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lizchris
Jan 24th, 2004, 11:40 PM
Updated: 10:28 AM EST

Raymond Says Belief Key to Beating Williams Sisters
Staying Composed and Playing Your Best Enhance Chances, 30-Year-Old Adds
By OSSIAN SHINE, Reuters

MELBOURNE, Australia (Jan. 24) -- The Williams sisters have lost their intimidation factor and beating Venus was just a matter of belief, Lisa Raymond said after ousting the third seed at the Australian Open on Saturday.

Doubles specialist Raymond had lost all three previous matches the pair played, never winning more than a handful of games, but at Melbourne Park on Saturday she ousted the former world No. 1 6-4, 7-6 in the third round of the Grand Slam.

"I just stepped up to the plate and just believed I could win," the 30-year-old said, reflecting on a shocking victory.

"I think that was the bottom line. Just believing that I deserved to be on the court with her and believing that I was able to beat her," she said.

Venus, runner-up to sister Serena in the final here last year, had not played a tournament since losing the final of Wimbledon -- also to Serena -- last July. She had struggled with an abdominal injury for the second half of the year.

Serena is absent from the Australian Open with an injury of her own and Raymond believes that their long absences have dented their mystique.

"I think to a degree they've lost a little bit of their luster as far as (being) the Williams sisters," she said of the pair, who have won 10 of the last 20 Grand Slam tournaments.
"But at the same time you know they're gonna play well, you know they're gonna compete. You now they're hungrier, probably hungrier than ever now that they have been off the tour for so long and they want to come back and establish themselves."

Raymond said the victory ranked as one of her best.

"It is definitely up there, I couldn't ask much more of myself," the world No. 30 said.

"To finally play that way and to get a win feels good. There's a lot of difference between taking a top player to three sets and getting a win," she said.

Raymond had a supporter who knows a thing or two about winning matches -- her doubles partner Martina Navratilova, who won 167 singles titles and 173 doubles crowns.
"She sent me a text message this morning and said 'Just be brave and believe in yourself,'" Raymond said.

"You know, I thought about that out there. Having that voice in the back of my head certainly didn't hurt," she said.

Raymond will play teenage wild card Tatiana Golovin of France in the fourth round.



01/24/04 00:24 ET

Copyright 2004 Reuters Limited.


Is she still bitter about the Olympics snub?

I mean give me a break! The woman was out for six months with a abdominal injury and all of a sudden she can't play anymore since Lisa beat her? This is probably be the only victory she gets off of Venus (and it wsn't a blowout) and if history is any indication, we know what will happen.

for-sure
Jan 24th, 2004, 11:43 PM
She is right about 100% of the things she said. Why are you making a big deal about it *rolls eyes*

starr
Jan 24th, 2004, 11:46 PM
What Lisa actually said:

Q. When someone's off the tour for such a long time, does that not eliminate the fear factor or mystique, but does it lessen it?

LISA RAYMOND: I think to a degree it does. I think to a degree they've certainly lost a little bit of their luster as far as, you know, the Williams sisters.

But at the same time, you have to come -- you know they're gonna play well. You know that they're gonna compete. You know they're hungry, probably hungrier than ever now that they have been off the tour for so long, and they want to come back and establish themselves.

So, you know, I think it works a little bit both ways.

Q. The fact that she's been away for six months doesn't make her a less intimidating presence there? You have to play your very best to beat her?

LISA RAYMOND: Definitely not. Again, I think she served something like 10 or 12 [14 in reality] aces today. You're still playing Venus Williams. You're still playing Serena Williams. Whether or not they're off the tour for a month or a year, again, they're gonna come to play. They're gonna compete and they're gonna want to win.

jdog3008
Jan 24th, 2004, 11:47 PM
Venus and Serena are different people. I doubt Serena will come back so rusty. I also think most players will still be intimidated by her.

Kart
Jan 24th, 2004, 11:48 PM
What does 'luster' mean ?

I always thought it was 'lustre' meaning desire / determination as in 'lacklustre' :confused:.

Here it seems like she means it like they've lost the invincible aura around them or have I got it wrong ? :retard:

lizchris
Jan 24th, 2004, 11:48 PM
She is right about 100% of the things she said. Why are you making a big deal about it *rolls eyes*
This is the first time she has even beaten Venus and probably the last. What makes her such an expert on how to beat the Williams sisters. Kim also had the belief in late 2002. She hasn't beaten them since.

Serendy Willick
Jan 24th, 2004, 11:51 PM
The Williamses dont go by aura of other players, they go out there determined to give it all theyve got. Thats how they've gotten this far and thats how they will continue to play.

alexusjonesfan
Jan 24th, 2004, 11:55 PM
"I think to a degree they've lost a little bit of their luster as far as (being) the Williams sisters," she said of the pair, who have won 10 of the last 20 Grand Slam tournaments.
"But at the same time you know they're gonna play well, you know they're gonna compete. You now they're hungrier, probably hungrier than ever now that they have been off the tour for so long and they want to come back and establish themselves."

