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for-sure
Jan 24th, 2004, 09:34 PM
Venus giving credit to Lisa. Isn't that what a good player/person is supposed to do?
Why aren't there a million threads every time Justine/Kim or Seles gives credit to the winner?
Everyone is acting like Venus just gave her $40million Reebok contract to Lisa.

for-sure
Jan 24th, 2004, 10:03 PM
???

GoGoMaggie
Jan 24th, 2004, 10:06 PM
I think why ppl overreacted to her seemingly normal social behavior is they had expected otherwise from her.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jan 24th, 2004, 10:09 PM
:tape: if you want to look at a player who does not give credit when she loses look at jelena dokic or elena demtieva

LindsayRulez
Jan 24th, 2004, 10:16 PM
If you'll look at all of Venus's interviews this Australian Open, she has complimented every one of the players she has played, and Lisa moreso obviously because she beat her.

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 24th, 2004, 10:23 PM
It's because it's so often claimed that the Williams sisters are ungracious losers. I don't think that's ever been true of Venus. There might be some truth in it re Serena, though even Serena is usually not all that bad. (As is pointed out now and then, they are different people with different personalities.)

GoGoMaggie
Jan 25th, 2004, 05:09 AM
This is a double-standard used favorably for Venus.
When a naughty kid does something good which would be a normal thing from a normal kid and wouldn't be worth prasing, ppl still compliment the naught kid. You know what I mean?

Serendy Willick
Jan 25th, 2004, 05:18 AM
This is a double-standard used favorably for Venus.
When a naughty kid does something good which would be a normal thing from a normal kid and wouldn't be worth prasing, ppl still compliment the naught kid. You know what I mean?

And can you provide proof that Venus has been ungracious in her interviews over the years? Some quotes?:rolleyes:

Mrs. Peel
Jan 25th, 2004, 05:20 AM
The real question is.......

"WHY THE HELL DO YOU CARE?"

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

GoGoMaggie
Jan 25th, 2004, 05:24 AM
And can you provide proof that Venus has been ungracious in her interviews over the years? Some quotes?:rolleyes:
She used to rarely complment her opponents. She has changed or matured. But you can't erase the past off everyone's memory. She used to go down as arrogant just like Serena. She's been gracious quite a while now but still it feels refreshing when Venus does this which a lot of the others girls do.

Serendy Willick
Jan 25th, 2004, 05:28 AM
She used to rarely complment her opponents. She has changed or matured. But you can't erase the past off everyone's memory. She used to go down as arrogant just like Serena. She's been gracious quite a while now but still it feels refreshing when Venus does this which a lot of the others girls do.
I'd knew I'd get that lame ass response. Its the same tired ass response that people give when they dont even bother to do some reaserch and read interviews to see what the player really said. Its like Gossiping, someone throws some stupid spin on someones words or trys to stir crap up with the "she said this about you" crap instead of getting it directly from the source.:rolleyes: BTW, The Williamses have Never said anything degrading or disrespectful about any other players EVER. The same cannot be said about your "youngest queen" Martina Hingis.:rolleyes:

dreamgoddess099
Jan 25th, 2004, 05:46 AM
She used to rarely complment her opponents. She has changed or matured. But you can't erase the past off everyone's memory. She used to go down as arrogant just like Serena. She's been gracious quite a while now but still it feels refreshing when Venus does this which a lot of the others girls do.Oh, so I see, you claim Venus and Serena are arrogant because (in your opinion) they never give/gave their opponents compliments? Although they don't degrade or disrespect them either. So let me get this straight, they're not arrogant because they are degrading or disrespectful, but because they don't get out a fucking bullhorn to declaire their opponents greatness in defeat? Makes total sense. :rolleyes:

GoGoMaggie
Jan 25th, 2004, 05:55 AM
Oh, so I see, you claim Venus and Serena are arrogant because (in your opinion) they never give/gave their opponents compliments? Although they don't degrade or disrespect them either. So let me get this straight, they're not arrogant because they are degrading or disrespectful, but because they don't get out a fucking bullhorn to declaire their opponents greatness in defeat? Makes total sense. :rolleyes:
Why don't you talk more realistic? Don't go extreme about or overexaggerate or read too much into what someone said.
It's a known fact that Venus used to be known for her arrogance when she first came on the scene, you like it or not. It's got nothing to do with hate on her just in case you start another "haters bla bla" excuse. Rarely complimenting opponents doesn't mean being disrespectful or degrading but isn't respectful either. I don't know her personally so it may not be fair to her but you can't help reading and sort of believing what the media drums up. Regardless, you gotta admit she has changed. She wasn't so classy in the past. And yes ppl are making too big a deal out of her post-match interview. It's a class act yes, but not a big deal cuz a lot of others do the same more or less.

dreamgoddess099
Jan 25th, 2004, 06:58 AM
It's a known fact that Venus used to be known for her arrogance when she first came on the scene, you like it or not. Well like it or not, it's not a fact that any arrogance ever actually existed in the first place. Rarely complimenting opponents doesn't mean being disrespectful or degrading but isn't respectful either. Since when is not showing any disrespect not being respectful? She's being respectful by not showing any disrespect.
I don't know her personally so it may not be fair to her but you can't help reading and sort of believing what the media drums up. Well, if you know the media is drumming it up, then why is it so hard to not believe?

And yes ppl are making too big a deal out of her post-match interview.But it's no problem when you do in order to prove your claim that she's so arrogant. It's a class act yes, but not a big deal cuz a lot of others do the same more or less.And the same can be said about all players when it comes to supposedly showing arrogance or disrespect.

Couver
Jan 25th, 2004, 07:04 AM
Why don't you talk more realistic? Don't go extreme about or overexaggerate or read too much into what someone said.
It's a known fact that Venus used to be known for her arrogance when she first came on the scene, you like it or not. It's got nothing to do with hate on her just in case you start another "haters bla bla" excuse. Rarely complimenting opponents doesn't mean being disrespectful or degrading but isn't respectful either. I don't know her personally so it may not be fair to her but you can't help reading and sort of believing what the media drums up. Regardless, you gotta admit she has changed. She wasn't so classy in the past. And yes ppl are making too big a deal out of her post-match interview. It's a class act yes, but not a big deal cuz a lot of others do the same more or less.

I find it highly ironic that someone who has Martina Hingis in her/his signature is actually taking shots at Venus for being arrogant. :lol: :lol:

GoGoMaggie
Jan 25th, 2004, 07:28 AM
I find it highly ironic that someone who has Martina Hingis in her/his signature is actually taking shots at Venus for being arrogant. :lol: :lol:
Oh my bad.. Hingis isn't or wasn't my favorite. I just put her in my signiture for a joke. So don't take it as if she was my favorite.
Yes, Hingis was arrogant and I didn't like her just like I first didn't like the sisters. Just like the sisters, she got better and better over the years. Now that she's retired, I really don't care about her anymore. you know, she's history so not worth talking too much about.
I'm just replying to some panoid fans because they take things way out of proportion. I call them pranoid because they have lost sight of what they are talking about. They take negatively anything non-Willy fans say except when they are meant to compliment the sisters even when they are true.
I don't like Dokic for pretty much the same reason why I don't like the sisters. In a way Jelena is worse and more ungracious. I put her and Serena in the same category in terms of lack of class. But again, I don't know them personally and they have said some nice things about their opponents in the past so don't take this too far beyond the line.
As for Venus, over the years I've become more fond of her. She seems very likable as a person especially off the court. She may not be my favorite but she's going up my list every time I see or read about her. I know you don't give a crap about what I think, though. Just wanted to clear things up becuase you obviously misunderstood my sig and me itself.

GoGoMaggie
Jan 25th, 2004, 07:34 AM
Well like it or not, it's not a fact that any arrogance ever actually existed in the first place. Since when is not showing any disrespect not being respectful? She's being respectful by not showing any disrespect.
Well, if you know the media is drumming it up, then why is it so hard to not believe?

