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View Full Version : Conspiracy Against Venus? Matthew Cronin thinks so


tennisIlove09
Jan 24th, 2004, 07:20 PM
Matthew Cronin's assessment! Draw your own conclusions.

http://********************/hot_aod7.html (http://********************/hot_aod7.html)

FAMED AND FLAMED : If we had been writing our Famed/Flamed column during the entirety of her 10-year career, the now 30-year-old Lisa Raymond would have made the Flamed category countless times in singles, and only would have entered the Famed category in doubles and during the first couple of years of her pro playing life.

While watching Raymond dismantle Venus Williams 6-4, 7-6 (5) on Saturday, we kept waiting for the creative all-courter to gag, as she has down so many times at the Slams in big matches. Lisa has always had the tools to be a top-five player, but has never really believed that she belonged there. She’d get into a tight match against an elite player and all of a sudden, would start to think that she couldn’t sustain a high level. Errors would creep into her game, she’d get tentative, her chin would sink slowly into her chest and poof, she out of the tournament before the final weekend.

Raymond has always been a very respectable competitor at smaller tournaments where the stakes aren’t so high, but given that she has some of the best hands in the business, is a tremendous volleyer, a fine mover and has a true weapon of the forehand, she should have racked up at least 30 singles titles by now.

But so much of winning and losing is based on self-belief at crunch time. Even though Venus played an average match on Saturday, she did make Raymond come up with the goods. Raymond finally did, forcing the action at net, matching Williams forehand for forehand and mixing up her first serves beautifully. Now if she can bring that same style into her match against Tatiana Golovin, Raymond could be a serious contender for the big prize.

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but it sure seemed like ESPN commentators Pam Shriver and Mary Joe Fernandez knew exactly what type of strategy Raymond was going to employ against Venus. Their comments during the match weren’t just run of the mill insights, they were they type of thoughts that led me to believe that at least Shriver was part of pre-match conversations that Martina Navratilova and/or Raymond’s college coach) Andy Brandi had with Raymond as to how to beat Venus. If that did happen, at least say you were part of the discussion.

Freewoman33
Jan 24th, 2004, 07:35 PM
I think it was entirely possible that they did coach Lisa on how to play Venus, but tell someone what to do and that person actually executing what was told are two different things.

I didn't see the entire match, but from the little that I saw, Lisa played an excellent match. Venus' performance was really poor, she got tight in the tiebreak. She makes no excuses because there are none other than she didn't have a strategy and she lost her confidence during that match. In essence, conspiracy or not, Venus lost a match she should've won.

To hell with Mary-Joe, Pam, Martina N. and whoever else. They'll never like Venus because doesn't act fake with them. She knows that they're bias against her that's why she wouldn't give them the time of the day.

Keith17
Jan 24th, 2004, 07:36 PM
The whole tour hates Venus. They all want her to lose. The whole board hates Venus. We all want her to lose. Everyone is racist. We get it.

DelMonte
Jan 24th, 2004, 07:42 PM
The whole tour hates Venus. They all want her to lose. The whole board hates Venus. We all want her to lose. Everyone is racist. We get it.

Keith, where are you from? Is that the flag of Vanuatu next to your name?

Curious, DelMonte.

moon
Jan 24th, 2004, 07:43 PM
The whole tour hates Venus. They all want her to lose. The whole board hates Venus. We all want her to lose. Everyone is racist. We get it.
No everyone is not racist. But you're an ass. I get that. :p

JustineTime
Jan 24th, 2004, 07:50 PM
MJF said right on air that she had spoken with Lisa's coach, and didn't try to hide the fact that she knew what her strategy would be. If it was a conspiracy, it certainly wasn't secret! :rolleyes:

Serendy Willick
Jan 24th, 2004, 07:50 PM
Its quite obvious that Pam Shriver is biased, and two-faced (check her redicoulous article on the match) and needs to decide between amateaur coaching or commentating (There is a difference). Nonetheless, Congratulations to Lisa. Venus will come back strong next tournement.

Serendy Willick
Jan 24th, 2004, 07:52 PM
MJF said right on air that she had spoken with Lisa's coach, and didn't try to hide the fact that she knew what her strategy would be. If it was a conspiracy, it certainly wasn't secret! :rolleyes:
Why in the fuck should you care, why dont you go root for the cheater?:rolleyes:

Keith17
Jan 24th, 2004, 07:54 PM
MJF said right on air that she had spoken with Lisa's coach, and didn't try to hide the fact that she knew what her strategy would be. If it was a conspiracy, it certainly wasn't secret! :rolleyes:
They do that for many matches.

