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alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 06:46 PM
I don't know about anyone else here, but when Steffi Graf retired from tennis, I felt we lost more than just a great champion, but the door to a tennis era was closed. Gone are the champions who play week in and week out and give every match their very best effort- always 100%. How long will we have to wait to see another champion like her?

DA FOREHAND
Aug 7th, 2003, 06:51 PM
Kim Cljisters?
Martina Hingis?

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 06:53 PM
to set something straight steffi never played week in and week out especially not the last 4 years before;)

I felt an era ended when nav and sabatini retired too in fact more then when steffi retired. first when steffi retired I was prepared and with steffi it was just different since I was a fan I was just in a mellowdramatic mood to see the end of a whole era just the end of the steffi era;)

DA FOREHAND
Aug 7th, 2003, 06:55 PM
I like the fact that she ended it on top, and didn't fade into the nether regions of the rankings. #3 Good stuff, for a womon who the game passed by...LOL

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 06:57 PM
to set something straight steffi never played week in and week out especially not the last 4 years before;)

I felt an era ended when nav and sabatini retired too in fact more then when steffi retired. first when steffi retired I was prepared and with steffi it was just different since I was a fan I was just in a melodramatic mood to see the end of a whole era just the end of the steffi era;)

Navratilova, yes, but Sabatini, the end of an era? What era was that? The era of a top-3 player who should have been #1 but couldn't seem to learn how to serve more than 60mph and stop hitting all her excessive topspin shots off her back foot? Don't get me wrong- I loved watching Gabby- especially fond memories of being right next to her at the practice courts at the U.S. Open. Her practices were where she left her best tennis- unfortunately, she almost never played that way in a real match. :confused:

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 06:58 PM
I am glad she didn't retire in summer 98 either. I wished it that time. I was thinking so sad. she is such a shadow of her former self, thank goodness she is such a fighter and didn't give up even after another surgery in the fall!

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:00 PM
Navratilova, yes, but Sabatini, the end of an era? What era was that? The era of a top-3 player who should have been #1 but couldn't seem to learn how to serve more than 60mph and stop hitting all her excessive topspin shots off her back foot? Don't get me wrong- I loved watching Gabby- especially fond memories of being right next to her at the practice courts at the U.S. Open. Her practices were where she left her best tennis- unfortunately, she almost never played that way in a real match. :confused:

well she played steffi much and these matches just had something special imho and steffi was older so I felt her time would come soon too.
that why I felt that.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:01 PM
Too bad Hingis didn't take a page out of her book.

hingis-seles
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:04 PM
I don't know about anyone else here, but when Steffi Graf retired from tennis, I felt we lost more than just a great champion, but the door to a tennis era was closed. Gone are the champions who play week in and week out and give every match their very best effort- always 100%. How long will we have to wait to see another champion like her?

I felt the same way when Hingis said a return to tennis "is inconceivable".

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:07 PM
but then I still think martina will return next year

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:07 PM
Too bad Hingis didn't take a page out of her book.

Oh- now there was a classic match-up, and I know, we've hammered that subject ad nauseum on this board, but I used to LOVE watching Steffi run Hingis ragged! :bounce:

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:11 PM
the pic of steffi in tokio 91 against martina is the best. she looks like she is saying I will get you next time wich she did of course ;)

http://www.geocities.com/steffipics/PAN.html

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:11 PM
I mean tokio 99 of course

DA FOREHAND
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:11 PM
LOL ME TOO

96 Chase, 96 Us Open semi, 99 French

I always start the 96 Us Open match w/Steffi down 3-5, it's like she switched gears.."OK now I'm gonna run her till her legs give in...and then just before it's all over Mary Carillo chimes in..."Hingis needs a nap"

hingis-seles
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:12 PM
Irma, I thought it was Tokyo 1999. :p

hingis-seles
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:13 PM
I thought Martina juggling balls during the changeover was so cool. She always had such a great personality, what an entertainer she was!

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:13 PM
the pic of steffi in tokio 91 against martina is the best. she looks like she is saying I will get you next time wich she did of course ;)

http://www.geocities.com/steffipics/PAN.html

Great pic- THAT is the kind of determination I miss- and I also miss the way she used to take a couple of steps into the court just before she served, as if to say "here it comes!"

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:13 PM
yeah in 91 she misbehaved against sabatini don't have a pic of that;)

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:20 PM
yeah in 91 she misbehaved against sabatini don't have a pic of that;)

and then there was that horrible line call that gave Sabatini the 1990 U.S. Open title: Gabby hit a big looping topspin attempted passing shot down the line, and Graf let it go because it was out- but there was no call!!! Had the linesman called that ball out like he should have, I think we'd be talking about a Graf win that year. :(

DA FOREHAND
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:23 PM
Great pic- THAT is the kind of determination I miss- and I also miss the way she used to take a couple of steps into the court just before she served, as if to say "here it comes!"


LOL I love that too, but I think she did that to quiet the crowds.
Also loved the way she wiped the sweat w/one finger. She had the best stamina. She'd engage in a 30 stroke rally and be rdy for the next point as if she served an ace, loved the way she'd be bouncing the ball looking up court to see if her opponent had recovered yet.