What's the problem with saying that? (other than the misspelling of lustre). She even complimented them right after. And the fact that they've lost their lustre is self evident in the fact that Lisa believed in her chances more yesterday than she'd in the past (you can't scare people as much when you're coming back from an extended break). :shrug:

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 24th, 2004, 11:58 PM
"lustre" means something like "shine".

Lisa was saying they no longer kind of shine with the same aura of invincibility.

"lacklustre" means "dull" or "lacking in sparkle"

lizchris
Jan 24th, 2004, 11:58 PM
What's the problem with saying that? (other than the misspelling of lustre). She even complimented them right after. And the fact that they've lost their lustre is self evident in the fact that Lisa believed in her chances more yesterday than she'd in the past (you can't scare people as much when you're coming back from an extended break). :shrug:
It is apparently that she was heavily coached too.

I wonder what she will say if Venus wins some Tier I's and a Grand Slam this year, including beating her to get the title.

Kart
Jan 24th, 2004, 11:58 PM
Thank you Leopard :).

starr
Jan 24th, 2004, 11:59 PM
What does 'luster' mean ?

I always thought it was 'lustre' meaning desire / determination as in 'lacklustre' :confused:.

Here it seems like she means it like they've lost the invincible aura around them or have I got it wrong ? :retard:
lus·ter [ lústər (/encnet/features/dictionary/Pronounce.aspx?search=luster) ]
noun (plural lus·ters)
1. soft sheen: a soft sheen of reflected light, especially from metal that has been polished gently

2. shininess: a bright and shiny condition or tone

3. splendor: the glory and magnificence of a great achievement

4. polish: polish or wax used to give something a shiny finish

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 24th, 2004, 11:59 PM
A "luster" is something a bit different. ;)

starr
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:00 AM
lack·lus·ter [ lák lųstər (/encnet/features/dictionary/Pronounce.aspx?search=lackluster) ]
adjective
lacking excitement: lacking energy, excitement, enthusiasm, or passion

Kart
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:01 AM
And thank you starr :).

starr
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:01 AM
What's the problem with saying that? (other than the misspelling of lustre). She even complimented them right after. And the fact that they've lost their lustre is self evident in the fact that Lisa believed in her chances more yesterday than she'd in the past (you can't scare people as much when you're coming back from an extended break). :shrug:
Luster is the U.S. spelling.

starr
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:02 AM
And thank you starr :).
De nada.

:)

alexusjonesfan
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:04 AM
It is apparently that she was heavily coached too.

I wonder what she will say if Venus wins some Tier I's and a Grand Slam this year, including beating her to get the title.
wait, so what part are you complaining about? That it wasn't a nice thing to say? :shrug:

alexusjonesfan
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:05 AM
Luster is the U.S. spelling.
Thanks as well ;)

starr
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:06 AM
Damm her for being heavily coached. ;)

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:09 AM
My Australian dictionary defines lacklustre as: "lacking lustre or brightness; dull." But I guess lacking excitement or energy is similar. I think the word is often used as a synonym for "mediocre".

My US dictionary gives "luster" as the preferred spelling with "lustre" as a "chiefly British" alternative spelling. Fair enough.

It defines "lackluster" as: "lacking luster, brightness or vitality; dull"

All clear? :)

jbone_0307
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:10 AM
Updated: 10:28 AM EST

Raymond Says Belief Key to Beating Williams Sisters
Staying Composed and Playing Your Best Enhance Chances, 30-Year-Old Adds
By OSSIAN SHINE, Reuters

MELBOURNE, Australia (Jan. 24) -- The Williams sisters have lost their intimidation factor and beating Venus was just a matter of belief, Lisa Raymond said after ousting the third seed at the Australian Open on Saturday.

Doubles specialist Raymond had lost all three previous matches the pair played, never winning more than a handful of games, but at Melbourne Park on Saturday she ousted the former world No. 1 6-4, 7-6 in the third round of the Grand Slam.

"I just stepped up to the plate and just believed I could win," the 30-year-old said, reflecting on a shocking victory.

"I think that was the bottom line. Just believing that I deserved to be on the court with her and believing that I was able to beat her," she said.

Venus, runner-up to sister Serena in the final here last year, had not played a tournament since losing the final of Wimbledon -- also to Serena -- last July. She had struggled with an abdominal injury for the second half of the year.

Serena is absent from the Australian Open with an injury of her own and Raymond believes that their long absences have dented their mystique.

"I think to a degree they've lost a little bit of their luster as far as (being) the Williams sisters," she said of the pair, who have won 10 of the last 20 Grand Slam tournaments.
"But at the same time you know they're gonna play well, you know they're gonna compete. You now they're hungrier, probably hungrier than ever now that they have been off the tour for so long and they want to come back and establish themselves."

Raymond said the victory ranked as one of her best.

"It is definitely up there, I couldn't ask much more of myself," the world No. 30 said.

"To finally play that way and to get a win feels good. There's a lot of difference between taking a top player to three sets and getting a win," she said.

Raymond had a supporter who knows a thing or two about winning matches -- her doubles partner Martina Navratilova, who won 167 singles titles and 173 doubles crowns.
"She sent me a text message this morning and said 'Just be brave and believe in yourself,'" Raymond said.

