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VS Fan
Feb 17th, 2002, 02:20 AM
In the EIGHT biggest events of the year: AO, FO, Wimby, USO, IW, Miami, CO, and the Sanex Championships:

In 2001 the score is Venus 3, Serena 3, Jennifer 2, Martina 0.

OR.... Williams 6, Jen 2, Martina 0.

Any questions?

:bounce:

disposablehero
Feb 17th, 2002, 02:23 AM
7 of those are the biggest 7.

Rome is almost universally acknowledged as more important than the Canadian Open. And that comes from a Canadian.

Williams Rulez
Feb 17th, 2002, 02:25 AM
Actually... if you include the events with the strongest fields, these should be the biggest events in no particular order:

US Open
Wimbledon
Australian Open
French Open
Porsche Tennis Grand Prix
Acura Classic
Ericsson Open
Indian Wells
Sanex Tour Championships
Pilot Pen Tennis

disposablehero
Feb 17th, 2002, 02:28 AM
Indeed. The fields have been odd for the past year. Rome for a couple, because many of the top players are not comfortable on the red stuff.

With both Williams, Lindsay, Jennifer, and Amelie all missing, and Kim and Jelena's status questionable, Indian Wells looks like a very ordinary Tier I this year.

VS Fan
Feb 17th, 2002, 02:43 AM
To Williams_rulzs:

Fields vary from tourney due to injuries, withdrawals, or just other causes.

Indian Wells as an example. Good field last year, but this year there will be no Venus, Serena, Lindsay or Jennifer. Wow, if she plays, Martina just might win a tier one this year. Actually it would be two, since she won the Addias after Serena was injured.

In general, though I agree with you that the fields of some of the smaller tourneys are comparable to the Slams in talent.

Unfortunately we must measure them by the prize money awarded to the players. Another poster suggested that the Rome tourney was ahead of Canada. I can't remember who won there, I thinkit was MoMo or Jelena. I know that it is a tier one.

disposablehero
Feb 17th, 2002, 02:48 AM
Sydney is a Tier II. Pan Pacific is a Tier I.

Ted of Teds Tennis
Feb 17th, 2002, 02:49 AM
Sydney is a Tier 2, which routinely has a stronger field than the Pilot Pen.

The Tier 1 Hingis won was the Pan Pacific.

I would agree that Filderstadt is another of the strongest Tier 2s, as are San Diego and LA.

Of course the WTA should move to make quality points more important, which would make tournaments worth more based on the strength of the field. But does anybody think the WTA has any idea what it's doing? :confused:

Williams Rulez
Feb 17th, 2002, 02:53 AM
Yup... fields vary. But usually, the difficulty of the tournment depends on the field rathe than the prize money. The purpose of increased prize money is to attract stronger players, hence a stronger fields.

Hence, I think that how big a tournament is should be measured by how strong the field is rather than by anything else.

And adidas International is very strong too, but Pilot Pen was definitely up there last year.

VS Fan
Feb 17th, 2002, 03:02 AM
Another way of looking at this is: How many matches do you have to play to win the event. In the Slams it is seven.
At Indian Wells and Miami it is six. Most other tourneys can be won with only four or five matches played. Top players with Byes can win with four matches.

The exception here is the Sanex Championships where only four matches will win, but in theory, the play is among the top 16 players in the world. In other words...no warmups.

destructo_girl
Feb 17th, 2002, 03:23 AM
Originally posted by VS Fan
OR.... Williams 6, Jen 2, Martina 0.

Any questions?Yeah....how can you count Venus and Serena together? pfft.

They've done well separately, there's no doubt.

Thats like saying, "well combined, Lindsay, Martina, Monica, Kim, Justine, Jennifer, Jelena and Amelie make up 8/10s of the top 10, while Venus and Serena only make up 2/10s."

Or, "if you put all the past and present WTA tennis players together, they have won all WTA tournaments to date."

