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Sam L
Jan 6th, 2004, 05:46 AM
Teens pick the best bodies
By Alexa Baracaia, Evening Standard
5 January 2004

Nine out of ten British teenage girls are unhappy with their bodies - and believe thinner girls have more friends, it emerged today. A new study shows that, despite the best efforts of health professionals, young women are more obsessed than ever with losing weight and are convinced that being thin is the key to being happy and popular.

They consider Britney Spears has the best female body, but the perfect woman is a combination of Rachel Stevens (face), Christina Aguilera (breasts and stomach), Beyonce (legs), J-Lo (bottom) and Britney (arms).

A quarter of 14-year-old girls say they have "considered having plastic surgery" or taking diet pills to achieve an 'ideal' waiflikephysique.

And despite the rise of larger stars, including Kelly Osbourne, Pink and Pop Idol winner Michelle McManus, most teenage girls view such celebrities as having the "worst" kind of female body.

Despite the fact that only 19 per cent of teenage girls are actually overweight, a staggering 67 per cent feel they need to lose at least half a stone. Nearly two-thirds of girls under 13 have been on a diet.

Almost threequarters of teenage girls think thin girls are "more popular" and "more attractive to boys", while 66 per cent say they are "depressed" that they cannot attain the looks of their celebrity idol.

The problem is rife in London and the south east, where just four per cent are happy with their body and 62 per cent - nearly 20 per cent above the national average - believe they would be happier if they were thinner. Britney Spears is named by the girls surveyed - whose average age is 14 - as the top female to aspire to.

And they say the "perfect" specimen would be comprised of former S-Club 7 star Rachel Stevens' face, Britney's arms, Christina Aguilera's breasts and stomach and Beyonce's legs.

Probably the only heartening aspect of the survey is that the fullerfigured J-Lo's bottom is voted most perfect rear, while the siliconeenhanced Jordan is denounced as having one of the worst bodies.

The study, commissioned by magazine Bliss, questioned 2,000 teenaged girls across the UK.

It found that, regardless of huge publicity about the dangers of eating disorders, teens are still being affected by their own mothers' continuing anxiety about their weight as much as the skinny cult of celebrity.

Nine out of ten girls who say they are "unhappy" with their body say their mothers are insecure about their weight.

"Female body image obsession has grown year on year since the sixties and it's now reached epidemic proportions, filtering down to young girls," said Bliss editor Helen Johnston. "Teenage girls look to their mums for guidance only to see them continually worrying about their own body shape and size.

Now many girls of 13 and 14 are dieting constantly at an age when their bodies are still developing.

"It's tragic that even girls of a normal weight want to be skinny. They are driving themselves mad trying to achieve unrealistic bodies that even supermodels won't lay claim to."

Source: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/lifeandstyle/articles/8439488?source=Evening%20Standard

This just goes to show the terrible influence people like Beyonce/J-Lo and Britney are having on teenage girls. And it also shows they are popular because of their body parts. Yes, it's not their music or "talent" because they don't have any but because fans see that they have nice body parts. Very sad.

Sam L
Jan 6th, 2004, 05:48 AM
Celebrities like Pink and Michelle McManus are the ones with talent whom we should be revering. :clap2: They don't need to strip to get attention.

Randy H
Jan 6th, 2004, 06:36 AM
If your own perception of yourself is that terrible because of the way other people portrayed in the media look then I would say that there are probably several mental issues that need to be worked out if you are that insecure and that there are probably underlying issues or other reasons that lead you to be that way.

While I am sure the media hardly helps to make them feel more confident in their own looks, I find it hard to believe that that is the real stemming problem or cause. It is a way to hide behind other issues by placing the blame on something else.

per4ever
Jan 6th, 2004, 07:39 AM
It are mostly young children who get influenced so much. They shouldn't be dieting, while lots of older girls and women should be doing more excercise ;)

hey_britney
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:03 AM
Celebrities like Pink and Michelle McManus are the ones with talent whom we should be revering. :clap2: They don't need to strip to get attention.

I don't know who the McManus is, but Pink is just as raunchy as anyone.

hey_britney
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:07 AM
If your own perception of yourself is that terrible because of the way other people portrayed in the media look then I would say that there are probably several mental issues that need to be worked out if you are that insecure and that there are probably underlying issues or other reasons that lead you to be that way.

While I am sure the media hardly helps to make them feel more confident in their own looks, I find it hard to believe that that is the real stemming problem or cause. It is a way to hide behind other issues by placing the blame on something else.

I think you're wrong. These women are held up as role models. Teenage girls want to be them. And it's not just music celebrities, it's every woman in movies and in magazines. Girls want to be pretty, and this culture has forcefed them to believe that the only pretty girls are thin and blonde. And not everybody is, so .... some will go to drastic lengths. Maybe your argument of underlying mental issues would be valid if this wasn't 9/10 girls. But it is.

jd4eva
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:14 AM
It's not their fault that they look good.

They shouldn't be held accountable for other people's insecurities.

hey_britney
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:17 AM
But back to music for a second. The worst part of these supposed female "role models" (I'm thinking Christina and Britney here, more so than the rest), is their contradiction. Christina can go sing a song called "Can't hold us down" about women standing up for themselves, while at the same time she's dressed like a common streetwalker in the video. She says wearing skimpy outfits empowers women. RIGHT. It's really empowering to objectify yourself and give men exactly what they want.

Then you have Britney. She'll go out a sing a song about how she's "Not a girl, Not yet a woman". Nice coming-of-age-ditty. Then she'll do "I'm a Slave 4 U" and lesbian kiss Madonna. Somehow I think she's a woman now. It's just ... all the female stars (Christina and Britney are just the most flagrant violations) send very mixed messages. Why? Because Christina's management knows that she won't get played on MTV unless she's wearing a thong. They also know she has to cowtow to her audience (teenage girls), so they have her out repeating the standard lines. Britney's management knows that sex sells, so they have her acting like a sexpot in some of her videos, but then sending that heartfelt message to her teenage girl base in others. It's all so insincere, and these people should not be looked up to but they are.

The moral of the tale? Don't buy the CDs of skanks.

hey_britney
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:18 AM
It's not their fault that they look good.

They shouldn't be held accountable for other people's insecurities.

But is it the media's fault for pushing this one singular image of the beautiful female in all walks of media?

Randy H
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:33 AM
I think you're wrong. These women are held up as role models. Teenage girls want to be them. And it's not just music celebrities, it's every woman in movies and in magazines. Girls want to be pretty, and this culture has forcefed them to believe that the only pretty girls are thin and blonde. And not everybody is, so .... some will go to drastic lengths. Maybe your argument of underlying mental issues would be valid if this wasn't 9/10 girls. But it is.

I don't disagree with what you're saying but I don't think that it's those girls who are to blame directly for little teenage girls' problems. Yes they are supposed role models (even though many claim they do not want to be), but I just can't believe that 9 out of 10 girls feel they are fat and ugly because Beyonce and Britney look the way they do. That is not the problem. The problem is that the media does not embrace more realistic images of everyday beautiful women who are of many different shapes, races etc., and children cannot depend solely on musicians and models to be their role models and people to look up to. Parents, teachers, or whoever, should be making efforts to instill confidence in kids from an early age and make them understand that 1. Britney Spears does not have to be the image of perfection, and 2. What the media portrays is often fake airbrushed crap anyway. It's amazing what some touching up can do to a photo, and too many people (especially already vulnerable developing teens) do not understand the realistic perspective behind it all. I think too many kids are just not given that confidence from the people around them, and it's very important to have at a young age in order to cope with many situations in life, not just your own feelings, but your actions and decisions too.

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:41 AM
I don't care how much skin they show - in fact the more the better. :lick: I'm also sceptical about this blonde stereotype business. Lots of these women are decidedly not blonde. How many of the original supermodels (Cindy, Elle, Naomi, etc) were blonde?

