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hingis-seles
Jun 3rd, 2003, 10:23 PM
I have often wondered why Monica Seles was stabbed. Really. I mean, she wasn't a particulalry dominant champion. Look at her head-to-head against her main rival, Steffi Graf. It's not like she was dominating or anything. I don't buy that she was stabbed so that her rival could return to #1. After all, that rival had more Slam titles than her, more weeks at #1 and a winning head-to-head. So, what I don't get is that when Monica was clearly not at the same level as her chief rival, why was she stabbed?

Martian Willow
Jun 3rd, 2003, 10:25 PM
He didn't need a good reason, he was nuts.

Monica_Rules
Jun 3rd, 2003, 10:27 PM
The man was crazy.

Plus Monica was on top of Steffi by 1993 and would have passed her by abput 1995 in all departments!

Spirit
Jun 3rd, 2003, 10:43 PM
Yes, but he was nuts.

LOL! Bingo!

Seriously, though...

It wasn't just that Monica had knocked Steffi off the #1 pedestal. After all, Parche had been planning to hurt her for some time, and Monica was #1 for about 2 years, which means his plans to hurt her must have taken shape before she actually became #1, although I'm sure becoming #1 was a huge incentive to his already-formulated desires, as he himself told the police.

I think it was really the fact that Monica beat Steffi at specific matches. Most notably, Parche grew horrifically upset when Monica beat Steffi at the German Open in 1990 - it was a newly unified Germany, the new president was there and it was on home soil. That just about killed him (he felt suicidal), and I think that's where his hatred really took shape.

Then seeing Monica beat Steffi three more times at slams just did him in. (If Monica had beaten Steffi at lesser events but Steffi had beaten Monica at the slams, would he still have struck? I'm not sure.)

Also, remember, Monica generated a lot of press for these reasons:

1. Steffi had been considered invincible.

2. She was so damn young.

3. She grunted.

4. She had a quirky, charismatic flair that caused people either to love her or to hate her.

In short, Monica may not have dominated Steffi, but she dominated the tennis news. She was a gift to journalism on a silver platter. And when the media blitzes you with news about something you dislike (the way, say, that people who don't like Star Wars have to put up with months of hype when a new one comes out), it can build up resentment. It may have been all the talk about how wonderful Monica is that got to Parche just as much as seeing Steffi get beaten at important tournaments.

One other thing: during the 1995 US Open Final, Mary Carillo stated the Parche was anti-Serbian. Although Monica isn't Serbian (unless Hungarians can be Serbs? Sorry, I have no idea about this), his belief that she was helped fuel his hatred. I've never actually read that anywhere, but I have no reason to doubt Carillo. Make of that what you will.

novemberrain
Jun 3rd, 2003, 10:48 PM
Why does anyone murder another person?

They're nuts. End of story.

hingis-seles
Jun 3rd, 2003, 10:56 PM
Spirit, I can't stand Mary Carillo. I still haven't gotten over her accussing Monica of "milking the stabbing for what it was worth". Stupid bitch!

You're correct though about the nationality being a motive. He said that he wanted to teach her parents a lesson and also that if she played for USA or Israel, he wouldn't have stabbed her.

LOL! What's really funny is that I was being sarcastic in my original post, since I have been told by so many "non-Seles" fans that she wasn't a threat to her chief rival, blah blah blah, that it made me wonder that if she wasn't the best, why was she stabbed?

Spirit, I know how interested you are in the Graf-Seles relationship(as am I). Did you read the quote on Steffi in Monica's Tennis Interview. Nice to see both ladies still get to talk to each other once in a while. :wavey:

Alley
Jun 3rd, 2003, 10:59 PM
How many times has this topic been discussed. It is so old and boring. In terms of Mary C, she is dead right, Monica did milk the stabbing.

Spirit
Jun 3rd, 2003, 11:13 PM
You're correct though about the nationality being a motive. He said that he wanted to teach her parents a lesson and also that if she played for USA or Israel, he wouldn't have stabbed her.

Oh, yeah, I do remember him saying that.