But it's no problem when you do in order to prove your claim that she's so arrogant. And the same can be said about all players when it comes to supposedly showing arrogance or disrespect.
Yeah it was stupid of me to take the media crap as seriously as I did. Maybe I was too immature then as I was still a kid. I really didn't know how the meida drumed up things then.
Anyways, Venus has been a class player for a while now and it's a well known fact that she takes her losses gracefully and is very complimentary to her opponents. So, it's not a big deal anymore when she compliments her opponent who has beaten her. Anything special is it? So, I agree with the starter of the thread that ppl are making a bit way too much out of her post match conference and if she deserves so much prasie for it then there should be a lot more threads about players' gracious press conferences. Sure, Venus is one of the biggest names so gets more attention which is understandable but why do you have to get freaked out when ppl point out the fact that you are making too much fuss about her class act when it's nothing new or speical.

~RedRose~
Jan 25th, 2004, 08:48 AM
:tape: if you want to look at a player who does not give credit when she loses look at jelena dokic or elena demtieva
I don't know about Elena but Jelena gives credit when cridet is due. I suggest ur basing this upson her interviews the last year not giving credit to her opponents when she loses. But the fact is she lost because she played shit most of the time. Jelena is one of thos people who tells it like it is, she gave credit in the matches against the players who played well but when they didnt do anything special and she lost it for herself she came right out and said it. I think its classy that unlike some players she doesnt downright tell a lie in front of heaps of press she tells it like it is. At least with her view on her matches she knows where the problem is instead of denying it saying that the other player was too good .... Jelena came out and clearly said that it was her that wasn't good enough. For instance against Conchita she said something about conchita playing the worst out of all the times shes played her and that she still lost. Ungracious? Well in Conchita's interview conchita said she didnt know how she beat jelena cause she(conchita) played shit she said it herself.

so Jelena does give credit when credit is due. Just look at the mary Pierce match .... Jelena said she hits the ball as hard as the williams sisters. Jelena just tells it like it is and if people dont like that they should probably stop living in their fantasy world where players like Alexandra Stevenson get credit from Jelena because they were able to hit a ball back into the court before Jelena could UE it.

Couver
Jan 25th, 2004, 09:20 AM
Oh my bad.. Hingis isn't or wasn't my favorite. I just put her in my signiture for a joke. So don't take it as if she was my favorite.
Yes, Hingis was arrogant and I didn't like her just like I first didn't like the sisters. Just like the sisters, she got better and better over the years. Now that she's retired, I really don't care about her anymore. you know, she's history so not worth talking too much about.
I'm just replying to some panoid fans because they take things way out of proportion. I call them pranoid because they have lost sight of what they are talking about. They take negatively anything non-Willy fans say except when they are meant to compliment the sisters even when they are true.
I don't like Dokic for pretty much the same reason why I don't like the sisters. In a way Jelena is worse and more ungracious. I put her and Serena in the same category in terms of lack of class. But again, I don't know them personally and they have said some nice things about their opponents in the past so don't take this too far beyond the line.
As for Venus, over the years I've become more fond of her. She seems very likable as a person especially off the court. She may not be my favorite but she's going up my list every time I see or read about her. I know you don't give a crap about what I think, though. Just wanted to clear things up becuase you obviously misunderstood my sig and me itself.

Actually I think you explained yourself very eloquently and I thank you for that. I just wanted to point out that many who find Venus arrogant, tend to completely ignore other players who have said far worse things IMO.

As for if you like Venus or not, that's your choice I'm not going to come in here and try and change that. You're free to like whoever you like just like anyone else.

I do try and defend my favorite players from unfair or clearly stupid attacks, but I don't jump all over everyone for not loving Venus or Serena, it's just a waste of time. On this board I learn to put things into prespective.