"You know, I thought about that out there. Having that voice in the back of my head certainly didn't hurt," she said.

Raymond will play teenage wild card Tatiana Golovin of France in the fourth round.



01/24/04 00:24 ET

Copyright 2004 Reuters Limited.


Is she still bitter about the Olympics snub?

I mean give me a break! The woman was out for six months with a abdominal injury and all of a sudden she can't play anymore since Lisa beat her? This is probably be the only victory she gets off of Venus (and it wsn't a blowout) and if history is any indication, we know what will happen.

It was a great win for Lisa, she played her best and what does the Olympic snub have to do with her press conference. She never did say Venus couldn't play anymore she said that she was rusty, as so did the commentators said too. I on the other hand dont think its rust because she beat Sharapova, Rubin, Harkleroad, and some other person convincingly. All of the players are at/above Lisa Raymonds level which is saying that Lisa believed. As far as A blowout, I consider this a blowout because Venus didn't even get a set. This will probably be her only win over her, so let her and her fans enjoy it and dont take away the fact that she beat Venus Williams.

lizchris
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:10 AM
wait, so what part are you complaining about? That it wasn't a nice thing to say? :shrug:
If this came from a current top ten player who beat Venus, that is saying something, but coming from someone who I don't think ever reached the top ten in her career it isn't saying much. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

Santorofan
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:10 AM
That article's sensational title was misleading and completely spun what Raymond actually stated when reading the whole interview - she wasn't trying to slight the Williams sisters at all. The one line Raymond stated was pumped full of false significance by the writer...that isn't what I'd call journalism as much as much as propaganda.

starr
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:11 AM
My Australian dictionary defines lacklustre as: "lacking lustre or brightness; dull." But I guess lacking excitement or energy is similar. I think the word is often used as a synonym for "mediocre".

My US dictionary gives "luster" as the preferred spelling with "lustre" as a "chiefly British" alternative spelling. Fair enough.

It defines "lackluster" as: "lacking luster, brightness or vitality; dull"

All clear? :)
Just weren't willing to take my word for it about the spelling? :lol:

I just copied out of encarta.

lizchris
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:14 AM
It was a great win for Lisa, she played her best and what does the Olympic snub have to do with her press conference. She never did say Venus couldn't play anymore she said that she was rusty, as so did the commentators said too. I on the other hand dont think its rust because she beat Sharapova, Rubin, Harkleroad, and some other person convincingly. All of the players are at/above Lisa Raymonds level which is saying that Lisa believed. As far as A blowout, I consider this a blowout because Venus didn't even get a set. This will probably be her only win over her, so let her and her fans enjoy it and dont take away the fact that she beat Venus Williams.
A blowout is 6-1, 6-1 or 6-2, 6-2. A score of 6-4, 7-6 (7-5) is hardly a blowout.

alexusjonesfan
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:14 AM
If this came from a current top ten player who beat Venus, that is saying something, but coming from someone who I don't think ever reached the top ten in her career it isn't saying much. Sorry if that sounds harsh.
You're making it seem like she she said she could hit an overhead off Venus's 2nd serve ;). I happen to agree with her that other players aren't as afraid of Serena and Venus as they were in say 2002. If you think she has no right to state this truism, then that's your opinion.

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:16 AM
No, starr, I figured you were right...and it's not like it hadn't occurred to me. It's like "center" and "centre", for example.

But it's always nice to check, especially since I had two nice big dictionaries close by. :cool:

starr
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:17 AM
So trusting.

lizchris
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:17 AM
You're making it seem like she she said she could hit an overhead off Venus's 2nd serve ;). I happen to agree with her that other players aren't as afraid of Serena and Venus as they were in say 2002. If you think she has no right to state this truism, then that's your opinion.
They never should have been afraid of them in the first place. The reason why Venus and Serena have been as sucessful as they have is that they were told by their parents that no matter how low you are ranked, you must go on the court thinking you can beat the person you are playing. If other players had that same thinking, they would be as scuessful as the sisters.

AjdeNate!
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:20 AM
It is apparently that she was heavily coached too.

I wonder what she will say if Venus wins some Tier I's and a Grand Slam this year, including beating her to get the title.
'Heavily coached' does not mean 'instantly will win no matter what'. And I can't see how "Be brave" being texted to a cellphone constitutes 'heavy coaching'.

She lost. Big deal. I think those that are the most affected are the only ones who actually believed that Venus could come back from 7 months off tour and win her first title....a Grand Slam. There were so many factors going against her. No matchplay, first event in 7 months. Let alone the big factor that she hasn't won any Slam since 2001. Those are big huge obstacles to overcome in just 13 days.

I think the hate being spewed on both sides is ridiculous. However, to take pot shots and misinterpret what Lisa says and then to categorically predict the future that Lisa will "never" beat Venus again. Isn't this the same mentality that was rampant before this 'heavily coached' match? I mean, Lisa stood no chances to beat Venus ever right? And therefore she shouldn't have right? So, since she did - she never will do it again. And therefore, Venus will win many Tier I and more Slams this year and in the future, right?

