
Feb 8th, 2004, 04:51 PM
Speaking of bias....;) :tape:
If I were being biased, STEFFI GRAF:notworthy::notworthy: would be at the top of the list.

hingis-seles
Feb 8th, 2004, 04:55 PM
If I were being biased, STEFFI GRAF:notworthy::notworthy: would be at the top of the list.
There was a reason the ;) was placed next to the :tape: . Quite obviously, you didn't get it. :tape:

starr
Feb 8th, 2004, 04:56 PM
For beautiful technique combined with power -- Lindsay Davenport wins hands down.

And for once I agree with Da. Consistency and accuracy are not the same as clean hitting.

hingis-seles
Feb 8th, 2004, 04:57 PM
DF, i'm curious though as to why you chose Mary Joe.

DA FOREHAND
Feb 8th, 2004, 05:01 PM
For beautiful technique combined with power -- Lindsay Davenport wins hands down.

And for once I agree with Da. Consitency and accuracy are not the same as clean hitting.


Exactly...take Coetzer...very consistant...but also consistantly mishits balls(off center strikes)

jimbo mack
Feb 8th, 2004, 05:03 PM
lindsay davenport hits the cleanest ball, hands down.

starr
Feb 8th, 2004, 05:04 PM
ack!! just first saw the typo when you quoted me. :o

LindsayRocks89
Feb 8th, 2004, 05:08 PM
Id still say Lindsay Davenport is the cleanest striker of the ball

DA FOREHAND
Feb 8th, 2004, 05:18 PM
Id still say Lindsay Davenport is the cleanest striker of the ball
AGREED

jenny161185
Feb 8th, 2004, 06:01 PM
Lindsay and Mary - what cut Tracy Austins career so short and ho many slams did she win? one? I never knew the story

R&J
Feb 8th, 2004, 06:12 PM
I was watching Monica's 1992 Wimbledon semifinal against Martina Navratilova and was just amazed at the shots she'd come up with. The angles, precision and power. It was all such absorbing tennis. It made me wonder if anyone has been a cleaner ball-striker in the history of women's tennis. The ability absolutely amazes me. In 2003, I got to watch a Monica practice session in Dubai and it was simply mesmerizing. She barely missed and was hitting so well and hard and accurately of both sides.

So, what do you guys think?
I am biased as well, but I'll go with that. ;)

JonBcn
Feb 8th, 2004, 06:15 PM
So, um...who hits dirty balls?

CJ07
Feb 8th, 2004, 06:31 PM
I think Monica is a more consistent cleaner hitter than Davenport
But Davenport in terms of when she's on is a bit cleaner

if that makes sense

oh and what about Venus? j/k I'm not that biased :p

rfs1999
Feb 8th, 2004, 08:07 PM
Go Monica

ktwtennis
Feb 9th, 2004, 12:34 AM
Lindsay, Mary, Kimiko Date etc.... Monica is not the cleanest hitter of
the ball in WTA history.

We usually associate "clean" hitting with players that take the
ball early on the "rise" like Jenn or believe it or not when she
use to know how to play ...Kournikova circa 1997.Um, Monica is considered to be one the earliest hitters of the ball--in fact, she was the first...

Sam L
Feb 9th, 2004, 12:41 AM
Helen Wills.

Remember, Monica, Linzi et al uses larger racquet heads meaning more room for error and more room to hti cleanly. Give them a wooden racquet that Wills used and you'll get...:tape:

Honorable mentions go to Chris Evert and Maureen Connolly. They were actually probably more consistent than Wills but Wills had more power.

calabar
Feb 9th, 2004, 12:49 AM
In the HISTORY of women's tennis. You mean since the game was invented? I wish posters would stop using words/phrases like:

Ever
Of all time
in history

Come on posters, go easy on the hyperbole, will you?

bionic71
Feb 9th, 2004, 12:55 AM
Monica is certainly one of the best I have ever seen...........

Although Chris Evert is hard to fault....she also made the transtion from wood to graphite whilst maintaining the integrity of her technique....she gets the nod from me.