VS Fan
Feb 17th, 2002, 03:38 AM
Well Destructo_girl:

It is just MY way of saying that.... Although Venus and Serena were NOT #1 or #2 in the rankings in the WTA, they actually DOMINATED the main events of the tour in 2001.

They did this with Venus playing ONLY twelve tournaments and Serena ONLY ten.

Most of the other top players played 20 or more.

For ranking purposes, Venus got five zeros and Serena got seven zeros, yet Venus ended the year at #3 and Serena came in at #6.

They played in the BIG events. They for the most part did well in these events.

Conclusion: They are ALREADY dominating Women's tennis, while the ranking don't reflect this YET!!! :bounce: :bounce:

CanadianBoy21
Feb 17th, 2002, 03:55 AM
Canadian Open and Rome Open are the same...secondly Indian Wells is not even going to be considered a tier 1, maybe even not tier 2, lol...

Not many top players don't like going there, wonder why, maybe because the people are incosiderable, stupid, messed up, demented bitches, :rolleyes: :D

disposablehero, you said it, with Venus, Serena, Lindsay, Jennifer, Amelie missing, and Kims and Jelanas stature uncertain, and who knows who else might get hurt by then :rolleyes: ,
Still, Martina Hingis is going to be there, so it won't be that bad for the tournament, although missing more then half of the top players :rolleyes: .
By the way, this is the BEST CHANCE for Anna to win a 'huge' tourie!! , and her first!
It's a dream come true for her I bet to see ALL the POWER PLAYERS not participating.

My prediction,
Martina Hingis against Anna Kournikova final, if the draw works out.





Woops, I went way off topic................

ANYWAYS, GO VENUS WILLIAMS
GO SERENA WILLIAMS

TeeRexx
Feb 17th, 2002, 05:01 AM
Indian Wells (IW) is a Tier I event and the 5th largest event of the year.
This event is the second largest WTA event in the U.S., last two weeks and a multi million dollar facility was built for this tourney as well.

The Ericsson is about the same level as IW, but the California is a little more favored by the WTA.

Rome used to be more popular and some wanted the event elevated to a 5th slam, but recently the event has lost some of its former prestiege.

I like ANNA, but forget about her winning a GS , Tier I or II title this year. Or next year.

But VENUS and SERNA are big game girls and they love the slams and the Tier I events, as their records show.

Look for the WILLIAMS to continue to dominate these events in 2002.

wongqks
Feb 17th, 2002, 05:15 AM
Why do some people has to do this and start the arguement?venus will most probably be no. 1 after next week, then it will be no doubts that Venus is the best in the world. By cliaming Canadian Open is bigger than the other tier one is way too subjective (I have feeling that you put it down so it can boost up Serena tally), I could have say Charleston is bigger coz it has a strong field and it is the only strong field tournament on clay other than FO

Kart
Feb 17th, 2002, 05:16 AM
Actually VS fan, I have a question ...

How many of those 'eight biggest tournaments of the year' had all four of Venus, Serena, Jennifer and Martina entered in them ?

From memory I make it 5, in which case the score would be Jen 2 & Venus 3.

Also, I don't really see how you can ignore top clay court tournaments like Rome, Berlin and Charleston all of which had top fields last year as well.

Of course, if you just wanted to illustrate that Venus and Serena are dominant players in big tournaments I completely agree.

On the point of ranking though, technically Serena only did really well in four events, three of which she won so her ranking was not as unrealistic as you make out. And Venus is going to be number one in a week's time so ...

And Superhero, Anna will probably have to get past Monica Seles to make your prediction come true so it won't be easy.

veronica
Feb 17th, 2002, 05:39 AM
And Venus is still number one in that department. JenCap is second, Davenport third and Hingis fourth.

destructo_girl
Feb 17th, 2002, 06:32 AM
Originally posted by VS Fan
Well Destructo_girl:

It is just MY way of saying that.... Although Venus and Serena were NOT #1 or #2 in the rankings in the WTA, they actually DOMINATED the main events of the tour in 2001.