I remember that Pam spoke vividly with Elena Bovina's coach about Bovina's strategy against Davenport in Indian Wells. It sure didn't help her much.

No everyone is not racist. But you're an ass. I get that.

Agreeing with idiotic "writers" who think this match was a conspiracy if being more of an "ass", in my humble opinion.

tennischick
Jan 24th, 2004, 08:17 PM
i'm sure that Venus' coach gave her suggestions on how to beat Lisa.

nothing changes the fact that Lisa went out there and did what she had to do. Venus always had the option of changing up her game. like hitting a few lobs for example.

JustineTime
Jan 24th, 2004, 08:20 PM
Why in the ****should you care, why dont you go root for the cheater?:rolleyes:
OK. Have a nice day! :)

Serendy Willick
Jan 24th, 2004, 08:30 PM
OK. Have a nice day! :)
You too:rolleyes:

Kart
Jan 24th, 2004, 08:39 PM
What difference does it make if Pam Shriver and anyone else was in on the game plan ?

Lisa still had to deliver it herself.

Crazy_Fool
Jan 24th, 2004, 08:42 PM
Exaclty, its tactics, big deal. You still have to be good enough to actually perform.

Serendy Willick
Jan 24th, 2004, 08:45 PM
Exaclty, its tactics, big deal. You still have to be good enough to actually perform.

Good than I dont wanna hear your mouth when if she pulls the same crap with your beloved cheater.

WF4EVER
Jan 24th, 2004, 08:47 PM
Why is Raymond suddently so overrated? I don't recall in the past that people were saying she's top 5 talent and that she should have won at least 30 titles.
I couldn't agree with you more, Andy. After reading that article I really had to wonder if having beaten Venus makes Lisa the new GTH (great tennis hope). I mean, come on; it was one match. She played a good match and Venus played a bad one and she won. Kudos to her, but why is everyone getting carried away. There is nothing wrong with celebrating Lisa's breakthrough in this match but have we also handed her the title or worse, total Venus domination?

Meghan Shaughnessy is said to be another potentially good player who has beaten Venus twice and nothing else. If Lisa wins the title that would be great but I'd be more concerned if she beat Venus again.

No wonder women's tennis suffers so in the absence of the sisters because everyone thinks they're the end-all of tennis. Some of us need to realize that they really aren't.

Geez.

irma
Jan 24th, 2004, 08:53 PM
I might be dumb
but why is having the right plan forbidden or conspiracy?

she had to play like she always did and lose for the 4th time because it's forbidden to beat venus?

starr
Jan 24th, 2004, 08:55 PM
i'm sure that Venus' coach gave her suggestions on how to beat Lisa.

nothing changes the fact that Lisa went out there and did what she had to do. Venus always had the option of changing up her game. like hitting a few lobs for example.
I'm pretty sure that Venus doesn't have that option.

Is there anyone who has seen her lob?

Crazy_Fool
Jan 24th, 2004, 08:59 PM
Good than I dont wanna hear your mouth when if she pulls the same crap with your beloved cheater.
Grow up hater. If someone gives u tactics then u use them, big deal, u still have to be good enough.

starr
Jan 24th, 2004, 09:01 PM
I don't think it was any secret to anyone about the kind of game Lisa needed to play to beat Venus.

A bunch of people, former players and coaches, sat down with Arthur Ashe and helped him create a game plan to beat Jimmy Connors at Wimbledon. He wrote it down and stuck it in his sock. I don't think there was some sort of conspiracy. People liked Ashe and wanted him to win.

I also don't think it is much of a secret in the inner circles of tennis what sort of game gives Venus trouble. So, it's not like someone gave out the secret to the A-Bomb. Lisa's coach has been around for a long long time. I think he probably has more tennis knowledge than Shriver and Fernandez combined.

irma
Jan 24th, 2004, 09:04 PM
yeah happened before the final in wim 93 too. worked from 3:5 0:30 till 6:7 6:1 4:1 40:30

fact is though the winner passed out afterwards and was not at the ball

there you have your conspirary;) (j/k)

Amanda
Jan 24th, 2004, 09:11 PM
DUH!!!! Venus lost a tennis match. Good grief. Lisa played exceptional tennis. What's the big deal? Why all the fuss? According to many, Venus wasn't expected to preform well because of her time off.....just another way for the haters to think they've achieved something grand. LOL!!!

It doesn't matter who knew about any type of "plan" for Lisa to beat Venus....they both played a match and Lisa played better. NEXT!!!!!!

faboozadoo15
Jan 24th, 2004, 09:12 PM
some ppl are so blind
do u honestly think raymonds coach is a complete moron and just takes 2nd hand advice. hes been watching venus for years, and this time he got lisa to do the right thing.

most of the time players' coaches talk to the commentators before their matches so that they have something to talk about during the match. more than likely, raymonds coach already had a gameplan and he just talked to pam and mary joe about it... can you even imagine the conversation among them--
pam-- "you do know that the forehand is the weak side, right?"
andy-- "duh."
mary joe-- "so that means when it's a big point, lisa should hit to the forehand... are YOU getting this????!!!"
andy--"uh yea, sure."
pam--"and also, the second serve, it's not good."
andy--"yes, i know this al--"
pam--"and it slices, which takes it to lisa's forehand... that means she can hit aggressively!!!!"
mary jou--"oh my God pam, you're a genius!!! don't you agree, andy."
andy--"uhh yes, sure. thanks for that invaluable information."
pam--"what woulkd he have done without us???"

TheBoiledEgg
Jan 24th, 2004, 09:20 PM
omg at this thread :lol: :haha:

Matt Cronin said nothing of the sort.

if it was that easy........ Pam Shriver would have won some slams herself.

Serendy Willick
Jan 24th, 2004, 09:20 PM
Grow up hater. If someone gives u tactics then u use them, big deal, u still have to be good enough.
Yawn, it still doesnt change the fact that shes a cheater and that Pam Shiver is biased.:rolleyes:

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 24th, 2004, 09:28 PM
Nice journalistic try to put some spin on things. :zzz:

harloo
Jan 24th, 2004, 10:11 PM
Damn, it was like ole Pammy had won the fucking lottery when Venus lost. Nav was so elated, like their own personal experimental coaching of Lisa worked.

The writer is correct. Pam and Nav were involved in Lisa's approach to beating Venus. However, I think Lisa just played the match of her life, while Venus had one of those bad bad days.

I doubt Lisa will win the title, it's just not going to happen. But she had her moment to shine, and that's good. She finally beat Venus after 7 or eight tries.

The excitement over Venus's lost from the commentators was very telling of their attitude towards the sisters. If it were Jenny, or Lindsay losing they would not of been celebrating like they were at a New Years Party. LOL

But that's ok. Venus will be back in action soon enough, and match tough unlike at this tournament.:)

Diya
Jan 24th, 2004, 10:13 PM
:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

harloo
Jan 24th, 2004, 10:15 PM
After 3 tries you mean?
Thanks for the correction. Now why don't you and Diya run off into the sunset.:lol:

Sam L
Jan 24th, 2004, 10:16 PM
Ugh.. I'm not doubting/confirming this happened. But you can't change a player from a loser to a winner with some advice. If that were the case..... :shrug:

Look Venus will be back, articles like these are just non-sense.

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 24th, 2004, 10:25 PM
Exactly, Sam L. The thing is, Navratilova at least may well have given her some advice (quite rightly, too, since they are doubles partners and presumably friendly and all), and very likely told Shriver what it was, to give her some insight into how Lisa would play. However it would have been out of line for them to boast about it on TV. Cronin has an odd sense of how these things work.

Then again, as others have said, maybe it is just obvious to someone like Navratilova how you should play Venus if you have the physical ability to do so, and she and Pam picked up on what Lisa was doing.

As others have said, Lisa still had to go out there and execute any game plan that she'd worked out with her coach, her doubles partner, or anyone else. Same as Venus had to execute her own game plan that she'd worked out with or without assistance from the people around her.

Sam L
Jan 24th, 2004, 10:28 PM
Exactly, Sam L. The thing is, Navratilova at least may well have given her some advice (quite rightly, too, since they are doubles partners and presumably friendly and all), and very likely told Shriver what it was, to give her some insight into how Lisa would play. However it would have been out of line for them to boast about it on TV. Cronin has an odd sense of how these things work.

Then again, as others have said, maybe it is just obvious to someone like Navratilova how you should play Venus if you have the physical ability to do so, and she and Pam picked up on what Lisa was doing.

As others have said, Lisa still had to go out there and execute any game plan that she'd worked out with her coach, her doubles partner, or anyone else. Same as Venus had to execute her own game plan that she'd worked out with or without assistance from the people around her.
Martina Hingis I think in the 98 French Open advised the girl that played Venus before her how to beat Venus. And I think she made that clear in an interview or something. I don't know. I just don't see anything wrong with this. But not that I don't think it helps anyway. Venus won that day.

Serendy Willick
Jan 24th, 2004, 10:33 PM
When you are a Commentator your job is to be fair, objective and to shut up during points. Pam Shriver has proven to me to be the fakest, most unobjective person out. If you wanna exhchange tactics, etc Than be a fucking coach. She pulled this same stunt at the Capriati-Serena match at the Nasdaq100 while doing courtside commentating.

Serendy Willick
Jan 24th, 2004, 10:39 PM
Where is it written that a commentator has to be totally objective? Everyone on this planet has bias so hearing a totally objective commentator is never going to happen.
Than there shouldnt be fucking commentating at all then.

bandabou
Jan 24th, 2004, 10:44 PM
It´s cool....at the end of the day: If Venus had played her normal game NO MATTER what advice they´d have given to Lisa, wouldn´t have helped her beat Venus.*

Just one of those off-days for Venus. No need for any conspiracy. The commentators don´t like Venus and/or Serena?! It´s their right...tennis-matches aren´t won in the booth.

JustineTime
Jan 24th, 2004, 10:52 PM
Yawn, it still doesnt change the fact that shes a cheater and that Pam Shiver is biased.:rolleyes:
Um, were you aware that Justine beat Kim 6-0,6-4 in the final of the French Open last year?

Just checking. :)

Fingon
Jan 24th, 2004, 10:53 PM
Why is Raymond suddently so overrated? I don't recall in the past that people were saying she's top 5 talent and that she should have won at least 30 titles.
Lisa is a very good player, she has always been, it's true that her mind has always been the problem, and she could have possibly sneaked in the top 5 for a little while (if you think what player have been there), but I don't think she could have won 30 titles.

Anyways, the author of this article is obviously an idiot and since Venus, Serena, Capriati, Hingis and Anna are not playing and the men's tournament is being Roddick, Agassi and Federer assassinating their opponents, he has to find something to talk about.

It's obvious that playing with Navratilova has helped Lisa, I am sure Navratilova gave her valuable advice, as she does with all her doubles partners, all of them seem to improve their singles performance, wonder why.

So, it's now a conspiraracy to give a player advice on how to beat another player :rolleyes: I gues when Navratilova gave Kuznetsova advice on how to play Justine she was a Belgian hater :confused:

what really pisses me off is that those morons get actually paid to speak rubbish :fiery: it's seems that mediocrity is a requirement to be a tennis journalist.

Mrs. Peel
Jan 24th, 2004, 10:56 PM
The whole tour hates Venus. They all want her to lose. The whole board hates Venus. We all want her to lose. Everyone is racist. We get it.
Why did you bring up race? :confused:

Serendy Willick
Jan 24th, 2004, 10:56 PM
Lisa is a very good player, she has always been, it's true that her mind has always been the problem, and she could have possibly sneaked in the top 5 for a little while (if you think what player have been there), but I don't think she could have won 30 titles.

Anyways, the author of this article is obviously an idiot and since Venus, Serena, Capriati, Hingis and Anna are not playing and the men's tournament is being Roddick, Agassi and Federer assassinating their opponents, he has to find something to talk about.

It's obvious that playing with Navratilova has helped Lisa, I am sure Navratilova gave her valuable advice, as she does with all her doubles partners, all of them seem to improve their singles performance, wonder why.

So, it's now a conspiraracy to give a player advice on how to beat another player :rolleyes: I gues when Navratilova gave Kuznetsova advice on how to play Justine she was a Belgian hater :confused:

what really pisses me off is that those morons get actually paid to speak rubbish :fiery: it's seems that mediocrity is a requirement to be a tennis journalist.
I could care less if Navritolova taught her a class. This has to do with the Commentators lack of objectivity.

JustineTime
Jan 24th, 2004, 10:56 PM
it's seems that mediocrity is a requirement to be a tennis journalist.
ANY kind of journalist! :)

Dawn Marie
Jan 24th, 2004, 11:23 PM
Pam and Martina are Bias and are against The Williams sisters.

Imho they are racist, and ignorant. They would not have acted that way if it were Lindsay or Jen who lost.

Yet, Lisa will never win this OZ Open nor will she win the doubles so Pam and Martina's coaching will be all for naught. Besides Martina doesn't give a damn about Lisa she is just using her to play the Olympics. Which they will only lose in.

I just think the whole ESPN network is racist against the sisters, and they need to fire Pam because she is not professional in her job.


This is why Vee will not talk to Pam and MJF anymore. She knows they are bias and against her because she is a strong black women who has done things that none of them NEVER EVER WILL ACHIEVE.

In short I feel sorry for Pam and Martina and MJF.

Couver
Jan 24th, 2004, 11:31 PM
Well, I know Pam and Mary Jo don't really care for Venus and Serena. But this suggestion is just to silly.

So what if they told her what to do? It's not like they came on court and it was Venus VS Lisa, Pam, and Martina LOL. Lisa had to execute her game plan and she did. I doubt Venus cares who gave Lisa what advice. She played and match and lost so...

I can't believe this writer would suggest such a thing, and the stupid thing is even if they did do that, it's not illegal. It's not like Serena giving Lisa advice on how to beat Venus :rolleyes:

barmaid
Jan 24th, 2004, 11:32 PM
Cronin's implication of "conspiracy" is unfounded and ridiculous:devil: . I have seen a transcript of Martina Hingis's commentating on the match and she remarked how cleverly Lisa was keeping her groundstrokes long and in so doing kept Venus tied to the baseline and therefore preventing her from "pounding" her famous short groundstrokes for winners. Lisa has the experience....Cronin has accurately described her "talents" and her lack of winning the "big ones" up to this point. Both Martina and Pam and Mary Jo agreed that without Venus's many UFE's Lisa would not have won...Martina for instance remarked how Lisa played "smart" tennis by introducing her variety of shots...you can get all the advice in the world about "how" to play an opponent..that's what coaches are for......but without execution it won't be successful! Give credit where credit is due, Lisa made it happen!:D Unfortunately her role as "giant" killer didn't last long...she and Navra went down to defeat a few hours later against Davenport and Corina..:eek: Ah! fame...such a "fleeting" thing!!:worship:




barmaid:wavey:

Fingon
Jan 24th, 2004, 11:40 PM
I could care less if Navritolova taught her a class. This has to do with the Commentators lack of objectivity.
yes but I fail to see how Pam being biased against Venus or knowing was Lisa was going to do was a conspiracy.

Next we will hear is that they asked Jack Bauer to protect Venus against Mickey Mouse.

asheboro
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:29 AM
I sure hope pam's child is born health. You know god don't like ugly.

starr
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:34 AM
I hope your age equals your number of posts because that post was a very poor one if you are any older.

tenn_ace
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:35 AM
speechless.... the whole "everyone is against willaimses" craziness becomes more and more pathetic... :haha:

Nan Cu
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:46 AM
What's the conspiracy (sp). I happend to find Pam Shriver very honest and not tow-faced, unlike Mary Joe. Remember, she was Venus's mentor when she started out on the tour.

For those who saw the match, it was clear that Venus played like crap. How many times didn't she gain momentum only to follow it up with ridiculous errors. Even she didn't know what was going on. It seemed like some outside force had taken over.

Oracene is a jinx. Mark my words.

starr
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:48 AM
I think Oracene is taking a bad rap.

Nan Cu
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:52 AM
Really? Then answer this.

How many slams has Oracene "coached" Venus into winning?

starr
Jan 25th, 2004, 12:59 AM
It was the "jinx" I was referring to.

And I don't know if Oracene even actually ever coaches at all.

I don't think it is her fault Venus has difficulty winning on Rebound Ace and Clay.

Fingon
Jan 25th, 2004, 01:03 AM
I sure hope pam's child is born health. You know god don't like ugly.
I sure hope you meant healthy and not what I thought the first time I read it.

Nan Cu
Jan 25th, 2004, 01:03 AM
And I don't know if Oracene even actually ever coaches at all.
This is why she's a jinx.

K-Dog
Jan 25th, 2004, 01:38 AM
Why did Pam Shriver have a talk before Kim vs. Serena at the Oz last year? Pam even mentioned it on the air that she and Kim had a conversation prior to the match. She talked a few things over with Kim on how to beat Serena. Also, when Chris Fowler and Pam interviewed Lisa, how come the first question asked by Pam was "Where does every second serve go?" Lisa responded "the forehand" like she had realized what Pam told told her before the match was true.

tennischick
Jan 25th, 2004, 01:52 AM
I'm pretty sure that Venus doesn't have that option.

Is there anyone who has seen her lob?OK my point was missed. i meant to say that she had the option to TRY to lob. she never even TRIED, even tho' it was an obvious response. granted that the middle of a game is not the ideal time to try new strokes but tennis players do it all the time. even a horrific lob would have been better than none at all.

i am soooooo missing Serena!!!!!

Nan Cu
Jan 25th, 2004, 01:52 AM
This still doesn't make Pam a bad person. What she did, imo, was for the betterment of womens tennis.

Alan
Jan 25th, 2004, 02:03 AM
WHATEVER!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Greenout
Jan 25th, 2004, 02:28 AM
The Aussie commentators said Martina N...gave her advice.
You can have all the advice in the world; but if you choke or can't
get it done it's useless.

She had advice;but is it some kind of secret having a strategy in
playing Venus? How many matches and videos do you think are
really available world wide? :lol:

Lisa and Martina were crap against Lindsay/Corina in Dubs later
on in the early evenings..so make of that what you will?

Lisa is no Patty? She's not going anywhere near the SF's, believe me.
Still congrats on the greatest victory of her career.

Ted of Teds Tennis
Jan 25th, 2004, 03:30 AM
What difference does it make if Pam Shriver and anyone else was in on the game plan ?

Lisa still had to deliver it herself.

Apparently there are some haters here who can't stomach the fact that their particular fave (in this case, Venus) lost fair and square. :rolleyes:

VenusSerenaBlvd.
Jan 25th, 2004, 03:40 AM
Everyone knows the weaknesses of Venus, it just takes the unfortunate day or bad luck that someone does a good job of doing so. I am soooo bitter and depressed after Venus' loss, but us fans have to get mad at someone soooo...To hell with Pam, Mary Joe, and Mary, and Martina. Wish I would run into them when I am PMSing, cuz I would curse them out to the high heavens. Vee, my girl...I will always be in your corner and yes if y'all haven't heard it enough: Venus will Rise!!

CapFan#1
Jan 26th, 2004, 06:38 PM
Pam and Martina are Bias and are against The Williams sisters.

Imho they are racist, and ignorant. They would not have acted that way if it were Lindsay or Jen who lost.

Yet, Lisa will never win this OZ Open nor will she win the doubles so Pam and Martina's coaching will be all for naught. Besides Martina doesn't give a damn about Lisa she is just using her to play the Olympics. Which they will only lose in.

I just think the whole ESPN network is racist against the sisters, and they need to fire Pam because she is not professional in her job.


This is why Vee will not talk to Pam and MJF anymore. She knows they are bias and against her because she is a strong black women who has done things that none of them NEVER EVER WILL ACHIEVE.

In short I feel sorry for Pam and Martina and MJF.


This is the sadest, most immature, pathetic post I have ever seen..... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

PLEASE...... This whole notion of conspiracy is RIDICULOUS! MJ and Pam's job is to get the scoop from the players and their coaches about their matches. If they talked to Lisa's coach and he told them what Lisa was going to try to do, THEY DID THEIR JOB!!!

And to slam someone's doubles partner for giving them advice on how to play someone is STUPID....

I feel bad for Venus... sucks to come back after so long off and go out in the 3rd round..... hope she picks her game up. She really needs to work on those weaknesses in her game if she's gonna be #1 again... BUT GIVE LISA HER DUE CREDIT FOR PLAYING A SMART GAME! :fiery:

asheboro
Jan 26th, 2004, 06:58 PM
This is the sadest, most immature, pathetic post I have ever seen..... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

PLEASE...... This whole notion of conspiracy is RIDICULOUS! MJ and Pam's job is to get the scoop from the players and their coaches about their matches. If they talked to Lisa's coach and he told them what Lisa was going to try to do, THEY DID THEIR JOB!!!

And to slam someone's doubles partner for giving them advice on how to play someone is STUPID....

I feel bad for Venus... sucks to come back after so long off and go out in the 3rd round..... hope she picks her game up. She really needs to work on those weaknesses in her game if she's gonna be #1 again... BUT GIVE LISA HER DUE CREDIT FOR PLAYING A SMART GAME! :fiery:

Mary Jo and pam's job is to commentate. We all know that mary jo, pam, martina N, and carrilo are all jealous of Vee and Serena because of their wealth, fame and success in tennis. They hate to know that those two lovely young ladies did and achieve 10x more than they will ever achieve. I am still wondering if they will tell lisa how to beat Kim and Justine.

asheboro
Jan 26th, 2004, 06:59 PM
This is the sadest, most immature, pathetic post I have ever seen..... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

PLEASE...... This whole notion of conspiracy is RIDICULOUS! MJ and Pam's job is to get the scoop from the players and their coaches about their matches. If they talked to Lisa's coach and he told them what Lisa was going to try to do, THEY DID THEIR JOB!!!

And to slam someone's doubles partner for giving them advice on how to play someone is STUPID....

I feel bad for Venus... sucks to come back after so long off and go out in the 3rd round..... hope she picks her game up. She really needs to work on those weaknesses in her game if she's gonna be #1 again... BUT GIVE LISA HER DUE CREDIT FOR PLAYING A SMART GAME! :fiery:

No give Lisa credit for Venus having an off day. She sure took advantage of a rusty, vulnerable Venus and I sure can't blame her for that. now she should win the whole thing.

The Crow
Jan 26th, 2004, 07:10 PM
One of those truely hilarious threads again :lol:

Keith17
Jan 26th, 2004, 07:23 PM
Why did you bring up race? :confused:
Look at every time someone goes against the Williams'. Some idiot always plays the race card... and it happened again.

Williams' fans should seriously denounce Dawn Marie.

Ballbuster
Jan 26th, 2004, 07:26 PM
I thought she was getting coached during the match. She kept looking up at her coach.

Darran
Jan 26th, 2004, 07:27 PM
Mary Jo and pam's job is to commentate. We all know that mary jo, pam, martina N, and carrilo are all jealous of Vee and Serena because of their wealth, fame and success in tennis. They hate to know that those two lovely young ladies did and achieve 10x more than they will ever achieve. I am still wondering if they will tell lisa how to beat Kim and Justine.

I'm assuming you are either a little deluded or just botter inside to say that Martina Navratilova has achieved 10 times less than either of the Williams.



As for the opinion that Pam & MJF somehow helped Lisa beat Venus is ridiculous, firstly, I'm sure whatever they could have told her she already knew already, and if somehow they did come up with an alternative gmae plan to the one her coach told her, then surely that would just f*** with her mind. Having several people telling you several different strategies aint gonna help in the slightest.

kosmikgroove
Jan 26th, 2004, 07:30 PM
this is the most asinine thread ever.

what the hell kind of conspiracy is there in receiving coaching tips? it's ultimatley 2 players on court. and if there really was a conspiracy why would they coach someone like raymond when they could give all their "deceitful tips" to someone like kim or justine who have a better possibility of pulling off a win?

this board keeps getting sillier and sillier. it's like reading the national enquirer of sports.

Hendouble
Jan 26th, 2004, 07:49 PM
Pam and Martina are Bias and are against The Williams sisters.

Imho they are racist, and ignorant. They would not have acted that way if it were Lindsay or Jen who lost.

Yet, Lisa will never win this OZ Open nor will she win the doubles so Pam and Martina's coaching will be all for naught. Besides Martina doesn't give a damn about Lisa she is just using her to play the Olympics. Which they will only lose in.

I just think the whole ESPN network is racist against the sisters, and they need to fire Pam because she is not professional in her job.


This is why Vee will not talk to Pam and MJF anymore. She knows they are bias and against her because she is a strong black women who has done things that none of them NEVER EVER WILL ACHIEVE.

In short I feel sorry for Pam and Martina and MJF.
:haha: :haha: :rolls: :rolls: Classic, just classic, it really is. You can't make 'em up.

:hug: Pammy and Mary Joe.

Hurley
Jan 26th, 2004, 07:54 PM
Pam and Martina are Bias and are against The Williams sisters.

BIASED!

BIASED!!

BIASED!!!!!!!

BIAS IS A NOUN

OH MY GOD
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAA

faboozadoo15
Jan 26th, 2004, 08:01 PM
BIASED!

BIASED!!

BIASED!!!!!!!

BIAS IS A NOUN

OH MY GOD
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAA

thank you for attempting to eradicate this impediment once again... it really bothers me sometimes, as well.