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View Full Version : Kim Clijsters Ranked #1 if she does better than Serena in Paris and London.


anton
Jun 4th, 2003, 06:33 PM
Serena has 999.99 points to defend on Paris and similar in London. Kim has next to nothing to defend.

DA FOREHAND
Jun 4th, 2003, 06:34 PM
I think your "IF" should be capitalized.

Jarrett
Jun 4th, 2003, 06:35 PM
I think almost everyone already knew that.

anton
Jun 4th, 2003, 09:13 PM
maybe this is why serena looked so mean against ameile

King Lindsay
Jun 4th, 2003, 09:53 PM
no, Serena has 1052 points off in Paris. Not sure how many in London, but probably a little less.

~|Naomi|~
Jun 5th, 2003, 08:03 AM
no, Serena has 1052 points off in Paris. Not sure how many in London, but probably a little less.

She has 1056 at Wimbledon

JPV
Jun 5th, 2003, 08:07 AM
Virtually (if both players don't win a point anymore), Kim's 152 points ahead of Serena after Wimbledon.

That's why the game against Henin is so important for her. Losing the game, while having kim win the tournament almost certainly means the loss of nr1 for Serena.

1jackson2001
Jun 5th, 2003, 08:11 AM
JPV, Kim's 152 points ahead of Clijsters??!

LMAO!

anton
Jun 5th, 2003, 08:11 AM
How many points does Kim defend in London?

Venus missed her chance to get back to number one :rolleyes:

Now she willl have to wait until after the US Open

JPV
Jun 5th, 2003, 08:13 AM
How many points does Kim defend in London? none, sh's got 40 points in wimbledon but these aren't part of her best 17

JPV
Jun 5th, 2003, 08:16 AM
Now she willl have to wait until after the US Openconsidering venus won't play more than 2 prep tournaments, it is impossible for Venus to become nr1 (even nr2) straight after US Open.

anton
Jun 5th, 2003, 08:21 AM
It is quite possible Kim will be number one in a few weeks. If Justine beats Serena and Kim makes the final in Paris then in London, if Venus beats Serena in the SF and then Kim makes the final, guess who's number one? Kim!!!

per4ever
Jun 5th, 2003, 08:24 AM
don't expect Kim in the final on grass...she'll be out in the early stages

tennisIlove09
Jun 5th, 2003, 08:26 AM
Do you all WANT Kim to be #2? Frankly it would look terrible for the WTA Tour if Kim became #1. Serena loses both Paris and London, but falls? The ONLY way Kim should go to #1 is if she wins both Paris and London, otherwise Serena's #1, no question. She would still have 2 slams in the last 52 weeks!

It's looking bad enough Venus falling to #4...the WTA is looking more and more like the 99/00/01 seasons when the rankings were a joke. I guess they always were.

JPV
Jun 5th, 2003, 08:27 AM
It is quite possible Kim will be number one in a few weeks. If Justine beats Serena and Kim makes the final in Paris then in London, if Venus beats Serena in the SF and then Kim makes the final, guess who's number one? Kim!!!
IF Kim wins the French Open (beating Justine), she won't need to reach the final of Wimbledon. A Semifinal appearance is enough (even a QF may be enough, depending on how good Kim does it at 's hertogenbosch, and the quality points she gets from the first couple of ronds in Wimbledon).

IF Serena doesn't win Wimbledon, Kim wouldn't even have to participate at Wimbledon.

JPV
Jun 5th, 2003, 08:30 AM
Do you all WANT Kim to be #2? Frankly it would look terrible for the WTA Tour if Kim became #1. Serena loses both Paris and London, but falls? The ONLY way Kim should go to #1 is if she wins both Paris and London, otherwise Serena's #1, no question. She would still have 2 slams in the last 52 weeks!

It's looking bad enough Venus falling to #4...the WTA is looking more and more like the 99/00/01 seasons when the rankings were a joke. I guess they always were.
Rankings aren't a joke... when 2 players don't care about the ranking, their fans shouldn't complain the rankings are not good.

And slams don't tell everything. OK, when someone has 4 slams vs none, the one with the 4 slams should be nr1 (and it's almost impossible not to be). But a 2-1 situation ain't uncommon... and it doens't show a better quality.

per4ever
Jun 5th, 2003, 08:48 AM
I wonder why there are other tournaments next to the GS's... seems like they are totally unimportant to some fans :rolleyes:

Venus reached the finals of the last slams...but she didn't win them!! What did she win? 1 tournament, a tier II
Justine won a tier II AND two tier I's. She reached the semi's in AO and in RG.