Notable mentions -
Davenport, Graf, Austin.

spencercarlos
Feb 9th, 2004, 01:04 AM
i'm sticking with Linzi Davenport

but Monica is right up there

you can hear the effor with Monica, but with Linzi it is just 100% natural
I agree... I think Lindsay hits a harder ball as well. Serena hits also better than Seles. I would Rank Monica third!

bionic71
Feb 9th, 2004, 01:49 AM
I think some are confusing the terms "clean" and "hard".
It is obvious that players such as Venus, Serena (in fact most of the current top 250) would hit "harder" than Chris Evert.

It is virtually impossible to maintain the shot integrity, balance and consistency that Evert displayed against todays power hitters......there is just not enough time to set up.

Most of todays players hit open stance and late in comparison to Evert.....that is purely an adaptation to the power that players generate with the new racquets.

As I posted above, Evert maintained her shot integrity even when faced with the shift from wood to graphite. The reason for this smooth shift was her simple technique that resulted in clean shot making.

On the mens side it was thesame for Connors...who had a long successful career into his mid 30s due to clean shot making.

Of the current players...Agassi is the same. His technique and error free shot making has enabled him to counter the growing number of bigger hitters...

Leo_DFP
Feb 9th, 2004, 02:06 AM
Monica is second to Lindsay. I'd also mention Mary Pierce.

bionic71
Feb 9th, 2004, 02:20 AM
Monica is second to Lindsay. I'd also mention Mary Pierce.

Oh yes...of the current players Mary Pierce must rate a mention..

Mark43
Feb 9th, 2004, 03:29 AM
So, um...who hits dirty balls?
Two words - Francoise Durr!

LUIS9
Feb 9th, 2004, 04:04 AM
Yes it is true one must make a distinction between clean hitting or striking of the ball and hitting consistenly and accurately. In my opinion i think i would give this one to Monica Seles, i mean yes Davenport hits a cleaner ball but Monica hits almost as clean but is a lot more accurate! Besides i am a bit biased i just love the angles Seles produces, its just a beauty to watch her play at her best capability taking into account her level of fitness today. I mean looking at her match against Chanda in 96 at the aussie i was baffled by the angles either really acute inside the basile or really obtuse and wide in the back of the court.
Now i would give praises to Hingis and Evert for consistency and accuracy, Coetzer gets 2nd place or a good mentioning for consistency.
So heres how i see it in an objective manner
Clean striker of the ball:
1-Seles/Davenport
2-Davenport(less accurate)
3-Capriati
the rest i am not sure
Accuracy and consistency:
1) Hingis/ Evert
2) Evert because she never faced power hitters just a young Graf i think
3) Probably Seles
4) Austin really havent seen much of her on court
5) Coetzer
then everyone else follows

Volcana
Feb 9th, 2004, 04:29 AM
2) Evert because she never faced power hitters just a young Graf i think

THe difference in racket technology accounts for some of today's pace. Bearing that in mind, here's a list of players Chris had to face regualrly who hit the ball with considerable pace, given the technology.

Margaret Smith Court
Martina Navratilova
Hana Mandlikova
Tracy Austin
Olga Morozova
Betty Stove
Andrea Jaeger

CinnamoninCinema
Feb 9th, 2004, 05:36 AM
Who hits dirty balls?

How many times have you seen Justine shank a backhand?

Venus and Serena mishit an overhead?

Clijsters hit several shanks in the AO final.

etc etc

starr
Feb 9th, 2004, 05:39 AM
THe difference in racket technology accounts for some of today's pace. Bearing that in mind, here's a list of players Chris had to face regualrly who hit the ball with considerable pace, given the technology.

Margaret Smith Court
Martina Navratilova
Hana Mandlikova
Tracy Austin
Olga Morozova
Betty Stove
Andrea Jaeger
I wouldn't say Jaeger hit with pace. She was the moon ball queen.

tennnisfannn
Feb 9th, 2004, 05:45 AM
Who hits dirty balls?

How many times have you seen Justine shank a backhand?

Venus and Serena mishit an overhead?

Clijsters hit several shanks in the AO final.

etc etcThat shanking at this year's AO looked to me like it was affected by the lines, Agassi shanked quite a few and yet he is considered a very clean striker of the ball.
I disagree with the overhead misses by serena, i think she is veru good with that overhead and when she does get that it is goodnight.