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:23 PM
it was matchpoint and knowing how nervous steffi was and had blewed her sixth setpoint in two slamfinals I doubt she had won anyway

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:25 PM
LOL I love that too, but I think she did that to quiet the crowds.
Also loved the way she wiped the sweat w/one finger. She had the best stamina. She'd engage in a 30 stroke rally and be rdy for the next point as if she served an ace, loved the way she'd be bouncing the ball looking up court to see if her opponent had recovered yet.

And then she would get SOOOO annoyed when players like Sabatini and Novotna stalled and took long walks in an attempt to stop the juggernaught demolition Graf was handing them! :fiery:

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:26 PM
I think steffi only runned out of gas twice in the olympic final 92(that's the only time I heard steffi say that she was tired) and maybe in paris 86 since she was sick and then missed wimbledon because she didn't wanted to cancel the doubles and they reached the final (but I admit I have that from a book)

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:27 PM
it was matchpoint and knowing how nervous steffi was and had blewed her sixth setpoint in two slamfinals I doubt she had won anyway

Oh, I disagree- they had a long history of matches up to that point where Sabatini usually won the first set, but couldn't close Steffi out in 2 sets, and almost always ran out of gas- look at the 1988 U.S. Open final result- the two matches are pretty similar, actually. My favorite match between them in 1990 was the Zurich Final a few months after the U.S. Open- Graf destroyed Sabatini that day. :worship:

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:29 PM
but steffi also blewed 4 setpoints to monica and then wimbledon and don't forget australia afterwards

steffi was not good in big matches that time

DA FOREHAND
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:31 PM
irma, I know you love Steffi, but all your post are so clinical (facts and figures) you don't share the moments in her career that make you smile.

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:31 PM
I mean I wished she had won that match. I was so sad for days afterwards

and it's true that I rationalized it all. that has to do with my personal background of that whole period.

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:33 PM
but steffi also blewed 4 setpoints to monica and then wimbledon and don't forget australia afterwards

steffi was not good in big matches that time

the 1991 Australian Open QF between Graf and Novotna was one of the best tennis matches I've ever seen. I still think Novotna should have won that title- she had her chances against Seles, and choked. Against Graf, she didn't choke- a brilliant display of all-court tennis that even Peter Graf had to applaud (which didn't happen much).

TonyP
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:38 PM
I'm not sure what this thread means. What champions didn't give their all in matches? And I don't remember Graf playing week in and week out either.

Sorry,I think Graf was a great player, but she was also perhaps the most colorless number one in tennis history, a cold, remote, and often, highly arrogant person who showed up, played her matches,picked up her paycheck and went home.

Her robot like behavior on court was simply never very exciting. I pulled for Sabatini and Sanchez-Vacario through the Graf era because they were far more colorful characters.

jenglisbe
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:40 PM
A few questions...
1. How close was Stefii to being #1 when she retired? She had won the French Open and made the Wimbledon finals. Had she done anything else that year?
2. How sudden was it? I remember she had to retire in her last match (or something)...and then I heard she had retired. Was it as sudden as I remember it?

DA FOREHAND
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:41 PM
And you ended up disappointed about two/three times as often as Graf fans.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:42 PM
Very sudden she retired ranked number 3

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:42 PM
steffi was not colorless at all. she was great and real. people judge her from pc wich she hated so of course she didn't show her real steffi there and she didn't want to be a clown. she gave the best in dept interviews I read. the only one who came close was mary joe who had that kind of melancholisch spirit too :lol:

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:45 PM
steffi retirement wasn't sudden. she announced it in berlin sort off and then she said that she regretted her retirement comments but she only meant that she said it not the decision. I even let an important meeting wait till steffi retired so sure I was it would last a couple of weeks before the end.

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:48 PM
and then 5 minutes before the announcement my sister called. I never got rid of her that quick. I explained it afterwards and she understood;)

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:51 PM
I'm not sure what this thread means. What champions didn't give their all in matches? And I don't remember Graf playing week in and week out either.

Sorry,I think Graf was a great player, but she was also perhaps the most colorless number one in tennis history, a cold, remote, and often, highly arrogant person who showed up, played her matches,picked up her paycheck and went home.

Her robot like behavior on court was simply never very exciting. I pulled for Sabatini and Sanchez-Vacario through the Graf era because they were far more colorful characters.

She did seem robot-like to alot of people, however, I submit that these are the same people who fail to realize she, like Ivan Lendl, never thought of herself as an entertainer, but a tennis player and professional athlete. Sure, it's nice to blow kisses and throw towels like her husband always does, but I thought Steffi Graf had the personality of a tigress- you always knew you were going to witness a fight when she stepped onto the court. She did play week in and week out up until the last 2 years, and rarely took extended breaks from the game. "She's the most intense champion I have ever seen" was a terrific comment Chris Evert gave her a few years back...

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 07:53 PM
WaS: Is it difficult for you to show your emotions?

