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View Full Version : Rxn on the message board to Justine - a little sanity


Volcana
Aug 6th, 2003, 12:43 PM
A lot of what comes out of Justine's mouth is maybe not-so-positive, but it's also just after matches. What you say when you're sore, tired, and just went through something highly emotional is not what you say normally. You're responsible for it, but circumstances do matter.

If she were a guy, we'd say Justine has pretty classic 'little man syndrome'. Small athletes sometimes get an attitude when they ALWAYS have to compete against increasingly bigger athletes. (Bear in mind, the great 'We' have been wrong before this.)

But perhaps, Justine's recent behaviour is not wholely out of the ordinary, much as we might hate to admit it.

Justine's first GS title was not met with the universal acclaim one might have expected, largely, but by no means entirely, because of her own behaviour. In the USA, there was more ink about the crowd and Justine's sportmanship than there was about her game. I'm sure that wasn't true in Belgium, but we're a slightly bigger market. Anyway you slice it, when you win RG, you expect headlines that read 'CHAMPION'. Not 'cheat', 'poor sport', 'racist crowd', etc. Justine beat a player who had won five straight GS titles, and people were already comparing (favorably, which is insane) to Steffi Graf.

And instead of adulation, she gets this crap. If I were her, I wouldn't be wasting my time being nice to people either.

Comparisons are tough, because most players have unique circumstance. Still, compare reactions to other players winning their GS titles. The difference is startling.

The closest example I guess would be Venus winning Wimbledon 2000. First GS title, foreign country, already established top five player. I live here, so it's hard to know what the all 'foreign' press said. Certainly there were no accusations of cheating or poor sportsmanship that time. (Not that Venus hasn't suffered her fair share of accusations.)

Monica, Martina Hingis and Serena all won their first so young that the press was all writng about them winning so young.
Lindsay was an American winning the US Open.
Jenn was a walking soap opera.

Winning your first GS title is in many ways a coronation. As long as they keep tennis records, your name is going to be on the books. It's a 'glory' moment. To an extent, Justine had that taken away.

It's sort of like when that person jumped into the Olympic Marathon toward then end and ran into the stadium well ahead of the real leader. A huge cheer went up, as it always does. When the real leader entered the stadium, fully expecting that emotional surge form the crowd, it never happened. Of course, the deception was discovered almost immediately, and the correct person was awarded the gold medal. But you can't get back the moment when 50,000 people SHOULD have been cheering you for something you've worked all you life to accomplish, and they aren't.

Note the 'sort of'.

Anyway, the Justine-bashing has passed, in my eyes, from legitemacy to (virtual, of course) lynch mob. People are criticizing Justine now for the 'fun' of saying nasty things about someone else. And of course, for the fun of tweaking Justine fans, because of percieved or actual slights involving THEIR faves form Justine's fans.

Last I checked, Justine hadn't killed anyone, joined a far-right hate group, kicked a dog or get caught pulling the wings off flies.

Poor sportsmanship is not a crime and it isn't exclusive to Justine.

In tennis, have you NEVER called a ball out that maybe clipped the line?

In volleyball, do you call yourself EVERY time you inadvertently touch the net?

In basketball, how often do you REALLY foul your opponent? (Not 'what did the ref call?')

There IS that 'speck in your neighbor's eye, log in your own' thing, y'know.

doloresc
Aug 6th, 2003, 01:04 PM
firstly, i want to stipulate that i'm not a fan of henin-hardenne's. i admire her talent but she isn't my favorite by a long shot.

i think some of the reactions have been valid. based on transcripts of her interviews, these posters formulated opinions. some favorable, some not.

i think some of the reactions are based on other agendas. their dislike for henin-hardenne has nothing to do with her comments. the posters holding these opinions are just upset that, in recent months, henin-hardenne has become a threat to the rest of the tour.

lastly, as i've said on a previous thread, i wish native english speakers were more lenient re: language. english isn't the mother tongue of 70% of (that's a guess) the tour and some of them didn't learn english formally so there will be mistakes in grammar and most importantly, intent. a phrase like "get out of my car" while rude in english may be seen as humorous in another language.

sartrista7
Aug 6th, 2003, 01:24 PM
I find it completely typical of WTAWorld that a thread like this, with two of the best posters posting stuff that makes perfect sense, gets so little reaction in comparison to all the moronic flame threads. Nothing really to say except: I reiterate what Volcana and doloresc have to say, but really don't expect all that many here to be as sensible about it all.