I don't see your logic at all.

Lisa was highly complimentary, as far as I'm concerned. And I'm neutral on the subject. I like them both, but am not rabidly obsessed.

And where exactly does she say *anything* about *any* Olympics, past or future? I don't see that anywhere.

I'm very tired of the whole "The world is out to get my favorite tennis player. It's a conspiracy. Pam coached her. Martina coached her. She got a text message. She shouldn't have lost. It's not fair. I'm so sad. blah blah blah" kind of mentality that is being shown around here.

Did you *really* I mean, truly deep down really, believe that she was gonna come off 7 months off and win her first event, a Grand Slam at that? I mean honestly. You can hope, which is totally cool and I appreciate that. But to believe without prejudice that Venus is the best player in the draw and she was going to beat all oncomers is just a bit of a stretch.

And this is just a random board generaliziation.... when you spew about how great your fave is and that nobody can even breathe the air they do as they are levels above everyone else, well, people take offense. It's one thing to support and encourage. It's quite another to beat down everyone who tries to cheer their fave. And after enough of this wholier than thou attitude, people take notice and reach the point where they retaliate. I'm not saying it's just or deserved... but some, make that A LOT of people on here need to recognize that they reap the attitude that they show. If you're gonna act all big ass and tough all the time and be nasty and demeaning, it's gonna come back to bite you squarely in the keister.

alexusjonesfan
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:20 AM
They never should have been afraid of them in the first place. The reason why Venus and Serena have been as sucessful as they have is that they were told by their parents that no matter how low you are ranked, you must go on the court thinking you can beat the person you are playing. If other players had that same thinking, they would be as scuessful as the sisters.
I don't even know what you're arguing about anymore. We go from one thing Lisa Raymond said to what her ranking is to Venus and Serena's parents. I better leave before Monica Seles somehow gets involved.

starr
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:22 AM
They never should have been afraid of them in the first place. The reason why Venus and Serena have been as sucessful as they have is that they were told by their parents that no matter how low you are ranked, you must go on the court thinking you can beat the person you are playing. If other players had that same thinking, they would be as scuessful as the sisters.
I agree that players shouldn't get intimidated, but it's happened as long as I've been following the women's game. Evert, Navratilova, Graf all intimidated their opponents. Shouldn't happen, but still it's more the norm.

However, I doubt that having the same mind set as you described would make other players as successfull as the sisters Williams. More than a mind set is required in order to win.

tenn_ace
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:23 AM
What does reaching top 10 have anything to do with what she said? :confused:

it's the case with every player who doesn't play for a long time... it was the case with Martina Hingis as well. Even Vera Douchevina wasn't at all intimidated by Venus and she is not even ranked in the top 100. Big girls, certainly, will not be for sure. At least, not the extent they were used to be 1 year ago. BTW, Venus lost some of that even before her injury. There were discussions here, so there is nothing new.

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:24 AM
Well, whatever. Venus and Serena have, indeed, had that "lustre" of invincibility about them in recent times, and it has doubtless helped them. It takes nothing away from them to be aware of it; it's just a fact. They only got it by being so good. Once you have it, it gives you an additional mental advantage. Tennis players are only human and of course some of them will feel overawed or nervous at times playing dominant players such as Venus and Serena.

If someone like Lisa says they have lost some of the "lustre", i.e. they are no longer so feared by the other players, that's a legitimate opinion for her to have. She may or may not be right. I don't understand why it's a big deal.

starr
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:25 AM
'Heavily coached' does not mean 'instantly will win no matter what'. And I can't see how "Be brave" being texted to a cellphone constitutes 'heavy coaching'.

She lost. Big deal. I think those that are the most affected are the only ones who actually believed that Venus could come back from 7 months off tour and win her first title....a Grand Slam. There were so many factors going against her. No matchplay, first event in 7 months. Let alone the big factor that she hasn't won any Slam since 2001. Those are big huge obstacles to overcome in just 13 days.

I think the hate being spewed on both sides is ridiculous. However, to take pot shots and misinterpret what Lisa says and then to categorically predict the future that Lisa will "never" beat Venus again. Isn't this the same mentality that was rampant before this 'heavily coached' match? I mean, Lisa stood no chances to beat Venus ever right? And therefore she shouldn't have right? So, since she did - she never will do it again. And therefore, Venus will win many Tier I and more Slams this year and in the future, right?

I don't see your logic at all.

Lisa was highly complimentary, as far as I'm concerned. And I'm neutral on the subject. I like them both, but am not rabidly obsessed.

And where exactly does she say *anything* about *any* Olympics, past or future? I don't see that anywhere.

I'm very tired of the whole "The world is out to get my favorite tennis player. It's a conspiracy. Pam coached her. Martina coached her. She got a text message. She shouldn't have lost. It's not fair. I'm so sad. blah blah blah" kind of mentality that is being shown around here.

