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strato
Jun 16th, 2003, 01:06 PM
Which player do you think is the most intelligent or cultivated on the WTA Tour ?
Any information about some players' IQ (QI), nb of langages they speak, studies, etc...

caramel
Jun 16th, 2003, 01:07 PM
That´s what I´ve been asking myself all the time,too! LOL

seldom83
Jun 16th, 2003, 01:09 PM
yeh that would be interesting

Cybelle Darkholme
Jun 16th, 2003, 01:12 PM
I think knowing a number of languages is very impressive however I fail to see how that is such a big indicator of intelligence. If one grew up in a country like Switzerland where three for four languages are spoken it would be NORMAL to learn those languages. So if you are swiss speak three languages and then never attend high school or college how in the world are you supposedly more intelligent than someone who did attend but only speaks one language?

schris
Jun 16th, 2003, 01:13 PM
Anna Kournikova ? ;)

MartinaI
Jun 16th, 2003, 01:15 PM
Martina H speaks Swiss-German, high German, Czech, English, French and a bit of Spanish. She is also now taking a business and english language correspondence course with Cambridge University. Her style of tennis was also really intelligent. I read too that as a kid she really enjoyed matchs and history at school and always got As especially in trigonometry!!

Id on't think there are any known IQ tests to players, but they are not very accurate becasue they only measure one type of intelligence which is based on logical thinking, hence it tends to be biased towards male intelligence.

mauresmofan
Jun 16th, 2003, 01:16 PM
Anna K is the only sports person ever to make more money and become more famous away from her sport than achieve great things in it. So in a way YES she is very intelligent!

caramel
Jun 16th, 2003, 01:17 PM
So...now that Anna K. is the most intelligent WTA player, who´s #2 ? :confused:

Cybelle Darkholme
Jun 16th, 2003, 01:18 PM
so women can't be logical? How much biased crap is that? Please tell me you don't actually believe that drivel. Though I do agree that there are different ways to measure intelligence. Just because one has a degree does not neccessarily indicate intelligence. Just look at our President.

strato
Jun 16th, 2003, 01:21 PM
Cybelle, I agree with you, I just wrote "intelligent" as a general term.

I thought this topic would differs from "Who has the biggest boobs" or "Who has the greatest legs" ! ;)

XMan
Jun 16th, 2003, 01:22 PM
Knowing many languages is indeed not really an indicator of intelligence. You normally learn a language by using it frequently. The memory plays a much bigger role then analytical insight. I think the later is a better indicator of intelligence.

fifiricci
Jun 16th, 2003, 01:24 PM
Well lets face it, none of them are very educated are they, their life has been a tennis court, which hardly stretches the mind. Having said that, I am sure that many of the players are innately intelligent.

fifiricci
Jun 16th, 2003, 01:25 PM
so women can't be logical? How much biased crap is that? Please tell me you don't actually believe that drivel. Though I do agree that there are different ways to measure intelligence. Just because one has a degree does not neccessarily indicate intelligence. Just look at our President.

Do I have to look at your President? His stupidity scares the shit out of me.

sartrista7
Jun 16th, 2003, 01:29 PM
Well lets face it, none of them are very educated are they, their life has been a tennis court, which hardly stretches the mind. Having said that, I am sure that many of the players are innately intelligent.

Troof. A few of them have degrees - Vanessa Webb and Anne Kremer certainly - but knowing students, it's not as if that means much either.

sartrista7
Jun 16th, 2003, 01:34 PM
Oh, though... her stellar result today has just reminded me that Amanda Janes took three years out of tennis to do an English degree at Cambridge, which seems to suggest some sort of brain at least. She's ranked in the 500s and has just qualified for Eastbourne.

XMan
Jun 16th, 2003, 01:36 PM
Well lets face it, none of them are very educated are they, their life has been a tennis court, which hardly stretches the mind. Having said that, I am sure that many of the players are innately intelligent.

Intelligence is for a big part something you are born with. A player like Justine Henin-Hardenne always combined very good school results with her tennis career so I do think that there are many intelligent players. They may not have all the knowledge of a university student but they remain intelligent.

