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View Full Version : Sorry, but just one more thread about the Justine-Kim quarrel...


kimclijsters4ever
Aug 6th, 2003, 12:51 AM
Ok, it’s about the incident of the San Diego Final once again. I know there’ve already been so many threads about it and also think that it’s really enough now. But let me just start one more…

First of all, about what Kim said… Sure, it’s wrong to say that. We all know it isn’t true Justine asks a medical time-out every time she plays Kim… And nobody but Justine can really know if she needed that medical time-out.
And we all could see Justine HAD blisters. But Justine of course knew that too, that everybody could see her feet was taped. So if she was bothered or not by the blisters, she knew nobody would question a medical time-out… But did she need a medical time-out? No one will ever know… All we could do is guessing…

But why would Kim say such a thing??? Our little nice Kimmy who had never said one word negative about any other player…

Of course one of the reasons was because she was very disappointed for losing this match. And why wouldn’t she be disappointed? She has played Justine so many times and has a good record against her. And from the last 4 meetings, who were all in finals, she couldn’t win one… (Yes she won one in ‘s Hertogenbosch for the records but that wasn’t exactly a win because Justine has retired in that match)

The first match of the 4, Berlin, Kim has no problems with the loss. She had her chances but she couldn’t finish the match. The only one she could blame was herself. Also in Paris there was no question, Justine was the better player that day.
In the final of ‘s Hertogenbosch, she started to get a little bit annoyed, because she felt she could win that day but Justine retired in the second set. Justine couldn’t help this, nobody can help he has an injury. So Kim isn’t right by being upset here imho. But I can understand that there’s growing a little frustration because she wants to prove, she still can beat Justine.
And the San Diego was just the last straw… Kim took the first set and Justine suddenly asks a medical time-out. Ok Justine had the right to do that… And I think that wasn’t the real problem for Kim… But after that medical time out, she didn't seemed to be bothered at all and it was just like Justine wanted to “wreck” Kim… She suddenly was very aggressive and had a very hostile look in her eyes. She shouted her ALLEZ on moments that you don’t do if you have a little bit sportsmanship. When Kim made a stupid error for example. And I think that was bothering her much more than the time-out itself. Also the quote “Sometimes she was limping after a point that she lost, then next point she was running all the balls down. Those were like little signs where I thought maybe she's faking it a little bit” is very true… And she don’t say she was faking, she thought it and anyone may think what they want…

When I must give may own opinion, I must say, I leave it aside that the blisters bothered her or not, but it was the best thinkable time-out she could ask for. And she had a clean alibi by the tape on her foot. But I am not bothered by that. What I really didn’t like was the mental war Justine tried to start after that time-out even its her right to do it. It just looks like Justine wants to win at all costs. Think about the Serena-incident. She doesn’t even feel ashamed to admit that she did it. She only said she isn’t to blame because the umpire didn’t see it and it was his decision and that one point don’t make a win or a loss.

Also with the other players don’t like me because I’m becoming so good and they are afraid to lose from me because I’m so tiny but I can also run as fast as them and can as hit as them. That’s imho just a mask she’s trying to put on and a sort of mental war she trying to wage with the other players.

My Conclusion: We could say Kim was wrong here, but it was understandable. Justine just tried to made Kim frustrated by making it to a mental fight. The wrong thing from Kim was the reaction afterwards but especially the fact that she has let it to bother her.

But I see it as a very good thing. Once bitten, twice shy. The next time they will play, Justine can asks hundreds of time outs, can shout allez on double faults of other stupid misers of Kim, Kim will just say to herself: "It’s just Justine who’s trying every possible way to beat me… But I can show it with my tennis who is really the best today" and she will not make the same mistake she did last sunday…

I cannot wait for another match between Kim and Juju … And I’m not saying Kim will win, but just that kim will not make the same mistake again.