I was being sarcastic in my original post

I actually did not understand that. I saw this just before I was going to post a rebuttal about her non-dominance, etc. etc. Glad I didn't. :)

Spirit, I know how interested you are in the Graf-Seles relationship(as am I). Did you read the quote on Steffi in Monica's Tennis Interview. Nice to see both ladies still get to talk to each other once in a while. :wavey:

I read that interview several times. Yeah, it was pretty fascinating. I think she dodged Peter Bodo's question, but she did it about as smoothly as she could.

Jarrett
Jun 3rd, 2003, 11:15 PM
How many times has this topic been discussed. It is so old and boring. In terms of Mary C, she is dead right, Monica did milk the stabbing.

And how many times do losers like you have to make this comment? This is a DISCUSSION BOARD. What do you expect people to do?

Pureracket
Jun 3rd, 2003, 11:25 PM
I was just beginning to REALLY enjoy tennis, and that was a sad, sad day for me. I was very depressed. The guy was nuts, but I wonder if there were any signs. Maybe that's why I'm so paranoid about the players now.

Another poster posted yesterday, "Another reason for me to hate Serena." Those kinds of comments seem very consistent with maniacal behaviour to me.

CondiLicious
Jun 3rd, 2003, 11:29 PM
How many times has this topic been discussed. It is so old and boring. In terms of Mary C, she is dead right, Monica did milk the stabbing.

*waits patiently for Alley's boyfriend Fortis to show up*

Celeste
Jun 3rd, 2003, 11:45 PM
I have a true story from a tournament I attended a few years ago. This woman was sitting behind me with her daughter, she was maybe 6 or 7 years old (the daughter). The woman was explaining tennis to her daughter the whole time, it was the little girl's first tournament. It was sweet to listen to, plus the woman had a bunch of stuff wrong, but that's not the point.

Anyway, the woman at one point during a change-over asked her daughter if she saw the security guards behind the players, and the girl said yes, and the woman said that about 8 years ago "one of the girls who plays these tournaments" got stabbed when sitting in her chair, so the guards are there. The little girl then ask "why" did the player get stabbed. The woman responded, "I don't know, honey, he was crazy." Then the girl asked again, "but why." The woman said, "I don't know honey, I guess he really liked the woman he stabbed and was mad at her for losing a previous match, or he really wanted the other girl to win that day, I don't know, he was crazy."

Ok, I let that inaccuracy slide. Then, the little girl asked, "What happened to the man who stabbed the player?" The woman responded, "He went to prison forever." I thought about turning around and correcting that gross inaccuracy, but I figured maybe the woman didn't want to admit to a 6 or 7 year old that you can get away with stabbing someone and not do any prison time. I was not going to interfere with the woman's parenting, it was not my place, plus I didn't want to be a bitch either and correct her even if she was just misinformed.

But, the man was crazy, the woman nailed it, even if she got everything else wrong. The thing that really made me sad was the way the woman kept saying "a girl who plays at these tournaments" was stabbed. I guess in the grand scheme Monica is really "a girl who plays at these tournaments." It made Monica sound so helpless.

I truly believe that at least for some time, Gaby got into Steffi's head, but for some equaly bizarre reason, Monica never did. Despite what Monica had done by April of 1993, I always thought Steffi truly believed she was better than Monica and could beat her and went into every match with her thinking she could win and it wasn't even an issue. Hence, a great rivalry!

Parche wanted Steffi back as No. 1. He saw something Steffi apparently didn't.

Lynn
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:07 AM
Alley,

unless you've been stabbed in full view of the world, then you and I and everyone else interested in this subject cannot fathom the horror of being attacked.

We don't all deal with our hurt and anger and fear the same way.

faboozadoo15
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:19 AM
if by "milking the stabbing," she means returning to the game and having way more fans than anyone else... then yes, yes monica did "milk" the stabbing. and also, if you are referring to the co-number1 ranking, if you do recall, other players such as lindsay davenport and and mary pierce have used a similar protected ranking system for MUCH more benign injuries.
until you get stabbed doing what you love to do in front of thousands of people in a foreign land, only to see the perpetrator walk away legally, please don't make such comments.

novemberrain
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:20 AM
Spirit, I can't stand Mary Carillo. I still haven't gotten over her accussing Monica of "milking the stabbing for what it was worth". Stupid bitch!

You're correct though about the nationality being a motive. He said that he wanted to teach her parents a lesson and also that if she played for USA or Israel, he wouldn't have stabbed her.

