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A4
Dec 29th, 2003, 07:22 AM
I would have thought with all her problems, Israel wouldn't care who sleeps with who? :confused:


http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1072178838039&call_pageid=968332188774&col=968705899037


Dec. 23, 2003. 02:18 PM

Avoid Israeli women, foreign workers told


FROM ASSOCIATED PRESS

JERUSALEM — An Israeli company has required thousands of Chinese workers to sign a contract promising not to have sex with Israelis or try to convert them, a police spokesperson said today.

According to the document, male workers cannot come into contact with Israeli women — including prostitutes — become their lovers or marry them, spokesperson Rafi Yaffe said. He said there was nothing illegal about the requirement and no investigation had been opened against the company.

The labourers are also forbidden in the contract from engaging in any religious or political activity. Those who violate the agreement will be sent back to China at their own expense.

About 260,000 foreigners work in Israel, having replaced Palestinian labourers during three years of fighting. When the government first began to allow the entrance of the foreign workers in the late 1990s, ministers warned of a "social time bomb" caused by workers assimilating with Israelis.

More than half the workers are in the country illegally. Israeli police have increased efforts to deport those working without permits in light of high Israeli unemployment, which has reached 11 per cent in recent months.

Israeli advocates of foreign workers — who come also from Thailand, the Philippines and Romania — say they are held by employers in nearly slave-like conditions and their bosses frequently take their passports and refuse to pay them.

A spokesperson for the Labour and Social Affairs Ministry did not return calls requesting comment.





2) http://www.breakingnews.ie/2003/07/31/story108153.html

Israelies accused of racism over marriage law
31/07/2003 - 4:39:57 pm

The Israeli parliament today passed a new law to force Palestinians who marry Israelis to live separate lives or move out of of the country.

Human rights groups and Israeli Arabs described the law as racist.

The law would prevent Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza Strip who marry Israeli Arabs from obtaining residency permits in Israel.

The vote was 53 in favour, 25 against and one abstention, a spokeswoman for the parliament said.

“We see this law as the implementation of the transfer policy by the state of Israel,” said Jafar Savah from Mossawa, an advocacy centre for Israeli Arabs, referring to a plan by far right groups to transfer Israeli Arabs to other Arab countries.

Savah said the law was an attempt to legalise unofficial policy that has been in effect since September 2000 when violence broke out and warned that the law would damage relations between Israel and its Arab minority.

Both local and international human rights groups have condemned the law as racist.

“This is a racist law that decides who can live here according to racist criteria,” said Yael Stein from the Israeli rights group B’tselem.

Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International sent letters to the parliament protesting the law and urging MPs not to pass it, a statement from Human Rights Watch said.

Israel’s government contends that such a law is necessary for security reasons, citing instances where Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza have exploited their residency permits, granting them freedom of movement in Israel, to carry out terror attacks.

“This law comes to address a security issue,” said Cabinet Minister Gideon Ezra. “Since September 2000 we have seen a significant connection, in terror attacks, between Arabs from the West Bank and Gaza and Israeli Arabs,” Ezra said.

The law forces newly married couples to choose between living in the Palestinian areas or living separately and would be in effect for a year when the parliament must renew it.

It is not uncommon for members of Israel’s one million strong Arab community to marry residents of the Palestinian areas, and this was one of the only ways a Palestinian could be eligible for an Israeli residency permit.

Ezra told the radio that since 1993 over 100,000 Palestinians have obtained Israeli permits in this manner. ”It has grown out of control,” he said.

Stein from B’tselem said there have been only 20 cases from these 100,000 people who have been involved in terror.

“I am not taking these attacks lightly but this is an extreme solution to a marginal phenomenon,” Stein said.

Ezra turned aside charges that the law was racist, saying ”I agree that anyone who kills Jews just because they are Jewish is a racist.”

i-girl
Dec 29th, 2003, 08:40 AM
this contract is illegal. it could never stand in an israeli court of law. the logic of it is quite clear, though. they pay Israeli women to marry them so that they can stay here. that's what the contract is aiming at, but it's method is void.
the "engaging in any religious activity" part, also clearly illegal under Israeli law, is aimed at stopping a nasty habit of asian workers- killing and eatting dogs. they've always done it, and have now learned a new way- they say they kill and eat dogs for "religious purposes". people here are getting a bit impatient because their beloved pets keep disappearing.
I actually volunteered for a while for an Israeli human rights group that provides free legal services (I'm a lawyer) for foreign workers, but stopped, because the vast majority of people turning to us were thieves or liers. they were the ones mistreating others rather than being mistreated themselves.