And for Justine. I must confess I like her a lot less than a few months ago. And no Justine, it’s not because you’re becoming so good or out a frustration of beating my favourite girl three times this year. I’m not so a dull kim-fan. No, you have the right to try to win every match in every possible way, but I think it’s better to prove the world you can beat them without using tricks. And I think in the end, what you do to others will finally come back to you. Other players will maybe also try to make it hard for her mentally… Stop feel sorry for yourself Justine, with saying you’re little and other stuff. Let your tennis do the talk and not your words or tricks…

And for what it’s worth, Justine is still one of my favourites, but really not that high anymore as it used to be…

And I understand the Justine fans. A real fan must support his favourite, even if they can be sometimes wrong also. So was Kim wrong with saying that stuff in her interview about Justine… I think, you can also support your favourite with saying she was wrong...
And here Justine wasn't wrong, I just don't like her attitude her, that's all.

ßcoene
Aug 6th, 2003, 01:01 AM
I think Justine is just trying to get more tough mentally, and I think she is.
She knows it was a weakness of her in the past, so she can't go back, she must stay mentally tough.

ns_Henin
Aug 6th, 2003, 01:30 AM
The wrong thing is on Kim's mentally. Why she cant face an agressive Justine? Maybe because she was try to close the match as soon as possible, while Justine wanted to play more by played the rallies and more defensive. I think Kim felt she must win, she was too ambitious at that moment, so she played hurries and she got more frustated when Justine raise her game. So why we must blame Justine? It's all happened because Kim's fragile mental and Justine didn't have any faults at all.

Dawn Marie
Aug 6th, 2003, 01:30 AM
I think that no matter what Justine has said or done in the past that the final in San Diego was won by her being the better player.

She was clearly hurt and she won the match on fitness,finesse and mental toughness.

Sorry, I do think she cheated at Rg on Serena but I am not going to sit up here and state she cheated on Saturday when my eyes told me different. Justine flat out outplayed Kim in the final. Kim even admitted she was out of gas.

Venus was injured at Wimbeldon and she played through the pain and yet she still managed to play aggressive tennis. I really think that in this match Justine did the same. Regardless of her past actions, imho that blister was bothering her. I also think that if Kim had won she would not have stated what she stated about gamesmanship.


Now many people think Kim is the sweetest thing since slice bread, I never thought that. (sure she is nice but she has a bitchy side too) (afterall she is a human and no Saint) She wants to win and just because the media makes it out to be that Kim is all nice, doesn't mean that she is right in her asessment of Justine during the final.

Imho it doesn't make sense. Justine getting her foot wrapped was poor gamesmanship? When would it have been the appropriate time to get it re-taped then? Kim is only giving other players ideas on how to distress her during a match. Just take an injury time-out and Kim will lose.

I am sorry, but Kim is wrong here and I am not going to fall for the Kim is nice crap and therefore she is right and Justine wrong. Even if I feel like seeing Justine get her ass waxed by other players, imho the truth is that Kim was just plain ole being a poor sport. She just lashed out because Justine is starting to get inside her head.

I mean I saw it coming. Kim has always been the "Belgian's gurl" Kim was supposed to win the first slam, Kim was supposed to win RG. Instead Justine beat her soundly. Then she beat her again. I also don't think Kim stated anything about Justine's gamemanship due to anything she did at RG or wherever. If she felt that strongly about the issue then it would have came out after the RG final or during her play. Why let the feelings be known when you lose? I know why because it is only about that factor... SHE LOST.

All this is a case of Justine is starting to beat Kim and Kim is letting Justine get to her.



Now what I am going to find interesting here is this:

Will justine keep on beating Kim?

Will Kim get mentally tougher and begin to beat Justine on a regular basis? Will Justine begin to get her ass waxed by the top 9? Will she back her words up?

I am excited to see the outcome.

ns_Henin
Aug 6th, 2003, 01:37 AM
And here Justine wasn't wrong, I just don't like her attitude her, that's all.

Which attitude? Try to play more aggresive when she lost the first set? Oh yeah I think when u play tennis, and you lost the 1st set, so u must say "I must give up right now. Let her wins this match"
I think that attitude is more stupid, because you must not give up if u are a real champion, u must fight till the end of the match, u must have big motivation to win the 2nd, and what Justine did is very great.

Astro Jetson
Aug 6th, 2003, 01:50 AM
Sorry to say this, but there are some inconcistencies in your remarks. On the one hand you are implying Justine was right, but on the other hand you are mentioning a little further that Justine uses mental tricks. To me that sounds a bit insincere. You can't have it both ways. It's like you start with saying "I'm not a Justine basher", but then end with doing just that. I can be wrong, but the motivation of this thread (although you say you don't have sour grapes) still appears to me as anti-Justine and not to defend your fav Kim.