Volcana
Feb 9th, 2004, 05:49 AM
I wouldn't say Jaeger hit with pace. She was the moon ball queen.
Okay, so we aren't thinking of the same Andrea Jaeger. No sweat.

morbidangle
Feb 9th, 2004, 06:26 AM
Monica is one the cleanest ball strikers.. I don't think you can point someone as the best, but Lindsay,Mary and Monica hit the cleanest among active players..

TS
Feb 9th, 2004, 06:31 AM
Monica Seles...Lindsay Davenport....Mary Pierce...Jennifer Capriati....take your pick.

When they're all playing at their best, their groundies are amazing to watch. All 'clean' strikers of the highest order...lol.

faboozadoo15
Feb 9th, 2004, 07:29 AM
i could go along with monica of course, but im happily biased.
anyway, it's pretty subjetive of a topic, like anything else. but in this you can be a really clean striker without pace like these girls. martina hingis hit a really clean ball.

we often talk about who hits a "heavy" ball, and the same people come up (seles, dav, pierce, jelena, jenn, mirjana) but then u add in the williams sisters-- do they hit heavy but not clean? i think we need to sort some things out here...

Dennis
Feb 9th, 2004, 08:32 AM
I got to watch a Monica practice session in Dubai and it was simply mesmerizing. She barely missed and was hitting so well and hard and accurately of both sides.

So, what do you guys think? Anyone who's been a better ball-striker than Monica Seles?I totally agree !! Monica hits the ball so clean such a great technique !
I was in Dubai last year too. We must have watched Monica at the same time ?!! Were you the guy with a video camera filming her practise ? After the practise you talked to her when she was on the way to continue practiseing on the center court. After that me and my mother stopped her and eventhough she was in a hurry she took a picture with us and appologised for being "smelly" when I came close to her and hugged her for the photo. She is sooooo lovely and cute !!!!

hingis-seles
Feb 9th, 2004, 09:53 AM
I totally agree !! Monica hits the ball so clean such a great technique !
I was in Dubai last year too. We must have watched Monica at the same time ?!! Were you the guy with a video camera filming her practise ? After the practise you talked to her when she was on the way to continue practiseing on the center court. After that me and my mother stopped her and eventhough she was in a hurry she took a picture with us and appologised for being "smelly" when I came close to her and hugged her for the photo. She is sooooo lovely and cute !!!!
OMG! I am so jealous! I never got a chance to get a picture taken with Monica. :fiery: ;) :p

I attended her practice after the match with Mauresmo. I was sitting in the front row, but the woman didn't let me take pictures. :sad: But what an amazing practice session. :worship:

hingis-seles
Feb 9th, 2004, 09:58 AM
So, basically its between Lindsay and Monica with honorable mention to Mary P and Chris.

Someone asked why I used the term "in history". Well, why not? I don't see what the big deal is. After all, we are considering all the women's tennis players in history, aren't we? Sam L mentioned Helen Wills Moody. I think it's Monica, but it's just my opinion and I wanted to know what the other board members thought. Some interesting responses.

Dennis
Feb 9th, 2004, 10:16 AM
"but the woman didn't let me take pictures..."

Who didn't let you take the picture? Monica was with Andreas(the guy she practised with). No woman was there with her. Do you mean the girl in a veil that was on court some times ?
Was that the only practise of Monica that you attended? I think that I only missed that one after the Maresmo match becouse I had no idea she would practise immidiately after it, but you must have been there when she practised in the morning before the match vs Schiavone.
We were so lucky to meet Monica there becouse, we had no idea she was on the way to the center court. She suddenly apperead in front of us and my mother was so excited and asked Monica in Bosnian (Yugoslavian) if she wanted to take a picture. Monica understood it and even continued talking with us in the same language.She spoke it fluently which is amazing concerning that she left the country while still being so young, and she speaks Hungarian at home.
My mother could not find her camera and got little bit nervouse and frustrated becouse of it. Monica saw that, giggled and said "It's maybe in your bag" pointing on me. She was right, I had camera with me but I totally forgott that due to all excitment.

vancouverite
Feb 9th, 2004, 10:17 AM
I wouldn't say Jaeger hit with pace. She was the moon ball queen.Yes, but she could truly belt the ball when she wanted to. There were no moonballs in her semi-final destruction of BJK at Wimbledon in 1983! (On the other hand, she drove Virginia Ruzici to distraction when she moonballed her way to a 6-1,6-0 demolition of the Romanian at the US Claycourt championships one year...'81, I think?)

As for 'clean' strikers of the ball, I think Davenport edges the field in this category. Her height and timing mean she can hit screaming flat winners with what looks like almost no effort. Most of the great champions hit a clean ball accurately, but Lindsay's tops when she's 'on'.

Monica scores above all others in the power/accuracy/angles combination (and she took the ball earlier than anyone who preceded her; I've seen no one currently who takes in any earlier, though some take it as early). The Williams girls place very high (if not at the very top) in terms of sheer power shot for shot. And when Pierce is on, she can be amazingly powerful. Graf is in a special category, as her forehand was so vastly superior to her backhand in terms of pace that it created most of her match-winning opportunities.

Accuracy alone? Pretty hard to argue against Chris, though Ted Tinling described Suzanne Lenglen as 'a super-accurate Chris Evert'. Hingis and Seles would be very close behind Evert/Lenglen in the accuracy stakes, as would Graf be. Haven't seen enough of Wills to comment on her power/accuracy combination, but historians have said Maureen Connolly had the more powerful backhand (Wills apparently hit a heavier forehand) and was uncannily accurate with her power. But Pancho Gonzales and BJK thought Chris would still win the matches she and Mo Connolly would have played, because she was slightly bigger and hit that much harder (as succeeding generations usually do;) )...

Then, there's the serve-volleyers. A whole new category!:)

hingis-seles
Feb 9th, 2004, 10:42 AM
"but the woman didn't let me take pictures..."

Who didn't let you take the picture? Monica was with Andreas(the guy she practised with). No woman was there with her. Do you mean the girl in a veil that was on court some times ?
Was that the only practise of Monica that you attended? I think that I only missed that one after the Maresmo match becouse I had no idea she would practise immidiately after it, but you must have been there when she practised in the morning before the match vs Schiavone.
We were so lucky to meet Monica there becouse, we had no idea she was on the way to the center court. She suddenly apperead in front of us and my mother was so excited and asked Monica in Bosnian (Yugoslavian) if she wanted to take a picture. Monica understood it and even continued talking with us in the same language.She spoke it fluently which is amazing concerning that she left the country while still being so young, and she speaks Hungarian at home.
My mother could not find her camera and got little bit nervouse and frustrated becouse of it. Monica saw that, giggled and said "It's maybe in your bag" pointing on me. She was right, I had camera with me but I totally forgott that due to all excitment.
:lol: @ the camera incident!

I flew in to Dubai the day after the Schiavone match. I flew to Dubai specially to watch Monica. I only saw the practice after the Mauresmo match and the woman in the veil said taking pictures wasn't allowed.:fiery:

I still snapped a few pics when she wasn't looking. :devil:

Dennis
Feb 9th, 2004, 10:57 AM
...and the woman in the veil said taking pictures wasn't allowed.
UHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! That woman !!:mad:

Did you ask Monica directly ?
It was difficult to get close to her when she was practising and one can not shout and disturb her there offcourse. I shouted Monica when we saw her the first time there she turned her head and smiled but I felt asshamed that I behaved so.
I guess you had to ask that girl becouse she was standing there, by the entrance to the practise courts.

IcePrincess
Feb 9th, 2004, 11:03 AM
EVERT
DAVENPORT
CAPRIATI

In that order.

If you have ever studied tennis or played competitively, you will understand.

(If not, save the BS for somebody else.)

:wavey:

vancouverite
Feb 9th, 2004, 11:14 AM
EVERT
DAVENPORT
CAPRIATI

In that order.

If you have ever studied tennis or played competitively, you will understand.

(If not, save the BS for somebody else.)

:wavey:
Hmmmm....well, I've studied tennis and played it competitively, but I wouldn't presume to dismiss the opinion of anyone who hasn't. Everyone here seems to have at least watched most of the players they've cited. Why shouldn't they be allowed to voice their opinion?:confused:

Dennis
Feb 9th, 2004, 11:54 AM
EVERT
DAVENPORT
CAPRIATI

In that order.

If you have ever studied tennis or played competitively, you will understand.

(If not, save the BS for somebody else.)

:wavey:Only becouse Evert,Davenport,Capriati have rather orthodox ,tennis book, style of playing does not mean that they hit the ball cleanest of all.
Besides, Capriati backand does not look nice. It does not look lika a "natural" shot, does not look fluent to me.

"
If you have ever studied tennis or played competitively, you will understand.

(If not, save the BS for somebody else.)
"

What a smart comment !!:rolleyes:

DA FOREHAND
Feb 9th, 2004, 01:18 PM
Only becouse Evert,Davenport,Capriati have rather orthodox ,tennis book, style of playing does not mean that they hit the ball cleanest of all.
Besides, Capriati backand does not look nice. It does not look lika a "natural" shot, does not look fluent to me.

"
If you have ever studied tennis or played competitively, you will understand.

(If not, save the BS for somebody else.)
"

What a smart comment !!:rolleyes:


We're not discussing the "nicest" looking strokes, she could hold one hand over her head and still hit cleanly...ie...striking the ball consistanly in the sweet spot of the racquet...Jennifer is very good at that.


Davenport
Evert
Capriati :worship:

hingis-seles
Feb 9th, 2004, 02:27 PM
EVERT
DAVENPORT
CAPRIATI

In that order.

If you have ever studied tennis or played competitively, you will understand.

(If not, save the BS for somebody else.)

:wavey:
Great choices. Can't argue with those. The arrogance with which you're trying to shove your opinion down everyone's throat is another matter all together.

Spirit
Feb 9th, 2004, 02:49 PM
Go Monica
Where's the exclamation point?

Dammit, rfs1999, I want my exclamation point!!!!!!

DA FOREHAND
Feb 9th, 2004, 02:58 PM
One who consistanly hits the ball from the sweetspot of thier racquet...

see Lindsay Davenport, Jennifer Capriati

Dennis
Feb 9th, 2004, 04:41 PM
One who consistanly hits the ball from the sweetspot of thier racquet...

see Lindsay Davenport, Jennifer Capriatiand you have watched tapes of each match particularly paying attention to the ball during that milisecond contact with the racquet strings, zooming it in to decide weather it is the sweet spot or not!

Only the player himself can feel if the shot was offcenter or not.

MarcusRock
Feb 9th, 2004, 04:53 PM
and you have watched tapes of each match particularly paying attention to the ball during that milisecond contact with the racquet strings, zooming it in to decide weather it is the sweet spot or not!

Only the player himself can feel if the shot was offcenter or not.Oooooh DA FOREHAND! Dennis called you a lying, fabricating loser who probably hasn't done any research on what he's said.

Are you gonna take that? Dang!

alfajeffster
Feb 9th, 2004, 05:56 PM
Helen Wills.

Remember, Monica, Linzi et al uses larger racquet heads meaning more room for error and more room to hti cleanly. Give them a wooden racquet that Wills used and you'll get...:tape:

Honorable mentions go to Chris Evert and Maureen Connolly. They were actually probably more consistent than Wills but Wills had more power.
BRAVO!!! Helen Wills and Maureen Connolly were renowned for their clean ball striking off both wings, and enough cannot be said for the differences in racquet head size. If you hit with a snowshoe, sure you're going to get alot more clean balls and amazing angles. Give Monica Seles a standard size frame during her best years, and she wouldn't be able to crack the top 10.

DA FOREHAND
Feb 9th, 2004, 06:47 PM
and you have watched tapes of each match particularly paying attention to the ball during that milisecond contact with the racquet strings, zooming it in to decide weather it is the sweet spot or not!

Only the player himself can feel if the shot was offcenter or not.

Did you read anywhere in my post where I said I could feel they hit the ball in the sweetspot?

As a tennis player, you can hear the diff. between a well struck ball, and a mishit, why don't you turn the voluem up when you watch a match, or take your headphones off when/if you ever catch a live match, or better yet..go out and hit some balls. :rolleyes:

QUEENLINDSAY
Feb 9th, 2004, 07:03 PM
Evert started it!!!!
Seles adds more power and angles to it!!!!!
DAVENPORT Perfected it!!!!!

hingis-seles
Feb 9th, 2004, 08:25 PM
Give Monica Seles a standard size frame during her best years, and she wouldn't be able to crack the top 10.
I wonder about that, since she did play with a wooden racquet as a kid. But I suppose, your statement holds true for Monica as well as Lindsay, Mary and just about everyone else save Hingis.

alfajeffster
Feb 9th, 2004, 10:11 PM
I wonder about that, since she did play with a wooden racquet as a kid. But I suppose, your statement holds true for Monica as well as Lindsay, Mary and just about everyone else save Hingis.
And players like Lisa Raymond would have a much different track record...

faboozadoo15
Feb 9th, 2004, 11:22 PM
Give Monica Seles a standard size frame during her best years, and she wouldn't be able to crack the top 10.
bullshit... give monica's fight, anticipation, strength, timing, and ability to hit angles and you would have a top 10 player in any generation...

also, define "standard" frame... 100 sq in and under... because if you did any research on tennis history, you would know that she has... BIA

entertain yourself with your bullshit... no need fo it here :wavey:

bw2082
Feb 10th, 2004, 12:18 AM
How do you hit the ball accurately and consitently without hitting it cleanly?

faboozadoo15
Feb 10th, 2004, 01:58 AM
How do you hit the ball accurately and consitently without hitting it cleanly?
a player like anke huber took quite a bit of the frame with extreme topspin-- that's one example i can think of.

Diya
Feb 10th, 2004, 02:05 AM
DaForehand and alfajeffster really LOVE Monica :devil: :worship:

Eventhough i am a Monica fan i have to admit that Lindsay is the cleanest striker of the tennis ball but Monica is a close seconf followed by Jennifer and then there is Mary Pierce . (Funny how all of them happen to me amongst my most favorite players on the tour ) . I also have to say that Grafs forehand is still the best shot EVER :eek:

However no one can create the kinda angles that Monica does

Dennis
Feb 10th, 2004, 07:57 AM
Did you read anywhere in my post where I said I could feel they hit the ball in the sweetspot?

As a tennis player, you can hear the diff. between a well struck ball, and a mishit, why don't you turn the voluem up when you watch a match, or take your headphones off when/if you ever catch a live match, or better yet..go out and hit some balls. :rolleyes:Yes, you think Davenport hits the cleanest of all becouse she hits the ball flat with not very much top spin, and offcourse the sound is diffrent than when you put the spin on it. That does not mean that Arantxa, Ferrero etc do not hit clean.

Regarding the discussion about playing with the wooden racquets:
Players had totally different technique back than; continental grip, hitting the ball beside the body and not in front of it, which is a must in modern tennis.
I am affraid that noone from that old generation who plays with that style would have a chance today, unless you are Martina Navratilova so you can serve and volley.

IcePrincess
Feb 10th, 2004, 11:06 AM
hingis-seles
Dennis
vancouverite

Darlings,

I love to compete with other tennis enthusiasts. ;)

If you're ever in southern CA, please contact me.

My IMs are turned on.

Tootles. :)

:wavey:

faboozadoo15
Feb 10th, 2004, 09:02 PM
Yes, you think Davenport hits the cleanest of all becouse she hits the ball flat with not very much top spin, and offcourse the sound is diffrent than when you put the spin on it. That does not mean that Arantxa, Ferrero etc do not hit clean.

Regarding the discussion about playing with the wooden racquets:
Players had totally different technique back than; continental grip, hitting the ball beside the body and not in front of it, which is a must in modern tennis.
I am affraid that noone from that old generation who plays with that style would have a chance today, unless you are Martina Navratilova so you can serve and volley.
i agree. and if you're by far the best player of your generation like monica seles, you could adapt to any style of play.

DA FOREHAND
Feb 12th, 2004, 07:25 PM
Aranxta a clean striker of the ball...LOL

You've obviously never seen her strike a forehand.

Tatiana Panova
Feb 12th, 2004, 07:50 PM
I associate clean with hitting the ball bang in the centre of the racquet so there is total economy with the ball striking. I think Mary when she is on hits the most balls cleanly with the least amount of effort. Lindsay brushes the ball more than Mary which is why I think Mary just edges her. But Lindsay and Monica are second only to her, and we are talking fractionally here and many days they are as good or better. Jen's forehand is extremely sweetly hit as well.