Just look at the facts, Justine has better results so deserves her ranking. Venus deserves a higher ranking if she has better results. It's that easy. You can't make a ranking based on potential, 'cause Anna K would be a top ten player then.

Tarsius
Jun 5th, 2003, 08:55 AM
Very good explanation. Rankings are supposed to estimate performance, not talent.

anton
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:28 AM
IF Kim wins the French Open (beating Justine), she won't need to reach the final of Wimbledon. A Semifinal appearance is enough (even a QF may be enough, depending on how good Kim does it at 's hertogenbosch, and the quality points she gets from the first couple of ronds in Wimbledon).

IF Serena doesn't win Wimbledon, Kim wouldn't even have to participate at Wimbledon.


I did not know this!! :eek:

I think it helps Kim that she actually plays tournaments while Venus and Serena are on the beach or whereever (rankings-wise.)

treufreund
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:45 AM
considering that Kim has won the tour championships, Filderstadt, Sydney, Indian Wells, Rome, been in the finals of 5 tournaments and SF of two Grand Slams it is not that surprising or unfair.

She only made the second round of Wimby last year and only the fourth round of the US Open (122pts). She also has a first round loss at Los Angeles, third Rd loss at the Canadian Open and QF at San Diego where she *COULD* pick up some pts. :eek:

JPV
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:47 AM
I did not know this!! :eek:

I think it helps Kim that she actually plays tournaments while Venus and Serena are on the beach or whereever (rankings-wise.)
something i wrote in USENET (with the numbers to prove it):

> 1 (1) SWILLIAMS 6006*
> 2 (2) CLIJSTERS 5102*

Note the game between Williams & Henin could decide if Clijsters has a
decent chance at becoming nr1 in Wimbledon...

If Venus wins the match, Clijsters will have a hard time to become nr1
at wimbledon.

But, if Henin wins, and Clijsters wins the tournament, i guess
Clijsters has a more than 50% chance at becoming nr1 at Wimbledon
(ironnically, at her worst surface ;)).

If Clijsters wins the tournament, she'd get 5578 points.

Adding a final in Hertogenbosch (50 pts) + a SF in Wimbledon (400
pts)(i give her 50% for doing this), quite guarantees a first place
even if Serena wins Wimbledon.

Clijsters wouldn't have to beat a Williams in order to become nr1. ;)

anton
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:51 AM
thanks. very good mathematics!!

monicain
Jun 5th, 2003, 09:56 AM
This is soo spooky.

treufreund
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:04 AM
but like I said even if none of that happens she has SEVERAL CHANCES to keep adding pts all the way through the summer and at the US Open.

anton
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:14 AM
kim has been playing great so if she does better than serena then thats good for her, but i think we dont need another slamless #1. Kim needs to win the French Open or be #2.

XMan
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:49 AM
don't expect Kim in the final on grass...she'll be out in the early stages

Kim is a lot better on grass then on clay. I can't see her lose in the early stages.

Oizo
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:51 AM
Virtually (if both players don't win a point anymore), Kim's 152 points ahead of Serena after Wimbledon.

That's why the game against Henin is so important for her. Losing the game, while having kim win the tournament almost certainly means the loss of nr1 for Serena.

Cool. :D

Dava
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:52 AM
Im sorry but I cant see anyone but Serena winning Wimby.

Flatstat
Jun 5th, 2003, 10:53 AM
If Kim does better at the French and Wimbledon then Serena the bet is she will of won one of them and obviously Serena neither. Given she also holds the season ending, then she will most likely deserve to be number 1.

fleemkeģ
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:00 AM
Kim is a lot better on grass then on clay. I can't see her lose in the early stages.


T play good on grass you'll have to do 2 things:
1. come into the net => Kim doesn't do that much
2. a very good serve => Kim doesn't have a such good serve

Kim's singlesresults on gras are very 'poor' so I don't expect that great results on grass for her .

JPV
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:05 AM
Im sorry but I cant see anyone but Serena winning Wimby.
This doesn't matter... as i've said 1000x before, Even if Serena wins Wimbledon, this doesn't mean Kim can't get to nr1.

anton
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:10 AM
flemkee what did you like the most about rome? the food or culture or sights or what?