Did you *really* I mean, truly deep down really, believe that she was gonna come off 7 months off and win her first event, a Grand Slam at that? I mean honestly. You can hope, which is totally cool and I appreciate that. But to believe without prejudice that Venus is the best player in the draw and she was going to beat all oncomers is just a bit of a stretch.

And this is just a random board generaliziation.... when you spew about how great your fave is and that nobody can even breathe the air they do as they are levels above everyone else, well, people take offense. It's one thing to support and encourage. It's quite another to beat down everyone who tries to cheer their fave. And after enough of this wholier than thou attitude, people take notice and reach the point where they retaliate. I'm not saying it's just or deserved... but some, make that A LOT of people on here need to recognize that they reap the attitude that they show. If you're gonna act all big ass and tough all the time and be nasty and demeaning, it's gonna come back to bite you squarely in the keister.
:worship:

lizchris
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:26 AM
I don't even know what you're arguing about anymore. We go from one thing Lisa Raymond said to what her ranking is to Venus and Serena's parents. I better leave before Monica Seles somehow gets involved.
I really never knew what you were talking about in the first place. I was trying to make sense of what you were trying to say, which is no easy feat, so I guess I will stop too.

alexusjonesfan
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:29 AM
I really never knew what you were talking about in the first place. I was trying to make sense of what you were trying to say, which is no easy feat, so I guess I will stop too.Thanks to your input, I will confuse the world no further with my loopy babbling.

*signs up for ESL class*

btw, liz, if you want to bitch, just say so. You don't need to go grasping at straws. :)

edit: and great post Nate :yeah:

GoDominique
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:31 AM
lizcrap, why don't you do everyone a favour and just SHUT THE FUCK UP ?

lizchris
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:37 AM
lizcrap, why don't you do everyone a favour and just SHUT THE FUCK UP ?
Why should I shut up if I am not saying anything (I am typing dumbass).

You are like herpes; you spring up at the worst time.

bandabou
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:43 AM
Great for Lisa that she finally believes she can beat a Williams, Venus in this case. Players donīt fear Venus anymore?! Fine....remember to tell them that after they lose 6-2 6-2 in 40-some minutes.

Wonder how the luster wouldīve been for Lisa if she had lost, though.

starr
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:51 AM
:rolleyes:

I'll post it again so you can read it. Lisa did not say players don't fear Venus anymore.

Q. When someone's off the tour for such a long time, does that not eliminate the fear factor or mystique, but does it lessen it?

LISA RAYMOND: I think to a degree it does. I think to a degree they've certainly lost a little bit of their luster as far as, you know, the Williams sisters.

But at the same time, you have to come -- you know they're gonna play well. You know that they're gonna compete. You know they're hungry, probably hungrier than ever now that they have been off the tour for so long, and they want to come back and establish themselves.

So, you know, I think it works a little bit both ways.

Q. The fact that she's been away for six months doesn't make her a less intimidating presence there? You have to play your very best to beat her?

LISA RAYMOND: Definitely not. Again, I think she served something like 10 or 12 [14 in reality] aces today. You're still playing Venus Williams. You're still playing Serena Williams. Whether or not they're off the tour for a month or a year, again, they're gonna come to play. They're gonna compete and they're gonna want to win.

Couver
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:51 AM
She's entitled to her opinion, and I don't think she offered it in a negative way. I'm not sure this "luster" exists. The top players win their matches on their game, no one could actually win a slam by having all seven of their opponents shaking in their boots.

I take her comment to mean that those players that were for some reason frightend to play V&S aren't any more. That has no bearing on Venus or Serena's game.

alexusjonesfan
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:56 AM
Great for Lisa that she finally believes she can beat a Williams, Venus in this case. Players donīt fear Venus anymore?! Fine....remember to tell them that after they lose 6-2 6-2 in 40-some minutes.

Wonder how the luster wouldīve been for Lisa if she had lost, though.
http://www.wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=2980426&postcount=6

No, Knizz...they havenīt caught up gamewise maybe, but they donīt FEAR her anymore. Even this Dominikovic girl was talking trash about Venus during RG. Never a good sign.

Gallofa
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:58 AM
http://www.wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=2980426&postcount=6
That's quite amazing that you could pick that up! :lol:

You guys are obssesed. Lisa won, she was nice to Venus. Venus lost, she was nice to Lisa. It's no big deal. Venus is still by far the best out of the two of them. Give it a rest.

GoDominique
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:59 AM
Dang. :lol:

VivalaSeles
Jan 25th, 2004, 01:12 AM
Very well said, Gallofa :worship:

starr
Jan 25th, 2004, 01:26 AM
http://www.wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=2980426&postcount=6
Oh my god.

:haha: :haha: :haha:

topspin
Jan 25th, 2004, 01:27 AM
She's entitled to her opinion, and I don't think she offered it in a negative way. I'm not sure this "luster" exists. The top players win their matches on their game, no one could actually win a slam by having all seven of their opponents shaking in their boots.