Graf: Who among us shows emotions on the court? Martina Navratilova,
maybe Arantxa Sanchez. But who else? I don't understand why I'm always
made out to be cold and heartless. I only want to play tennis - but in
my own way and not the way that others want to see me.

and this quote says it all and she (steffi) was totally right :o

bandabou
Aug 7th, 2003, 08:00 PM
WaS: Is it difficult for you to show your emotions?

Graf: Who among us shows emotions on the court? Martina Navratilova,
maybe Arantxa Sanchez. But who else? I don't understand why I'm always
made out to be cold and heartless. I only want to play tennis - but in
my own way and not the way that others want to see me.

and this quote says it all and she (steffi) was totally right :o

Uhum, why is it such a big deal anyway to be " emotional"? The goal has to be winning matches. If one likes to screams and throw rackets?! Fine, but it doesn´t have to be a must thing to do!

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 08:03 PM
I like Pete Sampras name for Steffi Graf: THE DOMINATOR

DA FOREHAND
Aug 7th, 2003, 08:06 PM
"She's the most intense champion I have ever seen" was a terrific comment Chris Evert gave her a few years back...

99 French Open...she went on to say..."she was smiling in that Seles match though"

Steffi was/is a perfectionist, I've seen her hit winners and look disappointed because it didn't go exactly where she wanted. I love that, I don't need her cursing linesman, sobbing on her moms shoulder, shouting allez when her opponents miss a shot, or even screaming come on at the top of her lungs. I love/loved watching her bounce around the court, leap in the air and hit that world famous forehand, celebrate when the match is over. I guess that's one of the reasons Venus is now my favorite player.

TonyP
Aug 7th, 2003, 08:07 PM
But tennis players ARE entertainers, competing against other forms of entertainment for the attention of fans, who make it all possible.

Since tennis on TV is mostly singles tennis, tennis players get more close ups than most actresses do. And most of them still stand around blank faced, staring at the strings of their rackets like zombies.

A lot of the blame for what happens in tennis goes to the Brits, who of course had Wimbledon as the oldest tournament, but also the stuffiest.

I think its great that there is NOT a lot of trash talking or hystrionics in tennis in general,but I also think upper class Brits are probably the most emotionally constipated people in the world and their efforts to keep all emotion out of tennis have not served the sport well.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 7th, 2003, 08:09 PM
The artistry of Steffi's game is entertainment enough for me.

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 08:16 PM
But tennis players ARE entertainers, competing against other forms of entertainment for the attention of fans, who make it all possible.

Since tennis on TV is mostly singles tennis, tennis players get more close ups than most actresses do. And most of them still stand around blank faced, staring at the strings of their rackets like zombies.

A lot of the blame for what happens in tennis goes to the Brits, who of course had Wimbledon as the oldest tournament, but also the stuffiest.

I think its great that there is NOT a lot of trash talking or hystrionics in tennis in general,but I also think upper class Brits are probably the most emotionally constipated people in the world and their efforts to keep all emotion out of tennis have not served the sport well.

I disagree that tennis players have to be entertainers. Graf, Lendl, Edberg, Borg, Rafter, Laver, Rosewall, the list goes on and on- all great champions who were NOT entertainers- just professional athletes and world class competitors. The Brits love emotion on court, as long as it doesn't distract one's eye from the tennis. This is an important concept. One of my favorite quotes is "When all are dressed in whites, the eye is on the play". It speaks volumes about the traditions in tennis which are good for the game. I don't care about Steffi Graf's personal life- it's her life. I did care very much about her tennis game and never missed a chance to see her at work. I didn't pay for my ticket expecting to be entertained- I paid for an education, and usually got it. Steffi Graf is the only player I ever approached at a tennis match for her autograph.

bandabou
Aug 7th, 2003, 08:17 PM
"She's the most intense champion I have ever seen" was a terrific comment Chris Evert gave her a few years back...

99 French Open...she went on to say..."she was smiling in that Seles match though"

Steffi was/is a perfectionist, I've seen her hit winners and look disappointed because it didn't go exactly where she wanted. I love that, I don't need her cursing linesman, sobbing on her moms shoulder, shouting allez when her opponents miss a shot, or even screaming come on at the top of her lungs. I love/loved watching her bounce around the court, leap in the air and hit that world famous forehand, celebrate when the match is over. I guess that's one of the reasons Venus is now my favorite player.

As long as you don´t hate Serena´s come ons. I really like to see her like that. It means that she ain´t gonna lose in any way!! :D

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 08:23 PM
yeah remember the second set of wimbledon 95 against mary joe?

amazing stuf :worship:

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 08:30 PM
they played Ich mag steffi before that match.

ich mag steffi, ich mag steffi. tennis from anderen stern. und wann immer sie die forehand slagt or long line or cross. das ist schoner as musik. Ich hab' unseren steffi lieb

:)

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 08:33 PM
they played Ich mag steffi before that match.

ich mag steffi, ich mag steffi. tennis from anderen stern. und wann immer sie die forehand slagt or long line or cross. das ist schoner as musik. Ich hab' unseren steffi lieb

:)

Okay- translation bitte?