LOL! What's really funny is that I was being sarcastic in my original post, since I have been told by so many "non-Seles" fans that she wasn't a threat to her chief rival, blah blah blah, that it made me wonder that if she wasn't the best, why was she stabbed?

Spirit, I know how interested you are in the Graf-Seles relationship(as am I). Did you read the quote on Steffi in Monica's Tennis Interview. Nice to see both ladies still get to talk to each other once in a while. :wavey:
I don't understand how you're being sarcastic here...

F-R-E-A-K
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:21 AM
Monica was making her way UP and she was going to pass steffi by far!! All records would have been broken by her.. and that prick was fucking crazy! what a wanka!

CondiLicious
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:22 AM
if by "milking the stabbing," she means returning to the game and having way more fans than anyone else... then yes, yes monica did "milk" the stabbing. and also, if you are referring to the co-number1 ranking, if you do recall, other players such as lindsay davenport and and mary pierce have used a similar protected ranking system for MUCH more benign injuries.
until you get stabbed doing what you love to do in front of thousands of people in a foreign land, only to see the perpetrator walk away legally, please don't make such comments.

Monica didn't milk the stabbing. If anything... the media did... asking her about it all the time. It's not like she's the one who brings it up. And if its her staying away for 2 years... She was depressed and had her dads illness to deal with to.

faboozadoo15
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:22 AM
ppl try to say seles never dominated steffi, but obviously one of her most loyal fans thought that monica was winning so much that he needed to stab her...

Tennis Fool
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:25 AM
Spirit, I can't stand Mary Carillo. I still haven't gotten over her accussing Monica of "milking the stabbing for what it was worth".

When did she say this?

faboozadoo15
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:25 AM
exactly, diva... btw, i wasnt trying to say that she ":milked it at all," bc well thats just ridiculous. she didn't even know if she would be well liked even in her return. she had the co number 1 ranking, but other than that there was no "milking" the situation. if anything... miss graf reaped the benefits of monica's return. it was her way of showing (to herself, psychologically and to many of her fans) that she was once and for all better than monica after her absense. how sad...

darren cahill
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:27 AM
When did she say this?

i cant remember where Mary said it, but she did...i think it may have been during that barbara walters special? it was something like that....but marys now one of the people who kisses monicas ass so i'm sure she'd deny ever saying such a thing...just like Navartilova

Tennis Fool
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:29 AM
i cant remember where Mary said it, but she did...i think it may have been during that barbara walters special? it was something like that....but marys now one of the people who kisses monicas ass so i'm sure she'd deny ever saying such a thing...just like Navartilova

Ok...Navratilova orchestrated Monica's return. When did SHE say that?

faboozadoo15
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:30 AM
what abt navratilova... the wimby 92 thing? or did i miss something?

CondiLicious
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:31 AM
i cant remember where Mary said it, but she did...i think it may have been during that barbara walters special? it was something like that....but marys now one of the people who kisses monicas ass so i'm sure she'd deny ever saying such a thing...just like Navartilova

Well... Martina the Elder got to know Monica and so thats what I choose to see as the reason she started being nice about Monica. Before... Monica had a persona that people didn't like. People got the wrong idea about her. She rubbed people up the wrong way (kinda like Serena haha)

CondiLicious
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:33 AM
what abt navratilova... the wimby 92 thing? or did i miss something?

Probably... but pre-stabbing Martina said a few snide remarks about Monica. Nothing major though. I'm just going from what my uncle told me though cos... Diva was a baby back then :)

darren cahill
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:34 AM
Well... Martina the Elder got to know Monica and so thats what I choose to see as the reason she started being nice about Monica. Before... Monica had a persona that people didn't like. People got the wrong idea about her. She rubbed people up the wrong way (kinda like Serena haha)


you put it nicely....but i always found the way Navartilova acted about monica kinda phony or hypocritical...she wasnt the nicest person towards monica and then BAM! all the sudden life partners...i'd be less suspcious if she was honest about it and said "yeah i was a bitch towards her but then i felt sorry for her"

i always thought it was more like "i'm not on the tour anymore and cant be whipped by her anymore so i'll support her NOW" :rolleyes:

Tennis Fool
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:37 AM
I don't know Diva...tennis players seem to be flaky in terms of friendships...whatever way the winds blow...