MarcusRock
Jun 16th, 2003, 01:38 PM
LOL. I find it funny that there are more posts debating intelligence than actual players being named. I guess most of you don't believe in the brain power of players, huh?

moby
Jun 16th, 2003, 02:44 PM
I think martina is really smart

throw me maths, iq tests or anything that requires "analytic insight". but i think languages are very difficult to master. i cant imagine anyone being good at so many languages.

and yes i do think its a gender issue

i dont believe that intelligence is something you are born with though. i think we all start off at about the same level and individual variations depend on env. factors etc. what i can imagine though is that curiousity and the desire to explore is "genetic", and this can be taught, but its often taught too late.

that, i believe is the way in which individuals vary in their intelligence, because personal exploration is a very important part to gathering intelligence. and that is certainly something martina has shown on the tennis courts.

irma
Jun 16th, 2003, 02:59 PM
easy I don't know if people are all born at the same level(otherwise there would not be special schools). I am convinced though that other stufs plays a big part too. when you feel great you will do better in school then when you uncertain and afraid to mess up all the time :o

fifiricci
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:02 PM
Troof. A few of them have degrees - Vanessa Webb and Anne Kremer certainly - but knowing students, it's not as if that means much either.

Yes, but what kind of degrees are you talking about?

Sports degrees?

barmaid
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:14 PM
Martina H speaks Swiss-German, high German, Czech, English, French and a bit of Spanish. She is also now taking a business and english language correspondence course with Cambridge University. Her style of tennis was also really intelligent. I read too that as a kid she really enjoyed matchs and history at school and always got As especially in trigonometry!!

Id on't think there are any known IQ tests to players, but they are not very accurate becasue they only measure one type of intelligence which is based on logical thinking, hence it tends to be biased towards male intelligence.


Does the word "genius" overqualify Martina for this category? Many people have said that about her including Billie Jean King so for me Martina is the only one who "fills that bill"!! :hearts: :kiss:

barmaid :wavey:

TS
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:19 PM
Well I'm sure Alexandra "Descartes" Stevenson would like us to believe it is her...

...but anyway, who really cares.

Hagar
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:26 PM
From the way Justine speaks (large vocabulary, well explained thoughts), I find her really intelligent.

Vincent
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:26 PM
Look @ the fire in Justine's eyes, she may be an intelligent girl. Martina would be another outstanding person.:)

irma
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:29 PM
about the logical thinking. can anybody explaun me what that has to do with intelligence? I mean I am a complex person, I always think difficult so how I can do well in logical thinking? so when I do such a test they say I am stupid (well that's not really true but I am always scared for that when I make such a test)

Midnite Surfer
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:34 PM
I don't think any of us can really know who is the most intelligent. I think a few of the names would be Hingis, Venus, Lindsay, Chanda, Tanasugarn seems to have a quick mind as well.

On the men's side I would go with Todd Martin, Agassi and Blake.

I agree about the language thing. You can speak every language there is in the world and still have nothing of importance to say.

Vincent
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:34 PM
about the logical thinking. can anybody explaun me what that has to do with intelligence? I mean I am a complex person, I always think difficult so how I can do well in logical thinking? so when I do such a test they say I am stupid (well that's not really true but I am always scared for that when I make such a test)
Irma, you are not a complex person but a normal great one.
Here is my guess....
Well, practise makes perfect, i think someone can be trained to have a better logical thinking(such as Maths exercises), while intelligence is natural born, is that called 'talent'?

*JR*
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:43 PM
Nathalie Dechy

JR NICKNAME
Placid Parisian ;)



AWARDS/ACCOMPLISHMENTS
• In juniors, won Orange Bowl 16s singles and French Nationals 16s singles and doubles; finalist at Australian Open
• WTA Tour mentor was Karine Quentrec-Eagle in the Partners for Success Alumni program

PERSONAL
Coached by Georges Goven and her father, Michel Dechy...A baseline player whose favorite surface is hard; favorite shot is the overhead...Mother, Francoise, who is French-Canadian, is a sport teacher; father Michel teaches math and tennis; has a younger sister, Isabelle, and an older brother, Nicolas...Entire family plays tennis...Born on the French isle of Guadeloupe...Graduated from high school two years early, in 1995... Enjoys good food, chocolate and wine...Likes spending time with children and her good friends...Favorite tournament is Montreal.

irma
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:44 PM
emotional intelligence is much more important anyway. I mean when you are decent smart learning wise you can work your ass off and then do well even when certain things are not really your best subject, when you are emotional not strong then it's much harder to fight through it.

at least that's my experience!

SJW
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:45 PM
yea the "for sure"s make her the bench mark IMO :rolleyes:

are we talking about intellectual-smart or just worldly smart?

Anna Kournikova is the most intelligent person in tennis. anyone who can make that much money ranked in the 70s or whatever is my idol

moby
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:54 PM
the thing is how can we tell its "natural born". sometimes it's just early age nuturing and eventually it translates to greater intelligence.

so it seems like you are born with it

BigTennisFan
Jun 16th, 2003, 04:00 PM
so women can't be logical? How much biased crap is that? Please tell me you don't actually believe that drivel. Though I do agree that there are different ways to measure intelligence. Just because one has a degree does not neccessarily indicate intelligence. Just look at our President.

Or at Ted "leave 'em dead" Kennedy. :D

Martian Willow
Jun 16th, 2003, 04:18 PM
about the logical thinking. can anybody explaun me what that has to do with intelligence?

I guess it's to do with different kinds of intelligence, as MartinaI says. Certain kinds of intelligence are characterised by logical thinking - problem solving, rhetoric (ie the ability to construct or deconstruct arguments, like philosophers and lawyers), mathematics, but there are others which specifically don't, ie 'creative' intelligence, such as the ability to 'think laterally', or 'think outside the box' etc.

I don't think much of IQ tests myself (and not because I'm rubbish at them: I've never taken one), so I can't see how we can know who the smartest player is. Alexandra Stevenson is apparently studying philosophy, but we don't know if she's any good at it. Especially if her essays keep getting nicked. In the end it's just a matter of perception: Martina Hingis always seemed really smart to me, but I can't really say why.

DA FOREHAND
Jun 16th, 2003, 04:21 PM
Because she has a big ass forehead?

RAA
Jun 16th, 2003, 04:24 PM
[QUOTE=TS]Well I'm sure Alexandra "Descartes" Stevenson would like us to believe it is her...

QUOTE]

:D
okay, that really made me laugh.

Joseosu19
Jun 16th, 2003, 04:27 PM
Arantxa is fluient in 6 languages I believe.

Martian Willow
Jun 16th, 2003, 04:41 PM
Because she has a big ass forehead?

Could be, although when I first read it I thought it said forehand, which left me a little :confused:

Kart
Jun 16th, 2003, 04:41 PM
Troof. A few of them have degrees - Vanessa Webb and Anne Kremer certainly - but knowing students, it's not as if that means much either.

So true ...

irma
Jun 16th, 2003, 04:46 PM
why are philosophers seen as so intelligent. I mean berkely(I think it was him) said he didn't know he was real or a dream. hello I can make that up too;)

I love philosophy though. I really want to study it when my life is on track again!

irma
Jun 16th, 2003, 04:50 PM
or plato with his idea after any thing

sounds more like he was schizophrenic :o ;)

maybe socrates didn't even excist and he was a personality plato created;)

Gandalf
Jun 16th, 2003, 05:01 PM
From the interviews I've read, Lindsay comes across as the most intelligent to me.

CondiLicious
Jun 16th, 2003, 05:07 PM
Anna is the most intelligent.

Berlin_Calling
Jun 16th, 2003, 05:09 PM
How bout those Stanford players like Laura Granville?

joaco
Jun 16th, 2003, 05:30 PM
For me the two most intelligent ones are: Lindsay, and Martina .

Not because Lindsay is my fave, but because she always finds insightful answers in her interviews, she just doesn't say ANYTHING. Besides, she was smart enough to finish highschool and continue with her studies.
Martina, once I was told that an intelligent person was inmediately shown in a tennis court, due to the capacity that the person has to solve problems, situations in the tennis court. Wasn't Martina called the one who puzzled her opponents, she was quick and always found a new, fast way to everything.
You are born being smart, intelligent, it is not something you can acquire.

Still, it is very hard to determine who's the most intelligent. We we'll never have an answer, I believe that all the girls in the Top are REALLY intelligent, caus eif not they wouldn't be there. I mean, how many others are below them, they are unique...

Joaco

propi
Jun 16th, 2003, 08:35 PM
ÁNgeles Montolío has a degree in German Filology I think

ksgyh
Jun 16th, 2003, 11:58 PM
OK, someone, break this down. First of all, I agree with all of you who say education has nothing to do with intelligence. Education is upbringing and money. As for IQ, I feel that is more innate in terms of maximum potential, and environment can either foster or destroy that potential. Street smarts and media saavy are another thing. You can gather someone's IQ, street smarts and media saavy by listening to how they talk, how they respond to situations, etc. Business sense is yet another. Last but not least for this topic, tennis smarts, the on-court sense of where the ball is, what to do with it. So having broken that down for myself, b/c in the world of tennis, all the top players are successful, but I wouldn't necessary label them as successful in the "intelligence" arena.

1) IQ. Really really hard to say, b/c I rarely hear the players speak of topics that require thought, as opposed to just reciting opinions and facts. "I played well today. She was up 5-1 in the 2nd set, but I came back. So yeah, I'm happy to have won." Difficult to ascertain actual ability to comprehend the world with those kinds of responses. Justine, Lindsay, and Chanda tend to be a few who proclaim the least amount of ridiculously inane comments, though, in general.

2) Street smarts and media saavy. Lindsay seems to make sense when she talks. She doesn't just blabber. She's even-keeled and intuitive in the way her opinions and the way she expresses them. Same goes for Monica.

3) Business sense. Anna is successful b/c she has an "intelligent" team that knows how to maximize all her assets, call them what you will. She is the Britney Spears of the tennis world. Poor quality product when it comes to athletic/artistic merit, but milking it for all it's worth, which is *millions*.

4) Tennis smarts. Martina Hingis, without hesitation or doubt. She is so completely in tune with the court, the ball, her opponent, her strategy. She is the chess champions of all recent tennis players.

The rest of the players, I generally tend to think of as mediocre in all of these players, not leaning too far towards one pole or the other, although some do lean more towards the low IQ, no street smarts, no media saavy, low marketability, or stupid tennis strategy. I cannot imagine a single player that had not one type of intelligence to adequate abundance, because it would be amazing that she could even survive in the WTA.

Lisbeth
Jun 17th, 2003, 12:43 AM
I read, I think in a Wertheim column, that one of the Americans, I think Laura Granville, had a really good degree - but that's not necessarily the only predictor because you can;t really develop your tennis career and go to college in most countries, possibly only if you live in (or are preapred to move to) the USA.

Kim speaks at least 4 languages, Martina I believe 6. While it's true that living in Europe enables you to learn more, it's still pretty darn clever to be able to give speeches and interviews fluently in your 5th language, if you ask me.

I remember Richard Williams once announced that Venus is a genius! Seriously, I think Venus is very clever.

Lindsay probably has the best thought out opinions of the top 10 so I would say she is intelligent too.

Actually, with a few notable exceptions, you don't often get to the top of a sport like tennis without a good brain on you.

FrankWo
Jun 19th, 2003, 10:59 AM
Players will show their real intelligence, when their oncourt-time is over ..., ... in the quality, they understand to manage their new way of life.
With greetings, FrankWo.

Gallofa
Jun 19th, 2003, 11:18 AM
I agree with ksgyh. Great post! :D - I can't really tell who are the most intelligent people on the tour, but from reading a few of their interviews, I would say Navratilova, Stubbs, Davenport, Kournikova and Venus Williams come across as the ones with less inane things to say.

Of course, speaking a language does not mean anything in terms of how intelligent you are, but I think being truly proficient in it shows a certain degree of talent/skill. Some people spend their whole lives living in a different country and they never speak a word of the foreign language. So it at least shows interest in learning and curiosity, which are parts of intelligence.

In this sense, most of the players that speak english as their mother tongue tend to come across as more intelligent, only because they are more fluent. Now, those that speaking english as their first language and still struggle to communicate are the ones that worry me a bit ;)

And Plato did make Socrates up :p

griffin
Jun 19th, 2003, 02:00 PM
Considering the questions they get asked, I would never take interviews as a good evidence of a player's intellect on the whole :p

Gallofa
Jun 19th, 2003, 02:04 PM
Considering the questions they get asked, I would never take interviews as a good evidence of a player's intellect on the whole :p

Working that logic in an inverse way, that's why I'd say coming across as something brighter than thick as a brick could be taken as a sign of superior intelligence ;)

Experimentee
Jun 19th, 2003, 02:17 PM
Tamarine Tanasugarn has a law degree. I think that shows shes intelligent.
Also Venus and Ai Sugiyama run their own businesses, so those are two more intelligent people.

But there are so many different concepts of intelligence, knowing languages can be one type of intelligence, as well as having common sense or having an advanced education or doing well on IQ tests. Memory is a big part of intelligence, logical reasoning and verbal abilities all involve cognitive functions like memory.
There are people who do very well on tests but cant express their ideas very well verbally so those are another example of different types of intelligence. It all comes down to how we define intelligence, which no one has been able to agree on yet.

oddkayla
Jun 19th, 2003, 02:19 PM
Venus, Martina H. These two are quite intelligent. I think Ai is also very smart. I also believe Elena Dementieva is very intelligent, as well as Amelie. Actually I think Amelie might be too smart for her own good. Sometimes being too intelligent can be intefere with a player's game as they can overanalyse, over-strategise and think too much about it. The same logic applies to Todd Martin and James Blake. Sometimes your mind needs to be free so that you stop thinking of ifs/whens and maybes and just focus on the ball

Ryan
Jun 19th, 2003, 02:19 PM
Well, no one mentioned Venus and Serena. Maybe they dont have the typical "smarts", but they're very good at balancing their lives. I mean, fashion school/design company and professional tennis player? That takes some brains to work out.

Experimentee
Jun 19th, 2003, 02:28 PM
Well Serena does some acting too, it does take a lot of intelligence to act. You need to have a good memory, bodily awareness and emotional empathy.

Ryan
Jun 19th, 2003, 04:26 PM
Yeah, I completely forgot Serena did some acting, lol. But don't forget, there have been bucket-loads of stupid actors too. ;)

Experimentee
Jun 19th, 2003, 04:35 PM
Yeah, I completely forgot Serena did some acting, lol. But don't forget, there have been bucket-loads of stupid actors too. ;)

lol i find that the stupid ones arent any good at acting in the first place and are only there because of their looks in the first place. Most good actors actually seem really intelligent in interviews too. It must be their good language skills.

Jamie
Jun 22nd, 2003, 07:06 AM
Martina Hingisis not brawny, she is the brainy.

vs1
Jun 22nd, 2003, 07:07 AM
That player would be VENUS WILLIAMS. :worship:

JPV
Jun 22nd, 2003, 08:03 AM
I think martina is really smart

throw me maths, iq tests or anything that requires "analytic insight". but i think languages are very difficult to master. i cant imagine anyone being good at so many languages.
Languages are only hard to master if you're not used to it. If you know 3 languages, it ain't so hard to learn another one (especially when they are from the same origin (indoeuropean, ...).

You're a genius if you can speak a Western , an Arabic & a Eastern language. I wouldn't consider myself as a linguistic genius (rather a dumbo ;)), but i speak dutch, french, german, english & some spanish (i understand some italian & latin as well). A lot of Belgians know these languages (well, apart from Italian & spanish probably), but you wouldn't consider us all smart :p.

It's a combination of languages, maths, ... not just one criteria.

irma
Jun 22nd, 2003, 08:28 AM
yeah when you can dutch, german is not far away, english has many dutch related words and also many french words, so then you can learn french too, wich is also related to spanish, italian and portugese.

so when you are in foreign countries a lot. it goes quick

bis2806
Jun 22nd, 2003, 03:32 PM
I think Lindsay Davenport's the smartest girl on the tour.... the way she responds to the media in interview is just too good, her depth in the analysis etc. I once also read that she was offered a place at Stanford University...