PDA

View Full Version : Who do you like more? Clijsters or Henin-Hardenne?


Pages : [1] 2

Mister B
Dec 5th, 2003, 10:04 PM
OK here's the third "who do you like more" poll after Graf VS Seles and Hingis VS Davenport! Kim Clijsters or Justine Henin-Hardenne? My vote goes to Kimmy:)!

Roxers
Dec 5th, 2003, 10:05 PM
Kim all the way :)

XaDavK_Kapri
Dec 5th, 2003, 10:06 PM
Kim, of course.

Crazy_Fool
Dec 5th, 2003, 10:16 PM
justine!!!! class to watch and has a big heart. a great story as well.

bandabou
Dec 5th, 2003, 10:24 PM
I love Justineīs game, but the last couple of times her competitive edge has been a bit TOOO much.

People say that the sisters always blame injuries for their losses, but thereīs the opposite too..and that is Justine.

Justineīs always saying: Iīm on crutches, I canīt breath, Iīm death....then starts running faster after that.

minboy
Dec 5th, 2003, 10:29 PM
I love Justineīs game, but the last couple of times her competitive edge has been a bit TOOO much.

People say that the sisters always blame injuries for their losses, but thereīs the opposite too..and that is Justine.

Justineīs always saying: Iīm on crutches, I canīt breath, Iīm death....then starts running faster after that.

justine doesn' t always say : i'm on crutches, i can't breathe. Jounalists do it for her, because when they meet someone who's ill, who's coughing and looking pale( masters 2003 ), they notice it.

i know that your favourite hobby is to take kim and justine down( i mean, EVERYONE noticed it already ), but sometimes facing the truth doesn't hurt that much

*JR*
Dec 5th, 2003, 10:34 PM
JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ

bandabou
Dec 5th, 2003, 10:38 PM
justine doesn' t always say : i'm on crutches, i can't breathe. Jounalists do it for her, because when they meet someone who's ill, who's coughing and looking pale( masters 2003 ), they notice it.

i know that your favourite hobby is to take kim and justine down( i mean, EVERYONE noticed it already ), but sometimes facing the truth doesn't hurt that much

I like to bring Justine and Kim down, huh?!

well hereīs the article:

Taken form tennis-ontheline.com:

Match 3: Justine Henin-Hardenne def. Anastasia Myskina 7-5, 5-7, 7-5.
Just when the evening looked to end at a reasonable hour, Henin-Hardenne and Myskina took the court and provided the drama of the evening. Spectators were stunned as Myskina dominated a slightly off-form #2 Henin-Hardenne and raced to a shocking 5-0 lead in the first set.

But then Henin-Hardenne made a move that should not surprise anyone who has followed the Belgian and her recent controversies. With Steffi Graf-like regularity, Henin-Hardenne has developed a tacky habit of announcing and dwelling on a myriad of injuries, illnesses and other assorted excuses.

Incredibly, Henin-Hardenne managed to announce a back injury 2 months before the upcoming Fed Cup finals. She made it clear then that while she would be able to fulfill her tournament schedule, she expected to be injured by the time Fed Cup would be contested.

Earlier today, word was circulated to media that Henin-Hardenne would bravely compete, despite a sudden “respiratory” issue that reportedly necessitated antibiotics.

And when she found herself down and out, Justine Henin-Hardenne naturally called an illness time out. Her trainer assisted her with an extraordinarily long treatment time (complete with blood pressure apparatus and stethoscope to spotlight the drama).

The tactic worked. Myskina cooled down as Justine Henin-Hardenne suddenly rediscovered her brilliant backhand, amazing all-court coverage and admirable resilience. Myskina crumbled and stood caught in her tracks like a deer in the headlights as Justine Henin-Hardenne trapped her time after time with audacious drop shots and breathtaking passing shots.

Rallying to take 7 consecutive games and the first set, the Belgian was poised to take complete control of the match as Myskina wilted in disappointment.

But a second wind and a few clever drop shots of her own and Myskina climbed back in, finally taking the second set (and a standing ovation) by the same score as she had lost the first.

Through much of the third set, both players competed at a very high level and most points were won rather than lost. And again, Myskina had her chances.

Leading 5-5 and 40-15, the Russian was unable to hold serve and just at the stroke of midnight Justine Henin-Hardenne closed in on a sparkling 7-5, 5-7, 7-5 victory (and yet another standing ovation).

A certain irony would ensue that turns into a reminder that one must not always believe what one reads. Several noted, prominent tennis writers were seen laughing at Henin-Hardenne’s suspect time-out. Later, the same journalists pleaded desperately with WTA staff to rush Justine into her media conference so that they could make their late night deadlines and because they had promised each other that they would grill Henin-Hardenne about the illness that they were so vocally doubting.

When Henin-Hardenne was presented to the media, she was not asked one difficult or controversial question. Her claims of a sinus attack and accelerated heartbeat were accepted at face value.

Those same reporters who cynically and very vocally blasted her behind her back and away from the ears of WTA staffers then printed stories this morning praising Justine Henin-Hardenne using terms like “bravery” and “heroic”. One of these same writers also deliberately changed the attendance figure provided by tour officials without any evidence that it was wrong. Another made up a quote in order to fill space.

Mmmm … could these be the very same “journalists” who have been covering the Bush administration?

Ooops, did I say that in my out-loud voice?


So is it just me or are other people thinking the same?!

Crazy_Fool
Dec 5th, 2003, 10:40 PM
whatever. at the masters it was obvious justine was ill. the no1 player in the world is not gonna be losing 5-0 to myskina at any big tournament. its just an excuse to hate on justine and i'm sick of hearing about it.

bandabou
Dec 5th, 2003, 10:45 PM
But then again Justine isnīt an ordinary no.1..

Kart
Dec 5th, 2003, 10:46 PM
Kim

minboy
Dec 5th, 2003, 10:49 PM
there are haters everywhere.....the netherlands, the US, ....

if u can actually read you can notice that this "journalist" ( do i dare to even call him/her a journalist ) has made up her / his opinion even before the match

there was a thread about that specific kind of journalists some time ago( don'"t know if it was in GM or justintime ), with a link to an an article ( from a real journalist ) stating the proof that this kind of journalists already made their minds ezen before actually seeing the match.All i can do is suggesting u to read that article. Since you spend your DAYS on this board, checking for that thread wouldn't be a loss of time!!!

bandabou
Dec 5th, 2003, 10:57 PM
Listen wimpboy,what do YOU know about my days?! Because as far I can remember you donīt know me and I CERTAINLY donīt know you....so what makes you think that you know how I spend my days?! And EVEN f you did know me, it ainīt NONE of your business either how I spend my days.

If you think Justine is a saint?! Fine....I just happen to think that some of her behaviour was/is questionable....even moreso when her OWN coach comes out and says so. You donīt agree with me?! Fine..

minboy
Dec 5th, 2003, 11:04 PM
Listen wimpboy,what do YOU know about my days?! Because as far I can remember you donīt know me and I CERTAINLY donīt know you....so what makes you think that you know how I spend my days?! And EVEN f you did know me, it ainīt NONE of your business either how I spend my days.

If you think Justine is a saint?! Fine....I just happen to think that some of her behaviour was/is questionable....even moreso when her OWN coach comes out and says so. You donīt agree with me?! Fine..


well, you've post nearly 6000posts since april!!! that seems a lot to me!! ( in a year an a half, i only managed to post 400! )

and, no, i don't think justine is a saint, far from it, she makes mystakes Sometimes, she's just being human, and that's one of the reason i like her!

is responding to the point i've made in my post really that hard?

bandabou
Dec 5th, 2003, 11:23 PM
Donīt come play the mr wise-guy/girl here! You were TRYING to make two points in your post:
That there are haters everywhere.
That I spend my days on this board.

So donīt come with the: was it that difficult blah blah.

And I already told you it ainīt NONE of your business how often I post or not.

TennisHack
Dec 5th, 2003, 11:31 PM
Kim :)

*JR*
Dec 5th, 2003, 11:32 PM
The bottom line is they both had overbearing fathers. Juju (even having lost her mother) :sad: gave her's the boot. Kim became her father's willing accomplice in the Ongoing Elke WC Shakedown "Racket with a k". (For Kim, no doubt)!

minboy
Dec 5th, 2003, 11:32 PM
Donīt come play the mr wise-guy/girl here! You were TRYING to make two points in your post:
That there are haters everywhere.
That I spend my days on this board.

So donīt come with the: was it that difficult blah blah.

And I already told you it ainīt NONE of your business how often I post or not.
They were two points in my post:

1. haters are everywhere
2. you and the writer of that "article" are among them

and you're right, the time you spend on this board is not my business.

The only reason i pointed out the fact that you spent "a lot of time" ( is it ok? ) on this board( 6000 posts within so little time seems enough to me to sate so ), is that you "should" have enough time to check out for a specific thread . THat's "just" it

btw, u still don't have responded to my earlier post ( seems harder than i tought :lol: :lol: )

bandabou
Dec 5th, 2003, 11:45 PM
No it is not o.k.!

What point?! That people sometimes have already made their opinion before the actual incident even takes place?!

Yeah, of course. Just like everybody had their opinion made up at IW, even before Venus withdrew.

minboy
Dec 5th, 2003, 11:52 PM
why bring up the IW incident? do u think i agree with what happened there? certainly not! Those were not right ( far from it) to make up their mind before that 1/2. Just like "other" people are wrong to make up their minds about players before seeing them play .

( still waiting for your answer to my 2nd post )

Burberry
Dec 5th, 2003, 11:57 PM
Justine's tennis really captured my heart!!! :hearts:

Mikey
Dec 6th, 2003, 12:07 AM
Justine for me :D

Crazy Canuck
Dec 6th, 2003, 12:07 AM
JHH - I like her game far more than Clijsters (who I like to call the Golden Retriever, btw), and I enjoy a player with a little killer instinct. That isnt to say that Kim doesn't have any, but I'm more impressed with Henin's at this point. That said, I liked Justine back when she was a choking dog, so it really comes down to her game.

bandabou
Dec 6th, 2003, 12:22 AM
why bring up the IW incident? do u think i agree with what happened there? certainly not! Those were not right ( far from it) to make up their mind before that 1/2. Just like "other" people are wrong to make up their minds about players before seeing them play .

( still waiting for your answer to my 2nd post )

I didnīt know your opinion about IW, but it was just an example of what I thought was the point you were making.

What other point are you making?! I donīt know the thread you are refering too, so i canīt go read the article..if that is what you meant.

Mikey
Dec 6th, 2003, 12:23 AM
Will you two give it a rest? :rolleyes:

bandabou
Dec 6th, 2003, 12:26 AM
That Iīm a hater?! Nope, not really....I already said that I love Justineīs game better than kimīs. She takes risks, makes something happen.

Itīs her attitude/ sportsmanship that I have some problems with....RG comes to mind.

Mikey
Dec 6th, 2003, 12:29 AM
No, the argument. You are entitled to your opinion, but the fighting is just ridiculous :rolleyes:

Infiniti2001
Dec 6th, 2003, 12:38 AM
Kim

SJW
Dec 6th, 2003, 01:11 AM
Kimmy......again, no contest whatsoever.

kim4eva
Dec 6th, 2003, 01:20 AM
Kimmie for sure :hearts:

Knizzle
Dec 6th, 2003, 03:15 AM
Kim as a person
Justine as a tennis player

tennischick
Dec 6th, 2003, 03:26 AM
the Potatoette...;)

Rothes
Dec 6th, 2003, 03:32 AM
Bandabou It's time to take your patronising and monotonous views else where just give it a rest allready.

Justine All the way!

harloo
Dec 6th, 2003, 03:53 AM
Kim for sure. And I hope Kim wins a slam next year even if she beats my faves, and even though I will be bummed if she beat my faves I have respect for her. She will never put her integrity on the line to get a win. Justine on the other hand will do it in a heartbeat.

Now while people continue to say Kim does not have that "killer instinct" I think she has it, but not to the extent of the other top players. She will get wiser and learn how to compete in big matches. Kim is only 20.

As far as Henin-H is concerned, she has the trophies and that's great. But she has no substance. It's pretty sad to say so, but that's just the way I see it. Her actions have proven that she is driven to win by any means necessary. And her coach makes this very fact known every time he opens his mouth.

Alot of folks compare Henin to Hingis, however their is a big difference. Even though Hingis talked trash, you somehow felt it was just good competitive verbal jabs, also Hingis was a great sportswoman. With Henin you just feel that it's something different.

;)

Diya
Dec 6th, 2003, 03:55 AM
wow Henin makes even Hingis look good to the wily fans now :tape: Henin must be really good :o

Go Justine ! (even though i voted for Kim ;) )

Martian KC
Dec 6th, 2003, 03:55 AM
I'm sure substance is the reason to like a willie.

Anyways, Justine all the way!

harloo
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:03 AM
Substance is a reason to respect all players on the WTA whether you like or dislike them. It's unfortunate that H-H has none after her displays of poor sportsmanship.

