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Volcana
Aug 4th, 2003, 11:25 PM
Obviously, I'm a Williams fan.

The down side of Venus vs Serena is that neither of them can be emotionally whole hearted, and it affects their games.

The upside is every match there are points that literally no other two players in history could have produced, the tennis is so fast, so acrobatic, so ...beyond.

So I'm a fan of the spectacular point. Which means, naturally, I saw some stuff I liked in the San Diego final. A particular fave was Justine's answer to Kim playing ten feet behind the baseline. Justine repeatedly pulled Kim out wide, and drop-shotted her. Half the time, Kim reached the ball, and that's when the spectacle started. Drop shot might beget dropshot. Or lob. Or an attempt at a slick angled pass. Forcing Justine to find an improvisation. Good stuff.

So Kim vs Justine goes on my watch list, just for the fun of it.

Serena vs Justine has all the drama that Venus vs Justine lacks.

So gee, if the four best players on the tour play on another, there are some good points. Very insightful.

So what matchups OUGHT to produce good tennis?

What matchup, if you saw if was going to be televised, would make you sit down and watch because of the STYLE that was going to be played? For example, Tim Henman vs Mark Phillipoussis. (Serve-and-volley vs Chip-and-charge). You may not care for the players, but the tennis cold be both top shelf and of a type rarely seen.

I keep hoping to see Daja Bedanova vs Elena Dementieva but good luck THAT matchup ever being televised in the States.

Mauresmo vs Schnyder on clay.

Martina Navratilova vs Conchi (Seriously)

Amanda Coetzer vs Alexandra Stevenson - Maybe, just maybe, after Amanda handed Alex her head, she'd get in shape. What a waste of genetics. If she's going to be 40 pounds over weight, she could just be me, instead Dr. J's daughter.

Just to name a few. What would YOU like to see? Because of the way the tennis is played, NOT cause she's your fave.

▀coene
Aug 4th, 2003, 11:48 PM
I like Clijsters vs Davenport very much. Davenport is one of the cleanest and hardest hitters but Kim manages to bring almost all balls back with her great defence.

I didn't see their last match-up.

CJ07
Aug 4th, 2003, 11:59 PM
hmm, Kim Clijsters vs. Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario back in the day

shap_half
Aug 5th, 2003, 12:07 AM
just for the drama factor i choose justine vs. serena - but also very good because one is always trying to outdo the other.
justine vs. kim also produces some good tennis (berlin final) and now with the supposed "bad blood" it'll probably get better
serena vs. jenn is also good.

greg▓
Aug 5th, 2003, 12:09 AM
Justine versus Jennifer. Always exciting three-setters :yeah:

treufreund
Aug 5th, 2003, 12:16 AM
henin vs mauresmo

disposablehero
Aug 5th, 2003, 12:46 AM
Kim vs Serena. Usually the best points are the ones where Kim is deep on the defensive but won't give Serena anything good enough to hit a winner off of.

liuxuan
Aug 5th, 2003, 12:57 AM
Serena vs Jen makes the most exciting points of the current day.

However, nthing beats the battles and spectacular points between Venus and Hingis back in the day. Venus and Linzi can also have unbelievable points when Linzi is on her game.

Fingon
Aug 5th, 2003, 01:25 AM
good topic :)

I think Volcana is referring to both, thrilling matches despite quality and matches where the players surprise you with their technical repertory.

I am more for the technical beauties of the game than for the thrilling part.

What players produce that kind of tennis? I would like to see Kim and Justine based on the third set of the San Diego match, others of their matches haven't but this one showed what they are capable off.

They match up well because one is an offensive players with a good defense (Justine), and the other is a defensive player with a good offense (Kim).

Justine likes to attack, be aggressive and excels on that, but she can play defensively when she needs to.

Kim tends more to return every ball, but she is amazing turning a defensive shot into an offensive one, and when she moves forward, she is nearly unstoppable.

Justine has to hit extra shots to win points against Kim, that forces her to try something different.

Kim knows if she gets Justine a short ball, the point will be over, so she needs to put everything on every shot.

Both players are technically capable of improvising and both can hit all the shots in the book.

There are other great match ups but I leave them for a later time :)

cool bird
Aug 5th, 2003, 01:25 AM
I think Venus and Kim have some great point. Venus and Davenport.
Serena and Jen
I do think Venus and Justine will have some good matches now Justine has improved so much as a player

TylerDurden
Aug 5th, 2003, 01:31 AM
Venus and Lindsay? Their matches show everything that's wrong with modern tennis: quick, error-filled points and unreturnable serves. They don't match up well at all. Ugly stuff. Actually, Venus tends to win ugly against a lot of players, because the form on her shots is so painful to watch and she hits the ball very late, and thus all her shots go down the line, so I can't really think of any classic rivalries that Venus had. Unless of course you include Hingis, who produced classic matches against every top player she played.

jbone_0307
Aug 5th, 2003, 01:40 AM
Venus vs Davenport
Serena vs Jennifer Capriati
Jennifer Capriati vs Jelena Dokic
Venus vs Justine Henin

tennisIlove09
Aug 5th, 2003, 01:45 AM
Venus vs. Martina Hingis was ALWAYS interesting
Serena vs. Jennifer have been interesting, but seems to be lacking currently.

Justine vs. Mauresmo would be interesting...both are great at the net. And Kim vs. Mauresmo too.

cool bird
Aug 5th, 2003, 01:47 AM
Well i do have to ask did you not see the Wimbledon QF that was a good tennis matches.
I must say i have always thought Venus takes the ball pretty early myself. And she does not just go down the line.
Venus Williams can hit every shot there is and has proved that many times

TylerDurden
Aug 5th, 2003, 01:55 AM
Clearly she cannot. :lol: I need not mention certain shots that Venus is unable to produce because you alreadly know what they are.

cool bird
Aug 5th, 2003, 02:01 AM
If you watch a Venus Williams match when she PLAYING WELL she can play them all. (the only shot i dont see her play is the top spin lob)
dr

Volcana
Aug 5th, 2003, 02:07 AM
Clearly she cannot. :lol: I need not mention certain shots that Venus is unable to produce because you alreadly know what they are.

Youneed not mention them because those shots don't exist. Martina said hitting with Venus or Serena they could both hit any shot you named. I'm taking her as a better authority than you. Also, I have eyes. Try opening yours.

tennisIlove09
Aug 5th, 2003, 02:08 AM
Clearly she cannot. :lol: I need not mention certain shots that Venus is unable to produce because you alreadly know what they are.

Wanna see Venus hit every shot? Watch 2 matches:

1-her QF victory over Hingis at the 2000 Wimbledon

and

2-her SF victory over Hingis at the 2000 US Open

Vegetable
Aug 5th, 2003, 02:13 AM
I've said in the past I dislike all Williams finals, and I do... but in that recent Wimbledon final there were points played that would not have been possible between any other two players. Some were absolutely fantastic

Ryan
Aug 5th, 2003, 03:31 AM
Engh, all Williams finals can produce some nice rallies, before someone sends it ten feet long.

Jennifer Capriati vs. Monica Seles is really entertaining, so is Jennifer vs. Lindsay.


Spectacular points, Justine vs. Serena recently takes the cake.

Gowza
Aug 5th, 2003, 03:34 AM
zvonareva and venus had some terrific points at RG. but then at wimbledon it wasn't all that good so i guess on clay tehy are going to have some great matches in the future.

liuxuan
Aug 5th, 2003, 03:37 AM
Spectacular points, Justine vs. Serena recently takes the cake.

in that wimby SF i think on a couple of occasions, Serena produced power tennis to a level which i have never witnessed before. It was unbelievable.

SM
Aug 5th, 2003, 04:46 AM
*Capriati vs Dokic
*Seles vs Clijsters

TylerDurden
Aug 5th, 2003, 05:48 AM
Youneed not mention them because those shots don't exist. Martina said hitting with Venus or Serena they could both hit any shot you named. I'm taking her as a better authority than you. Also, I have eyes. Try opening yours.

Good for Hingis. But what was Hingis going to say when a member of the press asks her if the Williams sisters can hit all the shots, especially when she reached her politically-correct age of 21 and lost to them the last few times she played them?

I take it that many here enjoy the sport of tennis, but do not play. We've all seen how hideous they hit dropshots. Their lobs are hit with very little topspin and often land meters beyond the baseline. They flat out cannot volley (and taking a big fat swing at a high, floating puffball is not a volley) and they rarely slice ("the Williams chop" is a more correct term). How two technically terrible players, Venus especially, manage to dominate women's tennis speaks either for their incredible athleticism or the weak competition they play, possibly both.

Venus Forever
Aug 5th, 2003, 06:18 AM
Good for Hingis. But what was Hingis going to say when a member of the press asks her if the Williams sisters can hit all the shots, especially when she reached her politically-correct age of 21 and lost to them the last few times she played them?

I take it that many here enjoy the sport of tennis, but do not play. We've all seen how hideous they hit dropshots. Their lobs are hit with very little topspin and often land meters beyond the baseline. They flat out cannot volley (and taking a big fat swing at a high, floating puffball is not a volley) and they rarely slice ("the Williams chop" is a more correct term). How two technically terrible players, Venus especially, manage to dominate women's tennis speaks either for their incredible athleticism or the weak competition they play, possibly both.

You can't say they are not good at these aspects because that is not their game.

We can talk about how Martina can't finish points quickly. We can talk about how she can't put anything on the ball, no speed, no whatever. That's not her game.

Just as it is not Venus and Serena's game to slice, dropshot, and lob. Those are shots they use. They win with other methods, just as Hingis won with different methods.

There are different styles of play, and dropshot, lobs, and slice are just not the Williams' play. Just as Hingis doesn't like to hit hard and go for her shots, the Williams don't like to dropshot, etc.

Venus can't volley?? You must be delusional. If you saw the Stubbs / Morariu, you would know how well Venus volleys.

Serena, on the otherhand... :rolleyes: :o

AjdeNate!
Aug 5th, 2003, 06:25 AM
Seles v. Capriati
Serena v. Jennifer

Sprem v. Safina (always tiebreaks involved)

skanky~skanketta
Aug 5th, 2003, 10:14 AM
jennifer-justine...its really amazing how these tow fight.

justine-serena...two very different players, but their strenghts are almost the same. both have good serves and good returns. both have the setup backhand(or the backhand that pushes the opponent into submission) and a trememdous forehand. and there's so much drama you feel bad when one loses.

CamilleVidann
Aug 5th, 2003, 10:22 AM
Without a doubt, Conchita Martinez versus Tatiana Panova or Anna Smashnova
I have seen so many spectacular points in their match-ups.

Grafan
Aug 5th, 2003, 10:25 AM
hignis-capriati
hingis-any williams
jennfier-serena
jennifer-clijsters

graf-seles
graf-sanchez vicario

Glenn
Aug 5th, 2003, 10:40 AM
Hingis - Henin-Hardenne.

See for yourself: http://users.pandora.be/guga/henin02.avi

Volcana
Aug 5th, 2003, 01:07 PM
How two technically terrible players, Venus especially, manage to dominate women's tennis speaks either for their incredible athleticism or the weak competition they play, possibly both.

A third, and likelier possibility, is that you're a terrible judge of tennis ability, the people who say the tour is deeper and better than ever are right, and Venus and Serena are both highly skilled and well trained, as well as being great athletes, and that's why they beat everybody else most of the time.

That fits the facts far better than either scenario you pose.

hingis-seles
Aug 5th, 2003, 01:36 PM
Hingis-V.Williams

Seles-Graf

The most entertaining rallies I have seen in a match were in the 1993 Australian Open final between Monica and Steffi. I also thought the points in the 1999 and 2000 semifinals of the US Open between Martina and Venus were amazing!

croat123
Aug 5th, 2003, 02:22 PM
Sprem vs. Torrens Valero ;)

bandabou
Aug 5th, 2003, 02:46 PM
Any match involving Serena can produce great points. It┤s clear and obvious that Serena┤s the most entertaining player out there. Look at some of the best matches in recent years and you can almost see her name in it.

Infiniti2001
Aug 5th, 2003, 04:51 PM
Volcana I don't mean to interrupt your thread , but haven't you guys realized that TylerDurden is none other that 5 0's?? He can change names all he wants, but I know him like the back of my hand :lol:

TylerDurden
Aug 5th, 2003, 08:38 PM
A third, and likelier possibility, is that you're a terrible judge of tennis ability,

Again, I play tennis every single day. I have a hard time imagining you as a tennis player, rather, I'm sure I could get you to shut your mouth with a nice, fat, chocolate glazed donut. Eat up!

the people who say the tour is deeper and better than ever are right, and Venus and Serena are both highly skilled and well trained, as well as being great athletes, and that's why they beat everybody else most of the time.

Oh? The tour is no better than it was in 99. After all, Venus was a more consistent player in 1999 and her first and second serve were much better back then, and she still couldn't muster up a Slam. Old wash-ups who are getting slower, fatter, and weaker such as Coetzer, Maleeva, and Martinez are on the brink of the top 10. Capriati is back to the same level she was at in 2000, and yet despite her consistently declining tennis ability, she hovers right outside the top 5 and likely won't budge anytime soon. Davenport is going to be the #3 seed at the US Open, almost the same as she was 5 years ago, yet she is a pathetic shadow of her former self. Players like Rubin and Sugiyama jump in ranking despite having the same game they did ages ago, the #2
ranked player in the world is a choke-artist, and players such as Anastasia Myskina, bless her soul, don't belong anywhere near the top 10.

Yet the competition is better now than it was 5 years ago? Right. To make your case even worse, in the late 90s there were counter-punchers (Coetzer), serve-and-volleyers (Novatna), slow power players (Seles, Davenport, Pierce), fast power players (the Williams sisters), Steffi Graf, and all-court players (Hingis, Tauziat) at the top of the game. So in order to win, you had to be capable of defeating a multitude of well-executed styles.

But what do Venus and Serena have to beat to win today?

Going by the rankings,

#1. A power player
#2. A power player
#3. A n all-court, power player
#4. A power player
#5. A power player
#6. A power player
#7. A power player
#8. A power player
#9. A power player
#10. A power player

How difficult.

DEETHELICK
Aug 5th, 2003, 08:47 PM
Jen vs Serena. This year at Wimby, they had a 31 stroke rally, and it was amazing the gets they were both making as well as the pure power they were displaying.

Venus vs Hingis - Enough said

Elena D vs Kim Clijsters - I have seen two of their matches and they were magnificent. The movement, the shots, the power and angles were all amazing. Here's hoping they play soon.

Mauresmo when on vs any top player. Her game is such that is versus anyone, she can create spectacular points.

Joseosu19
Aug 5th, 2003, 09:14 PM
current days
Justine vs Serena
Jennifer vs Serena

Steffi vs Arantxa

alfajeffster
Aug 5th, 2003, 09:15 PM
Hingis[/color], Tauziat) at the top of the game. So in order to win, you had to be capable of defeating a multitude of well-executed styles.

But what do Venus and Serena have to beat to win today?

Going by the rankings,

#1. A power player
#2. A power player
#3. A n all-court, power player
#4. A power player
#5. A power player
#6. A power player
#7. A power player
#8. A power player
#9. A power player
#10. A power player

How difficult.

This is the most accurate assessment of the state of womens' tennis I have read so far. The only top player who executes a variety of shots regularly is Justine Henin-Hardenne, and it's a shame that the serve-and-volley game died with Jana Novotna!

IT'S TIME FOR A REVOLUTION/EVOLUTION INTO AN ALL-COURT GAME!!!

Ballbuster
Aug 5th, 2003, 09:41 PM
Good for Hingis. But what was Hingis going to say when a member of the press asks her if the Williams sisters can hit all the shots, especially when she reached her politically-correct age of 21 and lost to them the last few times she played them?

I take it that many here enjoy the sport of tennis, but do not play. We've all seen how hideous they hit dropshots. Their lobs are hit with very little topspin and often land meters beyond the baseline. They flat out cannot volley (and taking a big fat swing at a high, floating puffball is not a volley) and they rarely slice ("the Williams chop" is a more correct term). How two technically terrible players, Venus especially, manage to dominate women's tennis speaks either for their incredible athleticism or the weak competition they play, possibly both.

BUT WHO IS WINNING THE SLAMS!!!!!

Do you know of anybody better?

Hot 92 Jamz
Aug 5th, 2003, 09:49 PM
Kim vs. Jennifer; Justine vs. Serena; Lindsay vs. Venus

http://images.viacomlocalnetworks.com/images_image_191131211

Ballbuster
Aug 5th, 2003, 09:51 PM
Don't blame Serena because she can hit an OUTRIGHT WINNER!!!!

Blame this weak-AZZ tour......your argument is Moot!

Knizzle
Aug 5th, 2003, 09:52 PM
Good for Hingis. But what was Hingis going to say when a member of the press asks her if the Williams sisters can hit all the shots, especially when she reached her politically-correct age of 21 and lost to them the last few times she played them?

I take it that many here enjoy the sport of tennis, but do not play. We've all seen how hideous they hit dropshots. Their lobs are hit with very little topspin and often land meters beyond the baseline. They flat out cannot volley (and taking a big fat swing at a high, floating puffball is not a volley) and they rarely slice ("the Williams chop" is a more correct term). How two technically terrible players, Venus especially, manage to dominate women's tennis speaks either for their incredible athleticism or the weak competition they play, possibly both.

First off Venus' feathery touch on her forehand drop shot is lethal, just ask Hingis and especially Davenport because Venus used it in beating bothe of them. Venus doesn't use many dropshots these day, but the dropshots she hit at Wimbledon were spectacular. Serena's dropshot does need some practice, but she has shown that she can hit it well. Venus hits good traditional volleys, and swinging volleys are volleys too, you are just saying this because they do it better than anyone else. Serena's traditional volley is at its best in doubles, but she has trouble with it in singles. Hingis said this because she KNOWS the Williams sisters having played them 32 total times, she picked up on then what is obvious to us today. that the Williams can do it all.

cool bird
Aug 5th, 2003, 10:19 PM
Yeah the top ten is about power players. But it is not all about power.To be a top player you need some coyrt craft to
I watched Venus 1st round match at the US Open last year.
Now the girl she was playing was hitting the ball hard prob harder then Venus but she did not have a clue where she was hitting it there was no control at all. And she got beat 60 60
So there is a skill to hitting the ball hard