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View Full Version : Why is Kim written off for Wimbledon?


Sam L
Jun 16th, 2003, 02:08 AM
Not by all obviously, but by a lot of people. Most people's reasoning being that she's never done well there before. Well she has reached a QF there and how many times have players gone on to win GS where they've never been past the QF before in their previous visits?

For one, Venus Williams at Wimbledon 2000, and in fact she was also coming off a disappointing Roland Garros tournament that year too. I'm not saying Kim will do a Venus and win this tournament but I think she does have a very strong chance. And with a good draw she just might win it.

What do you think?

Cybelle Darkholme
Jun 16th, 2003, 02:15 AM
Not by all obviously, but by a lot of people. Most people's reasoning being that she's never done well there before. Well she has reached a QF there and how many times have players gone on to win GS where they've never been past the QF before in their previous visits?

For one, Venus Williams at Wimbledon 2000, and in fact she was also coming off a disappointing Roland Garros tournament that year too. I'm not saying Kim will do a Venus and win this tournament but I think she does have a very strong chance. And with a good draw she just might win it.

What do you think?

Kim who? Oh you mean Hewitts Girlfriend who pretends to play competitve tennis just to spend more time following him around on tour? You mean that girl who is so well adjusted that losing a final or semifinal in a major is just as heartbreaking as chipping a nail or missing breakfast? Oh well I lost two french open finals, whats for lunch?

I swear kim has as much competitive fire as scooby doo.

Kim:"Rhats rup Reton? Rhen re retting rarried?"
Lleyton: "When you win a slam, kimmie."
Kim: "Rooooo, Ri reed a rimmie rack."

lizchris
Jun 16th, 2003, 02:19 AM
I think because her movement on grass is not as good as most of the top ten.

venusfan
Jun 16th, 2003, 02:23 AM
because she cant do the splits on grass

~|Naomi|~
Jun 16th, 2003, 02:25 AM
It's just because she is yet to play her best on grass, that a lot of people underestimate her abiliity on that surface. Kim hasn't written herself off and I don't think the other top 10 players would have as neither would have Marc. A lot of people think clay is Kim's best surface as that is where is her best GS performances have come, yet clay is her worst surface.

Personally I think Kim's best chance at the GS'S are at US and Aussie Opens, but I think she also has a shot at WImbledon cause she isn't really considered a favourite.

Oh and another reason could be that the number 1 Kim critic, Chris Evert says Kim is no good on grass.

Jericho
Jun 16th, 2003, 02:26 AM
For one, Venus Williams at Wimbledon 2000, and in fact she was also coming off a disappointing Roland Garros tournament that year too. I'm not saying Kim will do a Venus and win this tournament but I think she does have a very strong chance. And with a good draw she just might win it.

What do you think?

i believe venus was coming off of a long lay-off due to injury, so really its not the same, especially since venus always had the game for grass...
and LoL at the good chance if she has a good draw, you can't get easier than the draws she's been getting (not that its her fault in any way), the cake walk draws have been hurting her for example recently at the french...i say she will at least make the quarters, if not the semis...i just dont think her game suits grass

~|Naomi|~
Jun 16th, 2003, 02:29 AM
her movement on grass is not as good as most of the top ten.

I'm not so sure about that, I;m not saying Kim is the best mover out of hte top 10 on grass or anything but, I think she moves better than Daniela, Myskina, Rubin, Davenport and Capriati. And I'm not in a position to compare Kim's movement to Mauresmo, but I don't think henin's movement is that better than Kim's on grass, I don't even know if it is better. But I would concede that both Williams are far superior in that department to Kim

Gowza
Jun 16th, 2003, 02:34 AM
i don't think i have ever seen her play on grass or if i have it was when she played graf and that was when she was like 16 so it doesn't help me judge her for now. but as pointed out she hasn't got past the quarters at wimby. i think the main reason why people are counting her out are because there are a quite afew other players that have done better than her at wimbledon. both williams sisters, davenport, henin, and possibley we can count capriati and maybe mauresmo (but i don't really think mauresmo should be put above kim). grass is the best surface for venus, serena and lindsay and henin has done quite a bit better than kim so it's not that people think kim is crap on grass it's probably because of the surface and past history of the other top players at wimbledon.

but obviously it is hard to tell what kim will be lik this year on grass because she has been playing a lot better and is now right at the top of the game rather than trying to get there.