Allez Justine :)

per4ever
Aug 6th, 2003, 01:29 PM
Good posts :)

Petersmiler
Aug 6th, 2003, 01:43 PM
Have to add my 2 cents!

Yes, all of the above posts are excellent and I agree with Sartrista that is an sad indication of this place as to how they have been ignored.

However, I must point out that Henin's FO win was not at all 'tainted' in the UK. Possibly because tennis is only really on peoples minds over here during Wimbledon! But for those who did know who won the FO, I seriously doubt that the hand incident was high on their list of after dinner subjects!

Americans do have a tendancy to be very sensitive when it comes to how their people are treated around the world. And the fact that it was only the American commentators that constantly kept bringing up the hand incident during Wimbledon merely highlights this.

While it is conceivable that there are other fans around the world who have been 'put off' Justine by what happened, I do think you will find that the majority are American, because in their eyes it was an American who was cheated.

I was in Florida during the FO and was amazed at how interest plummeted once the americans were all out!

The Crow
Aug 6th, 2003, 01:44 PM
Volcana, great post. I too have the feeling that this board is getiing into a "lynch mob". And I have actually the feeling that what Justine sometimes says about the players (that they don't like it that she beats them because of her physique), is also true for the fans: I have the feeling that many fans are threatened by the fact that that tiny player from Belgium can beat their favs.

alexusjonesfan
Aug 6th, 2003, 02:04 PM
The sad/interesting thing was, Pat McEnroe decided to bring up the French Open semifinal controversy again as he was commentating on the Acura Classic Final last week. This was just after it was mentioned that Justine had won a GS this year. Volcana's theory of Justine being one of the only GS champions not to be treated like one makes sense...some sections of the press still haven't let go of the controversy in Paris and mentioning it in the same breath as her victory will have the desired effect of negating any real 'deserved' adulation. Now anything she does on court is a 'trick' or 'gamesmanship'. People still don't seem be able to decide whether that time out was necessary. That's not the point--you shouldn't be accused of trickery when you have your blisters retaped. Seems like the girl is condemned never to take a bathroom break without suspicion.

Leave what happened in Paris, in Paris. If you've made up your mind about not liking Justine's character, then watch her for the tennis she can produce--as should you for any other player.

Lady
Aug 6th, 2003, 02:10 PM
Really great post, Volcana! & great replies!! Nice to see that!!

SJW
Aug 6th, 2003, 02:21 PM
its sad to see the players being treated how we treat them...but this says a few things

1) theyve made it
2) people are jealous

a big deal is made out of such small things, that we often dont see the greatness of the accomplishments of these players....Henin a slam champ was overshadowed by that damn semi final, Henin winning her first hc title on US soil over the player of the moment was overshadowed by a damn injury time out, the defending champ of the USO undergoing surgery was overshadowed by Kim surging to the #1 spot (maybe thats a bad example. a belgian getting to #1 IS a big deal. but at this point the #1 is out of the next slam)

Beat
Aug 6th, 2003, 02:22 PM
i didn't care to answer any of the numerous threads following the acura final. it seemed astonishing to me that nobody even mentioned that they, you know, enjoyed the match. i know i did. the amount of comments on what happens "backstage" and what happens on court seems so unbalanced.
i find myself being irritated by justine quite often. but i also know that those things don't matter, as long as i enjoy watching her play tennis. and it IS still a joy to watch her.

shap_half
Aug 6th, 2003, 02:25 PM
Very wonderful thread going on here and such well thought out responses.

I agree, though. I think that a lot of what is going on now has really taken away ALOT from Justine's capabilities and tennis talents. Now that she's won another title after RG, people are looking for away to diminish her win against Kim just because of what happened in the RG semifinals. As much as it is difficult for people to truly understand the legitimacy of her win because of "once a cheater always a cheater", the extent to which she has been ridiculed, disrespected, and have her tennis underrated is just ridiculous. She won her first hardcourt tournament on US Soil against the future no.1 player and the onyl that came out of people's mouth is the question of her gamesmanship. I think it's time to get over what happened in Paris because holding on to that bias personally makes tennis a little less enjoyable.