However, I do think it's tough when the media promote a view that to be acceptable you have to be a freakish body shape - made even more freakish by the heavy use of airbrushing, computer modified images, etc, etc, not to mention plastic surgery, cosmetic dentistry, etc.

Even on this board, I see extraordinarily beautiful women criticised as being "not hot" if they show the slightest touch of body fat (unless it's in GM and the woman concerned is Daniela Hantuchova, which is another story).

It would be nice if a pretty girl could just enjoy being a pretty girl.

hey_britney
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:41 AM
I don't disagree with what you're saying but I don't think that it's those girls who are to blame directly for little teenage girls' problems. Yes they are supposed role models (even though many claim they do not want to be), but I just can't believe that 9 out of 10 girls feel they are fat and ugly because Beyonce and Britney look the way they do. That is not the problem. The problem is that the media does not embrace more realistic images of everyday beautiful women who are of many different shapes, races etc., and children cannot depend solely on musicians and models to be their role models and people to look up to. Parents, teachers, or whoever, should be making efforts to instill confidence in kids from an early age and make them understand that 1. Britney Spears does not have to be the image of perfection, and 2. What the media portrays is often fake airbrushed crap anyway. It's amazing what some touching up can do to a photo, and too many people (especially already vulnerable developing teens) do not understand the realistic perspective behind it all. I think too many kids are just not given that confidence from the people around them, and it's very important to have at a young age in order to cope with many situations in life, not just your own feelings, but your actions and decisions too.

Well, I ask you. How do you instill confidence in your child? How do get them to believe something that their peers don't believe and the media implicitly tells them not to believe? Basically, Randy, I don't think we are living in a time of neglectful parents, I just think that there are many more influences on one side of the coin than the other.

hey_britney
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:42 AM
I don't care how much skin they show - in fact the more the better. :lick:

Oh, Britney's management team already knows that. ;)

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:44 AM
^Yeah, but there's a serious point in my post - however surprisingly.

jd4eva
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:45 AM
hey britney: i agree with you to some extent however it isn't the sole fault of the magazines, it's society's fault as well.

at the end of the day, magazines are there to make money so they use what's popular and appealing in society's perception. if society perceived fat people to be beautiful, then magazines would have to conform to that view in order to sell. its society, rather than magazines, that dictate our own perceptions of what is sexy.

however, i think its a lot fairer to blame magazines and society as opposed to the girls themselves. they work hard to look the way they do and people should stop hating on them for that reason.

hey_britney
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:46 AM
^Yeah, but there's a serious point in my post - however surprisingly.

I read it.

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:54 AM
The thing is, all these girls really are beautiful (I don't believe that beauty is entirely socially constructed). But the media keep upping the ante by the narrowness of the range of appearances that they will accept as beautiful, and by altering the girls' bodies and/or images, so that girls generally are encouraged to model themselves on images that just about genetically impossible, and guys are encouraged to worship/seek out the same images.

I don't blame the girls either. I'm happy for them to use their genuine beauty, but they have no choice but to have their images further "adjusted" if they are to be competitive in doing so. It's a systemic problem.

hey_britney
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:55 AM
hey britney: i agree with you to some extent however it isn't the fault of the magazines, it's society's fault.

at the end of the day, magazines are there to make money so they use what's popular and appealing in society's perception. if society perceived fat people to be beautiful, then magazines would have to conform to that view in order to sell. its society, rather than magazines, that dictate our own perceptions of what is sexy.

however, i think its a lot fairer to blame magazines and society as opposed to the girls themselves. they work hard to look the way they do and people should stop hating on them for that reason.

I don't think we should blame individual celebrities either. But we should hold them accountable for the their mixed messages.

Now. I don't agree with something. Most people don't think fat people are sexy. But some do. Certainly more do than are represented by the magazine coverage. But that's beside the point. Current celebrities like Beyonce and J-Lo are not the median weight. They weight far less. Which is fine, but so does nearly every single other female celebrity. So you see, I don't believe every single person finds ONE body type attractive. Look at the movie stars of the 50's and 60's. THEY WOULD GET DESTROYED TODAY. Every tabloid would be on them about their weight. The point is, the media only shows this one single body type (which is very hard to obtain) and holds it up as the ideal. Furthermore, it's usually only the women that have to deal with this intense scrutiny about their bodies. Are you telling me the media's obsession with Kate Winslet gaining a few pounds or Calista Flockhart losing some weight is good? They are continuing to drive home this perfect body ideal, and they ARE to be blamed for those type of destructive articles in this time of rampant obesity and eating disorders.

Lastly, we should actually blame celebrities like Christina and Britney for their blatant hypocrisy. Somebody should force these girls to answer the pertinent questions, but that will never happen since the only people that talk to them are the media, and the media are collaborators.

jd4eva
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:56 AM
That's right. So we agree that the insecurities of these girls have nothing to do with the stars themselves. Merely a combination of society and the media's perception of people like Beyonce and J-Lo as the definition of beauty.

jd4eva
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:58 AM
The point I am essentially trying to make is that its not the fault of the stars that they look good. They work hard at it and they shouldn't have to compromise their own physical appearance in order to make others feel better about themselves.

And anyway, Beyonce and J-Lo are nowhere near the level of someone like Kate Moss. Now that's skinny.

jd4eva
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:01 AM
I'd also like to point out that men are also shown a perfect ideal which is (almost) always unattainable.

It isn't only women who are bombarded with pictures of perfect physical specimens. Do I feel insecure sometimes when I see these men? Sure.

Do I think that they should compromise their looks to make me feel better? Of course not.

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:03 AM
I don't even mind Kate Moss. She's skinny but she's not unhealthy looking - not really - and she is beautiful. She should have her place in the pantheon of the world's beautiful women. It's the unremitting exclusion of people who are not the "right" shape, and the forcing of people who are already beautiful to conform to it.....

Anyway, enough.

jd4eva
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:03 AM
hey britney: so you're saying that if society started revolting and refused to buy magazines because society now perceived plus sized people to be attractive that magazines would continue to publish the images that they do now?

hey_britney
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:04 AM
That's right. So we agree that the insecurities of these girls have nothing to do with the stars themselves. Merely a combination of society and the media's perception of people like Beyonce and J-Lo as the definition of beauty.

Yeah, sort of. Like I said before, people like Britney and Christina and even Beyonce and J-Lo can be faulted for the discrepancies between the things they have said and the things they have done. And their willing role in all of it. Are they directly responsible for some girl getting an eating disorder? No. Are they doing anything good for the female psyche? No. Is that their fault? Maybe.

hey_britney
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:06 AM
I'd also like to point out that men are also shown a perfect ideal which is (almost) always unattainable.

It isn't only women who are bombarded with pictures of perfect physical specimens. Do I feel insecure sometimes when I see these men? Sure.

Do I think that they should compromise their looks to make me feel better? Of course not.

Nobody is suggesting people should have to compromise their looks. No idea where you got that from.

It's different from men to women. Nobody writes about Mel Gibson gaining ten pounds. And there seems to be a lot more room for what men can look like and still be considered attractived. Not that I'm saying that it's not the same thing. It is, just to a slesser extent.

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:06 AM
Put it this way, jd, if male bodybuilders were held out as the only acceptable standard for male beauty, us guys would be in trouble.

But a middle-aged, boyish-looking guy like Bill Clinton can be considered sexy. The older-still Sean Connery can be considered sexy. We have it a lot easier than women do.

hey_britney
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:12 AM
hey britney: so you're saying that if society started revolting and refused to buy magazines because society now perceived plus sized people to be attractive that magazines would continue to publish the images that they do now?

