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View Full Version : I had had to start another thread...JH vs.MH


leszcd2
Jun 13th, 2003, 04:32 AM
-----------------Looking at it objectively-----------REALLY-----
*Lets not forget that players develop (so you can't say Martina won when justine was ranked in the 50's).

There is nothing that Hingis does/did better than Justine does now. Nothing(maybe 'thinking'). Justine hits the ball 2x has hard her serve is much better. Their movement and returns are = at best with Justine having a much stronger one.

Martina Hingis would never beat Serena 3 out of 4 times on Clay in two years(at serena's current level).


In 1997, Graf was injured, Davenport was slow and fat ,the Williams sisters were not 1/1000th the players they are today and Jenn was doing time in jail. Once they came into their own how slams did Hingis take home?...0

*The only player who's # Martina ever had was....Seles, sadly.

Martina was a weak 17/18 year old that did not cross training in the 1990's. Majoli played a 'semi-power' game to win the French and look how easly Hingis was blown off the court.
---And what's this 2 1st round losses at the all england club while the no.1 seed!---


MARTINA LEFT, cause she knew....that the Clijsters, Henin,Amelie,Capriati,Davenport,Williams, Hantuchova train was rolling...

ps. Did any of you watch some of Hingis's matches in the 90's, its like watching jrs. now. Just hitting to a person's backhand or forehand and hoping for an error. The Williams sisters have forced the top ten take their game to a new level. REALLY. If now a new level tech. then they sure added the word 'attack' into the wta handbook glossary.

Your JUST CANNOT PLAY Hingis' game NOW against the top 5....You'll get away with it against Dokic,Myskina and bellow but thats about it. You cannot spin your serve in any more or 'hope' for an error. Cause you'll be watching balls fly by.

Venus Forever
Jun 13th, 2003, 04:37 AM
You start a new thread on the same topic because people don't see it your way?? :o

I, personally, believe that Hingis would have won. Hingis was just so smart out there on the court, she would outcraft Justine.

Just how I feel. ;)

faboozadoo15
Jun 13th, 2003, 04:44 AM
that's just ridiculous!!! plus, not every post has to be its own topic here.

adison-hingis
Jun 13th, 2003, 04:44 AM
one thing i want to notice you that when you criticize Martina Hingis's game .All people in this world WILL see you as an unknowledgable person that don't know anything about tennis .I wonder how come you said that ?...

leszcd2
Jun 13th, 2003, 04:44 AM
Craft ain't gonna get you nowhere these days. And Hingis' craft was always over rated. She really was not that smart. Just consistant. REALLY.

Venus Forever
Jun 13th, 2003, 04:49 AM
Hingis wasn't smart?!?!

Now, that's a laugh.

Hingis knew when to hit what shot and when. She was extremely intelligent out there. She easily moved the ball around, waiting for an opportunity to break open the point with an amazing shot.

Hingis knew how to work the court.

And this is all coming from a person who was never a fan.

I wish she would come back. :sad:

adison-hingis
Jun 13th, 2003, 04:53 AM
plus her technique, that's really amazing .Forehand,backhand and even the serve ..you usually don't see it hard ,but when you observe every single shot of her .You'd find down what i mean ...!

Couver
Jun 13th, 2003, 04:54 AM
Martina faced a lot of tough competition during her reing as #1 and she had wins over all of those you mentioned above (not sure about Clijsters??). Even toward the end she was still somewhat hanging with the big babes.

I personally believe Martina would have found away to play on Justine's nerves, Hingis knew everyone shot there was she could fluster Henin to no end and force her to make the errors.

Also I'm confused why do people act like she left the game because she knew she couldn't compete? I thought she had serious foot injuries that caused her a lot of pain?

Robbie.
Jun 13th, 2003, 05:03 AM
leszcd2, you have obviously fallen into the "tennis has left hingis behind" trap which is pure rhetoric. I challenge anyone to provide me with EVIDENCE of how the game has evolved since the days of 1998-2000 because quite frankly there is no evidence of it. As far as I can see Serena has gone to another level, but the rest of the tour? Please. Give me a break.

Lindsay is still hanging around the top 5 and she is but a shadow of the player of 1998-2000.

Venus has not played her best tennis since 2001, and in my opinion produced her ultimate peak from 1999-2001.

Chanda Rubin is a top 10 player just as she was all the way back in 1996, infact she might be more dominant now than she ever was.

Amanda Coetzer and Conchita Martinez are still basically top 15 players and they too are past their best.

You sight Clijsters and Hantuchova as examples of the reason why Martina left, well the last time she played them in 2002 she beat them both, and that was when Dani was playing much better than she is now.

When Hingis left the game LAST YEAR (thats right barely 12 months ago!) for her second surgery she was #1 in the race to the championships and world #3.

As much as you decry Hingis' level she would NEVER have given away a Grandslam final the way the current world #2 did last Saturday.

The tennis has evolved argument is pure rhetoric, no one ever bothers to back up these kind of statements with evidence. Until such a time as they do then this supposed " theory" should be treated as little more than a throwaway line.