JPV
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:18 AM
T play good on grass you'll have to do 2 things:
1. come into the net => Kim doesn't do that much
2. a very good serve => Kim doesn't have a such good serve

Kim's singlesresults on gras are very 'poor' so I don't expect that great results on grass for her .
very poor? hmm...

I guess you agree last year was a fluke due to poor condition (the period from RG to WI was dramatic).

So, if you look at her losses at grass and ignore the last season:

Wimbledon 21 Jun 1999 - 04 Jul 1999
Win: Joannette KRUGER (RSA) Karen CROSS (GBR) Amanda COETZER (RSA)
Loss: Steffi GRAF (GER)

's-Hertogenbosch 19 Jun 2000 - 24 Jun 2000
Win: Kristie BOOGERT (NED)
Loss: Patty SCHNYDER (SUI)

Wimbledon 26 Jun 2000 - 09 Jul 2000
Win: Nathalie TAUZIAT (FRA)
Loss: Anastasia MYSKINA (RUS)

's-Hertogenbosch 18 Jun 2001 - 23 Jun 2001
Win: Joannette KRUGER (RSA) Kristina BRANDI (PUR) Jelena DOKIC (YUG)
Loss: Justine HENIN-HARDENNE (BEL)

Wimbledon 25 Jun 2001 - 08 Jul 2001
Win: Giulia CASONI (ITA) Maureen DRAKE (CAN) Angeles MONTOLIO (ESP) Meghann SHAUGHNESSY (USA)
Loss: Lindsay DAVENPORT (USA)

's-Hertogenbosch 17 Jun 2002 - 22 Jun 2002
Win: Andrea GLASS (GER)
Loss: Tina PISNIK (SLO)

Wimbledon 24 Jun 2002 - 07 Jul 2002
Win: Samantha REEVES (USA)
Loss: Elena LIKHOVTSEVA (RUS)

I guess that ain't bad, unless you say Graf, Henin & Davenport suck at grass ;)

fleemkeģ
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:33 AM
No it isn't bad that why poor is between ''. I'm just wonna say that her big resutls aren't on grass (I'm nottalking about her juniortournaments).

I think there arer lower ranked players who can beat Kim on grass because they have a better game on it.

@Anton: Rome is a great city in all aspects ;)

JPV
Jun 5th, 2003, 11:49 AM
No it isn't bad that why poor is between ''. I'm just wonna say that her big resutls aren't on grass (I'm nottalking about her juniortournaments).

I think there arer lower ranked players who can beat Kim on grass because they have a better game on it.

@Anton: Rome is a great city in all aspects ;)
since kim is second, and isn't a top 5 on grass (i guess she's top 10 though), i agree with you, but being second makes it easy to have better court-specialised players behind you ;).

And Rome is indeed great... especially in this weather.

propi
Jun 5th, 2003, 12:14 PM
Well Kim may do better in RG but you can't expect she to do better than Serena in Wimby, anyway who knows??

XMan
Jun 5th, 2003, 12:24 PM
T play good on grass you'll have to do 2 things:
1. come into the net => Kim doesn't do that much
2. a very good serve => Kim doesn't have a such good serve

Kim's singlesresults on gras are very 'poor' so I don't expect that great results on grass for her .

Those two points are important for the men but less for the women. The serve is less important and a serve and volley based game is a very rare phenomenon on the womens tour. Of course, if you have a killer serve like Serena or Venus then it will give you an advantage on grass.
But I think that Kim's serve isn't bad either (look at the ace stats of the RG website). And she has the ability to score at the net when needed (she is a top doublesplayer). Her single results on grass are not bad either, she played the fourth of Wimbledon round when she started as a pro and after her RG final she played the quarter finals of Wimbledon. Last year she wasn't in a great shape because of her shoulder injury.

fleemkeģ
Jun 5th, 2003, 01:08 PM
Well X-man if you look at the past winners in Wimbledon you can't admit that the serve is important.
And I'm not saying Kim can't volley :confused: she just doesn't have the natural intentions to go to the net and I think that's important :)

anton
Jun 5th, 2003, 02:41 PM
well kim has reached the final...

~|Naomi|~
Jun 5th, 2003, 04:23 PM
man i love it when the Belgian Justine Henin-Hardenne fans, say Kim is crap on grass, cause that is so going to come back and bight you on the ass.

~|Naomi|~
Jun 5th, 2003, 04:24 PM
well kim has reached the final...

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

anton
Jun 5th, 2003, 04:26 PM
justine may get there too. if so Kim is almost number one...