And another thing that bothers me a little, is you handily left out the fact that Kim was the one who asked a timeout after she lost the first set in Berlin. Maybe because then you would have to acknowledge Kim uses the same mental tricks she (and you) accuse Justine of. The only time Justine asked a timeout against Kim was after the fall at Rosmalen and she retired shortly thereafter. So Kim indeed was wrong by stating "she does it everytime".

And what is the difference between Justine's "allez" and Kim's "come on". :confused: As far as I can remember the only times Justine shouted it, was when she finally won her first game at 4-0 in the first set and when she broke Kim in the third at 3-3. Kim must have shouted "come on" just as many times.

I can understand you are disappointed that your fav lost and that Kim isn't crushing Justine anymore like she did in LA, Sydney or Antwerp. (Oh how she crushed Justine back then :sad: But that's not a reason to taint this victory of Justine.

kimclijsters4ever
Aug 6th, 2003, 02:48 AM
Of course Justine deserved to win Sunday. She was just the better player. It was Kim’s own fault to let her bother whatever may or not have happened during that final. When you’re are a top-player, you can’t blame your loss on something the other did or did not on purpose !!!

Which attitude? Try to play more aggresive when she lost the first set? Oh yeah I think when u play tennis, and you lost the 1st set, so u must say "I must give up right now. Let her wins this match"
I think that attitude is more stupid, because you must not give up if u are a real champion, u must fight till the end of the match, u must have big motivation to win the 2nd, and what Justine did is very great.

Of course that would be really stupid, playing more aggressive is just the best thing you can do to turn a match around. I didn’t meant that by attitude and Justine did nothing wrong (AGAIN how many times more, do I have to say that?) I just think shouting allez when the player just missed an easy shot, when you’re leading in the set and it has nothing to do with a BP, isn’t a very good example of showing sportsmanship. When you do that after winning a hard-fought point, after winning your first game of the set of by saving or converting a Bp, it’s only normal…

And Justine did nothing wrong here, Kim is the one to blame here… But I don’t think it’s necessary to bash kim therefore !!! Everybody says things that are not 100 % correct sometimes. And therefore I started this thread…

And for Justine it’s just I don’t like that she is always speaking about what others think and that the other top players just don’t like being there above the WTA-rankings because she isn’t physically build the same as the others…

And for Kim, Kim isn’t stupid… She will learn from her mistakes she made Sunday… And hopefully in the future, she gets a more little bit of that killer-instinct like Henin-Hardenne as long as she keeps her sense of sportsmanship and be the lovely kimmy as we fans like her

TSequoia01
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:00 AM
It is all too obvious that Kim is questioning Justine's integrity just as Serena did at the FO. They must have showed that hand a thousand times at Wimby to the entire world. When a thief is in your house and something is missing who does all eyes focus on even if they did not steal anything? Sour grapes from Kim, rush to judgement on the thief....... maybe. :cool:

Amanda
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:05 AM
Advice to Kim and Justine------> :tape:

kicker
Aug 6th, 2003, 11:04 AM
I don't see it either as an anti-justine or pro-kim thread...

The only thing I see is a thread that tells us that kim was wrong to say this comments...

And I also think that's a relief she said that, because we know Kim will now try harder to win and won't let such things bother her anymore