I take her comment to mean that those players that were for some reason frightend to play V&S aren't any more. That has no bearing on Venus or Serena's game.
Exactly!

tennischick
Jan 25th, 2004, 01:39 AM
That article's sensational title was misleading and completely spun what Raymond actually stated when reading the whole interview - she wasn't trying to slight the Williams sisters at all. The one line Raymond stated was pumped full of false significance by the writer...that isn't what I'd call journalism as much as much as propaganda.:worship: just goes to show how many people don't actually READ...;)

TennisHack
Jan 25th, 2004, 03:14 AM
Excelent post, Athenaeum :worship: I'd give you rep for it if I could -- it's always nice to see people here with more than 2 brain cells ;) -- but, alas, so few people are worthy that I have to spread it around more.

And this is just a random board generaliziation.... when you spew about how great your fave is and that nobody can even breathe the air they do as they are levels above everyone else, well, people take offense. It's one thing to support and encourage. It's quite another to beat down everyone who tries to cheer their fave. And after enough of this wholier than thou attitude, people take notice and reach the point where they retaliate. I'm not saying it's just or deserved... but some, make that A LOT of people on here need to recognize that they reap the attitude that they show. If you're gonna act all big ass and tough all the time and be nasty and demeaning, it's gonna come back to bite you squarely in the keister.
Too bad most people won't read your entire post, or the most important part here at the bottom. You hit the nail square on the head, though.

AjdeNate!
Jan 25th, 2004, 04:10 AM
Thanks THack. :wavey:

harloo
Jan 25th, 2004, 04:11 AM
You know what I was glad that she won, but I am sick and tired of these type of comments being excused by posters on this damn board. But let someone say any damn thing about their fave and all hell breaks lose.

The Williams have lost their luster? Whatever Lisa! I think she is jealous of the sisters.

And I am sick of them lumping the sisters together like they are one entity. Venus was playing, Venus lost. She will be back.:rolleyes:

DemWilliamsGulls
Jan 25th, 2004, 04:21 AM
This is the first time she has even beaten Venus and probably the last. What makes her such an expert on how to beat the Williams sisters. Kim also had the belief in late 2002. She hasn't beaten them since.

Exactly...for someone that never won a set from Venus in their long lived entire tennis career until now, Lisa needs to cool it. It would be different hearing that come from someone with a top 10 ranking that has won a few grand slams and that has been #1....but Lisa Raymond....ARE U SERIOUS?! She better watch her words because Venus will make her eat her words in a heartbeat......AND SHE WILL.

Joseosu19
Jan 25th, 2004, 05:11 AM
First of all, Lisa said they lost some of their luster, but are still feared. Its not like she said they are worse players. Second of all, all you Williams fans said all week that Venus was the top player in this tournament and the favorite and blah blah blah, so if Lisa won can't she be given some credit for beating the so-called favorite? Lisa won, period. Get over it and stop acting like anyone who doesn't worship Venus hates her. Venus will be back, but this tournament she was clearly not the best.

dreamgoddess099
Jan 25th, 2004, 05:22 AM
I fail to see how a player like Venus who has 120 plus mph first serves, the best court coverage on tour, the greatest agility ever of any women her height, and the best reach at net could ever lose any luster/lustre/lustbutt or whatever. She needs absolutely none all. With all of those assets, who the hell needs luster/luste/lustballs/lustygutsy/ or whatever the hell you call it. Venus still (and always will) shines brightly to me.

SJW
Jan 25th, 2004, 09:23 AM
*ignoring this whole thread cuz i know it's gonna be full of bitching and arguing*

i don't see anything wrong with Lisa's comments. she was respectful to them, and perfectly correct that she went out there and beat Venus because she believed she could.

good luck to her tonight :)

pigam
Jan 25th, 2004, 09:53 AM
You are like herpes; you spring up at the worst time.
Justine :eek: :confused: ;)
Come on people, stop looking for thing that arn't there. Lisa won! Let her have her moment please. She wasn't disrespectfull in any way. We all know Venus will be back.

In Flemish, 'Luster' means chandelier, so I was a tad confused when I read the thread title :lol:

tennisvideos
Jan 25th, 2004, 10:39 AM
Congratulations to Lisa, but I think that she can thank her lucky stars that she got to play Venus in her first tournament in over 6/7 months.

If Venus was match tough (not just from playing 3 rounds but more like from playing a few more tournaments in close proximity) then I think Lisa would have found it much tougher going.

I don't think that the Williams sisters have lost their lustre at all - heavens, they haven't even been playing! It is just a matter of them playing regularly for them to re-establish their places at, or near, the top again.

DemWilliamsGulls
Jan 25th, 2004, 03:16 PM
I don't think that the Williams sisters have lost their lustre at all - heavens, they haven't even been playing! It is just a matter of them playing regularly for them to re-establish their places at, or near, the top again.

Best comment I have heard on this board..in the past few days....Can u say that again please????????