Martian KC
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:04 AM
wow Henin makes even Hingis look good to the wily fans now :tape: Henin must be really good :o

Go Justine ! (even though i voted for Kim ;) )

Yeah, she's the only threat to them. :lol:

ĪCharlDaĪ
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:07 AM
I used to like Justine better, since I saw her play and she impressed me, but since she started winning titles she changed her attitude, while kim seems so friendly!

harloo
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:10 AM
wow Henin makes even Hingis look good to the wily fans now :tape: Henin must be really good :o

Go Justine ! (even though i voted for Kim ;) )


Willy fans? My opinion does not represent all Williams fans. Some Williams fans dislike Martina till this day(just like you hate the sisters lmao), while others feel she was good for the game.

I don't even know why I'm waisting my time explaining anything to you since you will never be cured of your mental illness. LMAO.

Diya get a clue! :lol:

Diya
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:12 AM
How do you "waist" time ? :confused:

Get a clue harloo ! (wow that rhymes ;))

Knizzle
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:13 AM
Willy fans? My opinion does not represent all Williams fans. Some Williams fans dislike Martina till this day(just like you hate the sisters lmao), while others feel she was good for the game.

I don't even know why I'm waisting my time explaining anything to you since you will never be cured of your mental illness. LMAO.

Diya get a clue! :lol:

Hingis wasn't preoccupied with the sisters like a certain someone. Hingis was like the WS in many ways.

VeNuS#1LoVa
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:13 AM
Neither...

Well, I don't know. I don't want Kim to win a slam, but I don't want Justine to get another, it depends. I like Justine's game more, and I used to be a fan....but...

Martian KC
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:13 AM
Willy fans? My opinion does not represent all Williams fans. Some Williams fans dislike Martina till this day(just like you hate the sisters lmao), while others feel she was good for the game.

I don't even know why I'm waisting my time explaining anything to you since you will never be cured of your mental illness. LMAO.

Diya get a clue! :lol:

LOL, that from someone that can't let RG incident go. :lol:

Knizzle
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:14 AM
Neither...

Well, I don't know. I don't want Kim to win a slam, but I don't want Justine to get another, it depends. I like Justine's game more, and I used to be a fan....but...

I used to be a fan also. I wish I could still be a fan but.........

harloo
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:16 AM
Yeah, she's the only threat to them. :lol:

Justine the only threat? Hmmmm...I don't think so. So now she is the only player who can beat a williams on ANY given day? Hmmm...well looks like you are wrong again. Since the H2H proves that Henin can only live with the Williams on clay I think that's where her chance will be. Otherwise it looks like she won't be so lucky.

:lol:

Diya
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:17 AM
....then she started beating the players that you"ll like and started winning slams and so you'll dislike her :tape:

Martian KC
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:17 AM
Willifans just state the truth. The only reason you don't like Justine anymore is for the fact that she's the biggest threat to the succession of the willies. *sigh* Stop hiding behind the facade one incident as if she's condemnded for life.

Venus Forever
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:17 AM
LOL, that from someone that can't let RG incident go. :lol:

How can you have respect for someone who obviously has no respect for anyone else??

Knizzle
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:18 AM
....then she started beating the players that you"ll like and started winning slams and so you'll dislike her :tape:

No, she lost me as a fan the minute she didn't admit to throwing her hand up and then her comments after the match and beyond.

bandabou
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:18 AM
See some people wanna act funny and stuff....saying stupid things. Iīm glad that it ainīt just me whoīs noticing things. You can love a players game but not her attitude...

Martian wanna say things like substance is the reason to love the Williams and stuff. You can say many things about the Williams, but Iīve never witnessed them doing anything like Justine did at RG and then come openly say they were proud of it.

But when you state that about Justine, itīs called hating.

Martian KC
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:19 AM
How can you have respect for someone who obviously has no respect for anyone else??

I'm sure the lockeroom is buzzing with friendship bracelets from the willies. Please, don't go parading around like the willies are the most respectable players.

Martian KC
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:21 AM
See some people wanna act funny and stuff....saying stupid things. Iīm glad that it ainīt just me whoīs noticing things. You can love a players game but not her attitude...

Martian wanna say things like substance is the reason to love the Williams and stuff. You can say many things about the Williams, but Iīve never witnessed them doing anything like Justine did at RG and then come openly say they were proud of it.

But when you state that about Justine, itīs called hating.

:confused: That made no sense whatsoever. Nice try.

harloo
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:22 AM
LOL, that from someone that can't let RG incident go. :lol:

Oh RG is over, however character was tested in that semifinals and regardless of how you down play the situation opinions were formed about H-H's sportsmanship.

Yes she won RG, and noone can take anything away from that fact. However what happened in that semifinal will be what folks will remember about RG 2003.

It's ok though, everything happens for a reason. It was unfortunate that it happened, but it did happen and just because ANYONE mentions it does not mean they are not over it.

Of course Justine fans would like it to go away which is understandable, but that's not reality.
:lol:

Diya
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:23 AM
All that matters is Serena lost and Justine went on to win the whole thing. All this *shit* about her not acting the way you'll wanted her to .....who cares ? Justine won RG ......some of you'll just gotta learn to live with that fact. All this bickering won't change a thing :tape:

Venus Forever
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:25 AM
I'm sure the lockeroom is buzzing with friendship bracelets from the willies. Please, don't go parading around like the willies are the most respectable players.

But they also don't go around lying just in order for them to win, and have a better chance of winning.

What Justine did was absolutely disgusting, and if any of my faves did that, I would definitely scold them for that. In fact, I was a HUGE Justine fan, and she lost me with one incident. It was terrible. She blatantly lied, and even justified her actions afterwards. I could never respect a player who does such things. My dislike for her wouldn't be so great if she even admitted she was wrong, but of course, she didn't do that.

Very similar to Pedro Martinez, what he did was just disgusting, and didn't even apologize, or justify his actions in any way.

Knizzle
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:26 AM
All that matters is Serena lost and Justine went on to win the whole thing. All this *shit* about her not acting the way you'll wanted her to .....who cares ? Justine won RG ......some of you'll just gotta learn to live with that fact. All this bickering won't change a thing :tape:Does her winning RG erase the fact that she was blatantly dishonest on the court??

bandabou
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:27 AM
Yep in the end all that matters is that Justine won...no problemo. But it is funny that it is Justine herself started accusing people of lying. Remember Zurich and Lindsay Davenport?!

Iīm sure these same fans were all over Lindsay back then too.

Martian KC
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:29 AM
WTF? It's been said countless times! Justine DID NOT LIE!

I still don't understand how serena can see Justine's hand, but served anyways and asked for a do over.:confused: Talk about unsportmanship and cheating.

harloo
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:34 AM
Willifans just state the truth. The only reason you don't like Justine anymore is for the fact that she's the biggest threat to the succession of the willies. *sigh* Stop hiding behind the facade one incident as if she's condemnded for life.

So now you think all Williams fans dislike Justine because she is the biggest threat on clay to the sisters?

OK. :rolleyes:

The sisters are not invincible, they can be vulnerable to a loss to anyone on a given day. They are great players, but not perfect.

Me personally, I don't like to see my faves to lose like anyone in any fan base, however I accept a loss as one. However what disturbed me was the willingness of Justine to put her integrity on the line to win that semifinal match. That's really what made the difference in my opinion of her. ;)

Venus Forever
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:36 AM
WTF? It's been said countless times! Justine DID NOT LIE!

I still don't understand how serena can see Justine's hand, but served anyways and asked for a do over.:confused: Talk about unsportmanship and cheating.

Are you really that stupid?? :o

Oh wait, look who I'm asking. :tape:

Justine's hand was still up after Serena served, that's how Serena saw it. And even if she saw it up while serving, the serve is invalid no matter what, so it really doesn't matter what she saw and when she saw it.

Boy, it's like arguing with morons, oh my, I did it again. :tape:

Knizzle
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:36 AM
WTF? It's been said countless times! Justine DID NOT LIE!

I still don't understand how serena can see Justine's hand, but served anyways and asked for a do over.:confused: Talk about unsportmanship and cheating.

Justine raised the hand in the middle of Serena's service motion. Humans have peripheral vision, put 2 and 2 together.

Diya
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:38 AM
Serena needed an excuse for losing to Justine (twice in a row) after pompously declaring that she would go undefeated in 2003 and she thought a wee bit of crocodile tears wouldn't do any hard to her cause and hence all the drama.

Had she graciously accepted the fact that Justine was the better player that day ( with or without the 'hand' incident happening) we could have been saved from all this nonsense :rolleyes:

Martian KC
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:38 AM
Are you really that stupid?? :o

Oh wait, look who I'm asking. :tape:

Justine's hand was still up after Serena served, that's how Serena saw it. And even if she saw it up while serving, the serve is invalid no matter what, so it really doesn't matter what she saw and when she saw it.

Boy, it's like arguing with morons, oh my, I did it again. :tape:

If she only saw it after her serve, it didn't bother her did it?

Gawd, these willifans ain't that bright.

Venus Forever
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:39 AM
Serena needed an excuse for losing to Justine (twice in a row) after pompously declaring that she would go undefeated in 2003 and she thought a wee bit of crocodile tears wouldn't do any hard to her cause and hence all the drama.

Had she graciously accepted the fact that Justine was the better player that day ( with or without the 'hand' incident happening) we could have been saved from all this nonsense :rolleyes:

Is that why Serena didn't blame the loss on the incident and admitted that Justine just picked it up at the end??

Martian KC
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:40 AM
Serena needed an excuse for losing to Justine (twice in a row) after pompously declaring that she would go undefeated in 2003 and she thought a wee bit of crocodile tears wouldn't do any hard to her cause and hence all the drama.

Had she graciously accepted the fact that Justine was the better player that day ( with or without the 'hand' incident happening) we could have been saved from all this nonsense :rolleyes:


It's more like her sad fans did. :lol:

Diya
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:40 AM
If she only saw it after her serve, it didn't bother her did it?

Gawd, these willifans ain't that bright.

You bet :tape:

bandabou
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:41 AM
Serena needed an excuse for losing to Justine (twice in a row) after pompously declaring that she would go undefeated in 2003 and she thought a wee bit of crocodile tears wouldn't do any hard to her cause and hence all the drama.

Had she graciously accepted the fact that Justine was the better player that day ( with or without the 'hand' incident happening) we could have been saved from all this nonsense :rolleyes:


But isnīt a Justine herself who started all this?! Remember that she too had problems losing to Lindsay last year at zurich...she publicly questioned Lindsayīs injury. Remember?!

Venus Forever
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:41 AM
If she only saw it after her serve, it didn't bother her did it?

Gawd, these willifans ain't that bright.

What part of "it doesn't matter" don't you understand??

The serve is still invalid, is that a hard concept for you?? Once a player asks for time, anything the other player is invalid.

Are you really that stupid that you can't see that the point is invalid??

It would be just as invalid if Serena hit an ace, she would still have to serve again. Boy, the bitching you would have heard from the Justine fans if that happened, and the point wasn't replayed.

Martian KC
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:41 AM
Is that why Serena didn't blame the loss on the incident and admitted that Justine just picked it up at the end??

Nope, she actually blamed the crowd. :lol:

bandabou
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:42 AM
Serena already stated that Justine was the better player and that the point didnīt decide the match...

Martian KC
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:43 AM
What part of "it doesn't matter" don't you understand??

The serve is still invalid, is that a hard concept for you?? Once a player asks for time, anything the other player is invalid.

Are you really that stupid that you can't see that the point is invalid??

It would be just as invalid if Serena hit an ace, she would still have to serve again. Boy, the bitching you would have heard from the Justine fans if that happened, and the point wasn't replayed.

If it was an ace you guys wouldn't complain and wouldn't have called it invalid would you?

Sad pathetic willifans. :lol:

Knizzle
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:43 AM
Serena needed an excuse for losing to Justine (twice in a row) after pompously declaring that she would go undefeated in 2003 and she thought a wee bit of crocodile tears wouldn't do any hard to her cause and hence all the drama.

Had she graciously accepted the fact that Justine was the better player that day ( with or without the 'hand' incident happening) we could have been saved from all this nonsense :rolleyes:

So now you resort to lying on Serena. Please post where Serena declared that she would go undefeated. If you do that I won't argue with you ever again.

BTW, she DID say Justine was the better player.

Knizzle
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:44 AM
If it was an ace you guys wouldn't complain and wouldn't have called it invalid would you?

Sad pathetic willifans. :lol:

I'm sure Justine would have said she wasn't ready and Serena would have replayed the point with no complaint.

Diya
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:45 AM
Serena already stated that Justine was the better player and that the point didnīt decide the match...


Then why don't her fans stop whining ? Enough already .....:tape:

bandabou
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:45 AM
But of course no one would see that Serena said that Justine was the better player....all they wanna see is the hand-thing.

On The Line
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:45 AM
Knizzle and Venus Forever, why argue with those two? It's quite obvious what their intent is. Just let it go and wait until the players meet on court, and then see what they have to say. You're never going to convince them one way or another. The best retort will be when Venus and Serena win on the courts. Then, the Williams fans can gloat all they want, while, those two...

Knizzle
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:46 AM
Then why don't her fans stop whining ? Enough already .....:tape:

I believe Martian KC brought up RG in this thread.

bandabou
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:46 AM
No one is whining....I ainīt. But that stays in the back of your head when answering the question of this poll.