Justine played marvelously in the second and last set of the Acura final. Justine played an amazing comback against Dementieva in the 4th round, but people are still harkering back to lying and cheating and whatever else which are all just specualtion anyway.

SJW
Aug 6th, 2003, 02:29 PM
Beat: the drama was good in the final.....the tennis quality on the other hand wasnt :o both girls are more than capable of getting a POSITIVE W/UFE more times than not. we havent seen the best from them yet :)

minboy
Aug 6th, 2003, 02:44 PM
I'm a justine fan, and in a way i'm very happy with all the craps people are saying about her.
Why? because it will make her stronger. Now she wanna proove the world that she was indeed the best player at the french open this year. She wanna proove them all that she was indeed better than clijsters in san diego. She wanna proove everybody that they were wrong.
That's the way justine ' s head work. The fans that followed her carreer for some time know what i'm talkin' about : she ALWAYS keep surprising us. When you think she's down, she come back stronger, all the time.
Some examples are her final in wimby in 2001. 1 month before she scored one of the biggest choke in rg history. People were already calling her the new Novotna. 1 week later she beat clijsters in the rosmalen final, then end capriati 's bid for the calendar slam and reach the final. In april 2002 she chocked big time against Venus in amelia island. At the time people wonder if she would ever win a + than tier3 title. 3 weeks later she won her first tier1 title beating serena in the final.
she has overcome A LOT of painful moments in her life and in her career, but those experiences made her stronger. That's where is fighting attitude come from.

second reason i'm happy with people accusing of justine cheating all the time is that , at one point , they will realise how RIDICULOUS they are always bringing that up. They will realise that she doesn't need to not tell the umpire she raise her hand to win 90% of her matches ( which is her record this year). They will admit that when her opponents are accusing of suspicious injury time out, it' s because they are frustrated loser. So they will apologise and stop ever questionning her behaviour.

and the last reason i'm glad with people disliking her now is because it means she can't stop winning. ;)

DA FOREHAND
Aug 6th, 2003, 02:53 PM
"some sections of the press still haven't let go of the controversy in Paris and mentioning it in the same breath as her victory will have the desired effect of negating any real 'deserved' adulation. Now anything she does on court is a 'trick' or 'gamesmanship'"

Just the commentators/sports writers? Didn't Kim, who isn't from the States, allude to the fact that she thinks justine uses gamesmanship to throw her opponents off? Would she know more about that than the avg. fan? Commentator? I think so. I also think Kim was upset w/this lose(loose) and started shooting off at the mouth. I do think that justine took a legitimate time-out, and at an appropriate time(between sets). justine's past actions caused Kim to bring them up during this tournament.

justine is a talented player, she's run off at the mouth enough, pump ya brakes and let your tennis speak for itself.

Lady
Aug 6th, 2003, 02:56 PM
That's true that Justine always surprises her fans!!
In the begginning of the year her fans hoped that she'll win 2-3 tournys this year, it's already been 5!!
Not many from us believed she will win Acura Classic, she did!! So, allez Justine, keep surprising us!!

minboy
Aug 6th, 2003, 02:58 PM
one more thing : i can't get why people don't understand that her recent statements were just a reaction to people questionning her abilities. She just won her first grand slam title, then win her first big title on her worst surface -american hard court-, beating world number 2 soon to be number 1 player and former nemesis in the final, and people are still implying that she don't totally deserve it. Who wouldn't make such statements!!! I would make them more than once!!!

katrientje
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:00 PM
:yeah:
Good to see some sanity on this board, really, I could use it...
Justine-fans who don't like getting into fights have a hard time in here these days

DA FOREHAND
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:09 PM
one more thing : i can't get why people don't understand that her recent statements were just a reaction to people questionning her abilities. She just won her first grand slam title, then win her first big title on her worst surface -american hard court-, beating world number 2 soon to be number 1 player and former nemesis in the final, and people are still implying that she don't totally deserve it. Who wouldn't make such statements!!! I would make them more than once!!!


The I'm a little girl comments are pure B.S. Martina Hingis is smaller and none of her strokes are as powerful as justine's, and she was number one for over 200 weeks beating all comers.

Cybelle Darkholme
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:14 PM
Volcana, great post. I too have the feeling that this board is getiing into a "lynch mob". And I have actually the feeling that what Justine sometimes says about the players (that they don't like it that she beats them because of her physique), is also true for the fans: I have the feeling that many fans are threatened by the fact that that tiny player from Belgium can beat their favs.


I disagree. Martina HIngis reigned as number one for a long long time and she was smaller, less powerful, and had a much weaker serve than justine. I don't believe the fans or the players feel threatened. What is justine going to the lockerroom holding a gun to everyone's head? The problem is that some fans, me included, don't like the warped things she says or her character on court. Notice how kim is about to take on the number one and most fans of other players actually cheer her on, I know I do.

Anyway not everyone likes every player. I think the best way to deal with a thread you despise is to not post in it and let it disappear.

minboy
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:18 PM
The I'm a little girl comments are pure B.S. Martina Hingis is smaller and none of her strokes are as powerful as justine's, and she was number one for over 200 weeks beating all comers.


what does b.s mean? anyway it's not justine's fault if journalists are always aking her about her size

Josh
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:20 PM
One correction : Justine (167cm) is smaller than Martina (170cm).

DA FOREHAND
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:22 PM
B.S.=bullshit

DA FOREHAND
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:23 PM
B.S.=bullshit

You're right, and instead of trumpetting her size like it's some kind of handicap she could tell then you don't have to be an amazon to generate pace, or have a big game. The way she comes off is that she has to work twice as hard as everyone else to win a point. Let's praise her. NOT!! There have been recent smaller and more accomplished players.

alexusjonesfan
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:25 PM
"some sections of the press still haven't let go of the controversy in Paris and mentioning it in the same breath as her victory will have the desired effect of negating any real 'deserved' adulation. Now anything she does on court is a 'trick' or 'gamesmanship'"

Just the commentators/sports writers? Didn't Kim, who isn't from the States, allude to the fact that she thinks justine uses gamesmanship to throw her opponents off? Would she know more about that than the avg. fan? Commentator? I think so. I also think Kim was upset w/this lose(loose) and started shooting off at the mouth.

I said that some section of the press mention Justine's RG win and follow it up with the controversy surrounding the semifinal. Not Kim. Because of that Justine's seems to be under the 'always suspect' category. Kim would know better than the average fan etc. but I have no idea what she was talking about after the Acura final. She seemed pissed at the idea of anyone taking any time outs or retiring for any reason other than serious, debilitating injury. You'd also think Justine would know better than to accuse Davenport of faking injury last year, but even the average fan/commentator saw past that on that occasion. Once Kim launches an organized, well thought out complaint which doesn't come after a tough loss and/or instigatory questioning, I'll take her comments very seriously.

Josh
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:28 PM
There have been recent smaller and more accomplished players.

Can you give names?

DA FOREHAND
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:31 PM
Asv, Martina Hingis

Josh
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:33 PM
Asv, Martina Hingis

Both are taller than Justine.

alfajeffster
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:34 PM
Tennis doesn't build character, it merely reveals it...

DA FOREHAND
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:36 PM
Wrong! And neither of them hit as big as justine

minboy
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:36 PM
B.S.=bullshit

You're right, and instead of trumpetting her size like it's some kind of handicap she could tell then you don't have to be an amazon to generate pace, or have a big game. The way she comes off is that she has to work twice as hard as everyone else to win a point. Let's praise her. NOT!! There have been recent smaller and more accomplished players.


lol! i've read dozens of interviews where she says that size doesn't matter that much, that she has other weapons ( speed, ...). Still truth is that she 's the smaller top ten player is a sport where size is an advantage

alexusjonesfan
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:39 PM
great!, the prescription thread is spreading the infection :rolleyes:

Josh
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:39 PM
Wrong! And neither of them hit as big as justine

What wrong? Both ASV and Hingis are 170cm or 5'7 while Justine is 167cm or 5'5 and a bit.

So you're statement that there have been recent SMALLER and more accomplished players than Justine is incorrect. There have been small and more accomplished players than Justine but none of them was smaller, at least not recently.

rand
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:40 PM
but martina w as taller than justine wasn't she?

maccardel
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:42 PM
{read the first post in this thread to see entire quote cos it was too long to quote.}
Comparisons are tough, because most players have unique circumstance. Still, compare reactions to other players winning their GS titles. The difference is startling.