I mean Monica is *good friends* with Martina Hingis, a girl who double-bageled her.

Steffi hated Agassi, now she's pushing out his 2nd baby.

Albert Costa supposedly is good friends with Nico, a player he complained was faking cramps in their duel a few days ago.

I've even read of Monica snarking on Kournikova, then defending her in the press.

CondiLicious
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:38 AM
you put it nicely....but i always found the way Navartilova acted about monica kinda phony or hypocritical...she wasnt the nicest person towards monica and then BAM! all the sudden life partners...i'd be less suspcious if she was honest about it and said "yeah i was a bitch towards her but then i felt sorry for her"

i always thought it was more like "i'm not on the tour anymore and cant be whipped by her anymore so i'll support her NOW" :rolleyes:

Martina says what she thinks at the time. But... I always think she is quick to say when she's wrong. And we don't know that she didn't say all that to Monica "yeah... I think I got you wrong" or something... when they met in private like we know they did.

darren cahill
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:39 AM
and by the way...dont take too much to heart anything Mary Carrillo has to say...this is the same bozo who today prior to the serena/amelie match said that this match had the makings of a classic! based on what? a match 2 weeks ago? big whoop...and then...get this...says Coria would be lucky to win games, let alone a set against Agassi...

hope andre and steffi got nice seats in first class.

i give mary credit though for eating her words later...she admitted half way through that she was wrong...McEnroe would have never done that

CondiLicious
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:40 AM
I don't know Diva...tennis players seem to be flaky in terms of friendships...whatever way the winds blow...

hehe I like Martina a lot and love Monica so I choose to think the best!

Tennis Fool
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:41 AM
you put it nicely....but i always found the way Navartilova acted about monica kinda phony or hypocritical...she wasnt the nicest person towards monica and then BAM! all the sudden life partners...i'd be less suspcious if she was honest about it and said "yeah i was a bitch towards her but then i felt sorry for her"

i always thought it was more like "i'm not on the tour anymore and cant be whipped by her anymore so i'll support her NOW" :rolleyes:


Yeah, she's another one: Saying Serena faked injury to skip Wimby one year, and now is her sometimes doubles partner!

darren cahill
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:44 AM
Yeah, she's another one: Saying Serena faked injury to skip Wimby one year, and now is her sometimes doubles partner!


EXACTLY....Navratilova wasnt always the biggest Steffi supporter either until steffi asked her to play doubles at wimbledon and then martina was all over steffi like i want to be all over Patrick Rafter naked.

then of course Steffi bailed on her and martina went back to her bashing...she was pretty brutal about steffis knee injury...i wonder how martina felt after steffi had total knee reconstruction done...i wonder if she said "gee, i guess it was real after all"

CondiLicious
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:44 AM
Maybe players like to forgive and forget? :)

CondiLicious
Jun 4th, 2003, 01:47 AM
Do you think in 10 years time we'll be talking about Serena/Kim/Venus/Justine like this?

I just think the Steffi/Monica/Gaby/Martina era was the best. For gossip hehe

faboozadoo15
Jun 4th, 2003, 02:15 AM
i really don't believe that monica and martina were ever friends, period. we only have their awesome doubles and what they "say" to go buy. martina was always trying to cut monica down in interviews, something even the williams sisters (who many think don't show enough respect) never did despite having no connection to monica. i was always a fan of both of them, but i never thought they seemed to be freinds... ESPECIALLY after the double bagel which was followed up by no sympathy for injured monica...

Philbo
Jun 4th, 2003, 02:17 AM
Funny how Monica cosiders Martina one of her closest friends on the tour and long time idols etc, yet the 'experts' in this thread have decided that Martina's friendship was hollow and hypocritical!!!

I think Monica is a more reliable source of info.

Tennis Fool
Jun 4th, 2003, 02:17 AM
Talking about flakiness. LOL at this article published in ESPN a couple of years ago. Courtesy of Pam of course...Can you spot the passive-agressive statement? (Hint: its in bold).

Memories of Martina

By Pam Shriver
Special to ESPN.com

Editor's Note: Martina Navratilova and ESPN tennis analyst Pam Shriver teamed to win a record-tying 20 Grand Slam doubles titles, including five Wimbledon championships, from 1980 to 1989.