If you think Hingis does nothing better than Henin I suggest you rent out the Serena Williams Versus Martina Hingis Australian Open 2001 Quarterfinal that I just recently revisited. Awesome stuff. Henin would not get near Hingis on a hardcourt. Hingis is the toughest challenger Serena has faced to this point (given that Venus plays like crap against her). Period.

o0O0o
Jun 13th, 2003, 05:09 AM
Great post Rob!

Anyway, to say Hingis was just consistent is ridiculous. If that is true, how come a more consistent, faster counterpuncher (Amanda Coetzer) was repeatedly blown off the court by Hingis? Because Hingis had excellent shot placement and selection, and took the ball so early her opponents didn't always have time to react.

Henin, as good as she is, is still very inconsistent and I'm sorry but Hingis would destroy Henin in backhand rallies. Martina's backhand was impeccable, and Henin slices too much, and Hingis loves getting junk shots like that and putting them away.

The only real advantage Henin would have is the return. But if we are talking about Hingis' prime, she served mostly in the upper 80s and 90s anyway with very well-placed serves with a serving percentage of 80-90%. No trouble there.

persond
Jun 13th, 2003, 05:10 AM
:cool: HaHaHaHaHaHAH...aaahhhHAH...!!!


Ahhh Hell, "beat a dead horse to death, will ya...!!!"

adison-hingis
Jun 13th, 2003, 06:14 AM
thanks oOOoo for reminded Hingis' determination of killing the slice backhand ..i should have remembered that .Coz it was her weapon against one handed backhand

Mister B
Jun 13th, 2003, 01:52 PM
yes thanks for reminding how good Martina was, I loove it so much lol.. I watched Martina against Venus in US 2000 and that's the best match I've watched in my life! sAME thing the year after in Aus 2001 quarters, 8-6 in the third.. Martina was soooooo smart and hot and I'm sure Justine of 2003 would have nevet beaten Serena in 2001 Aus quarters and Venus in US 2000.. On clay, it's another story..

spudrsca
Jun 13th, 2003, 02:31 PM
Great post Rob!

Anyway, to say Hingis was just consistent is ridiculous. If that is true, how come a more consistent, faster counterpuncher (Amanda Coetzer) was repeatedly blown off the court by Hingis? Because Hingis had excellent shot placement and selection, and took the ball so early her opponents didn't always have time to react.

Henin, as good as she is, is still very inconsistent and I'm sorry but Hingis would destroy Henin in backhand rallies. Martina's backhand was impeccable, and Henin slices too much, and Hingis loves getting junk shots like that and putting them away.

The only real advantage Henin would have is the return. But if we are talking about Hingis' prime, she served mostly in the upper 80s and 90s anyway with very well-placed serves with a serving percentage of 80-90%. No trouble there.

That was maybe the case before but not now.
Henin has improved her game to be more agressive and try to take the balls earlier this year. And you can see now that Justine hits a lot more winners this year.
She has also improved her return of serve.
And for me the most beneficial improvement in the game of Henin this year is her shots down the line. The other years, you could notice that she played too often crossed shots but now hits a lot more shots down the line in order to not let the opponents anticipate too much.
Plus one of the weaknesses of Hingis is her physique, if you makes her run a lot, she'll be exhausted after 1h30 like in the final of RG99.

About the slices of Henin in her backhand, she uses this when she is on the defensive and I doubt Hingis has enough power to force Henin to slice all her backhands. Plus her coach has persuade Henin this year to slice less often when it's not necessary.

QUEENLINDSAY
Jun 13th, 2003, 03:48 PM
Why do we all have this Henin Mania???
Did Iva Majoli fans did this when she won the french????? Everywhere I see thread as Henin will destroy Lindsay, will destroy Hingis etccc..........

SHUT!!!! the hell up!!!!! These two players are FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR............more FAR WAY BETTER than the cheater Henin.
PERIOD!!!!!

SJW
Jun 13th, 2003, 03:53 PM
Hingis used what she had MUCH more effectively than anybody else

she didnt have much power but could still hit winners past the Williams and Dav etc cos she outsmarted them

i think Martina in 97 is one of the best players u are gonna see in a year....only the best can dominate like that

ps i agree with QL....the Henin talk is getting out of hand. its just ridiculous. some of her actions over the past year have been taken lightly. you NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER say a player who had Linzis type of chronic injuries was FAKING an injury. that is just wrong

tennisjam
Jun 13th, 2003, 03:58 PM
leszcd2,seriously, did you ever hold a racket in you hand...??? :confused:

moby
Jun 13th, 2003, 04:25 PM
i dont think he thinks when he plays tennis... so he thinks everyone plays tennis like that? :confused:

DA FOREHAND
Jun 13th, 2003, 04:27 PM
Martina hands down...and no way is justine's return better than Martina's. Martina returned big serves better than anyone. Ask Mark P.(Hopman)

Let justine win a big tourney outside of the clay courts before you start all this yappin!