Mr. Man
Jun 16th, 2003, 02:35 AM
Well I'm not ruling her out. Lets wait for this weeks results to see if she has chance.

Gowza
Jun 16th, 2003, 02:38 AM
i also think a lot of people believe that more players have a chance like petrova whose game really suits grass and they look at how she went at RG and say if she can do that on clay then what is she capable of doing on grass.

but kim is a fighter and she hasn't lost before the semis in a slam this year so far so she will be hungfry to get there especially since she has never been there before.

lizchris
Jun 16th, 2003, 02:43 AM
I'm not so sure about that, I;m not saying Kim is the best mover out of hte top 10 on grass or anything but, I think she moves better than Daniela, Myskina, Rubin, Davenport and Capriati. And I'm not in a position to compare Kim's movement to Mauresmo, but I don't think henin's movement is that better than Kim's on grass, I don't even know if it is better. But I would concede that both Williams are far superior in that department to Kim


She might move better than Chanda, but Chanda has a title on grass (2002 Eastbourne) and is a former junior Wimbeldon champion (as is Amelie), so that has to count for something.

King Lindsay
Jun 16th, 2003, 02:50 AM
because people (read:mostwilliamsfans) are stupid.

disposablehero
Jun 16th, 2003, 02:51 AM
Chalk it up to general idiocy.

Lisbeth
Jun 16th, 2003, 02:57 AM
It's just because she is yet to play her best on grass, that a lot of people underestimate her abiliity on that surface.

Exactly, Kim can be a contender on any surface. Basically it's the same logic that mad people claim that Serena and Venus were never going to win the French Open. At least among the top few women at the moment, it's simply not sensible to claim that any of them can't win anything on the right day.

On the other hand, I do think that on past performances Kim is not the best grass player of the top 5. But let's wait and see how she plays this year :)

Rtael
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:02 AM
I could see Kim going out in the quarters to someone like Chanda, Amelie, Maggie, Petrova, or Lindsay....

Because Kim Sucks! *hides* J/k!

Rtael
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:03 AM
BTW, we'll be able to better judge after her performance at s'Hertogenbosch....

King Lindsay
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:04 AM
BTW, we'll be able to better judge after her performance at s'Hertogenbosch....

No we won't. That tournament means very little in the long run, and I don't think it has much bearing on what will happen at Wimbledon.

Rtael
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:08 AM
Why do you say that? There are two top players playing there....Momo and Justine...both pretty good on grass....she'd have to beat both to get the title, and if she beats both, or even one, it will show she's not as bad on grass as everyone thinks. However if she loses first round (well second....first round bye) I'd say that indicates a much larger likelihood that she won't be performing well at WImbledon....it's only a week away and on this same surface....I don't think much is gonna change in a week, sweety ;)

King Lindsay
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:13 AM
Why do you say that? There are two top players playing there....Momo and Justine...both pretty good on grass....she'd have to beat both to get the title, and if she beats both, or even one, it will show she's not as bad on grass as everyone thinks. However if she loses first round (well second....first round bye) I'd say that indicates a much larger likelihood that she won't be performing well at WImbledon....it's only a week away and on this same surface....I don't think much is gonna change in a week, sweety ;)

an early loss doesn't indicate much for Wimbledon, IMO. It's just a throwaway event before a big major. did it matter when Mary pierce lost to germana di Natale in Madrid the week before the French Open? Or when jennifer Capriati bombed out in sydney first match two years in a row before winning the Australian? the top players take the big events seriously, and I know Kim won't be giving every fibre in her being to be the s'Hertogenbosch champion. but she will to be the Wimbledon champion.

TennisManu
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:14 AM
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King Lindsay
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:14 AM
and she's not bad on grass. Anybody who thinks that is an absolute moron. Her best result at Wimbledon is a QF, which matches her best result at the US Open. Does that mean she's bad on hardcourts? She's got a second round exit in New York on her record too.

That wasn't really addressed to you, rtael, I know you didn't say she's bad on grass, but i would just like to dispell this stupid myth perpetrated by the williams fans.

Rtael
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:14 AM
Really? Did you watch the French Open Final? Oh yes, I can see what you mean by..."every fibre of her being" there....

