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View Full Version : How come fans of players other than the WS don't have confidence in their favorites?


Knizzle
Aug 18th, 2003, 04:20 AM
Williams fans receive alot of backlash because we have so much confidence that V and S will win the tournaments they play in, and that they are better than anyone else they step on the court with. Of course Williams fans know that it's possible for Venus and Serena to lose, but they are NOT losers, and they have extreme ability and confidence in themselves so why shouldn't their fans be confident also?? Bottom line is that they don't lose often, so why would their fans doubt their ability to beat the competition at a tournament. They've done it consistently before and there is nothing to stop them from doing it again. Why should the confidence Williams fans have in V and S affect fans of other players?? It seems like the ones who get upset when WS fans expect them to win a tourney believe that the WS will win also and are troubled by the fact that other players don't win as often. If I was a Henin fan and I truly believed no one would beat Henin at a certain tournament, then I would say it. Just because someone thinks that a certain player is going to win a tourney doesn't mean the others are insignificant or don't have a chance.

Knizzle
Aug 18th, 2003, 04:52 AM
:devil:

disposablehero
Aug 18th, 2003, 04:59 AM
You did a fantastic job of picking favourite players. You are a genius. Did you do it before or after Venus was in the 97 US Open Final?

Sam L
Aug 18th, 2003, 05:02 AM
Because we didn't have the great Richard Williams to instill that confidence in us. Duh! :rolleyes:

Knizzle
Aug 18th, 2003, 05:39 AM
You did a fantastic job of picking favourite players. You are a genius. Did you do it before or after Venus was in the 97 US Open Final?

That tourney was the first time I had a chance to see Venus. I am not going to be able to take a liking to a player if I don't see them play. And I liked her before she made the final. ;)

Fingon
Aug 18th, 2003, 06:00 AM
it's called being realistic.

You are asking, why do fans of other players don't have the same confidence as Venus and Serena fans?

Anyone has to admit Serena is the best player, obviously IF Serena was my favourite I would be very confident in any tournament she played.

My first favourite is Justine and I have a lot of confidence in her, I know she can beat anyone but I also know that most of the times she faces Venus or Serena on hardcourts or grass she is likely to lose, that's not lack of confidence, it's common sense, thinking otherwise would be living in a fantasy world.

I have other favourites, my most recent addition is Lina Krasnoroutskaya (and not because she beat Clijsters but because I like her game and also, I met her in practices and she is the sweetest girl in the tour), what would I expect of Lina? she is young, has potential but still needs to work in many things, would I hope her to win every time? yes, would I expect it? no, at least not for now.

Barbara Schett, everyone knows she isn't having good results, I believe she can do a lot better than she's been doing and that she is better than many players ranked above her, but in her current form I am just happy when she wins matches, would I expect her to win the US Open to show the "same confidence in my favourites as Williams fans"?

I am sure many fans have chosen their favourites for reasons other than their tennis (looks, personality, nationality, race, sexual orientation or whatever), if you like a player let's say because she is beautiful, does it mean that automatically she becomes the best player in the world? How can you be confident in your favourite doing something she isn't capable of?

In the case of Justine, clearly the best player among my favourites, the confidence has been growing in me while she's been showing results. Before San Diego I thought her chances of winning the US Open were nearly zero, and I was being realistic, not less of a fan, just a fan with his feet on the ground. AFTER she won San Diego, and with Serena out and Venus dubious then I started to REALISTICALLY have confidence in her chances, and still, despite her recent results, I know (again, not lack of confidence, just common sense) that she can lose to Clijsters, or Mauresmo, or Davenport, or Capriati or even someone else.

Unless you consider that to be a fan you have to lose all traces of rationality and just blindly believe that your favourite is perfect

SerialKiller#69
Aug 18th, 2003, 06:09 AM
Well,obviously you know the reasons. That's why victory is always sweet when our faves beats Venus or Serena. But some "people" have a problem in that department.

It seems that your concern really is that others do not put the WS on a pedestal like you do.

Knizzle
Aug 18th, 2003, 06:14 AM
it's called being realistic.

You are asking, why do fans of other players don't have the same confidence as Venus and Serena fans?

Anyone has to admit Serena is the best player, obviously IF Serena was my favourite I would be very confident in any tournament she played.

My first favourite is Justine and I have a lot of confidence in her, I know she can beat anyone but I also know that most of the times she faces Venus or Serena on hardcourts or grass she is likely to lose, that's not lack of confidence, it's common sense, thinking otherwise would be living in a fantasy world.

I have other favourites, my most recent addition is Lina Krasnoroutskaya (and not because she beat Clijsters but because I like her game and also, I met her in practices and she is the sweetest girl in the tour), what would I expect of Lina? she is young, has potential but still needs to work in many things, would I hope her to win every time? yes, would I expect it? no, at least not for now.

Barbara Schett, everyone knows she isn't having good results, I believe she can do a lot better than she's been doing and that she is better than many players ranked above her, but in her current form I am just happy when she wins matches, would I expect her to win the US Open to show the "same confidence in my favourites as Williams fans"?

I am sure many fans have chosen their favourites for reasons other than their tennis (looks, personality, nationality, race, sexual orientation or whatever), if you like a player let's say because she is beautiful, does it mean that automatically she becomes the best player in the world? How can you be confident in your favourite doing something she isn't capable of?

In the case of Justine, clearly the best player among my favourites, the confidence has been growing in me while she's been showing results. Before San Diego I thought her chances of winning the US Open were nearly zero, and I was being realistic, not less of a fan, just a fan with his feet on the ground. AFTER she won San Diego, and with Serena out and Venus dubious then I started to REALISTICALLY have confidence in her chances, and still, despite her recent results, I know (again, not lack of confidence, just common sense) that she can lose to Clijsters, or Mauresmo, or Davenport, or Capriati or even someone else.

Unless you consider that to be a fan you have to lose all traces of rationality and just blindly believe that your favourite is perfect

No, a fan shouldn't lose a hold on reality. In the case of WS fans, believing they will win is not unrealistic, nor is it for Henin, Clijsters, Capriati, Mauresmo, etc., because they all have chances, some greater than others, but if a fan truly believes a player is going to win then I don't see anything wrong with stating that they are going to win. None of us know the future so it's sort of childish for others to ask "How do you know Serena is going to win, can you predict the future??" Of course we can't, but we have the belief.

Knizzle
Aug 18th, 2003, 06:16 AM
Well,obviously you know the reasons. That's why victory is always sweet when our faves beats Venus or Serena. But some "people" have a problem in that department.

It seems that your concern really is that others do not put the WS on a pedestal like you do.

I agree with the first part of your statement. I don't have a concern that others don't think as highly of the WS. I could care less, but don't jump on WS fans just because we say and believe the WS are going to win.

Fingon
Aug 18th, 2003, 06:19 AM
No, a fan shouldn't lose a hold on reality. In the case of WS fans, believing they will win is not unrealistic, nor is it for Henin, Clijsters, Capriati, Mauresmo, etc., because they all have chances, some greater than others, but if a fan truly believes a player is going to win then I don't see anything wrong with stating that they are going to win. None of us know the future so it's sort of childish for others to ask "How do you know Serena is going to win, can you predict the future??" Of course we can't, but we have the belief.


sorry, I mostly replied to the title of the thread than to your post and I read it more carefully after I posted.

to answer your question, I dont' see anything wrong in a fan thinking his/her favourite can win a tournament, I don't like to make predictions myself but I don't see anything wrong in others doing it.

Now, if a fan of Nancy Loeffler Caro thinks she is gonna win the US Open, then that's another matter

TeeRexx
Aug 18th, 2003, 08:47 AM
I followed the WILLIAMS since they played at local exhibitions in the L.A. area. :)

Of course, some fans didn't start following Monica unntil she had won 5-6 slams. :p

CamilleVidann
Aug 18th, 2003, 08:53 AM
Would I be wrong if I said the majority of Williams fans are black or from black related backgrounds?

Knizzle
Aug 18th, 2003, 08:54 AM
Would I be wrong if I said the majority of Williams fans are black or from black related backgrounds?

Yes you would.

CamilleVidann
Aug 18th, 2003, 08:58 AM
I thought I would be right.........

Knizzle
Aug 18th, 2003, 09:29 AM
I thought I would be right.........

You thought wrong. :devil:

firefly_ac
Aug 18th, 2003, 10:06 AM
excuse me...I've absolute faith in Dani!!! Though she is'nt doing quite well recently,i still support her...She has an indomitable spirit tt i like...

tennnisfannn
Aug 18th, 2003, 10:34 AM
Would I be wrong if I said the majority of Williams fans are black or from black related backgrounds?
Would I be wrong if I said the majority of Belgian fans are white or from white related backgrounds?

Caz
Aug 18th, 2003, 10:41 AM
I don't see anything wrong with a fan thinking their fave is going to win a tournament.....however, considering my personal faves are players like Magui Serna, Vivi Ruano, Patricia Tarabini, Anastassia Rodionova etc., etc. whilst I have every faith they'll...errrm.....show up for their matches and.....errrm...try their best, I think I'd be needing a reality check if I went around saying they were going to be winning every tournament they entered!! :p Of course Vivi in doubles is a slightly stronger prospect, but you know what I mean! ;)

great smash
Aug 18th, 2003, 10:48 AM
They do have confidence in their favorites, just not a blind one...

rottweily
Aug 18th, 2003, 10:50 AM
If I was a Henin fan and I truly believed no one would beat Henin at a certain tournament, then I would say it.

Well I believe no one can beat Justine at the US Open.

Volcana
Aug 18th, 2003, 11:03 AM
I thought I would be right.........

Most tournaments are in countries with a very low percentage of Blacks. Tournament directors are not trying to get Venus and Serena into their tournaments because they expect a huge turnout of Black ticket buyers. Look at the stands in virtually any European, South or North American, Australian, or Kiwi tournament. 99% of the people paying money to see them are white.

I somewhat surprised anyone who watches tennis on television could draw a conclusion on the subject that mistaken.

doloresc
Aug 18th, 2003, 01:49 PM
i think other fans do but they just aren't as "forthcoming" as williams' fans. ;)

fifiricci
Aug 18th, 2003, 01:55 PM
Would I be wrong if is said the majority of Belgian fans are white or from white related backgrounds?

LOL!!!!

DA FOREHAND
Aug 18th, 2003, 01:59 PM
If the fans don't believe who will?

Kart
Aug 18th, 2003, 02:11 PM
Williams fans receive alot of backlash because we have so much confidence that V and S will win the tournaments they play in, and that they are better than anyone else they step on the court with. Of course Williams fans know that it's possible for Venus and Serena to lose, but they are NOT losers, and they have extreme ability and confidence in themselves so why shouldn't their fans be confident also?? Bottom line is that they don't lose often, so why would their fans doubt their ability to beat the competition at a tournament. They've done it consistently before and there is nothing to stop them from doing it again. Why should the confidence Williams fans have in V and S affect fans of other players?? It seems like the ones who get upset when WS fans expect them to win a tourney believe that the WS will win also and are troubled by the fact that other players don't win as often. If I was a Henin fan and I truly believed no one would beat Henin at a certain tournament, then I would say it. Just because someone thinks that a certain player is going to win a tourney doesn't mean the others are insignificant or don't have a chance.

Actually Williams sisters confidence doesn't affect everyone's confidence in their own players.

Some people just don't feel any need to keep reiterating it.

I believe in my favourite player :) but not everything is about her winning.

On a side note though, probably a contributory reason is the amount of gloating that goes on on this board. There's a real animosity that you encounter - as if putting up a good match and losing doesn't mean anything :rolleyes:.

Infiniti2001
Aug 18th, 2003, 02:14 PM
Would I be wrong if I said the majority of Williams fans are black or from black related backgrounds?

YES

fifiricci
Aug 18th, 2003, 02:16 PM
I am probably going to get clobbered for this, but I honestly think this argument is influenced by the W/S race (but not racism) and nationality (but not Anti Americanism).

The W/S are black and therefore they are going to be put forward as examples of what Black Americans from supposedly "tough" backgrounds can make today. Personally I think this argument is a bit dated, but there we go.

Secondly, we all know that Americans have a different approach to confidence and competition and the winning ethic. Much more emphasis is placed on winning at all costs (which is the Venus/Serena mentality) than taking part, enjoying yourself and winning as a by-product of that (ie the Kim approach).

Thanks for listening (and just for the record, I am European, white and female, whatever you want to make of that).

Cariaoke
Aug 18th, 2003, 02:21 PM
Why is it always a racial issue?

Anyway, I see a lot of other fans rooting vehemently for their favorites, especially when they face a Williams. It's hilarious to me.

I think it has a lot to do with the constant nickpicking of non-Williams fans of the Williams that gets a lot of Williams fans to cheer them on even harder. So, maybe, if non-fans would stfu, maybe things would quiet down. Who am I kidding? :tape:

Ryan
Aug 18th, 2003, 03:01 PM
Knizzle, in most cases I think the word you should have used instead of 'confidence' is 'arrogance'. SO many Williams fans aren't only confident in Serena/Venus, they're arrogant as fuck and never just say "I believe Serena can win", it's always bashing other players.


So, to answer your question: Fans other than the WS fans dont have "confidence" in our faves because we're not arrogant fuckheads.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 18th, 2003, 04:18 PM
You were doing alright until you spewed this bullshit!