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 08:35 PM
I like steffi, I like steffi, tennis from a another planet. everytime when she hit a forehand longline or cross, that's more beautiful then music. I love our steffi.

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 08:36 PM
the german version was on the music of how deep is your love from the bee gees

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 08:41 PM
the german version was on the music of how deep is your love from the bee gees

My favorite telecast music was the Depeche Mode song that ABC played during the lead-up bios to the Graf-Seles Wimbledon Final in 1992 (Policy of Truth)...

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 08:45 PM
they played a song after the wimbledon final 92 but I think that was phil collins. it was on german tv with steffi and the scale. it made me cry so hard (out of happiness of course :lol: )

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 08:59 PM
I need so set something straight. people worried about my reppoints but it's disabled so the black thing doesn't mean my points are in negative;)

I know I should not care, that's why I disabled it in the first place but I read the comments anyway;)
even when I have problems to give points myself. that's a personal thing. I am weird;)

jenglisbe
Aug 7th, 2003, 09:08 PM
Tony - but tennis players (most of them, anyway) get into the sport because they love to play and want to win. When you are playing a friend, playing on a high school team, etc. it isn't about entertaining the people watching (hell, usually no one is watching). It's only when someone becomes a pro and plays an event like the U.S. Open that the entertainment aspect even begins to enter the discussion.

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 09:15 PM
yeah and man can wonder if steffi had become a pro if she had known all that beforehand

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 09:19 PM
Anybody remember a dialogue from years ago (maybe 10 or 12 years now) where a commentator was telling a story about Peter Graf's pride in his daughter, and Peter allegedly said he had tested Steffi on the track, and wouldn't say what her time was, but that it was good enough to qualify for the German Olympic team?

Grafan
Aug 7th, 2003, 10:00 PM
I don't know about anyone else here, but when Steffi Graf retired from tennis, I felt we lost more than just a great champion, but the door to a tennis era was closed. Gone are the champions who play week in and week out and give every match their very best effort- always 100%. How long will we have to wait to see another champion like her?
you just wont see someone like her never again, graf is unique

darren cahill
Aug 7th, 2003, 10:05 PM
The artistry of Steffi's game is entertainment enough for me.

:worship: :worship: :bowdown:

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 10:06 PM
yeah and man can wonder if steffi had become a pro if she had known all that beforehand

I don't think Peter would have given her the option. He was determined to get out of the used car sales business. :lol:

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 10:07 PM
steffi made third time and was invited by the german olympic team but she stayed with tennis;)

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 10:07 PM
:worship: :worship: :bowdown:

Nice location there, Darren. :drool:

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 10:11 PM
I don't think Peter would have given her the option. He was determined to get out of the used car sales business. :lol:

lol it's kind of sad to push a little girl in tennis with lolly pops and ice even steffi probably had a great time and wanted to play really bad

Dava
Aug 7th, 2003, 10:12 PM
I MISS STEFFI! :sad:

darren cahill
Aug 7th, 2003, 10:14 PM
Nice location there, Darren. :drool:

thanks! one can always wish cant they? ;)

one comment from me on the 'emotional players' being more exciting and all that jazz...for me, i never took to the emotional players (navratilova, mcenroe, connors) i always liked the ones who never gave you much like Steffi, Evert so forth....to me, they were always more exciting cause i always wondered "what is she thinking, is she nervous, i wonder whats going through her head" stuff like that....dont get me wrong, a good nervous breakdown like Navratilova had from time to time was always good theater but for me i always preferred the opposite...but to each their own...thats what its all about

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 10:15 PM
I MISS STEFFI! :sad:

I DO TOO!!! Now if I could only get my hands on a tape of that Graf/Hingis QF from Philadelphia from 1998 :help:

irma
Aug 7th, 2003, 10:18 PM
well I always was on the brink of a nervous breakdown when steffi played so I loved it when she was quiet. at wimbledon 91 she was really living with her hands and screaming and I got extreme nervous wich says a lot when you saw me normally;)

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 10:18 PM
thanks! one can always wish cant they? ;)

one comment from me on the 'emotional players' being more exciting and all that jazz...for me, i never took to the emotional players (navratilova, mcenroe, connors) i always liked the ones who never gave you much like Steffi, Evert so forth....to me, they were always more exciting cause i always wondered "what is she thinking, is she nervous, i wonder whats going through her head" stuff like that....dont get me wrong, a good nervous breakdown like Navratilova had from time to time was always good theater but for me i always preferred the opposite...but to each their own...thats what its all about

I agree now, but interestingly enough, I have evolved to this state. When I was a kid, I was Billie Jean King's biggest fan, and used to root for her even when she was past her prime and playing Chris Evert. The turning point came with Bjorn Borg for me. I thought he was the greatest, and always rooted for him when he played against Connors and McEnroe. Now that I'm an adult, the tennis is the thing, and I have come to appreciate John McEnroe's tennis as the brilliance it was and is. I still don't much like Jimmy Connors.

darren cahill
Aug 7th, 2003, 10:50 PM
I DO TOO!!! Now if I could only get my hands on a tape of that Graf/Hingis QF from Philadelphia from 1998 :help:


ME TOO! if you ever get a copy PLEASE let me know and i'll do the same...all i have is the match point i taped off ESPN Sportscenter...i did see the final live though (in person) i've been to that event quite a few times! the atmospehere was electric...that was an exciting time cause a lot fans knew Graf was trying really hard to qualify for the Chase Champs and she needed some great results in that event to get herself into the Chase field and boy did she ever do it!