Knizzle
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:15 AM
Kim could do better on grass if she wasn't so passive. It's not so easy to run, run, run and retrieve balls on grass. Also her serve isn't much of a weapon, so it will be tough for her to hold against a big returner. She needs to go for shots and make them if she wants to win Wimbledon. She doesn't come to the net much, and I don't think she is comfortable there. Serena is the only woman that I think can win Wimbledon without attacking the net. Although this year, they say bounces will be higher on the grass so that will definitely help Clijsters.

King Lindsay
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:16 AM
Really? Did you watch the French Open Final? Oh yes, I can see what you mean by..."every fibre of her being" there....

are you honestly saying you don't believe she was trying her hardest to win the French Open final? Please....

Rtael
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:16 AM
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Yeah that's a nice believable post from someone who doesn't have any kind of official accredidation whatsoever....

King Lindsay
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:16 AM
Kim could do better on grass if she wasn't so passive. It's not so easy to run, run, run and retrieve balls on grass. Also her serve isn't much of a weapon, so it will be tough for her to hold against a big returner. She needs to go for shots and make them if she wants to win Wimbledon. She doesn't come to the net much, and I don't think she is comfortable there. Serena is the only woman that I think can win Wimbledon without attacking the net. Although this year, they say bounces will be higher on the grass so that will definitely help Clijsters.

who is saying the bounces will be higher this year?

Rtael
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:17 AM
are you honestly saying you don't believe she was trying her hardest to win the French Open final? Please....


I'm not saying she tanked the match, but to me it certainly didn't look like she was trying "with every fibre of her being", definitely NOT.

TennisManu
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:18 AM
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King Lindsay
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:18 AM
A lot of the avatars in use on this message board have been stolen and are being used illegally by the owners of this board.

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King Lindsay
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:19 AM
I'm not saying she tanked the match, but to me it certainly didn't look like she was trying "with every fibre of her being", definitely NOT.

she was, rtael. It just wasn't her day. That happens.

Knizzle
Jun 16th, 2003, 04:15 AM
who is saying the bounces will be higher this year?

Tim Henman is upset about it.

King Lindsay
Jun 16th, 2003, 04:18 AM
Tim Henman is upset about it.

every year, some player is upset about the surface. it's playing fast/slow/medium/slow-medium and the balls are like mush/flying. i would not put too much stock into what they say.

Besides, wouldn't Tim be talking about the grass at queen's? I don't think he's been to Wimbledon yet, has he?

Rtael
Jun 16th, 2003, 04:23 AM
there was an article about how it was bouncing higher last year, and how it was gonna stay that way this year....cause of how they grow the grass, I guess...

alexusjonesfan
Jun 16th, 2003, 04:32 AM
There was a recent article which stated that Tim was at a disadvantage at Wimbledon last year because the grass was allowed to be longer than before and that somehow helped the baseliners (I have no idea how). The writer mentioned that this was a change brought about last year and the surface would be the same this year.

Now, whether that's just the British press trying to explain away their shock at a final of baseliners, or whether there is any truth to the theory of longer grass I don't know, but I think that's the article Rtael may have been referring to

Rtael
Jun 16th, 2003, 04:34 AM
yeah...that's it....they said it would help the baseliners because the ball bounced higher...

Rollo
Jun 16th, 2003, 04:44 AM
If the players are mentioning the courts are playing faster, slower, etc I tend to believe them-after all they should know! So when John Mcenroe talks about the cut of the grass on a court he's been on a lot I'd pay attention :)

There was lots of comment from players about how the courts were playing slower at Roland Garros than years past-and look at the results.

Now I'm not sure why longer grass would help a baseliner, but perhaps longer grass "holds" the ball more, giving baseliners more time. Maybe a shorter cut helps the ball shoot faster and lower.

One thing I do know-serve and volleyers should pray for a little rain. Dry courts produce higher bounces.

Rollo
Jun 16th, 2003, 04:52 AM
Speaking of higher bounces and Kim Clijsters-there's a connection. Kimmy has a two-handed backhand, a real handicap on grass. Lots of people will point out that Serena and Venus have two handers, not to mention other past champs, but they also had great serves the years they won.

One reason Henin and Mauresmo are given a greater chance on grass than Kim is their one handers suit the surface. A one handed backhand slice skids on grass and keeps the ball low. Grass is one surface where topspin is relatively useless.