I see what you are saying. But I'm not saying we need to be putting ugly people on the covers of style magazines. We just need to have much less emphasis on the one, impossibly skinny, hardly attainable female perfect body type. That DOESN'T represent all segments of society, and it doesn't represent what all segments of society want. I mean .... Marilyn Monroe was sexy ... she would be too fat today. Liz taylor was sexy ... now she'd be too fat.

jd4eva
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:12 AM
of course joui, but i don't think that males are entirely free of societal expectations of what is considered attractive.

the article states that people like j-lo, christina and beyonce are responsible for insecurities in teenage girls. thus it essentially says that if they didn't look so good there wouldn't be this problem.

hey_britney
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:14 AM
of course joui, but i don't think that males are entirely free of societal expectations of what is considered attractive.

the article states that people like j-lo, christina and beyonce are responsible for insecurities in teenage girls. thus it essentially says that if they didn't look so good there wouldn't be this problem.

I'm not even discussing the article. My posts are about my thoughts on this issue. I didn't even read past the first paragraph of the article. So don't think I've been defending it all this time.

And nobody has said that males are entirely free from societal expectations about what is attractive. Completely the opposite. We are, just not as much.

jd4eva
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:14 AM
hey britney: of course, but it must represent a majority of what society wants. otherwise magazines wouldn't sell so well.

jd4eva
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:16 AM
hey britney: lol, that's probably why we've been on different wavelengths to some extent.

i totally agree with what you've said so far (if i discard the article).

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:17 AM
Thank God for the British TV and movie industries, though. It's always such a relief to see pretty actresses who look more or less like real people.

I think most of us can tell the difference between what is beautiful in real life and these impossible media images. But it's not surprising if some people (perhaps a small percentage, but a lot of individuals) react in ways that are self-destructive.

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:19 AM
Hi, jd. Yeah, I'm not really defending the article either, just giving my take on the issue. :)

hey_britney
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:20 AM
hey britney: of course, but it must represent a majority of what society wants. otherwise magazines wouldn't sell so well.

Of course. The media have built it, now society has come.

hey_britney
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:21 AM
hey britney: lol, that's probably why we've been on different wavelengths to some extent.

i totally agree with what you've said so far (if i discard the article).

Ok. :D

decemberlove
Jan 6th, 2004, 12:01 PM
its really all about home life and the parenting [or lack of] that a girl receives. its not magazines or female celebs.

i think what a lot of girls dont realize is that without the make-up and airbrushing, the celebs are just ordinary faces with extraordinary bodies that they worked their ass off for.

and ha! at girls thinking skinny girls have a lot of friends. guy friend that wish to fuck them, maybe. but girl friends? hell no. i have very few girl friends that havent stabbed me in the back. girls meet me for the first time, and at "hi" they hate me already. tell me why that is?

hey_britney
Jan 6th, 2004, 12:56 PM
its really all about home life and the parenting [or lack of] that a girl receives. its not magazines or female celebs.

I don't agree. Parents these days are fighting perceptions amongst girl's peers which they have learned implicitly from the media. That's a lot of weight to counteract.

hey_britney
Jan 6th, 2004, 12:59 PM
How come those two artists are metioned in the title when there are 5 artists in the magazine. Also why did u single Beyonce, J-Lo & Britney out "highlighting them" when they are apparently showing off thier Legs, Bottom & Arms .... and u dont metion Xtina who has breasts and midriff??
I sense favouratism here. ....

Meanwhile about the article ... bullshit .... people should be able to dress how they want and sing what they want just as long as it isnt seriously harmin nobody and isnt racist or vulgar. These woman are all beautiful and hav a right to appear this way. The fact is it isn't their fault that certain teenage girls try to look like them or wateva ... i mean its not like any of them are anorexic or anything and dress very innapropriately (ala Xtina who wasnt highlighted) .... i dont see the prob.
And if people are insecure about their weight and want to lose weight to look better like their fav celebs then they should ..... Maybe if it wasnt for these celebs America would be an even fatter country than it already is.

LOL. They've all dressed "inappropriately" if Christina has.

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 6th, 2004, 01:30 PM
*notes that the "inappropriate dressing" issue is a separate one; even if everyone went naked, there could still be an issue about the media insisting (in their portrayal of beauty) on a very narrow range of extreme, often technologically-modified, body images*

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 6th, 2004, 01:43 PM
I actually think the "inappropriate dressing" issue is nonsense. You see a lot more on the beach, at least in Australia you do.

But the body image issue is real.

hey_britney
Jan 6th, 2004, 01:43 PM
Xtina though seems to be making an extreme effort to dress inapprpriately fairly often. Britney does sometimes, Beyonce i havent seen dress inappropriately, JLo only the green dress comes to mind .,... i dont know bout rachel

They all have been just as bad as Christina. Beyonce has worn stuff at least as revealing. JLo took her top off in a music video and posed in a bikini in another. Britney is a slut, we all know.

Not that I think this is even a bad thing. I don't believe there is "inappropriate" dress, and i think people should be able to wear (or not wear) whatever they want to. But you can't say Christina dresses skimpier.

Chris_Martin's_woman
Jan 6th, 2004, 04:44 PM
why is there so much infatuation with J. Lo's butt? I think it is gross being that big.......for butt, I would give it to probably Christinia.

SJW
Jan 6th, 2004, 04:54 PM
It's not their fault that they look good.

They shouldn't be held accountable for other people's insecurities.

right.

love your sig btw :)

Sam L dude get over your obsession with these two women :tape:

SJW
Jan 6th, 2004, 04:55 PM
why is there so much infatuation with J. Lo's butt? I think it is gross being that big.......for butt, I would give it to probably Christinia.

there's nothing wrong with not being as flat as a wall

Chris_Martin's_woman
Jan 6th, 2004, 05:20 PM
there's nothing wrong with not being as flat as a wall
oh i agree i just think her behind is a bit too big

Randy H
Jan 6th, 2004, 06:16 PM
Well, I ask you. How do you instill confidence in your child? How do get them to believe something that their peers don't believe and the media implicitly tells them not to believe? Basically, Randy, I don't think we are living in a time of neglectful parents, I just think that there are many more influences on one side of the coin than the other.

I can only talk based on what I know from my own experiences whether it be through myself or the people around me and I know that if I talk to friends who are not confident with their looks, most of them are even less confident in other areas of their life. Don't like their personality, don't think anyone likes them, don't think they are smart, don't think they are capable of succeeding. It's a series of things, and they don't just start because of the pop culture role models they've been exposed to.

If I asked those friends why they feel the way they do, I think most of them would say that they never felt very confident growing up, never had the support from the people around them that they may have needed, didn't have a strong enough relationship with them to be able to talk to them when they were having problems or upset. The real role models need to be people who can be realistic role models to them, people they can talk to and trust. The friends I have that are generally confident (of course everyone has their insecurities no matter what), are generally the ones who are confident in almost all areas about themselves. They are more independant and have more belief in their themselves and their choices, they feel more capable to achieve things - It's just not about looks, it's about all forms of confidence and it comes down to how you feel on the inside that shows through on how you feel about the rest of what is around you.

harloo
Jan 6th, 2004, 06:53 PM
Your parents are responsible for molding you into someone who believes in themself, and knowing that they are ok regardless of what the media presents to them as beautiful.

What I find today is that alot of parents let pop culture define their children's perception of themselves. I think it's being irresponsible to allow a star to mold your childs self esteem and self worth.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 6th, 2004, 07:46 PM
Celebrities like Pink and Michelle McManus are the ones with talent whom we should be revering. :clap2: They don't need to strip to get attention.


Pink doesn't need to strip to get attention? This could be my imagination, but I'm sure that I've seen her half naked on several occasions.

Since when does Pink qualify as "large", btw?

Crazy Canuck
Jan 6th, 2004, 07:47 PM
I don't know who the McManus is, but Pink is just as raunchy as anyone.