~ The Leopard ~
Dec 29th, 2003, 09:04 AM
At least they don't eat cats.

Lord Chips
Dec 29th, 2003, 09:13 AM
What may seem strange to some people is in fact quite sensible to others who know the full story behind it, espeically when Israel is concerned as if theres a chance the country will be seen in a bad light the media won't go out of their way to explain.

It sucks!

A4
Dec 29th, 2003, 09:59 AM
this contract is illegal. it could never stand in an israeli court of law. the logic of it is quite clear, though. they pay Israeli women to marry them so that they can stay here. that's what the contract is aiming at, but it's method is void.
the "engaging in any religious activity" part, also clearly illegal under Israeli law, is aimed at stopping a nasty habit of asian workers- killing and eatting dogs. they've always done it, and have now learned a new way- they say they kill and eat dogs for "religious purposes". people here are getting a bit impatient because their beloved pets keep disappearing.
I actually volunteered for a while for an Israeli human rights group that provides free legal services (I'm a lawyer) for foreign workers, but stopped, because the vast majority of people turning to us were thieves or liers. they were the ones mistreating others rather than being mistreated themselves.


Hey i-girl. Thanks for the reply. So why not just bar the Chinese from marraige rather than "......thousands of Chinese workers to sign a contract promising not to have sex with Israelis ......."

And another thing. You're honestly saying these workers steal people's pets to eat them? That they cannot find other sources of meat in Israel except people's pet dogs and will risk everything to steal dogs just so they could eat some dog meat? Wow. Incredible. It seems so much at odds with human nature somehow, that a person will probably save thousands of dollars, travel to a richer country in order to make a better living and with all the opportunities to create a new life, risk it all for the sake of stealing some dog meat, never mind there being loads of other meat sources available. Strangely, I find that funnier than the contract itself, but hey, I've never been to Israel so I'll take your word for it absolutely. There must be something in the air, or probably the water that leads to this insatiable craving to eat people's dogs.

Lord Chips
Dec 29th, 2003, 10:12 AM
Hey i-girl. Thanks for the reply. So why not just bar the Chinese from marraige rather than "......thousands of Chinese workers to sign a contract promising not to have sex with Israelis ......."I don't know if Israel is one of these countries but many nations have a policy where you can stay there if you father a child born in that country where the mother is a citizen of that nation

A4
Dec 29th, 2003, 10:26 AM
Hmmmm, so no sex for you otherwise, you might remain here. Let's get you in, get what we need out of you and then get you out as soon as we don't want you anymore making sure we sever anything that might lead to you remaining here in the long-term.
Strange. Hell, even the Japanese and Chinese, with their extremely high population densities will not ask that foriegn workers not have sex with their women. Strange, especially for Israel, which is seen as pretty Western.

starr
Dec 29th, 2003, 02:49 PM
lol A4.

Chinese are always being accused of eating pet dogs. Asian immigrants in general are rumored to do this. I remember living in a neighborhood and being warned about evil asians stealing dogs to eat them.

Of course, immigrants in the U.S. pay people to marry them too. It's an illegal way to gain residence. If they are found out they are deported. I don't remember any laws prohibiting aliens from having sex with U.S. citizens.

Also I would like to know if it is ok for these Chinese workers to have sex with Israeli men. Can the Chinese men take out their sexual urges on Israeli men?

Experimentee
Dec 29th, 2003, 03:01 PM
Chinese people dont eat dogs, that is Koreans.

starr
Dec 29th, 2003, 03:11 PM
My point being that people can always find some reason for hatred or dislike of minorites.

I don't think that anyone was actually stealing pet animals and eating them. It was just a rumor born out of fear and ignorance.

I had a acquaintance who hated Arabs. She said horrible things about them. Called them pigs. When I asked her not to say things like that arround me, she justified herself by saying that she, and not I, had been to the Arab quarter in Jerusalem and it smelled awful and the people smelled awful and that she was rightfully calling them pigs. She considered them somewhat subhuman.

So people just latch on to to reasons to believe what they want to believe anyway.

Kiwi_Boy
Dec 29th, 2003, 08:49 PM
"Chinese people dont eat dogs, that is Koreans"

well actually no, In Hong Kong (on a train back from mainland china) one of my teachers met a rather interesting lady...who had in her bag "dog...woof woof yummy". an actual whole dead dog destined for Hong Kongs resturants. Plus there was a thing on 60 minutes (the australian one,experimente) a few years ago that showed the dog meat trade in china. Korea also does it.
As for stealing dogs, well here we have a HUGE chinese population (infact more than our own indigineous people the maoris) and we dont hear stories of dog-napping...but there are a fewasian "triad" style gangs arising now.

As for the first issue, I can see how it makes sense
but i dont agree with it in pricipal, especially the religous freedom part.
As for the part about sex, in China isnt it still illegal for foreigners to have any sexual relations with chinese citizens? Their police actually enforce this (or at least they did until very recently)

The marrige law make sense as it is stopping a common problem, and in no circumstances do i agree with "a marrige of convenience". But then again theres always the possiblitiy of a real and meaningful marrage occuring....

I am also appauled about employers keeping their employees in such conditions. Unacceptable in any country...yet nothing new.

*JR*
Dec 29th, 2003, 09:15 PM
...that foriegn workers not have sex with their women.
So someone by happenstance hit the key words "their women" thus catching the sexism also involved. I'm sure there are many foreign female maids in Israel, but presumably the men can screw them @ will, with even rape probably going unpunished.

(And not just in Israel, the same double standard exists in wealthy Arab countries like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait). Or like the American slavemasters did back when. How in, er, the hell do women put up with the world's major religions treating them as second-class citizens? :rolleyes:

starr
Dec 30th, 2003, 01:34 AM
Well, I don't. :)

i-girl
Dec 30th, 2003, 09:13 AM
"So why not just bar the Chinese from marraige rather than "......thousands of Chinese workers to sign a contract promising not to have sex with Israelis ......."

because it's against the law to do that. if the Knesset (the law making body) would create such a law, the supreme court would overturn it. a law like that would violate Israel's "basic laws" (the Israeli version of a constitution) and would be void. a contract which includes a restriction on sex or marriage will also, in all likelyhood, be void, but a person would have to challenge it in court to have it declared void, which foreign workers are unlikely to do. I know, though, that the Israeli workers' rights group is working to have this type of contract declared void in advance (a bit treaky).

about the dogs. yes, they eat dogs. in China, so it was explained to me by some of the workers I represented, "if it moves, you eat it". it's not that they can't get any other meet, it's that they are used to eatting dogs, and can't understand that in Israel dogs are absolutely not a source of food, and that people are horrified at the thought of eatting dogs. it's all a matter of perception, I guess. as a Jew, I find sea food revolting, whereas Christians think it's a luxury food:). but it's become a real problem here because people have developed a resentment against asian workers as a result of this, a resentment which didn't exist before.

~ The Leopard ~
Dec 30th, 2003, 09:43 AM
*Offers Noga some oysters and watches her run away. :bolt: *

i-girl
Dec 30th, 2003, 12:29 PM
I won't run away from you, not even if you're holding an oyster:kiss:
I'll be gone now for a few days, but I think I'm close to getting a terrific new job and leaving my current "no time to breath" job, so I could finally be coming back here on a regular basis. cross your fingers for me:)!

hey_britney
Dec 30th, 2003, 01:05 PM
The Sharon government is really not a good thing for Israel. I think in the long run they will do more harm than good to the inevitable peace process. They are so extreme ... Bush must love him. ;)

Experimentee
Dec 30th, 2003, 01:36 PM
Some people may eat dogs in China and Korea, but they are a minority. Its definitely not a common part of the local cuisine, but lots of people have misconceptions and think Asians eat dogs everyday or something like that. Just because there was one person on a train doing it doesnt mean that everyone does, and I've been to Asia many times and I know they prefer to eat other types of meat.

starr
Dec 30th, 2003, 02:59 PM
"So why not just bar the Chinese from marraige rather than "......thousands of Chinese workers to sign a contract promising not to have sex with Israelis ......."

because it's against the law to do that. if the Knesset (the law making body) would create such a law, the supreme court would overturn it. a law like that would violate Israel's "basic laws" (the Israeli version of a constitution) and would be void. a contract which includes a restriction on sex or marriage will also, in all likelyhood, be void, but a person would have to challenge it in court to have it declared void, which foreign workers are unlikely to do. I know, though, that the Israeli workers' rights group is working to have this type of contract declared void in advance (a bit treaky).

about the dogs. yes, they eat dogs. in China, so it was explained to me by some of the workers I represented, "if it moves, you eat it". it's not that they can't get any other meet, it's that they are used to eatting dogs, and can't understand that in Israel dogs are absolutely not a source of food, and that people are horrified at the thought of eatting dogs. it's all a matter of perception, I guess. as a Jew, I find sea food revolting, whereas Christians think it's a luxury food:). but it's become a real problem here because people have developed a resentment against asian workers as a result of this, a resentment which didn't exist before.

I sincerely doubt that this practice is as wide spread as Israeli's would like to believe. As I said, this is a rumor in many places, but unless you can document that it has happened on more than a rare occasion, I think it is a reason that people have latched onto in order to justify their predjudices. When you say it is a real problem, you ought to be able to document it. The people who told me that Asians were stealing pet animals to eat also thought they were telling me the truth even though it was just a rumor.

It seems a little ridiculous to be able to import workers to do work when there is unemployment among Israelis but that is the same problem we have with illegal aliens here in the United States. There are employers who need to have cheaper labor and a level of employee that they can exploit.

The whole contract is degrading. I will take you at your word if you say that the majority of Israeli's would be shocked to learn that such contracts existed.

*JR*
Dec 30th, 2003, 05:20 PM
It seems a little ridiculous to be able to import workers to do work when there is unemployment among Israelis but that is the same problem we have with illegal aliens here in the United States. There are employers who need to have cheaper labor and a level of employee that they can exploit.
:worship: (BTW, more comments, please, on how major religions in general treat women as chattel)?

decemberlove
Dec 30th, 2003, 05:42 PM
At least they don't eat cats.

or go out in the back to pick what doggie they would like to have for dinner.

A4
Dec 30th, 2003, 09:50 PM
"Chinese people dont eat dogs, that is Koreans"

well actually no, In Hong Kong (on a train back from mainland china) one of my teachers met a rather interesting lady...who had in her bag "dog...woof woof yummy". an actual whole dead dog destined for Hong Kongs resturants. Plus there was a thing on 60 minutes (the australian one,experimente) a few years ago that showed the dog meat trade in china. Korea also does it.
As for stealing dogs, well here we have a HUGE chinese population (infact more than our own indigineous people the maoris) and we dont hear stories of dog-napping...but there are a fewasian "triad" style gangs arising now.

As for the first issue, I can see how it makes sense
but i dont agree with it in pricipal, especially the religous freedom part.
As for the part about sex, in China isnt it still illegal for foreigners to have any sexual relations with chinese citizens? Their police actually enforce this (or at least they did until very recently)

The marrige law make sense as it is stopping a common problem, and in no circumstances do i agree with "a marrige of convenience". But then again theres always the possiblitiy of a real and meaningful marrage occuring....

I am also appauled about employers keeping their employees in such conditions. Unacceptable in any country...yet nothing new.


They actually did that in China too? Really?

As to the marraige of convenience, sure you may not agree with it but people marry for so many reasons other than love. How do you feel about beautiful young women marrying rich old guys? Or marrying a rich person in general regardless of sex? Is it okay because they are all from the same country? And how about all these mail-order brides? Is it for love?

Kiwi_Boy
Dec 30th, 2003, 10:25 PM
I actually feel sickened by "beautiful young women marrying rich old guys", A4....its a marrige of convenience and as I said I dont agree with any marrige of convenience...call me old fashioned