I like how you described how you eloved to different styles of play....myself...well i've always liked one style...the Grafs, Everts, Austins, Lendls, Sampras, Rafter....dont get me wrong, i understand the allure of McEnroe, Connors, and the ones today who are brash and stuff like Safin, and Hingis and whatever but i liked to ones who didnt give much away vs. the ones who wore everything on their sleeve...i liked the mystery better

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 10:59 PM
ME TOO! if you ever get a copy PLEASE let me know and i'll do the same...all i have is the match point i taped off ESPN Sportscenter...i did see the final live though (in person) i've been to that event quite a few times! the atmospehere was electric...that was an exciting time cause a lot fans knew Graf was trying really hard to qualify for the Chase Champs and she needed some great results in that event to get herself into the Chase field and boy did she ever do it!

I like how you described how you eloved to different styles of play....myself...well i've always liked one style...the Grafs, Everts, Austins, Lendls, Sampras, Rafter....dont get me wrong, i understand the allure of McEnroe, Connors, and the ones today who are brash and stuff like Safin, and Hingis and whatever but i liked to ones who didnt give much away vs. the ones who wore everything on their sleeve...i liked the mystery better

It's just not the same now- I live 50 miles from Philadelphia, and remember going down to the old Civic Center and seeing Graf and Sanchez-Vicario, and Seles play Capriati, and then when it moved to the new Civic Center, Capriati and Sabatini, and then finally when it ended up in Villanova, I was a USTA volunteer so I got to go down 3 straight days- the Graf-Likhovtseva 2nd round, the Graf-Hingis QF, and the Graf-Tauziat SF (and Davenport-Seles blowoutSF). I saw some pretty good doubles over the years too. I remember Jana Novotna and Helena Sukova playing one year, and I yelled out "GO MARTINA!" and the crowd roared, and Jana turned around and looked in my direction, and said "SHE IS NOT HERE TODAY!"!!! :lol:

Philbo
Aug 7th, 2003, 11:41 PM
I dont miss Steffi much at all, Im with Tony - she was boring robot who never displayed any emotion, unless it was a hissyfit after a loss (a la the non existent handshake after Navratilova had beaten her in the semis of the US Open), plus she was arrogant imo to the point of being nasty - when she became # 1 in 87 Martina gave her a bracelet or some piece of jewellery as a congratulatory gift, Steffi responded by saying that Martina probably wouldnt be able to handle being # 2 and that 'she should probably just retire" - Luckily Martina didnt take that advice and was still beating Graf at 37!

So I was glad to see the back side of the most fortuidous player in history.

I warmed to her a little over the years to the point of supporitng her in the 99 French Final, which was strange cuz Id never supported her in any match, but the subsequent behaviour by her fans over the past 4 years or so have turned me off her again - Steffi's die hard fans are the biggest bunch of in-denial, insecure wacko's around who spend all their time trying to pretend that the stabbing didnt greatly exxagerate her career record...

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 11:51 PM
I dont miss Steffi much at all, Im with Tony - she was boring robot who never displayed any emotion, unless it was a hissyfit after a loss (a la the non existent handshake after Navratilova had beaten her in the semis of the US Open), plus she was arrogant imo to the point of being nasty - when she became # 1 in 87 Martina gave her a bracelet or some piece of jewellery as a congratulatory gift, Steffi responded by saying that Martina probably wouldnt be able to handle being # 2 and that 'she should probably just retire" - Luckily Martina didnt take that advice and was still beating Graf at 37!

So I was glad to see the back side of the most fortuidous player in history.

I warmed to her a little over the years to the point of supporitng her in the 99 French Final, which was strange cuz Id never supported her in any match, but the subsequent behaviour by her fans over the past 4 years or so have turned me off her again - Steffi's die hard fans are the biggest bunch of in-denial, insecure wacko's around who spend all their time trying to pretend that the stabbing didnt greatly exxagerate her career record...

1994-01-31 Tokyo Indoor Carpet F Graf d. Navratilova 6-2 6-4

and it was only going to get worse for the old broad... oh, and I never had the chance to thank you for the private e-mail introduction- it was one of the most pleasant things I did after I returned from vacation, reading your e-mail. Hopefully our conversations can rise above the personal and remain in tennis. I look forward to many great chats with you down the road.

Best Regards,

alfajeffster

alfajeffster
Aug 7th, 2003, 11:52 PM
Oh, one more thing: fortuitous

Philbo
Aug 7th, 2003, 11:58 PM
1993 Tokyo, Japan SF W 4-6 6-3 6-3

Only gonna get worse?? What do you expect when your almsot 40? The fact she beat her the year before is shameful enough for Graf lol!