Right. So it wasn't just my imagination.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:04 PM
its really all about home life and the parenting [or lack of] that a girl receives. its not magazines or female celebs.

i think what a lot of girls dont realize is that without the make-up and airbrushing, the celebs are just ordinary faces with extraordinary bodies that they worked their ass off for.

and ha! at girls thinking skinny girls have a lot of friends. guy friend that wish to fuck them, maybe. but girl friends? hell no. i have very few girl friends that havent stabbed me in the back. girls meet me for the first time, and at "hi" they hate me already. tell me why that is?

I know that this happens and all... but I don't understand. I have several very good female friends who are ten times better looking than I will ever be (even ten pounds lighter and airbrushed), and this has never really bothered me that much :confused:

Since when are you "skinny", btw? Judging by the way you bag on women who have no curves all the time, I was under the impression that you weren't "skinny". Whatever... it's not important ;)

King Satan
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:06 PM
oh i agree i just think her behind is a bit too big
you could never have enough :drool:

Crazy Canuck
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:15 PM
I disagree with everybody who is blaming this all on poor parenting. I've seen girls from all different types of parenting situations develop the same insecurities about their bodies. If parenting is to blame, then I find it awfully strange that I've developed a reasonably healthy body imagine while friends of mine who look much better and had a much better family life consider themselves disgusting.

Parental influence only goes so far. What about when your child goes to school? Goes out with friends?

Your average adolescent spends more hours in the company of their peers than their parents. No matter how good of a parent you are, it's impossible to "save" your children from peer influences... which of course, are influenced by the movies they see together, the magazines they read, etc. etc.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:16 PM
Also... your average adolescent cares more about impressing their peers than impressing their parents.... no matter how good their family relationships are.

Having Mom and Dad tell you that you're beautiful has little weight when everywhere else you turn you're being given a different message.

Randy H
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:28 PM
I disagree with everybody who is blaming this all on poor parenting. I've seen girls from all different types of parenting situations develop the same insecurities about their bodies. If parenting is to blame, then I find it awfully strange that I've developed a reasonably healthy body imagine while friends of mine who look much better and had a much better family life consider themselves disgusting.

Parental influence only goes so far. What about when your child goes to school? Goes out with friends?

Your average adolescent spends more hours in the company of their peers than their parents. No matter how good of a parent you are, it's impossible to "save" your children from peer influences... which of course, are influenced by the movies they see together, the magazines they read, etc. etc.

Of course it's not just about the parents, there are many different factors and things to consider, but don't you think that if the parents had given them more confidence in themselves early on, they would understand that not everyone is going to be nice to you growing up, not everyone is going to like you, there are jealous and hurtful people who are going to call you stupid, fat, and ugly, and it's important that you understand that and that that is not a true reflection of you?

Not everyone is deeply affected by the words people say to others, because they don't allow it to affect them. They know they are beautiful regardless of what a peer says, and it's like bullying - They try and pick out the weakest people that are least likely to fight back. If people can see that you are insecure and unconfident, then chances are you are going to be a bigger target.

What about kids who get into trouble a lot? Sure there are influences by peers, but not *everyone* feels the need to impress their peers and get into trouble with various things. The kids who do get in trouble are often lacking something inside, they are not getting the attention they need, or they don't feel confident in themselves that they have a likeable personality so they need to try and show off somehow. I don't think that they watched a bunch of cop and drama shows and were driven by the influence of the 'bad guys' portrayed in them.

hey_britney
Jan 6th, 2004, 08:34 PM
I disagree with everybody who is blaming this all on poor parenting. I've seen girls from all different types of parenting situations develop the same insecurities about their bodies. If parenting is to blame, then I find it awfully strange that I've developed a reasonably healthy body imagine while friends of mine who look much better and had a much better family life consider themselves disgusting.

Parental influence only goes so far. What about when your child goes to school? Goes out with friends?

Your average adolescent spends more hours in the company of their peers than their parents. No matter how good of a parent you are, it's impossible to "save" your children from peer influences... which of course, are influenced by the movies they see together, the magazines they read, etc. etc.

THAT IS WHAT I WAS SAYING!!!!! Parents are an influence, but so are peers and the media!!! I mean, you have your parents on one side, and the other two on the other. What holds more weight?

decemberlove
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:01 PM
I know that this happens and all... but I don't understand. I have several very good female friends who are ten times better looking than I will ever be (even ten pounds lighter and airbrushed), and this has never really bothered me that much :confused:

Since when are you "skinny", btw? Judging by the way you bag on women who have no curves all the time, I was under the impression that you weren't "skinny". Whatever... it's not important ;)

i dont understand either, but girls either completely adore me or hate me without knowing me. the ones that hate me, and take the time to get to know me, usually grow to love me.

and since when arent there skinny girls with curves? j.lo and beyonce and even britney are perfect examples of this. i bag on skinny girls with no curves like i bag on blonde men... i dont find them attractive, so i really have no use for them. i dont see whats wrong with having my own taste in women :confused:

ive never claimed i wasnt skinny. i always thought my size was evident in pictures ive posted here before. i push 120lbs on a pms fat day, if im lucky.

decemberlove
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:02 PM
THAT IS WHAT I WAS SAYING!!!!! Parents are an influence, but so are peers and the media!!! I mean, you have your parents on one side, and the other two on the other. What holds more weight?

i suppose it depends on the girl...

Crazy Canuck
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:02 PM
Yeah but it's not as if they are being told "you're ugly." That's a whole new can of worms.
I was simplifying in order to avoid writing a ten paragraph post.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:04 PM
i dont understand either, but girls either completely adore me or hate me without knowing me. the ones that hate me, and take the time to get to know me, usually grow to love me.

and since when arent there skinny girls with curves? j.lo and beyonce and even britney are perfect examples of this. i bag on skinny girls with no curves like i bag on blonde men... i dont find them attractive, so i really have no use for them. i dont see whats wrong with having my own taste in women :confused:

ive never claimed i wasnt skinny. i always thought my size was evident in pictures ive posted here before. i push 120lbs on a pms fat day, if im lucky.
I don't know where you got the idea that I saw something wrong with your bagging on particular body types... or blonde men? :confused:

decemberlove
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:08 PM
i dont. was explaining why i bag on them... compared them to blonde men cos i bag on them just as much. t'has nothing to do with MY body type.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:14 PM
Of course it's not just about the parents, there are many different factors and things to consider, but don't you think that if the parents had given them more confidence in themselves early on, they would understand that not everyone is going to be nice to you growing up, not everyone is going to like you, there are jealous and hurtful people who are going to call you stupid, fat, and ugly, and it's important that you understand that and that that is not a true reflection of you?

I think that the majority of these girls likely have had parents that tried to do just that. I repeat: parental influence only goes so far. For some people it's stronger than others... but I do not feel that this is necessarily a reflection of the parents themselves. There are SO many factors at play, that pointing the fingers at the parents completely misses the point, imo. Just like pointing the finger at the media and saying "it's all your fault" doesn't solve the problem either. (however, it is important to note that it's the media who is manufacturing these images... so pointing fingers at them is a tad more productive than pointing them at the parents, imo.)

Your average adolescent is more influenced by their peers and the media, than by their parents. This has little to do with how good or bad the parents have been.


Not everyone is deeply affected by the words people say to others, because they don't allow it to affect them. They know they are beautiful regardless of what a peer says, and it's like bullying - They try and pick out the weakest people that are least likely to fight back. If people can see that you are insecure and unconfident, then chances are you are going to be a bigger target.

I don't see what this has to do with parenting?