I have seen and spoken to Martina Navratilova a few times this year and knew as early as January that she was thinking of returning to the tour as a doubles player. It's great to see her back on the court.

Of the current singles players on tour, no one's game compares to Martina's. Although Venus and Serena Willams are similar to Martina in terms of their power and movement at net, they don't seem to have the natural instinct to play the net as Martina did.

Martina won hundreds of singles and doubles titles during her career before retiring in 1994. And although she is best known for her singles play, it seemed there were fewer weaknesses in her doubles game.

As a singles player, Martina's strategy was to serve and volley and get to the net. In doubles, where you must get to the net to survive, it was more of the same, which is why she and I thrived as a doubles team for 10 years. We were natural serve-and-volley players.

But there was much more to Martina's doubles game, and everything she did made her an awesome doubles player. Her reach, court coverage and power made her intimidating. And she was always working toward getting to the net. Even when we were returning serve, she was always trying to get the edge over the opponent.

When Martina got to the net, she covered more court than anyone. And most important, she was comfortable at net. When a player is comfortable, she will move better. Martina also was difficult to hit over or around, and I never had to worry about the middle of the court because I knew she had it covered.

From the beginning, Martina was a gifted athlete who worked herself into great condition. But even when she was a little bit heavy, she covered the court better than an average player, past or present. Her feet and hands were extremely quick. And while I had slow feet and quick hands, both of us had excellent reflexes, so we worked well together.

Her serve was pretty good, but in doubles she took a little bit of pace off it. Being left-handed was a bit tricky and unusual for our opponents, who had to adjust to her lefty serve. Her left-handed forehand, going back to the ad side of the court, was the dominant shot from the back of the court on our team.

Martina also hit consistent, intelligent returns that were low, which is good for doubles. She could hit down the alley or go crosscourt. Martina also had enough power to hit winners down the middle when she got stuck back near the baseline. She would take a high forehand volley and hit the ball so hard that I remember some opponents turned away and screamed, intimidated by her display of power.

Martina's doubles vision
Some players focus on singles competition and tend to not put as much heart or effort into doubles play, but Martina was intense whether playing singles or doubles.

Martina enjoyed playing doubles and winning the doubles titles, and appreciated the practice that doubles competition gave her for singles. But in the 10 years we played together, we probably practiced four times.

Still, her intensity during the match was incredible. And only once, after a long, tough singles final at the Australian Open, was she a bit off for the doubles final.

Martina and I became a doubles team in October 1980. She called me on the phone while I was in Florida playing a tournament. It didn't take me long to say yes. After managing just three wins in 40 singles matches against her, it was nice being on the same side of the court in doubles.

We lost in the finals of our first tournament. But by the time we played our first major together, we had really gelled as a doubles team. In 1981, we won Wimbledon, beating the defending champions, Kathy Jordan and Anne Smith, in the final.

For me, that was our most memorable victory together because it was my first Grand Slam title. Martina had already won several major singles and doubles titles, including five at Wimbledon. But at that point, I felt we were set as a team and had the chemistry to continue winning tournaments for quite a while.

By 1983, our third year together, we were on a roll. That's when we began our record 109-match win streak, which spanned from April 1983 to July 1985 and included eight Grand Slam doubles victories.

No other doubles team has ever come close to that number, but it was a combination of skill -- as well as good fortune -- that made it possible. Even when you are good, like Martina and I were, you need to have things go your way to keep winning for two years. We dug out every close match, never let down our guards and never got injured. There was always the possibility that one of us would turn an ankle, but that never happened. Plus, we were better than any other doubles team.

And even after the streak ended in 1985 at Wimbledon, when we lost to Jordan and Elizabeth Smylie even though we had been up a break in the third set, we regrouped to win more than 40 consecutive matches.

Our doubles victory at the 1989 Australian Open tied Margaret Osborne duPont and Louise Brough for the most Grand Slam doubles titles with 20. I think we should have gone for more, but Martina dropped me as her partner after we lost at Wimbledon in 1989.

At the U.S. Open that year, Mary Joe Fernandez and I formed a doubles partnership at the last minute and got all the way to the finals, where we lost to Martina and Mandlikova in three sets. The doubles breakup strained our relationship for a few months, but we got over it. It's easy to forgive someone who helped you to 20 Grand Slam titles.