Venus Forever
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:49 AM
If it was an ace you guys wouldn't complain and wouldn't have called it invalid would you?

Sad pathetic willifans. :lol:

Rules are rules. Sure, I would think what a shame she couldn't have won the point with the ace, but I accept that those are the rules and that she would have to re-play the point.

What I find sad is pathetic are characters like yourself and Diya, who don't even know the rules of tennis, and try to argue otherwise.

Martian KC
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:49 AM
Knizzle and Venus Forever, why argue with those two? It's quite obvious what their intent is. Just let it go and wait until the players meet on court, and then see what they have to say. You're never going to convince them one way or another. The best retort will be when Venus and Serena win on the courts. Then, the Williams fans can gloat all they want, while, those two...

Yes, we're all racists. We want the world to eliminate all African Americans.

On The Line
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:52 AM
Yes, we're all racists. We want the world to eliminate all African Americans.

Not only will I pray for you tonight, but, also in church tomorrow. I'll ask the congregation to send out a love prayer to you.

Knizzle
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:52 AM
So now you resort to lying on Serena. Please post where Serena declared that she would go undefeated. If you do that I won't argue with you ever again.



Like I thought Diya. Spread your lies somewhere else.

bandabou
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:53 AM
But on the line is right...the court will do the talking. Martian and Diya wanna keep talking this and that...seems like Diya jumped of the Jen-bandwagon pretty soon.

Crazy Canuck
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:53 AM
Knizzle and Venus Forever, why argue with those two? It's quite obvious what their intent is. Just let it go and wait until the players meet on court, and then see what they have to say. You're never going to convince them one way or another. The best retort will be when Venus and Serena win on the courts. Then, the Williams fans can gloat all they want, while, those two...
Only a complete loser would (seriously) gloat over a sporting result that they had nothing to do with; that their life or death had no matter in ;) That goes for fans of any player, btw ;)

Knizzle
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:53 AM
But on the line is right...the court will do the talking. Martian and Diya wanna keep talking this and that...seems like Diya jumped of the Jen-bandwagon pretty soon.

YA Know!!
:lol:

On The Line
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:55 AM
Only a complete loser would (seriously) gloat over a sporting result that they had nothing to do with; that their life or death had no matter in ;) That goes for fans of any player, btw ;)


And, the gloating going on now is what? I'll ask for a prayer for you also.

Diya
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:57 AM
Hi On The Line aka persond :wavey:

Knizzle we all know Serena had said that her goal was to go undefeated in 2003 !

Knizzle
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:58 AM
Hi On The Line aka persond :wavey:

Knizzle we all know Serena had said that her goal was to go undefeated in 2003 !

So why did you feel the need to lie then??

On The Line
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:59 AM
Hi On The Line aka persond :wavey:

Knizzle we all know Serena had said that her goal was to go undefeated in 2003 !


Sister, you need PRAYER in your life. Will you now kneel down with me and I'll offer a prayer of hope for you.

Martian KC
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:59 AM
Not only will I pray for you tonight, but, also in church tomorrow. I'll ask the congregation to send out a love prayer to you.

That's your answer for everything isn't it? :lol: I'm sure in your own warped little mind, the only people that aren't racists are willifans.:lol:

Throw a prayer for yourself. Your own true colors have been exposed.

bandabou
Dec 6th, 2003, 05:00 AM
Diya, how come youīre so busy defending Justine?! Oooh, I know because she managed to do something that Jen hasnīt managed to since like nearly three years ago now?! Man, Jen should be happy with fans like this....whenever the going gets though, the jump off the ship.

On The Line
Dec 6th, 2003, 05:01 AM
That's your answer for everything isn't it? :lol: I'm sure in your own warped little mind, the only people that aren't racists are willifans.:lol:

Throw a prayer for yourself. Your own true colors have been exposed.


:angel: :angel:

Diya
Dec 6th, 2003, 05:02 AM
Lie ? i didn't lie

banda... whatever i don't have to ask you who i can support and who i can't .....get it ?

Knizzle
Dec 6th, 2003, 05:04 AM
Lie ? i didn't lie

banda... whatever i don't have to ask you who i can support and who i can't .....get it ?

You said Serena pompously declared that she would go undefeated in 2003.

Serena DID not say that and you know it.

bandabou
Dec 6th, 2003, 05:06 AM
Funny....you wanna fight a war in which your fav isnīt even involved....but whatever makes your day.

You wonīt ask me who you can support, but then you would turn around and hate on me because I donīt like Justine?! :scratch:

Knizzle
Dec 6th, 2003, 05:07 AM
Funny....you wanna fight a war in which your fav isnīt even involved....but whatever makes your day.

You wonīt ask me who you can support, but then you would turn around and hate on me because I donīt like Justine?! :scratch:

Seems every bandwagon she jumps on is related to opposing the WS.

bandabou
Dec 6th, 2003, 05:10 AM
Only when such person has a win against the WS. Think she wouldnīt have voted for Kim if was winning against dem sisters?!

LucasArg
Dec 6th, 2003, 06:41 AM
They are not one of my favorites, but I prefer Justine over Kim.

thalle
Dec 6th, 2003, 08:00 AM
Definately Kim. Her personality and game is, IMO, better than Justines

Brαm
Dec 6th, 2003, 10:12 AM
http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/ten/2002/0122/photo/a_kim_i.jpg

:D

Come-on-kim
Dec 6th, 2003, 10:27 AM
Kim ;)

pigam
Dec 6th, 2003, 10:28 AM
http://www.espnstar.com/jsp/cda/photo/upload/378824Justin_Henin_all.jpg
;) :p

Belgium = Best
Dec 6th, 2003, 10:33 AM
Kim Clijsters :)

minboy
Dec 6th, 2003, 11:06 AM
some willifans are acting like "i used to be a big fan of her, but not after that rg thing", which is bullshit in most case. She's now a threat, and that's what u can't stand!! Actually, you should thank justine for that hand incident, because it gives you ( or more precisely u think it gives you ) a "legitimate" reason to hate her! Had that incident didn't happen, u would have find something else to hate her.

saki
Dec 6th, 2003, 11:36 AM
I'm curious - why do people think that The Hand Thing was worse than other things that players do all the time such as not saying anything when they get a call in their favour that they could see wasn't right or hitting a ball that bounced twice and hoping the umpire didn't see it? You very very rarely see a player telling the umpire about these points that they get in their favour, so how is this different?

In any case I still hold to the logic that:

Either Serena saw the hand go up or she didn't.
If she saw and served anyway, she doesn't deserve another.
If she didn't, then the serve was out anyway.

kim4eva
Dec 6th, 2003, 11:38 AM
Kim :hearts:

saki
Dec 6th, 2003, 11:38 AM
And please stop talking about Justine as though there are dozens of unsportsmanlike incidents attributed to her - there is just the one. If you have a problem with it, that's your opinion, but don't imply that she's continually doing similar things because that's just not true.

Brαm
Dec 6th, 2003, 11:39 AM
If she saw and served anyway, she doesn't deserve another.
If she didn't, then the serve was out anyway.


:) :yeah:

Stijn
Dec 6th, 2003, 11:42 AM
Kim :angel:

Princess Fiona
Dec 6th, 2003, 11:44 AM
J, J, J, Ju, Jussss...

Justine.. :) I've liked her since watching her play Lindsay Davenport at Roland Garros 1999... (On TV!! Maybe one day I'll see a WTA tournament live... :) ) I really love her game... :)

Bigkimfan
Dec 6th, 2003, 11:47 AM
Kim :D :bounce: :bounce: :worship:

Sharapova's_Boy
Dec 6th, 2003, 11:48 AM
Easily Kim.

Chance
Dec 6th, 2003, 12:36 PM
Justine

tfannis
Dec 6th, 2003, 12:45 PM
K :worship: I :worship: M

kim4eva
Dec 6th, 2003, 12:51 PM
well honestly when i first knew Belgium had two great players i liked them both..but then i didnt really like justine for some reason...I became a huge Kim fan :angel: :hearts: :worship:

GO Kim! :bounce:

selesfan
Dec 6th, 2003, 01:02 PM
Kimmie :hearts:

Lady
Dec 6th, 2003, 01:09 PM
Justine, without a doubt :)


BTW, bandabou, who did you choose after all??

*liana*
Dec 6th, 2003, 02:10 PM
Kim

Infiniti2001
Dec 6th, 2003, 02:22 PM
According to someone who did not take my voting for Kim too kindly, I am a wasted sperm :lol: The culprit has no post to date, so I'm assuming the name change was to help their fav in the poll :tape: :rolleyes:

Glenn
Dec 6th, 2003, 02:22 PM
Jujuuuuuuuuuu! :d

rada
Dec 6th, 2003, 02:23 PM
justine is better bye far kim is toooooo fake

Vut
Dec 6th, 2003, 02:41 PM
Kim !!! :D

TatiAnnahølic
Dec 6th, 2003, 02:43 PM
Kim

Klio
Dec 6th, 2003, 02:50 PM
Justine H-H

Bероника
Dec 6th, 2003, 02:51 PM
None

Venus Forever
Dec 6th, 2003, 03:56 PM
I'm curious - why do people think that The Hand Thing was worse than other things that players do all the time such as not saying anything when they get a call in their favour that they could see wasn't right or hitting a ball that bounced twice and hoping the umpire didn't see it? You very very rarely see a player telling the umpire about these points that they get in their favour, so how is this different?

In any case I still hold to the logic that:

Either Serena saw the hand go up or she didn't.
If she saw and served anyway, she doesn't deserve another.
If she didn't, then the serve was out anyway.

Hmm, you must have some failed logic, considering there are RULES when these situations occur.

It's not about what you THINK should happen, it's about what SHOULD happen because the rules state so.

It doesn't matter what Serena saw, as the only important factors here are: Justine wasn't ready, and Serena served.

That's the only important factors, and the fact that Justine wasn't ready invalidates Serena's serve, so there is only one importnt factor: Justine wasn't ready.

As soon as a player asks for more time, anything, and I mean ANYTHING the other player does is irrelevant. If the serve was an ace, it's invalid, if the serve was a fault, it's invalid. Those are rules in which all tennis players should follow, and Justine did not follow the rules, which I found to be disgusting.

Oh, and I didn't realize that you could see into player's minds and know what they were thinking about other close calls. You must be a psychic to know what they are thinking. :eek:

Venus Forever
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:05 PM
some willifans are acting like "i used to be a big fan of her, but not after that rg thing", which is bullshit in most case. She's now a threat, and that's what u can't stand!! Actually, you should thank justine for that hand incident, because it gives you ( or more precisely u think it gives you ) a "legitimate" reason to hate her! Had that incident didn't happen, u would have find something else to hate her.

Go back and do some research, I would love to see which "willifans" are "acting."

It may be hard for you to accept that one incident changed their views, but think again. Justine was my fourth favorite out of the top 10 players (behind Vee, Ree, and Chanda.) She lost my respect for her when she blatantly withheld the truth about a certain incident, just so she'd have a better chance of winning. She disrespected Serena, she disrespected the chair umpire, and she disrespected the sport. What she did was shameful and disgusting. Just to think she used to be one of my faves repulses me, as I would never condone those actions of any of my faves. It'd be something if afterwards she admitted her wrongdoing, but of course, she tried to justify what she did, which was even worse. At least admit what you did was wrong, but not even that. It's just terrible, IMO.

Just to think I used to root for Justine over Kim and Lindsay. :o

Knizzle
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:16 PM
Go back and do some research, I would love to see which "willifans" are "acting."

It may be hard for you to accept that one incident changed their views, but think again. Justine was my fourth favorite out of the top 10 players (behind Vee, Ree, and Chanda.) She lost my respect for her when she blatantly withheld the truth about a certain incident, just so she'd have a better chance of winning. She disrespected Serena, she disrespected the chair umpire, and she disrespected the sport. What she did was shameful and disgusting. Just to think she used to be one of my faves repulses me, as I would never condone those actions of any of my faves. It'd be something if afterwards she admitted her wrongdoing, but of course, she tried to justify what she did, which was even worse. At least admit what you did was wrong, but not even that. It's just terrible, IMO.

Just to think I used to root for Justine over Kim and Lindsay. :o

Yep, I had five faves.

Serena, Venus, Seles, Davenport and Justine.

Now only four remain. I guess Sharapova will be replacing Justine in 2004.

P.S. Clijsters is running away with this poll.

ktwtennis
Dec 6th, 2003, 04:45 PM
Kim...She's so sweet!

bandabou
Dec 6th, 2003, 05:22 PM
I like Justineīs game better than Kimīs, Lady... but personality counts for something too...so it became Kim.

irma
Dec 6th, 2003, 05:25 PM
always Kim. I even take pa treurwilg;)

Rocketta
Dec 6th, 2003, 05:38 PM
Don't paticularly like either actualy if this was a poll of who I like least Justine would be #1, and Kim would be #2. So I voted for kim cause I dislike Justine more. :)

ghosts
Dec 6th, 2003, 05:46 PM
Clijsters leads 90-60 :eek: :) ;)

minboy
Dec 6th, 2003, 06:26 PM
Go back and do some research, I would love to see which "willifans" are "acting."