Joseosu19
Jan 25th, 2004, 03:42 PM
I don't think any of us can say whether or not the Williams sisters, or Venus for that matter have lost their luster because none of us have to play them. Lisa is a player, I think she'd have a better idea than you and I.

jenny161185
Jan 25th, 2004, 03:48 PM
I dont think she was trying to say anything bad about them , just that the girls think they can challenge them more now and they have to belive they have a chance in beating them

Jericho
Jan 25th, 2004, 03:49 PM
In Flemish, 'Luster' means chandelier, so I was a tad confused when I read the thread title :lol:
:lol:

Calaer
Jan 25th, 2004, 04:04 PM
It is apparently that she was heavily coached too.

I wonder what she will say if Venus wins some Tier I's and a Grand Slam this year, including beating her to get the title.

Maybe she'd say congratulations? I'm sure Lisa expects Venus to win Tier I's and maybe a Grand Slam or more in the future.

What is wrong with you?

starr
Jan 25th, 2004, 04:30 PM
In Flemish, 'Luster' means chandelier, so I was a tad confused when I read the thread title :lol:
:lol:

BUT that actually IS one of the meanings of the English word too!!

a: a glass pendant used especially to ornament a candlestick or chandelier b : a decorative object (as a chandelier) hung with glass pendants

starr
Jan 25th, 2004, 04:32 PM
Congratulations to Lisa, but I think that she can thank her lucky stars that she got to play Venus in her first tournament in over 6/7 months.


In her press conference, she was well aware of that fact.

And her coach, Andy Brandi, said that as well. He had a quote that was something close to this: Where there is rust, there is hope.

Jakeev
Jan 25th, 2004, 09:52 PM
It is apparently that she was heavily coached too.

I wonder what she will say if Venus wins some Tier I's and a Grand Slam this year, including beating her to get the title.
I think you are wrong and a tad bit out of line. Lisa did not say anything wrong and if frankly I think she was very complimentary.

Now you see this is a typical post: Certain Williams fans just have to pick out every little thing and twist it into something that is not even there.

Talking about sour grapes this post reeks of it...........

lizchris
Jan 25th, 2004, 10:01 PM
I think you are wrong and a tad bit out of line. Lisa did not say anything wrong and if frankly I think she was very complimentary.

Now you see this is a typical post: Certain Williams fans just have to pick out every little thing and twist it into something that is not even there.

Talking about sour grapes this post reeks of it...........
I don't think I was out of line to point out something that didn't need to be said.

And, yes, am dissapointed that Venus lost to Lisa because frankly, I think Venus is a better player, but just not on that day.

Jakeev
Jan 25th, 2004, 10:05 PM
I don't think I was out of line to point out something that didn't need to be said.

And, yes, am dissapointed that Venus lost to Lisa because frankly, I think Venus is a better player, but just not on that day.
You have every right to be disappointed that Venus loss and I also agree that Venus is the better player.

But you don't have the right to pick out peccadillos that don't even exist, hence what Lisa said in her interview.

lizchris
Jan 25th, 2004, 10:16 PM
You have every right to be disappointed that Venus loss and I also agree that Venus is the better player.

But you don't have the right to pick out peccadillos that don't even exist, hence what Lisa said in her interview.
If you are going to blame someone, then you'd better blame the person who wrote the article and AOL because they are the ones who titled this artile and that's where I got it from.

Jakeev
Jan 25th, 2004, 10:25 PM
If you are going to blame someone, then you'd better blame the person who wrote the article and AOL because they are the ones who titled this artile and that's where I got it from.
Hmmm it's interesting that some of us read what Lisa REALLY said and what some of us THINK Lisa said.....

Like I said typical...............

jrm
Jan 25th, 2004, 11:12 PM
Both of williams' sister have prooven in the past that they are rusty when trying to come back at the tour though i was suprised to see Venus loosing to Raymond.

Midnite Surfer
Jan 25th, 2004, 11:26 PM
All I have to say is. It sort of seems like people are using this oppurtunity to kick Venus and Serena when they are down. They both had injuries and a personal tragedy that kept them from playing tennis. Anyone coming back from a seven month layoff will be rusty but for Lisa to use this moment as if she has really had some sort of breakthrough is ridiculous. Anyone who has watched women's tennis over the past few years would know that Lisa played played a sub par Venus.

Talk about premature condemnation. Jesus, Venus hasn't played in seven months and she made it to the third round of a major. Cut the girl some slack. Just seven months ago people were wondering if anyone besides Venus or Serena would win slams. Maybe if Venus and Serena had been playing since Wimbledon and losing tournaments that would be one thing but they have been injured. So how can you say that they have lost anything besides time.

bandabou
Jan 26th, 2004, 12:02 AM
All I have to say is. It sort of seems like people are using this oppurtunity to kick Venus and Serena when they are down. They both had injuries and a personal tragedy that kept them from playing tennis. Anyone coming back from a seven month layoff will be rusty but for Lisa to use this moment as if she has really had some sort of breakthrough is ridiculous. Anyone who has watched women's tennis over the past few years would know that Lisa played played a sub par Venus.

Talk about premature condemnation. Jesus, Venus hasn't played in seven months and she made it to the third round of a major. Cut the girl some slack. Just seven months ago people were wondering if anyone besides Venus or Serena would win slams. Maybe if Venus and Serena had been playing since Wimbledon and losing tournaments that would be one thing but they have been injured. So how can you say that they have lost anything besides time.

Great post.

GrahamD
Jan 26th, 2004, 01:51 PM
Great post.
It's gonna be a long road back for the Williams'. Better get used to the idea of losing to the likes of Lisa Raymond.

SJW
Jan 26th, 2004, 01:54 PM
^ why, have you with your girl?

Alicia Molik :cool:

bandabou
Jan 26th, 2004, 01:59 PM
It's gonna be a long road back for the Williams'. Better get used to the idea of losing to the likes of Lisa Raymond.

I hear ya, I hear ya! But is losing to Lisa worse than losing to Asagoe, Harkleroad, Mandula,etc?! :scratch:

Hmm......;) :tape:

GrahamD
Jan 26th, 2004, 02:05 PM
I hear ya, I hear ya! But is losing to Lisa worse than losing to Asagoe, Harkleroad, Mandula,etc?! :scratch:

Hmm......;) :tape:
For someone of Williams status, yes, it is just as bad, if not even more embarrassing. :o

Ballbuster
Jan 26th, 2004, 02:09 PM
Nobody lost nothing. Venus just wasn't crisp! Shit happens.

bandabou
Jan 26th, 2004, 02:16 PM
For someone of Williams status, yes, it is just as bad, if not even more embarrassing. :o

Ah...like that! I see...for a Williams just losing is emberassing, huh?!

What about Dani?! Are the standards so lowered now that you are actually o.k. when she loses?! Hmm...donīt know if this is a good thing! :o ;)

GrahamD
Jan 26th, 2004, 02:35 PM
Ah...like that! I see...for a Williams just losing is emberassing, huh?!

What about Dani?! Are the standards so lowered now that you are actually o.k. when she loses?! Hmm...donīt know if this is a good thing! :o ;)
Better get used to it pal. It's gonna be a difficult and long road back now. Other players are going to take hope from someone like Lisa beating Williams. There are going to be many more defeats before things start to get better, that's if, things do start to get better. There's no guarantee of that, no devine right.

bandabou
Jan 26th, 2004, 02:41 PM
Better get used to it pal. It's gonna be a difficult and long road back now. Other players are going to take hope from someone like Lisa beating Williams. There are going to be many more defeats before things start to get better, that's if, things do start to get better. There's no guarantee of that, no devine right.

We will see about that then, I guess. Donīt think they are gonna have a "you know who" slide though.

lizchris
Jan 26th, 2004, 03:17 PM
Better get used to it pal. It's gonna be a difficult and long road back now. Other players are going to take hope from someone like Lisa beating Williams. There are going to be many more defeats before things start to get better, that's if, things do start to get better. There's no guarantee of that, no devine right.
You must be referring to Daniela.:rolleyes:

GrahamD
Jan 26th, 2004, 03:28 PM
We will see about that then, I guess. Donīt think they are gonna have a "you know who" slide though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bandabou
....I respect every player and their fans...


:haha: :haha: :haha:

bandabou
Jan 26th, 2004, 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bandabou
....I respect every player and their fans...


:haha: :haha: :haha:

Iīm glad I was able to make your day! :wavey: :cool: :D

RAA
Jan 26th, 2004, 04:26 PM
lets just congratulate lisa and get on with it.
I admit, even though venus was rusty, I really thought she was a lock to beat lisa.
and I was wrong. I don't think that venus is invincible, but I didn't think she would lose to lisa raymond in the third round.

anyway, it didn't really seem like Lisa was really dissing venus. i think most players know she is a formidable player. whether or not a lot of other players think that they can really beat venus on any given day.. i'm not that sure about that.. but its clear that venus isn't the dominating player she once was. I don't think that is heresy for a williams fan to admit.

lizchris
Jan 26th, 2004, 04:59 PM
lets just congratulate lisa and get on with it.
I admit, even though venus was rusty, I really thought she was a lock to beat lisa.
and I was wrong. I don't think that venus is invincible, but I didn't think she would lose to lisa raymond in the third round.

anyway, it didn't really seem like Lisa was really dissing venus. i think most players know she is a formidable player. whether or not a lot of other players think that they can really beat venus on any given day.. i'm not that sure about that.. but its clear that venus isn't the dominating player she once was. I don't think that is heresy for a williams fan to admit.
That goes without saying, mainly because she was injured and the rise of her sister and the Belgians. Having said that, in the current top 50, you can count all the players who have three or more wins off of her on one or two hands and they are:

Serena
Lindsay
Maggie Maleeva
Meghann
Conchita (?)

There are not that many active female players who can boast that, including the current top two players.

AjdeNate!
Jan 26th, 2004, 05:04 PM
We're still talking about this?

Yes Venus is a great Champion.]
Yes she will be back strong.
Yes Lisa beat her and played a good match to do so.
Yes Lisa was happy to have done so.
Yes Lisa said Venus isn't as 'invicible' as before... but isn't this true? I mean as of right now with her injury time off tour, she, right now, is not the best player on tour. She may be again soon, but she's not right now.

Everything else is historical or subjective and really just a waste of time to even rehash.