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View Full Version : Is Kim gonna be the new ASV???


Sammm
Aug 19th, 2003, 02:23 PM
While watching a tournament the other day, one of the commentators said they thoughy Kim was going to be the new Arantxa Sanchez Vicario.
Obviously he meant that he thought that there was always going to be someone a littlle bit better than her who stops her from winning as many grand slams as she probably deserves. Arantxa only won 4 of something like 13 grand slam finals, because of Seles, Graf, etc.
Although when Arantxa got the number 1 spot in 95 she actually deserved it. ;)
Do you guys agree??

irma
Aug 19th, 2003, 02:29 PM
asv should have been number 1 after the us open 94. when she got the topspot in 95 steffi was already back from injury and dominating again.

that didn't make sense :o (not that asv shouldn't have been number 1 till the french open, just that she got it when the momentum was switching already and not when she really should have been there)

bandabou
Aug 19th, 2003, 02:33 PM
Very good observation. Kimīs the new ASV in many ways. Both were defense first player although Kim has more power. It isnīt surprising that Kimīs only slam finals were at the french, where ASV also excelled. Clay obviously helps defensive players more than other surfaces.

Due their passive games they couldnīt win against the more agressive players: ASV against Graf and Kim against the Williamses( till now).

irma
Aug 19th, 2003, 02:36 PM
asv was mentally way tougher though 2:1 against steffi in slam finals till steffi started her third career!

irma
Aug 19th, 2003, 02:38 PM
then steffi won the next 4!

bandabou
Aug 19th, 2003, 02:39 PM
asv was mentally way tougher though 2:1 against steffi in slam finals till steffi started her third career!


Yep in that aspect Kim is LIGHT YEARS removed from ASV!

Daniel
Aug 19th, 2003, 02:41 PM
no

great smash
Aug 19th, 2003, 02:44 PM
asv should have been number 1 after the us open 94. when she got the topspot in 95 steffi was already back from injury and dominating again.

that didn't make sense :o (not that asv shouldn't have been number 1 till the french open, just that she got it when the momentum was switching already and not when she really should have been there)

Nothing new there. It's just the nature of the rankings, that you do not necesarilly become no.1 during the period you're playing your best, but just before you'll actually start losing points from the previous year.

That's why with a healthy Serena Kim would have become no.1 just before the indoor season.

Kafelnikov hardly won a match during the period he was no.1

Rafter was no.1 week, just before facing the defence of his US hard court titles.

Mase
Aug 19th, 2003, 02:48 PM
I dont think so either, I think she'll come into her own eventually and be more dominate that ASV was, not that she wasnt, I just think Kim will eventually dominate more.... time will tell.

great smash
Aug 19th, 2003, 02:55 PM
Very good observation. Kimīs the new ASV in many ways. Both were defense first player although Kim has more power. It isnīt surprising that Kimīs only slam finals were at the french, where ASV also excelled. Clay obviously helps defensive players more than other surfaces.

Due their passive games they couldnīt win against the more agressive players: ASV against Graf and Kim against the Williamses( till now).

I still do not consider Kim as a claycourt player. The fact stands of course that she did make the FO final twice and no final anywhere else.

To me she is still better on other surfaces, the only reason she hasn't made the finals anywhere else is that the ones that have prevented her from doing so, or at least as, are even more vulnerable on clay than she is.

bandabou
Aug 19th, 2003, 02:58 PM
I dont think so either, I think she'll come into her own eventually and be more dominate that ASV was, not that she wasnt, I just think Kim will eventually dominate more.... time will tell.

And who exactlyīs she gonna dominate?! Serena?! Nope! Venus?! Nope!Justine?! maybe......

That isnīt THAT dominating, is it?!

Volcana
Aug 19th, 2003, 03:10 PM
While watching a tournament the other day, one of the commentators said they thoughy Kim was going to be the new Arantxa Sanchez Vicario.
Obviously he meant that he thought that there was always going to be someone a littlle bit better than her who stops her from winning as many grand slams as she probably deserves. Arantxa only won 4 of something like 13 grand slam finals, because of Seles, Graf, etc.
Although when Arantxa got the number 1 spot in 95 she actually deserved it. ;)
Do you guys agree??