It may be hard for you to accept that one incident changed their views, but think again. Justine was my fourth favorite out of the top 10 players (behind Vee, Ree, and Chanda.) She lost my respect for her when she blatantly withheld the truth about a certain incident, just so she'd have a better chance of winning. She disrespected Serena, she disrespected the chair umpire, and she disrespected the sport. What she did was shameful and disgusting. Just to think she used to be one of my faves repulses me, as I would never condone those actions of any of my faves. It'd be something if afterwards she admitted her wrongdoing, but of course, she tried to justify what she did, which was even worse. At least admit what you did was wrong, but not even that. It's just terrible, IMO.

Just to think I used to root for Justine over Kim and Lindsay. :o


every player acted unsportsmanlike at least one time in their carreer. I didn't see a lot of people bashing jenn cap for her attitude in the us open semi. I don't think ferrero has lost many fans after what happened in madrid. I didn't heard british commentators blaming henman when he didn't told the empire he had played a ball who had bounced twice after grosjean made a dropshot in wimby this year. There are thousands more examples.

AS for disrespect, it's pretty much the same. Don't want to bring serena into this, but i eed an example, so here i go : not giving your opponent credit when he beat u is disrepect to me ( remember how she felt like a 98 years old woman when kimm beat her in the master final, how she did " beat herself " in charleston,how she was ill everytime jenn beat her in 2001 ). I don't blame her for that, she's a champion , an champions find it hard to accept losses when they come. JUstine has probably done the same sometimes. If u want to blame justine, then blame all the players who have done the same kind of things .

bandabou
Dec 6th, 2003, 06:51 PM
Comments AFTER the match, do they have influence on the outcome of the match?! :scratch:

minboy
Dec 6th, 2003, 06:55 PM
well, venus forever was talkin' about direspect, wasn't he/she?

Venus Forever
Dec 6th, 2003, 06:55 PM
every player acted unsportsmanlike at least one time in their carreer. I didn't see a lot of people bashing jenn cap for her attitude in the us open semi. I don't think ferrero has lost many fans after what happened in madrid. I didn't heard british commentators blaming henman when he didn't told the empire he had played a ball who had bounced twice after grosjean made a dropshot in wimby this year. There are thousands more examples.

AS for disrespect, it's pretty much the same. Don't want to bring serena into this, but i eed an example, so here i go : not giving your opponent credit when he beat u is disrepect to me ( remember how she felt like a 98 years old woman when kimm beat her in the master final, how she did " beat herself " in charleston,how she was ill everytime jenn beat her in 2001 ). I don't blame her for that, she's a champion , an champions find it hard to accept losses when they come. JUstine has probably done the same sometimes. If u want to blame justine, then blame all the players who have done the same kind of things .

Oh believe me, I have criticized every player who has ever did something wrong. Heck, I even chastized Serena in Australia when she was cursing on court, even against Capriati when she does it. In regards to Henman, how do you know what Henman knows?? For all we know, Henman thought he hit the ball on one bounce. I've played sometimes where I don't know if I hit it one bounce or not, but if no one calls it, I just believe them. As for Ferrero, I didn't see it, and don't even know what happened, so I won't comment.

As for Charleston:

SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, she played really excellent today. She had a good plan going out there, and you know, she was prepared and she was ready, and it all worked. So it all worked for her, and she was on today, and she was really fighting, and you know, she did a great job.

She gave credit to her opponent right there. BTW, no where in the interview does she say she "beat herself," so stop fabricating. She said she played "9,000 notches" below herself, but is that lying?? No, because she indeed played terrible. I love it how people only want to see what they want to see, and ignore the rest, along with the facts.

As for the Jen matches, again, Serena was speaking the truth. She lost in Miami to Jen, what happened?? She WAS injured and she was out until May. Comes back in May and loses to Jen again, what happened?? Serena was rusty, which I think is very understandable. She hadn't played on the clay the entire season, and hadn't played in over 2 months. Goes to Wimbledon, where anyone with eyes could see how sick Serena was. I mean, come on, she left for a bathroom break in the MIDDLE of a game. Who in their right mind would do that if they weren't sick, not to mention constantly bending over throughout the entire match. Excuses maybe, but was she lying?? No.

And then Kim, she sure did look like a 98 year old woman to me. She barely moved the entire second set. Let's not also forget that Serena complimented Jennifer, Justine, and Kim in ALL of these matches, but the opponent is not always the ENTIRE reason you lose, there are other factors, and Serena's just being honest to herself, and pointing them out.

I think the problem is that fans like yourself only look at the "bad," but honest things she has said, and refuse to look at how she complimented her opponents.

And again, none of these things may have determined the outcome of a match so blatantly as Justine's hand.

bandabou
Dec 6th, 2003, 07:01 PM
well, venus forever was talkin' about direspect, wasn't he/she?

Donīt think the situations are comparable, but hey Serena was wrong those times too..if it makes you happy. No one is discussing that, itīs you who wanna act like what Justine did was right.

bandabou
Dec 6th, 2003, 07:03 PM
Thatīs the thing....in minboyīs eyes: Justine says she is ill, she is ill. Serena says she is ill, sheīs lying.

Someone is being dubious here.

minboy
Dec 6th, 2003, 07:07 PM
Oh believe me, I have criticized every player who has ever did something wrong. Heck, I even chastized Serena in Australia when she was cursing on court, even against Capriati when she does it. In regards to Henman, how do you know what Henman knows?? For all we know, Henman thought he hit the ball on one bounce. I've played sometimes where I don't know if I hit it one bounce or not, but if no one calls it, I just believe them. As for Ferrero, I didn't see it, and don't even know what happened, so I won't comment.

As for Charleston:

SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, she played really excellent today. She had a good plan going out there, and you know, she was prepared and she was ready, and it all worked. So it all worked for her, and she was on today, and she was really fighting, and you know, she did a great job.

She gave credit to her opponent right there. BTW, no where in the interview does she say she "beat herself," so stop fabricating. She said she played "9,000 notches" below herself, but is that lying?? No, because she indeed played terrible. I love it how people only want to see what they want to see, and ignore the rest, along with the facts.

As for the Jen matches, again, Serena was speaking the truth. She lost in Miami to Jen, what happened?? Serena was out until May. Comes back in May and loses to Jen again, what happened?? Serena was rusty, which I think is very understandable. She hadn't played on the clay the entire season, and hadn't played in over 2 months. Goes to Wimbledon, where anyone in eyes could see how sick Serena was. I mean, come on, she left for a bathroom break in the MIDDLE of a gme. Who in their right mind would do that if they weren't sick, not to mention constantly bending over throughout the entire match. Excuses maybe, but was she lying?? No.

And then Kim, she sure did look like a 98 year old woman to me. She barely moved the entire second set. Let's not also forget that Serena complimented Jennifer, Justine, and Kim in ALL of these matches, but the opponent is not always the ENTIRE reason you lose, there are other factors, and Serena's just being honest to herself, and pointing them out.

I think the problem is that fans like yourself only look at the "bad," but honest things she has said, and refuse to look at how she complimented her opponents.

And again, none of these things may have determined the outcome of a match so blatantly as Justine's hand.

1. I'm glad to hear you criticized every player when they acted badly, but then, why forgiving certain and not others?
2. The henamn thing : please, dont come up with that crap, if u don't know when a ball bounce twice, all i can do is suggesting u to wear glasses.
3. INterview for belgian tv crew at RG, she said she beat herself. And i fail to see how u give credit to your opponent saying you played 9000 notches below your level
4. again, i don't blame serena for those words. IN order to be the best ( which she is ), u have to think you're the best, therefore it's hard to accept losses. I don't have any problem for that
5. you wer the one talkin about disrepect, so don't try to change your point
6. if u can't see how not to tell the umpire that a ball bounced twice can change the outcome of a match, then i feel sorry for u. I will add than in this case, the point is played and there's nothing u can do about it. WIth the hand thing, the point was still to be played

minboy
Dec 6th, 2003, 07:10 PM
Thatīs the thing....in minboyīs eyes: Justine says she is ill, she is ill. Serena says she is ill, sheīs lying.

Someone is being dubious here.

if you can read, you would see that i said i had no problem with that.

btw : what if we exchange positions : when justine says she's ill ( more exactly when reporters say so ), u think she's lying. When serena says she iss, you believe her. YOu know what, i believe both, just wanna point out double standards

bandabou
Dec 6th, 2003, 07:21 PM
I do believe her....the times she said she was ill or injured, I could see and notice something wasnīt right.

In fact, this is soo old now. Itīs aight and cool. Everybody does things.

Allez-H
Dec 6th, 2003, 07:25 PM
For the ones that didn't believe that Justine was ill,they should take a look at this pic.

Allez-H
Dec 6th, 2003, 07:26 PM
I still think you can't fake being pale.

Brαm
Dec 6th, 2003, 07:43 PM
I still think you can't fake being pale.
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :haha: :haha: :lol: :lol: :haha:

Classic one :D

SJW
Dec 6th, 2003, 08:25 PM
Willifans just state the truth. The only reason you don't like Justine anymore is for the fact that she's the biggest threat to the succession of the willies. *sigh* Stop hiding behind the facade one incident as if she's condemnded for life.

why is it one person's opinion always represents the rest of us? do you do that in every day life too?

is it SERIOUSLY that hard to think that maybe people didn't vote for Justine just because they prefer Kim :rolleyes: is it SERIOUSLY that hard to think that some people didn't like Justine as soon as they saw her? is it SERIOUSLY hard to see the BLATANT reasons why she may not be voted most popular player?

if this "incident" had been the other way round, i'm sure you would be proclaiming to the world the unsportsmanlike behaviour of those blasted sisters.

i just wanted to know when not liking Justine because she is the biggest threat became the only reason not to like her :lol: stop hiding behind the facade that one incident is the reason why people don't like her ;)

SJW
Dec 6th, 2003, 08:29 PM
Justine raised the hand in the middle of Serena's service motion. Humans have peripheral vision, put 2 and 2 together.

OH MY, someone is making sense :tape:

pigam
Dec 6th, 2003, 08:30 PM
why is it one person's opinion always represents the rest of us? do you do that in every day life too?

is it SERIOUSLY that hard to think that maybe people didn't vote for Justine just because they prefer Kim :rolleyes: is it SERIOUSLY that hard to think that some people didn't like Justine as soon as they saw her? is it SERIOUSLY hard to see the BLATANT reasons why she may not be voted most popular player?

if this "incident" had been the other way round, i'm sure you would be proclaiming to the world the unsportsmanlike behaviour of those blasted sisters.

i just wanted to know when not liking Justine because she is the biggest threat became the only reason not to like her :lol: stop hiding behind the facade that one incident is the reason why people don't like her ;)
You're right but this thing getting really old !! (well, not really when you see there are still threads about the Sanchez-Serena match, Venus-Spirlea match , ... :rolleyes: ) But enjoy. Beisdes, I don't have any problem wathsoever with Kim (clearly) winning this poll.

Brαm
Dec 6th, 2003, 08:31 PM
You're right but this thing getting really old !! (well, not really when you see there are still threads about the Sanchez-Serena match, Venus-Spirlea match , ... :rolleyes: ) But enjoy. Beisdes, I don't have any problem wathsoever with Kim (clearly) winning this poll.
These percentages reflect the percentages in the poll in the Belgian Babes Band, which has been going on for a year I think.

SJW
Dec 6th, 2003, 08:32 PM
some willifans are acting like "i used to be a big fan of her, but not after that rg thing", which is bullshit in most case. She's now a threat, and that's what u can't stand!! Actually, you should thank justine for that hand incident, because it gives you ( or more precisely u think it gives you ) a "legitimate" reason to hate her! Had that incident didn't happen, u would have find something else to hate her.

if it makes you feel any better, i didn't like her before that incident.

so you can sleep well tonight

pigam
Dec 6th, 2003, 08:36 PM
These percentages reflect the percentages in the poll in the Belgian Babes Band, which has been going on for a year I think.
and what you're trying to say is ... ?? ;)


No seriously, what are you trying to say? :confused:

Brαm
Dec 6th, 2003, 08:38 PM
and what you're trying to say is ... ?? ;)


No seriously, what are you trying to say? :confused:
Nothing, just that this poll isn't anything "new". Justine is less popular than Kim on this board. That is a fact.

She did get the award for most popular player of the year so other people who don't post her do like her ;)

SJW
Dec 6th, 2003, 08:39 PM
You're right but this thing getting really old !! (well, not really when you see there are still threads about the Sanchez-Serena match, Venus-Spirlea match , ... :rolleyes: ) But enjoy. Beisdes, I don't have any problem wathsoever with Kim (clearly) winning this poll.

it IS getting sooooooooooo old :yawn: i mean, maybe i'm being a bit stupid, but i'm sure not all of the Williams fans dropped her @ RG :confused: i mean, a handful yes, but so? that's because she's becoming a threat? wouldn't that be after she beat Venus or Serena in Berlin? or Serena in Charleston? or after she started the year so well?

i think it's just an excuse again. not everybody is/was attracted to her, but now we're called scared/threatened even if we disliked her before that :rolleyes:

pigam
Dec 6th, 2003, 08:39 PM
ok, I'm a bit denklui... but thanks for the clarification ;)

SJW
Dec 6th, 2003, 08:51 PM
Oh believe me, I have criticized every player who has ever did something wrong. Heck, I even chastized Serena in Australia when she was cursing on court, even against Capriati when she does it. In regards to Henman, how do you know what Henman knows?? For all we know, Henman thought he hit the ball on one bounce. I've played sometimes where I don't know if I hit it one bounce or not, but if no one calls it, I just believe them. As for Ferrero, I didn't see it, and don't even know what happened, so I won't comment.

As for Charleston:

SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, she played really excellent today. She had a good plan going out there, and you know, she was prepared and she was ready, and it all worked. So it all worked for her, and she was on today, and she was really fighting, and you know, she did a great job.

She gave credit to her opponent right there. BTW, no where in the interview does she say she "beat herself," so stop fabricating. She said she played "9,000 notches" below herself, but is that lying?? No, because she indeed played terrible. I love it how people only want to see what they want to see, and ignore the rest, along with the facts.

As for the Jen matches, again, Serena was speaking the truth. She lost in Miami to Jen, what happened?? She WAS injured and she was out until May. Comes back in May and loses to Jen again, what happened?? Serena was rusty, which I think is very understandable. She hadn't played on the clay the entire season, and hadn't played in over 2 months. Goes to Wimbledon, where anyone with eyes could see how sick Serena was. I mean, come on, she left for a bathroom break in the MIDDLE of a game. Who in their right mind would do that if they weren't sick, not to mention constantly bending over throughout the entire match. Excuses maybe, but was she lying?? No.

And then Kim, she sure did look like a 98 year old woman to me. She barely moved the entire second set. Let's not also forget that Serena complimented Jennifer, Justine, and Kim in ALL of these matches, but the opponent is not always the ENTIRE reason you lose, there are other factors, and Serena's just being honest to herself, and pointing them out.

I think the problem is that fans like yourself only look at the "bad," but honest things she has said, and refuse to look at how she complimented her opponents.

And again, none of these things may have determined the outcome of a match so blatantly as Justine's hand.

very good post.

i mean...surely you can tell whether you put your hand up or not better than you can hit the ball on the bounce, right? ;)

:yeah: @ highlighting the fact that SERENA GAVE CREDIT TO HER OPPONENTS IN EVERY SINGLE MATCH...funny how that gets forgotten, right :scratch:

bandabou
Dec 6th, 2003, 08:54 PM
Martian Kc, or is it that YOU donīt like the sisters because they are the biggest threat for your fav?! I think that is a more accurate stating of the situation.

Crazy Canuck
Dec 6th, 2003, 08:54 PM
Only a complete loser would (seriously) gloat over a sporting result that they had nothing to do with; that their life or death had no matter in ;) That goes for fans of any player, btw ;)
Apparently I crushed poor Venus Forever's pride by posting this *sniff* Poor soul assumed I was talking about him... although, come to think of it, it appears that I was:devil:

pigam
Dec 6th, 2003, 08:56 PM
Yeah. Don't wanna drag this thing up again (i'm doing anyway, but what the heck ;) ). The Belgian press interviewed Serena and she was ALL arogancy. I had never seen her like that. Her hitting partner litterally said 'get your camera awy or I'll trash it' when they were ONLY filming her training. But I agree, in an official press conference, Serena is mostly classy. Just shows nobody's perfect, but that's no reason to Hate someone

pigam
Dec 6th, 2003, 08:57 PM
I'll try to beat you to it. her hitting partner is NOT serena. But it's about what she said, too. Namely that she beat herself in Charleston and that NOBODY ever beats Serena Williams twice... (in a very 'unpolite, arrogant' kinda way)

Knizzle
Dec 6th, 2003, 08:59 PM
Yeah. Don't wanna drag this thing up again (i'm doing anyway, but what the heck ;) ). The Belgian press interviewed Serena and she was ALL arogancy. I had never seen her like that. Her hitting partner litterally said 'get your camera awy or I'll trash it' when they were ONLY filming her training. But I agree, in an official press conference, Serena is mostly classy. Just shows nobody's perfect, but that's no reason to Hate someone

Obviously they weren't interviewing her, but rather acting like poparazzi.

SJW
Dec 6th, 2003, 09:00 PM
I'll try to beat you to it. her hitting partner is NOT serena. But it's about what she said, too. Namely that she beat herself in Charleston and that NOBODY ever beats Serena Williams twice... (in a very 'unpolite, arrogant' kinda way)

LMAO! damn, you're too quick :lol:

so she said that to the Belgian press huh?

pigam
Dec 6th, 2003, 09:01 PM
Obviously they weren't interviewing her, but rather acting like poparazzi.
no they really didn't. But you're not going to believe me anyway.

Knizzle
Dec 6th, 2003, 09:02 PM
no they really didn't. But you're not going to believe me anyway.

If it was a private practice and Serena didn't want them there, she has no right to tell them to stop filiming her??

pigam
Dec 6th, 2003, 09:03 PM
of course she has. :D

you're arguments are too 'strong' for me. I'm going out. Bye :wavey:

SJW
Dec 6th, 2003, 09:03 PM
no they really didn't. But you're not going to believe me anyway.

i know it wasn't to me but....

hmmmm i've seen a few British documentaries on her and she's been really down to Earth.

since i haven't seen the Belgian docu.....I'm gonna stick to my guns and not comment on things i haven't seen :shrug:

j_dementieva27
Dec 6th, 2003, 09:16 PM
justine.. i have always secretly hated kim clijsters... kims game is very generic, all she does is baseline rally [not saying she isnt a great baseliner, cause she is]... her strokes and serve are very textbook tennis and it seems like she never does anything unique but split, which will eventually lead to her injury IMO

justine's backhand is a major plus... and the pop she gets on her serve... her grace into the net is beautiful... she deserves the #1 more than kim

minboy
Dec 6th, 2003, 09:55 PM
if it makes you feel any better, i didn't like her before that incident.

so you can sleep well tonight


FIne, i don't have problems with people not liking her. I know she has the kind of personnality that can't be appreciated by everyone. That's one of the reason i like her. I don't like people who makes the "unanimity" ( in and off tennis )
BUt saying "i liked her before rg, but stopped after that 1/2" seems crap to me. AS i said earlier,almost every player has acted unsportsmanlike once in their career, yet people seems to forget about it pretty quickly, except when it comes to justine.

And knizzle, that paparrazzi thing made me laugh for a while!!! don't u have anything else to come up with? I mean,following your "logic" , a LOT of tennis photographs are paparrazzi then, since there are plenty of off-court pictures of players in tennis magazines around the world. STrange that, to me knowledge, no one of them ever get sued. I guess the players don't care..........

propi
Dec 6th, 2003, 10:08 PM
Justine :D

bandabou
Dec 6th, 2003, 10:43 PM
wow, Kim is really RUNNING away with this poll.

~ The Leopard ~
Dec 6th, 2003, 11:39 PM
Juju!! :hearts:

(I like Kimmie, too. It's liking Juju more, not disliking Kimmie less or somethin'.)

Venus Forever
Dec 7th, 2003, 12:24 AM
1. I'm glad to hear you criticized every player when they acted badly, but then, why forgiving certain and not others?

What they did did not affect the play of the match, and its possible outcome. They also didn't try to justify what they did wrong. Justine never admitted she was wrong, in fact, she stated that she thought it was the right thing to do, which is discrediting women's tennis. What's the point of rules in tennis if you are not going to follow them, and you make up your own rules?

2. The henamn thing : please, dont come up with that crap, if u don't know when a ball bounce twice, all i can do is suggesting u to wear glasses.

You've obviously never played tennis before then. It's not always possible to determine whether a point was a double bounce with absolute certainty. You are never certain, especially if the player hits the ball right after it bounces for the second time. I saw the play, and it was one of those that it was even hard to determine whether it was a double bounce on a much slower replay. The commentators had to slow the tape up to conclusively determine it was a double bounce.

3. INterview for belgian tv crew at RG, she said she beat herself. And i fail to see how u give credit to your opponent saying you played 9000 notches below your level

Hey, I read the interview today, and no where does she say that she "beat herself." She said she played badly, which she did, but no where did she say she beat herself. She gave credit to Justine:

SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, she played really excellent today. She had a good plan going out there, and you know, she was prepared and she was ready, and it all worked. So it all worked for her, and she was on today, and she was really fighting, and you know, she did a great job.

She believes she played 9,000 notches below her norm, which she did. She still gave credit to Justine for the win. Serena playing badly doesn't take ANYTHING away from Justine, she still played great, and although Serena recognizes that, she also realizes she could play a lot better. What's wrong with thinking you played bad, especially when it's the truth??

4. again, i don't blame serena for those words. IN order to be the best ( which she is ), u have to think you're the best, therefore it's hard to accept losses. I don't have any problem for that

Then why are you bringing it up??

5. you wer the one talkin about disrepect, so don't try to change your point

What are you talking about?? Where is the changing of my point?? Serena respected her opponents by admitting they played better, just re-read the quote from Serena at Charleston. HOWEVER, she also had respect for herself that she can play better. What's wrong with having respect for her own game??

6. if u can't see how not to tell the umpire that a ball bounced twice can change the outcome of a match, then i feel sorry for u. I will add than in this case, the point is played and there's nothing u can do about it. WIth the hand thing, the point was still to be played

I definitely see how it may change the outcome of a match, but it wasn't in Tim's control. You don't know what Tim thought or saw, and I don't know what he thought or saw. There's a difference. We do know what Justine thought and did. She justified her actions with the same excuse all of the Justine fans are giving, that Serena saw her hand and continued to serve anyway, which doesn't make sense since Justine's hand went up when the ball was already in the air, Serena's racket was brought back, and eyes were looking up at the ball. Then you all say, "so, it didn't affect Serena's serve in anyway, she shouldn't have replayed the point." Well, when a ballball drops a ball by mistake in the middle of the point, or a napkin flies onto the court, and the umpire calls "let" and replays the point by getting a first serve, did either of those things affect the serve or the point?? No, they didn't, but it's the rules. When such a thing happens, the point becomes invalid and must be started all over again, just as when one opponent is not ready, yet the other player initiates the point; it's still invalid.

Venus Forever
Dec 7th, 2003, 12:28 AM
Apparently I crushed poor Venus Forever's pride by posting this *sniff* Poor soul assumed I was talking about him... although, come to think of it, it appears that I was:devil:

Because I was defending everyone in this thread who you called "a complete loser??"

Sorry hun, keep thinking you hurt me any way, I've learned to ignore fools, such as yourself.

Afterall, you are the one who thinks of WTAworld.com as a place to "f*** with people." And we're the losers?? You can't even debate on a certain topic, but come in with some "smart"-ass remark, which shows to me that you don't know how to form opinions, or are too stupid to back it up.

~|Naomi|~
Dec 7th, 2003, 12:33 AM
Kim :angel:

bandabou
Dec 7th, 2003, 12:48 AM
Some very good points, Venusforever.

Crazy Canuck
Dec 7th, 2003, 02:27 AM
Because I was defending everyone in this thread who you called "a complete loser??"

I was hardly just refering to people in this thread. Try reading the quote again... a little more slowly this time :devil:

Sorry hun, keep thinking you hurt me any way, I've learned to ignore fools, such as yourself.

You haven't, actually, or you would neither respond to me nor give me some form of reputation based on what I wrote. You have done everything BUT ignore me.

Afterall, you are the one who thinks of WTAworld.com as a place to "f*** with people."

General Messages is. If you think that a lot of intelligent debate occurs in this forum, then that explains a LOT about you ;)

And we're the losers??

Tell me who "we" is and I'll consider answering this question.

You can't even debate on a certain topic, but come in with some "smart"-ass remark, which shows to me that you don't know how to form opinions, or are too stupid to back it up.

I debate on many topics.... I just don't consider 99% of the threads in GM worthy of my abilities, ya know? :)

As for not being able to form an opinion and being stupid... uh yes, itsy bitsy ego, whatever makes you feel better ;) Also assume that I'm fat and ugly, a tactic that has helped some of your fellow posters who also suffer from ego issues in the past :devil:

Martian KC
Dec 7th, 2003, 02:34 AM
Either Serena saw the hand go up or she didn't.
If she saw and served anyway, she doesn't deserve another.
If she didn't, then the serve was out anyway.

My point exactly! :worship:

Martian KC
Dec 7th, 2003, 02:35 AM
Martian Kc, or is it that YOU donīt like the sisters because they are the biggest threat for your fav?! I think that is a more accurate stating of the situation.

If you must know, I couldn't stand them from the beginning of their careers. Talk about being respectable players early on. :lol:

Martian KC
Dec 7th, 2003, 02:37 AM
why is it one person's opinion always represents the rest of us? do you do that in every day life too?

is it SERIOUSLY that hard to think that maybe people didn't vote for Justine just because they prefer Kim :rolleyes: is it SERIOUSLY that hard to think that some people didn't like Justine as soon as they saw her? is it SERIOUSLY hard to see the BLATANT reasons why she may not be voted most popular player?

if this "incident" had been the other way round, i'm sure you would be proclaiming to the world the unsportsmanlike behaviour of those blasted sisters.

i just wanted to know when not liking Justine because she is the biggest threat became the only reason not to like her :lol: stop hiding behind the facade that one incident is the reason why people don't like her ;)

LMAO! Did you even read the posts in this thread? It's clustered with willifans stating the same exact thing. I used to like Justine until her "unsportmanlike" actions this year. :lol: Please, willifans as usual are just full of bull.

And I do think serena was unsportmanslike. READ THE DAMN POSTS FIRST BEFORE YOU STARTING TRYING BUILD AN ARGUMENT!:haha:

Venus Forever
Dec 7th, 2003, 02:48 AM
My point exactly! :worship:

Read my reply to this post, and you will see how wrong your point is. ;)

Venus Forever
Dec 7th, 2003, 02:49 AM
I was hardly just refering to people in this thread. Try reading the quote again... a little more slowly this time :devil:



You haven't, actually, or you would neither respond to me nor give me some form of reputation based on what I wrote. You have done everything BUT ignore me.



General Messages is. If you think that a lot of intelligent debate occurs in this forum, then that explains a LOT about you ;)



Tell me who "we" is and I'll consider answering this question.



I debate on many topics.... I just don't consider 99% of the threads in GM worthy of my abilities, ya know? :)

As for not being able to form an opinion and being stupid... uh yes, itsy bitsy ego, whatever makes you feel better ;) Also assume that I'm fat and ugly, a tactic that has helped some of your fellow posters who also suffer from ego issues in the past :devil:

:yawn: :yawn: :yawn:

bandabou
Dec 7th, 2003, 03:00 AM
If you must know, I couldn't stand them from the beginning of their careers. Talk about being respectable players early on. :lol:

So then why is it that williams-fans only hate Justine because she is a threat?! Isnīt it possible that some of them didnīt like Justine from the beginning, just like you didnīt like the Williamses from the beginning?!

~ The Leopard ~
Dec 7th, 2003, 03:09 AM
Rebecca is fat and ugly? Nah, we all know she is booootiful. :angel:

justine&coria
Dec 7th, 2003, 08:16 AM
This is an unfair poll, because there are a lot of Justine haters, whereas not many Clijsters haters !!!

SJW
Dec 7th, 2003, 10:08 AM
LMAO! Did you even read the posts in this thread? It's clustered with willifans stating the same exact thing. I used to like Justine until her "unsportmanlike" actions this year. :lol: Please, willifans as usual are just full of bull.

And I do think serena was unsportmanslike. READ THE DAMN POSTS FIRST BEFORE YOU STARTING TRYING BUILD AN ARGUMENT!:haha:

my bad, i was assuming you knew the rules of tennis

i guess if the incident was the other way around, you would suddenly find a way of becoming intelligent

you bracket Williams fans day in day out....that's the sad part :o

i did read your posts, but i must say all it shows is your manic obsession with using a certain phrase for a certain group of people.

once you show the slightest bit of maturity, i'll consider in taking you seriously.

SJW
Dec 7th, 2003, 10:09 AM
This is an unfair poll, because there are a lot of Justine haters, whereas not many Clijsters haters !!!

do you want me to make a "who do you hate more, Clijsters or Henin" poll then?

i'm sure Henin would beat Kimmy like it was the finals of the French Open

azza
Dec 7th, 2003, 10:10 AM
Kim :)

Nica
Dec 7th, 2003, 10:15 AM
This is an unfair poll, because there are a lot of Justine haters, whereas not many Clijsters haters !!!
:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:
:tape: the funniest thing i've ever heard :tape:

Aussie_Kim
Dec 7th, 2003, 10:46 AM
Kim of course.
(she is soo sweet.) I have met her and she was lovely and I have supported her ever since.
Plus she cheers for the Aussies which goes down well with me!!

partyzantka
Dec 7th, 2003, 11:05 AM
I have never really liked both of them, but since last RG, I have a lot of love and support for Kimmy. She's just a nice girl. I'm not gonna say anything wrong about Justine, but she'll never be in my heart.

Tompier
Dec 7th, 2003, 11:11 AM
If I have to choose between 2 of them i would pick KIm. Her behaviour to other players is just great and fair play.

Zl@tko
Dec 7th, 2003, 11:41 AM
Kim :)

~ The Leopard ~
Dec 7th, 2003, 11:59 AM
Hmmmmm, running about 60:40 in Kimmie's favour. I think that is to be expected. I'd guess that Kim would do as well against almost any other player, on this board.

minboy
Dec 7th, 2003, 12:04 PM
What they did did not affect the play of the match, and its possible outcome. They also didn't try to justify what they did wrong. Justine never admitted she was wrong, in fact, she stated that she thought it was the right thing to do, which is discrediting women's tennis. What's the point of rules in tennis if you are not going to follow them, and you make up your own rules?



You've obviously never played tennis before then. It's not always possible to determine whether a point was a double bounce with absolute certainty. You are never certain, especially if the player hits the ball right after it bounces for the second time. I saw the play, and it was one of those that it was even hard to determine whether it was a double bounce on a much slower replay. The commentators had to slow the tape up to conclusively determine it was a double bounce.



Hey, I read the interview today, and no where does she say that she "beat herself." She said she played badly, which she did, but no where did she say she beat herself. She gave credit to Justine:

SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, she played really excellent today. She had a good plan going out there, and you know, she was prepared and she was ready, and it all worked. So it all worked for her, and she was on today, and she was really fighting, and you know, she did a great job.

She believes she played 9,000 notches below her norm, which she did. She still gave credit to Justine for the win. Serena playing badly doesn't take ANYTHING away from Justine, she still played great, and although Serena recognizes that, she also realizes she could play a lot better. What's wrong with thinking you played bad, especially when it's the truth??



Then why are you bringing it up??



What are you talking about?? Where is the changing of my point?? Serena respected her opponents by admitting they played better, just re-read the quote from Serena at Charleston. HOWEVER, she also had respect for herself that she can play better. What's wrong with having respect for her own game??



I definitely see how it may change the outcome of a match, but it wasn't in Tim's control. You don't know what Tim thought or saw, and I don't know what he thought or saw. There's a difference. We do know what Justine thought and did. She justified her actions with the same excuse all of the Justine fans are giving, that Serena saw her hand and continued to serve anyway, which doesn't make sense since Justine's hand went up when the ball was already in the air, Serena's racket was brought back, and eyes were looking up at the ball. Then you all say, "so, it didn't affect Serena's serve in anyway, she shouldn't have replayed the point." Well, when a ballball drops a ball by mistake in the middle of the point, or a napkin flies onto the court, and the umpire calls "let" and replays the point by getting a first serve, did either of those things affect the serve or the point?? No, they didn't, but it's the rules. When such a thing happens, the point becomes invalid and must be started all over again, just as when one opponent is not ready, yet the other player initiates the point; it's still invalid.


1. i stated earlier that justine was wrong, because the rules say she must haave told the umpire. STill, it wasn't such a big deal in comparison with what others players have done sometimes, but you seem to forgive them pretty quickly. TRy to read what i wrote, it would be eaiser year for u to respond me.

2.THere is actually a difference between commentators who see point through their tv monitor, whose images come from camera, and the player who has his eyes RIGHT on the ball! You can ALWAYS tell when a ball bounced twice, because 1. you can see it( otherwise, there is a serious need of wearing glasses), and 2. the effect of the ball in your racquet will be different as it is played right before it bounced ( meaning the ball goes down ) or right after it ( meaning the ball goes up ). AS a player, you can feel the difference of effects in your racquet. Maybe you never did hold a racquet in your hand

3. NO, u didn't read the interview, because it was a TV interview on belgian tv, so you cannot have read it or see it. ONce again, try to read what i wrote, if it isn't too hard for u

4. I brought serena exemple to point out double standards ( as i said earlier)

5. please, you wre talkn about disrescpect first, then once i refuted your point, you've changed it. Too easy

6. AGAIN!!!! i never said the first serve shouldn't have been given ! Damned, read what i wrote !!!!!

Melly Flew Us
Dec 7th, 2003, 12:16 PM
i like juju coz she's tough
i like kimmie coz she's not.

(opinion subject to change)

Lady
Dec 7th, 2003, 02:34 PM
Hmmmmm, running about 60:40 in Kimmie's favour. I think that is to be expected. I'd guess that Kim would do as well against almost any other player, on this board.

Actually I'm surprised that it's so close. ;) I thought the difference will be bigger :angel:

bandabou
Dec 7th, 2003, 02:58 PM
But minboy I still donīt see the paralell between Serenaīs comments BEFORE or AFTER a match and Justineīs actions who were DURING the match. Are the two situations comparable?!

It is DURING the match that you have to respect your opponent and thatīs what Justine failed to do. You bringing up some interviews and stuff AFTER a match is just desperate....those words donīt have NO influence on a match-outcome and Justineīs actions DID!

minboy
Dec 7th, 2003, 03:55 PM
once AGAIN ( try to read damned!! ), venus forever said he/she was blaming justine because she showed disrespect towards her opponent. Before, during or after a march, disrespect is still disrespect! GOt it now?

and AGAIN ( pfffff ), i don't blame serena for her words, just pointing out double standards!

is READING that difficult?

Venus Forever
Dec 7th, 2003, 04:02 PM
1. i stated earlier that justine was wrong, because the rules say she must haave told the umpire. STill, it wasn't such a big deal in comparison with what others players have done sometimes, but you seem to forgive them pretty quickly. TRy to read what i wrote, it would be eaiser year for u to respond me.

2.THere is actually a difference between commentators who see point through their tv monitor, whose images come from camera, and the player who has his eyes RIGHT on the ball! You can ALWAYS tell when a ball bounced twice, because 1. you can see it( otherwise, there is a serious need of wearing glasses), and 2. the effect of the ball in your racquet will be different as it is played right before it bounced ( meaning the ball goes down ) or right after it ( meaning the ball goes up ). AS a player, you can feel the difference of effects in your racquet. Maybe you never did hold a racquet in your hand

3. NO, u didn't read the interview, because it was a TV interview on belgian tv, so you cannot have read it or see it. ONce again, try to read what i wrote, if it isn't too hard for u

4. I brought serena exemple to point out double standards ( as i said earlier)

5. please, you wre talkn about disrescpect first, then once i refuted your point, you've changed it. Too easy

6. AGAIN!!!! i never said the first serve shouldn't have been given ! Damned, read what i wrote !!!!!

Boy, you talk about other people needing the glasses, because you are definitely not reading any of my posts.

1. It was a big deal, and even a bigger deal because it was a very crucial point in the match that could have affected the outcome of the match. It was also a bigger deal because she justified her actions, and didn't even admit she was wrong.

2. Wow, you must have X-ray vision. I'm sure you can tell when a ball hits the line or goes out too, huh?? Even instant replay sometimes can't determine whether a ball's in or out, but I'm sure you can. Same thing with a double bounce, some still need a re-play otherwise. And don't give me that Bullshit that you can tell. I've played the, and these situations have come up, but I was never 100% certain. I've claimed other people hit it on a double bounce, but they didn't think so. I wasn't sure if I may have hit a few off a double bounce. And don't give me that other Bullshit of feel. Oh please, I've never heard so much crap before in my life. Now we're supposed to know how it feels before it bounces and just after it bounces. Who came up with that crap?? And just because someone's eyes are on the ball doesn't make it certain. All those line judges do is watch the ball and the line, yet sometimes still make errors, same thing goes for players and umpires. If your eyes are so great and you're right everytime, maybe you should become a chair umpire.

3. Once again, I DID read the interview as it is right here:

SERENA WILLIAMS vs.

JUSTINE HENIN-HARDENNE (w)



6-3, 6-4





Q. Talk about your streak being over.

SERENA WILLIAMS: I wasn't as involved as you guys were, so you guys will have to answer that.

Q. For the last three days you faced the No. 6, the No. 5 and the No. 4 tennis players in the world. That's gotta be mentally draining to play at that level compared to what ‑‑ Justine didn't have that kind of road coming in. Can you talk a little bit about that maintaining that effort?

SERENA WILLIAMS: I don't think it was hard. I can play the best in the world. It doesn't matter to me because eventually you're going to have to face up to them, so for me it doesn't matter who I play. I don't think it was mentally draining at all.

Q. Is it one of those days where you just kind of go out, you maybe don't feel your best?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah. I just didn't play well. I made way too many errors every time I tried to hit a ball. My forehand, which is my stronger side, I missed. It was a little discouraging, but it's all right.

Q. You didn't get the net courts going your way either.

SERENA WILLIAMS: No. I didn't get any ‑‑ my strokes were ‑‑ today was just an off day, and you can't be on your off day against a top player, maybe against a lower ranked, maybe I would have had a chance, but even then it would have been tough.

Q. Was that part of her taking you out of your game at all?

SERENA WILLIAMS: No. I've practiced that. Actually I like when people hit high balls and things of that nature. I just kept missing.

Q. It looked like she was really mixing it up a lot, a lot of slice and top spins and things. Did that frustrate you at all?

SERENA WILLIAMS: No. I actually like when people hit high balls and stuff. You know, I actually practice that, so it's okay.

Q. You said before, I think it was maybe at the year‑end championships, after the Clijsters lost, the way you were happy because you were going to go into the Australian maybe a little more motivated.

SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah. And sometimes you need to lose. Like I'm so motivated now. I can just feel it coming on again. So you gotta watch out.

Q. Compare that feeling with what you talked about. You said you wanted to go undefeated, how you lost ‑‑

SERENA WILLIAMS: Like I said, you know, I set my goals for the sky. That doesn't necessarily mean I get them. It's okay because it's hard to do that, but like I said, I think you guys dwelled on it more than I did.

Q. A couple times you guys were banging away at each other from the back line. And in the past over the course of the week most people would break down after a while, but she just kept hanging in there, and then you went for a couple shots as opposed to just continuing to wear her down. Can you talk a little bit about her play?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, she played really excellent today. She had a good plan going out there, and you know, she was prepared and she was ready, and it all worked. So it all worked for her, and she was on today, and she was really fighting, and you know, she did a great job.

Q. Serena, did she have a better chance against you on this surface than she might have if it had been a faster surface?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, certainly I prefer red clay over green clay, so once I get on the red clay ‑‑ I don't know. I love the French clay, and I just love it. So I can't say that ‑‑ I mean maybe she would stand a better chance on a clay court, but I love the clay.

Q. What is the difference between the two clays?

SERENA WILLIAMS: I don't know. I would imagine the red is slower, but I don't know why I like it more.

Q. You didn't have many 115 mile‑an‑hour serves today as you had against Lindsay and previously.

SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah. I mean my whole game was like 9,000 notches down, so it's just ‑‑ you know, I can't be on my top level every day, and today's just one of those days I just didn't play well. I didn't serve well, I didn't return well. I didn't hit well. You know, it's just one of those days.

Q. You had a streak of 25 points that you lost 22 of them in the first set. Have you ever had a streak like that before?

SERENA WILLIAMS: I don't keep up with stats. I'm sorry.

Q. What did it feel like out there?

SERENA WILLIAMS: It was kind of hot.

Q. I realize that, but from a tennis standpoint. How did that ‑‑

SERENA WILLIAMS: You know, I didn't take notice of that at all.

Q. Did you go back to your notes at all during that portion of the match?

SERENA WILLIAMS: I'm sure I did, but you know, it's just ‑‑ it's like ‑‑ I want to say, "whatever," you know.

Q. Could you repeat that?

4. Where was the double standard?? Serena gave her opponents the credit they deserved, in fact, it's right there in the interview itself. She said Justine played excellent, where's the lack of respect. Yes, she did play badly, but how is that a lack of respect, because she DID play badly. She has enough respect of her own game to realize this and point it out. She still gave credit to Justine, but she is also honest with herself and everyone else with her level of play.

5. How have I changed my point?? In your eyes, Serena disrespected her opponent, and that's it. Justine disrespected her opponent, the chair umpire, and women's tennis in general, then tried to justify her actions. What Serena did, did not change the outcome of a match or have the potential to do that, Justine did. They are two different arguments, and not a good example by you.

Crazy_Fool
Dec 7th, 2003, 04:05 PM
Who cares what she said afterwards. I watched that entire match. i wont say half of what i want to. simply this:
serena stopped play half way through ralleys WHEN she thought the ball was out, even when there was no call!
she would complain at every decision made and make the umpire come out of his chair needlessly!
she asked for several points tobe replayed because she "wasnt ready" in order to break Henin's serving rhythm, whenever she lost a couple of points in a row.

Its sad that ppl still think Henin is cheating to this day.

bandabou
Dec 7th, 2003, 04:05 PM
You mean like Justine saying: " I use my brain to beat them, they are scared of me, this and that." is showing respect?! So now we have on and off the court....still wanna discuss?!

But of course I can hear from where you are coming! Liege, Belgium.....of course you wonīt admit anything bad about beloved Juju. Itīs cool, man.

bandabou
Dec 7th, 2003, 04:09 PM
Who cares what she said afterwards. I watched that entire match. i wont say half of what i want to. simply this:
serena stopped play half way through ralleys WHEN she thought the ball was out, even when there was no call!
she would complain at every decision made and make the umpire come out of his chair needlessly!
she asked for several points tobe replayed because she "wasnt ready" in order to break Henin's serving rhythm, whenever she lost a couple of points in a row.

Its sad that ppl still think Henin is cheating to this day.

And when the umpire came down, what was his decision?! Did he acknowledge Serena was right or not?! Thank you very much.....your case has been dismissed.

Crazy_Fool
Dec 7th, 2003, 04:11 PM
So you're cristicing Henin for one thing while Serena was doing stuff all the time. Fair enough but if she werent ready, she werent ready.

bandabou
Dec 7th, 2003, 04:14 PM
But Serena was RIGHT!!!! all the times she questioned the calls! When someone is RIGHT, what more is there to say?!

So you want her to let wrong calls go by, just like that?! If she saw the balls out, the linesmen donīt call it out and there is a mark....why shouldnīt she call the umpire to let him the mark?!

Your argument is real stupid...

Crazy_Fool
Dec 7th, 2003, 04:18 PM
Aiight, but your argument about Henin cheating is stupid as well. Cos at the end of the day she didnt do anything that any other player wouldnt have done if she wasnt ready. Ok lets just leave and say u think something and i think something else.

SerialKiller#69
Dec 7th, 2003, 04:19 PM
I like both for different reasons. Kim because she's an underdog in terms of performance against the top players. Justine because she's feisty and the most complete player in the tour at the moment. I should say Justine though because I prefer her kind of gamestyle by a bit.

Venus Forever
Dec 7th, 2003, 04:22 PM
Who cares what she said afterwards. I watched that entire match. i wont say half of what i want to. simply this:
serena stopped play half way through ralleys WHEN she thought the ball was out, even when there was no call!
she would complain at every decision made and make the umpire come out of his chair needlessly!
she asked for several points tobe replayed because she "wasnt ready" in order to break Henin's serving rhythm, whenever she lost a couple of points in a row.

Its sad that ppl still think Henin is cheating to this day.

What's your point, any player has the right to stop play in the middle of a point, especially when they are right. There are no rules against that, just like Justine was allowed to hold up her hand.

Sportsmanship comes into play however, when Justine didn't admit to the umpire that she held her hand up and asked for time, which Serena pointed out, where she was right once again. The hand incident itself is within the rules, but Justine purposely withholding the fact that she held her handup just to get a second serve is not in the rules, and clearly goes against the rules which allows a point to be re-played if the opponent is not ready.

Your argument is faulty.

minboy
Dec 7th, 2003, 04:25 PM
Boy, you talk about other people needing the glasses, because you are definitely not reading any of my posts.

1. It was a big deal, and even a bigger deal because it was a very crucial point in the match that could have affected the outcome of the match. It was also a bigger deal because she justified her actions, and didn't even admit she was wrong.

2. Wow, you must have X-ray vision. I'm sure you can tell when a ball hits the line or goes out too, huh?? Even instant replay sometimes can't determine whether a ball's in or out, but I'm sure you can. Same thing with a double bounce, some still need a re-play otherwise. And don't give me that Bullshit that you can tell. I've played the, and these situations have come up, but I was never 100% certain. I've claimed other people hit it on a double bounce, but they didn't think so. I wasn't sure if I may have hit a few off a double bounce. And don't give me that other Bullshit of feel. Oh please, I've never heard so much crap before in my life. Now we're supposed to know how it feels before it bounces and just after it bounces. Who came up with that crap?? And just because someone's eyes are on the ball doesn't make it certain. All those line judges do is watch the ball and the line, yet sometimes still make errors, same thing goes for players and umpires. If your eyes are so great and you're right everytime, maybe you should become a chair umpire.

3. Once again, I DID read the interview as it is right here:



4. Where was the double standard?? Serena gave her opponents the credit they deserved, in fact, it's right there in the interview itself. She said Justine played excellent, where's the lack of respect. Yes, she did play badly, but how is that a lack of respect, because she DID play badly. She has enough respect of her own game to realize this and point it out. She still gave credit to Justine, but she is also honest with herself and everyone else with her level of play.

5. How have I changed my point?? In your eyes, Serena disrespected her opponent, and that's it. Justine disrespected her opponent, the chair umpire, and women's tennis in general, then tried to justify her actions. What Serena did, did not change the outcome of a match or have the potential to do that, Justine did. They are two different arguments, and not a good example by you.


All i can say is :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

1. Onca again ( damn, i 'm getting bored of saying the same thing over and over again JUST because you can't or don't want to read ), i didn't say justine was right. The rules are the rules, and she should have respcted them. STill, i fail to see on a point THAT IS NOT EVEN PLAYED can affect the outcome of a match.

2. No, i don't have x-ray visions, but when somethin happens at 1 metres of my eyes, i can see it! I can't say when i see it on telly, because i don't have my eyes right on it .But The players don't look the balls through telly, they are actually on the court!! About the lines judges they too are at least 4 or 5 metres of the ball, and they have to judge FAST balls. IN the case of a dropshot, the ball is SLOW, which means it is easier to see its trajectoire.
And yes, you can feel the ball.. When a ball comes down, it is heavier on the racquet. When a ball comes up, it's not lighter. I mean, that's a scientific thing, you can't even refute it!!

3. once again, that is not the interview i was talkin' about!! ( read what i said for once ). don't know why serena changed her views between 2 interviews

4. The double standards i pointed out is not only directed to serena, but to players who had showed 'disrespect' ( since you seem to care alot about it ) and acted unsportsmanlike sometimes in their career. Forgiving certain and not others seems double standards to me

5. At FIRST, you were only talkin about disrespect( disrespect before, during or after a match is still disrescpect ). ONce i refuted your point, you say " what justine did change the outcome of the match". SO, i mean, be coherent ( or at least try to ) Wether you blame her for disrespect -then u have to blame a whole bunch of players- or wether you say AT FIRST that YOU think it did change the outcome of the match. ( again, i can recognize that wwhat justine did was wrong. STill it didn't even count for a point, so it's hard to say it did change the outcome of the match )

NOw, whatever you're gonna say, there's a BIG chance that my respnse is ALREADY written above

Crazy_Fool
Dec 7th, 2003, 04:45 PM
The incident is minor but still there are some people who cant move on.

Venus Forever
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:04 PM
1. Onca again ( damn, i 'm getting bored of saying the same thing over and over again JUST because you can't or don't want to read ), i didn't say justine was right. The rules are the rules, and she should have respcted them. STill, i fail to see on a point THAT IS NOT EVEN PLAYED can affect the outcome of a match.

2. No, i don't have x-ray visions, but when somethin happens at 1 metres of my eyes, i can see it! I can't say when i see it on telly, because i don't have my eyes right on it .But The players don't look the balls through telly, they are actually on the court!! About the lines judges they too are at least 4 or 5 metres of the ball, and they have to judge FAST balls. IN the case of a dropshot, the ball is SLOW, which means it is easier to see its trajectoire.
And yes, you can feel the ball.. When a ball comes down, it is heavier on the racquet. When a ball comes up, it's not lighter. I mean, that's a scientific thing, you can't even refute it!!

3. once again, that is not the interview i was talkin' about!! ( read what i said for once ). don't know why serena changed her views between 2 interviews

4. The double standards i pointed out is not only directed to serena, but to players who had showed 'disrespect' ( since you seem to care alot about it ) and acted unsportsmanlike sometimes in their career. Forgiving certain and not others seems double standards to me

5. At FIRST, you were only talkin about disrespect( disrespect before, during or after a match is still disrescpect ). ONce i refuted your point, you say " what justine did change the outcome of the match". SO, i mean, be coherent ( or at least try to ) Wether you blame her for disrespect -then u have to blame a whole bunch of players- or wether you say AT FIRST that YOU think it did change the outcome of the match. ( again, i can recognize that wwhat justine did was wrong. STill it didn't even count for a point, so it's hard to say it did change the outcome of the match )

NOw, whatever you're gonna say, there's a BIG chance that my respnse is ALREADY written above

1. You don't see how a first serve might have affected the outcome of the match?? Considering the winning percentage off the first serve is usually a lot higher than the winning percentage off the second serve is how it could have changed the match. Serena could have gone up 40-0, and most likely up to 5-2, a very hard lead to lose. Seh had a better chance to do that with the first, then the second, but we'll never know thanks to Justine.

2. But, once again, you do not know things for sure. You don't know what Tim saw, you don't know what he was thinking, and you don't know anything besides what you saw. Yes, players normally keep their eye on the ball, but they also do take their eye off the ball. Look at pictures on Yahoo! or anywhere else, the ball is nearly on their racket, but their eyes are not even close to looking at it. You don't know what Tim saw, so you can't blame him. Justine knows what she did, and we all know that she knows. It's a totally different case.

3. I don't understand why Serena would give an interview to a Belgian TV cast, and not to the ESPN, that doesn't make sense. Maybe you're thinking of another match.

4. There is no double standard, as once again, Justine's case is different from the rest of them. Justine's case may have affected the outcome of the match, while the other's didn't. Justine disrespected more than just the other opponent, she disrespected the chair umpire, she disrespected the WTA Tour, and she even disrespected the fans, as I see it. She took the integrity out of the sport. Her case is so much more severe in my eyes than any of the other cases mentioned. It wasn't directed towards just the opponent, but to everyone watching the sport.

5. I don't think you quote understand. Yes, it wasn't actually a point that happened, but it SHOULD have happened, and it WOULD have happened if Justine admitted to the chair what she did, but she DIDN'T, which is why we are here. If the point was played, which it should have been, it could have changed the match, and now we will never know who would have really won. If Justine didn't withhold the truth from the umpire, we wouldn't be here talking about it, even if Justine still won. The Williams fans would still be mad, but not at Justine, but rather the crowd, so it's a very big deal to the fans. If the point was re-played, and Justine still won it, we wouldn't be here now talking about, but we'll never know now. That's the whole point, she could have changed the outcome of a match, and probably even the questioning of her sportsmanship would not even exist.

But again, her disrespect was to the sport in general, not to just her opponent, which is the case for all the others. It's completely different.

Venus Forever
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:09 PM
Players can't make their own rules, because there is an umpire. I don't know the specific rules about the hand incident, but it was up the umpire to take the right decision. Right after the incident, the only thing I saw is Henin being quite passive about the situation. I don't know if it was the best or normal way to react, but I find funny people are still talking about it.

Her passiveness is why we are talking about it. It's about sportsmanship, or the lack there of. Justine knew what she did, as do the rest of us.

Justine held her hand up because she wanted to take a few breathers and prevent the point from beginning. Serena began it anyway, and it was a fault. Serena saw Justine's hand up after the serve, and asked the umpire if she had a first serve. The umpire said no because he didn't see Justine's hand up. Justine invalidated the point right away, but when she saw that it was a fault, she pretended as nothing happened, and didn't confess to asking for time because she now had the advantage of a second serve.

bandabou
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:09 PM
Funny, minboy wanna compare a two-bounce with DENYING you raised your hand.....the first there can be no certainty but the other is CERTAIN because EVERYBODY saw it and Justine herself knows it too!

Venus Forever
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:10 PM
Funny, minboy wanna compare a two-bounce with DENYING you raised your hand.....the first there can be no certainty but the other is CERTAIN because EVERYBODY saw it and Justine herself knows it too!

This is exactly my point.

bandabou
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:12 PM
But Minboy is Belgian.....see when it is a Belgian: see no evil, hear no evil.

Tennisfan-Mtl
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:15 PM
Kim :D

Knizzle
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:21 PM
Who cares what she said afterwards. I watched that entire match. i wont say half of what i want to. simply this:
serena stopped play half way through ralleys WHEN she thought the ball was out, even when there was no call!
she would complain at every decision made and make the umpire come out of his chair needlessly!
she asked for several points tobe replayed because she "wasnt ready" in order to break Henin's serving rhythm, whenever she lost a couple of points in a row.

Its sad that ppl still think Henin is cheating to this day.

Should she have waited until they hit another 30 shots to challenge a call that she thought was out?? By then the mark could be gone. Like I'm sure someone said before she was RIGHT everytime. Had she been WRONG she would have LOST those points, but she was RIGHT. Justine, on the other hand was inciting the crowd on purpose by arguing calls that were so OBVIOUSLY out that the umpire didn't even want to leave his chair. The point before the hand thing Justine argued a call on the baseline and the umpire reluctantly got out of the chair and confirmed his call before he even got all the way up to the mark. Serena was like C'mon you CANNOT be seriously arguing this call. Justine was being petty. We all know what she pulled on the next point that will forever live in infamy.

bandabou
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:25 PM
Say no more, Kniz...say no more!

Venus Forever
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:26 PM
Right on!

bandabou
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:35 PM
It ainīt even disliking Justine....sheīs a great player, but she has some rough edges.

Knizzle
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:37 PM
Over the years I've seen much worst from many players. :o Just an example. On the final of Hamburg, Seles against Fernandez, the umpire made a mistake on the score in the third set tie-break. Something like 3-1 instead of 2-2. The crowd and Fernandez protested, and Seles stayed silent... It would be naive to think Seles didn't know what the score was.

If people don't like Henin for the H-I, I respect it. I'm not a big fan anyway. But it's very probable most people who changed drastically their opinion on Henin for that isolated incident didn't like her much or have other motive to dislike her. I mean, no one is forced to like her, but it sounds silly now to harp on a minor incident which happens months ago. The same apply to every player.

Integrity and sportsmanship is supposed to mean something in tennis. What she did is just grimey. She had a chance to say in the weeks after the match that she handled the situation wrong, but she didn't. To this day she admits nothing was out of the ordinary in that situation. Then on the day of the final to say that everyone today is happy except for the Williamses. She was/is holding a personal grudge against Serena and Venus. Just think what would have happened if Serena had done that?? Just think?? Justine got a pass. She should be grateful for that. It could have been ALOT worse.

shap_half
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:42 PM
Should she have waited until they hit another 30 shots to challenge a call that she thought was out?? By then the mark could be gone. Like I'm sure someone said before she was RIGHT everytime. Had she been WRONG she would have LOST those points, but she was RIGHT. Justine, on the other hand was inciting the crowd on purpose by arguing calls that were so OBVIOUSLY out that the umpire didn't even want to leave his chair. The point before the hand thing Justine argued a call on the baseline and the umpire reluctantly got out of the chair and confirmed his call before he even got all the way up to the mark. Serena was like C'mon you CANNOT be seriously arguing this call. Justine was being petty. We all know what she pulled on the next point that will forever live in infamy.

Inciting the crowd on purpose? Please :rolleyes:
Of course you know her motives. I don't care for this arguement at all but it seems blatantly foolish to label her actions to be one thing or another. Yes she should have stood up for the hand thing but to accuse her of using the French crowd against Serena is just based on bias and nothing else.

pigam
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:42 PM
*love is in the air* :angel: :hearts: :)

Knizzle
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:43 PM
Inciting the crowd on purpose? Please :rolleyes:
Of course you know her motives. I don't care for this arguement at all but it seems blatantly foolish to label her actions to be one thing or another. Yes she should have stood up for the hand thing but to accuse her of using the French crowd against Serena is just based on bias and nothing else.

Why else would she argue a call that was so obviously out after the ump TOLD her he was sure it was out and she still insisted he get out of the chair.

SJW
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:45 PM
Its sad that ppl still think Henin is cheating to this day.

not really...i've never said she cheated, but it's not sad. i know that if it was any other player, they would not have been exempt from this criticism.

if it was Serena/Venus/Kim, i could be the big enough person to come out and say she should have given her a second serve. but you know what, i don't have to worry about Serena, Venus or Kim doing something like that :)

SJW
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:46 PM
Just think what would have happened if Serena had done that?? Just think??

hehe read my above post :D

Allez-H
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:46 PM
Stop it!!!!!!!!!!
I'm soooooo tired of these conversations!

minboy
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:47 PM
venus forever : as I said earlier, read my previous posts, you'll find all my answers ( i mean, i KNEW you would show up with the same crap over and over again )

and Bandabou, what's the difference between not saying a ball bounced twice and not saying you helD your hand?

shap_half
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:49 PM
Why else would she argue a call that was so obviously out after the ump TOLD her he was sure it was out and she still insisted he get out of the chair.
I don't know. I don't know why people, other than myself, do the things they do. But YOU are using your bias to formulate a negative theory about her motives and nothing else.

Lady
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:49 PM
*love is in the air* :angel: :hearts: :)

:lol: Exactly :worship:

SJW
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:50 PM
what's the difference between not saying a ball bounced twice and not saying you helD your hand?

are you serious?

you often need tv replays over and over again to determine a double bounce

does Henin need replays to tell her whether she lifted her hand? :o

Knizzle
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:51 PM
I don't know for the medias, but on this board:

If Serena would have done that, basically a lot of people who attacked Henin would defend Serena, and the people who defended Henin would attack Serena.

We don't form our opinion on a person for one minor incident. People just look to find an excuse to dislike a player they are not fond with in the first place for whatever reason. The best example is Venus and Serena, with time I've read the most absurd reasons ever to not like them.

Speaking for myself personally, I was a fan of hers before she did that. I am still a fan of her game and I don't look at her and think "cheater", but she just lost cool points for her attitude and actions at the French and statements she made following.

pigam
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:52 PM
does Henin need replays to tell her whether she lifted her hand? :o
Well, she isn't exactly smart, and she used to wair glaces, the doping prolly messed with the sensations in her left arm too, so ... :unsure: :angel: ;)

Knizzle
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:52 PM
I don't know. I don't know why people, other than myself, do the things they do. But YOU are using your bias to formulate a negative theory about her motives and nothing else.

I may be forming a theory no doubt, but it's not because of a bias. It's because of what I saw with my own two eyes.

bandabou
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:53 PM
well....I donīt know why we are even having this discussion. Justine should just have opened her mouth and say that she raised her hand. Period.

Nothingīs gonna change that is the way it should have been, but Justine didnīt act it...

SJW
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:53 PM
Well, she isn't exactly smart, and she used to wair glaces, the doping prolly messed with the sensations in her left arm too, so ... :unsure: :angel: ;)

:haha:

:o

Knizzle
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:54 PM
well....I donīt know why we are even having this discussion. Justine should just have opened her mouth and say that she raised her hand. Period.

Nothingīs gonna change that is the way it should have been, but Justine didnīt act it...

Basically. She wasn't silent over there either she was getting upset with Serena and telling her to play.

bandabou
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:55 PM
Minboy, minboy...you donīt know the difference?! You are CERTAIN that you raised your hand and the other you CANīT know with certainty!

So donīt come with crap here....

bandabou
Dec 7th, 2003, 05:56 PM
And thatīs the thing....to deny you raised your hand and when Serenaīs complaining to the ump, to act angry and tell Serena to just play?!

SJW
Dec 7th, 2003, 06:01 PM
And thatīs the thing....to deny you raised your hand and when Serenaīs complaining to the ump, to act angry and tell Serena to just play?!

it's like ummmmm.....when you've done something wrong and your sibling goes and tells a parent....you're scared that they'll believe your sibling :o

luckily for Justine, that ump loves controversy

Venus Forever
Dec 7th, 2003, 06:02 PM
venus forever : as I said earlier, read my previous posts, you'll find all my answers ( i mean, i KNEW you would show up with the same crap over and over again )

and Bandabou, what's the difference between not saying a ball bounced twice and not saying you helD your hand?

Crap?? You're the one who claims to know what Tim Henman saw. :o

You don't know what he saw, and you could never prove it otherwise, unless he says he did.

Justine put up her hand, everyone saw it, she even admitted it, and she justified her wrong actions.

In one case we know with 100% certainty what the player knew and did, with the other case there is no certainty whatsoever.

If you can't see that, then you are just a hopeless cause who just can't make a point.

bandabou
Dec 7th, 2003, 06:03 PM
Yep....but itīs cool. Iīm sure the next time itīs gonna be different.

pigam
Dec 7th, 2003, 06:06 PM
Is 'sibling' actually an frequently used word? I never heard of it untill I started reading about Venus, Serena and their 'siblings' :confused:. Is it 'spoken language', or do you only use it when u write. ex. Do you tell a friend: 'I will ask my siblings to ...'
Just interested in the English language ;)

bandabou
Dec 7th, 2003, 06:06 PM
Crap?? You're the one who claims to know what Tim Henman saw. :o

You don't know what he saw, and you could never prove it otherwise, unless he says he did.

Justine put up her hand, everyone saw it, she even admitted it, and she justified her wrong actions.

In one case we know with 100% certainty what the player knew and did, with the other case there is no certainty whatsoever.

If you can't see that, then you are just a hopeless cause who just can't make a point.

Just the truth! But hey minboy is Belgian and you know how Belgians like to protect their idols...

Sad though....wonīt even admit that the two situations arenīt comparable. Justine KNOWS with CERTAINTY that she raised her hand....so minboy wanna tell us that Tim knew the ball bounced twice, but Justine doesnīt know she raised her hand?! Pathetic!

pigam
Dec 7th, 2003, 06:08 PM
Pathetic!
... yeah, some people really are ...

Venus Forever
Dec 7th, 2003, 06:08 PM
Is 'sibling' actually an frequently used word? I never heard of it untill I started reading about Venus, Serena and their 'siblings' :confused:. Is it 'spoken language', or do you only use it when u write. ex. Do you tell a friend: 'I will ask my siblings to ...'
Just interested in the English language ;)

Normally we refer to them just as my brother and sisters, but sibling is a word, but not used frequently.

pigam
Dec 7th, 2003, 06:09 PM
Thanx :)
This thread is usefull afterall

SJW
Dec 7th, 2003, 06:09 PM
Is 'sibling' actually an frequently used word? I never heard of it untill I started reading about Venus, Serena and their 'siblings' :confused:. Is it 'spoken language', or do you only use it when u write. ex. Do you tell a friend: 'I will ask my siblings to ...'
Just interested in the English language ;)

well um....most people say "do you have a brother or sister?"

it's just easier to say "sibling" :) it's not that common though i don't think

SJW
Dec 7th, 2003, 06:09 PM
haha i was beaten to it :o

pigam
Dec 7th, 2003, 06:11 PM
2nd time this thread ;)
But THANX anyway... Serenafans are really helpfull :smooch: ;)

SJW
Dec 7th, 2003, 06:15 PM
2nd time this thread ;)
But THANX anyway... Serenafans are really helpfull :smooch: ;)

ROTFLMFAO

ummmmmm....what a charmer :o;)