In my household alone I've got several siblings all with different levels of self esteem. I'm doing alright, but both my siblings have had to fight with themselves for years. Clearly there are more factors at work than just parenting. We've all been taught the same lessons and loved the same way, but we aren't all confident and self loving. My brother got picked on all the time, and I rarely did


What about kids who get into trouble a lot? Sure there are influences by peers, but not *everyone* feels the need to impress their peers and get into trouble with various things. The kids who do get in trouble are often lacking something inside, they are not getting the attention they need, or they don't feel confident in themselves that they have a likeable personality so they need to try and show off somehow. I don't think that they watched a bunch of cop and drama shows and were driven by the influence of the 'bad guys' portrayed in them.

Some of the worst kids I met in highschool had pretty decent homelives. Much better than my own.

Again... there are so many factors at play, that pointing the fingers and crying "bad parenting" is absolutely ridiculous.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:17 PM
I don't think that they watched a bunch of cop and drama shows and were driven by the influence of the 'bad guys' portrayed in them.

Here's something to chew on... take a group of preschool aged children, and show them some form of violent programming. Take another group and show them some form of regular, non violent programming.

Compare how they play in the half hour following their viewing.

Which group do you think will play more agressively?

Do not underestimate the power of the media.

Randy H
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:27 PM
I think we are basically having a lost debate here...

I understand the other half completely that you are pointing out, but I guess that different factors have varying effects on each individual.

The reason I chose to voice the parental factors is because Sam's twist on the article came off as blame on people like Britney, Beyonce, and J. Lo, which I think is unfair because even the article itself is not *blaming* those people. I just think it's important to point out that although the media can have some blame there are a lot of other things to recognize and consider too, and even though the media does influence, I still don't see how that should place any direct blame on those pop stars either.

Randy H
Jan 6th, 2004, 09:40 PM
btw, no pop star, actor or celebrity of any kind should be saddled with having to be a role model for anybody's kid. you want a role model for your kids? then be one.

:yeah:

harloo
Jan 6th, 2004, 10:12 PM
btw, no pop star, actor or celebrity of any kind should be saddled with having to be a role model for anybody's kid. you want a role model for your kids? then be one.

EXACTLY! ;)

jbone_0307
Jan 6th, 2004, 10:41 PM
that whole article contradicted itself didn't it??? J-LO and Beyonce are thick, so why would they even include their names in here because they are far from skinny and arent trying to be

kiwifan
Jan 6th, 2004, 10:53 PM
that whole article contradicted itself didn't it??? J-LO and Beyonce are thick, so why would they even include their names in here because they are far from skinny and arent trying to be

:banghead:


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:



Isn't that the most obvious reason why this article is a stupid ass recycled (from the "we hate Waif" Model days; circa early 1993) piece of garbage.

PS. I sure am glad DD isn't my mother. :smoke:

kiwifan
Jan 6th, 2004, 11:02 PM
me too, kiwi. i'd run out of brooms from whoopin' your behind, that's for sure. :devil:


:dance: :dance: :dance:


:yippee: :yippee: :yippee:



:devil:

kiwifan
Jan 6th, 2004, 11:17 PM
:lol:

:cool: :devil: :cool:

kiwifan
Jan 6th, 2004, 11:26 PM
:cool:


:tape:



:bolt:

DunkMachine
Jan 6th, 2004, 11:38 PM
They're not only a bad influence on teenage kids but also adolenscents with no date.

:tape:

CC
Jan 7th, 2004, 12:03 AM
:baby:

CC
Jan 7th, 2004, 12:11 AM
You're proud to conjure the devil, madam? :kiss:

Crazy Canuck
Jan 7th, 2004, 12:19 AM
I think we are basically having a lost debate here...

I understand the other half completely that you are pointing out, but I guess that different factors have varying effects on each individual.

The reason I chose to voice the parental factors is because Sam's twist on the article came off as blame on people like Britney, Beyonce, and J. Lo, which I think is unfair because even the article itself is not *blaming* those people. I just think it's important to point out that although the media can have some blame there are a lot of other things to recognize and consider too, and even though the media does influence, I still don't see how that should place any direct blame on those pop stars either.
I was trying to ignore that part, since it was obvious that SamL was just picking on the celebrities that he can't stand ;)

I don't agree that these women should have fingers pointed at them either... although hey britney brought up a good point about the hypocracy of a couple of them.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 7th, 2004, 12:21 AM
this is the reason why i don't agree with children being exposed to television at all when they're pre-schoolers. AT ALL. hell, if i had my way, they wouldn't be exposed to television until well into high school. what with the variety of reading material available, television plays absolutely NO fruitous place in the life of a child. none at all.

the first thing i ever watched was meet the nation. and that was when i was around ten. before that, television did not play a part in my life. to this day, i find it a task to watch. i'd rather read. when i have children i don't want them exposed to television for as long as possible. i'm not about to spend nine months carrying them, and a lifetime nurturing them, only to throw their minds out to someone else to fill with bullshit.


I agree, that young children should not be given free will to flip through the channels as they please. Not exposing them to television at all, is actually not a bad idea. I'll keep it in mind if I ever have children ;)

Crazy Canuck
Jan 7th, 2004, 12:24 AM
that whole article contradicted itself didn't it??? J-LO and Beyonce are thick, so why would they even include their names in here because they are far from skinny and arent trying to be
That depends how you define skinny... although I found their inclusion rather strange as well. I always looked at them and figured that they were a celebration of curves? But, as DD already said.... one can be skinny and still have curves. And both of them are definately under the average weight and size for women of their height. So I can see why they might be included afterall ;)

CC
Jan 7th, 2004, 12:50 AM
always...:lol:

Be careful ... the devil loves to give nightmares.

The boogeyman I presume ---> :sport:

Sam L
Jan 7th, 2004, 10:27 PM
The problem is these so-called "entertainers" are starving themselves to look nice and to make $$$ and are putting out a horrible image for our young girls. I think this is terrible and has to be stopped. :mad:

jbone_0307
Jan 7th, 2004, 11:36 PM
That depends how you define skinny... although I found their inclusion rather strange as well. I always looked at them and figured that they were a celebration of curves? But, as DD already said.... one can be skinny and still have curves. And both of them are definately under the average weight and size for women of their height. So I can see why they might be included afterall ;)


you are totally wrong. Have you seen J-LO and Beyonce, they arent model skinny and arent underweight for their size and height. They are not skinny at all.

Yal act like J-LO's booty is 3 feet of goo stick from her backside. It isn't that nasty/

decemberlove
Jan 7th, 2004, 11:46 PM
beyonce has lost a LOT of weight. never really considered her thick to being with. sure, they arent model skinny, but that doesnt mean they arent skinny!

j.lo is something like a size 6. which is definitely pretty skinny. beyonce is prolly smaller than that has she has always appeared thinner in the booty and the thighs than j.lo.

guess it all depends on your perception. still size 6 and under is thin...

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 7th, 2004, 11:55 PM
Yeah, if anyone can seriously claim that these girls are not thin it just shows how much our perceptions have been warped.

Again, the girls are genuinely beautiful, and I don't blame them at all. But I do think that a very narrow range of beauty is being offered to us.

Sam L
Jan 7th, 2004, 11:58 PM
The problem is not that they're thin that they're flaunting themselves half-naked on the stage. Am I the only one that sees this as a problem?

If these women weren't famous and are working in a office, then I'll say fine!

But they're providing very negative images for role models for young girls.

I was embarassed and disgusted when Beyonce flaunted around half-naked on the stage at the MTV video awards, and her popularity is suggesting to girls that if you want to be popular and have lots of sex, you need to look like her.

This is wrong.

Princess Fiona
Jan 8th, 2004, 12:03 AM
The problem is these so-called "entertainers" are starving themselves to look nice and to make $$$ and are putting out a horrible image for our young girls. I think this is terrible and has to be stopped. :mad:

Just out of interest, what would you stop? Stop Beyoncé and J-Lo from singing again? Making videos? Hmmm...