Anyway, the Justine-bashing has passed, in my eyes, from legitemacy to (virtual, of course) lynch mob. People are criticizing Justine now for the 'fun' of saying nasty things about someone else. And of course, for the fun of tweaking Justine fans, because of percieved or actual slights involving THEIR faves form Justine's fans.




I agree with your post but lets say if Kim had beaten Serena in OZ earlier this year then I don't think it would be the same reaction due to the "fairness" of the match and yes the match would have been in Kim's "hometown" and critics could say the fans were against Serena....that wasn't the case so I can't go on what ifs.

You have to admit that the French Open thing happened and the remarks were said and what didn't help either was Carlos' statement and also Justine's non-chalant attitude. It sucks big time and looks like she is confirming our beliefs about her....

Other players give and don't give credit but they don't so openly and blatantly react the way Justine has recently and in the past. I imagine that she plays mentally but lets not forget that her weakest part of the game is mental and she turns that around by doing these little gimicks in the match. She seems vendictive and her responses and behavior only confirms this. I imagine Jennifer Capriati was a top challenger to Serena and Venus but when it came down to the wire, and she lost, they wasn't no bad words just credit given and same goes with Kim....

I imagine that Kim could have said the same thing about Serena in Oz and she had every right since she had recently beaten Serena in the Year end and also the fact that Venus had retired with injury in that same tourney and Kim didn't state anything to that affect. Add to the fact that both Venus and Serena took injury timeouts when Kim was leading in semifinals of grandslam......Serena (OZ) and Venus (wimbledon). She had every right to bitch in those situations and she didn't she even complemented Venus and said that she was playing on adrenaline and that helped her.....and this is the semis of a grandslam....especially after Justine had recently won Roland Garros, then kim would want to match that and she wasn't bitter.

Lindsay and Justine had a run in and it involved the same thing and guess what? In their next match-up, who takes a time out? Justine. Only to be vendictive...I don't really care how anyone tries to dress this thing up but it troubles me and it doesn't warrant a lynching only caution. It does leave a bad taste in the mouth when a player has to resort to such behaviour and not to mention the coaching Carlos does during the match.....

I don't know if it is right for me to say anything anymore cos then my statements would be suspect considering who my favs are. As far as I am concerned, I already got my satisfaction with a win at wimbledon, and do not consider myself to harbor sour grapes.

I think that to have the same player involved once again in yet another similar controversy is troubling and very disturbing to the sport. I imagine that her win at RG can be looked at as " if you wanted to win so badly then here take it" no one wanted that title including kim considering the fact that the "right" person was not in the final cos yes it was tainted. You may say Kim is not that nice, but lets put it this way, she has not done anything to prove otherwise...

I am sorry, but I don't think that Kim would change overnight like that over one match in a regular tourney and not a grandslam. If that was the case then you would think she would say the same thing about Venus who retired against her in the year end and then later beat her in the Diamond games and then the match up at wimbledon where venus won.......

I don't believe anything Justine says or does anymore cos she has proven she is not to be trusted. It's win by any means necessary....that is sad for the sport.

minboy
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:44 PM
Wrong! And neither of them hit as big as justine


1. they both are indeed taller than justine. asv won her GS's when the power babes were not on the tour. Hingis stopped winning because she couldn't face with them ( power babes) anymore
2. true that neither o them hit as big as justine....all credit to her then!

DA FOREHAND
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:51 PM
"I am sorry, but I don't think that Kim would change overnight like that over one match in a regular tourney and not a grandslam. If that was the case then you would think she would say the same thing about Venus who retired against her in the year end and then later beat her in the Diamond games and then the match up at wimbledon where venus won.......

I don't believe anything Justine says or does anymore cos she has proven she is not to be trusted. It's win by any means necessary....that is sad for the sport."

GOOD points good post. justine has proven to many tennis fans, and apparently the lockerroom, including Kim and Serena, that she is not to be trusted, and taken at her word.

Kim is almost unanimously stated to be one of if not the nicest girl on the tour, and she has questioned justine's character, this after Serena flat out called her a liar and a fabricator, what does that tell you? That the number one and number two players in the world are upset that poor little sweet justine beat them? OKEY DOKEY

The Crow
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:58 PM
Anyway not everyone likes every player. I think the best way to deal with a thread you despise is to not post in it and let it disappear.