Of my career highlights, winning the 1988 Olympic doubles gold medal with Zina Garrison in Seoul was big. Others were beating Martina in 1978 to reach the U.S. Open singles final, and beating Steffi Graf at Madison Square Garden in 1988, the year she won the Grand Slam and the Olympic gold medal in singles. But I will always be best known for the doubles championships with Martina.

Tennis Fool
Jun 4th, 2003, 02:20 AM
Do you think in 10 years time we'll be talking about Serena/Kim/Venus/Justine like this?



Serena and Venus. Yes.

Kim and Justine? Depends on this FO and what other Slam victories are possible.

CondiLicious
Jun 4th, 2003, 02:22 AM
Funny how Monica cosiders Martina one of her closest friends on the tour and long time idols etc, yet the 'experts' in this thread have decided that Martina's friendship was hollow and hypocritical!!!

I think Monica is a more reliable source of info.

I agree with you... I think they are real friends :) And even if they aren't "real" friends... Martina did help in Monica's recovery... in terms of support so that's great.

Monica and Martina :hearts:

CondiLicious
Jun 4th, 2003, 02:29 AM
i really don't believe that monica and martina were ever friends, period. we only have their awesome doubles and what they "say" to go buy. martina was always trying to cut monica down in interviews, something even the williams sisters (who many think don't show enough respect) never did despite having no connection to monica. i was always a fan of both of them, but i never thought they seemed to be freinds... ESPECIALLY after the double bagel which was followed up by no sympathy for injured monica...

hehe Hingis??? Cos we've got two Martina's being discussed here and Nav fans might think...

Mase
Jun 4th, 2003, 02:36 AM
How many times has this topic been discussed. It is so old and boring. In terms of Mary C, she is dead right, Monica did milk the stabbing.

Ok I know this hs been replied to MULTIPLE times but ALLY, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????????? :fiery:

faboozadoo15
Jun 4th, 2003, 02:38 AM
yea, mine was abt hingis... they claimed to be real good friends too.
sorry for confusion...

Alley
Jun 4th, 2003, 02:41 AM
I'm sorry but Monica completely milked the stabbing by staying out for two and a half years after being shocked that the tour actually went on without her. Monica played the sympathy card as much as she could and then after all that ended up coming back looking like Mariaan De Swardt.

In respect to Martina Navratilova all I can say is she was a bitch is a bitch and always will be a bitch. :)

disposablehero
Jun 4th, 2003, 02:48 AM
I have often wondered why Monica Seles was stabbed. Really. I mean, she wasn't a particulalry dominant champion. Look at her head-to-head against her main rival, Steffi Graf. It's not like she was dominating or anything. I don't buy that she was stabbed so that her rival could return to #1. After all, that rival had more Slam titles than her, more weeks at #1 and a winning head-to-head. So, what I don't get is that when Monica was clearly not at the same level as her chief rival, why was she stabbed?

What Steffi did from 1987 to 1989 was irrelevant to 1993. In 1993, she was second best, and by a large margin, not a small one. Sure the head to head was close, so is Maleeva-Williams. The question is, if they were both entered in the same tournament, who was going to win? From 1990 to 1993, when both were entered in the same tournament, Monica won the event 12 times, Steffi 3 times, and someone else 3 times.

Why was Monica stabbed? Because that was the only practical way of beating her.

faboozadoo15
Jun 4th, 2003, 02:50 AM
hmm, and you think there were no psychological effects from this stabbing? don't you think she had questions as to whether she would return at all? coming to the realization that she wanted to play, healing physically, and getting over her fear of the tennis court took time... don't be foolish...

Lynn
Jun 4th, 2003, 03:02 AM
I don't know what kind of a relationship Martina N and Monica have now but I know Martina went to Sarasota to try to be a friend during that time:

http://www.life.com/Life/1995/heroes05.html

F-R-E-A-K
Jun 4th, 2003, 04:20 AM
A teenage girl is stabbed in the back in a sporting arena, and the physical scars turn out to be the least of her problems. Two years go by, and Monica Seles remains on the sidelines. Then, this summer, she finally masters her demons--and, at the U.S. Open, all opponents but one. Through the tough times, Martina Navratilova quietly serves as her friend's big sister--defending her, encouraging her. "She would say, 'If you love tennis, you'll come back,'" says Seles. "Then she came to visit." Says Navratilova: "We had fun on the court. She needed to feel that again." Navratilova, too, showed strength in the spotlight. As an openly gay athlete--a rarity in this era of big-money endorsements--she became the spokesperson for the Rainbow Card Foundation, which hopes to raise $20 million in five years to fund various causes, including AIDS research

