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BigTennisFan
Sep 24th, 2003, 03:47 AM
Ordinary working people who are liberal after age 40?

Ordinary people who are conservative before age 30?

Conservatives who believe that people who have fucked up their lives (dope, alcohol, babies that they can't afford, etc) should be given advantages in order to get on their feet?

Liberals who don't believe that people who have fucked up their lives (see above) should be given advantages to in order to get on their feet?

Conservatives who think that the private sector is not the answer to most problems?

Liberals who think that government is not the answer to most problems?


I am curious (blue :angel: )

GBFH
Sep 24th, 2003, 03:48 AM
i'm an ordinary conservative @ 21.

but i get it...gotta say no to everything else.

decemberlove
Sep 24th, 2003, 03:49 AM
well whats your definition of ordinary?

my dad is a liberal but hes also a pothead, so...

BigTennisFan
Sep 24th, 2003, 03:50 AM
i'm an ordinary conservative @ 21.

but i get it...gotta say no to everything else.

Dang GB, that was fast. You answered before I finished editing out my mis- :lol: spellings.

GBFH
Sep 24th, 2003, 03:51 AM
Dang GB, that was fast. You answered before I finished editing out my mis- :lol: spellings.

i suck :yeah:

BigTennisFan
Sep 24th, 2003, 04:05 AM
well whats your definition of ordinary?

my dad is a liberal but hes also a pothead, so...

Use your own definition of ordinary. Some would say that liberal and pothead is an expected coupling. Not moi, of course. Perish the thought. :o

Sam L
Sep 24th, 2003, 04:09 AM
I'm in the middle. There are some issues I agree with conservatives (death penalty) and some with liberals (abortion). I don't classify myself as a part of any group. I'm an individual. Oh and I'm under 30.

:angel:

BigTennisFan
Sep 24th, 2003, 04:18 AM
I'm in the middle. There are some issues I agree with conservatives (death penalty) and some with liberals (abortion). I don't classify myself as a part of any group. I'm an individual. Oh and I'm under 30.

:angel:

Sam L, Everybody is an individual. However there are positions that are more likely to be held by those on the Liberal/left and there are positions that are more likely to be held by those on the Conservative/right. Some of us lean more one way than another. :angel:

polishprodigy
Sep 24th, 2003, 04:49 AM
I am a "red Tory" as they say in Canada. I am a liberal conservative, I TEND to be fiscally liberal and socially conservative on most issues. and im under 30 ;)

gentenaire
Sep 24th, 2003, 07:33 AM
It's funny how you have a different definition of liberal than we do.

The opposite of concervative here is called progressive.

Liberalism is considered the opposite of socialism and refers more to economical issues, employment, and so on. So liberal is considered right, socialist left.

Our socialist party is pretty progressive, but would never use the label 'liberal'. Our current prime minister is from the liberal democrat party, which is progressive central-right. For the longest time, the christian democrats held power, they're conservative central- right.

My grandfather used to joke, "what does it take to become liberal?"

"a job"

other possible answer, " 10 years" ;)

Crazy Canuck
Sep 24th, 2003, 07:55 AM
My father is in his 50's, and he's a liberal. He's also a teacher... :)

Colin B
Sep 24th, 2003, 10:55 AM
It's funny how you have a different definition of liberal than we do.

Yes, I think that when ever we have these discussions.
Generally, in Europe, for 'conservative', read 'right-wing racist biggot', for 'liberal' read 'middle class intellectual' and everyone to the left is a socialist, ie, votes Labour. Things have become a lot more blurred in the last ten years or so, though.

There is an old saying in British politics which, I think, expresses BigTennisFan's point:

"If your not a Socialist at twenty, you haven't got a heart; if your not a conservative at thirty, you haven't got a head."

I've never been either, so I obviously have an abundance of both! :p ;)

CC
Sep 24th, 2003, 05:23 PM
[QUOTE=Colin B]Yes, I think that when ever we have these discussions.
Generally, in Europe, for 'conservative', read 'right-wing racist biggot', QUOTE]

:) in america it's pretty much the same too, colin. 'conservative' still reads 'right-wing racist biggot' for a lot of people.

According to Liberal Lexicon: A Conservative's Dictionary of Liberish:

Conservatives: The meanest, most evil, ignorant, arrogant, selfish, vicious, spiteful, hypocritical, greedy, brutal, immoral, mean spirited, negative bastards ever to walk the Earth. They hate everyone and everything. Completely without value or Compassion, willing tools of the International Business Community, they exploit and ruin everything they touch. They'd force people to live by working, force women to bear and raise inconvenient children, force old people out onto the streets to starve. They would turn back the course of history and create a worldwide medieval fiefdom with Rich Fat Cats lording it over a polluted planet of serfs. They'd put criminals in jail, or execute them just for fun. They want to see burning piles of homosexuals in the public square. They want to re-enslave Women and Minorities. Conservatives are murderous, destructive Nazis.

Colin B
Sep 24th, 2003, 11:56 PM
According to Liberal Lexicon: A Conservative's Dictionary of Liberish:

Conservatives: The meanest, most evil, ignorant, arrogant, selfish, vicious, spiteful, hypocritical, greedy, brutal, immoral, mean spirited, negative bastards ever to walk the Earth. They hate everyone and everything. Completely without value or Compassion, willing tools of the International Business Community, they exploit and ruin everything they touch. They'd force people to live by working, force women to bear and raise inconvenient children, force old people out onto the streets to starve. They would turn back the course of history and create a worldwide medieval fiefdom with Rich Fat Cats lording it over a polluted planet of serfs. They'd put criminals in jail, or execute them just for fun. They want to see burning piles of homosexuals in the public square. They want to re-enslave Women and Minorities. Conservatives are murderous, destructive Nazis.

OK, 'misogynistic right-wing racist bigots'.
I prefer mine - less verbose. ;)

Martian Willow
Sep 25th, 2003, 12:53 AM
...could someone (...preferably BTF...) clarify for me the difference between a liberal and a socialist...?

...thanks. :)

GBFH
Sep 25th, 2003, 01:43 AM
and what's the difference between a socialist and a communist? my dad says one's shit that floats, and the other's shit that sinks. is this accurate? :confused:

Martian Willow
Sep 25th, 2003, 01:51 AM
...no...communism is when the community owns everything...like a Kibbutz...often confused with Marxism...socialism is just like capitalism with higher taxes... :)

decemberlove
Sep 25th, 2003, 02:08 AM
...no...communism is when the community owns everything...like a Kibbutz...often confused with Marxism...socialism is just like capitalism with higher taxes... :)

"the community"? um, no. the state owns and controls everything in communism.

"dont you know the difference between the two economic systems? under capitalism, man exploits man. under communism, its just hte other way around" - emil vrabie

gentenaire
Sep 25th, 2003, 09:02 AM
Communism: Everyone gets the same, whether you work hard or don't work at all, you get the same size home, the same pay, the same health care, etc. Obviously, this doesn't really encourage people to work ;)

Socialism: everyone has a right to certain basic rights, so whether you're rich or poor shouldn't matter when it comes to getting an education, receiving health care, etc. Everyone should have a roof above his head and enough food to live on. Education is free (or at Uni depends on how much the parents earn), how much you pay for health care depends on how much you earn, etc. However, the more you earn, the more luxuries you can afford, the bigger your house, the bigger your car, more expensive clothes, more comfortable life, etc. So if you don't work, you'll survive, you don't end up on the street, but it's still tough to make ends meet. If you're unfortunate enough to grow up in a poor environment, it doesn't change your chances at University. Work hard, get an education, get a job and you'll suddenly find yourself in the exact same situation as someone who grew up in a rich environment and did the same studies as you.

In a purely capitalist environment, you work for yourself. You make enough money now and secure your future that way. This means that if you encounter bad luck along the way, suddenly all that money you saved might go down the drain and bye bye security. Also, this system encourages people to save money, rather than spend it. If you want a strong economy, people must spend.

With socialism, the people who work now, instead of saving the money for in the old days, spend it in a way on taxes, on a pension fund, the money goes to the elderly of today. Then when the working people of today are old, they'll receive money, made by the working people of that time. The problem we have with this system now is that the population is getting older and older, so the percentage of working people is getting lower and lower. So things need to change. Unfortunately, people refuse to see this. Just think of all the strikes in France when the government came up with their new pension plan.

No system is perfect. I prefer our welfare state to a capitalist state. The standard of living is usually very high in welfare states (socialism). These countries usually top the lists of the best places to live. So I find it rather strange that so many Americans consider socialism almost as bad as communism. Besides, the main idea behind communism is rather noble. Only, it's a system that can't possible work.

Colin B
Sep 25th, 2003, 10:46 AM
and what's the difference between a socialist and a communist? my dad says one's shit that floats, and the other's shit that sinks. is this accurate? :confused:
Put this to your dad:
Tony Blair - Socialist Prime Minister of Britain.
Jacques Chirac - Conservative President of France.

Martian Willow
Sep 25th, 2003, 01:03 PM
"the community"? um, no. the state owns and controls everything in communism.

"dont you know the difference between the two economic systems? under capitalism, man exploits man. under communism, its just hte other way around" - emil vrabie

...this is why I said '...often confused with Marxism...'... :)