Gonzo Hates Me!
Jun 16th, 2003, 05:01 AM
Kim who? Oh you mean Hewitts Girlfriend who pretends to play competitve tennis just to spend more time following him around on tour? You mean that girl who is so well adjusted that losing a final or semifinal in a major is just as heartbreaking as chipping a nail or missing breakfast? Oh well I lost two french open finals, whats for lunch?

I swear kim has as much competitive fire as scooby doo.

Kim:"Rhats rup Reton? Rhen re retting rarried?"
Lleyton: "When you win a slam, kimmie."
Kim: "Rooooo, Ri reed a rimmie rack."


Hahaha! Gotta admit, that was funny!

Dawn Marie
Jun 16th, 2003, 05:07 AM
I don't think anyone is writing Kim off, they are just not putting her as a top 4 to 5 favorite. many of the players who are grea on grass are also still active and highly competitive. Without a doubt Serena,Venus,Momo,Henin and even some Russians are the favorite on grass over Kim.

Kim has to "want it", and I don't see a competitve slam drive in her yet. Her RG disaster is telling.. she just goes bonkers in slam finals... and semis.

CoryAnnAvants#1
Jun 16th, 2003, 05:17 AM
I don't think anyone is writing Kim off, they are just not putting her as a top 4 to 5 favorite. many of the players who are grea on grass are also still active and highly competitive. Without a doubt Serena,Venus,Momo,Henin and even some Russians are the favorite on grass over Kim.

Kim has to "want it", and I don't see a competitve slam drive in her yet. Her RG disaster is telling.. she just goes bonkers in slam finals... and semis.

Is the same person who came w/in a couple of points of beating Capriati in the 2000 RG finals before losing 10-8 in the third

Dawn Marie
Jun 16th, 2003, 05:21 AM
It is not the same slam playng Kim in 2001. That was 2 years ago. That Kim would have won the Oz Open and not have gotten a bagel in a slam by Henin.

irma
Jun 16th, 2003, 07:23 AM
since when is kim not a good mover?

lmao :o

XMan
Jun 16th, 2003, 07:59 AM
Kim wins Wimbledon. It's as simple as it is ;)

seldom83
Jun 16th, 2003, 08:00 AM
kim sucks, all she does is profit from easy draws all the time like at RG. look at her, she didn't stand a chance against justine!

BasicTennis
Jun 16th, 2003, 08:10 AM
Lleyton is giving her bad luck, bad karma, so she will not win a GS ever if she sticks with Heweee.:o

seldom83
Jun 16th, 2003, 08:12 AM
no that not true, i think its worse for hewitt... clijsters is smart, she has hewitt, who isn't that bad looking and she can always hit with him...thats so good for her! and what does hewitt have? some ugly fat girl, when he can have the hottest girl out there...

BasicTennis
Jun 16th, 2003, 08:15 AM
LMAO:D
Only her Mother would love Hewitt.:p

great smash
Jun 16th, 2003, 09:32 AM
Speaking of higher bounces and Kim Clijsters-there's a connection. Kimmy has a two-handed backhand, a real handicap on grass. Lots of people will point out that Serena and Venus have two handers, not to mention other past champs, but they also had great serves the years they won.

One reason Henin and Mauresmo are given a greater chance on grass than Kim is their one handers suit the surface. A one handed backhand slice skids on grass and keeps the ball low. Grass is one surface where topspin is relatively useless.

I'd agree a one handed backhand should work fine on grass, but I think the last time a one handed backhand player won the title was 5 years ago, so I think it's safe to say a two handed backhand isn't really such a handicap ;)

SJW
Jun 16th, 2003, 09:32 AM
y'all need to leave Kimmy alone :(

the low bounce hinders Clijsters...watch her and u will see she LOVES to take the early ball and hit DOWNWARDS. she cant do that on grass.

im not writing her off...she possesses certain similarities to Serena on clay....just because its not her best surface she "cant win the slam on it"

pure talent alone will carry Kim through Wimbledon like Serena through the FO (im not saying Kim will def win). there comes a time when you are so good, you will win even though you dont have the "surface game".

Kims such a good player i put her in the top 3 contenders, regardless of previous performances

Lien
Jun 16th, 2003, 11:33 AM
no that not true, i think its worse for hewitt... clijsters is smart, she has hewitt, who isn't that bad looking and she can always hit with him...thats so good for her! and what does hewitt have? some ugly fat girl, when he can have the hottest girl out there...

You sure know alot about beauty, who are you you, miss/mister Universe, the most beautiful creature on earth?

Kim ISN'T miss Universe, but to say she is ugly.

irma
Jun 16th, 2003, 11:39 AM
nobody is ugly. the only thing that's ugly are the people who make a deal out of it and decide that certain people are less worth because they are no standard catwalk bimbo's :o

seldom83
Jun 16th, 2003, 12:10 PM
ok sorry guys i apologize

seldom83
Jun 16th, 2003, 12:11 PM
:bounce: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Hagar
Jun 16th, 2003, 12:24 PM
She was in 2 finals here (mixed doubles 2000 and doubles 2001) so I think she is not THAT bad on grass.

fifiricci
Jun 16th, 2003, 12:45 PM
no that not true, i think its worse for hewitt... clijsters is smart, she has hewitt, who isn't that bad looking and she can always hit with him...thats so good for her! and what does hewitt have? some ugly fat girl, when he can have the hottest girl out there...

And who are you, god's fucking gift? Dont post here if you cant be intelligent.

fifiricci
Jun 16th, 2003, 12:48 PM
Kim who? Oh you mean Hewitts Girlfriend who pretends to play competitve tennis just to spend more time following him around on tour? You mean that girl who is so well adjusted that losing a final or semifinal in a major is just as heartbreaking as chipping a nail or missing breakfast? Oh well I lost two french open finals, whats for lunch?

I swear kim has as much competitive fire as scooby doo.

Kim:"Rhats rup Reton? Rhen re retting rarried?"
Lleyton: "When you win a slam, kimmie."
Kim: "Rooooo, Ri reed a rimmie rack."

Yeah right, and much better Kimmie's approach than your Serena girl, who blubbers like a spoilt baby on international TV cos she lost to little Justine like it was the end of the world. Boo hoo!!

irma
Jun 16th, 2003, 12:51 PM
kim is fat, kim has not fire, kim has no mentality, kim only plays because of hewee. kim is too nice

despite all these disadvantages, she is doing really well isn't she? the wta should be glad;)

great smash
Jun 16th, 2003, 01:09 PM
She was in 2 finals here (mixed doubles 2000 and doubles 2001) so I think she is not THAT bad on grass.

That's exactly what I realised last night after watching their FO doubles final again.

She really does love grass, and apart from last year with her shoulder injury, she does have some some good results. Although she lost to Myskina, she did beat Tauziat, on grass, the round before, so there are more than enough indications of how she does like the grass and can do well on it, and that's exactly what I expect her to show us this year.

DA FOREHAND
Jun 16th, 2003, 01:46 PM
Because she's saving her energy to defend the really important title...Year end in L.A.

RAA
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:03 PM
Well, as a Williams fan, I am not writing her off. but as a previous poster said, grass favors the big servers and also those who are good volleyers. I wouldn't count Kim in either of those categories.

and not withstanding how high the ball bounces.. on grass, the balls tend to die/skid more than other surfaces. This will work against Kim-the-retriever game plan.

Kim has a great all around game, but I think that grass favors those with big weapons, like a killer serve or great hands at the net.

anyway, given her year so far, you'd be stupid to count her out.

fifiricci
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:04 PM
Nice Post RAA!! Sums it up perfectly, dont think theres a need for anyone to say anything else on this subject. Lets just wait and see shall we.

DEETHELICK
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:06 PM
I think Kim is not as naturally strong on grass as she is on other surfaces.

I think grass actually doesn't help her because she cannot slide as easily, and the bounce is lower. Plus I think always hitting with topspin on grass isn't always the best idea, hitting flat makes the ball skid through and makes it more difficult for the opponent.

I think Kim's best bet is a QF, where I hope someone like Jen will be waiting. :)

fried_beans
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:12 PM
"Kim:"Rhats rup Reton? Rhen re retting rarried?"
Lleyton: "When you win a slam, kimmie."
Kim: "Rooooo, Ri reed a rimmie rack."

LMFAO !!! PURE FUCKIN GOLD!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOL

SJW
Jun 16th, 2003, 03:40 PM
Yeah right, and much better Kimmie's approach than your Serena girl, who blubbers like a spoilt baby on international TV cos she lost to little Justine like it was the end of the world. Boo hoo!!

:rolleyes: