PDA

View Full Version : Williams 2x vs Martina 2x


Volcana
Aug 26th, 2003, 01:48 PM
It's almost pointless posting this, because its the kind of topic this board just can't have a clear-headed conversation over. Nevertheless, here's the proposition.

Let's say i can get Warren buffet to put up ten million dollars for a charity exo. Two million to the winning team, eight million to the favorite charity of the winning team.

The competitors

Venus and Serena Williams vs Martina(s) Navratilova and Hingis

Who wins and why?

For the sake of the discussion, assume everyone is healthy and in condition. For Hingis, you can take January 2001 health and skill

Points to ponder:

1) Hingis/Seles beat Williams 2x the one time (that I know of) they played

2) Navratilova is 46

3) Williams 2x usually beats the #1 doubles team Suarez/Ruano-Pasqual

selesfan
Aug 26th, 2003, 01:51 PM
The Williams sisters would win.

Cariaoke
Aug 26th, 2003, 01:52 PM
I'm biased. :tape:

But seriously, I'd take the W/S.

Infiniti2001
Aug 26th, 2003, 01:55 PM
We will never know :tape:

bandabou
Aug 26th, 2003, 02:09 PM
That would be a great match-up, but I think that the sisters will win that. These girls when itīs about prestige and stuff they always play their best. Remember how they beat the glamour-team of Hingis- Kournikova at the French in ī99?!

Ryan
Aug 26th, 2003, 02:28 PM
I think Navratilova's serve would hamper the Martina's, but it held up in mixed doubles. I have no idea who would win, but I'll pick Martina N/H anyway.

Doris Loeffel
Aug 26th, 2003, 02:33 PM
Too bad I would have loved to see this match

you have 3 guess' who I'd be cheering for ;)

tommyk75
Aug 26th, 2003, 02:34 PM
The Williams sisters, without a doubt. Now if you had said both Martinas at their career-best form, then THERE would be a match-up!!! (And I'd go with the Martinas)

TonyP
Aug 26th, 2003, 02:37 PM
If you were talking about a fully mobile Hingis, then its hard to say. Under those circumstances, the deciding factor might be Navratilova's fitness and ability to stand up to a tough three setter.

Actually, I like the Hingis/Kournikova match up better frankly. Assuming both of them were completely healthy and had some practice in, I always like their chances against anyone. And don't take too much from their '99 meeting in the FO finals. Remember, that came one day after the worst day in Hingis' professional life and it still came down to something like 6-8 in the third set, and that was after Kournikova had a chance to serve for the match and blew it.

I basically like Hingis/Kournikova over the Willies, but it would be close.

bandabou
Aug 26th, 2003, 02:38 PM
The Williams sisters, without a doubt. Now if you had said both Martinas at their career-best form, then THERE would be a match-up!!! (And I'd go with the Martinas)

You have got one weak serve there and one whom I donīt think it would be strong enough against two pretty much untouachable serves... i donīt think even the best doubles-insticts can overcome weak serves.

Volcana
Aug 26th, 2003, 03:15 PM
If you were talking about a fully mobile Hingis, then its hard to say.

No fun in Hingis with limited mobility is there?

I basically like Hingis/Kournikova over the Willies, but it would be close.

Kournikova's a head case. OTOH, she had by far her best doubles success with Hingis. To my mind, that makes her a low rent Pam Shriver, but you never know. Four years later, the Willies are far better (and more accomplished) doubles players. And they won then.

The match would break box office records though.

skanky~skanketta
Aug 26th, 2003, 03:28 PM
fyi:vivi-pascual are NOT the #1 dubs team anymore. and the sisters would win.

Volcana
Aug 26th, 2003, 03:54 PM
fyi:vivi-pascual are NOT the #1 dubs team anymore.

Yeah but they play doubles like an instructional video.

hingis-seles
Aug 26th, 2003, 04:09 PM
Volcana, Hingis/Seles def Williams/Williams the 1st time they played as a team. Williams/Williams were the reigning Wimbledon and Olympic champions.