O I agree. I too don't like some of the players, but I'm not always posting in every single thread bashing that player or saying that I don't like their attitude or their spirit or whatever.

If you look at almost all of these threads "against Justine", you will see that it are always the same people saying a sentence like "because she's a big cheat blablabla"... Well if someone is that opposed to some-one (s)he don't even know, then me thinks someone has a problem :rolleyes:

fleemke³
Aug 6th, 2003, 04:07 PM
First :worship: to the posts of doloresc and Volcana

It's hard to be a fan of Justine these days you know ;)

1. Realise that the press is choosing the questions, not Justine (or any other player)
2. Do please don't act if Justine never gives credits to other players, she had no problem to admit that Serena was much better than her at Wimbledon.
3. @ The Crow: I know what you mean ;)
4. Can't you just image that there was nothing wrong with Justine's time-out and that Kim was just frustrated she had lost a match on a surface that was hers by far untill saturday?
5. The thing I'm interested in is HOW she plays in the first place. Williams fans go back in history and look at some interviews of these girls and you'll have to admit that they were (are?) very arrogant sometimes. Look at Martina H. she also said some rude things in interviews, .... I mean everybody had some bad moments, even Kim now imo ;), they are human you know?
6. I really enjoyed that match and even when Justine would have lost I still liked it. Maybe because I love tennis?

rottweily
Aug 6th, 2003, 04:14 PM
Volcana, great post. I too have the feeling that this board is getiing into a "lynch mob". And I have actually the feeling that what Justine sometimes says about the players (that they don't like it that she beats them because of her physique), is also true for the fans: I have the feeling that many fans are threatened by the fact that that tiny player from Belgium can beat their favs.

Correct!

XMan
Aug 6th, 2003, 04:18 PM
Great post Volcana.

Juju_fan
Aug 6th, 2003, 04:51 PM
6. I really enjoyed that match and even when Justine would have lost I still liked it. Maybe because I love tennis?
:worship:
I had the exact same thought ;)
Justine was exceeding my expectation, and I told myself she shouldn't have any regrets if she had eventually lost in the third set, because both had a high level of play, and especially Justine on her worst surface :cool:

harloo
Aug 6th, 2003, 04:59 PM
Volcana, the question I would like to ask is who made you God? People are reacting to Justines very own comments. It's a known fact that anything ANY player says is always scrutinized on this board. Now sometimes I don't agree with everyone's opinions, but why is Justine any different?

Yes, her integrity came into question because of the FO hand incident. I don't know what anyone was expecting because it was live on tv for the world to see. With her new comments in addition to the controversy people will question her sportsmanship.

Oh you say she shouldn't be nice to people either, but it's better to diffuse a situation than to go on and on about it like you did nothing wrong. IMO, that's what Justine is doing right now.

I don't care if she states she wants to be #1, or that she is confident in her game but the sportsmanship issue really turns me off about her. It should be the goal of every player to be the best, however to not even own up to what happened is a mistake.

IMO, her first slam will be remembered for what happened in the semis than the actual win. It's kind of sad, because honestly I would take my hat off to anyone winning their first but I cannot say this about Justine. Sorry that's how I feel about it, and I have a right to my opinion.

Mrs. Peel
Aug 6th, 2003, 05:01 PM
So does this mean I have to like her?!?!? :rolleyes:

treufreund
Aug 6th, 2003, 05:05 PM
I think it's perfectly fine for Justine to talk about her size. A lot of people focus on it and ask her questions about it and there is a lot of attitude from tall girls like Petrova or Dokic who seem to think they should just crush players like Coetzer, Hingis or Justine. a lot of the girls on the tour seem to have the mentality that might makes right and that transfers to them all "playing their style of tennis" which is just hard-hitting. Justine comes along and hits hard, moves well AND mixes it up and "plays unfair" by hitting slices, volleys, drop shots, lobs and topspin which are not allowed in today's "modern" power game. She is little and is not "supposed to" embarrass taller players by acing them or dictating points. Of course JEALOUSY is real. Btw, if you are tall like Venus and dominate you also get attitude from "shorter" players like Dokic who then play victim role so you cannot have it both ways. Justine has always said that she uses her size as a motivation. Same thing with Hewitt who is fiery and is always out to prove something to those who consistently write him off.