I don't think it's really fair to say that glamorous people in the media are 'bad influences' - what about celebrities who smoke for example? Brag about drug taking/binge drinking etc? Are they not 'bad influences'? I think the teens are famously tough - you start to find your identity, hormones are all over the place, exams, peer pressure, problems with parents... What if I were thinner, would he/she like me? Would I be the perfect person? I don't think that you can really say that J-Lo 'specifically' drove me to an eating disorder... (If I am at all wrong I sincerely and truly apologise from the very bottom of my heart) I wasn't a very happy teenage girl - I had lots of hangups. I thought I was fat and ugly. But I personally wanted to be slimmer in a lot of ways because I thought that life would be better and it was more of a 'control' thing more than a certain celebrity looking slim and gorgeous...

(I'm sorry if I have babbled too much... ;) I'm sorry if I have covered something that someone else has covered too... )

Rocketta
Jan 8th, 2004, 12:03 AM
I think it depends on your height, whether size 6 and under is too thin....

If they are 5'7" or taller then size 6 and smaller is on the thin side but if they are 5'5" or so then that's not skinny.

Rocketta
Jan 8th, 2004, 12:06 AM
I mean when they go places dressed like this, all I can think is what a slut and poor role model...;)

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20031211/i/r1224312967.jpg

psst, i'm joking to all the true Celine fans out there. :)

decemberlove
Jan 8th, 2004, 12:09 AM
i dunno... its just that theyre stomachs are SO FLAT [esp jlo] that their bodies are almost impossible to attain [big booty, thick thighs, flat stomach, thin arms, etc].

id have to say thou, that xtina is the worst of them all. atleast brit, jlo, beyonce, etc kept their natural tits. cant say the same for xtina :tape:

the only good role model out of hte bunch is mandy moore. but her music is utter crap. atleast she has class thou.

alicia keys is another role model... but i dont place her in the same category as jlo, beyonce, brit, xtina, jessica, etc...

decemberlove
Jan 8th, 2004, 12:14 AM
it doesnt and they shouldnt be labeled role models, but they are. and girls look up to them.

why? prolly cos they lack role models in their real life [like a strong mother or other female relative]

i really do believe it all starts at home.
there are the few of us [like myself] who trudge through a bullshit family life and still persevere in life, but i think it really helps to have a strong foundation to build from.

Sam L
Jan 8th, 2004, 12:16 AM
I mean when they go places dressed like this, all I can think is what a slut and poor role model...;)

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20031211/i/r1224312967.jpg

psst, i'm joking to all the true Celine fans out there. :)
You idiot, since when was Celine ever popular with teenage girls? At least, not as widely as popular as Britney et al are.

And besides, Celine was ALWAYS thin, she didn't try to go to impossible lengths to maintain this figure. And not to mention she doesn't have big boobs or big thighs. She's a natural.

Really, you're grasping at straws. :o

Rocketta
Jan 8th, 2004, 12:16 AM
i dunno... its just that theyre stomachs are SO FLAT [esp jlo] that their bodies are almost impossible to attain [big booty, thick thighs, flat stomach, thin arms, etc].

id have to say thou, that xtina is the worst of them all. atleast brit, jlo, beyonce, etc kept their natural tits. cant say the same for xtina :tape:

the only good role model out of hte bunch is mandy moore. but her music is utter crap. atleast she has class thou.

alicia keys is another role model... but i dont place her in the same category as jlo, beyonce, brit, xtina, jessica, etc...

Ohh saw alicia on Jay Leno last night, I think. She was so good. To be able to sing that well while playing the piano.. Hey to just be able to play the piano..:o

r u sure Britney's boobs are real? I don't know but I thought people were talking about that too?

About the flat stomach, thick thighs, and big booty....frankly, I've seen many an athletic black girl with that type of figure....One of my best friends in High Schools shape would put them all to shame. She did 100 sit-ups everynight though.;)

I think for some of these women, namely J.Lo & Beyonce they won the genetic lottery. They have to work to maintain it but for a lot of us it doesn't matter how skinny we get we'll never have figures like that...:sad:

Sam L
Jan 8th, 2004, 12:17 AM
Alicia Keys shits all over Beyonce.

Rocketta
Jan 8th, 2004, 12:18 AM
You idiot, since when was Celine ever popular with teenage girls? At least, not as widely as popular as Britney et al are.

And besides, Celine was ALWAYS thin, she didn't try to go to impossible lengths to maintain this figure. And not to mention she doesn't have big boobs or big thighs. She's a natural.

Really, you're grasping at straws. :o

aww there you go!! Keep making those excuses...

one person does something and their a slut and bad role model and another does it and it's ok... :rolleyes:

Rocketta
Jan 8th, 2004, 12:18 AM
Alicia Keys shits all over Beyonce.

and your point? :confused:

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 8th, 2004, 12:30 AM
The problem is not that they're thin that they're flaunting themselves half-naked on the stage. Am I the only one that sees this as a problem?


Probably. :devil:

Randy H
Jan 8th, 2004, 01:27 AM
You idiot, since when was Celine ever popular with teenage girls? At least, not as widely as popular as Britney et al are.

And besides, Celine was ALWAYS thin, she didn't try to go to impossible lengths to maintain this figure. And not to mention she doesn't have big boobs or big thighs. She's a natural.

Really, you're grasping at straws. :o

I guess Celine is a much better role model because at 16 she had surgery on her teeth during a 2 year break from music in order to help transform her image, married a man 26 years older than her at the age of 20 (who was essentially her father figure since the age of 12), never finished high school and is just as skinny - and you do not know Celine to know what lengths she goes to to maintain that.

Now I personally could care less what Celine wants to do, she is free to do as she pleases and I am not about to judge. And that applies to anyone, so please stop being a hypocrite because the people you seem to think are the proper role models have had their share of 'controversial' incidences too. Celine had surgery on her teeth, she said she felt like she wasn't beautiful, and it was all part of an attempt to make her more physically appealing so I guess that means that if any of these girls feel ugly, Celine is living proof that the only way to make it big is to get yourself all cleaned up or else you have no chance to make it right? :rolleyes:

And how exactly do you know what lengths Beyonce etc. go to keep their figures? You have no more insight to that than you do Celine, and aren't you the same person who made a thread all about dieting? So again, who are you to judge? If they want to show off and be proud of what they have, what is wrong with that? I'd feel a lot better knowing that I was proud of my body than feeling ashamed and ugly...

Rocketta
Jan 8th, 2004, 01:38 AM
I guess Celine is a much better role model because at 16 she had surgery on her teeth during a 2 year break from music in order to help transform her image, married a man 26 years older than her at the age of 20 (who was essentially her father figure since the age of 12), never finished high school and is just as skinny - and you do not know Celine to know what lengths she goes to to maintain that.


Oh No, she couldn't possible be doing this could she? ;)

http://chforums.com/images/smilies/throwup.gif

Randy H
Jan 8th, 2004, 01:44 AM
Oh No, she couldn't possible be doing this could she? ;)

http://chforums.com/images/smilies/throwup.gif

:lol:

*shock* *horror*

not the perfect angel celine! :eek:

Rocketta
Jan 8th, 2004, 01:49 AM
:lol:

*shock* *horror*

not the perfect angel celine! :eek:

opps, I forgot! :o

Knizzle
Jan 8th, 2004, 02:24 AM
I don't know who Rachel Stevens is off the top of my head, but the rest of those celebrities mentioned except Aguilera aren't exactly what I would call skinny. They have an ample amount of meat on their bones for their size.

Sam L
Jan 8th, 2004, 11:49 PM
I don't know who Rachel Stevens is off the top of my head, but the rest of those celebrities mentioned except Aguilera aren't exactly what I would call skinny. They have an ample amount of meat on their bones for their size.
Knizzle, that's precisely the problem. Many people are beginning to see them as "normal" body types when they're really skinny. People like Beyonce and J-Lo are bad news for teenage girls and that's a fact. We, as a community, should stand against "celebrities" like them, who says it's ok so starve for success and it's ok to sleep with men to get somewhere in life. Say NO to them!