They played two weeks later in the semifinals of the Australian Open, with Williams/Williams winning that match.

raquel
Aug 26th, 2003, 04:14 PM
If everyone is fit and healthy the Williams sisters would win, but only because Martina N's serve is too weak to cope against Venus and Serena's returns therefore leaving Hingis vulernable at net, and having to cover for Martina N. Venus and Serena showed at Wimbledon that they are not invincible with a close match against Morariu/Stubbs and then losing to Dementieva/Krasnoroutskaya, but Hingis and Navratilova dont have Lina and Elena's powerful groundstrokes and returns, therefore V & S would win :)

TonyP
Aug 26th, 2003, 04:21 PM
Kournikova, when healthy and particularly when playing with Hingis, is a great doubles player. There results speak for themselves and they didn't win because of superior size or strength.

I do NOT believe the Williams sisters are particularly great doubles players. They simply overpower most of their oppoents. Sorry, but their victories in doubles are do to superior size and strength and not much else.

bandabou
Aug 26th, 2003, 06:33 PM
Kournikova, when healthy and particularly when playing with Hingis, is a great doubles player. There results speak for themselves and they didn't win because of superior size or strength.

I do NOT believe the Williams sisters are particularly great doubles players. They simply overpower most of their oppoents. Sorry, but their victories in doubles are do to superior size and strength and not much else.

Get a life, will ya?! well at least theyīre using their strenghts to their advantage! And what exactly is a great doubles player to you then?!

Donīt come with Anna-crap, because the Williamses beat her and Hingis most of the time.....donīt come with the only-power thing, īcause either youīre great or youīre not.

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 26th, 2003, 06:37 PM
No disrespect to Williams sisters ability but pair them to anyone rank below ten and see if they could pass quarters of a grandslam doubles. A serena-navratilova pair-up before did'nt do any damage at all.

bandabou
Aug 26th, 2003, 06:41 PM
No disrespect to Williams sisters ability but pair them to anyone rank below ten and see if they could pass quarters of a grandslam doubles. A serena-navratilova pair-up before did'nt do any damage at all.

And like Lindsay would?! Every partnership needs an adjustment period... you canīt start winning from the bat. It was the first time Serena and Martina N played together...

Besides Serena DID win a tournament with Alexandra and to my knowledge Alexandra ainīt no top 10!

TonyP
Aug 26th, 2003, 06:56 PM
The Williams sisters to my knowledge beat Hingis/Kournikova just once.

And great doubles involves strategy.

The Willies just cover the net well because of their size and slam the ball very hard against whoever is on the other side of the net. You can often watch them and see that they don't even understand doubles strategy.

Sorry, strength is what wins it for them. Hingis is by far the better doubles player and her record of nine slam titles, including a calendar year grand slam proves it. So do her 36 doubles titles to their 16.

ALPHA
Aug 26th, 2003, 06:59 PM
[. . .]

Every partnership needs an adjustment period... you canīt start winning from the bat.

[. . .]




Spice Girls teamed up first time for Australian Open 1999 and were victorious in their debut event.

After 10 months break they reunited for Filderstadt 2000 in Spetember and ... were victorious again.

raquel
Aug 26th, 2003, 07:05 PM
Sorry, strength is what wins it for them. Hingis is by far the better doubles player and her record of nine slam titles, including a calendar year grand slam proves it. So do her 36 doubles titles to their 16.
Martina has 36 titles because she played doubles at every event she played singles. If the Williams sisters played the same events and played doubles too they would have a lot more than 16 titles, but they only really play the Grand Slams these days, so Hingis's 36 titles does not prove she is a better doubles player than Venus or Serena. Strength wins doubles Grand Slams for Venus and Serena, Hingis won through logic and touch, but does that really make her any better a doubles player just because she did not use power? At the end of the day it does not matter how you win, it is that you win, so therefore I think Venus and Serena's tactics make them just as good doubles players as Hingis, because they win.

Volcana
Aug 26th, 2003, 07:15 PM
Volcana, Hingis/Seles def Williams/Williams the 1st time they played as a team. Williams/Williams were the reigning Wimbledon and Olympic champions.

They played two weeks later in the semifinals of the Australian Open, with Williams/Williams winning that match.

Thanks for the tip. I only saw the one match.

Volcana
Aug 26th, 2003, 07:18 PM
Sorry, but their victories in doubles are do to superior size and strength and not much else.