DA FOREHAND
Feb 12th, 2004, 08:02 PM
Hitting the ball cleanly has nothing to do w/the amount of spin put on the ball and everything to do w/consistantly hitting the sweetspot of your racquet.:rolleyes:

Tatiana Panova
Feb 12th, 2004, 08:09 PM
I disagree it has a lot to do with spin. Conchita Martinez hits with loads of spin, would you call her an exceptional clean hitter? I am talking fractionally here. It is just that Mary has always had that ability to hit right through the ball - not many players can do that. Also have u ever actually played tennis da forehand?:rolleyes:

R&J
Feb 12th, 2004, 08:12 PM
One who consistanly hits the ball from the sweetspot of thier racquet...

see Lindsay Davenport, Jennifer Capriati & Monica Seles

DA FOREHAND
Feb 12th, 2004, 08:13 PM
I don't recall anyone bringing up Conchita's name, you seem to be confusing topspin shots w/flat shots, and thinking those who hit flat automatically hit cleaner...WRONG!

R&J
Feb 12th, 2004, 08:19 PM
BRAVO!!! Helen Wills and Maureen Connolly were renowned for their clean ball striking off both wings, and enough cannot be said for the differences in racquet head size. If you hit with a snowshoe, sure you're going to get alot more clean balls and amazing angles. Give Monica Seles a standard size frame during her best years, and she wouldn't be able to crack the top 10.
lol! You have got to be kidding, I know this is your opinion - and everyone has the right to what they think - but come on! Monica is talented enough to have adjusted and still been top 10. Hell, she would have still made it to #1. Now thats my opinion. And I know that you were just giving your opinion.
But that sure is a bold statement, to say Monica would never have made it with a standard size frame. When you know that the chances are she would have, and would have done very well.

Tatiana Panova
Feb 12th, 2004, 08:20 PM
There's no automatic about it pal. When you hit with topspin you present loads of the racket head to the ball and therefore there is more chance of you shanking it, rather than hitting it cleanly, which still begs me to ask the question have you ever played tennis? Of course hitting cleanly is not about hitting flat shots otherwise you would just hit the ball into teh backfence everytime. What I am talking about is a cleanly hit topspin drive - and in my opinion Mary is one the best, if not the best. She also totally hit cleaner than Graf when she clocked her in 94. Anyway this is boring me (I am boring myself!).:rolleyes:

PS - read some articles by Robert Lansdorp! Take heed!

DA FOREHAND
Feb 12th, 2004, 08:27 PM
"(I am boring myself!)."

Your truest statement yet.

Yes hitting w/topspin you have a possibility of shanking the ball, that doesn't mean you can't consistantly hit from the sweetspot.


Again...write it down damn! This is about consistantly hitting from the sweetspot not the spin or lack of spin inparted on the ball.

Perhaps you need to have a seat....http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=102815&goto=newpost

alfajeffster
Feb 13th, 2004, 08:41 PM
lol! You have got to be kidding, I know this is your opinion - and everyone has the right to what they think - but come on! Monica is talented enough to have adjusted and still been top 10. Hell, she would have still made it to #1. Now thats my opinion. And I know that you were just giving your opinion.
But that sure is a bold statement, to say Monica would never have made it with a standard size frame. When you know that the chances are she would have, and would have done very well.
Let's dissect her game for a minute. I realize that was a bold statement, and with the amount of fans of the person floating around here, and the decided absence of fans of the game itself, I expected a little backlash. All for this: Monica Seles has used a racquet with proportions over 100 square inches right throughout her career. She hits with 2 hands, and uses the size of the face of the racquet, and it's oversized sweetspot to her advantage to hit western grip paddle shots that usually don't resemble tennis strokes, even when compared to two-handers from the 70s and 80s. If we were to objectively replace the racquet (not the player) with a standard size frame of 65 square inches (or less in some cases)- it would move the much smaller sweetspot that much further outside her strike zone, and she would have much greater difficulty timing two-handed shots off both sides. Have you ever seen Frew McMillan play? He hit with 2 hands on both sides with a small frame. Have you ever seen Pancho Segura play? He hit with a 2-handed forehand with a standard frame. In their day, they were both better athletes, yet still were unable to win a major in singles. Monica Seles was never known for her athletic abilities. It's almost a mathmatical certainty if you think about it.