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View Full Version : Most/Least orthodox/textbook strokes


alexusjonesfan
Aug 19th, 2003, 03:40 AM
For every stroke in tennis, which player(s) would have coaches drooling over as a textbook shot which all their young students should aspire to duplicate and which player(s) would have coaches cringing and forbidding their students from picking up such bad habits?

Which strokes from which players are good enough to put in a tennis museum for all others to learn from?

I've heard of Lindsay's textbook service motion and Amelie's classic one handed backhand, but what are the others?

ProjectMayhem
Aug 19th, 2003, 04:55 AM
Well Hingis' strokes were almost too good for any textbook, at least in their motion, serve included. As for players still playing, Serena's forehand, Lindsay's serve, Daniela's backhand, and Mauresmo's volleys are all very technically flawless. As for the least sound strokes, we'd have to look at Venus' forehand, Myskina's serve, Monica's volleys. Interestingly, I can't really think of a women's player who hits a really bad backhand. No, wait, Alexandra Stevenson has a super-ugly backhand motion that produces a terrible result.

Knizzle
Aug 19th, 2003, 05:00 AM
Venus' open stance backhand is the best.

ProjectMayhem
Aug 19th, 2003, 05:50 AM
Knizzle remains retarted. Venus' backhand cannot be called the most technically sound because she hits it late and on her back foot. Effective yes, textbook no.

Knizzle
Aug 19th, 2003, 05:56 AM
Knizzle remains retarted. Venus' backhand cannot be called the most technically sound because she hits it late and on her back foot. Effective yes, textbook no.

She doesn't hit it on her backfoot unless she is on the run and is off balance. She gets her racket back early, has an excellent contact point taking the ball at it's best bounce, great acceleration through the shot, and an excellent shoulder turn on the follow through. It's effective for a reason because it is techincally sound.

xr6turbo
Aug 19th, 2003, 06:01 AM
I have to agree with Project here!! Both Venus and Serena have many great shots. But they really threw the texbook out when they learned them. If you watch Venus' forehand especially, she sometimes has her right foot a little bit in front of her left which is the complete opposite of what the textbook says!!

Her backhand is truely great, i just love that fact that she can hit it anywhere that she wants!! But it certainly wasn't learnt out of no textbook!!

Vincent
Aug 19th, 2003, 06:01 AM
Well Hingis' strokes were almost too good for any textbook, at least in their motion, serve included. As for players still playing, Serena's forehand, Lindsay's serve, Daniela's backhand, and Mauresmo's volleys are all very technically flawless. As for the least sound strokes, we'd have to look at Venus' forehand, Myskina's serve, Monica's volleys. Interestingly, I can't really think of a women's player who hits a really bad backhand. No, wait, Alexandra Stevenson has a super-ugly backhand motion that produces a terrible result.
What's wrong with Myskina's serve?:confused::)

ProjectMayhem
Aug 19th, 2003, 06:02 AM
No, it is not a technically sound shot, Venus has no technically sound shots, which makes her success all the more astonishing. For that matter some of the best shots in tennis are not always the prettiest. Roddick's serve, Graf's forehand, and Seles' swing volleys are good examples of this.

Oops, but I forgot, Venus is the greatest player ever, who has more variety than Justine Henin, and the most solid, textbook shots ever, with a charming persona and good looks.

Face it, IT JUST ISN'T TRUE, so try to look objectively at your favorite.

banana
Aug 19th, 2003, 06:04 AM
Capriati and davenport have the most techniquely sound ground strokes, and Serena the best service action

Knizzle
Aug 19th, 2003, 06:06 AM
No, it is not a technically sound shot, Venus has no technically sound shots, which makes her success all the more astonishing. For that matter some of the best shots in tennis are not always the prettiest. Roddick's serve, Graf's forehand, and Seles' swing volleys are good examples of this.

Oops, but I forgot, Venus is the greatest player ever, who has more variety than Justine Henin, and the most solid, textbook shots ever, with a charming persona and good looks.

Face it, IT JUST ISN'T TRUE, so try to look objectively at your favorite.

I do look objectively at all players, but it's hard to feel that you are objective when you blatantly wish bad things on certain players in your signature. You're a typical hater. If a shot doesn't break down, and works very, very, well how can it not be technically sound?? That would be contradictory. How can Graf have the best forehand ever, but it not be technically sound. It may not be like all the rest, but that doesn't make it bad.

kyk710
Aug 19th, 2003, 06:06 AM
Oops, but I forgot, Venus is the greatest player ever, who has more variety than Justine Henin, and the most solid, textbook shots ever, with a charming persona and good looks.

You're right! Venus IS all of those things!

Great post :worship:

Knizzle
Aug 19th, 2003, 06:09 AM
Well Hingis' strokes were almost too good for any textbook, at least in their motion, serve included. As for players still playing, Serena's forehand, Lindsay's serve, Daniela's backhand, and Mauresmo's volleys are all very technically flawless. As for the least sound strokes, we'd have to look at Venus' forehand, Myskina's serve, Monica's volleys. Interestingly, I can't really think of a women's player who hits a really bad backhand. No, wait, Alexandra Stevenson has a super-ugly backhand motion that produces a terrible result.

Serena still has problems with her contact point on her forehand. Serena has the best service motion though. There are worse forehands than Venus on tour.

Gospodin
Aug 19th, 2003, 06:13 AM
when you say technically sound, it must mean that its a technique so based on fundamentals such that when pulled off by amateurs will produce technically predictable results. on venus' strokes, do you people think anybody can pull off those techniques the way venus does it and get the same result as venus? if not, then technique is not technically sound. given that, that also means that venus is more impressive than people give her credit for if she can dominate with lousy (re: non-conventional, lousy for anybody else) technique.

Knizzle
Aug 19th, 2003, 06:32 AM
when you say technically sound, it must mean that its a technique so based on fundamentals such that when pulled off by amateurs will produce technically predictable results. on venus' strokes, do you people think anybody can pull off those techniques the way venus does it and get the same result as venus? if not, then technique is not technically sound. given that, that also means that venus is more impressive than people give her credit for if she can dominate with lousy (re: non-conventional, lousy for anybody else) technique.

Her technique on her backhand is sound. It may not be textbook, but I never said it was textbook. But her backhand is sound or else it wouldn't work.

oddkayla
Aug 19th, 2003, 07:41 AM
Venus has the best two handed backhand!

Serena has the best serve

Lindsay has the best forehand. So does Capriati

When I think of the best shots I think of shots that players have that produce results that are intended.

I think overall off the ground, Lindsay is the most technically sound. She hits the ball so cleanly that even coming off her racket, it sounds different.

ktwtennis
Aug 19th, 2003, 01:12 PM
Monica CAN volley technically sound...I'd say Kapros' serve is NOT technically sound...

moby
Aug 19th, 2003, 01:18 PM
the technically worst stroke ever was graf's forehand
it is probably also the best shot in women's tennis we'll ever see

SM
Aug 19th, 2003, 01:43 PM
Jelena Dokic's 'second' serve

bandabou
Aug 19th, 2003, 01:48 PM
best service´s motion: Serena. That´s the way it was meant to do.
best two handed backhand: Venus. People go gaga on Justine´s backhand, but afte re-watching the ´00 us open semi it´s clear that Venus has the best backhand...she can hit anywhere, anytime.

Pureracket
Aug 19th, 2003, 01:57 PM
Knizzle remains retarted .


:lol: :lol: :lol:

alexusjonesfan
Aug 19th, 2003, 03:09 PM
Capriati?
I know she can do a lot with that forehand, but I always thought she hit it much differently than it should be hit.

btw, that doesn't mean I'm bashing the Capster :p

I also always liked Jana Novotna's service motion. Contrast that to Elena D's and what a difference :eek:. I'm sure Elena can hit bigger serves than Jana ever did but she does it in a very unorthodox way.

tommyk75
Aug 19th, 2003, 03:15 PM
Gotta go with Lindsay D. She takes the racket back early, has a smooth and compact swing, and she moves forward through the shot. Is she better than everyone else? No. But does she have the best technique for tennis neophytes to emulate? In my opinion, yes. Her technique's actually quite similar to that of the most "textbook" player ever: Chris Evert. Lindsay just pumped up the power by several levels.

Infiniti2001
Aug 19th, 2003, 03:18 PM
when you say technically sound, it must mean that its a technique so based on fundamentals such that when pulled off by amateurs will produce technically predictable results. on venus' strokes, do you people think anybody can pull off those techniques the way venus does it and get the same result as venus? if not, then technique is not technically sound. given that, that also means that venus is more impressive than people give her credit for if she can dominate with lousy (re: non-conventional, lousy for anybody else) technique.


:worship: :worship: :worship: Technically dissecting players strokes is pointless. Results is what that counts...

Jeff
Aug 19th, 2003, 03:21 PM
I'd have to say Melien Tu's serve is technically sound :lol:

alexusjonesfan
Aug 19th, 2003, 03:24 PM
:worship: :worship: :worship: Technically dissecting players strokes is pointless results is what that counts...

I agree, results are more important. But, I'm trying to improve my tennis here, and I don't think I can hit multiple winners from the baseline just by imitating Steffi's forehand motion.

Having classic strokes means just that, and only that. It doesn't mean that you're automatically good, bad, ugly, stupid or whatever. Stop taking offense people.

RAA
Aug 19th, 2003, 03:27 PM
Serena's service motion is wonderful.

Most of hingis' strokes were textbook. I would disagree a bit about her serve. she didn't get nearly enough of her lower body into the serve.. but still, I agree virtually all of hingis' strokes were pretty textbook.

Venus has got a serious hitch to her serve, especially her second serve.

I can't even watch Conchita Martinez serve..

tennisfan1972
Aug 19th, 2003, 03:34 PM
Venus' hitting partner wrote a book and in it he stated that as a child, Venus learned to hit her two-handed backhand open stance in such a way that u never ever were able to read her shot. People advised her to correct teh technique on it but the coach insisted that she keep it since she had actually mastered the shot in her own brain and it had become such a weapon for her since 9 out of 10 time she could hit the shot that she wanted and the opponent never knew where the ball was going to go. So thats why Venus never corrected the technique on her backhand. The coach/hitting partner argued that if she can hit that shot 9 out of 10 times why change it since it is her best shot. and i think he was right. Now im not sure what happened with her service motion. This guy also went on to say that Venus would also eventually become a better player than serena in the long run. Have u ever noticed though seriously how Venus is able to jerk serena around the court like no other player? interesting prospects for the future.

bandabou
Aug 19th, 2003, 03:47 PM
Venus' hitting partner wrote a book and in it he stated that as a child, Venus learned to hit her two-handed backhand open stance in such a way that u never ever were able to read her shot. People advised her to correct teh technique on it but the coach insisted that she keep it since she had actually mastered the shot in her own brain and it had become such a weapon for her since 9 out of 10 time she could hit the shot that she wanted and the opponent never knew where the ball was going to go. So thats why Venus never corrected the technique on her backhand. The coach/hitting partner argued that if she can hit that shot 9 out of 10 times why change it since it is her best shot. and i think he was right. Now im not sure what happened with her service motion. This guy also went on to say that Venus would also eventually become a better player than serena in the long run. Have u ever noticed though seriously how Venus is able to jerk serena around the court like no other player? interesting prospects for the future.


Agree, agree and agree! That is what makes Venus backhand deadly. You don´t know WHERE it´s going.... I almost forgot about how good it was, but at Wimby against Kim...she was totally fooling Kim with that backhand. I was like:" Kim´s such a fool. Wanna go backhand vs backhand with VENUS WILLIAMS?!" Many times when Kim was expecting the cross-court backhand, Venus would go down the line with the same motion!

I always believed that too. The player who best can compete with Serena is Venus and vice versa. Venus had Serena on the ropes at wimby. I don´t know if she would have won without injury( ´cause Serena´s such a fighter!), but the match could been VERY INTERESTING!!

Infiniti2001
Aug 19th, 2003, 03:47 PM
Stop taking offense people.

I'm not at all offended. I think I spoke on behalf of all the players -- not just my fav. :eek:

jean_genie
Aug 19th, 2003, 03:47 PM
Venus' hitting partner wrote a book and in it he stated that as a child, Venus learned to hit her two-handed backhand open stance in such a way that u never ever were able to read her shot. People advised her to correct teh technique on it but the coach insisted that she keep it since she had actually mastered the shot in her own brain and it had become such a weapon for her since 9 out of 10 time she could hit the shot that she wanted and the opponent never knew where the ball was going to go. So thats why Venus never corrected the technique on her backhand. The coach/hitting partner argued that if she can hit that shot 9 out of 10 times why change it since it is her best shot. and i think he was right. Now im not sure what happened with her service motion. This guy also went on to say that Venus would also eventually become a better player than serena in the long run. Have u ever noticed though seriously how Venus is able to jerk serena around the court like no other player? interesting prospects for the future.

I read that book too and agree with you. Venus' backhand is her weapon and with the way she can go anywhere with it makes it technically sound (by the way, they "teach" her open stance backhand and forehand at IMG-Bollettieri so all the up and comers will be clones of that technique). As far as Venus' serve, it seems like she developed that hitch after the 97 USOpen because in that match, her motion looks very much like Serena's does now. That book also speaks to why Serena is so technically sound and face it she is overall so classic and beautiful in her strokes because she had to practice and to learn how whereas it seems that Venus is a little bit more like Hingis--two prodigies. But technically sound means the shot is effective and you are doing the right things like meeting the ball out front, keeping your head still, turning your shoulders, following through, etc. and I think Venus is technically sound, just not "classic" or old school textbook-like in her motions.
Serena's serve (first and second) is a thing of beauty.
Watching Davenport's forehand is like taking a lesson.
Mauresmo's one handed backhand is also classic, even moreso than Justine's.
Lisa Raymond makes net work (volleying) look easy, she gets down low to the shot, moves forward, split steps--VERY SMOOTH.

alexusjonesfan
Aug 19th, 2003, 03:51 PM
I'm not at all offended.

I'm glad then. Sorry for any misunderstanding :wavey:

tennisfan1972
Aug 19th, 2003, 05:12 PM
I think thats why Venus was able to dominate so back in 2000 and 2001. Sh eactually had both her backhand and forehand working like magic. And with 3 deadly shots at her disposal (serve, forehand, backhand) there really wasnt much an opponent could do against her no matter who she played. Th ething that serena has done to counteract these weapons from Venus is to take teh ball so dang early. Its unreal how early serena takes teh ball. it sometimes looks as if she is half volleying but with deadly power and angles. I think taking the ball early as Hingis tried to do later in her career against power players is the way to go.

Diya
Aug 19th, 2003, 05:31 PM
Most technically sound strokes (i ain't no expert or anything ) : Lindsay Davenport (but i like Martina AND Anna's volleys better than LD')

Least technically sound strokes : I guess Alex and sometimes the W/S (since they mostly try to ONLY hit the ball as hard as they can)

Gandalf
Aug 19th, 2003, 05:34 PM
Least tecnically sound but effective:

Venus's 1st serve
Graf's forehand
Monica's forehand

Least tecnically sound and ineffective:

Sabatini's serve
ASV's forehand

SerenaSlam
Aug 19th, 2003, 05:40 PM
i think people need to understand what its meant by technically sound. that doesn't mean or have anything to do with 'textbook" shots. and personally i wouldn't want to be coachin a tennis player on "textbook" shots. every tennis player has their own shots. and you have venus and serena at the top of the game w/out any textbook shots. its what works best for the players. "textbook" shots i think are on the downfall. i can't even say lindsay d has textbook shots. she just has the most fluent motion out there on the tour. venus does indeed have the best "technically sound" back hand down the line, down the middle, cross court etc on tour. her backhand down the line is just extra sweet compared to everyone elses. its just a "natural" shot for her to hit, compared to watching others, they need to wait for the right ball. venus doesn't, she has made her shot capable of hitting it down the line on any type of ball/bounce.

serena's forehand i think is the best "technically sound". i hear people saying it goes off some times, but please name me a player out there who's shots have "never" gone off? everyone shots don't stay on key all the time. serena's has been more so on than off. her forehand and serve are just OC! i would teach them anytime.

Ryan
Aug 19th, 2003, 05:51 PM
In caelestia's initial post she?/he? said 'textbook', not 'technically sound'. So I don't know why most of you are arguing over Venus' amazingly good but not textbook backhand.



I think Lindsay's backhand is very textbook, with great use of her left arm. Hingis' shots were textbook as well, but her lower body on her serve didn't do much.

Elena Dementieva's second serve is AWFUL. She just arms it with heavy slice and the rest of her body does nothing to help. I think Dokic's new serve is abysmal, and looks so choppy.

alexusjonesfan
Aug 19th, 2003, 06:04 PM
In caelestia's initial post she?/he? said 'textbook', not 'technically sound'. So I don't know why most of you are arguing over Venus' amazingly good but not textbook backhand.


Thanks Ryan16 (I'm a he btw), that's exactly what I meant. I know 'technically sound' can mean different things to different people (and everyone seems to believe their definition is the right one)...but what I meant to ask was which players have 'textbook strokes' or 'orthodox/classic shots'. That is the definition of 'technically sound' that I'm using and through which I wanted to ask the question. If you don't like my definition of that phrase, then ignore it and refrain from 'reinterpreting' it in a different light. Like I said before, it doesn't have anything to do with being a good or bad shot, just with the motion of the stroke.

bandabou
Aug 19th, 2003, 06:07 PM
I think thats why Venus was able to dominate so back in 2000 and 2001. Sh eactually had both her backhand and forehand working like magic. And with 3 deadly shots at her disposal (serve, forehand, backhand) there really wasnt much an opponent could do against her no matter who she played. Th ething that serena has done to counteract these weapons from Venus is to take teh ball so dang early. Its unreal how early serena takes teh ball. it sometimes looks as if she is half volleying but with deadly power and angles. I think taking the ball early as Hingis tried to do later in her career against power players is the way to go.

Exactly....I noticed that at last year´s wimbledon. Normally Venus is such a great defensive player she´s unbeatable on grass.....but with Serena, she was always under pressure. How?! ´Cause Serena was taking the balls early, didn´t give Venus time at all.

Knizzle
Aug 19th, 2003, 06:12 PM
I read that book too and agree with you. Venus' backhand is her weapon and with the way she can go anywhere with it makes it technically sound (by the way, they "teach" her open stance backhand and forehand at IMG-Bollettieri so all the up and comers will be clones of that technique). As far as Venus' serve, it seems like she developed that hitch after the 97 USOpen because in that match, her motion looks very much like Serena's does now. That book also speaks to why Serena is so technically sound and face it she is overall so classic and beautiful in her strokes because she had to practice and to learn how whereas it seems that Venus is a little bit more like Hingis--two prodigies. But technically sound means the shot is effective and you are doing the right things like meeting the ball out front, keeping your head still, turning your shoulders, following through, etc. and I think Venus is technically sound, just not "classic" or old school textbook-like in her motions.
Serena's serve (first and second) is a thing of beauty.
Watching Davenport's forehand is like taking a lesson.
Mauresmo's one handed backhand is also classic, even moreso than Justine's.
Lisa Raymond makes net work (volleying) look easy, she gets down low to the shot, moves forward, split steps--VERY SMOOTH.

:worship: :worship: :worship: Thank you, finally someone making some sense in here besides me.

SerenaSlam
Aug 19th, 2003, 06:15 PM
players on tour and coaches are not looking for "textbook" shots. the "textbook" in shots are gone. no-one seems to do them nowadays. and if they do do it, its rare. that is why its more so everyone talk about how "technically sound" a players shots are b/c its "their" shot, how they hit it different from the others. therefore people are looking at the technicallity of the shot.

textbook shots just don't make it in tennis anymore. hell, you hardly see people even trying to hit traditional volleys anymore.

CamilleVidann
Aug 19th, 2003, 06:21 PM
But I still believe some top players have textbook shots such as Lindsay's serve and forehand. They are so smooth and clean don't ya think? She doesn't hit those shots with power but rather with sound techniques.

bandabou
Aug 19th, 2003, 06:29 PM
But I still believe some top players have textbook shots such as Lindsay's serve and forehand. They are so smooth and clean don't ya think? She doesn't hit those shots with power but rather with sound techniques.

Serena´s serve is more textbook than Lindsay´s. In fact when you want to learn the perfect service motion.....it´s Serena´s. How do u explain that she can serve harder than Lindsay and sometimes as hard as Venus?! Yeah, she´s strong.....but still she´s almost 4-5 inches shorter than those two.

Plus she mirrored her serve after Pete´s. Not bad example,huh?!