In fact your original signature made me laugh out loud the first time I saw it, cause it was really funny. :)

Experimentee
Jan 25th, 2004, 02:01 PM
I'd rather Venus told it like it was then just going on about how great a player Lisa is. Fact is, we all know Lisa cant beat a top 10 player unless they play bad, so why cant Venus say the real reason she lost instead of that bullshit? Everyone wants to know whether she was ok physically, or whether she had not enough matchplay, or whatever reason. Anyone could see she played far from her best and we want to know why!

GoGoMaggie
Jan 25th, 2004, 04:49 PM
I'd rather Venus told it like it was then just going on about how great a player Lisa is. Fact is, we all know Lisa cant beat a top 10 player unless they play bad, so why cant Venus say the real reason she lost instead of that bullshit? Everyone wants to know whether she was ok physically, or whether she had not enough matchplay, or whatever reason. Anyone could see she played far from her best and we want to know why!
are you blind or what?

GoGoMaggie
Jan 26th, 2004, 09:13 AM
senset = Experimentee

Jakeev
Jan 26th, 2004, 12:24 PM
I'd rather Venus told it like it was then just going on about how great a player Lisa is. Fact is, we all know Lisa cant beat a top 10 player unless they play bad, so why cant Venus say the real reason she lost instead of that bullshit? Everyone wants to know whether she was ok physically, or whether she had not enough matchplay, or whatever reason. Anyone could see she played far from her best and we want to know why!
Hmm and how was Venus playing so bad when she had 14 aces and 40 winners?

Experimentee
Jan 26th, 2004, 02:22 PM
If you've ever watched Venus play good in your life you'd know she wasnt at her best :rolleyes:
Raymond cant beat top players when they play at their best, except only in doubles. Theres a reason shes been a journeywoman all her life.

GrahamD
Jan 26th, 2004, 02:37 PM
If you've ever watched Venus play good in your life you'd know she wasnt at her best :rolleyes:
Raymond cant beat top players when they play at their best, except only in doubles. Theres a reason shes been a journeywoman all her life.
Excuses, excuses:rolleyes: How about "Well played Lisa, you played better than Venus." ? That's all that matters. Venus lost to the better player on the day, end of story.

Experimentee
Jan 26th, 2004, 02:51 PM
I know she lost to the better player on the day, but that doesnt mean she didnt play well either. Most of the time upsets happen when the top player is playing bad and the lower ranked player is playing good. Everyone knows that. Theres no harm in admitting that Venus didnt play her best.

Keith17
Jan 26th, 2004, 02:55 PM
Excuses, excuses:rolleyes: How about "Well played Lisa, you played better than Venus." ? That's all that matters. Venus lost to the better player on the day, end of story.
Don't try arguing that point with the Williams' "fans".

To the point of this thread, I think it's because people have the perception that the Williams' are bitches when they lose... but to be fair, Venus is almost always classy.

It's Serena who causes this perception. For example, her moronic comments after her loss at RG 2003.

Experimentee
Jan 26th, 2004, 03:10 PM
It's Serena who causes this perception. For example, her moronic comments after her loss at RG 2003.

She said Justine played well and deserved the win. What more do you want her to say?
Seriously, I think the Williams haters just make up things they supposedly said, while other players say worse things and get away with it. To give a recent example, Sharapova said after she lost to Myskina the 3rd set was just all about her unforced errors, yet no one thinks shes a bitch. I dont either, shes just telling it like it is, but if it was Serena who said that, everyone would be going on about what a bitch she is.

asheboro
Jan 26th, 2004, 04:08 PM
Don't try arguing that point with the Williams' "fans".

To the point of this thread, I think it's because people have the perception that the Williams' are bitches when they lose... but to be fair, Venus is almost always classy.

It's Serena who causes this perception. For example, her moronic comments after her loss at RG 2003.

And those comments were true. All the tV viewers witness it on that day so don't even try it.

Keith17
Jan 26th, 2004, 04:09 PM
And those comments were true. All the tV viewers witness it on that day so don't even try it.
"I've fought all my life... I'll have to keep fighting"

Put that in comparison with her opponent...