I only sent you the PM when you had avoided admitting you were completely wrong and jarred iny our idiotic thread about Nav avoiding Graf - your thread was proven to be bullshit and instead of admitting it you chose to just avoid going back there.

If thats your idea of a great chat, I also look fwd to many more.

raquel
Aug 8th, 2003, 12:02 AM
I was going to say the same thing as Czechfan. "Only going to get worse for the old broad"? Martina was pushing 38, what do you expect?

And about the lack of character Steffi had, well she let her tennis do the talking and I always recognised she was a great champion even though she dished out a few GS final losses to ASV :mad: :p

Kart
Aug 8th, 2003, 01:23 AM
Navratilova, yes, but Sabatini, the end of an era? What era was that? The era of a top-3 player who should have been #1 but couldn't seem to learn how to serve more than 60mph and stop hitting all her excessive topspin shots off her back foot?

How about the era of a player who had an exciting game that took her to the no.3 ranking, over six hundred career wins, multiple big titles - including a grand slam and two masters titles, a 12 year career that saw her in the top ten for ten years, lots of exciting matches against top players, a game that displayed elegant topspin strokes from the baseline as well as a competent net game and a legion of adoring fans ?

There is no 'should have been no.1.' Either you are or you aren't. Big deal - 99% of all tennis players will never have the career or fame that she has.

Or are you only interested in the remaining 1% ?

Kart
Aug 8th, 2003, 01:28 AM
and then there was that horrible line call that gave Sabatini the 1990 U.S. Open title: Gabby hit a big looping topspin attempted passing shot down the line, and Graf let it go because it was out- but there was no call!!! Had the linesman called that ball out like he should have, I think we'd be talking about a Graf win that year. :(

Like we'd be talking about a Sabatini win at Wimbledon the following year if she'd made that volley like she should have ?

Or maybe like a Hingis win at the French open 1999 ?

Vegetable
Aug 8th, 2003, 01:50 AM
Steffi was plenty entertaining. I remember many of her matches in detail :hearts:

The 1991 and 1992 Wimbledon finals (great for different reasons) for example :)

irma
Aug 8th, 2003, 03:10 AM
the thing is a lot of people who bash steffi for being cold are supporting one of the most cold players on court there ever was. more cold then steffi ever could imagine.

yeah people say her career was partly stolen, true but that doesn't change the above but then it was suddenly called focus lmao :lol:

it's a fact but only steffi got bashed for it(already before 93). I have my opinions why but oke that's life.

and what has tokio 93 to do with it? as far I know nav also beat the player above a few weeks later so that just said what a great player nav was, but then it's more a shame for steffi then it was an achievement for nav right?

weird :o

oddkayla
Aug 8th, 2003, 07:52 AM
I too like player like Steffi who never gave anything away. I dont like overly emotional players, that's why I like Venus. You will see a fist pump, but generally she is contained. Her face does not say much. The mistery does it for me

wave
Aug 8th, 2003, 09:37 AM
Yes, Steffi was a great champion, with incredible success on court. Her fighting spirit was also famous. Her tennis was beautiful in a way (besides her a bit boring backhand).
But she was never a great character, at least not to me. She simply couldn't lose. There were handshakes after wins over Gaby, Martina N., Arantxa and Monica were the loser looked very nice and generous. You have never ever seen that from Steffi. She didn't give much credit to the oponent in the interviews after a loss either. As for showing emotions on court, she played tennis, she never wanted to become an actress, did she?
When I read the many topics on her greatness, it seems that she becomes "greater" every year. But maybe that's how it is with champions. :angel:

tennisjam
Aug 8th, 2003, 10:02 AM
she was unique, as any big champion but you die-hard fans can't even be partly objective I guess...

Steffi was a great champion, great competitor...

she was a bad loser (and a "lucky loser" too with Monica's stabbing... )

she had her introvert character I didn't like, but I guess it's a matter of taste...

Still, the fact is she is overrated:

Navratilova accomplished a lot more in the game...and still does...
Monica was greater competitor...
Hingis was greater tennis artist...
...

irma
Aug 8th, 2003, 10:18 AM
steffi was a competitor. she was not supposed to like losing :o

that has nothing to do with being objective. it's my opinion;)

irma
Aug 8th, 2003, 10:21 AM
and being introvert is not a crime anyway

wave
Aug 8th, 2003, 10:30 AM
Hi Irma: That's what I wrote, too. Being introvert is o.k. Tennis needs different attitudes. So no problem! :angel:

As for having problems to lose: I don't agree. You will be a bigger champ if you are generous in defeat, too. So in my mind that was missing with Steffi. And that's part of her being arrogant, too. But I think being arrogant is understandable when you are that good. We all have bad sides in our character, why should a tennis professional be different. ;)

irma
Aug 8th, 2003, 10:38 AM
hi wave<P>it had nothing to do with arrogance imho. steffi had very high expectations about herself. and when she felt she did not hold them(wich was about 99% of the times) she was dissapointed sometimes a bit extreme maybe, but don't forget steffi was often the same when she won.