"Secondly, we all know that Americans have a different approach to confidence and competition and the winning ethic. Much more emphasis is placed on winning at all costs (which is the Venus/Serena mentality) than taking part, enjoying yourself and winning as a by-product of that (ie the Kim approach)."

When have you ever seen Venus or Serena win at all cost? If anything they have proven all the naysayers wrong and have won many matches when thier chips were down, or the deck was stacked completely against them. Serena Indian Wells. Venus Wimbledon Semifinal 03 Venus Pilot Pen 01 beating justine/Jennifer and Lindsay in a 24hr span. with a cold. Like all who compete in sports they love to win and the compettition. I'd like you to give me examples of when either of them used gamesmanship on the court to win matches. That's justine's dept.

Diya
Aug 18th, 2003, 04:22 PM
OK , yelling "MY faves will BEAT the crap outta everyone they meet in the next tournament they'll play " in every other thread (whatever be the topic) is not exactly my idea of showing confidence in my favourite !:rolleyes:

Cybelle Darkholme
Aug 18th, 2003, 04:29 PM
Being "realistic" is just code for I don't want to be embarassed if my favorite loses or I don't want to have a life crisis if my favorite loses. Those people who are "realistic" are so tied up into their favorites wins and losses that they can't cheer enthusiastically and without restraint.

Sports are supposed to be fun and uninhibited not held back because you want to be "realistic". whatever. Unless you have money riding on the game then imo there is no need to be realistic. You can cheer and promote rita kuti kiss to win the us open and if it doesnt happen, so what? Has the earth suddenly stopped? Is someone dead? Cheer her and your favorites for all your worth because in the end for me its about the anticipation and the build up and the playing and the suspense than the end result.

TeeRexx
Aug 18th, 2003, 05:18 PM
ryan16 - Oh, but you are an arrogant fuckhead, kidd. :eek: :p

disposablehero
Aug 18th, 2003, 05:21 PM
ryan16 - Oh, but you are an arrogant fuckhead, kidd. :eek: :p

"Rubber And Glue". Your wit astounds me.

SJW
Aug 18th, 2003, 05:33 PM
my premier faves after the WS suck or are injured. thats why :p

Cariaoke
Aug 18th, 2003, 05:36 PM
what would us willies fans do without nonfans telling us how we should act? :tape: :tape:

vasco
Aug 18th, 2003, 05:44 PM
this is for everybody: you support and like your favorite player because of the person she is, her style of play, her kindness..NOT FOR HER RESULTS!! i really like cristina torrens and she hasn't made it past first round in quite a few tornaments and still i cheer for her and support her.

CamilleVidann
Aug 18th, 2003, 05:56 PM
This thread just shows how arrogance plays a part in buiding a fan base. I'm really ashamed of my "fellow" Willims fans for the way they act here. They are not real fans. They just take it way too far and they exploit the sistaz to get the opportunity to use their fuckin arrofance. They're pathetic imposters.. not the sistaz fans in the least.

Jasmin
Aug 18th, 2003, 06:10 PM
Well I've always been a Venus fan and she has a good chance at the U.S. Open. It's so not in the bag. I personally don't want to go on about it so not all Williams fans are arrogant. Win or lose I will always be a Venus fan. Win or lose I will be a Kim, Davenport, Monica or Chanda fan. Sure I will be sad for a minute but nothing will change.

Being realistic is a good thing. I have a problem with delusional people.

SJW
Aug 18th, 2003, 06:59 PM
This thread just shows how arrogance plays a part in buiding a fan base. I'm really ashamed of my "fellow" Willims fans for the way they act here. They are not real fans. They just take it way too far and they exploit the sistaz to get the opportunity to use their fuckin arrofance. They're pathetic imposters.. not the sistaz fans in the least.

pathetic imposters.......

pot->Kettle->black

TeeRexx
Aug 18th, 2003, 07:08 PM
LOL@Sweets :)

I forgive poor Camille. Too much time in Britian. :eek: :)

controlfreak
Aug 18th, 2003, 07:16 PM
For me, it's all about statistics. If I chose to support a player who had a 97% winning record, then I would be very confident. I also think I would be rather bored. Most of the players I like probably have winning percentages between about 33% and 67%. I know from experience that if I am very confident about these players' chances, I will usually end up disappointed. I don't like being disappointed, therefore I am slightly less confident about my players. :)

TeeRexx
Aug 18th, 2003, 07:23 PM
Freak - You can get confidence in their playing ability, effort, style of play or just their looks or nice azzes. :eek: :)