minboy
Aug 6th, 2003, 05:05 PM
So does this mean I have to like her?!?!? :rolleyes:

no. just respect her! ( sorry , i forgot respect wasn't a big deal on this board )

Mrs. Peel
Aug 6th, 2003, 05:12 PM
no. just respect her! ( sorry , i forgot respect wasn't a big deal on this board )

:rolleyes: x10,000

alexusjonesfan
Aug 6th, 2003, 05:18 PM
:rolleyes: x10,000

oh you didn't just turn this thread into a smiley war :spit:

:p X http://cfd.me.umist.ac.uk/ercofold/images/infinity.gif

DA FOREHAND
Aug 6th, 2003, 05:19 PM
"Justine comes along and hits hard, moves well AND mixes it up and "plays unfair" by hitting slices, volleys, drop shots, lobs and topspin which are not allowed in today's "modern" power game. She is little and is not "supposed to" embarrass taller players by acing them or dictating points. Of course JEALOUSY is real"

LOL now you're trying to imply that all the Big Babes do is hit hard(not that there's anything wrong w/that, last i checked Capriati 3,Monica 9,) and justine is what a finesse player? just because you can hit a slice backhand you're now a finesse player? justine plays big babe tennis from a shorter vantage point.

There may be a 1inch diff. in her and Hingis' height, Martina is more accomplished, and hits not nearly as hard. justine is not unique for her size.

There is rampant jealosy on the WTA tour, but no racism...;-) well one down one to go.

GogoGirl
Aug 6th, 2003, 11:28 PM
Let's pretend here and suppose that it was another player in that infamous semifinal that ended up causing a controversional situation that's sure to follow the said player's career. Let's take Justine's name out of the equation and insert another's as it relates to what happened in Paris, France at the French Open, and as it pertains to the non-admittance or fess up by her, that she indeed did raise her hand as Serena had started her service motion.

I truly searched my heart about this debate and decided that whoever would have acted out the way Justine did by not being truthful, and by not showing true sportsman(woman)ship, would have dropped down a few notches on my admiration and appreciation scale. I don't care if Venus or Serena had done it - I wouldn't have appreciated it - nor would I have ignored or condoned it. IMO - is was just not a proper and decent thing to intentionally do, nor was it right to lead a tennis official down the wrong path about such a thing.

Justine's reasoning is that the Umpire should have seen it and that it was not her job to admit an action that she did. It was not her job to admit an action that Serena did either - for it was about what she did or didn't do, so why not just be honest? (And especially w/millions watching) Now - why is it that the umpire looked to her to get her take on the situation after hearing what Serena’s reasoning was as to why she felt she DESERVED another serve?

I don't know how many times someone on this board has proclaimed their dislike for many players to include my faves. People have the right to their opinions and the right to decide how they arrived at those opinions. I don't think anyone can convince me that I don't have the right to feel disappointed in someone's actions - and IMO - it matters little about the venue or the occasion that predicated my decision about how I feel about a person - place or thing.

If anything - one would think that a Grand Slam tourney would be the main venue where all players played their hearts out - but at the same time - insured they played fair. IMO - Justine did not play fair. And no one can change my mind or evidently others' minds about the fact that they were disappointed in her if that is how they feel - because most saw the action first hand. Most didn't have to read or hear about it from somewhere or someone else - for they saw it w/their own eyes up close and personal.

If Justine doesn't feel that she did anything wrong - nor feels that she should have come clean, or that she should have apologized after the fact - then guess what - that is her right. But it is also the right of anyone that didn't appreciate it - not to have appreciated it. And again - it matters not the venue or occasion - IMO.

She won the tourney - and on that fact alone - she gets the credit. But praise - I wasn't feeling it.

And should we move and forget about this thing? Who knows? I do agree w/the ones that have stated that many of the other players will certainly not hold her in the highest esteem, and they don't care if she won a slam or not. Tennis is a game - but character is forever. So see - when this type of situation occurs - forgiveness is grand - yet it will always be hard to forget - IMO.

Let's not blame anyone else if indeed it is what Justine did or didn't do that will follow her all her tennis career long. Regardless of what we may say or feel on this little 'ole message board - she could care less - so what we say will never have an affect on her - and that is as it should be.