Well, they couldn't have meant 'more than she deserves ...' Ultimately, the beauty of sports is that, as long as the rules are followed, everyone gets EXACTLY what they 'deserve'.

Putting that aside, there is another, interpretation you can put on those words. 'the new Arantxa Sanchez Vicario' would be a tireless, wide ranging retreiver, with relatively minimal offense vs elite players.

You heard the announcer, I didn't. But your paraphrase of his words does not imply he thought there would 'always going to be someone a littlle bit better than her'.

Maybe you could relate little more info?

tommyk75
Aug 19th, 2003, 03:19 PM
I don't really buy into this comparison too much. Kim can generate her own power, much more so than Aranxta could (Aranxta was a master of using her opponents' power against them). However, as other have said, Aranxta was a whole lot stronger mentally. She was as tough of a competitor as anyone in tennis history. If Aranxta had the weapons of a Navratilova or a Williams, she may have never lost a match! :)

Sammm
Aug 22nd, 2003, 01:28 PM
What the commentator also said was that he thought she wouldn't be able to beat 2 top players in a row as Sanchez Vicario did. She often managed to beat one top player then not the next. Eg, at the 96 Olympics, French Open 92.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 22nd, 2003, 02:40 PM
I don't really buy into this comparison too much. Kim can generate her own power, much more so than Aranxta could (Aranxta was a master of using her opponents' power against them). However, as other have said, Aranxta was a whole lot stronger mentally. She was as tough of a competitor as anyone in tennis history. If Aranxta had the weapons of a Navratilova or a Williams, she may have never lost a match! :)


If she had those weapons she wouldn't be the ASV we came to know and love/be annoyed by. What people fail to realize is when you attain WMD, your whole thought process changes. "Why would I run myself ragged retrieving ball after ball when I can possibly snap off a winner on the fifth shot?"

tennnisfannn
Aug 22nd, 2003, 04:37 PM
While watching a tournament the other day, one of the commentators said they thoughy Kim was going to be the new Arantxa Sanchez Vicario.
Obviously he meant that he thought that there was always going to be someone a littlle bit better than her who stops her from winning as many grand slams as she probably deserves. Arantxa only won 4 of something like 13 grand slam finals, because of Seles, Graf, etc.
Although when Arantxa got the number 1 spot in 95 she actually deserved it. ;)
Do you guys agree??

I don't buy the arguement that there will always be someone better to stop her from winning many grandslams. Can we therefore say the same of venus, has Serena stopped her from winning many more GSs. Have the williams stopped Lindsay from winning many more? Did justine stop Serena from winning the FO 2003? The answer is YES but every champion stops 127 other players from winning the title! The champion deserves the win and no player who loses could be said to have deserved it more unless through no fault of their own like seles' stabbing. Injuries are a part of physical fitness and though a player may be forced to withdraw, he does not necessarily deserve the title.

Am I the only who sees Kim as being at the beginning of her career? people seem to judge her as though it is all over for her, the improvement she has made in the last year hasn't ended yet! The comparison to ASV can only be made when Kim retires. No two players have the same destiny in sports regardless of how alike their games are.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 22nd, 2003, 04:42 PM
umm first of all Kim's camp is saying she will retire in three years, so this would not be the beginning of her career.

"The champion deserves the win and no player who loses could be said to have deserved it more unless through no fault of their own like seles' stabbing"

The only person who deserves the win is the person who won all of his or her matches. Not to belittle any of these tragedies, but being stabbed, hit by a car, falling from a horse, knocked from a horse, doesn't mean that player "deserved" the championship.

Martian Willow
Aug 22nd, 2003, 05:05 PM
I don't think the comparison has anything to do with their games. It's just that Kim is only #1 because the better player is injured, in the same way ASV became #1 because Steffi was injured.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 22nd, 2003, 05:13 PM
I think Kim would be very happy to win four slams in the next three years when she retires.

raquel
Aug 22nd, 2003, 06:50 PM
I don't think the comparison has anything to do with their games. It's just that Kim is only #1 because the better player is injured, in the same way ASV became #1 because Steffi was injured.
Steffi was injured at the time ASV got to number 1 I think, however Arantxa was holding 2 Slams when she got to number 1 and Steffi was holding none at that time, so I dont think it is fair to say she only got the number one just because Steffi was injured. Kim is holding no Grand Slams so I think ASV merited her number one ranking more.