irma
Jun 4th, 2003, 04:50 AM
the man hated her for three years. I don't understand why he blamed monica for everything(he even blamed her for steffi's injuries) but sick people can't think clear of course

maybe steffi getting a steady and this time not denying bf in the 6 months before was the last step (the man was in love with steffi and he blamed monica for anything so maybe he blamed her for this too)

hingis-seles
Jun 4th, 2003, 08:47 AM
ppl try to say seles never dominated steffi, but obviously one of her most loyal fans thought that monica was winning so much that he needed to stab her...

Thank You! :worship:

This is exactly the point I was trying to make in my original post. Since clearly, "some" fans on this board are always saying that Monica wasn't the best before the attack. Since, Monica wasn't the best before she was attacked, in their minds, it made me wonder why they thought she had been stabbed.

irma
Jun 4th, 2003, 09:09 AM
I don't think he was one of her most loyal fans

let's see it's 30 april 93

was steffi at her worst during the whole period 90-93? (I mean in spring 91 she was at a much worse state)
was she without a title since months? nope
did she lose a match that day? nope

so why would monica at that point have mattered to a loyal steffi fan like me;)(j/k)

not that it would have been more justified at any other time of course, but I just want to point out that 30 april was a good day for a loyal steffi fan and for sure not a day to get in anger on a rival who was not even the next opponent.(not that novotna should have been hurt of course)

I doubt he even knew steffi won her match 6:1 6:3 that day :o

so nothing loyal, he was just sick :o

irma
Jun 4th, 2003, 09:17 AM
if steffi had retired somewhere before or never played then he probably become a huber or sabatini (since she was popular in germany) and named them as the reason!

David Brent
Jun 4th, 2003, 09:21 AM
I agree with Alley!

Scorch
Jun 4th, 2003, 11:00 AM
the a$$hole tally in this thread just increased by 1!

DA FOREHAND
Jun 4th, 2003, 02:38 PM
"ppl try to say seles never dominated steffi, but obviously one of her most loyal fans thought that monica was winning so much that he needed to stab her..."


LOL In one breath you say he's crazy, and in the next you're taking his reasoning as gospel. ROFLMAO


Im a huge GRAF fan, and feel the nut job cost all tennis fans a chance to watch a great rivalry unfold.

I know almost all of the Selestials would like to think that Monica would have won everything in site had it not been for the stabbing....WHATEVER.

What we do know is STEFFI has the heart of a Lion, and would never have just rolled over, or allowed herself to be dominated, as evidenced by her coming back from injury to beat the entire top ten of the "new era" of players, and win the French Open over the world's number one.

miranda_lou
Jun 4th, 2003, 02:56 PM
Steffi hated Agassi, now she's pushing out his 2nd baby.

Where did you get this information. :confused: From the media. :rolleyes: Steffi never hated Agassi. She has said that she didn't like his long hair and the way he dressed. That's not hating someone. :rolleyes: It's a fact that Steffi is one of the people who gave encouragement to Agassi during his comeback.

Anyway, some people never seem to get enough of these Monica v. Steffi threads. They are fun to read though since the same people post the same things all the time. You can almost guess who will say what. It's amazing. :o

I hope Monica gets better and she ends her tennis career on her terms. :worship:

irma
Jun 4th, 2003, 03:02 PM
Where did you get this information. :confused: From the media. :rolleyes: Steffi never hated Agassi. She has said that she didn't like his long hair and the way he dressed. That's not hating someone. :rolleyes: It's a fact that Steffi is one of the people who gave encouragement to Agassi during his comeback.

Anyway, some people never seem to get enough of these Monica v. Steffi threads. They are fun to read though since the same people post the same things all the time. You can almost guess who will say what. It's amazing. :o

I hope Monica gets better and she ends her tennis career on her terms. :worship:

we are boring or not? :devil:

Lynn
Jun 4th, 2003, 07:34 PM
It's moot as to whom would have been the best. The arguing will never end.