Juju_fan
Aug 6th, 2003, 11:54 PM
Justine's reasoning is that the Umpire should have seen it and that it was not her job to admit an action that she did. It was not her job to admit an action that Serena did either - for it was about what she did or didn't do, so why not just be honest? (And especially w/millions watching) Now - why is it that the umpire looked to her to get her take on the situation after hearing what Serena’s reasoning was as to why she felt she DESERVED another serve?
Move on. Get a life.

Keep thinking Justine is a cheater if you want. In that case, maybe you should open your eyes and make a thread about all the "cheatings" that took place during any WTA matches this year. But get prepared to have your thread moved to the "1000+ replies" threads section :lol:

moon
Aug 7th, 2003, 12:20 AM
It doesn't bother me if they bring up FO for the rest of Justine's career. Someone stated right after FO that her actions would follow her, and indeed they have.

Sam L
Aug 7th, 2003, 12:41 AM
If it means I was going to have a GS trophy and millions in prizemoney and international fame, let it follow me and see if I care. Quite frankly, I don't think she cares either.

Heck it's not like she committed murder and is on the run?!?! :confused: lol Get over it people!

Ted of Teds Tennis
Aug 7th, 2003, 12:43 AM
Harloo wrote:
Volcana, the question I would like to ask is who made you God?

I did, thank you very much. :p :lol: :p

SJW
Aug 7th, 2003, 01:04 AM
btw all these people who are laughing at the very idea of Justine being called a cheater etc....would u feel the same way if it happened AGAINST Justine? :rolleyes: i dont think so. personally i dont care for that FO, that semi or that incident. it was a whole loads of messed up bs. but i know, if Serena had committed "the hand of god", it would be a lot worse than what yall are getting now...

i take it yall arent happy about Justines etiquette being called into question. so can i just ask, are you same Justine fans happy that she

1) called Linzi a faker (im being blunt...its 1 AM)
2) didnt give Serena a second serve
3) her loud mouthed coach (who was actually very nice to me at Wimby btw :)) keeps making controversial remarks when he should just not bring the locker room business into the public eye.

i cant say im totally happy about 2/3 of those (hint: its not #2), but all this, plus the Acura "incident" (there was nothing in the t/o!! its the comments after which deserves all the attention :devil: ), and her cramps (which i believe she was NOT faking....i would never accuse a player of that :tape: ) has happened in the last fucking 10 months! :eek:

i just wanna know, is Justine gonna have controversy surrounding her like a bad smell for the rest of her days? is she capable of upsetting each and every player on tour?

and thinking about it more, if her FO breakthrough was to be remembered for her winning the final, and not the events of the semi, then maybe she shoulda done the "right" thing :tape: in rich (previously) middle class sports such as tennis, you in theory should "play fair" cos they (fans, media, & the like) have a thing about that :rolleyes:;)

Mr. Man
Aug 7th, 2003, 01:29 AM
i just wanna know, is Justine gonna have controversy surrounding her like a bad smell for the rest of her days?
I say probably yeah. It has already been done after 2 months, Pam or Mary Jo(one of those) brought up RG semi. Pat Macenroe even brought it up during a men's final two weeks ago, stating Justine lacked sportsmanship.

Just wait, it will be brought up at the USO by one of the commentators. So, again I say yes. RG semi really hurt Justine. But seriously, I don't think she gives a shit anyways.

Volcana
Aug 7th, 2003, 01:59 AM
I really enjoyed the Acura final by the way. It was a bit like Venus vs Serena in that the quality was uneven, but the highlight film was incredible.

If only Kim would learn to attack, Justine could figure out Venus, and Venus could figure out Serena. Actually, that would really suck for the rest of the tour. It would be like having FOUR Williams sisters.

Ballbuster
Aug 7th, 2003, 03:22 AM
Honestly,

That was a dumb move by Justine in the FO. Just plain stupid in front of millions of fans.

She deserves what her behavior brings.

Recently, however, I believe two things.
1. Justine is on the rise and the player can't take it
2. Justine - for PR sake should be more diplomatic.

Those words Serena used against Justine were angry words. Serena has talked many times before the same core of reporters. They believed Serena.

Same is true for Kim. Therefore, it's Justine's morality that is being called into play. She has been called out by 3 top ranked players. It don't look good.

CiCi Bonus Baby
Aug 7th, 2003, 03:33 AM
go justine!