Their victories are due to being the best female doubles team on the planet. And while YOUR inability to see anything in either of their games besides size and strength are well noted, that's an indictment of your lacking powers of observation, not them lacking skill.

bandabou
Aug 26th, 2003, 07:27 PM
Their victories are due to being the best female doubles team on the planet. And while YOUR inability to see anything in either of their games besides size and strength are well noted, that's an indictment of your lacking powers of observation, not them lacking skill.

Very well said!

bandabou
Aug 26th, 2003, 07:30 PM
The Williams sisters to my knowledge beat Hingis/Kournikova just once.

And great doubles involves strategy.

The Willies just cover the net well because of their size and slam the ball very hard against whoever is on the other side of the net. You can often watch them and see that they don't even understand doubles strategy.

Sorry, strength is what wins it for them. Hingis is by far the better doubles player and her record of nine slam titles, including a calendar year grand slam proves it. So do her 36 doubles titles to their 16.

Doesnīt matter how you win! Winning is winning.....and besides there ainīt a perfect way to play doubles! Some use power, other use touch....whatīs the big deal?! Still,You canīt win with only one of the aspects.

pReUrBrIyN
Aug 26th, 2003, 07:32 PM
You've got to be kidding me. How can any of you even considering the Williams Sisters losing there is no way they would lose...NO WAY.

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 26th, 2003, 08:38 PM
And like Lindsay would?! Every partnership needs an adjustment period... you canīt start winning from the bat. It was the first time Serena and Martina N played together...

Besides Serena DID win a tournament with Alexandra and to my knowledge Alexandra ainīt no top 10!

Hey Idiot!!!!! how come Lindsay name comes into this discussion????
For your info, lindsay WON tons of doubles titles and 3 GS doubles titles on different surfaces and DIFFERENT partners.

Can you tell me when and whom Serena and Alexanda beat at that particular tournament????

bandabou
Aug 26th, 2003, 10:01 PM
Hey Idiot!!!!! how come Lindsay name comes into this discussion????
For your info, lindsay WON tons of doubles titles and 3 GS doubles titles on different surfaces and DIFFERENT partners.

Can you tell me when and whom Serena and Alexanda beat at that particular tournament????

Donīt even start me with Lindsay. Lindsay was always on the losing end against the sisters....so she isnīt even worth discussing....

carot
Aug 26th, 2003, 10:10 PM
Donīt even start me with Lindsay. Lindsay was always on the losing end against the sisters....so she isnīt even worth discussing....
then why did *you* bring her into this discussion?

on topic - i would prefer to see a Willies vs Spice Girls match up again, oh if only that rivalry would have gotten more time to develop. it would have given so much publicity for the doubles tour. :)

Knizzle
Aug 26th, 2003, 10:14 PM
then why did *you* bring her into this discussion?

on topic - i would prefer to see a Willies vs Spice Girls match up again, oh if only that rivalry would have gotten more time to develop. it would have given so much publicity for the doubles tour. :)

Who are the "Spice Girls"??

carot
Aug 26th, 2003, 10:18 PM
Who are the "Spice Girls"??
Martina Hingis + Anna Kournikova, in stead of the Martinaē partnership that Volcana suggested.

bandabou
Aug 26th, 2003, 10:30 PM
then why did *you* bring her into this discussion?

on topic - i would prefer to see a Willies vs Spice Girls match up again, oh if only that rivalry would have gotten more time to develop. it would have given so much publicity for the doubles tour. :)

just because oneīs name is queenlindsay. The Williams 2x vs the spice girls would be a very good match-up indeed...too bad right now all four are on inactive duty! Some more than other...

TonyP
Aug 26th, 2003, 10:34 PM
Actually, that is true. All out with injuries, Martina permanently, Anna perhaps soon to be permanently, Venus and Serena, who knows?

Consequently, this year's US Open women's side isn't very interesting, which is probably why this debate is raging here.

They are the most colorful players the sport has produced on the men's or women's in the last decade and all of them appear to be going their own way, which may not be tennis' way.

bandabou
Aug 26th, 2003, 10:41 PM
Actually, that is true. All out with injuries, Martina permanently, Anna perhaps soon to be permanently, Venus and Serena, who knows?

Consequently, this year's US Open women's side isn't very interesting, which is probably why this debate is raging here.

They are the most colorful players the sport has produced on the men's or women's in the last decade and all of them appear to be going their own way, which may not be tennis' way.

Donīt worry about the sisters...they are like the terminator and Serena said it herself: " Iīll be back."

Anna never had much tennis going for her anyway, so only her looks will be missed and not even that!

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 26th, 2003, 11:17 PM
Donīt even start me with Lindsay. Lindsay was always on the losing end against the sisters....so she isnīt even worth discussing....

And who brought Lindsay in this discussion???? Are you listening to your self???? And also we are talking about doubles here mind u!!!!!

Anyway, this is my last reply to you IDIOT,MORON closed minded fan.

As for the original discussion, I would bet my money with Martina2x or martina with anna or even martina with Lindsay over anybody including williams2x in doubles, no matter what surface is. BUT I GUESS this can never be proven anymore.

bandabou
Aug 26th, 2003, 11:19 PM
And who brought Lindsay in this discussion???? Are you listening to your self???? And also we are talking about doubles here mind u!!!!!

Anyway, this is my last reply to you IDIOT,MORON closed minded fan.

As for the original discussion, I would bet my money with Martina2x or martina with anna or even martina with Lindsay over anybody including williams2x in doubles, no matter what surface is. BUT I GUESS this can never be proven anymore.

blah blah blah!!

TonyP
Aug 27th, 2003, 12:55 AM
bandalou:

You may not like Anna, but her success proves you are in a minority. For some reason, many Williams fans seem to be overly annoyed with Kournikova for reasons I don't quite get. I sometimes think there's so much hatred directed toward a girl who never did much of anything to anyone that the reasons can only be racial in nature. I think people who worry about prejudice sometimes should look in the mirror and see where their own anger is coming from.

*JR*
Aug 27th, 2003, 01:11 AM
Next thing you know, we'll be pairing off our "regular crowd" of Pam, Sue, BJK, Nathalie... :lol:

Nathalie_Tauziat
Aug 27th, 2003, 01:53 AM
Next thing you know, we'll be pairing off our "regular crowd" of Pam, Sue, BJK, Nathalie... :lol:
Regular crowd? :fiery: Monsieur Rogi I can assure you that I, Nathalie Tauziat, "work alone". BJK, Sue and Pam ( :spit: ) have nothing to do with le great Nathalie!

Monsters
Aug 27th, 2003, 01:54 AM
SV sisters will only dream of having the net skills
owned by Martina's......that is the truth:)

Philbo
Aug 27th, 2003, 07:22 AM
I think the Willis would have to be favourites to win...

I think Martina/Martina at their peaks would wipe the floor of the Williams quite easily in str8 sets, but in this current day, with Navrtilova's serve being what it is, the Willi's would romp home fairly easily...

But if you took Martina Nav from anywhere from the mid 80's unti the early 90's and put her with Hingis from 2 years ago - they'd be an amazing team...

Kart
Aug 27th, 2003, 08:32 AM
Williams sisters would win.

Martina N at 46 would be the weak link I'm afraid because the sisters would overpower them.

Take ten years off Martina N and I'd favour the two Martinas to win - Williams sisters are a good doubles team but Hingis and Navratilova are doubles legends.

bandabou
Aug 27th, 2003, 09:47 AM
I think the Willis would have to be favourites to win...

I think Martina/Martina at their peaks would wipe the floor of the Williams quite easily in str8 sets, but in this current day, with Navrtilova's serve being what it is, the Willi's would romp home fairly easily...

But if you took Martina Nav from anywhere from the mid 80's unti the early 90's and put her with Hingis from 2 years ago - they'd be an amazing team...

Wipe the floor?! I donīt care how good both Martinaīs are/ were....it wonīt be a floor whiping of the Williamses either. These girls are all about honor and prestige...when that is on the line, they are always ready for the rumble.

Jamie
Aug 27th, 2003, 07:12 PM
The records speak for it's self Both Martina's have a better record than the Williams. Especially in Doubles. Let the records TALK.

Knizzle
Aug 27th, 2003, 07:18 PM
The Williams sisters would win easily Martina N is too old, and both Martina's serves are too bad.