And, yes, Da Forehand, everyone who read the CNNSI Monica board knew how much you adored Graf.

I'd like to just consider them both great and Hall of Famers.

DA FOREHAND
Jun 4th, 2003, 07:48 PM
That is without a doubt. Still would have been nice to have seen that rivalry unfold.

Lynn
Jun 4th, 2003, 08:03 PM
I agree.

I enjoyed watching the Martina-Chris rivalry--Monica and Steffi would have been as good.

R&J
Jun 5th, 2003, 02:59 AM
I have often wondered why Monica Seles was stabbed. Really. I mean, she wasn't a particulalry dominant champion. Look at her head-to-head against her main rival, Steffi Graf. It's not like she was dominating or anything. I don't buy that she was stabbed so that her rival could return to #1. After all, that rival had more Slam titles than her, more weeks at #1 and a winning head-to-head. So, what I don't get is that when Monica was clearly not at the same level as her chief rival, why was she stabbed?
You have got to be kidding!!! Why was she stabbed? Its a fact - the man who did it, said it himself - Monica started winning "most" of the slams between 90 - 93. She took over the #1 ranking and held on to it "almost" consistently after the 91 US Open, all the way up to 93 Hamburg.
Are you not aware of her record? Of course you are.

"she wasn't a particulalry dominant champion."
What do you consider dominant? Yes, she didnt go undefeated a whole year: But from the moment she won the 90 French, she went on to win 8 slams in 3 years!!

90 French - winner
90 Wimby - didn't win
90 US Open - didn't win
91 Aussie - winner
91 French - winner
91 US Open - winner
92 Aussie - winner
92 French - winner
92 Wimby - lost in Final
92 US Open - winner
93 Aussie -winner

OMG - You have got to be kidding.

Do you not see that? winner - winner -winner - winner -winner - 5 Grand Slams in a row - lost in final - winner - winner

No one - won as fast as Monica did so quick - ever! Not even to this day has someone won as many - as fast (not yet that is).

You must have started this thread just to get a reaction - very good.

"I don't buy that she was stabbed so that her rival could return to #1."

Then why? He did it cause he always wanted to stab someone - random stabbing?:rolleyes:

faboozadoo15
Jun 5th, 2003, 03:13 AM
R&J- this thread was started because of exactly all the things you pointed out. plus, many graf fans say monica never dominated, yet a fan of hers stabbed her because she was winning too much.

DA FOREHAND- if you look at my post AND by the portion of it that you yourself QUOTED, you will see that i never called the man "crazy." i actually think he accepted reality more than some of the whacked out graf fans that we have on this board who "block out" those years that monica was winning nearly everything. he was crazy, however, he knew steffi was FAR from being the #1 player in the world again.

R&J
Jun 5th, 2003, 03:16 AM
Thank You! :worship:

This is exactly the point I was trying to make in my original post. Since clearly, "some" fans on this board are always saying that Monica wasn't the best before the attack. Since, Monica wasn't the best before she was attacked, in their minds, it made me wonder why they thought she had been stabbed.
Then it was the way that you choose to word it - people saw it (and I as well), that you are saying "why did she get stabbed? she wasn't a particulalry dominant champion. Look at her head-to-head against her main rival, Steffi Graf. It's not like she was dominating or anything."

Bottom line - Monica was taking over/ he was nuts and couldnt stand to see Monica take all the Grand Slams and the #1 ranking away from Graf.

Philbo
Jun 5th, 2003, 04:19 AM
Alley whom Ive never met, is a bitch, has always been a bitch, and always will be a bitch...

samsam4087
May 10th, 2012, 02:13 PM
The question is, if Monica was not stabbed, how many grand slam titles would she get?

LeRoy.
May 10th, 2012, 02:27 PM
If Monica had not been stabbed Steffi, Monica, Martina and Chris would all have about the same # of GSs. :shrug:

samsam4087
May 10th, 2012, 02:28 PM
If Monica had not been stabbed Steffi, Monica, Martina and Chris would all have about the same # of GSs. :shrug:

Yes, well said.

:worship::worship::worship:

Doully
May 10th, 2012, 04:16 PM
Yes, well said.

:worship::worship::worship:

Is that all you ever say?