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View Full Version : Do you really want Kim to be no.1 yet?


bello
Aug 8th, 2003, 04:47 AM
To Kim fans and non- Kim fans..

would you really want to see Kim get no.1 place yet knowing quite well that Serena is the worlds best tennis player??

disposablehero
Aug 8th, 2003, 05:08 AM
The #1 ranking isn't about who is the world's best tennis player. It's about who is most likely to win a tournament. In the average week, it is more likely that Kim will win a tournament than Serena.

Now is a perfectly good time.

Tarsius
Aug 8th, 2003, 05:10 AM
Also, what people here WANT is irrelevant to how players are ranked.

caramel
Aug 8th, 2003, 05:11 AM
I´m not a fan of Kim but I still want her to be No. 1 because in my opinion it´s just about time for a new number 1! :o

bello
Aug 8th, 2003, 05:38 AM
Also, what people here WANT is irrelevant to how players are ranked.

True but i had just observed alot of pple excited over the prospect of Kim being no.1 and i was just thinking that if my fave was to be no.1 it wouldnt seem as sweet when another player is clearly the worlds best..as is usually assumed by the term "no.1"

irma
Aug 8th, 2003, 05:41 AM
I don't care. I want her to win a slam

Lisbeth
Aug 8th, 2003, 05:42 AM
Yes, because the alternatives are Kim playing less or losing and I don't want either of those things to occur. She's the best player who plays a minimum schedule and that's all "#1" really indicates. So she deserves it and I'm happy for her.

Of course, A USO title would be the icing on the cake ... Go Kim!

Venus Forever
Aug 8th, 2003, 05:59 AM
The #1 ranking isn't about who is the world's best tennis player. It's about who is most likely to win a tournament. In the average week, it is more likely that Kim will win a tournament than Serena.

Now is a perfectly good time.

In a average week??

Well, in an average year, Serena won 7 tournaments out of 12.

Kim won 8 out of 21.

Average wise, Serena should be the favorite.

*Note, I counted the average from the JPMorgan Chase Open last year, up until the Acura Classic this year.

disposablehero
Aug 8th, 2003, 07:17 AM
In a average week??

Well, in an average year, Serena won 7 tournaments out of 12.

Kim won 8 out of 21.

Average wise, Serena should be the favorite.

*Note, I counted the average from the JPMorgan Chase Open last year, up until the Acura Classic this year.

Did you say Serena won 7 tournaments and Kim won 8? I guess any given week it is more likely that Kim will win a tournament then. The rankings don't care when Serena wants to play, and they don't care when she is healthy. The rankings care who wins tournaments, and that is Kim.

Come-on-kim
Aug 8th, 2003, 07:18 AM
I would prefer for her to win a GS first and then being 1st! But I think that's an achievement so if she becomes 1st, she will be able to say to her children "I was once 1st in my sport"

Venus Forever
Aug 8th, 2003, 07:24 AM
Did you say Serena won 7 tournaments and Kim won 8? I guess any given week it is more likely that Kim will win a tournament then. The rankings don't care when Serena wants to play, and they don't care when she is healthy. The rankings care who wins tournaments, and that is Kim.

Hey, you brought up average.

In case you didn't read, or were too caught up in that Kim won more tournaments, I'll re-write it. Yes, Kim won more tournaments, actually, she only won one more tournament, but played an extra 9 tournaments to get that extra victory. Serena's winning percentage is 58%, while Kim's is only 38%, a 20% difference.

The average shows that Serena's winning percentage is a LOT better than Kim's.

I think the rankings should be about the average. How can someone who wins more than half of the total number of tournaments she play be second to that who barely wins a third.

Of course there have to be limitations, like, they must compete in a certain amount of tournaments, but, I think this system would eb the most fair.

disposablehero
Aug 8th, 2003, 07:33 AM
Venus Forever, that is the entire point. It's not about the average result every time a player enters. Any given week, it is more likely Kim will win an event than Serena. Because it is more likely Kim will actually be playing. Kim is a better player than Serena right now. Last time Serena was healthy enough to play, she was a better player than Kim. Next time she is healthy enough, she might again be a better player than Kim. But right now Serena can't physically cut it and Kim can. So if Serena misses a few events it will reflect on her point total that she wasn't able to win those events. Whether or not she tried is not the biggest issue.

oddkayla
Aug 8th, 2003, 08:54 AM
__________________________________________________ _____

Of course, A USO title would be the icing on the cake ... Go Kim!
__________________________________________________ _____
Originally Posted by Numbeone Kim

I hope that Kim does not share your sentiments, and sees a slam as the cake, rather than the icing!

XMan
Aug 8th, 2003, 08:59 AM
To Kim fans and non- Kim fans..

would you really want to see Kim get no.1 place yet knowing quite well that Serena is the worlds best tennis player??

"yet knowing quite well that Serena is the worlds best tennis player"
Do we all say that? Kim is a humble girl and I don't doubt that many of her fans (including me) are humble as well but there is a certain point when I get enough of it. I hate this "Serena is always the best" worshipping (actually, I hate everything that has to do with worshipping).
For me and many others, Kim IS the best player in the world. She will show it to us by becoming number one and (hopefully) winning the US-Open. For me, the biggest reason that keeps her from winning some important matches then it is just a mental problem and she will get over it. Do we want to see Kim at number one? OF COURSE!!!

Lien
Aug 8th, 2003, 09:02 AM
I don't care. I want her to win a slam

I agree, I want the same. A number (although it is number one and it is a great honor) isn't half as good as the excitement of winning a slam and the joy that you get from it.
Actually I don't want her to be number one yet, but it is like that now.

Dizzy Miss Lizzy
Aug 8th, 2003, 09:26 AM
To Kim fans and non- Kim fans..

would you really want to see Kim get no.1 place yet knowing quite well that Serena is the worlds best tennis player??

:yawn:

kim4eva
Aug 8th, 2003, 09:28 AM
I'd love Kim to be No.1 coz reporters keep on saying, "Kim Clijsters, the current World. No 1... blah blah blah"
It's just great no matter she wins a grand slam or not!!

And I could tell my mum I'm the World No.1, Kim's fan, and she'll be impressed...

inge
Aug 8th, 2003, 09:30 AM
yes, i think it would do her really good. Everybody is been talking about it for so long, even she feels the pressure (you can tell from her diary).

When she will finally have it, it will be another big thing in her carreer, on a point that a lot of people are questioning her killer - attitude, it can give her more confidence. :D

So that's why i would really love to see Kimmie no1 next week. I'm sure the other things will follow. :bounce:

PS. to show her big strength and consistency: she did a serie of tournaments in a row, where she didn't go out before the semi. I don't know exactly how many, but the reporter said that it was from since Seles in 1991 (12 years ago!!) that that happened. So don't underestimate Kim. :worship:

Jeff
Aug 8th, 2003, 09:30 AM
Well to me #1 means that if all the players on tour were to play a tournament, the #1 would be most likely to win. Well, I think Serena is the obvious #1 when using that definition.

Unfortunately WTA #1 rewards more on tournaments played, rather than just pure quality. Kim is a great player, great attitude...obviously not the clear #1, but I think as of now she would deserve it based on WTA standards.

When Serena is healthy again, she will reclaim the position anyway, so.

Chance
Aug 8th, 2003, 09:38 AM
"yet knowing quite well that Serena is the worlds best tennis player"
Do we all say that? Kim is a humble girl and I don't doubt that many of her fans (including me) are humble as well but there is a certain point when I get enough of it. I hate this "Serena is always the best" worshipping (actually, I hate everything that has to do with worshipping).
For me and many others, Kim IS the best player in the world. She will show it to us by becoming number one and (hopefully) winning the US-Open. For me, the biggest reason that keeps her from winning some important matches then it is just a mental problem and she will get over it. Do we want to see Kim at number one? OF COURSE!!!

to be the best you have to beat the rest.. so how is Kim the best player, when she hasn't defeated Serena or Venus this year and now is having problems with Justine. Considering she hasn't won a slam yet - indicates to me she isn't the best player.

I'm sick of some fans claiming the only reason Kim loses the tough matches is because she isn't mentally stong- GIVE CREDIT TO HER OPPONENTS!
Kim is going to be no.1 and there's nothing we can do about it. Kim has worked hard for it and has been rewarded, but you're kidding yourself if you think Kim is the best player. I'm not happy about the ranking system, but I'll get over it.

tennisjam
Aug 8th, 2003, 09:43 AM
:rolleyes:

fifiricci
Aug 8th, 2003, 09:44 AM
Well to me #1 means that if all the players on tour were to play a tournament, the #1 would be most likely to win. Well, I think Serena is the obvious #1 when using that definition.

Unfortunately WTA #1 rewards more on tournaments played, rather than just pure quality. Kim is a great player, great attitude...obviously not the clear #1, but I think as of now she would deserve it based on WTA standards.

When Serena is healthy again, she will reclaim the position anyway, so.

Jesus, dont be such an arse!! By applying your logic we would have to suspend the whole tour when the number 1 is unable to play. Do you want your obsession with Serena being "the best" to destroy the womens tennis game completely?!

Lets hope that the game is still bigger than the individual players within it please!

XMan
Aug 8th, 2003, 09:54 AM
to be the best you have to beat the rest.. so how is Kim the best player, when she hasn't defeated Serena or Venus this year and now is having problems with Justine. Considering she hasn't won a slam yet - indicates to me she isn't the best player.

I'm sick of some fans claiming the only reason Kim loses the tough matches because she isn't mentally stong- GIVE CREDIT TO HER OPPONENTS!
Kim is going to be no.1 and there's nothing we can do about it. Kim has worked hard for it and has been rewarded, but you're kidding yourself if you think Kim is the best player. I'm not happy about the ranking system, but I'll get over it.

The real problem is that we ALWAYS need to give credit to the opponents of Kim but that the opposite is NEVER the case because there is always a "reason" why Kim doesn't get the credit that she deserves. That's something what makes me sick.

The Crow
Aug 8th, 2003, 09:58 AM
Nicely put DH.

per4ever
Aug 8th, 2003, 10:05 AM
Yes, because the alternatives are Kim playing less or losing and I don't want either of those things to occur. She's the best player who plays a minimum schedule and that's all "#1" really indicates. So she deserves it and I'm happy for her.

Of course, A USO title would be the icing on the cake ... Go Kim!
Kim and 'minimum' schedule ... two words that don't belong together ;)

fleemke³
Aug 8th, 2003, 10:10 AM
Well Kim wins the most tournaments at the moment, she plays the most, so it's fair that she'll be number one I think but I'd rather see her winning a GS or beating Seran (or Venus) before getting there . . .

gentenaire
Aug 8th, 2003, 10:13 AM
Wow, what an unique thread, where did you find the inspiration to come up with this original discussion?

fnac
Aug 8th, 2003, 10:18 AM
fifiricci:

"....By applying your (their) logic we would have to suspend the whole tour when the number 1 is unable to play. Do you want your obsession with Serena being "the best" to destroy the womens tennis game completely?!

Lets hope that the game is still bigger than the individual players within it please!"


Logic stripped to its bare essence.

For an answer to the umpteenth attack on the integrity of the NEW NUMBER ONE player to be this should be made a sticky.

Sam L
Aug 8th, 2003, 10:31 AM
When Gwyneth Paltrow won the Oscar for Best Actress in 1998 for Shakespeare in Love, she thought that she was winning an Oscar too early. At the same time, many many people thought Cate Blanchett should've won the Oscar instead.

Think of Kim as Gwyneth and Serena as Cate, here. Maybe we don't feel she should get it, and maybe she herself feels she shouldn't get it, but that isn't going to stop history.

fifiricci
Aug 8th, 2003, 10:36 AM
fifiricci:

"....By applying your (their) logic we would have to suspend the whole tour when the number 1 is unable to play. Do you want your obsession with Serena being "the best" to destroy the womens tennis game completely?!

Lets hope that the game is still bigger than the individual players within it please!"


Logic stripped to its bare essence.

For an answer to the umpteenth attack on the integrity of the NEW NUMBER ONE player to be this should be made a sticky.

Sorry, what is your point, I dont understand (but it is Friday).

nicky
Aug 8th, 2003, 12:21 PM
I think he/she was saying you were spot on with your remark ;) :).

Steffica Greles
Aug 8th, 2003, 12:28 PM
DisposableHero is right to the point that you can't keep on changing the ranking system to suit one player. A ranking system has to be fair to everybody, and at the end of the day grandslam matches are the same as any other. Too much emphasis on a slam is unfair on the players who slog week after week on the tour.

So from that point of view, Kim will deservedly be no.1, in the same way as Hingis was.

But I dread the moments when this happens. I want the player who is obviously the best to be no.1, not a player who doesn't even hold a slam and has hardly dominated the tour outside of the slams.

Besides that, I'm far from impressed with her style of play. She's a great athlete (although I prefer Capriati's coverage), but to me she's not a great deal from where Hingis was in terms of potency. For all the extra power she has, she has less of Hingis' finese. So it evens out. She's not a champion, in my opinion.

fifiricci
Aug 8th, 2003, 12:33 PM
I think he/she was saying you were spot on with your remark ;) :).

Oh, good!! Thnx :)

Volcana
Aug 8th, 2003, 12:37 PM
To Kim fans and non- Kim fans..

would you really want to see Kim get no.1 place yet knowing quite well that Serena is the worlds best tennis player??

Why wouldn't we? Name one woman who made it to #1 who didn't win multiple GS titles? Name a player who being #1 has ever hurt? (The importance she placed on RETAINING the #1 ranking MIGHT have hurt Hingis. Making it to #1 didn't.) And as you said yourself, we all know who the best player inthe world is, anyway. And considering that best player is on the shelf right now, why shouldn't somebody else get the benefit of being #1?

starr
Aug 8th, 2003, 12:40 PM
Hey, you brought up average.

In case you didn't read, or were too caught up in that Kim won more tournaments, I'll re-write it. Yes, Kim won more tournaments, actually, she only won one more tournament, but played an extra 9 tournaments to get that extra victory. Serena's winning percentage is 58%, while Kim's is only 38%, a 20% difference.

The average shows that Serena's winning percentage is a LOT better than Kim's.

I think the rankings should be about the average. How can someone who wins more than half of the total number of tournaments she play be second to that who barely wins a third.

Of course there have to be limitations, like, they must compete in a certain amount of tournaments, but, I think this system would eb the most fair.

Of course, you must know that the WTA at one time did use an average to calculate rankings. That system also had problems and generated many complaints and ultimately was thought to be harmful to the tour as a whole. That is when it was changed basically to the system we have today.

disposablehero
Aug 8th, 2003, 01:20 PM
And considering that best player is on the shelf right now, why shouldn't somebody else get the benefit of being #1?

There IS a historical precedent.

Jeff
Aug 9th, 2003, 01:49 AM
Jesus, dont be such an arse!! By applying your logic we would have to suspend the whole tour when the number 1 is unable to play. Do you want your obsession with Serena being "the best" to destroy the womens tennis game completely?!

Lets hope that the game is still bigger than the individual players within it please!

Umm...your reply has nothing to do with my post :rolleyes:

Dawn Marie
Aug 9th, 2003, 03:21 AM
"It's about who is most likely to win a tournament. In the average week, it is more likely that Kim will win a tournament than Serena".

Disposable those quotes are a bunch of bull.

You and I both know that the #1 rank is largely based on QUANITY more so than QUALITY. Also Kim has not shown that in an average week she will win a tournament. In an average week it is more than likely that if Serena, Justine or Venus were entered that Kim would LOSE the title. You're point only proves that Kim PLAYS MORE in an average week. Which brings my point right back up. The WTA tour is about Quanity more so than Quality.

Now if Kim got injured next year and hmm let's say Daniela won alot of titles by playing alot and doing well but yet still could not beat the BEST top 4 players, Serena,Venus, and Kim and Justine but yet became #1 based on winning alot and not much to defend why it would be hollow.

Although Kim deserves to become the true #1.

The # sign as seen right here is TRUE and REAL. See it again. ###### it is real.

The number one is true and real. See it here. 111111111 so being as these two things are real and are what they are, then yes Kim deserves the #1.

Ballbuster
Aug 9th, 2003, 03:43 AM
Let her have it already. She really did earn it. But she/we and everybody else knows better. This argument is truly old. No matter how you feel about it

Kim EARNED it............and she didn't CHEAT.

ans
Aug 9th, 2003, 08:06 PM
When Serena is healthy again, she will reclaim the position anyway, so.

wow, how do you know? I looked in my crystal ball and it said "I don't know, wait to make predictions until we're that far"