surfinggirl
Aug 6th, 2003, 12:15 PM
I completely agree with ns_henin and Dawn Marie.
Justine did nothing wrong, but Kim did. And Justine already started to play better when she was 4-0 down! She just continued where she left. She deserved to win that match! She was the better player of the two.
And I also agree that when you lose the first set, you have to think what you can change to turn this match around and that was playing more aggressive, which she already begun at the end of the first, but truly went for it in the second and the third.
Kim never should've mentioned that. That was wrong. But I can understand that Kim got angry because she was dissapointed, just like Justine mentioned herself. She already lost the first grand slam (where actually everyone thought it would be Kim), she lost 3 of 4 finals this year to Justine and she lost the number 1 ranking on saturday again to Justine. She was frustrated. But she will be number 1 soon, but I hope Justine will overtake her! (That's my opinion because I love Justine) Everyone hopes their fave will be number 1. So root for you fave but let the other one alone and don't wish them bad luck or so.
But kimclijsters4ever we don't bash Kim as Justine fans,but many bashed Justine more for doing it so and agreed with Kim. You can look at this whole board and you will find more accusations (?) towards Justine than Kim.
Kim is always been loved more than Justine, just because she's so nice. Justine is too, but not many people get to see her true self and I must say I already saw her and met her and she is really a nice person. I just wish the rest of the world could see it too.
And it's understandable that justine fans get to kim and kim fans get to justine for defending their favourite player! But I just wished this could all be over, because this is just a silly fight. Everyone says something in the heat of the moment, but actually wouldn't say it after an hour or so!

So everyone stop this and support your fave player again without bashing the other. I do too! And that's how a true supporter is for their fave!

per4ever
Aug 6th, 2003, 12:44 PM
The only thing what matters are titles. Mental tricks are part of tennismatch. They are part of every sport (think of soccer where someone pretends to be hurt to get another player sent off, or get a penalty).

So basically you're telling me that Kim has problems dealing with some "Allez's" while she has no problem at all with so many supporters shouting in a stadium?

'Poor sportmanship'..it's all relative. You don't achieve anything with being nice all the time. If it was me I would use all possible (allowed) tricks to get that win. Mental tricks is not the same as cheating btw.

fifiricci
Aug 6th, 2003, 12:52 PM
I think J took the medical time out for a brainwash top up.

maccardel
Aug 6th, 2003, 01:51 PM
It is all too obvious that Kim is questioning Justine's integrity just as Serena did at the FO. They must have showed that hand a thousand times at Wimby to the entire world. When a thief is in your house and something is missing who does all eyes focus on even if they did not steal anything? Sour grapes from Kim, rush to judgement on the thief....... maybe. :cool:
My point exactly..........

bandabou
Aug 6th, 2003, 01:53 PM
Kim the queen of the come ons is mad at Justine because Justine said allez?! :rolleyes: Pluuuuzzzz!!! Fact is Justine has become more mentally strong than Kim and better at closing out matches. Funny how whenever Kim doesn´t beat a player in a slam, Justine goes out and beat that player. Kim couldn´t beat Jen at the´01 French but Justine beats Jen at Wimby. Then this year Kim can´t close the deal against Serena and Justine beats Serena twice including the French semi´s.....

Hmm, it´s like Justine wants to show Kim how it should be done!! :lol: :lol:

fleemke³
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:31 PM
mmm maybe Kim has to watch Hewitt match again against Corretja were he shouted it out bij 6-0 5-0 :rolleyes: THAT WAS POOR SPORTMANSHIP
Kim's fist or Justine's Allez damn wtf is wrong with that :eek:

nicky
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:51 PM
Fleem, Kim never said she was annoyed by the "Allez". One of the posters (can't recall who, and won't bother to find out) said this.


And this is the problem all along. One sentence from (either) player get's commented upon by posters, and other posters react, and in the end it looks like the players have made all these remarks, where as they didn't! People are making far too much from all this stuff :rolleyes: (this last remark not being directed at Fleemke², just in general - for all clarity)

fleemke³
Aug 6th, 2003, 03:54 PM
And the San Diego was just the last straw… Kim took the first set and Justine suddenly asks a medical time-out. Ok Justine had the right to do that… And I think that wasn’t the real problem for Kim… But after that medical time out, she didn't seemed to be bothered at all and it was just like Justine wanted to “wreck” Kim… She suddenly was very aggressive and had a very hostile look in her eyes. She shouted her ALLEZ on moments that you don’t do if you have a little bit sportsmanship. When Kim made a stupid error for example. And I think that was bothering her much more than the time-out itself. Also the quote “Sometimes she was limping after a point that she lost, then next point she was running all the balls down. Those were like little signs where I thought maybe she's faking it a little bit” is very true… And she don’t say she was faking, she thought it and anyone may think what they want…



Nicky it was a reaction on this part and not direct to Kim ;) but I get your point and I'll be carefull ok :kiss: