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View Full Version : Anna Kournikova is the best thing that has ever happened to tennis


croat123
Aug 23rd, 2003, 06:38 PM
and we need her back in action!

come back anna!!!

WhatTheDeuce
Aug 23rd, 2003, 06:41 PM
lol shes very good for the game, for sure...come back anna! I CANT WAIT!! :D:D:D:D:D:D

Mattographer
Aug 23rd, 2003, 06:42 PM
I don't need her, anyway... :rolleyes:

WhatTheDeuce
Aug 23rd, 2003, 06:43 PM
http://www.kournikova.com/photos/logged20/fcc03/pic2.jpg

WhatTheDeuce
Aug 23rd, 2003, 06:45 PM
http://www.kournikova.com/photos/slams/ozopen/pic12.jpg

croat123
Aug 23rd, 2003, 06:45 PM
and to think a guy on fox news today said she wasn't good looking :o

Paneru
Aug 23rd, 2003, 06:46 PM
Anna is great for the game!
She gets 10-100 year-old men drooling over her getting those who are and are not tennis fans by nature to fill the seats.

WhatTheDeuce
Aug 23rd, 2003, 06:46 PM
http://www.kournikova.com/photos/slams/ozopen/pic24.jpg

WhatTheDeuce
Aug 23rd, 2003, 06:47 PM
http://www.kournikova.com/photos/slams/ozopen/pic22.jpg

Havok
Aug 23rd, 2003, 06:49 PM
ARE YOU FINISHED POSTING PICS OF ANNA:haha: only kidding, post away. come on Anna come back

WhatTheDeuce
Aug 23rd, 2003, 06:50 PM
http://www.kournikova.com/photos/slams/ozopen/pic23.jpg

WhatTheDeuce
Aug 23rd, 2003, 06:51 PM
http://www.kournikova.com/photos/slams/ozopen/pic19.jpg

WhatTheDeuce
Aug 23rd, 2003, 06:52 PM
http://www.kournikova.com/photos/slams/ozopen/pic33.jpg

WhatTheDeuce
Aug 23rd, 2003, 06:52 PM
COME BACK ANNA :bounce:

Whatzup
Aug 23rd, 2003, 06:53 PM
Come Back Anna!! :hearts: :D

Martian Willow
Aug 23rd, 2003, 07:19 PM
Suzanne Lenglen was a better thing.

TatiAnnahølic
Aug 23rd, 2003, 07:53 PM
yes please come back! :hearts: but healthy please :p

Joana
Aug 23rd, 2003, 07:59 PM
And why is she so good for the game?
OK, if somebody comes to a match just to see her, and then gets interested in tennis, it's great.
But most of her "fans" are horny teenage boys, who couldn't tell Kim from Serena.

*JR*
Aug 23rd, 2003, 08:19 PM
And why is she so good for the game?
OK, if somebody comes to a match just to see her, and then gets interested in tennis, it's great.
But most of her "fans" are horny teenage boys, who couldn't tell Kim from Serena.
True, even if many are just wannabe horny teenage boys. Let's see if in 5 years when Anna is certainly off the tour (even if playing celebrity exhibitions) these folks have become tennis fans (or @ most have deified some new sex symbol with a racquet). And the "pairing" of her with Monica by 2 posters in particular is strange to say the least. (Marti CHOSE to enter that "Spice Girls" thing to compete as a crowd draw, as in their famous lockerroom "War of the Flowers"). All Monica did was win 8 of the 14 Slams she entered B4 the stabbing. So its almost like she's being used as a er, fig-leaf :eek: by these 2 as in "See, I am too a tennis fan".

VS Fan
Aug 23rd, 2003, 08:41 PM
Anna actually competed well when she played with Martina, and has several titles to her (their) credit..

In the begining she played singles more competetively... Wimbledon Semi, Miami FINAL. Venus on the way up spoiled her Miami match.

She was expected to continue, but it seems the glamor of poster girl has softened her tennis prowress. She is potentially a very good player if she could get a mental edge.

Tennis Fool
Aug 23rd, 2003, 08:43 PM
...Especially her new bra line :D

The Guilty
Aug 23rd, 2003, 08:46 PM
I can't wait to see you back Anna :hearts:

goldenlox
Aug 23rd, 2003, 08:59 PM
I think hanging around a major as a broadcaster is going to make Anna want to come back as a player.

WhatTheDeuce
Aug 23rd, 2003, 10:53 PM
I think hanging around a major as a broadcaster is going to make Anna want to come back as a player.
me too....vamos anna :bounce::hearts:

goldenlox
Aug 24th, 2003, 12:17 AM
On CBS tv in New York, Anna said the rumors that she was going to retire were just rumors.
But she still hasn't said when she's planning on playing tournaments again.

WhatTheDeuce
Aug 24th, 2003, 12:23 AM
On CBS tv in New York, Anna said the rumors that she was going to retire were just rumors.
But she still hasn't said when she's planning on playing tournaments again.
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

auntie janie
Aug 24th, 2003, 12:35 AM
Funny kind of rumor, though -- remember, it came from HER AGENT. :D

goldenlox
Aug 24th, 2003, 12:40 AM
Her agent said Anna wasn't going to play a consistent tour schedule.
I just looked it up at cnnsi.com.
The media ran with the retirement rumor.
But who knows, Anna may like broadcasting. But I doubt it.

auntie janie
Aug 24th, 2003, 12:49 AM
I believe the original L'Equipe article quoted the agent as saying Anna may have to retire or at least cut back her schedule. It all began there.

goldenlox
Aug 24th, 2003, 02:11 AM
If Anna's agent spoke English, and it was translated into French, and back into English, who knows if the true meaning of the agent came through the translations.
I don't see why he would talk retirement when Anna played World Team Tennis on three straight nights last month.

persond
Aug 24th, 2003, 05:16 AM
and to think a guy on fox news today said she wasn't good looking :o


Why do you find that odd...??? Not everyone has the same "standards of beauty...!!! :) :)

TatiAnnahølic
Aug 24th, 2003, 12:15 PM
Anna looking gorgeous at the USO :hearts:!!!

http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/xp/ap_photo/20030823/all/l899496.jpg
http://www.usopen.org/images/pics/large/b_aakd_034_kournikova.jpg

The Guilty
Aug 24th, 2003, 12:19 PM
You were faster than me :p

TatiAnnahølic
Aug 24th, 2003, 12:26 PM
Andre :p

More pics :hearts::

The Guilty
Aug 24th, 2003, 12:59 PM
Thanks! I still didn't watch those ;) :hug:

Anna looks so hot and happy :drool: :hearts: :dance:

Becool
Aug 24th, 2003, 03:04 PM
OMG Shes thin! Hope she doesn't become another Daniela "anorexic" Hantuchova :eek: :eek:

Harju.
Aug 24th, 2003, 03:11 PM
She has the perfect figure ever :drool: :drool:

Come back Anna.. WE WANT YOU :worship: (well, at least I want :o)

jojoseph
Aug 24th, 2003, 03:14 PM
Enough of tennis piggy-backing off of the attention she brings already, it would have been nice if she'd atleast won a title.

katrientje
Aug 24th, 2003, 03:17 PM
she doesn't look skinnier to me, she looks great. Good to see her again!

jojoseph
Aug 24th, 2003, 03:33 PM
OMG Shes thin! Hope she doesn't become another Daniela "anorexic" Hantuchova :eek: :eek:

You must be out of your mind.

*JR*
Aug 24th, 2003, 03:44 PM
Enough of tennis piggy-backing off of the attention she brings already, it would have been nice if she'd atleast won a title.
Jojo, you and Steam make the most reasonable statements of all the Anna diehards. It's a shame you two have whatever "baggage" from that other site.

mboyle
Aug 24th, 2003, 04:57 PM
dayum:hearts: ! Anna is lookin mighty fine.

apoet29
Aug 24th, 2003, 05:49 PM
I think the title of this thread should be "Anna Kournikova is the best thing to happen to MALE tennis fans."

LOL!

[S@nti]
Aug 24th, 2003, 07:46 PM
vamos!

[S@nti]
Aug 24th, 2003, 09:37 PM
OMG Anna you are :kiss: !!!

propi
Aug 24th, 2003, 09:41 PM
She's a great personality, tennis needs Anna as much as she needs it

[S@nti]
Aug 24th, 2003, 10:02 PM
She's a great personality,

and a great body too :eek: :p :devil: - (sorry Lucia) :p

goldenlox
Aug 24th, 2003, 11:29 PM
Anna did show a lot of personality in the umpire's chair yesterday.
Tracy Austin said on ESPN radio that Anna starts as entertainment reporter on Wednesday. Then the host said he will have to "roll tape" to see Anna.
I think USA Network will probably show some pre-taped Anna segments on Monday and Tuesday.

tennisjam
Aug 25th, 2003, 09:26 AM
She is hot, no way... :drool:

and Andy is damn "excited" on that picture... :eek:

After all, maybe he is not gay... ;)

tennisjam
Aug 25th, 2003, 09:28 AM
still, she really wasted her tennis talent :o

pitty...

Whatzup
Aug 25th, 2003, 10:44 AM
Wowww she looks sooo hot! :hearts: :D

goldenlox
Aug 25th, 2003, 12:57 PM
The one thing I notice about Anna is how happy she seems.
At Arthur Ashe Day, Anna was giggling non-stop.
Same for that CNBC interview after she opened the NYSE.
Anna loves all the attention she gets.

goldenlox
Aug 26th, 2003, 02:26 AM
I just saw Bud Collins on the Best Damn Talk Show Period.
He called Anna " the most extraordinary figure in the history of sports."
Quote, unquote.

SerialKiller#69
Aug 26th, 2003, 11:04 AM
Annnaaa!

*JR*
Aug 26th, 2003, 11:26 AM
I just saw Bud Collins on the Best Damn Talk Show Period.
He called Anna "the most extraordinary figure in the history of sports."
Quote, unquote.
OK, so what did he MEAN by that? Most spectacular career? (Uh, no). Most compelling story of triumph over adversity? (Uh, no). The only possible meaning would be something like "most famous outside of one's sport on a worldwide basis" or something to that effect. OK, let's accept this (though I'm not sure if its true). SO WHAT? There are no awards for "being famous for being famous" (just alot of money, alot of hounding by the media, and alot of threads on the bulletin boards of one's sport re. every blip in one's life). :rolleyes:

goldenlox
Aug 26th, 2003, 12:00 PM
I'm glad you made me revisit this. The show is Best Damn Sports Show Period.
The quote: "the most extraordinary figure in the history of any sport."
They just replayed it on Fox Sports Net.
Collins said something similar on the Yes Network yesterday.

On the E! True Hollywood Story, Collins said Ali was popular, but he was a champion. There is no one to compare Anna to.
Maybe that's true. Anna's situation seems unique in sports history.
And as I've posted several times, I think Anna is no better looking than many of the Russian players.
So I don't think it's solely about looks.

*JR*
Aug 26th, 2003, 01:11 PM
Thanks, Goldy, now I "get it". Bud presumably meant "famous worldwide WITHOUT the success of an Ali, a Babe Ruth, a Mia Hamm, etc., etc. Sorry to tell ya, but that's (generally) "damning with faint praise" like when some news-babe was called "the Anna Kournikova of journalism" a couple of years ago.

goldenlox
Aug 27th, 2003, 11:41 AM
How could being called " the most extraordinary figure in the history of any sport." be faint praise?
That includes Jackie Robinson, Jim Thorpe, Jesse Owens, Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Joe Louis, and Jim Brown.
It also includes all the other popular athletes like Arnold Palmer, Mickey Mantle, Ali, Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan and everyone else.
And I saw the interview twice. Bud Collins wasn't drunk or making a joke.

*JR*
Aug 27th, 2003, 11:47 AM
Goldy, I meant that Bud was referring to stuff other than achievement IN sport. Look, if I have to "deal with" the fact that there'll continue 2B threads about every time Anna sneezes, maybe you can with fate having dealt her a bad hand re. the injuries, etc.

Joana
Aug 27th, 2003, 11:53 AM
Not based solely on her looks? Then based on WHAT? Junior career? Results and GS in doubles? #8 in rankings? Julie Halard-Decugis had all that and more, and yet who outside the tennis world knows about her?

TatiAnnahølic
Aug 27th, 2003, 11:56 AM
What about her 21 singles semifinals(the big part tiers I-II) her wins over Graf, Seles, Hingis, Davenport... ?

The Guilty
Aug 27th, 2003, 12:54 PM
What about her 21 singles semifinals(the big part tiers I-II) her wins over Graf, Seles, Hingis, Davenport... ?

That doesn't matter for them, there are people that are blind and there's nothing we can do ;)

auntie janie
Aug 27th, 2003, 12:58 PM
Maybe it's her RECORD in those semifinals that makes that stat seem unimpressive: 4 wins, 17 losses. ;)

The Guilty
Aug 27th, 2003, 01:04 PM
Maybe it's her RECORD in those semifinals that makes that stat seem unimpressive: 4 wins, 17 losses. ;)

We can't always look for the negative point ;)

She lost to very good players in that semifinals and most of the times in very close matches that she just couldn't close :sad:

*JR*
Aug 27th, 2003, 01:12 PM
We can't always look for the negative point ;)

She lost to very good players in that semifinals and most of the times in very close matches that she just couldn't close :sad:
Fine. But remember, we're addressing either the thread's premise about Anna being the best thing ever to happen to tennis, or the little detour arising from a Bud Collins quote (really how Goldy saw what he meant by it). So without trivializing Anna having once been a very competitive player, the record supports neither premise.

goldenlox
Aug 27th, 2003, 01:37 PM
Obviously, Anna's impact on tennis is beyond being #8 in the world.
When Anna sat in the chair while Agassi played Roddick, that was a USTA event, wasn't it? Anna's Russian.
And Anna represents both the ATP and WTA tours as the player-who is-broadcaster for USA Network.

goldenlox
Aug 27th, 2003, 04:57 PM
This is from today's ESPN.COM Page 2:
" Anna, to me, is what today's feminism should really be about: a woman wielding confidence, beauty, femininity, athleticism and intelligence to cultivate a multi-million dollar empire, which in the end ultimately benefits women, women's sports, and gender equity."

apoet29
Aug 27th, 2003, 05:08 PM
GL,

I respect the fact that you are an Anna fan, but I think that the fact that she is your favorite skews your views a bit. Yes, Anna is a superstar. There is no denying that. But I seem to derive from your posts that you feel that tennis would cease to exist without Anna. I like Anna as well as anyone and do feel that her talent is underrated, but to think that tennis simply wouldn't exist without her is untrue. She brings a lot of attention to the game, but the sport is bigger than any one player (yes, I am including the Williams sisters in this statement) and while retirements and injury timeouts are sad, the sport and its new fresh faces move on.

I'm not asking you to not defend Anna or take her seriously, but I am asking you to consider the possibility that tennis does not begin nor end with Anna Kournikova.

apoet29
Aug 27th, 2003, 05:11 PM
Don't hate her because she's beautiful
By Stacey Pressman
Special to Page 2

I've stooped to a new low. I'm not afraid to admit it.

I just spent spent two days of my life stalking Anna Kournikova. Well, "stalking" might be too harsh. Let's just say I made sure to position myself in her presence. Luckily for me, Yom Kippur is right around the corner, because I'm sure God is waiting for my atonement.

Yeah, I know. Pathetic.

Did you know Anna is secretly attracted to guys who play video games?

But I had to. She was coming to NYC and I had to see what Anna-mania was all about. I needed to check her out in person. Watch her interact with others. Judge her for myself. See if she's worth all this hoopla.

And I'm here now to confirm the obvious.

She is.

Like you, I've read the press clippings, heard the private she's-a-monster "Annacdotes," watched the "E! True Hollywood Story" about what a snotty little over-hyped diva she is. I've heard the talk on the women's tour that Anna is a side show and a circus act and that she has never won a singles event. That in the end, endorsements should be "win" deep rather than "skin" deep for female athletes.

Puh-leeeeezz. I've always been somewhat sympathetic to "Anna-conda." These nay-sayers, mainly feminists and the politically correct, are clearly hostile to the fact that it's human nature to revel in beauty and aesthetics. Besides, it's not like we just gave Claudia Schiffer a tennis racquet. Anna has made more than $3 million in career prize money. She has been ranked as high as No. 8 in singles and has won 18 doubles titles, including two grand slams. Those are hardly signs of an athletic failure. But let's continue to beat Anna up. After all, she's pretty, and we all know that pretty girls need to suffer.

She was going to be in New York City at a video-game store on 33rd and Broadway, shooting promotional footage for XSN Sports, Xbox's new line of video games. So I checked it out.

(Want further proof of the video game cover curse that claimed Mike Vick a few weeks back? Kournikova and Pete Sampras -- one injured and the other retired -- grace the cover of Microsoft's new tennis game. Not to mention, as I was in the store waiting for Anna I got a buzz on my pager which sent me news that Chargers running back LaDanian Tomlinson had left practice with an injured heel. Of course, I immediately looked up and saw his mug on a huge poster promoting Sony 989's NFL Gameday 2004. Yikes!)

There I was in a video-game store worried about LT's injury and waiting for Kournikova to arrive. I was definitely having a Greg Brady, Hawaiian-tiki-idol moment.

The Microsoft people were frantically making sure that when Anna pushed a big red button, a curtain would drop and the game would be unveiled behind her. It was imperative that they get this to work, since that was really the point of her being there. Those boys were slaving away.

Ryan, the go-to-person responsible for making sure everything went smoothly, was pacing. He thought for sure she would be late and uncooperative. He even asked me to count the number of times she'd say "No" to his requests.

The expectation in the store? They were preparing to deal with a super-hot vapid celebrity twit.

Admit it: you've dreamed of this exact moment (OK, maybe minus the football helmet).

My purpose for being there? To observe a super-hot vapid celebrity twit.


Ryan's cell phone rang at 4:36 p.m. It was Anna's driver. Ms. Kournikova was four blocks away.

Wow. Four blocks away and 24 minutes early. How un-Diva-like!

The black GMC Denali pulled up in front of the store; and without much of a red-carpet fuss Ms. Kournikova entered in a tight, pink adidas half-shirt which revealed her amazingly flawless figure. Her signature long blond locks were down and flowing. A size-4 waist and a Brazilian bikini wax were the only conceivable solutions to the riddle about how she could wear her grey hot pants so low. And a can opener would be the only way to get them off.


There was no entourage -- just Anna and her agent.


Kournikova is stunning. There is no question about that. Maybe she was wearing a little too much makeup -- a girl that beautiful shouldn't need an ounce. But, then, she was making television appearances all day, and who knows how many makeup artists had dusted her cheeks. And I overheard a guy say she smelled like a stripper. (I had to ask him exactly what a stripper smells like. He reassured me he didn't mean it in a dirty, skanky way, but rather in a wearing-too-much-body-spray type of way.)

When she arrived, Anna immediately kissed most of the guys involved in the product launch. Two kisses each, European-style. She was by no means shy or standoff-ish. When she finished her meet-and-greet, she went to the curtain to unveil the video game. She was standing by the big red button -- the big moment. You could sense the if-this-doesn't-work-I'm screwed angst emanating from the set designer.


About to take her cue, Anna suddenly belted out, "How funny if this doesn't work? You sure it's gonna work?" She was joking, teasing the poor Microsoft underlings.


Not to worry. It worked.



Then came two on-camera sound bites. She was telling the camera, or trying to, how great XSN Sports is for Xbox. Between her accent and the fact that those words are a Cindy-Brady-stuttering mouthful, she screwed it up about 10 times.


Finally, after a little self-deprecation and a lot of sticking out her tongue in disgust with herself, she finally made it through.


Anna was holding a football video game, so I asked her if she likes football. Her face lit up.



"How was your first day of junior high?" "Not too bad, I stopped by the video store on the way home and saw Anna wearing pants that are illegal in 12 states."


"Oh, yeah, I do," she said.


I asked her what her favorite team is.


"Definitely the Kansas City Chiefs."


An oddball choice. "Why the Chiefs?"


"I met, like, 10 of them a few weeks ago, We did some exhibition thing and they were all really fun. I want them to do well."


This all made sense after realizing she plays World Team Tennis in Kansas City.


She looked at me with a silly, yet inquisitive, grin and said, "Oh, and wait. Who's that one guy?"


Hmmm. I thought to myself. Who's that one guy? Gee, this is a tough one. Deductive reasoning, logic, rocket science and Confucius say ...


"Uhh, Tony Gonzalez?"


I said it like a catty teenage girl standing in front of a high-school locker.


Anna furrowed her brow and shook her head as if the name wasn't registering, and then shrugged her shoulders.


Now, I certainly am not in any position to make overarching assessments of Anna Kournikova's character based on one hour. But my time with her belied her reputation and my preconceived notions.


She isn't always a diva. She was punctual, agreeable and arrived with no entourage.


She's engaging and friendly. She kissed everyone hello and goodbye.


She's self-deprecating and funny.


She's a sports fan. We knew about hockey. Now I know about football.


And she's human, just like the rest of us girls. I pulled the Kansas City Star clips about her appearance with the Chiefs. No. 88 is mentioned.


When she left, the people still in the store appeared to be as stunned as I was. I reminded Ryan exactly how many times Anna had said "No."


The Diva tally: Zero.


I expected the Wicked Witch of the West. I saw Glinda, the Good Witch of the North.


Maybe I just saw her on a good day. Maybe she was so nice because she didn't know she was talking to a writer. She had no idea who I was, nor did she know I was planning to write anything about her. But her friendly vibe made it easy to engage.



Oh, Anna, you're the funniest girl I know! I can't believe you want me to pinch your cheeks!


I also met her in an environment far removed from the pack journalism with which she regularly deals, and which no doubt can put anyone on the defensive.


Let me briefly take you to day No. 2 of my Anna-pa-looza Tour: Shock Absorber Bra Launch, Grand Central Station, New York City.


Anna made an appearance with Amazon.com CEO Jeff Bezos, who clumsily introduced the lovely Ms. Kournikova as if he was a rented birthday clown speaking to a group of 8-year-olds. This audience clearly was more interested in riding the ponies than his insipid balloon-making.


After his Bezos-the-Clown routine, Mr. Amazon flawlessly morphed into Kevin Spacey from "American Beauty," lusting after his daughter's best friend. I get embarrassed for people very easily. His antics were creeping me out.


My sole objective at this Grand Central media circus was simply to see if Anna recognized me 14 hours later. For me, that would have been a true sign of character.


But the experiment proved futile. The crowd was too large and overwhelming. Cameramen practically came to blows over lens space. People pushed and shoved each other just to catch a glimpse. Because of my lack of height, I do not fare well in these Times-Square-on-New-Years-Eve situations. I always end up like Jeff Van Gundy at the bottom of a bench-clearing melee.


I couldn't deal. Not to mention, I was wilting in the heat. I backed off and positioned myself away from the crowd, but close enough to hear the questions the media had for Anna.


It was here that I caught a glimpse of the she-might-be-a-monster reputation, or -- in the WTA colloquial -- her "Anna-tude."


But in fairness, how many times should she have to answer these questions?



Anna plans to master the tennis game she's buying -- maybe that way she can win a singles tournament.


"Hey, Anna, how does it feel to have all this media attention when you're not a proven winner?"


"Hey, Anna, do you think your babe-dom takes away from your tennis?"


Those are always the questions.

You see in her body language that these questions clearly agitate. She answers curtly, with a coquettish smile. Yes, it comes across as fake, snotty and stuck-up. And, hey, she very well could be all of those things.


But it's clear that Anna has a sexual persona and moxie that feeds her success and, in turn, vexes most feminists and the politically correct.


As a woman working in a male-dominated industry, I've come to realize it's in a man's nature to evaluate and sexualize a woman's persona before he gets to the more important matters of the day: intelligence, aptitude, athletic ability, sense of humor, what's for lunch, etc.


Rather than fight it, we women need to accept it and deal with it. Beauty is not a male-created invention designed to shackle, oppress and hold us back, as I heard over and over in my fancy-schmancy waste-of-time women's studies classes back in college.


Anna, to me, is what today's feminism should really be about: a woman wielding confidence, beauty, femininity, athleticism and intelligence to cultivate a multi-million dollar empire, which in the end ultimately benefits women, women's sports and gender equality.


I recognize I am whipping out the world's smallest violin for a multi-millionaire athlete. But it would behoove us as women to celebrate, promote and rejoice in Anna Kournikova's accomplishments, both on and off the court, rather than resort to petty sniping about her lack of a singles title.


Drop the Anna-mosity. She should be embraced.

*JR*
Aug 27th, 2003, 05:30 PM
This is from today's ESPN.COM Page 2:
"Anna, to me, is what today's feminism should really be about: a woman wielding confidence, beauty, femininity, athleticism and intelligence to cultivate a multi-million dollar empire, which in the end ultimately benefits women, women's sports, and gender equity."
Serena does all of the above, plus one other little thing: she usually wins. ;) And others could have more of that power, Goldy, BUT: in this (shhh, little secret!) male-dominated socio-economic structure, it is pretty hard for even a female athlete like Mia Hamm or Marion Jones to. So the author quoted has a rather strange definition of feminism IMO: whatever men want. :confused:

indiadj
Aug 27th, 2003, 05:49 PM
this article isn't about Serena. It's about Anna!

goldenlox
Aug 27th, 2003, 06:36 PM
The quote is not only about Anna, it's from a woman writer who expected to hate Anna. Before she met her. The quote is how she feels about Anna after getting to know her.
And Anna didn't know she was a writer.

But the Bud Collins quote is even better.

*JR*
Aug 27th, 2003, 07:06 PM
Goldy, I used to "hate on" Anna, B4 I realized that what I really hated was "Anna, Inc.", which is basically that "industry" selesrules talks about. Which pays Anna boku $$$$$ but drives her to distraction (so even when healthy, she's drained on the court far too often). So this isn't an "anti-Anna" post, esp. as she earned my admiration by passing up WC's to enter some Challengers this spring. You (and selesrules) can get 10 million people to endorse this theory of Anna as Liberator and it's flat out invalid. Sorry.

goldenlox
Aug 27th, 2003, 07:20 PM
You "used" to hate on Anna? Are you kidding?
You're hatred is very transparent.

apoet29
Aug 27th, 2003, 07:21 PM
The quote is not only about Anna, it's from a woman writer who expected to hate Anna. Before she met her. The quote is how she feels about Anna after getting to know her.
And Anna didn't know she was a writer.

But the Bud Collins quote is even better.

I think you've misinterpreted the Bud Collins quote. What he meant by extraordinary is that sport has never seen the phenomenon of an athlete so celebrated for her looks and personality rather than her game. Collins was not attempting to put Anna in the category of legends like Jackie Robinson, Billie Jean King or Michael Jordan. What he was trying to say was that Anna achieved superstardom for other reasons. IMO, it would be unfair to those athletes to be compared to Anna. She is a talented player, but she has not impacted her sport the same way these athletes did.

Pressman's quote had its good and bad points. It was good that it should Anna's success should not be taken for granted. Anna worked for it and earned it like everyone else. However, I feel that Pressman also believes that the only way a female athlete can get attention is through selling sex because doing so appeals to the patriarchal system that defines advertising. I get pissed off by women who claim that the objectification of female bodies is somehow empowering to them. I would rather see Anna with tournament titles and less press and sponsors than Anna Inc, which I believe has ruined her tennis career.

goldenlox
Aug 27th, 2003, 09:11 PM
This has been a fun thread today. But this is a serious post.
Anna talking about her health on CBS yesterday:
" I don't want to go on the court and just think I'll be fine for one week or two weeks, but then knowing that if I'm going to play two, three tournaments in a row; I know it's going to get tough.
... I want to resolve that problem. ... I don't want to think about pulling out at the next tournament. It's going to take some time. But I really want to come back when I'm healthy and can give 100%."

*JR*
Aug 27th, 2003, 09:12 PM
I think you've misinterpreted the Bud Collins quote. What he meant by extraordinary is that sport has never seen the phenomenon of an athlete so celebrated for her looks and personality rather than her game. Collins was not attempting to put Anna in the category of legends like Jackie Robinson, Billie Jean King or Michael Jordan. What he was trying to say was that Anna achieved superstardom for other reasons. IMO, it would be unfair to those athletes to be compared to Anna. She is a talented player, but she has not impacted her sport the same way these athletes did.

Pressman's quote had its good and bad points. It was good that it should Anna's success should not be taken for granted. Anna worked for it and earned it like everyone else. However, I feel that Pressman also believes that the only way a female athlete can get attention is through selling sex because doing so appeals to the patriarchal system that defines advertising. I get pissed off by women who claim that the objectification of female bodies is somehow empowering to them. I would rather see Anna with tournament titles and less press and sponsors than Anna Inc, which I believe has ruined her tennis career. Goldy, ask some of the Anna diehards like Steam, JoJoseph, MonicAnna, etc. if they think this post (which is exactly what I meant, just better stated) :worship: is in ANY way hateful towards Anna. (They might agree or disagree, but certainly wouldn't call it hateful, I'm pretty sure).

TatiAnnahølic
Aug 28th, 2003, 11:41 AM
Anna at the Nasdaq (on August 22)

http://pro.corbis.com/images/watermark/67/14491958/UT0157842.jpg
http://pro.corbis.com/images/watermark/67/14491956/UT0157840.jpg

TatiAnnahølic
Aug 28th, 2003, 12:02 PM
and more pics at the kids day:

http://www.wtatour.com/assets/story_image/AnnaKumpire082403.jpg
http://www.wtatour.com/assets/story_image/KidsDayGroup082403.jpg

goldenlox
Aug 28th, 2003, 01:38 PM
Bud Collins is a professional writer. And broadcaster. He knows how to choose the words he wants to use.
And I know exactly what he means.
And Collins lived through the Jackie Robinson era.
And the Jim Thorpe era.

apoet29
Aug 28th, 2003, 02:18 PM
Bud Collins is a professional writer. And broadcaster. He knows how to choose the words he wants to use.
And I know exactly what he means.
And Collins lived through the Jackie Robinson era.
And the Jim Thorpe era.

Honey, I really think that you either don't understand figurative meanings or you are so caught up in your way of thinking that you don't see anything else.

Anna is a talented and beautiful young woman. But she should never be compared to Robinson, Thorpe, or any of the athletes you mentioned in your post. These athletes broke down barriers in their sport. Anna's fame is more self-serving than helping her sport.

That's what Collins meant by extraordinary.

*JR*
Aug 28th, 2003, 03:00 PM
I think Goldy is really selesrules posting in disguise during his ban! :lol:

goldenlox
Aug 28th, 2003, 03:09 PM
I didn't start this thread. What's said and written about Anna stands on it's own. This is from today's New York Daily News:
" .. most of the White Sox looked a little star-struck when they surrounded Anna Kournikova on the field before last night's game, shaking hands and asking the tennis vixen to sign baseballs."

And also in the Daily News, Bogomolov was walking and healthy. And with Anna at the USTA Smashzone. But when Anna was recognized, she became the center of attention. So she left.

apoet29
Aug 28th, 2003, 03:23 PM
I didn't start this thread. What's said and written about Anna stands on it's own. This is from today's New York Daily News:
" .. most of the White Sox looked a little star-struck when they surrounded Anna Kournikova on the field before last night's game, shaking hands and asking the tennis vixen to sign baseballs."

And also in the Daily News, Bogomolov was walking and healthy. And with Anna at the USTA Smashzone. But when Anna was recognized, she became the center of attention. So she left.

Honey, I think that you are so infatuated with Anna that you can't see beyond your own feelings. That's cool. But don't try and sell to the rest of us that she is something that she isn't.

*JR*
Aug 28th, 2003, 03:27 PM
How does any of that make her "the best thing that ever happened to tennis"? In your OWN words, Goldy, NOT those of selectively chosen media pieces. After all, I don't need to quote the article by Selena Roberts in the NY Times to give an opposing viewpoint, so stop using crutches!

goldenlox
Aug 28th, 2003, 03:38 PM
I don't care what the thread title is.
I'm interested that a Russian athlete can become such a huge celebrity.
Now she's rehabbing. There are no results to talk about.
Her popularity is something I enjoy reading about.
Since there were posts that Anna was finished. That sponsors and fans were moving on, I enjoy seeing that this might not be the case.
But I want Anna to play next year and join the other Russians as factors on the court.
Like I said, Anna's rehabbing now.

*JR*
Aug 28th, 2003, 03:51 PM
Please don't give me that "a Russian athlete" CRAP, as she's basically a Floridian without even a Russian accent left. You want Russian athletes just in the WTA, you have a wide variety with alot more potential for big results than Anna (even if she was snake-bitten by injuries, a part of ANY sport). So Goldy (and other Annaholics), DO NOT play the "nationalism card" here, it doesn't work! The W/S ARE the 2 best black players, Juju and Kimmie the best Belgians, etc. Even were Anna not "Russian in parentage and passport only", she's FAR from the country's best hope in the WTA, and you damn well know it. (Don't believe me, go ask Eggy, Dava, etc., etc.)! :rolleyes:

goldenlox
Aug 28th, 2003, 03:54 PM
Okay, she lives in Florida. I still want Anna to come back and play well.
And if you hear Anna talk, Elena D. sounds much more like an American.
And Elena always lives in Moscow.

apoet29
Aug 28th, 2003, 03:59 PM
I don't care what the thread title is.
I'm interested that a Russian athlete can become such a huge celebrity.
Now she's rehabbing. There are no results to talk about.
Her popularity is something I enjoy reading about.
Since there were posts that Anna was finished. That sponsors and fans were moving on, I enjoy seeing that this might not be the case.
But I want Anna to play next year and join the other Russians as factors on the court.
Like I said, Anna's rehabbing now.

Then you basically answered your own question. Her celebrity is all you really care about, not her tennis.

Daniel
Aug 28th, 2003, 04:01 PM
Anna :D :D

goldenlox
Aug 28th, 2003, 04:10 PM
apoet, I'm actually taking a course in poetry this fall.
And yes, if Vera Z. and Maria go on to win slams. And Anna can't get in the top 30, I will continue to root for Anna. Same for Lena, and Lina, and Vera D., and Sveta, and many more.

apoet29
Aug 28th, 2003, 04:12 PM
apoet, I'm actually taking a course in poetry this fall.
And yes, if Vera Z. and Maria go on to win slams. And Anna can't get in the top 30, I will continue to root for Anna. Same for Lena, and Lina, and Vera D., and Sveta, and many more.

I hope that you have a good teacher and I wish you the best of luck in that course. If you ever want to exchange PM's about poetry, just send me one.

I'm curious. Say Anna stops playing tennis. Will you still root for her?

goldenlox
Aug 28th, 2003, 04:18 PM
I want ALL the players to go on to live healthy, happy lives after tennis.
And if some of them are in the public eye, I'll read about them.
But there will be a new generation of players to root for.
Like Vika, who just turned 15.

*JR*
Aug 28th, 2003, 04:28 PM
Cut & pasted from Goldy's own sig: "Performance is everything. Potential is nothing. You are what your record says you are." - Bill Parcells BTW, you shot yourself in the foot (again) by saying that "Elena D. sounds much more like an American. And Elena always lives in Moscow". (emphasis added). Duh, that would make her a little "more Russian" in practice? And I also wish Anna a speedy return to the courts, so she can be fucking judged as a tennis player, not the pop icon you simply worship! :rolleyes: (In fact, MONTHS ago I posted that seeing her win some WTA title would be good JUST 2C HOW SHE PLAYS "WITH THE MONKEY OFF HER BACK"). Look it up!

goldenlox
Aug 28th, 2003, 04:34 PM
My point was that Anna is Russian. And you can hear it whenever she talks.
I think Anna has had a good career. I don't know if she'll ever win a singles title.
It's still a good career.

goldenlox
Aug 28th, 2003, 08:00 PM
Jolly Roger, I take it back. I was harsh.
But it's hard to be objective on this topic. And GM can get me wound up sometimes.

*JR*
Aug 28th, 2003, 09:22 PM
Jolly Roger, I take it back. I was harsh.
But it's hard to be objective on this topic. And GM can get me wound up sometimes.
Goldy, I don't take stuff personally here, esp. in GM! ;) But may I ask why "it's hard to be objective on this topic"? (Indeed, don't we all OWE Anna the respect of judging her role in her chosen sport objectively)?

goldenlox
Aug 28th, 2003, 09:35 PM
I just like to see my favs are having some fun in life.
Whether they're playing well at the moment or not.
But yeah, this is not a warzone, just different opinions.

jacobruiz
Jul 16th, 2004, 12:36 AM
I guess you're having a good old time pulling up these old threads but I must say I just watched Anna on WTT on Foxsports and she looks FABULOUS! Her face = perfect, her skin = like velvet. She does not look prematurely aged or overly bronzed like some people suggested today. And she is in fantastic shape, in fact I've never seen her look better.

WTT looks like a lot of fun for the players and the audience and Anna was clearly having a good time and hitting some good shots. But as far as coming back to the tour - I just don't think it will happen.:sad:

goldenlox
Jul 16th, 2004, 12:38 AM
This weekend Fox Sports is doing a one hour biography on Anna. That's after ESPN, E!, and VH-1.
Maria's got zero biographies on tv.

CJK
Jul 16th, 2004, 12:51 AM
I guess you're having a good old time pulling up these old threads but I must say I just watched Anna on WTT on Foxsports and she looks FABULOUS! Her face = perfect, her skin = like velvet. She does not look prematurely aged or overly bronzed like some people suggested today. And she is in fantastic shape, in fact I've never seen her look better.

WTT looks like a lot of fun for the players and the audience and Anna was clearly having a good time and hitting some good shots. But as far as coming back to the tour - I just don't think it will happen.:sad:
I want to say that I have no intention of bashing anyone at all.
I just want to reflect how tennis scene can suddenly change over a year.
Since we'll probably never see Anna on tv playing tennis, why not treasure it while we still can.

Fingon
Jul 16th, 2004, 12:51 AM
This weekend Fox Sports is doing a one hour biography on Anna. That's after ESPN, E!, and VH-1.
Maria's got zero biographies on tv.
first of all, Maria is 17, her career has just started, Anna has been around for how long? 8 years?

Second, there is an amazingly increased flow of news about Anna now that Maria got all the attention, interesting isn't it?

for months we don't hear anything except her tour with Enrique, now suddenly, she is playing wtt, she has a biography, she appears in Maxim, etc., etc.

If looks to me like a desperate attempt to keep the attention

Last by not least, you are bringing this stuff and looks like you imply that Anna is wonderful and Maria is nothing, because Anna is in Maxim, because Anna has more money, because Anna is better known.

I personally think Maria is 100 times prettier than Anna, but that's a personal preference, but what matters is, Maria is getting the attention not only because of her looks but because at 17 has achived way more than Anna in her entire career. She made the news by winning Wimbledon, not by being with her famous boyfriend watching wtt or appearing in a men's magazine. At the end of the day, even if Anna is better looking than Maria, that's not her merit. Maria's beauty is only one ingredient of her success, Anna's beauty is her success, rather sad IMO.

goldenlox
Jul 16th, 2004, 12:55 AM
I didn't bump this thread. A Maria fan did. There's still no comparison between them. Anna is a mainstream celebrity. Maria is not, except in England.

apoet29
Jul 16th, 2004, 01:02 AM
Mainstream celebrity fades fast. Maria has something that Anna would give up her Maxim covers and tv biographies for and that is a Wimbledon title.

goldenlox
Jul 16th, 2004, 01:07 AM
There are about 200 new photos of Anna at **************. And she looks happy in all of them.
We all don't get whatever we want in life. But you accept it, and enjoy your life.
There's nothing for Anna to be sad about. And she's not sad.

CJK
Jul 16th, 2004, 01:09 AM
There is nothing sad, it's more of a regret, had she won that match against Venus in the Key Biscayne final, everything would have been different, same goes for Martina's loss to Iva in RG. They are happy, they just have a few regrets.

ys
Jul 16th, 2004, 01:10 AM
Last by not least, you are bringing this stuff and looks like you imply that Anna is wonderful and Maria is nothing, because Anna is in Maxim, because Anna has more money, because Anna is better known.

Geez, Fignon, just four weeks ago you were crying that without Justine you have no one to support at Wimbledon, even starting a thread asking for advice whom to support. And now - voila - you are a Masha fan.. :lol:

Fingon
Jul 16th, 2004, 01:10 AM
I didn't bump this thread. A Maria fan did. There's still no comparison between them. Anna is a mainstream celebrity. Maria is not, except in England.
I wasn't addressing the thread bumping, but your comment.

As I said, Anna's celebrity status comes only from her looks (overhyped IMO). Yes, she is a celebrity, so what? I think Maria has a lot more to be proud of, and we should probably talk in a couple of years to see who the celebrity is.

I really don't get how it matters whether who is more famous, who is in more magazine covers or who earns more money, sure, Anna is rich and famous and maybe happy with her life, she is wanted, she is admired by her beauty, but other than that she doesn't get any respect, Maria is respected and admired, and by her own merits, not by something that just came with the package, same as Serena, Venus, Kim, Justine, Amelie, Lindsay, Monica and so many others.

when people talk about Monica, Steffi, Serena, and very likely Maria, they talk /will talk with respect, admiration, with Anna, they drool, and that's it. Maria will be remembered for many years, when Anna's beauty fades off, she will be forgotten.

Finally, it's not really the issue, but Anna can appear in all the magazines of the world, and all the tv shows in the world, I still consider Maria a lot prettier, and not only her: Jelena, Babsi, Elena, Lina, Gagliardi, Nejedly are way better looking, only they weren't promoted as well.

ys
Jul 16th, 2004, 01:12 AM
Mainstream celebrity fades fast. Maria has something that Anna would give up her Maxim covers and tv biographies for and that is a Wimbledon title.
Do you always have to sound that righteous?

Anna Kournikova IS the best thing that ever happened to tennis. Period.

goldenlox
Jul 16th, 2004, 01:13 AM
I don't care who's better looking. And Anna had a very strong tennis career.
But her celebrity is unique, in all of sports.

CJK
Jul 16th, 2004, 01:14 AM
Do you always have to sound that righteous?

Anna Kournikova IS the best thing that ever happened to tennis. Period.
That is correct, and Maria WILL BE later.

Martian Willow
Jul 16th, 2004, 01:17 AM
I don't care who's better looking. And Anna had a very strong tennis career.
But her celebrity is unique, in all of sports.

...yes, it's unique in that it has nothing to do with sport... :)

ys
Jul 16th, 2004, 01:17 AM
That is correct, and Maria WILL BE later.
No. Maria will never make it to , say, CNNSI Swimsuit Edition on the level of eclipsing professional models. You won't see her on every street of Paris advertising Omega watches. She is simply not a megastar enough for that.

Kournikova is the only tennis player of this era, probably ever who completely transcends the sport. Others are nowhere close.

decemberlove
Jul 16th, 2004, 01:18 AM
first of all, Maria is 17, her career has just started, Anna has been around for how long? 8 years?

Second, there is an amazingly increased flow of news about Anna now that Maria got all the attention, interesting isn't it?

for months we don't hear anything except her tour with Enrique, now suddenly, she is playing wtt, she has a biography, she appears in Maxim, etc., etc.

If looks to me like a desperate attempt to keep the attention

ever since 2001, anna has been in either fhm or mamix this time of year... its for her calendar. nothing new. and she announced she was playing wtt a while ago. the bios are sporadic. but i remember there being one around this time either last year or the year before... all to promote maxim and her calendar.

bad examples.

maria will only get the attention if she remains on top. she won't be a concrete celebrity like anna cos she is marketed as having a very bland personality. she is strictly business. the media likes its gossip. also, she doesnt have the looks to appeal to most of america if she doesnt keep up her game. i am not implying this is a bad thing, either. its nice to see her so focused after all the other girls labelled the next kournikova fell apart...

ys
Jul 16th, 2004, 01:20 AM
...yes, it's unique in that it has nothing to do with sport... :)
or it has. It would not have happened if it was not because of the sport. And it is not Anna who should be embarassed of not playing any more. It is the sport, tennis, that should consider it an honour to be still associated with Anna Kournikova.

Martian Willow
Jul 16th, 2004, 01:22 AM
...no serious tennis player would prefer what Anna has to what Maria has... :)

CJK
Jul 16th, 2004, 01:22 AM
No. Maria will never make it to , say, CNNSI Swimsuit Edition on the level of eclipsing professional models. You won't see her on every street of Paris advertising Omega watches. She is simply not a megastar enough for that.

Kournikova is the only tennis player of this era, probably ever who completely transcends the sport. Others are nowhere close.
Anna only became a "megastar" when she was approaching her 20's. You do have some ideas how many interviews Maria is getting right? Even she was the topic of so many sports talk shows. Not to mention Regis and Kelly etc. etc.....So many of my friends say Maria is just so beautiful. I do think she is going to surpass Anna in 2 or 3 years time.

Lucy
Jul 16th, 2004, 01:23 AM
:haha::haha::bs:

ys
Jul 16th, 2004, 01:24 AM
...no serious tennis player would prefer what Anna has to what Maria has... :)
No woman would prefer what Maria has to what Anna has.

decemberlove
Jul 16th, 2004, 01:25 AM
I wasn't addressing the thread bumping, but your comment.

As I said, Anna's celebrity status comes only from her looks (overhyped IMO). Yes, she is a celebrity, so what? I think Maria has a lot more to be proud of, and we should probably talk in a couple of years to see who the celebrity is.

I really don't get how it matters whether who is more famous, who is in more magazine covers or who earns more money, sure, Anna is rich and famous and maybe happy with her life, she is wanted, she is admired by her beauty, but other than that she doesn't get any respect, Maria is respected and admired, and by her own merits, not by something that just came with the package, same as Serena, Venus, Kim, Justine, Amelie, Lindsay, Monica and so many others.
and why does it matter who garners more respect? i guess someone forgot to tell me you suddenly speak for the whole world. what matters is THEIR personal goals and happiness. not what losers on a message board think of them.

when people talk about Monica, Steffi, Serena, and very likely Maria, they talk /will talk with respect, admiration, with Anna, they drool, and that's it. Maria will be remembered for many years, when Anna's beauty fades off, she will be forgotten.
:lol: at you even mentioning marias name in the same sentence as monica, steffi, and serena. she has won one GS... that is not worthy of being remembered for years and years. great expectations, eh?

Martian Willow
Jul 16th, 2004, 01:25 AM
No woman would prefer what Maria has to what Anna has.

...OK...thanks for telling me... :scratch:

Fingon
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:18 AM
and why does it matter who garners more respect? i guess someone forgot to tell me you suddenly speak for the whole world. what matters is THEIR personal goals and happiness. not what losers on a message board think of them.

actually, all that matters is their tennis performance, but since you since to bring the subject. You don't know their personal goals and happiness, and I couldn't care less, if Anna is happy with being considered a bimbo, it's up to her, I don't really care. Now, you might be a loser, I am not, speak for yourself.

And why are you here at all if it's so unimportant? apparently we can't discuss anything because all tennis players are like divine entities that can't be touched :rolleyes:

finally, I am not talking for the whole, world, just for myself, you make too many assumptions. I said what I think, I give a rat ass for the rest of the world.
when people talk about Monica, Steffi, Serena, and very likely Maria, they talk /will talk with respect, admiration, with Anna, they drool, and that's it. Maria will be remembered for many years, when Anna's beauty fades off, she will be forgotten.
[QUOTE]

:lol: at you even mentioning marias name in the same sentence as monica, steffi, and serena. she has won one GS... that is not worthy of being remembered for years and years. great expectations, eh?
well, then what's left for Anna who has won 0 titles, not even a tier 5

goldenlox
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:19 AM
People don't talk about Monica and Steffi. When are they on magazine covers? Or talked about?
Hingis is never talked about. And all of them won multiple majors.

nate_my_love
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:21 AM
She looks really old now...:O(

Fingon
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:23 AM
People don't talk about Monica and Steffi. When are they on magazine covers? Or talked about?
Hingis is never talked about. And all of them won multiple majors.
and why is so importan to be on a magazine cover? does it make Anna better? :confused:

CJK
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:25 AM
and why is so importan to be on a magazine cover? does it make Anna better? :confused:
more popular since the editors think their appearace will attract more readers.

goldenlox
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:27 AM
I'm saying, all these great champions, are of no interest to the public. They retired from a minor sport, and no one cares about them.
They don't have hundreds of new pictures at **************. If they go somewhere, the average football fan doesn't care.

Fingon
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:30 AM
Geez, Fignon, just four weeks ago you were crying that without Justine you have no one to support at Wimbledon, even starting a thread asking for advice whom to support. And now - voila - you are a Masha fan.. :lol:
geez ys, you are not stupid but you pretend it very well.

that thread was meant to get comments from people, I was tired of the same bullshit and wanted people to talk about players game, or did you really think they were going to convince me?

I don't know if you notice but I run a site on Maria that didn't start after Wimbledon.

There are many people I like besides Justine and Maria: Babsi, Patty, Tatiana Golovin, Lina, Tina Pisnik, Mauresmo, just to name a few.

And this has very little to do with Masha (who you predicted wasn't going to go far, you said Zvonareva was the big thing, anyway) but I find it very pitty that some fans felt threatened because someone threatens Anna's popularity. I happened to like Anna before but her attitude put me totally off her.

Fingon
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:31 AM
I'm saying, all these great champions, are of no interest to the public. They retired from a minor sport, and no one cares about them.
They don't have hundreds of new pictures at **************. If they go somewhere, the average football fan doesn't care.
I understand that, I just don't see the relevance.

goldenlox
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:33 AM
The relevance is that goofy Maria fans think she's a bigger celebrity than she is, and this idiot, CJK, is using Anna as his barometer.

Fingon
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:34 AM
Do you always have to sound that righteous?

Anna Kournikova IS the best thing that ever happened to tennis. Period.
yes, she made women's tennis the laughing stock.

CJK
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:36 AM
The relevance is that goofy Maria fans think she's a bigger celebrity than she is, and this idiot, CJK, is using Anna as his barometer.
OMG...I'm not going to pretend I didnt hear that :mad:.
You have no idea how excited I am to hear that she is going to return, I'm not going to sit her listening to you saying that Anna is a history shit. She is going to be back and stun you guys, and she has the talent to do so, just wait.

goldenlox
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:37 AM
Fingon, are you happy you're aligned with this idiot?

Fingon
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:39 AM
The relevance is that goofy Maria fans think she's a bigger celebrity than she is, and this idiot, CJK, is using Anna as his barometer.
honestly, I consider the comparisson, from both sides stupid. I don't see how it matters to anyone (Maria or Anna fans) how popular they are, it's like they support them to go with the majority :confused: or need thousands of people to support their preferences.

Of course Anna is more popular now, I think that will change, but it can take a couple of years, but that's just an opinion, I don't really care and I don't see why anybody except Maria, Anna and their agents and sponsors could care.

For me the fact remains, Maria is a better tennis player, and incidentally, IMO better looking and I really give a damn for how many magazines covers Anna or Maria are in, I am certainly not buying the Anna's ones (but we need the Maria's ones for the website :fiery: )

CJK
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:40 AM
Fingon, are you happy you're aligned with this idiot?
I'm not aligning with anyone, you are just rude :mad: . And yet you are a Russian:rolleyes: shouldnt you be giving good comments to both of them :rolleyes:

Fingon
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:41 AM
Fingon, are you happy you're aligned with this idiot?
am I? :confused:

goldenlox
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:48 AM
I don't know. You jump into these discussions, and turn them into arguments.
I want both Anna and Maria to be happy, healthy, and wealthy. To me, it's not a contest.
I can't read their minds. But winning a major doesn't mean you have no problems in life.

CJK
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:50 AM
No one is arguing with anyone. Until some start calling names:rolleyes:.
Fine, since nobody is trying to fight with anyone, let's just agree Maria and Anna are beautiful and popular and famous. And they are both stars.

goldenlox
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:54 AM
Fine. You don't have to bump year old threads, and then delete your post.

CJK
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:58 AM
That was an accident, I didnt deny bumping it, but I already explained later. Anyways, there is no need to start fight again, let's just live in peace.

oddkayla
Jul 16th, 2004, 07:59 AM
I never forget one time a friend was having a get-together, and there was tennis playing on tv. I did not want to go to my friend's house, because I wanted to watch a match. I went anyway, and as soon as the match started, When Anna and Martina H, walked on the court, they thought Martina was Anna. They had all heard of Anna but did not know who she was. They also knew that Martina was always winning, so when they heard that Anna was great for tennis, the assumed she won, keeping everyone interested. Their jaws dropped when I corrected them. They asked what Anna had done and who she is, why was she hyped. I mentioned that people thought she was beautiful. Apart from the fact that they differed with that opinion, they were surprised that a sport could judge peolple on how they look.

Must add that I've never thought Anna was the most beautiful. Hingis, Jelena Dokic, Schett and the other Eastern European players look better to my eyes.

I'm not sure she has been that great for tennis. I tend to thing she degrades the sport. Also, she never consistently went deep at tournaments to be a factor at majors. That the US Open 2002, had very good ratings and record-breaking attendance has nothing to do with Anna. People went to see great tennis. I think in terms of a draw and popularity Hingis, Venus, Serena, Capriati after her revival, and even the underated Davenport have been better for the sport!

mandy7
Jul 16th, 2004, 08:09 AM
i love anna
and i hope she comes back soon
and if she comes back, she's gonna win a title!!! :D

VeraNuVirgosFan
Jul 16th, 2004, 09:12 AM
No woman would prefer what Maria has to what Anna has.
And you think you are the right person to speak for every woman in the world?

Crazy_Fool
Jul 16th, 2004, 09:52 AM
Is Anna K the best thing that has ever happened to tennis?

Answer: No. Anna K is in the wrong field, this is tennis we are talking about, not hollywood. Yes Anna K is good looking, so are others, but they don't get attention like her.

She hasn't won a single title, let alone a slam, yet she is as hyped up as Hingis, Serena, Justine and anyone else. Just shows the shallow world we live in.

*JR*
Jul 16th, 2004, 12:45 PM
honestly, I consider the comparisson, from both sides stupid. I don't see how it matters to anyone (Maria or Anna fans) how popular they are, it's like they support them to go with the majority :confused: or need thousands of people to support their preferences.

Of course Anna is more popular now, I think that will change, but it can take a couple of years, but that's just an opinion, I don't really care and I don't see why anybody except Maria, Anna and their agents and sponsors could care.

For me the fact remains, Maria is a better tennis player, and incidentally, IMO better looking and I really give a damn for how many magazines covers Anna or Maria are in, I am certainly not buying the Anna's ones (but we need the Maria's ones for the website :fiery: )
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Experimentee
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:17 PM
Anna is the joke of the sporting world. People are more interested in reading about her making celebrity appearances and her relationship with Enrique than about her tennis, so i doubt shes bringing popularity to tennis now.

goldenlox
Jul 16th, 2004, 02:24 PM
I got news for you. Nobody cares about the great champions of the sport.
If anyone cares about Maria, it's because they're in love with her looks, not her tennis.

*JR*
Jul 16th, 2004, 03:02 PM
I got news for you. Nobody cares about the great champions of the sport.
If anyone cares about Maria, it's because they're in love with her looks, not her tennis. Fucking bullshit! While not ugly, Monica doesn't Look Like a model, and many of us :worship: worship her. (Sorry JHH, you don't either). :sad: Goldy,stop twisting everything To Try To justify.... Annarexia! :p

goldenlox
Jul 16th, 2004, 03:12 PM
Nobody cares, and you know it. Monica is not news. Stop being a dope.

the cat
Jul 16th, 2004, 03:16 PM
Miss Love, you said it all in one sentence. You said "Maria will only get the attention if she remains on top". Well Holly that's the way it should be.

Well said as usual apoet. And Fingon makes numerous pertinent points, too.

I just don't see the relevance of knocking Maria to praise Anna. Or vice versa. Masha will never be as famous worldwide as Anna is. And that's good news because Masha needs to concentrate on her tennis so she can become a great tennis player. :) Sharapova will do alot of photo shoots and television commercials worldwide but she will be known for being a great record setting tennis player and not a glamour girl and that's fine by me! :D

*JR*
Jul 16th, 2004, 03:33 PM
Nobody cares, and you know it. Monica is not news. Stop being a dope. And Zhoo-steeen?

ys
Jul 16th, 2004, 03:39 PM
Masha will never be as famous worldwide as Anna is.
Finally some feline wisdom here.. :)

apoet29
Jul 16th, 2004, 03:41 PM
No woman would prefer what Maria has to what Anna has.
:lol: :lol: :lol: What to be objectified as a sex symbol and then have those same people laugh at your record? No thanks.

apoet29
Jul 16th, 2004, 03:45 PM
Do you always have to sound that righteous?

Anna Kournikova IS the best thing that ever happened to tennis. Period.
Gee, did I upset you? :rolleyes: Look I like Anna, but it is sad to me that so many fans use her fame and money to defend her. Yes, Anna is a worldwide celebrity and rich beyond anyone's wildest dreams, but you cannot tell me that Maria and Nastya winning a GS doesn't eat her up. I'm sure that she has enough pride that she wanted to be the first Russian to win a GS and the first to win Wimbledon. Fame and money cannot compensate for everything, particularly when you have to watch someone else live out your biggest dream.

As far as you being the best thing to happen to tennis, you are right and wrong there. Yes, she brings a lot of publicity to the sport. However, most of those fans will not stay since they are only there for the eye candy. For me, I am talking about legitimate fans. The ones who will stay after she has left the sport and there are very few Anna fans that do.

goldenlox
Jul 16th, 2004, 03:45 PM
Maria is going to be objectified as a sex symbol. IMG has made sure of that.

*JR*
Jul 16th, 2004, 03:49 PM
perhaps the best thing to look at in tennis..Anna, that is but I would go as far as to say that without Anna, there would be no Masha...just a hunch that her family might not have dared to dream of the possibilities if they didn't see Anna having the success she was having (and lets not pretend, opportunity to make lots of money) and frankly, Anna has led in the possibilities of making it big off the court as well, and Masha and her family as much as they say tennis (didn't Anna and her camp contend this to be so too) is THE most imp. thing, trust me, the dollar signs are just as imp.

Fignon- the BIGGEST Masha defender since Wimbledon:lol: Except that Sharky arrived here in ('94?) when Anna was merely the top junior, @ age 13. And the whole Russian crop "on either side of 20" Began B4 then (age 5-7 is a Typical Time To start in Tennis Training).

Boris Yeltsin, An Avid player, had made it a prioity. Plus, Natasha Zvereva facing down the Soviets re. keeping a large % of winnings is rarely mentioned As An inspiration, as she's not some mythical "Goddess".

ProudGeordie
Jul 16th, 2004, 03:49 PM
Sharapova is the best thing ever to happen in tennis by miles cos she's not just beautiful but a grand slam winner as well. Kournikova is 2nd though cos she did attract many male audiences.

goldenlox
Jul 16th, 2004, 03:51 PM
Maria has not done anything for the sport yet.

ProudGeordie
Jul 16th, 2004, 03:56 PM
Maria has not done anything for the sport yet.

She's done more than any other russian!

goldenlox
Jul 16th, 2004, 03:58 PM
The ratings for the final were down in the U.S. from last year. Maria's done nothing for the sport of tennis so far.

Anna has said that when she was 12, all the girls in Russia were wearing her hairstyle.

ProudGeordie
Jul 16th, 2004, 04:02 PM
The ratings for the final were down in the U.S. from last year. Maria's done nothing for the sport of tennis so far.

Anna has said that when she was 12, all the girls in Russia were wearing her hairstyle.

Cos most americans would like to see BOTH Williams in the Final. Plus USA is NOT the only country in the world. In other countries esp England, we like to see other matches much more than williams v williams.

the cat
Jul 16th, 2004, 04:05 PM
Good posts Joy! :)

JR, Maria came to Bollettieri's only 2 years after Anna came to Bollettieri's. But I'm sure Yuri Sharapov knew Anna was in Bradenton at Bollettieri's and that's why he brought Masha there. The only difference is Anna was invited to train at Bollettieri's and Yuri and Maria came on a gamble of having Masha's game seen by someone at the academy and that was gamble that paid off.

*JR*
Jul 16th, 2004, 04:22 PM
Roger- i did the math- thanks:) Are you going to sit here and deny the "Anna K. effect " on younger Russians actually entering the sport and families making it a priority:confused: Masha and all the other girls have also learned what not to do and Anna again is to thank for that:) A girl who's now between 13 and 15 may well be playing because Anna the late 90's phenom appeared 2B "it". Re. your words I underscored, OK (but hardly a ringing endorsement Of One willing to sell her soul for money, because that showed the new kids That The piper will be paid).

Goldy, your DISS about Sharky not having boosted the ratings YET is pathetic! :rolleyes: She may (the "consensus" was she'd done wonderfully getting To The final, and was now 2B a sacrificial lamb @ SW19). Furthermore, the fans may just have to watch tennis more As A sport, God forbid!

ys
Jul 16th, 2004, 04:36 PM
Gee, did I upset you?
Sort of. I am really getting on the verge of throwing up when someone uses the right words in the argument, something that is inarguable, and at the same time, to think about it - very little applicable. It's like when at my old work, when I really had to go home and my manager would tell me - "How about team spirit?" A bullshit that you can't argue against.



Look I like Anna, but it is sad to me that so many fans use her fame and money to defend her. Yes, Anna is a worldwide celebrity and rich beyond anyone's wildest dreams, but you cannot tell me that Maria and Nastya winning a GS doesn't eat her up. I'm sure that she has enough pride that she wanted to be the first Russian to win a GS and the first to win Wimbledon. Fame and money cannot compensate for everything, particularly when you have to watch someone else live out your biggest dream. I am not in position to judge. My opinion is that the girl had an extremely bad luck with all injuries she had. And what she managed to do to make sport more popular despite all her injuries is beyond remarkable. I can tell you, that if golf or say downhill skiing would have had a kournikova of their own, many more people would have been skiing and playing golf right now, and that would have been great for particular sport. But they don't have it. Having a celebrity of galactic scale being successful in the sport does help. And I don't think Anna gets enough credit for that. Jealousy.

As far as you being the best thing to happen to tennis, you are right and wrong there. Yes, she brings a lot of publicity to the sport. However, most of those fans will not stay since they are only there for the eye candy. For me, I am talking about legitimate fans. The ones who will stay after she has left the sport and there are very few Anna fans that do. I don't care about that really. More of those "illegitimate" fans = more public attention to the sport. More public attention = more money in the sport. More money in the sport=better pay for all players, better tournaments, better coverage, more public courts, more coaches, more people playing it for recreation or trying to become professionals. That's all good. Look at Russia. It's stupid to deny that there is a piece of Anna's contribution in each of those Slams won, in each Top 10 or Top 100 player. If something doesn't trigger the avalanche at the right time, the chances are that the snow will eventually simply melt. Anna triggered it.

Edward.
Jul 16th, 2004, 04:36 PM
Good posts Joy! :)

JR, Maria came to Bollettieri's only 2 years after Anna came to Bollettieri's. But I'm sure Yuri Sharapov knew Anna was in Bradenton at Bollettieri's and that's why he brought Masha there. The only difference is Anna was invited to train at Bollettieri's and Yuri and Maria came on a gamble of having Masha's game seen by someone at the academy and that was gamble that paid off.

Who is Joy? :confused:

lakeway11
Jul 16th, 2004, 04:47 PM
:haha: for someone who has never won a singles tourney that is quite a statement

apoet29
Jul 16th, 2004, 05:14 PM
Sort of. I am really getting on the verge of throwing up when someone uses the right words in the argument, something that is inarguable, and at the same time, to think about it - very little applicable. It's like when at my old work, when I really had to go home and my manager would tell me - "How about team spirit?" A bullshit that you can't argue against.


I am not in position to judge. My opinion is that the girl had an extremely bad luck with all injuries she had. And what she managed to do to make sport more popular despite all her injuries is beyond remarkable. I can tell you, that if golf or say downhill skiing would have had a kournikova of their own, many more people would have been skiing and playing golf right now, and that would have been great for particular sport. But they don't have it. Having a celebrity of galactic scale being successful in the sport does help. And I don't think Anna gets enough credit for that. Jealousy.

I don't care about that really. More of those "illegitimate" fans = more public attention to the sport. More public attention = more money in the sport. More money in the sport=better pay for all players, better tournaments, better coverage, more public courts, more coaches, more people playing it for recreation or trying to become professionals. That's all good. Look at Russia. It's stupid to deny that there is a piece of Anna's contribution in each of those Slams won, in each Top 10 or Top 100 player. If something doesn't trigger the avalanche at the right time, the chances are that the snow will eventually simply melt. Anna triggered it.
Please don't act like what I said was utter bullshit and inapplicable to the current discussion here. If it was, you would not have reacted that way. You cannot tell me that Anna isn't, in some way, jealous of the accomplishments of Nastya and Maria. Yes, Anna has brought attention to the sport. Yes, she may have opened some doors for the Russian players. (BTW, both of those statements are highly arguable). But that does not change the fact that they have surpassed her accomplishments. Unless Anna actually returns to tennis, all that popularity won't do anything for the sport. Anna hasn't played in a year and has given no timetable for when she will play again. Do you really think those "fans" are watching tennis without her? You've got to be kidding yourself if you do.

Fingon
Jul 16th, 2004, 05:55 PM
I am not in position to judge.
neither any of us, but we can have an opinion.

My opinion is that the girl had an extremely bad luck with all injuries she had.
maybe


And what she managed to do to make sport more popular despite all her injuries is beyond remarkable.
well, even if we accept that Anna made the sport more popular, I don't see how you can credit it to her, it wasn't certainly her aim, if was just a natural consequence of the overhype surrounding her.


I can tell you, that if golf or say downhill skiing would have had a kournikova of their own, many more people would have been skiing and playing golf right now,
in fact, golf is more popular than tennis, and they have a Tiger Woods, they don't need a Kournikova. In skiing it wouldn't help much, as you probably know, it's done on snow, hint: cold, hint: winter clothes --> no skin exposure --> not good to show Anna.


and that would have been great for particular sport. But they don't have it. Having a celebrity of galactic scale being successful in the sport does help. And I don't think Anna gets enough credit for that. Jealousy.
galactic scale? whatever, she is not Britney Spears or Beyonce you know.

succesful?

she doesn't get enough credit? for what, for looking good? how can she get credit for causing an effect she didn't intend to? Anna, like any other player is/was thinking of herself and her career, if that helped the tour, good, but it's not her merit, credit the media if you want.



I don't care about that really. More of those "illegitimate" fans = more public attention to the sport.
More public attention = more money in the sport.
only while Anna is playing, only that particular day.

More money in the sport=better pay for all players,
whatever

better tournaments, better coverage, more public courts, more coaches, more people playing it for recreation or trying to become professionals.
I wonder if you really believe this bullshit

That's all good. Look at Russia. It's stupid to deny that there is a piece of Anna's contribution in each of those Slams won,
Myskina is one year or two younger than Anna, and Sharapova moved to the US before Anna was know, what the heck are you talking about?

in each Top 10 or Top 100 player. If something doesn't trigger the avalanche at the right time, the chances are that the snow will eventually simply melt. Anna triggered it.Anna triggered nothing, the fall of the Soviet union did, give me a break, a 14 years old Anna encouraged a 12 years old Myskina to play tennis? give me a break.

That's another of Anna related myths, did Jennifer Lopez encourage young puerto ricans to start a actor/singer career?

ys
Jul 16th, 2004, 06:44 PM
You cannot tell me that Anna isn't, in some way, jealous of the accomplishments of Nastya and Maria.

Everyone is, in some way. I am.


Yes, Anna has brought attention to the sport. Yes, she may have opened some doors for the Russian players. (BTW, both of those statements are highly arguable).

In every single project there is one crucial step that has to be done. A proof of concept. Anna was a proof of concept. No matter at what position other Russian girls were at that point, Anna's example made sure they knew - it is possible, it is doable.


But that does not change the fact that they have surpassed her accomplishments.
That is natural. True pioneers rarely achieve the most. They lead the rest. They walk their path by trials and errors, because they have nobody ahead of them to learn from their mistakes. The second ones are naturally more successful anywhere. Anna made her share of mistakes. Others should not blame her for that. They should thank.

*JR*
Jul 16th, 2004, 07:45 PM
In every single project there is one crucial step that has to be done. A proof of concept. Anna was a proof of concept. No matter at what position other Russian girls were at that point, Anna's example made sure they knew - it is possible, it is doable. That WHAT is doable, translating athletic potential + marketing hype (as if there aren't @ least 100 girls just as attractive in a city like Cleveland) into getting rich being sold like a piece of meat?

That is natural. True pioneers rarely achieve the most. They lead the rest. They walk their path by trials and errors, because they have nobody ahead of them to learn from their mistakes. The second ones are naturally more successful anywhere. Anna made her share of mistakes. Others should not blame her for that. They should thank. Even you don't believe your own BS on this point. First, the TENNIS pioneers the "Russian Revolution" girls saw @ a young age were ppl like Zvereva. Anna had ample chances to limit the effects of the hype machine, but her priorities were all fucked up.

She'd make the "obligatory" sportswoman type statement like: "Tennis isn't a part of my life. It is my life".... but then reveal her true narcissitic self with ones like: "We are not tennis players, we are stars". Or the "selective reasoning" of: "Am I supposed to hide my face?"

No Anna, but you're not supposed to let the suits use your (face, etc.) to feed the fundamental lie to a willingly gullible public that your (equivilant to 100 + attractive girls in Cleveland) good looks, plus your never realized tennis potential should have you paid millions to "live in a fishbowl".

And we can disagree here on many issues of morality, religion, politics, etc. But (I hope, anyhow) that 99% or so of us are for the concept of women being empowered 2B judged by what they can ACHIEVE. IMO, compromising her chance to maximize her talent because of the marketers' endless demands is an insult to ambitious women in every profession. Except, I guess: acting, modeling, and um :tape:

goldenlox
Jul 16th, 2004, 07:51 PM
What you don't understand is that it's not marketing. There are other beautiful world class athletes. And they've also been marketed.
It's Anna. She's the only woman athlete who draws like she does. It's a line around the block for autographs. Everywhere she goes.
It's only Anna. You can't market this. Or she would have been replaced by now. Or at least challenged.

*JR*
Jul 16th, 2004, 08:18 PM
What you don't understand is that it's not marketing. There are other beautiful world class athletes. And they've also been marketed.
It's Anna. She's the only woman athlete who draws like she does. It's a line around the block for autographs. Everywhere she goes.
It's only Anna. You can't market this. Or she would have been replaced by now. Or at least challenged. Anna could have told her fucking agents circa Y2K that she NEEDED some peace and privacy to get her game together. Would have pouring cold water on the self-perpetuating hysteria cost her (and them) a lot of money? Yes.

Would it have let her put in QUALITY practice time and gotten what she needed OUT OF it, yes. But Anna is the (literal) poster-girl for the "Jerry Maguire School of Tennis". Meaning "Show Me the Money" takes precedence ova EVERYTHING ELSE.

goldenlox
Jul 16th, 2004, 08:21 PM
You don't know how hard she practiced. She was #8 in the world when she had her stress fracture.
I can see you have your mind made up. But the truth is that Anna trained hard, but kept getting injured.

Fingon
Jul 16th, 2004, 08:22 PM
What you don't understand is that it's not marketing. There are other beautiful world class athletes. And they've also been marketed.
It's Anna. She's the only woman athlete who draws like she does. It's a line around the block for autographs. Everywhere she goes.
It's only Anna. You can't market this. Or she would have been replaced by now. Or at least challenged.
it is marketting. Anna is beautiful, but not that beautiful. It's not a matter of just switching, the market techniques used with Anna are exhausted.
Anna was marketted that way when no other player was. She appeared in hundreds, or thousands of web sites and many of them (the majority) weren't devoted to tennis.
You could put "Anna Kournikova" on a search engine and you will get links to adult sites, photo sites, etc., and that happened when access to most of those sites was relatively free. so people that weren't really looking for tennis, would find her neverless.
There were many myths created around Anna, that nobody cared to corroborate, like her name was the # 1 searched term in the internet which was obviously bullshit.
Anna (intentionally or not) has managed to keep attention on herself, even when she is not playing. High profile romances, showing up on a video of a very popular singer, topless photos, a misterious wedding, a bitch fight with Martina Hingis.
You can argue that the magazines have her on the cover because it sells, that the tournament organizers give her special privileges because she sells tickets, but remember they are buying the product as well. They have a perception that Anna will draw sales more than others, that's not necessarily true.
I find it strange that there is so much about Anna just now. How there are constant rumours about her comeback, when a couple of months ago it was assumed she wasn't coming back. Again, there are many important companies that have interests tied to Anna (Omega, Adidas, Octagon) and they push hard to have her exposed. They have invested a lot of money on her and they don't have a good replacement.
There are players that are as or more attractive, but they didn't come at the right time, or don't have the right "attitude" or simply don't care.
When Anna came through she was the only blonde pretty russian coming through, all the focus was on her. Linka K, Elena Dementieva and the other they all came in a bunch, most of them are too shy or too cranky for the media, many of them don't speak proper English, many of them want to succeed in tennis and not as models, and they just are one in many blonde pretty Russian. What made Maria special is that she won a GS. So you have a different message, a blonde, pretty Russian that actually can win, and win big. Maria speaks fluent English, lives in the US and has a personality that fits the bill.
Remember also that although Russian, Anna and Maria are more american products, and they are available all the time. the other Russians, Austrians, Italians or whatever are not, they don't target a market as big.
Take Kim and Justine, neither has a model look, they are inmensely popular in Belgium, there are photos of them on building walls, they are on the news all the time, but Belgium is a tiny country, if they were americans it would be slightly different, but still, they would be 2 among many, when Anna came through, she was one of the kind in the right market, at the right time.
Only Maria IMO can match that, but she needs time, she's just started, she can't get Anna's popularity in a couple of months

ys
Jul 16th, 2004, 08:23 PM
Anna could have told her fucking agents circa Y2K that she NEEDED some peace and privacy to get her game together. Would have pouring cold water on the self-perpetuating hysteria cost her (and them) a lot of money? Yes.

Would it have let her put in QUALITY practice time and gotten what she needed OUT OF it, yes. But Anna is the (literal) poster-girl for the "Jerry Maguire School of Tennis". Meaning "Show Me the Money" takes precedence ova EVERYTHING ELSE.
You seem to have the only right answer for every question in the world. I wonder why are you not as rich as Bill Gates yet..

*JR*
Jul 16th, 2004, 08:28 PM
Only Maria IMO can match that, but she needs time, she's just started, she can't get Anna's popularity in a couple of monthsAnd for Sharky's Sake, Steffi and Chrissie are both far better marketing "role models". ;)

*JR*
Jul 16th, 2004, 08:31 PM
You seem to have the only right answer for every question in the world. I wonder why are you not as rich as Bill Gates yet.. IC you can't rebut the message, if you have to attack the messenger. :p

goldenlox
Jul 16th, 2004, 08:31 PM
This is what Maria fans are dreaming of. Hantuchova fans thought the same thing 2 years ago.
It's Anna, not marketing. And Maria's fans will find this out.

ys
Jul 16th, 2004, 08:40 PM
IC you can't rebut the message, if you have to attack the messenger. :p
Not at all. I am puzzled. Sometimes you seem smart. Sometimes you seem stupid not to be able to see a very simple message in other's posts. And the message is:

If we knew what is going to happen in future we'd all be very successful. We don't know. And neither did Anna. Whoever she is, she is only human. It's easy to see and point at errors of others in retrospect and seem smart, while you are not exposing those errors of your own.

*JR*
Jul 16th, 2004, 08:46 PM
This is what Maria fans are dreaming of. Hantuchova fans thought the same thing 2 years ago.
It's Anna, not marketing. And Maria's fans will find this out. Let's accept your premise that "it's Anna" (not the Marketing Mavens). WTF does that have to do with the fact that she lacked the "sense of honor" to REFUSE to be pimped out As An illusion until She Succeeded in her chosen profession?

apoet29
Jul 16th, 2004, 08:50 PM
What you don't understand is that it's not marketing. There are other beautiful world class athletes. And they've also been marketed.
It's Anna. She's the only woman athlete who draws like she does. It's a line around the block for autographs. Everywhere she goes.
It's only Anna. You can't market this. Or she would have been replaced by now. Or at least challenged.
I agree with you to an extent, but I do think one thing marketed Anna above everything else: her love life. Think about it. With Sergei Fedorov, she played the Lolita role. Every man's secret fantasy. That is what got Anna the big endorsement deals and that is what kept her in the spotlight despite her on the court problems. For the last two years, she has been involved Enrique Iglesias. A famous latin singer from a wealthy and famous family.

Anna was smart enough to market herself in two ways. First, as a sex symbol. Second, as one half of a celebrity couple. Do you really think if Anna were single that anyone would be paying attention to her right now without the tennis? Probably not.

goldenlox
Jul 16th, 2004, 08:51 PM
When you're 16, and Madison Avenue is throwing millions at you, what do you expect her to do?
Like I said, she always trained hard. She had injuries. The injuries didn't hurt her financially, or hurt her popularity. That's what you can't market. No one else has ever done this.
No results in the last year, and another one hour biography. Another magazine cover. A new Gillette endorsement deal.

*JR*
Jul 16th, 2004, 08:58 PM
No results in the last year, and another one hour biography. Another magazine cover. A new Gillette endorsement deal. A sad comment on whatever segment of humanity. :shrug:

ys
Jul 16th, 2004, 08:59 PM
I agree with you to an extent, but I do think one thing marketed Anna above everything else: her love life. Think about it. With Sergei Fedorov, she played the Lolita role.
Sergei Fedorov has never been a factor in her marketing. Never. In opposite, marketing gurus suggested that that could only hurt her marketing process. They were wrong. It could not hurt. It could not help. It didn't matter. It was her. Only her.

Whatzup
Jul 16th, 2004, 09:26 PM
Come back Anna! Your the most sexy and beautiful thing that ever walked on the tenniscourts :p :D

the cat
Jul 16th, 2004, 10:48 PM
Eddy, Joy is Bajangurl.

I'm not sure what to make of this thread anymore. Anna is a phenomenon is her own right and was the most popular female athlete of all time at one point in her career that was slowed by numerous injuries. I don't think Maria will be as famous or as popular as Anna was at her peak. But that's not really important. In a year or two Maria's annual endorsements will even outshine Anna's best years. The sky is the limit for Masha on and off the court. And on the court is where Masha will really shine. :D

VeraNuVirgosFan
Jul 17th, 2004, 09:33 AM
...Masha will never be as famous worldwide as Anna is...

Let's wait and see! Only time can tell!

*JR*
Jul 17th, 2004, 12:03 PM
Let's wait and see! Only time can tell! True. But Sharky quite likely will never be regarded As A way ovapaid underachiever.

goldenlox
Jul 17th, 2004, 01:25 PM
But she'll be looked at as eye candy. Because most people don't care about tennis.