Knizzle
Jan 9th, 2004, 12:02 AM
Knizzle, that's precisely the problem. Many people are beginning to see them as "normal" body types when they're really skinny. People like Beyonce and J-Lo are bad news for teenage girls and that's a fact. We, as a community, should stand against "celebrities" like them, who says it's ok so starve for success and it's ok to sleep with men to get somewhere in life. Say NO to them!

Neither Beyonce nor J-Lo are skinny though. Beyonce still seems to have her baby fat and J-Lo has a nice firm healthy body. Neither are anywhere near skin and bones. Aguilera is the closest out of these and even she doesn't look unhealthy like say Daniela Hantuchova.

harloo
Jan 9th, 2004, 12:18 AM
Like I said before, pop stars should not be a childs role model regardless of who it is, and if parents allow someone on a tv screen to define their childs worth then they should be locked up.

Futhermore, Beyonce and Jlo or any other celebrity are not the problem. It's these parents who rely on pop culture to raise their families. You are the first role model your child see's, and if you are not about shit then you will have nothing to give to your child confidence wise.

jd4eva
Jan 9th, 2004, 12:18 AM
Knizzle, that's precisely the problem. Many people are beginning to see them as "normal" body types when they're really skinny. People like Beyonce and J-Lo are bad news for teenage girls and that's a fact. We, as a community, should stand against "celebrities" like them, who says it's ok so starve for success and it's ok to sleep with men to get somewhere in life. Say NO to them!
And yet you continue to furiously diet.

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 9th, 2004, 12:20 AM
We're not talking about whether they look anorexic. They don't. Even Kate Moss does no look anorexic. She has actually has plenty of meat on her bones if you go and find some nude pics of her on the net, but a very slim build. For an ordinary girl to try to become as thin as her without having her genes is going to do her a fair bit of damage.

We're talking about whether the media are creating an impossible standard of beauty. If you think that the women who are held up as beautiful don't come within a very narrow range then I think you're an example of what we're talking about - people losing track of what real women, even very pretty ones, look like.

I have no problem with Kate Moss providing one standard of beauty in our culture. I actually think she is gorgeous. :hearts: The problem is when something like that is the only standard. The enhanced images of people like Beyonce are pretty much as impossible.

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 9th, 2004, 12:25 AM
OTOH, as for who these girls have screwed and why, I couldn't care less.

decemberlove
Jan 9th, 2004, 12:30 AM
off topic... what does FWIW stand for?

Knizzle
Jan 9th, 2004, 12:32 AM
off topic... what does FWIW stand for?

i'M GUESSING IT'S

fOR
wHAT
IT'S
wORTH

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 9th, 2004, 12:32 AM
For What It's Worth

decemberlove
Jan 9th, 2004, 12:33 AM
thanks you two :)

King Satan
Jan 9th, 2004, 12:34 AM
i love that song! :dance:

Knizzle
Jan 9th, 2004, 12:43 AM
We're not talking about whether they look anorexic. They don't. Even Kate Moss does no look anorexic. She has actually has plenty of meat on her bones if you go and find some nude pics of her on the net, but a very slim build. For an ordinary girl to try to become as thin as her without having her genes is going to do her a fair bit of damage.

We're talking about whether the media are creating an impossible standard of beauty. If you think that the women who are held up as beautiful don't come within a very narrow range then I think you're an example of what we're talking about - people losing track of what real women, even very pretty ones, look like.

I have no problem with Kate Moss providing one standard of beauty in our culture. I actually think she is gorgeous. :hearts: The problem is when something like that is the only standard. The enhanced images of people like Beyonce are pretty much as impossible.

In white America super skinny women=beautiful, but it's not the majority in black culture. Curves and hips and big booties and thick thighs are praised. It's sort of funny that some in this thread say that Beyonce and J-Lo make people feel insecure, but they are the same ones who make fun of and ridicule Serena Williams for having a big booty.

Hypocrites, gotta love em!! :rolleyes:

Sam L
Jan 9th, 2004, 12:49 AM
In white America super skinny women=beautiful, but it's not the majority in black culture. Curves and hips and big booties and thick thighs are praised. It's sort of funny that some in this thread say that Beyonce and J-Lo make people feel insecure, but they are the same ones who make fun of and ridicule Serena Williams for having a big booty.

Hypocrites, gotta love em!! :rolleyes:
Well I am not one of them. And people like Venus and Serena should be role models for young girls. Because they're not skinny, they're fit, athletic and smart. They didn't get to where they are in their life by sleeping with others. Like Beyonce *cough* J-Lo *cough*.

It sad when people like V&S are getting less publicity than people like Beyonce. It's wrong and it needs to stop.

Knizzle
Jan 9th, 2004, 12:55 AM
Well I am not one of them. And people like Venus and Serena should be role models for young girls. Because they're not skinny, they're fit, athletic and smart. They didn't get to where they are in their life by sleeping with others. Like Beyonce *cough* J-Lo *cough*.

It sad when people like V&S are getting less publicity than people like Beyonce. It's wrong and it needs to stop.

I wasn't directing that at you just for the record. How do you figure Beyonce got somewhere by sleeping with someone?? I know J-Lo may have used a couple people(i.e. Puffy), but as far as sleeping with someone just to get ahead, you don't know that for sure, actually you don't know it at all. Where did you get the idea that they were sleeping with men to get ahead?? Once again J-Lo and beyonce are not skinny. Beyonce isn't even in good shape.

decemberlove
Jan 9th, 2004, 12:58 AM
beyonce isnt even in good shape??
HELLO.

have you SEEN her lately?

girl is ripped.

anyway, joui's post is godly. it says it all, really.

Cariaoke
Jan 9th, 2004, 01:08 AM
the leopard has cool spots.

Beyonce is in unrealistic shape. I liked her when she ate Popeye's. I think that says it all. :)

decemberlove
Jan 9th, 2004, 01:09 AM
lol, me too. her stomach is so ripped now it kinda scares me.

Knizzle
Jan 9th, 2004, 01:10 AM
the leopard has cool spots.

Beyonce is in unrealistic shape. I liked her when she ate Popeye's. I think that says it all. :)

Damn she must have had a big transformation then. I'm not saying she was in bad shape, but she pales in comparison to J-Lo as far as fitness goes. For that matter her DC badnmates both always had 6 packs while Bee only had 4, but Beyonce is till the sexiest out of them though. Someone provide a pic of Beyonce. I want to see this rippedness!! LOL

Rocketta
Jan 9th, 2004, 01:12 AM
Isn't there a difference between what magazines portray with the air brushing and when an entertainer works her butt off to get in the best possible shape of her life? Yes, we mortals will never achieve it cause one we have to work and two we can't afford the personal trainer. I mean it is possible with hard work which means its not unrealistic. Now when a magazine makes someone's thighs completely smaller than they naturally are then yes I think that is bad bad bad. For example what that magazine did to Kate Winslet's thighs that was some males idea for sure..:rolleyes:

Cariaoke
Jan 9th, 2004, 01:14 AM
right, Rocke. It's not unrealistic if you have money but if you don't, it's unrealistic.

airbrushing is wrong but you'd think most people would realize that everything is photoshopped.

Rocketta
Jan 9th, 2004, 01:19 AM
right, Rocke. It's not unrealistic if you have money but if you don't, it's unrealistic.
Yes but unfortunately that's alot of things in life.....:sad:


airbrushing is wrong but you'd think most people would realize that everything is photoshopped.
You would think most people would realize it? :(

Cariaoke
Jan 9th, 2004, 01:29 AM
people are gullible but there is no excuse for George Bushtic comprehension. :tape: :lol:

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 9th, 2004, 01:47 AM
Yeah but you respond to those airbrushed etc images at a kind of subliminal level, no matter how well you understand intellectually what's going on.

Cariaoke
Jan 9th, 2004, 01:49 AM
yes, over time you do. i respond to them negatively because I know what they're trying to do. I sound like a conspiracy theorist.

Rocketta
Jan 9th, 2004, 01:57 AM
yes, over time you do. i respond to them negatively because I know what they're trying to do. I sound like a conspiracy theorist.
Crack is Wack!! :tape:

;)

:kiss:

Cariaoke
Jan 9th, 2004, 02:03 AM
Crack is Wack!! :tape:

;)

:kiss:
*playing hopskotch with Marilyn Monroe*

Do you have the receipts?!?

:haha: xinfinity squared.

SJW
Jan 9th, 2004, 10:07 AM
beyonce has lost a LOT of weight. never really considered her thick to being with. sure, they arent model skinny, but that doesnt mean they arent skinny!

j.lo is something like a size 6. which is definitely pretty skinny. beyonce is prolly smaller than that has she has always appeared thinner in the booty and the thighs than j.lo.

guess it all depends on your perception. still size 6 and under is thin...

i know American sizes and English sizes are different...but even after the translation, there is no way JLO is a size 6

SJW
Jan 9th, 2004, 10:16 AM
i don't think there's anything wrong with JLOs or Beyoncés bodies. in fact, it's nice to know that big assed women can be considered sexy, instead of having to look like Daniela.

i mean, look at Beyoncés thighs...where do you get off calling her skinny? i must be missing something.

i think they're positive if anything...and i don't even like JLO. it's good to know you don't have to be 5'11 and 110 lbs to be considered beautiful :kiss:

Sam L
Jan 9th, 2004, 12:33 PM
i don't think there's anything wrong with JLOs or Beyoncés bodies. in fact, it's nice to know that big assed women can be considered sexy, instead of having to look like Daniela.

i mean, look at Beyoncés thighs...where do you get off calling her skinny? i must be missing something.

i think they're positive if anything...and i don't even like JLO. it's good to know you don't have to be 5'11 and 110 lbs to be considered beautiful :kiss:
Yeah but they're very thin and are portraying impossible images for young girls to attain. Did you not read the article? And normal women don't have their bodies, please!

What's worse? They're out there flaunting it on a stage when they're supposed to be singing. Terrible role models. :o

SJW
Jan 9th, 2004, 01:40 PM
Yeah but they're very thin and are portraying impossible images for young girls to attain. Did you not read the article? And normal women don't have their bodies, please!

What's worse? They're out there flaunting it on a stage when they're supposed to be singing. Terrible role models. :o
yea i read the article. i wouldn't be commenting if i hadn't :)

and what's normal? so everyone who has a big ass, thick thighs, but a flat stomach isn't normal? :scratch: well i've never liked being the norm anyway...

people who are overweight are ALWAYS made to feel bad...but you're not much different saying if you look like Beyonce and JLO, you're very thin, with an impossible image. how do you think that makes people with similar figures feel? young girls have enough to be insecure about without being told that basically any body shape they attain is not good. right.

again, what do normal women look like? :) i don't understand. and why is being anything but YOUR definition of normal a bad thing? your nickname must be "media".

they're not supposed to be doing anything. they're entertainers. and people get entertained. they are not prostitutes or anything...the only negative thing i can see between them is JLO making it look like it's ok to marry 10 million different people. did you know Beyonce was actually picked on throughout school? i guess not.

so again, tell me whats "normal", and maybe i'll understand your crazy obsession.

Greenout
Jan 9th, 2004, 01:56 PM
How is J-lo ruining the lives of teenage girls? I thought she
was sort of a "good" role model for body type. J-Lo isn't that
skinny, and her big booty is sort of against the skinny butt
Kate Moss trend of the 1990's. I personally don't see
Beyonce as some evil pied piperess luring little girls over
a cliff either. It's not like these two were big with 9 year
olds from the get go. Neither started out in the Mickey Mouse
Club and I doubt alot of kids even remember J-Lo's great
acting in "out of site", a film that really started her media career.

Now...Britney and Christina are bad influences. They've had huge
pre-teen followings and dragged them along into their slutty new
images all in the name of "being free", "being me", and "being adult"
when all they're doing is trying to sell more records by using and
selling sex.

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 9th, 2004, 11:07 PM
Another rather repetitive thread, by now. I have no interest in any of these particular women's music, and I find their songs more or less indistinguishable. Popular music pretty much died for me with Kurt Cobain. The only current female singer whom I care about is PJ Harvey.

My point is just that we are inundated with images of women with beautiful but genetically, um, unusual body shapes - made even moreso by the routine use of plastic surgery, airbrushing, etc. Of course someone who looks like that doesn't need to feel ashamed. Of course the women and the images of them really are beautiful. Of course they are entitled to use their beauty to pursue their careers.

But the routine use of plastic surgery on women (not necessarily these particular women whom Sam dislikes so much) who are already beautiful within a narrow definition, followed by airbrushing of the images, all adds up to an impossible standard. No wonder many pretty teenage girls imagine that they are ugly, when that is the standard they feel they are being compared with.

I couldn't give a stuff whether they get their clothes off, or who they have sex with or whatever. Good for them for not accepting some ridiculous 1950s standard of "morality". I'd be happy if the only change was that the image-makers presented them in a more realistic way, not airbrushing them to remove every tiny flaw, make their legs look even longer, etc.

King Satan
Jan 9th, 2004, 11:08 PM
lol you guys waste so much time with these long posts in here. you ppl have said the same thing a thousand times over already! lol

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 9th, 2004, 11:11 PM
^How's your attention deficit disorder today, joe? :p

decemberlove
Jan 9th, 2004, 11:21 PM
i know American sizes and English sizes are different...but even after the translation, there is no way JLO is a size 6
shes a lil girl. im sure she has her pants tailored [i know for damn sure when she wears her own line its definitely tailored cos her jeans are made for nobootyhaving girls]. but im pretty sure it was an article where she said she was a size 6, which is big for hollywood. most of those women are size 0 or 2.

King Satan
Jan 9th, 2004, 11:23 PM
^How's your attention deficit disorder today, joe? :p
not so good! :( i can't stay focused on my fucking guitar playing!

SJW
Jan 9th, 2004, 11:25 PM
shes a lil girl. im sure she has her pants tailored [i know for damn sure when she wears her own line its definitely tailored cos her jeans are made for nobootyhaving girls]. but im pretty sure it was an article where she said she was a size 6, which is big for hollywood. most of those women are size 0 or 2.in a newspaper here it said she was a UK size 12 which is like an American 10 i think.......8 at the minimum

i actually believe she's a UK 12. :) you have seen the size of her rear right?

Sam L
Apr 4th, 2004, 01:16 AM
Beyonce takes it all off

Beyonce strips down ... all the way down ... in her latest video, for the song "Naughty Girl." The God-fearing Destiny's Child frontwoman writhes around for a few minutes in a skimpy, figure-hugging dress before peeling it off behind a dressing screen to reveal a silhouette that leaves just about nothing to the imagination.

Source: http://www.sfexaminer.com/article/index.cfm/i/040104c_scoop

This is embarassing, and such a terrible influence on our young girls. Is she encouraging our daughters to be strippers? Tell them that that is the place for a women in our society? To dress skimpily and dance to music? :mad:

CC
Apr 4th, 2004, 05:16 AM
She's coming out

Kelly Osbourne was spotted scarfing down a burger and fries at a greasy spoon in L.A. wearing what appeared to be a slinky slip dress, which eyewitnesses say the big-chested rock offspring was practically bursting out of.




This is so mean. :o