They did this with Venus playing ONLY twelve tournaments and Serena ONLY ten.

Most of the other top players played 20 or more.

For ranking purposes, Venus got five zeros and Serena got seven zeros, yet Venus ended the year at #3 and Serena came in at #6.

They played in the BIG events. They for the most part did well in these events.

Conclusion: They are ALREADY dominating Women's tennis, while the ranking don't reflect this YET!!! :bounce: :bounce: Ohhhh, well why didn'tcha say so? ;)

Its best not to say things in such a roundabout way when you're dealing with people as dense as I am.

But then again, you weren't posting for my benefit, were you? :)
tsk *shaking head at self* you've done it again, girl. Jaz when I thought you couldn't get any stupider, there you go and prove me wrong.

VS Fan
Feb 17th, 2002, 06:10 PM
While I agree with other posters that really the field of players present is the BEST measure of an event's importance, this factor varys greatly due to injuries, withdrawals, and scheduleing conflicts. Sometimes the Tier two events have a better draw than tier ones. IW will look like a tier three event this year with 4 or more of the top ten missing.

The ONLY thing that can be used, therefore is PRIZE MONEY offered in the event. By it's nature it is designed to lure the TOP players. Please correct me if I am wrong about the eight events that I mentioned offering the eight highest purses. This would be ALL prize money, not just the amount awarded to the winner.

I could be wrong about this, since I am not sure of the actual amounts for each tourney. The four Slams , IW , Miami and Sanex Championships are a given. But there MAY be a tourney that pays more than the CO. If you know, let me know.

RockSteady
Feb 17th, 2002, 08:46 PM
Ok, let's do just the two-week tournaments and the Championships. Not every little tournament (no Canadian).

Australian
French
Wimbledon
US Open

Indian Wells
Ericcson
Championships

Well, the Williams sisters didn't win two of them last year. They are ALREADY zero for two this year.

Besides, with Hingis looking not as completely horrible as she looked last year, I can't envision the Williams' sisters winning three of them. Two at the most.

VS Fan
Feb 17th, 2002, 09:48 PM
Posted by RockSteady:

Ok, let's do just the two-week tournaments and the Championships. Not every little tournament (no Canadian).

Australian
French
Wimbledon
US Open

Indian Wells
Ericcson
Championships

Well, the Williams sisters didn't win two of them last year. They are ALREADY zero for two this year.

Besides, with Hingis looking not as completely horrible as she looked last year, I can't envision the Williams' sisters winning three of them. Two at the most.

-------------------------------

Well, RockSteady it seems that you have a short attention span or a poor memory.

From your list... here goes.

Winner 2001

Austrailian Open...........Jennifer Capriati
Indian Wells.................Serena Williams
Ericsson........................Venus Williams
French Open.................Jennifer Capriati
Wimbledon....................Venus Williams
US Open........................Venus Williams
Sanex Championships...Serena Williams

From your own list it is Venus 3, Serena 2 and Jennifer 2
OR Williams 5 Jennifer 2, Martina 0.

For 2002 it is currently Jennifer 1, Martina 0, Venus 0, Serena 0

Since Venus, Serena and Jennifer will not play at IW this year, they will get zeros there. Wow, what an opportunity for Martina!!
But then Kim, Justine and Monica just might be there to contest it.

Venus and Serena are ALREADY dominating women's tennis whether you like it or not and whether the media reports this or not. :bounce: :bounce:

Oh! I have to add this: Nice picture of the band, No Doubt.

Venus+Serena#1fan
Feb 17th, 2002, 11:29 PM
Actually, regarding Prize Money, attendance and field, Miami (nasdaq-100) is the 5th largest event in the world, after the 4 grand slams.

The Prize money for INDIAN WELLS is: $2,100,000
NASDAQ 100 (miami) : $2,820,000



Miami is also, so far this year the ONLY event other than a grand slam to have both williams sisters in it, pretty cool if u ask me :)