in the tennisrevue of 91 after the wimbledon final they wrote this is the first time when the winner is complaining how bad the level was, while the loser said it was great :lol:

I don't think it such a bad thing it's not that she insulted or hit the opponents afterwards;)

bandabou
Aug 8th, 2003, 12:29 PM
the thing is a lot of people who bash steffi for being cold are supporting one of the most cold players on court there ever was. more cold then steffi ever could imagine.

yeah people say her career was partly stolen, true but that doesn't change the above but then it was suddenly called focus lmao :lol:

it's a fact but only steffi got bashed for it(already before 93). I have my opinions why but oke that's life.

and what has tokio 93 to do with it? as far I know nav also beat the player above a few weeks later so that just said what a great player nav was, but then it's more a shame for steffi then it was an achievement for nav right?

weird :o

Was Monica THAT cold?!

starr
Aug 8th, 2003, 01:26 PM
I don't know about anyone else here, but when Steffi Graf retired from tennis, I felt we lost more than just a great champion, but the door to a tennis era was closed. Gone are the champions who play week in and week out and give every match their very best effort- always 100%. How long will we have to wait to see another champion like her?


I am falling on the floor laughing about this. I have often thought that Venus and Serena used Steffi Graf as a model for scheduling their tournaments. Sorry if someone has pointed this out before, but I didn't read the whole thread.

Not counting FedCup
'86 - 14
'87 - 13
'88 - 14
'89 - 16 This is the olympic and GS year
'90 - 15
'91 - 15
'92 - 15
'93 - 15
'94 - 12
'95 - 11
'96 - 12
'97 - 5
'98 - 12
99 - 10

irma
Aug 8th, 2003, 01:43 PM
Was Monica THAT cold?!

well she was never a person who showed any emotion on court not when she won and neither when she lost, not pre or after and for sure less then steffi just watch french open final 92. of course the word cold is ridiculous. It was more to point out when steffi is focussed it's cold but when monica does it suddenly great and then she is suddenly such a great intensive competitior. that's a double standard.

starr
Aug 8th, 2003, 01:48 PM
I think the word cold is used more to describe Graf's off-court demeanor. Seles did not show emotion on the court, but was warm and engaging (but still with a good bit of old world reserve) She laughed and giggled and was warm in acknowledging the crowd. She also gave credit to her opponents in victory and loss.

irma
Aug 8th, 2003, 01:55 PM
and what cold thing did steffi do outside the court?

some people are not always happy and smiling. that has nothing to do with being cold. there can be millions reason why people are not open and reserved

I guess I am cold too since my social skills are about 1% as they should be too

irma
Aug 8th, 2003, 01:58 PM
and steffi hated pc so of course she didn't even try. it's amazing she skipped it only once well twice since she was forced once too

hingis-seles
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:04 PM
Irma knows I'm no Steffi fan :p;), but I have to say that legend has it that Steffi was more nervous giving press conferences than she was before her matches.

I felt the great champions of the game left when Nathalie Tauziat retired in 2001. :sad:

starr
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:05 PM
I only have to name one cold thing?

How about not bothering to mention Seles's name in her victory speech when winning the French Open only about a month after Seles was stabbed? Now that was cold.

Or......... how about Graf not voting for the measure that would have allowed Seles to retain her ranking while she recovered from being stabbed. I realize that nearly everyone else voted against it as well, but Seles was stabbed so that Graf could have a clear path to regaining her number one position. That was cold.

irma
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:07 PM
yeah indeed steffi hated the public life. she never choose for that when she was 3 as she said all the time later on.

starr
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:08 PM
Irma knows I'm no Steffi fan :p;), but I have to say that legend has it that Steffi was more nervous giving press conferences than she was before her matches.

I felt the great champions of the game left when Nathalie Tauziat retired in 2001. :sad:

Tauziat!!! The great one!! The Legend.

Yeah. Tauziat was the last of the old ones. I think Graf was the first of the new ones. She ushered in the new style of power from the baseline playing. Navratilova ushered in the era of physicality, but her style of playing was so much more traditional.

irma
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:09 PM
I only have to name one cold thing?

How about not bothering to mention Seles's name in her victory speech when winning the French Open only about a month after Seles was stabbed? Now that was cold.

Or......... how about Graf not voting for the measure that would have allowed Seles to retain her ranking while she recovered from being stabbed. I realize that nearly everyone else voted against it as well, but Seles was stabbed so that Graf could have a clear path to regaining her number one position. That was cold.

1 monica's best friend did neither but nobody says anything about that

2 she ran away. that has nothing to with being cold. I like to run away from tough things too.

hingis-seles
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:10 PM
starr, raises some very good points. And he is right!

About her being cold in the other sense, because she seemed aloof, it's because she was shy, IMO.

hingis-seles
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:12 PM
I'm posting a new thread regarding the #1 ranking after Monica's stabbing. :mad:

irma
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:14 PM
what's the use nobody had cared if asv had gotten it

alfajeffster
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:16 PM
1993 Tokyo, Japan SF W 4-6 6-3 6-3

Only gonna get worse?? What do you expect when your almsot 40? The fact she beat her the year before is shameful enough for Graf lol!

I only sent you the PM when you had avoided admitting you were completely wrong and jarred iny our idiotic thread about Nav avoiding Graf - your thread was proven to be bullshit and instead of admitting it you chose to just avoid going back there.

If thats your idea of a great chat, I also look fwd to many more.

If you really are in Sydney, then you should try to remember two things before flying off the deep end in a tizzy: (1) 8AM for you is 8PM for anyone on the East Coast; and (2) people do actually go on vacation and leave a conversation thread for extended periods of time.

"Steffi will take over my throne as soon as she's ready"- Martina Navratilova, 1987

starr
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:19 PM
1 monica's best friend did neither but nobody says anything about that

2 she ran away. that has nothing to with being cold. I like to run away from tough things too.


I don't quite understand your response. Steffi ran away when she was giving her victory speech when she didn't bother to acknowledge Seles' absence? Or she ran away when she voted?

I take it that you mean that Monica's best friend voted against allowing Monica to retain her ranking. I don't know to whom you refer, but it has nothing to do with my argument. Parche did not stab Seles in order to return Monica's best friend to her former number one status. It was done in Graf's name. Graf took the gift given. That is what I am saying was cold. Graf had an opportunity...... many opportunities actually..... to distance herself from this act, but she did not.

I remember thinking at the time, that Steffi would make some announcement........ thinking that she would acknowledge Seles in some way....... thinking that now Graf had an oppotunity for true gallantry and nobility that would strike a cord in the annals of sportsmanship........ I was prepared to completely change my opinion of her.

irma
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:24 PM
steffi didn't vote. she ran away and see you are saying steffi should have done more since the idiot named her name. so steffi should have felt guilty for something she didn't do. so you people blame steffi.
she had not more responsabilties then any other player period :o


and I was talking about the french open speech.

starr
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:33 PM
I don't blame Steffi at all for the stabbing.

I did not see her running away. Quite the contrary. I saw her giddy with delight. She was smiling and joyous. For her, her victory speech was quite lengthy. I waited and waited for the acknowledgment..... nope. Didn't come.

Why do you say she ran away? I don't understand that.

irma
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:37 PM
but monica's best friend did neither. you didn't wait for that? afterall the chance steffi had been there anyway were way higher then that mary joe had been there.
and steffi didn't look happy at all anyway

I mean she ran away from the voting by staying out of it. the myth says she voted against but that's not true.

irma
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:38 PM
after wimbledon she looked happy but not after the french open. that's another myth.

irma
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:39 PM
Q. Why don't you seem very cheerful, very happy? Is that because you are tired?

STEFFI GRAF: I am tired and I need a bit of rest.

hingis-seles
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:41 PM
I think the complete truth regarding Monica's #1 ranking status is in the thread I have started. That just sorts this debate out.

starr
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:44 PM
after wimbledon she looked happy but not after the french open. that's another myth.

You can NOT be serious!! (just to quote another tennis great)

I saw every minute of her victory speech. She was thrilled. It's not a myth. And she didn't run away from the victory speech. She spoke and smiled and was very happy.

starr
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:45 PM
The quote is from her press conference, not from her victory speech.

irma
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:47 PM
she was not happy. you are confused with the person who won hamburg

irma
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:52 PM
http://members.tripodnet.nl/steffifan5/f931.jpg

sorry for the bad quality but the look is clear

starr
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:56 PM
I didn't have an opportunity to see the Hamburg tournament on television, so I would have NO memory of that whatsoever. I do have a memory of Graf's victory speech after the French Open because I was listening and watching very carefully for some mention of Seles.

Also, she said she wasn't cheerful because she was tired....... not because she was feeling a bit of sorrow for Monica Seles. Since she was notorious for giving sulky, monosyllabic press conferences, it's not too surprising that she wasn't cheerful in the press conference.

starr
Aug 8th, 2003, 02:57 PM
I see you found a picture of Steffi where she wasn't smiling.......... what a shock. ;)

irma
Aug 8th, 2003, 03:01 PM
but you blamed steffi bot not mary joe? so you kept steffi more responsable because of some freak :o

starr
Aug 8th, 2003, 03:05 PM
I never made her responsible for Parche's actions. I hold her responsible for her own actions.

irma
Aug 8th, 2003, 03:06 PM
but only steffi and not the other players who did the same thing?. that's not fair.

I didn't see rome 93 but did conchita who never won a big title before say anything?

alfajeffster
Aug 8th, 2003, 05:50 PM
I never made her responsible for Parche's actions. I hold her responsible for her own actions.

What the hell is the big deal about how Steffi dealt with the stabbing and subsequent absence of Seles? Christ! Has she ever been one to show her emotions much or play out how she's feeling in the press and at award presentations? NO! I think it's pretty silly to be arguing that she should have mentioned Monica in her acceptance speeches, and should have done more to support Monica. STEFFI GRAF IS IN NO WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE STABBING! Yes, she won most of the majors in Monica's absence, but what are we trying to say- that Navratilova or Evert or Great Goddess Billie Jean King wouldn't have done the same? :fiery: